Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
Now I wonder, why this change was made?.
We will always do less damage than a CW or HR (or at least the 98% of us), so this is a lose in our Threath generation, since we are a melee class we will always be face to face, if it was there and the situation was bad I don't see why it's going to be removed... actually, if you make it more weighted to the distance it would help more to make the foes stick with us.
Block:
Where do I begin. I didn't dislike the previous block - I felt it was drained too quickly, but otherwise I liked it. The current block though drains just as rapidly as the old block, and it drains even when I'm not being hit. I feel like the stamina system could work, but it needs to have the stamina meter greatly increased in duration.
Just from my testing, I'd say the stamina meter needs to be at least doubled in duration. A 10-20% increase to stamina regen improvement would not hurt also, to get the shield up and around faster. I also would like to see the shield interrupt whatever I'm doing when I hit my shift key.
I agree entirely. I think if it had the following changes:
1) Only depleted while in combat
2) DOUBLE the base duration
3) Id say even a 50% recharge speed increase (cyrptic style) which really just means it takes 1/3rd less time to fully recharge.
4) FULLY recharged when LEAVING combat - again basically same as #1.
I agree entirely. I think if it had the following changes:
1) Only depleted while in combat
2) DOUBLE the base duration
3) Id say even a 50% recharge speed increase (cyrptic style) which really just means it takes 1/3rd less time to fully recharge.
4) FULLY recharged when LEAVING combat - again basically same as #1.
I agree with both of these as well. I would also like the 100% Dr put back because we are still getting slammed with damage while we are supposed to be able to be blocking everything, and with our new enforced threat trying to block 20 baddies while you move will still get you killed the way things are right now.
Damage is a major issue and probably the biggest one for GF's right now.
I know a lot of people do not agree with that, however by saying this you are saying you do not believe a GF should be able to kill any other class in PvP... because, in general, all things equal, they cannot.
I have several videos of short 1v1's on test that I am trying to get approved to post up here so that some of the PvE crowd, and the Developers can see how horribly gimped GF is in PvP.
On a side note, our survivability is also terrible, we have no means of regenerating any HP which would be what is necessary to stay alive in pvp and play that "Tank" roll people are talking about. Our shield would be a mechanic to prevent burst damage, and also provide a method of protection while we regen.
BOTH of these options should be available to GF's as they are in nearly every other class. A tanky build, and a DPS build. Our Tanky build would be a little Tankier than other classes, and our "DPS" build should do a little less simply due to the nature of how a "Guardian" class is perceived by the masses.
I think stat reallocation is a realistic way to begin to achieve this, however I'm not sure who's method would be more effective (Ayroux's or Colonel's) and either would have to be monitored VERY closely as this could potentially make GF's way too powerful.
Either way if you look at how positively the constitution buff has been received (without even coming CLOSE to being Overpowered) I think it is clear that this is something that should be very seriously considered by the Development team.
While I have not had a chance to get onto preview as it seems to crash every time I try to log in...just from what I read has me somewhat optimistic that at least the dev staff is looking at the ton of issues currently facing the GF class. Now what develops on preview and goes live has yet to be seen.
Another way that may not have been thought about but has been tried in other mmo's to some success regarding our current and horrible stat allocation (really how much defense does the dev staff really think we need especially with DR?) might be what's termed as over-capping. So once we hit soft/hard caps of say defense (I know as a GF that's darn near impossible right...) it would start converting to another stat say deflect/armor pen/crit/etc. Since there has been no word yet on if our gear sets will get a makeover as well might be an option though not sure how well it could work out in this game.
I ran a CN with 3 other guildies. The party composition was 1 GF (me), 2 CW, 1 DC. Here are some of my feedbacks
Feedback: General All buffs / nerfs aside, I don't see any change to the basic game mechanics at all. Stacking CWs and GWFs is still the way to go, and GF is still relatively useless, some would even argue more useless than before. Suggestion Re-define the roles. Make defender / healer / controller / striker distinctly different from each other. No character should be able to do both (CW should control OR DPS, not both, GWF should tank OR DPS, not both, etc). Also implement control effects diminishing return. This will take away the desire to stack multiple CWs for the control effects. As long as multiples CWs combined can lock down adds, there won't be a place for GF in PvE dungeons.
Feedback: Block 1. Guard meter depletes much too quickly, and re-charges too slowly.
2. Iron Warrior doesn't help much in terms of restoring guard.
3. Guard feels much more useless now. You don't want to raise your shield unnecessarily against small mobs due to the fact that guard depletes the moment shield is raised. But against bigger damaging mobs it doesn't help much in terms of staying alive, because you still take damage. This is especially painful when there are tons of high-damage adds. For example, while doing Beholder HE, an AoE attack drains 50% of my HP with shield up (that's 21K damage).
4. Some control effects still penetrates shield. And when blocking AoE attacks, one still needs to face shield towards the center of the circle in order to avoid control effects. Suggestion 1. Shield should absorbs 100% of damage. Any other class's shiftability allows them to avoid damage, why shouldn't GF's?
2. While shielded, GF should be immune to any control effects, regardless whether shield is facing the center of a red circle or not.
3. Shield meter should start depleting "only" after the first hit takes place.
4. Make a percentage of life steal goes to guard meter when shield is up.
5. Make Protector path's capstone change guard from frontal cone to 180 degree frontal block.
6. Make Tactician path's capstone change how guard meter is recharged. When shield is down, percentage of damage taken is applied to guard recharging.
7. Allow certain encounters to be activated while guarding, for example Villain's Menace, Enforced Threat, and Iron Warrior.
Suggestion: Con Stats Having more HP based on CON is great, but the effect is too small. I have probably 5K more HP on the preview shard. That's too little to make any difference. It needs to be a 30% to 50% difference.
Bug: Anvil of Doom Anvil of Doom damage registers about 1 second AFTER the animation hits. This is also on the live shard. It's especially obvious when Anvil's Doom is chained after another encounter.
* Added *
Overall, the changes so far felt like a nerf to GF. Much squishier due to shield gimped, life steal doesn't help much because damage still low. The gap between GF and GWF / CW feels even larger.
as external reading the new shield issues... one smart solution maybe is combine both new and old shield mechanism.. give a initial 100% block based on stamina (the stamina timer depletion (and the stamina refill timer of about 15 seconds) start at the first hit), as stamina is depleted (in 4-5 seconds) start work the old guard meter shield mechanism, but with the difference that damage taken is proportional to guard meter depletion... at 100% guard u take 0 dmg... at 90% guard meters u take 10% dmg, at 80% shield meter take 20% dmg and so.
This method is good in PvP for avoid the initial burst damage of many classes and sustain for example for some time the low dmg of TR permas on contest nodes.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
Ok after testing it for a few hours, here is what i think about changes:
Block: while i love the new movement speed while blocking, the duration of the block itself is way too short, also damage go trough block sometimes (bug i gues) There is no sound of blocking and there is no inpact animation like before. Suggestion: fix bug and double the base duration of block meter.
Health points and CON: Awsome!
Threat rush: GWF reasonably nerfed now and this gap closer should be as it is in my opinion. Any further nerf on GF is realy bad.
Frontline surge: Leave it as it is again GWF is fine with new unstopable changes and FS should not be changed. It will gimp GF alot in pvp.
Enforced threat: Awsome!
Threat changes: Awsome!
More suggestions: Armor pen on CON or STR instead of DEX. Remake of protector cap stone (make it very tanky: more life, more deflect, better blocking). Into the fray should be able to be activated while blocking and runing, same thing for iron warrior.
Ok the sum of it is GF in not better with these changes, he needs alot more :S
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
as external reading the new shield issues... one smart solution maybe is combine both new and old shield mechanism.. give a initial 100% block based on stamina (the stamina timer depletion (and the stamina refill timer of about 15 seconds) start at the first hit), as stamina is depleted (in 4-5 seconds) start work the old guard meter shield mechanism, but with the difference that damage taken is proportional to guard meter depletion... at 100% guard u take 0 dmg... at 90% guard meters u take 10% dmg, at 80% shield meter take 20% dmg and so.
This method is good in PvP for avoid the initial burst damage of many classes and the sustain for example for some time the low dmg of TR permas on contest nodes.
No. At that point, that wouldnt be any better than either. Especially when we get ahold of a group even a small group at that. That would be broken and we'd end up taking more damage than the old gaurd meter or the new. Even in pvp that wouldnt help much either.
Ok after testing it for a few hours, here is what i think about changes:
Block: while i love the new movement speed while blocking, the duration of the block itself is way too short, also damage go trough block sometimes (bug i gues) There is no sound of blocking and there is no inpact animation like before. Suggestion: fix bug and double the base duration of block meter.
Read the change note, guard only absorbs 80% of the damage on the preview shard now.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
Don't know if it was already suggested. But what if GF could regenerate stamina faster when hit with his guard down? Maybe as a feat in protector?
Like one big hit of shocking execution and his stamina is full.
Feedback: Block duration To iterate it: it is certainly too short, Shield Slam and other powers to recover it do not seem to have any visible impact on Block recovery. Overall, I like the idea of time-based Block. Maybe the depletion should be even slower if noone is attacking the Guardian Fighter and Combat makes it deplete more rapidly; but the respective powers should have more impact on Block recovery.
