Alright, this entire new block "system" is terrible compared to the one we currently have on live. Now blocking actually feels more like a burden than an actual advantage during combat. The worst part is, i can block for a longer duration on live than i can on preview, with the exact same gear and 135% guard meter. If you decide, to keep the new block - system... at least do not turn the entire feature into a pre - canned type of thing. The stamina should not deplete if the shield is raised, but blocking attacks of course should make it deplete.(makes more sense to me). It also should grant a total damage immunity since blocking does exactly that and not just 80%... there are certain skills that can deal pretty high damage even if the incoming damage is 20% of their original value.
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I'd like to throw in some suggestions, while we're at it.
Dex should grant crit rate, instead of deflection and Con should grant deflection, additional to the current stats. (makes more sense to also have the "privilege" of getting at least some crit from stats)
Leave the blocking - system as it is on live but decrease the guard depletion by 100-200% and scrap the new one entirely. Increase the cone area in which we're able to block (our flanks tend to be too open).
Speed up the animations of cleave, knight's challenge, crushing surge, griffon's wrath (it is still too slow), tide of iron. (along with the other countless, slowpoke animation skills.)
Aggravating strike should have the "stepping forward" animation cut out, because all it does is exposing our flanks to the target we initially tried to hit. (this would give us better survivability, especially in pvp)
Shield slam should have a small knockback applied, in order to create more space for us to set things up (shields tend to push/move targets if one gets hit by a bash).
Mark, should increase OUR damage, not the damage of our party (we are the ones in need of more damage and not the already hard hitting rest of the classes)
Fix the many bugs of our knight's challenge skill. (detailed description in a thread i created, link is provided on the 2nd page of this thread)
Anvil of doom should have it's double damage bonus apply at 35-40% hp. (GWF can just 1 hit mobs at that percentage anyway, aswell as other classes are able to, rendering our only real damage skill nearly useless)
Raise our weapon damage or give our shields additional weapon damage, just like off-hands for rogues do (~630. weapon damage in the current meta, really doesn't cut it).
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I could go on and on with suggestions, but i think this sums about up, what's wrong with this class.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Does this mean it will *still* prone NPCs? Will there be any secondary function added to feats that increase prone durations, so they still prvide some benefit against other players in PvP?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Just tested it a little, I'm busy right now but here's my opinion:
Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active. I found that in the new Block System the stamina drains too fast, for example, before I could have my guard up in 1v1 with a GWF like for 7 seconds with the help of Shield Slam, now it is broken in 3-4 seconds even if nobody is attacking me, yes, it does regenerate faster, but 3-4 seconds is not very good for me, it should last at least twice, or 3 times more (even if you make the regeneration slower), with the current state I prefer the older system
I haven't tested other aspects, but at least I'm loving everything what I'm reading (except the block system), thanks for making changes on this class!.
I just was doing some pvp on the preview server I do enjoy the increased mobility but block just doesn't give the same protection mostly cause now we need to pre empt the incoming attacks and with lag it is near impossible.
Also as far as i can tell please leave FLS as it currently is on preview still prones leave it ALONE.
Also block seems to not provide cc immunity reliably so the 80% damage prevented also seems to apply to cc prevention as well a chance to live against beholder say 80%.
These are what I have experienced on the preview server as of today
My suggestions
Block:This ability has been changed in a direction which on paper looks awesome but in actual use is rather unstable with the current implementation on preview. It currently seems to have a chance to not block cc and seems tied to the fact that it blocks 80% of incoming damage and an 80% at stopping any cc ability from the looks of it so far. In pvp no matter what spec you are the other class just has to wait on us to lose our guard so they essentially remove our guard without attacking us. Please if you go down this rather nerfed block scenario make it so they actually need to damage us a certain percent(20%) of our hp before we start to lose our block stamina and increase the base time to something where it doesn't feel like we put it up and 3 seconds later its gone.