Feedback: small status indicator If one enables the game to show the HP and Block indicator above the head of the toon, the Block indicator is not synchronous with the big Block indicator on the left of the toon; the small one above the head is misleading and does not represent the actual remaining Block duration. (It seems to function like the old system did, that is: it indicates the remaining Block like it usually did.)
Feedback: tooltip of PvP armour and Pseudodragon and Sharandar boon All of these state that they regenerate Block and not Stamina.
Feedback: Overall defence Please consider, to enhance Deflection and other defensive means of the Guardian Fighter, as with this more Threat a single mistake with Block could mean the death of the Guardian Fighter in its current state: there are Control powers out there and it is not always able to block due to a Prone chain or other incapacities in PvE as well in PvP. In PvP the Guardian Fighter is sometimes only able to kill a target thanks to its bigger survivability and thus it should have a remarkable better survivability as this (great survivability) should be the paragon aspect of a tanking class -- as such you present the Guardian Fighter apparently, so it would be good to give it the tools for this role.
Feedback: Artefact swapping It was not possible for me to swap an Artefact by right-clicking it and choosing the new Artefact out of the menu; I had to place the Artefact out of the Inventory directly into the respective slot.
Feedback: Regeneration
There are some situations which could prevent Regeneration from regenerating your HP, but I was not able to discern which exactly: I encountered one in PvP with an ice Wizard. (They are so cool now xD).
Feedback: Threatening Rush Seems to be ok, maybe with 1 or 2 seconds less cooldown. After all, the Guardian Fighter should be able to reach its target before it dies; as Swordmaster I do no longer have this At-Will anyway.
i have 1 question about GF. what about fixing also calculating of stats ? cuz its funny that i have more power than attack/healing sad to say but someone who done that dont have brain or dont know how is working calculator
Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge It still sends players prone instead of stunning them.
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brynicstormbornMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 41
edited June 2014
Been reading some more of the suggestions here and running around on preview testing out various builds (yay for free respec tokens!)
I'd gladly give up the movement speed change to see guard returned to 100% DR. I'm not using block to run away, I'm using it to absorb a hit -- or several -- and return to swinging.
I'd also like to throw in my vote for a couple of tonyswu's suggestions. I'd love to see the protector capstone get an increase to guard area, and I'd love to see the tactician capstone get an increase (in some way) to guard regeneration. This would help make them more appealing in comparison to the otherwise ubiquitous conqueror spec. I think the other feats in the tactician and protector lines need to be reworked/reordered. It seems like all the good feats from those paths are available pretty early on anyway, so conquerors don't get a lot of incentive to dip down the tree.
- B
Guard to a GF is not what is Sprint to a GWF. Guard to a GF is what is Unstoppable to a GWF. So why is the GF's class defining mechanic behaving as my GWF's movement ability ?
Even the devs seem unable to comprehend that the current GF Tab needs to go to Shift ( as Mark is simply useless ) and the current Shift needs to go to Tab. That would put block in its right place and you then perhaps you will take a serious look at making it as good as others classes's Tab ability. I was just on Preview and spent some time in the Pass. There are no Trolls there but I felt trolled and hard too. Here is my feedback in RED:
Guard breaks faster then on Live !
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
After some PvP in Preview server I've come to this conclusion:
Broken Block Feature: This new stamina guard doesn't work in a realistic PvP situation. In old system enemy had to attack to break the guard and you had a chance to catch enemy off guard when he was using his basic attacks to take down your shield.
Now just waiting will make it break, no attacking needed. As a guardian Fighter you don't have any options you either 1)Lower the guard so it doesn't run out and get attacked or 2)Hold the guard up but enemy won't attack anyway, they will just wait until guard runs out in a couple of seconds. In none of those options you protect yourself from enemy attacks or gain any kind of advantage. Also there is no way of holding the shield up right before enemy hits you because shield is way too slow.
Feedback: Obviously this guard change wasn't really thought trough. And this is exactly why the testing is for. To find this kind of fatal mistakes before it goes out to live. I'd suggest keeping the old system. Just the 0.40 wait time buff would be enough to make it decent, or even the old guard would be better than the terrible mess we have in Preview at the moment. Because unlike NPCs people don't attack a GF with his shield up
To put in other words, on Live GFs have one arm tied behind the back, on Preview we have both arms tied behind our backs. Awesome job devs. To think you actually made these changes speaks volumes about you understanding of the class you created in the first place. None of you play a GF ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I guess I copied my character at previous preview without noticing.
After deleting it, I did the copy again and I have my stuff and my boons (T2 bonus 4 is awesome).
So, I tested again and came to the conclusion that stuff is really important and takes a great part in the way you play.
I have more power, more HP but less defense. What I could not do yesterday is possible today.
I went to Dwarven Valley by the way, Icewind Dale HE seem to be bugged. I soloed some minor ones just fine finally.
Guard I am still not fond of the timed guard, even with a longer duration.
I could understand if you have a way of predicting hits. In PvE, it is quite possible but not in PvP. This system forces you to keep your guard down as much as possible to only block big hits. There is no counterpart of playing with such a timing, it is even worse because you also take 20% of the damage.
Inconsistencies. I put my guard up and guard meter stays the same. I do it another time and guard meter goes down.
If I use Enforced Threat and put my guard up, guard meter goes down even if nobody hit me. I think when your character takes a combat stance, guard meter is used.
Animations Animation powers are too long. With the preview guard system, it is an invitation to be hit and even if mobs do not hit you during it, you take damage afterwards behind your shield or when trying to avoid melee contact.
My GF is equipt in mainly blues that are easily obtained when turning level 60. The exception is my sword and board are purps, as they are cheap and effective. I spent under 20k AD on upgrading. As this is a freshly minted level 60, I spent time in the Dread Ring testing the Conqueror and Protector Feats.
Baseline Abilities Feedback
So you want the GF to be a proper tank... manage the battle thru the use of threat and damage mitigation. While the damage mitigation piece can be understood via parsing, the way threat works is a black box. If we are to manage threat, we really need to have a better handle on how the mechanic works. Can we shed some light on it?
Feedback Threat Mechanics
My understanding is that whoever has the most threat is at the top of a monsters threat meter, with the exception being Fighter abilities that temporarily artificially put them at the top of the threat list. Sounds simple enough. But there are lots of nuances that need answers to understand it properly.
We know that threat is damage/healing multiplied by a threat modifier. What we don’t know is…do you use the raw damage to determine threat or is it modified damage? That is important because if it is modified damage (raw damage minus the monster’s damage reduction), the tank needs to stack Armor Penetration to be most effective. Can we get an answer for this?
Also, how do control effects affect threat? For instance, an attack that does straight damage has straightforward threat. But does an attack that slows/prones/stuns a target have added threat?
Enforced Threat puts you at the top of the threat list for the duration of the ability. If you do not create enough threat during the ability’s time limit, do the monster’s go back to whoever tops their threat list?
What does it take to move from the number one spot on the threat list. Other games I have played required someone to do 20% (or some significant amount) more threat in order to take the aggro and be on the top of the threat list. Is this the case in Neverwinter, or is it just a straight number and whoever is top number is aggro’ed?
Also, how does threat decay work? Does a GF’s threat decay at a slower rate than other class’s threat? Is decay straight line or is it a curve that starts slow and then rapidly increases, such that more recent threat is weighted more than threat created 6 seconds prior?
Marks are still confusing because you have two types of marks. All marks put you at the top of the monster’s threat list. Effectively making them attack you.
Temporary marks are applied thru the use of all abilities except the tab key. Temporary marks last a short amount of time, or until the monster hits the fighter. Whichever is shorter.
Tabbed Marks are more persistent and last for as long as the GF is engaged with the monster as primary target. Multiple targets can be Tab Marked even while striking you, theoretically, for as long as you keep your block up.
I only have anecdotal evidence of this. Am I correct in my understanding of the mechanics of the two types of marks?
Block Feedback
There is a hard capped Damage Resistance of 80% (I refer to it as equipment, but it includes equipment, buffs, feats, etc). It was explained that Block is another 80% multiplicative of this. So the total Damage Mitigation with Block would be 96% if you hit your DR hard cap of 80%. But…Block seems to merely increases your current Damage Resistance to the hard cap of 80%. From my own testing, when blocking attacks in Dread Ring, I was still getting hit for over 1k damage. This should not be the case if the 80% is multiplicative of my 46% DR. As I should only be taking about 10% of the damage, not 20%. This needs to be corrected.
Deflection Feedback
The other damage mitigation ability is Deflection. Whatever makes it past the equipment and shield block can be deflected. This mitigation is the main mitigation difference between a low GS tank and higher GS tank. As a lower GS should push to get defense to around 3500 before putting any effort into deflect. With little effort in Deflect, my GF has an 11% chance. My friend with much higher GS has a 26% Deflect chance. As it stands, Deflection is not very compelling to put points into. Of the damage mitigation stats, it is the least worthwhile, providing the lowest benefit. The benefit curve is just too low. One idea would be to give a GF more deflect for their Dexterity bonus. Instead of 1% per 2 points past 10 dex, give 2% per point above 10. This would give the GF more survivability without impacting other classes at all, and make Dexterity increases a more enticing choice. The overall affect on high GS tanks would be smaller than on GF’s that are levelling or have a low GS, as it is multiplicative with Damage Resistance. This would have the added effect of making the GF more durable in PvP.
Movement Feedback
I do not think I have ever played an MMO where you cannot walk backwards. This is a major issue in controlling the battle, as you cannot walk backwards leading a monster around to avoid AE damage. You can only turn your back on the monster and move, exposing you to Combat Advantage. Please change so the “S” key properly walks you backwards.
Feedback Tide of Iron
Tooltip needs to list the length and magnitude of the debuff. Tide of Iron needs to be more compelling. Change the debuff to not be Damage Resistance, but instead be defense, like the High Vizier effect. If it is DR, then it has much less impact for a group, as DPS’ers will have enough ArPen to overcome DR already. If you change it to be like the High Vizier effect, then it becomes a damage multiplier. Currently Tide of Iron does more damage per hit against a single target. But it does not provide ongoing threat to multiple targets while killing groups nor is it as effective for damage as Cleave for DPS. Currently if you slot ToI, you have to not have either Lunging Strike, which seriously impacts your ability to move, or Cleave, which seriously impacts your DPS. I would recommend putting a feat deep in the protection tree that lets it damage multiple targets. In fact, that would be great for Iron Guard, as Iron Guard currently is not worth taking. The current version of Iron Guard on test has serious diminishing returns when you are at the 80% damage mitigation cap, which is easy to get to with a competent DC.
Feedback Fighter’s Recovery
The tooltip needs to show what the effect is. You do not know the magnitude or length of the life steal by looking at the tooltip. So there is no way to intelligently assess the ability. If it increases your Life Steal Stat, then it would also benefit from Endless Consumption boon, tripling the effect. This is not apparent from the tooltip as it mentions it as Healing rather than as Life Steal.
Feedback Enhanced Mark
Tooltip does not explain what it does properly. It says that while marked, it builds threat. This sounds like it builds threat without having to do any damage. If that is the case, then how much threat does it build without damage?
Feedback Knight’s Challenge
With new mark putting you at the top of the threat list, why use this now? The only benefit would be if it lowers AE damage, but your group should be avoiding that anyway. Also, tooltip does not give you the buff duration. The tooltip needs to provide you with the information needed to make an informed decision.
Feedback Iron Warrior
Tooltip does not let you know the buff duration. Please include all pertinent information in the tooltip so an informed decision can be made.
Iron Vanguard Abilities Feedback
Feedback Threatening Rush
I miss moving around on demand. The change seems a bit too far. Maybe lower the cooldown to 6 seconds. We will adapt regardless. But it makes it more difficult to control the battlefield when you cannot move around it. The distance is still too short to be effective when fighting a single group of monsters in the Dread Ring. IMHO, this should not be the case. You should be able to move from a monster on one side of the grouping to a monster on the other side of the grouping when using this ability. Another possibility is to give Griffon’s Wrath a short distance rush, so you do not waste it when a monster is slightly too far from you. And give Threatening Rush a longer distance rush. This would provide more movement around the battlefield and give GF’s another tactical decision on encounter powers to use.
Heroic Feats Feedback
Feedback Ubiquitous Shield
The tooltip does not tell us what we need to know in order to intelligently assess this feat. Are the steps additive or multiplicative with the Combat Advantage. For instance, if I put 3 points into the feat, does it eliminate the 15% combat advantage? Or does it only take 15% of the 15% combat advantage. If it is the latter, then it is way too low. As the most amount of damage you could eliminate with 5 points in this is 25% of 15%, so combat advantage would go from 15% to about 11.25%. This does not make this feat choice a good one IMHO, especially when you have diminishing returns with higher DR. Also need to know how it interacts with the DC’s Divine Advantage feat. Do they add together or do they multiply each other? So the Divine Advantage eliminates 80% of the combat advantage, taking it from 15% down to 3%. If I put 4 points in Ubiquitous Shield, does it additively stack with Divine Advantage, completely eliminating the Combat Advantage, or does it multiply with it, only taking it down from 3% to 2.4%? If the former, it might be worth some points. If the latter, I think it is not worth points.
Feedback Grit
The internal cooldown makes this a non choice. This has synergy with Wrathful Warrior, but once every 40 seconds is not compelling. Once every 15 seconds would make it enticing.
Conqueror Feedback
Currently Conqueror tree is superior IMHO due to the stacking of power. This makes threat easier to manage and allows easier soloing to get your boons. The first two tiers of the Protector Tree provide you with the damage mitigation needed to tank, which I believe is brilliantly done. An enhancement to this tree would be to take out one of the current 4th tier feats and add one that provides a moderate boost to Life Steal. This would be synergistic to the power multiplying feats already in this tree and provide an active self heal mechanic.
Protector Feedback
Overall this tree needs some love. My vision would be a tree that provides damage mitigation in the first few tiers, as it currently does, then provides enhanced regen and group damage multipliers in the deeper feats as outlines below. This would provide a clear choice in Conqueror versus Protector, but still make them both viable PvE tanking trees.
Feedback Brawling Warrior
Damage resistance is capped at 80% which is easy to get if you have a competent DC in your group. Would be more enticing if Knight’s Valor added 1/2/3/4/5 % regen instead of DR. Also, make sure that the ticks of regen correspond to the length of Knight’s Valor, so multiples of 3 seconds for both?
Feedback Balanced Shield Fighter
Since the new block mechanic seriously reduces the time you are in Block mode, this feat is pretty much useless. As the tooltip sounds like it only increases the At Will attacks you have while in Block mode. Since Block mode is for such a short amount of time, it would be a lot more useful to make this feat provide 1/2/3/4/5 % regeneration per second when blocking. I know, this is not the usual 3 second tick for regeneration. But since the block only lasts 5 seconds, this would be a 25% self heal over that time. Alternately, you could also make it impact one or two tics of normal regeneration every time you block. So apply a 6 second added regen effect. This would provide the tanks with added regen, which is what they need down this tree.
Feedback Overwhelming Impact
Tooltip does not provide the length of the debuff. Also, if it impacts monster damage resistance, then that means this impacts your Armor Penetration. If GF’s need armor penetration, then they will stack it all the time. Other classes that DPS stack it to around 24%. This makes this feat useless, IMHO. Instead of armor penetration, have it decrease their defenses 2/4/6/8/10%, which increases everyone’s damage to that monster, much like the DC High Prophet Set or the CW High Vizier. That would make it more enticing.
Feedback Iron Guard
Rework this ability. I recommend Tide of Iron hitting multiple opponents in your forward arc. That would add the Tide of Iron debuff to groups of monsters and keep them aggro’ed on you. A GF could more effectively control the boss plus a few adds with Tide of Iron being multi target. Also make Tide of Iron’s debuff not Armor Penetration based, but rather defense shredding based, like High Vizier set. 10% damage multiplier would make this enticing. That would give you a real choice versus Conq tree: either personal damage buff of 20%+ with Conq tree or group damage buff of 10%+ with Protector tree.
Tactician Feedback
I like the first tier when I created a Protector spec. But it does not look viable versus Conqueror and Protector. Just leave it the red headed stepchild that fills in a few blanks in the first few tiers. Or make it the PvP tree.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
The old guard meter was far better than this new stamina system. It has made guardian fighters a lot weaker and we also got nerfed in iron vanguard path because of the gwf. The old guard meter system was a lot more effective and didnt need revamping. We need more guard meter or at least a strong tab ability to help in pvp. Changing out tab ability to one of our useless buffs would have been a great way to buff us and still keep us balanced. We can use knights valor or iron warrior to generate more threat in pvp and save allies and then into the fray would be a good skill for mobility in pvp seeing as you just nerfed threatning rush. The stamina system is really bad and from fighting a lot of people in open world pvp on the preview shard. Overall you have nerfed us and the fact that it does not show block when we guard means that we cannot find a perma stealth and the 80% block means that we will die a lot in both pve and pvp. Seeing as we cannot stand in read circles anymore. Please leave it the way it was and just change out tab ability. That would be a huge buff for both pvp and pve and no need to change our guard meter.
It takes away 8% (16% in my case) of my entire damage. Considered our damage is already as low as it could possibly be, i'd like to have an option to choose between the two marks because i have no intention to be a buff - pet for others. I would rather have it amp my own damage, to the old values. (let's not turn a great class into a party buffing... "something")
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All these damage nerfs, are a step in the wrong direction because damage is actually what we are in need of and we are currently severly lacking in said aspect. (other classes do not need any more damage from our skills, WE need it)
Can you clarify? I haven't noticed any reduction to Mark's DR debuff. Everything they changed was adding to mark - nothing was taken away. Maybe you were experiencing a bug?
- B
Can you clarify? I haven't noticed any reduction to Mark's DR debuff. Everything they changed was adding to mark - nothing was taken away. Maybe you were experiencing a bug?
- B
I respecced and forgot to reallocate my Stats... LOL, my bad. (forget what i said)
Feedback: Enforced Threat.
- This is the utmost best PVE buff the GFs received in the LONGEST, LONGEST time, devs. Thank you very much once more. So I've done a bit more testing with it in solo and group instances in Preview, and I must say that I absolutely how Enforced Threat is now a Power that requires careful thought before using. Because as some people have already mentioned, this is a hard taunt to 20 enemies. It can spell death to the unprepared or bring about certain victory to those who plan how they are to use it. But one of its most striking features is its capability to turn the tide of an encounter. The GWFs have been brutally disfigured with the recent change to Unstoppable, taking part of their survival capabilities with them, and the CWs have had significant decreases to their main PVE skills' DPS and can no longer dish out the damage they used to make, with Arcane Singularity taking a huge hit in its target cap.
A GF that is able to use Enforced Threat well will be a valuable asset to any party, as they can become mob magnets so the GWFs and CWs can burn them down while they are perma-CC-ed to death. The good part about Enforced Threat is that it's an encounter that requires no AP to cast unlike Arcane Singluarity, meaning the CWs can just concentrate on firing their zero target cap dailies such as Oppressive Force. And the mobs will still remain bunched up to the GF, provided they overcome one of the newest and biggest challenges in using this revamped encounter; survival.
Enforced Threat is a high risk, high reward power. If a player is not built to handle the blows that come with using Enforced Threat, he will surely die. But if he is built to take blows for his party, Enforced Threat is the number one must-slot in PVE scenarios where it is a must to control the masses of adds lest they kill the squishies first.
Overall, this rework is a 10/10 for me, an avid player of the GF as a tank. We've been needing a tanking skill like this in the longest time.
Feedback: Please rework the feat trees, specially the Protector Tree.
- Some of us see GFs as a class that should be able to dish out immense burst damage, some of us see the GF as a class that was made to tank. And some just prefer to use their GFs as a party buffer. I think these three roles are an awful lot like the current paragon feat trees we have, Conqueror being the DPS Tree, Protector being the tank tree, and Tactician as the party-buffer. However, the feats inside the tree in all honesty were poorly thought out with the exception of the Conqueror Tree that does what it was supposed to do which is to deal massive DPS. Tactician has a lot of room for improvement, but Protector on the other hand doesn't feel like it actually contributes anything to the act of protecting. Please make this tree synergistic with the act of tanking, aggro management, surviving, and blocking. Basically just tanking overall. And Tactician seems to be the perfect tree for players who want their GF to act as a utility knife that has all sorts of buffs for their party so they can hit harder, or take more hits in the process.
Most GF players will have different opinions as to how the GF should be played, which is all the more reason to separate the roles we have in mind for GFs into those 3 separate trees. There's no reason to constrain a class's overall purpose into just one when we can have 3 feat trees that can house a varying amount of roles, similar to how the reworked HR feat tree is right now.
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noerqMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
Stats
Strength: Now provides Stamina Regen rather than Guard Meter.
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%).
Powers
Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active.
Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds)
Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets.
Mark: Marked targets now grant combat advantage to the Guardian's Allies.
Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Enhanced Mark: Now grants 75% bonus threat per rank (up from 33%).
Knight's Valor: Now transfer's 200% (up from 50%) of the threat allies deal to you.
Enforced Threat: Can now hit up to 20 (up from 8) nearby targets.
Tide of Iron: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Shield Talent: Now causes Block to drain Stamina more slowly
Enforced Threat: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Shield Slam: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Into the Fray: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
Iron Warrior: Base threat bonus increased to 200% (up from 150%).
Iron Warrior: This power now properly increases threat generation.
Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Feats
Armor of Bahamut: *REWORK* When Stamina is below 30%, you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from all sources.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains Stamina 2/4/6/8/10% more slowly.
Reckless Attacker: Now grants its bonus based on remaining Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
Item Sets
Wilds Knight Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
PVP Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
Feedback: Overall Concept There are basicly 3 problems the GF has in its current state: damage, mitigation and threat.
Threat is being addressed in a proper way, as far as I can tell. I think the way the new Mark is working (instant taunt) in addition to the new Enhanced Mark will ensure - in a way - that GF is able to control mobs via threat.
Mitigation is being addressed via the new way Con works (2% -> 4%). But this is not enough. We have to choose whether to be CC immune or to stay alive (300% lifedrain) while tanking, but our overall mitigation is just a joke. You ever tanked the mobs in VT after boss 1 and right before Valindra herself? You'll be dead within half a second if they ever get to hit you, even in the tankiest gear in the tankiest spec imaginable. And now you're even nerfing mitigation block-wise? Seriously, we'll be threat monsters, but have NO possibility to stay alive at all. This is something you need to address properly, and not half-hearted. Make us a tank or leave it, but don't bait us with the new threat system while leaving us squishy.
Damage is not being addressed at all. With the reduced movement we have via the threatening rush changes, we'll be slow, have not enough damage mitigation (see above) and no "escape from prison" shift mechanism anymore. We'll just suck, in PvP and PvE. Our damage will stay the same (laughable if compared, even as conquerer) and we'll still not be wanted in groups. Simply change our weapon damage to the one of GWFs, that would bring us on par with the other classes if specced for DPS (conquerer) while not making us overpowered if on a tank spec without conquerer. (and it will make weapon enchantments other than vorpal worth anything)
Fix us properly or give us a class change token. I see that you're trying, but I can't take these attempts serious. Maybe one of the devs should play a GF him-/herself?
I have made changes to the patch notes below and made BLUE what the changes are. This is how they SHOULD read.
General
Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
Stats
Strength: Now provides Stamina Regen rather than Guard Meter and has been increased to 2% per point (up from 1%)
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%) and increased Armor Penetration by 1%(moved from Dexterity)
Dexterity: Each point of Dexterity increases deflection chance by 1% (up from .5%) and increased critical strike chance by .5%(added to dexterity)
Powers
[*]Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 100% while active. Stamina regeneration on the Guardian Fighter has been increased 100% to bring this concept inline with the goal of the guardian fighters block ability. This should put the base recharge time on block somewhere around 10 seconds. (Note base stamina on block meter lasts 5 seconds - same as the TR stealth)
[*]Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds)
[*]Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets.
[*]Mark: Marked targets now grant combat advantage to the Guardian's Allies.
[*]Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
[*]Enhanced Mark: Now grants 75% bonus threat per rank (up from 33%).
[*]Knight's Valor: Now transfer's 200% (up from 50%) of the threat allies deal to you.
[*]Enforced Threat: Can now hit up to 20 (up from 8) nearby targets.
[*]Tide of Iron: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter. The amount of stamina restored had been doubled. [*]Shield Talent: This feat has been re-worked. Shield Talent now reduces stamina consumption by 10/20/30% and also increases run speed by 3/6/9% on the Guardian Fighter.
[*]Enforced Threat: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Shield Slam: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Into the Fray: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
[*]Iron Warrior: Base threat bonus increased to 200% (up from 150%).
[*]Iron Warrior: This power now properly increases threat generation.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which completely refresh every 9 seconds. This means all three stacks regenerate every 9 seconds.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. The stun time has been increased by .5 seconds. No change on NPCs.
NEW: [*]Guarded Assault: This power now reflects 2/4/6% of income damage back at your attacker (up from 1/2/3%). [*]Anvil of Doom: This power now provides a damage bonus to targets under 35% health (up from 25%). [*]Knee Breaker: This power now slows targets by 30% for 2 seconds. Rank 2: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. Rank 3: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. [*]Bull Charge: The knockback on this power has been removed. It now only prones targets. Rank 2 and 3 provide a damage increase of 15% each (up from 10%).
Feats
Armor of Bahamut: *REWORK* When Stamina is below 30%, you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from all sources.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains Stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly. (Up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
Reckless Attacker: *REWORK* Provides damage bonus up to 25% based upon the amount of health missing.
ReInforced Surge: The additional .5 seconds added to prone, now also applies to stun when attacking enemy players.
Pin Down: The additional .1/.2/.3 seconds of prone duration also apply to stuns when attacking enemy players.
Item Sets
Wilds Knight Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
PVP Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
Black Ice 2 piece Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
I have made changes to the patch notes below and made BLUE what the changes are. This is how they SHOULD read.
General
Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
Stats
Strength: Now provides Stamina Regen rather than Guard Meter and has been increased to 2% per point (up from 1%)
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%) and increased Armor Penetration by 1%(moved from Dexterity)
Dexterity: Each point of Dexterity increases deflection chance by 1% (up from .5%) and increased critical strike chance by .5%(added to dexterity)
Powers
[*]Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 100% while active. Stamina regeneration on the Guardian Fighter has been increased 100% to bring this concept inline with the goal of the guardian fighters block ability. This should put the base recharge time on block somewhere around 10 seconds. (Note base stamina on block meter lasts 5 seconds - same as the TR stealth)
[*]Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds)
[*]Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets.
[*]Mark: Marked targets now grant combat advantage to the Guardian's Allies.
[*]Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
[*]Enhanced Mark: Now grants 75% bonus threat per rank (up from 33%).
[*]Knight's Valor: Now transfer's 200% (up from 50%) of the threat allies deal to you.
[*]Enforced Threat: Can now hit up to 20 (up from 8) nearby targets.
[*]Tide of Iron: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter. The amount of stamina restored had been doubled. [*]Shield Talent: This feat has been re-worked. Shield Talent now reduces stamina consumption by 10/20/30% and also increases run speed by 3/6/9% on the Guardian Fighter.
[*]Enforced Threat: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Shield Slam: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Into the Fray: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
[*]Iron Warrior: Base threat bonus increased to 200% (up from 150%).
[*]Iron Warrior: This power now properly increases threat generation.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which completely refresh every 9 seconds. This means all three stacks regenerate every 9 seconds.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. The stun time has been increased by .5 seconds. No change on NPCs.
NEW: [*]Guarded Assault: This power now reflects 2/4/6% of income damage back at your attacker (up from 1/2/3%). [*]Anvil of Doom: This power now provides a damage bonus to targets under 35% health (up from 25%). [*]Knee Breaker: This power now slows targets by 30% for 2 seconds. Rank 2: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. Rank 3: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. [*]Bull Charge: The knockback on this power has been removed. It now only prones targets. Rank 2 and 3 provide a damage increase of 15% each (up from 10%).
Feats
Armor of Bahamut: *REWORK* When Stamina is below 30%, you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from all sources.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains Stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly. (Up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
Reckless Attacker: *REWORK* Provides damage bonus up to 25% based upon the amount of health missing.
ReInforced Surge: The additional .5 seconds added to prone, now also applies to stun when attacking enemy players.
Pin Down: The additional .1/.2/.3 seconds of prone duration also apply to stuns when attacking enemy players.
Item Sets
Wilds Knight Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
PVP Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
Black Ice 2 piece Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
Are you posting official change notes? If so, I just logged in and don't see any of the items you mentioned above. If not, why did you hijack the official change notes? Post your feedbacks / recommendation, and leave the rest alone. It's very confusing.
I have made changes to the patch notes below and made BLUE what the changes are. This is how they SHOULD read.
General
Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
Stats
Strength: Now provides Stamina Regen rather than Guard Meter and has been increased to 2% per point (up from 1%)
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%) and increased Armor Penetration by 1%(moved from Dexterity)
Dexterity: Each point of Dexterity increases deflection chance by 1% (up from .5%) and increased critical strike chance by .5%(added to dexterity)
Powers
[*]Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 100% while active. Stamina regeneration on the Guardian Fighter has been increased 100% to bring this concept inline with the goal of the guardian fighters block ability. This should put the base recharge time on block somewhere around 10 seconds. (Note base stamina on block meter lasts 5 seconds - same as the TR stealth)
[*]Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds)
[*]Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets.
[*]Mark: Marked targets now grant combat advantage to the Guardian's Allies.
[*]Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
[*]Enhanced Mark: Now grants 75% bonus threat per rank (up from 33%).
[*]Knight's Valor: Now transfer's 200% (up from 50%) of the threat allies deal to you.
[*]Enforced Threat: Can now hit up to 20 (up from 8) nearby targets.
[*]Tide of Iron: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter. The amount of stamina restored had been doubled. [*]Shield Talent: This feat has been re-worked. Shield Talent now reduces stamina consumption by 10/20/30% and also increases run speed by 3/6/9% on the Guardian Fighter.
[*]Enforced Threat: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Shield Slam: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Into the Fray: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
[*]Iron Warrior: Base threat bonus increased to 200% (up from 150%).
[*]Iron Warrior: This power now properly increases threat generation.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which completely refresh every 9 seconds. This means all three stacks regenerate every 9 seconds.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. The stun time has been increased by .5 seconds. No change on NPCs.
NEW: [*]Guarded Assault: This power now reflects 2/4/6% of income damage back at your attacker (up from 1/2/3%). [*]Anvil of Doom: This power now provides a damage bonus to targets under 35% health (up from 25%). [*]Knee Breaker: This power now slows targets by 30% for 2 seconds. Rank 2: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. Rank 3: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. [*]Bull Charge: The knockback on this power has been removed. It now only prones targets. Rank 2 and 3 provide a damage increase of 15% each (up from 10%).
Feats
Armor of Bahamut: *REWORK* When Stamina is below 30%, you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from all sources.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains Stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly. (Up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
Reckless Attacker: *REWORK* Provides damage bonus up to 25% based upon the amount of health missing.
ReInforced Surge: The additional .5 seconds added to prone, now also applies to stun when attacking enemy players.
Pin Down: The additional .1/.2/.3 seconds of prone duration also apply to stuns when attacking enemy players.
Item Sets
Wilds Knight Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
PVP Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
Black Ice 2 piece Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
[/QUOTE]
bullcharge should still have its knockback effect and stamina should be guard meter
Feedback: New and still sub-par shield will be problematic along with increased threat
Now that I have thought more about it, our shield needs to be looked at. The concept is good, but in practice it is lacking. The new Enforced Threat sounds fantastic, but GFs will not be able to cope with the increased damage more threat will bring. Picture aggroing 15 - 20 enemies then raising your shield. Not only will we be giving up combat advantage, our shield, which lasts no more than 5 seconds with Shield Talent, will still allow us to take damage. So we are surrendering combat advantage to enemies behind us (which we understandably cannot block), our shield will still allow in 20% of frontal damage (20% from 2 - 10 enemies is A LOT of damage) and after 5-seconds our guard will drop, leaving us with all the aggro in the world and no means of mitigating it. Even with the 5k more HP I get I will get reduced to rubble if surrounded.
Then we still have the CW & GWF fixes to factor in as well. CWs control and damage less while GWFs will no longer be able to YOLO. This means we will be expected to take on some of the load those two carried. More adds will go uncontrolled and they will stay alive longer, meaning it will be up to us to keep the balance in check.
You guys have all the numbers and all that, but our survivability needs to be looked at with this ramping up of threat generation. 5k more HP and what is quite possibly a worse shield will not hold up to what is a 200 - 300% increase in threat. You have not buffed us offensively outside of Enforced Threat, so if you are going to give us a boatload of threat and negate a CWs control and GWFs face-tanking ability, we need a little more work in the survivability stakes. Maybe push the CON bonus to 5% and go over the guard again. Guard needs to stop 100% of incoming damage and needs to last longer and recharge faster, with feats increasing and shortening the two respectively.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Comments
Now I wonder, why this change was made?.
We will always do less damage than a CW or HR (or at least the 98% of us), so this is a lose in our Threath generation, since we are a melee class we will always be face to face, if it was there and the situation was bad I don't see why it's going to be removed... actually, if you make it more weighted to the distance it would help more to make the foes stick with us.
I agree entirely. I think if it had the following changes:
1) Only depleted while in combat
2) DOUBLE the base duration
3) Id say even a 50% recharge speed increase (cyrptic style) which really just means it takes 1/3rd less time to fully recharge.
4) FULLY recharged when LEAVING combat - again basically same as #1.
I agree with both of these as well. I would also like the 100% Dr put back because we are still getting slammed with damage while we are supposed to be able to be blocking everything, and with our new enforced threat trying to block 20 baddies while you move will still get you killed the way things are right now.
While I have not had a chance to get onto preview as it seems to crash every time I try to log in...just from what I read has me somewhat optimistic that at least the dev staff is looking at the ton of issues currently facing the GF class. Now what develops on preview and goes live has yet to be seen.
Another way that may not have been thought about but has been tried in other mmo's to some success regarding our current and horrible stat allocation (really how much defense does the dev staff really think we need especially with DR?) might be what's termed as over-capping. So once we hit soft/hard caps of say defense (I know as a GF that's darn near impossible right...) it would start converting to another stat say deflect/armor pen/crit/etc. Since there has been no word yet on if our gear sets will get a makeover as well might be an option though not sure how well it could work out in this game.
I ran a CN with 3 other guildies. The party composition was 1 GF (me), 2 CW, 1 DC. Here are some of my feedbacks
Feedback: General
All buffs / nerfs aside, I don't see any change to the basic game mechanics at all. Stacking CWs and GWFs is still the way to go, and GF is still relatively useless, some would even argue more useless than before.
Suggestion
Re-define the roles. Make defender / healer / controller / striker distinctly different from each other. No character should be able to do both (CW should control OR DPS, not both, GWF should tank OR DPS, not both, etc). Also implement control effects diminishing return. This will take away the desire to stack multiple CWs for the control effects. As long as multiples CWs combined can lock down adds, there won't be a place for GF in PvE dungeons.
Feedback: Block
1. Guard meter depletes much too quickly, and re-charges too slowly.
2. Iron Warrior doesn't help much in terms of restoring guard.
3. Guard feels much more useless now. You don't want to raise your shield unnecessarily against small mobs due to the fact that guard depletes the moment shield is raised. But against bigger damaging mobs it doesn't help much in terms of staying alive, because you still take damage. This is especially painful when there are tons of high-damage adds. For example, while doing Beholder HE, an AoE attack drains 50% of my HP with shield up (that's 21K damage).
4. Some control effects still penetrates shield. And when blocking AoE attacks, one still needs to face shield towards the center of the circle in order to avoid control effects.
Suggestion
1. Shield should absorbs 100% of damage. Any other class's shiftability allows them to avoid damage, why shouldn't GF's?
2. While shielded, GF should be immune to any control effects, regardless whether shield is facing the center of a red circle or not.
3. Shield meter should start depleting "only" after the first hit takes place.
4. Make a percentage of life steal goes to guard meter when shield is up.
5. Make Protector path's capstone change guard from frontal cone to 180 degree frontal block.
6. Make Tactician path's capstone change how guard meter is recharged. When shield is down, percentage of damage taken is applied to guard recharging.
7. Allow certain encounters to be activated while guarding, for example Villain's Menace, Enforced Threat, and Iron Warrior.
Suggestion: Con Stats
Having more HP based on CON is great, but the effect is too small. I have probably 5K more HP on the preview shard. That's too little to make any difference. It needs to be a 30% to 50% difference.
Bug: Anvil of Doom
Anvil of Doom damage registers about 1 second AFTER the animation hits. This is also on the live shard. It's especially obvious when Anvil's Doom is chained after another encounter.
* Added *
Overall, the changes so far felt like a nerf to GF. Much squishier due to shield gimped, life steal doesn't help much because damage still low. The gap between GF and GWF / CW feels even larger.
This method is good in PvP for avoid the initial burst damage of many classes and sustain for example for some time the low dmg of TR permas on contest nodes.
Block: while i love the new movement speed while blocking, the duration of the block itself is way too short, also damage go trough block sometimes (bug i gues) There is no sound of blocking and there is no inpact animation like before. Suggestion: fix bug and double the base duration of block meter.
Health points and CON: Awsome!
Threat rush: GWF reasonably nerfed now and this gap closer should be as it is in my opinion. Any further nerf on GF is realy bad.
Frontline surge: Leave it as it is again GWF is fine with new unstopable changes and FS should not be changed. It will gimp GF alot in pvp.
Enforced threat: Awsome!
Threat changes: Awsome!
More suggestions: Armor pen on CON or STR instead of DEX. Remake of protector cap stone (make it very tanky: more life, more deflect, better blocking). Into the fray should be able to be activated while blocking and runing, same thing for iron warrior.
Ok the sum of it is GF in not better with these changes, he needs alot more :S
No. At that point, that wouldnt be any better than either. Especially when we get ahold of a group even a small group at that. That would be broken and we'd end up taking more damage than the old gaurd meter or the new. Even in pvp that wouldnt help much either.
Read the change note, guard only absorbs 80% of the damage on the preview shard now.
Like one big hit of shocking execution and his stamina is full.
Sorry for my bad english.
To iterate it: it is certainly too short, Shield Slam and other powers to recover it do not seem to have any visible impact on Block recovery.
Overall, I like the idea of time-based Block. Maybe the depletion should be even slower if noone is attacking the Guardian Fighter and Combat makes it deplete more rapidly; but the respective powers should have more impact on Block recovery.
Feedback: small status indicator
If one enables the game to show the HP and Block indicator above the head of the toon, the Block indicator is not synchronous with the big Block indicator on the left of the toon; the small one above the head is misleading and does not represent the actual remaining Block duration. (It seems to function like the old system did, that is: it indicates the remaining Block like it usually did.)
Feedback: tooltip of PvP armour and Pseudodragon and Sharandar boon
All of these state that they regenerate Block and not Stamina.
Feedback: Overall defence
Please consider, to enhance Deflection and other defensive means of the Guardian Fighter, as with this more Threat a single mistake with Block could mean the death of the Guardian Fighter in its current state: there are Control powers out there and it is not always able to block due to a Prone chain or other incapacities in PvE as well in PvP.
In PvP the Guardian Fighter is sometimes only able to kill a target thanks to its bigger survivability and thus it should have a remarkable better survivability as this (great survivability) should be the paragon aspect of a tanking class -- as such you present the Guardian Fighter apparently, so it would be good to give it the tools for this role.
Feedback: Artefact swapping
It was not possible for me to swap an Artefact by right-clicking it and choosing the new Artefact out of the menu; I had to place the Artefact out of the Inventory directly into the respective slot.
Feedback: Regeneration
There are some situations which could prevent Regeneration from regenerating your HP, but I was not able to discern which exactly: I encountered one in PvP with an ice Wizard. (They are so cool now xD).
Feedback: Threatening Rush
Seems to be ok, maybe with 1 or 2 seconds less cooldown. After all, the Guardian Fighter should be able to reach its target before it dies; as Swordmaster I do no longer have this At-Will anyway.
It still sends players prone instead of stunning them.
I'd gladly give up the movement speed change to see guard returned to 100% DR. I'm not using block to run away, I'm using it to absorb a hit -- or several -- and return to swinging.
I'd also like to throw in my vote for a couple of tonyswu's suggestions. I'd love to see the protector capstone get an increase to guard area, and I'd love to see the tactician capstone get an increase (in some way) to guard regeneration. This would help make them more appealing in comparison to the otherwise ubiquitous conqueror spec. I think the other feats in the tactician and protector lines need to be reworked/reordered. It seems like all the good feats from those paths are available pretty early on anyway, so conquerors don't get a lot of incentive to dip down the tree.
- B
Even the devs seem unable to comprehend that the current GF Tab needs to go to Shift ( as Mark is simply useless ) and the current Shift needs to go to Tab. That would put block in its right place and you then perhaps you will take a serious look at making it as good as others classes's Tab ability. I was just on Preview and spent some time in the Pass. There are no Trolls there but I felt trolled and hard too. Here is my feedback in RED:
Guard breaks faster then on Live !
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
To put in other words, on Live GFs have one arm tied behind the back, on Preview we have both arms tied behind our backs. Awesome job devs. To think you actually made these changes speaks volumes about you understanding of the class you created in the first place. None of you play a GF ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
After deleting it, I did the copy again and I have my stuff and my boons (T2 bonus 4 is awesome).
So, I tested again and came to the conclusion that stuff is really important and takes a great part in the way you play.
I have more power, more HP but less defense. What I could not do yesterday is possible today.
I went to Dwarven Valley by the way, Icewind Dale HE seem to be bugged. I soloed some minor ones just fine finally.
Guard
I am still not fond of the timed guard, even with a longer duration.
I could understand if you have a way of predicting hits. In PvE, it is quite possible but not in PvP. This system forces you to keep your guard down as much as possible to only block big hits. There is no counterpart of playing with such a timing, it is even worse because you also take 20% of the damage.
Inconsistencies. I put my guard up and guard meter stays the same. I do it another time and guard meter goes down.
If I use Enforced Threat and put my guard up, guard meter goes down even if nobody hit me. I think when your character takes a combat stance, guard meter is used.
Animations
Animation powers are too long. With the preview guard system, it is an invitation to be hit and even if mobs do not hit you during it, you take damage afterwards behind your shield or when trying to avoid melee contact.
Baseline Abilities Feedback
So you want the GF to be a proper tank... manage the battle thru the use of threat and damage mitigation. While the damage mitigation piece can be understood via parsing, the way threat works is a black box. If we are to manage threat, we really need to have a better handle on how the mechanic works. Can we shed some light on it?
Feedback Threat Mechanics
My understanding is that whoever has the most threat is at the top of a monsters threat meter, with the exception being Fighter abilities that temporarily artificially put them at the top of the threat list. Sounds simple enough. But there are lots of nuances that need answers to understand it properly.
We know that threat is damage/healing multiplied by a threat modifier. What we don’t know is…do you use the raw damage to determine threat or is it modified damage? That is important because if it is modified damage (raw damage minus the monster’s damage reduction), the tank needs to stack Armor Penetration to be most effective. Can we get an answer for this?
Also, how do control effects affect threat? For instance, an attack that does straight damage has straightforward threat. But does an attack that slows/prones/stuns a target have added threat?
Enforced Threat puts you at the top of the threat list for the duration of the ability. If you do not create enough threat during the ability’s time limit, do the monster’s go back to whoever tops their threat list?
What does it take to move from the number one spot on the threat list. Other games I have played required someone to do 20% (or some significant amount) more threat in order to take the aggro and be on the top of the threat list. Is this the case in Neverwinter, or is it just a straight number and whoever is top number is aggro’ed?
Also, how does threat decay work? Does a GF’s threat decay at a slower rate than other class’s threat? Is decay straight line or is it a curve that starts slow and then rapidly increases, such that more recent threat is weighted more than threat created 6 seconds prior?
Marks are still confusing because you have two types of marks. All marks put you at the top of the monster’s threat list. Effectively making them attack you.
Temporary marks are applied thru the use of all abilities except the tab key. Temporary marks last a short amount of time, or until the monster hits the fighter. Whichever is shorter.
Tabbed Marks are more persistent and last for as long as the GF is engaged with the monster as primary target. Multiple targets can be Tab Marked even while striking you, theoretically, for as long as you keep your block up.
I only have anecdotal evidence of this. Am I correct in my understanding of the mechanics of the two types of marks?
Block Feedback
There is a hard capped Damage Resistance of 80% (I refer to it as equipment, but it includes equipment, buffs, feats, etc). It was explained that Block is another 80% multiplicative of this. So the total Damage Mitigation with Block would be 96% if you hit your DR hard cap of 80%. But…Block seems to merely increases your current Damage Resistance to the hard cap of 80%. From my own testing, when blocking attacks in Dread Ring, I was still getting hit for over 1k damage. This should not be the case if the 80% is multiplicative of my 46% DR. As I should only be taking about 10% of the damage, not 20%. This needs to be corrected.
Deflection Feedback
The other damage mitigation ability is Deflection. Whatever makes it past the equipment and shield block can be deflected. This mitigation is the main mitigation difference between a low GS tank and higher GS tank. As a lower GS should push to get defense to around 3500 before putting any effort into deflect. With little effort in Deflect, my GF has an 11% chance. My friend with much higher GS has a 26% Deflect chance. As it stands, Deflection is not very compelling to put points into. Of the damage mitigation stats, it is the least worthwhile, providing the lowest benefit. The benefit curve is just too low. One idea would be to give a GF more deflect for their Dexterity bonus. Instead of 1% per 2 points past 10 dex, give 2% per point above 10. This would give the GF more survivability without impacting other classes at all, and make Dexterity increases a more enticing choice. The overall affect on high GS tanks would be smaller than on GF’s that are levelling or have a low GS, as it is multiplicative with Damage Resistance. This would have the added effect of making the GF more durable in PvP.
Movement Feedback
I do not think I have ever played an MMO where you cannot walk backwards. This is a major issue in controlling the battle, as you cannot walk backwards leading a monster around to avoid AE damage. You can only turn your back on the monster and move, exposing you to Combat Advantage. Please change so the “S” key properly walks you backwards.
Feedback Tide of Iron
Tooltip needs to list the length and magnitude of the debuff. Tide of Iron needs to be more compelling. Change the debuff to not be Damage Resistance, but instead be defense, like the High Vizier effect. If it is DR, then it has much less impact for a group, as DPS’ers will have enough ArPen to overcome DR already. If you change it to be like the High Vizier effect, then it becomes a damage multiplier. Currently Tide of Iron does more damage per hit against a single target. But it does not provide ongoing threat to multiple targets while killing groups nor is it as effective for damage as Cleave for DPS. Currently if you slot ToI, you have to not have either Lunging Strike, which seriously impacts your ability to move, or Cleave, which seriously impacts your DPS. I would recommend putting a feat deep in the protection tree that lets it damage multiple targets. In fact, that would be great for Iron Guard, as Iron Guard currently is not worth taking. The current version of Iron Guard on test has serious diminishing returns when you are at the 80% damage mitigation cap, which is easy to get to with a competent DC.
Feedback Fighter’s Recovery
The tooltip needs to show what the effect is. You do not know the magnitude or length of the life steal by looking at the tooltip. So there is no way to intelligently assess the ability. If it increases your Life Steal Stat, then it would also benefit from Endless Consumption boon, tripling the effect. This is not apparent from the tooltip as it mentions it as Healing rather than as Life Steal.
Feedback Enhanced Mark
Tooltip does not explain what it does properly. It says that while marked, it builds threat. This sounds like it builds threat without having to do any damage. If that is the case, then how much threat does it build without damage?
Feedback Knight’s Challenge
With new mark putting you at the top of the threat list, why use this now? The only benefit would be if it lowers AE damage, but your group should be avoiding that anyway. Also, tooltip does not give you the buff duration. The tooltip needs to provide you with the information needed to make an informed decision.
Feedback Iron Warrior
Tooltip does not let you know the buff duration. Please include all pertinent information in the tooltip so an informed decision can be made.
Iron Vanguard Abilities Feedback
Feedback Threatening Rush
I miss moving around on demand. The change seems a bit too far. Maybe lower the cooldown to 6 seconds. We will adapt regardless. But it makes it more difficult to control the battlefield when you cannot move around it. The distance is still too short to be effective when fighting a single group of monsters in the Dread Ring. IMHO, this should not be the case. You should be able to move from a monster on one side of the grouping to a monster on the other side of the grouping when using this ability. Another possibility is to give Griffon’s Wrath a short distance rush, so you do not waste it when a monster is slightly too far from you. And give Threatening Rush a longer distance rush. This would provide more movement around the battlefield and give GF’s another tactical decision on encounter powers to use.
Heroic Feats Feedback
Feedback Ubiquitous Shield
The tooltip does not tell us what we need to know in order to intelligently assess this feat. Are the steps additive or multiplicative with the Combat Advantage. For instance, if I put 3 points into the feat, does it eliminate the 15% combat advantage? Or does it only take 15% of the 15% combat advantage. If it is the latter, then it is way too low. As the most amount of damage you could eliminate with 5 points in this is 25% of 15%, so combat advantage would go from 15% to about 11.25%. This does not make this feat choice a good one IMHO, especially when you have diminishing returns with higher DR. Also need to know how it interacts with the DC’s Divine Advantage feat. Do they add together or do they multiply each other? So the Divine Advantage eliminates 80% of the combat advantage, taking it from 15% down to 3%. If I put 4 points in Ubiquitous Shield, does it additively stack with Divine Advantage, completely eliminating the Combat Advantage, or does it multiply with it, only taking it down from 3% to 2.4%? If the former, it might be worth some points. If the latter, I think it is not worth points.
Feedback Grit
The internal cooldown makes this a non choice. This has synergy with Wrathful Warrior, but once every 40 seconds is not compelling. Once every 15 seconds would make it enticing.
Conqueror Feedback
Currently Conqueror tree is superior IMHO due to the stacking of power. This makes threat easier to manage and allows easier soloing to get your boons. The first two tiers of the Protector Tree provide you with the damage mitigation needed to tank, which I believe is brilliantly done. An enhancement to this tree would be to take out one of the current 4th tier feats and add one that provides a moderate boost to Life Steal. This would be synergistic to the power multiplying feats already in this tree and provide an active self heal mechanic.
Protector Feedback
Overall this tree needs some love. My vision would be a tree that provides damage mitigation in the first few tiers, as it currently does, then provides enhanced regen and group damage multipliers in the deeper feats as outlines below. This would provide a clear choice in Conqueror versus Protector, but still make them both viable PvE tanking trees.
Feedback Brawling Warrior
Damage resistance is capped at 80% which is easy to get if you have a competent DC in your group. Would be more enticing if Knight’s Valor added 1/2/3/4/5 % regen instead of DR. Also, make sure that the ticks of regen correspond to the length of Knight’s Valor, so multiples of 3 seconds for both?
Feedback Balanced Shield Fighter
Since the new block mechanic seriously reduces the time you are in Block mode, this feat is pretty much useless. As the tooltip sounds like it only increases the At Will attacks you have while in Block mode. Since Block mode is for such a short amount of time, it would be a lot more useful to make this feat provide 1/2/3/4/5 % regeneration per second when blocking. I know, this is not the usual 3 second tick for regeneration. But since the block only lasts 5 seconds, this would be a 25% self heal over that time. Alternately, you could also make it impact one or two tics of normal regeneration every time you block. So apply a 6 second added regen effect. This would provide the tanks with added regen, which is what they need down this tree.
Feedback Overwhelming Impact
Tooltip does not provide the length of the debuff. Also, if it impacts monster damage resistance, then that means this impacts your Armor Penetration. If GF’s need armor penetration, then they will stack it all the time. Other classes that DPS stack it to around 24%. This makes this feat useless, IMHO. Instead of armor penetration, have it decrease their defenses 2/4/6/8/10%, which increases everyone’s damage to that monster, much like the DC High Prophet Set or the CW High Vizier. That would make it more enticing.
Feedback Iron Guard
Rework this ability. I recommend Tide of Iron hitting multiple opponents in your forward arc. That would add the Tide of Iron debuff to groups of monsters and keep them aggro’ed on you. A GF could more effectively control the boss plus a few adds with Tide of Iron being multi target. Also make Tide of Iron’s debuff not Armor Penetration based, but rather defense shredding based, like High Vizier set. 10% damage multiplier would make this enticing. That would give you a real choice versus Conq tree: either personal damage buff of 20%+ with Conq tree or group damage buff of 10%+ with Protector tree.
Tactician Feedback
I like the first tier when I created a Protector spec. But it does not look viable versus Conqueror and Protector. Just leave it the red headed stepchild that fills in a few blanks in the first few tiers. Or make it the PvP tree.
Which is GREAT!
Knights challenge still is bugged
Feedback
The old guard meter was far better than this new stamina system. It has made guardian fighters a lot weaker and we also got nerfed in iron vanguard path because of the gwf. The old guard meter system was a lot more effective and didnt need revamping. We need more guard meter or at least a strong tab ability to help in pvp. Changing out tab ability to one of our useless buffs would have been a great way to buff us and still keep us balanced. We can use knights valor or iron warrior to generate more threat in pvp and save allies and then into the fray would be a good skill for mobility in pvp seeing as you just nerfed threatning rush. The stamina system is really bad and from fighting a lot of people in open world pvp on the preview shard. Overall you have nerfed us and the fact that it does not show block when we guard means that we cannot find a perma stealth and the 80% block means that we will die a lot in both pve and pvp. Seeing as we cannot stand in read circles anymore. Please leave it the way it was and just change out tab ability. That would be a huge buff for both pvp and pve and no need to change our guard meter.
I really like the new concept, it makes us idk what but i like it.
---
Peace.
Can you clarify? I haven't noticed any reduction to Mark's DR debuff. Everything they changed was adding to mark - nothing was taken away. Maybe you were experiencing a bug?
- B
I respecced and forgot to reallocate my Stats... LOL, my bad. (forget what i said)
- This is the utmost best PVE buff the GFs received in the LONGEST, LONGEST time, devs. Thank you very much once more. So I've done a bit more testing with it in solo and group instances in Preview, and I must say that I absolutely how Enforced Threat is now a Power that requires careful thought before using. Because as some people have already mentioned, this is a hard taunt to 20 enemies. It can spell death to the unprepared or bring about certain victory to those who plan how they are to use it. But one of its most striking features is its capability to turn the tide of an encounter. The GWFs have been brutally disfigured with the recent change to Unstoppable, taking part of their survival capabilities with them, and the CWs have had significant decreases to their main PVE skills' DPS and can no longer dish out the damage they used to make, with Arcane Singularity taking a huge hit in its target cap.
A GF that is able to use Enforced Threat well will be a valuable asset to any party, as they can become mob magnets so the GWFs and CWs can burn them down while they are perma-CC-ed to death. The good part about Enforced Threat is that it's an encounter that requires no AP to cast unlike Arcane Singluarity, meaning the CWs can just concentrate on firing their zero target cap dailies such as Oppressive Force. And the mobs will still remain bunched up to the GF, provided they overcome one of the newest and biggest challenges in using this revamped encounter; survival.
Enforced Threat is a high risk, high reward power. If a player is not built to handle the blows that come with using Enforced Threat, he will surely die. But if he is built to take blows for his party, Enforced Threat is the number one must-slot in PVE scenarios where it is a must to control the masses of adds lest they kill the squishies first.
Overall, this rework is a 10/10 for me, an avid player of the GF as a tank. We've been needing a tanking skill like this in the longest time.
Feedback: Please rework the feat trees, specially the Protector Tree.
- Some of us see GFs as a class that should be able to dish out immense burst damage, some of us see the GF as a class that was made to tank. And some just prefer to use their GFs as a party buffer. I think these three roles are an awful lot like the current paragon feat trees we have, Conqueror being the DPS Tree, Protector being the tank tree, and Tactician as the party-buffer. However, the feats inside the tree in all honesty were poorly thought out with the exception of the Conqueror Tree that does what it was supposed to do which is to deal massive DPS. Tactician has a lot of room for improvement, but Protector on the other hand doesn't feel like it actually contributes anything to the act of protecting. Please make this tree synergistic with the act of tanking, aggro management, surviving, and blocking. Basically just tanking overall. And Tactician seems to be the perfect tree for players who want their GF to act as a utility knife that has all sorts of buffs for their party so they can hit harder, or take more hits in the process.
Most GF players will have different opinions as to how the GF should be played, which is all the more reason to separate the roles we have in mind for GFs into those 3 separate trees. There's no reason to constrain a class's overall purpose into just one when we can have 3 feat trees that can house a varying amount of roles, similar to how the reworked HR feat tree is right now.
Feedback: Overall Concept
There are basicly 3 problems the GF has in its current state: damage, mitigation and threat.
Threat is being addressed in a proper way, as far as I can tell. I think the way the new Mark is working (instant taunt) in addition to the new Enhanced Mark will ensure - in a way - that GF is able to control mobs via threat.
Mitigation is being addressed via the new way Con works (2% -> 4%). But this is not enough. We have to choose whether to be CC immune or to stay alive (300% lifedrain) while tanking, but our overall mitigation is just a joke. You ever tanked the mobs in VT after boss 1 and right before Valindra herself? You'll be dead within half a second if they ever get to hit you, even in the tankiest gear in the tankiest spec imaginable. And now you're even nerfing mitigation block-wise? Seriously, we'll be threat monsters, but have NO possibility to stay alive at all. This is something you need to address properly, and not half-hearted. Make us a tank or leave it, but don't bait us with the new threat system while leaving us squishy.
Damage is not being addressed at all. With the reduced movement we have via the threatening rush changes, we'll be slow, have not enough damage mitigation (see above) and no "escape from prison" shift mechanism anymore. We'll just suck, in PvP and PvE. Our damage will stay the same (laughable if compared, even as conquerer) and we'll still not be wanted in groups. Simply change our weapon damage to the one of GWFs, that would bring us on par with the other classes if specced for DPS (conquerer) while not making us overpowered if on a tank spec without conquerer. (and it will make weapon enchantments other than vorpal worth anything)
Fix us properly or give us a class change token. I see that you're trying, but I can't take these attempts serious. Maybe one of the devs should play a GF him-/herself?
General
- Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
Stats- Strength: Now provides Stamina Regen rather than Guard Meter and has been increased to 2% per point (up from 1%)
- Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%) and increased Armor Penetration by 1%(moved from Dexterity)
- Dexterity: Each point of Dexterity increases deflection chance by 1% (up from .5%) and increased critical strike chance by .5%(added to dexterity)
Powers[*]Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 100% while active. Stamina regeneration on the Guardian Fighter has been increased 100% to bring this concept inline with the goal of the guardian fighters block ability. This should put the base recharge time on block somewhere around 10 seconds. (Note base stamina on block meter lasts 5 seconds - same as the TR stealth)
[*]Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds)
[*]Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets.
[*]Mark: Marked targets now grant combat advantage to the Guardian's Allies.
[*]Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
[*]Enhanced Mark: Now grants 75% bonus threat per rank (up from 33%).
[*]Knight's Valor: Now transfer's 200% (up from 50%) of the threat allies deal to you.
[*]Enforced Threat: Can now hit up to 20 (up from 8) nearby targets.
[*]Tide of Iron: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter. The amount of stamina restored had been doubled.
[*]Shield Talent: This feat has been re-worked. Shield Talent now reduces stamina consumption by 10/20/30% and also increases run speed by 3/6/9% on the Guardian Fighter.
[*]Enforced Threat: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Shield Slam: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Into the Fray: Now restores Stamina instead of Guard Meter.
[*]Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
[*]Iron Warrior: Base threat bonus increased to 200% (up from 150%).
[*]Iron Warrior: This power now properly increases threat generation.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which completely refresh every 9 seconds. This means all three stacks regenerate every 9 seconds.
[*]Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. The stun time has been increased by .5 seconds. No change on NPCs.
NEW:
[*]Guarded Assault: This power now reflects 2/4/6% of income damage back at your attacker (up from 1/2/3%).
[*]Anvil of Doom: This power now provides a damage bonus to targets under 35% health (up from 25%).
[*]Knee Breaker: This power now slows targets by 30% for 2 seconds. Rank 2: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow. Rank 3: Damage increased 10% and +1 second to slow.
[*]Bull Charge: The knockback on this power has been removed. It now only prones targets. Rank 2 and 3 provide a damage increase of 15% each (up from 10%).
Feats
- Armor of Bahamut: *REWORK* When Stamina is below 30%, you take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from all sources.
- Shieldmaster: Guard now drains Stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly. (Up from 2/4/6/8/10%)
- Reckless Attacker: *REWORK* Provides damage bonus up to 25% based upon the amount of health missing.
- ReInforced Surge: The additional .5 seconds added to prone, now also applies to stun when attacking enemy players.
- Pin Down: The additional .1/.2/.3 seconds of prone duration also apply to stuns when attacking enemy players.
Item Sets- Wilds Knight Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
- PVP Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
- Black Ice 2 piece Set Bonus: Now grants Stamina rather than Guard Meter.
[/QUOTE]Are you posting official change notes? If so, I just logged in and don't see any of the items you mentioned above. If not, why did you hijack the official change notes? Post your feedbacks / recommendation, and leave the rest alone. It's very confusing.
bullcharge should still have its knockback effect and stamina should be guard meter
Now that I have thought more about it, our shield needs to be looked at. The concept is good, but in practice it is lacking. The new Enforced Threat sounds fantastic, but GFs will not be able to cope with the increased damage more threat will bring. Picture aggroing 15 - 20 enemies then raising your shield. Not only will we be giving up combat advantage, our shield, which lasts no more than 5 seconds with Shield Talent, will still allow us to take damage. So we are surrendering combat advantage to enemies behind us (which we understandably cannot block), our shield will still allow in 20% of frontal damage (20% from 2 - 10 enemies is A LOT of damage) and after 5-seconds our guard will drop, leaving us with all the aggro in the world and no means of mitigating it. Even with the 5k more HP I get I will get reduced to rubble if surrounded.
Then we still have the CW & GWF fixes to factor in as well. CWs control and damage less while GWFs will no longer be able to YOLO. This means we will be expected to take on some of the load those two carried. More adds will go uncontrolled and they will stay alive longer, meaning it will be up to us to keep the balance in check.
You guys have all the numbers and all that, but our survivability needs to be looked at with this ramping up of threat generation. 5k more HP and what is quite possibly a worse shield will not hold up to what is a 200 - 300% increase in threat. You have not buffed us offensively outside of Enforced Threat, so if you are going to give us a boatload of threat and negate a CWs control and GWFs face-tanking ability, we need a little more work in the survivability stakes. Maybe push the CON bonus to 5% and go over the guard again. Guard needs to stop 100% of incoming damage and needs to last longer and recharge faster, with feats increasing and shortening the two respectively.