Threatening Rush:With the charges on threatening rush please revert this change designed for gwfs it is an invalid nerf based on the fact we share a paragon path with a class who never needed threatening rush in the first place. Even with the change to block we still need this ability to not be hindered as block lasts only so long(rather short). If this is pushed you better allow the gf(only the gf, stop buffing the gwf) to get a recovery bonus on this or else its barely even viable. In short this change goes against what an at will is. This at will was only meant for the gf in the first place.
Main-Lothor Syralth Guardian Fighter
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
I have been checking the GWF changes and find it funny that 2 of their capstone has been change dramatically or added some effect on top of what it currently does how come this changes doesn't go to our capstone.
The most in need capstone is the protector capstone - it doesn't really do that much compared to the sentinel capstone - destroyer is a bigger benefit than the conqueror.
GUARD: Its bugged right now, as soon as you hold up guard it drains stamina rapidly, slam doesnt regen anything because of this. You can barely hold up your guard for long before all your stam has depleted. If this is intentional, its very bad.
True. You can hold up your shield about 3 secs or so... Imagine pulling 20 mobs and getting banged after 3 secs because stamina is depleted. Really bad in PVP also, is not enough time to defend from a single enemy much less if you are being attacked bi 2 or more.
FLS is so wrong. WE DONT SPRINT and we dont DPS like other classes at least don't mess with our prone and close skills
Please listen to this person! This is the sum up of the things you should be really be working on not threat increasing useless thing, or nerfing our paragon powers.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
edited June 2014
Feedback: Blocking/Guard Meter Guard Meter - The current guard meter works perfectly fine. It's just too weak for both PvP & PvE, especially against enemies with perfect weapon enchantments. The chunks that break off are too great, and causes the GF's shield to drop way too early. If you keep the stamina guard, at least allow us to hold our shields for much longer and block 100% incoming damage. Otherwise, what's the point in the shield if we still take damage lol?
Feedback: Knee Breaker & Griffin's Wrath These two powers have SOOO much potential, but are limited. They both are very easy to avoid, and when missed the the cool down shows no mercy. Both these powers require the same lock-on feature as the GWF's Take Down encounter, and the reduced cool down if missed.
- Griffin's Wrath has a really good stun feature, and could be compared to the Rogue's Impact Shot. However, there is one MAJOR difference. Impact Shot is a range attack, Griffin's Wrath is close quarters. People can easily escape Griffin's Wrath by simply holding 'W' to run... Griffin's Wrath stun effect should at least last 0.1 - 0.3 seconds longer so it's chain-able. Otherwise we'll just miss and be penalized with a cool down. Also, Griffin's Wrath will use unwanted charges if you press the hotkey for the encounter, then hold left-click to cleave. Also during a TR's Duelist Flurry, if hit by Griffin's Wrath, the Duelist Flurry animation should be interrupted and reset. As of right now, TR's are able to continue the combo after being stunned. Unlike Frontline Surge or Bull Charge which completely resets them. Lastly, Griffin's Wrath creates a guard delay after use.
- Knee Breaker would be wonderful if it had both a slowing & stun effect. As of right now, CW's, TR's, DC's, and HR's can just dodge while affected by Knee Breaker to get some distance from the slow moving GF. However, these very same classes are unable to dodge while stunned by as Rogue's Smoke Bomb which is AoE. If Knee Breaker had both the Rogue's stun effect and slow effect, it would be an EXCELLENT option for both PvP and PvE boss fights.
Feedback: High General High General should do exactly as it says in it's description. If it did, that would boost DPS in dungeons (which people want...), creating a place for GF's in high end dungeons. Remove the internal 30 second cool down, so crit severity could be stacked, and refreshed every 8 seconds. By doing this, it will truly make HG a Tier 2 set. A person who dedicates his character to be a TEAM PLAYER should never be penalized with nerfs or hit caps. I would also like to point out, HG does not have the resources needed to be overpowered in PvP. GF's only use single target powers in PvP, and if they do use AoE's, they will cripple their damage capabilities (which creates a balance). Not to mention we have low critical chance to begin with, plus tenacity & tenacity gear is more popular anyways.
Feedback: Knight's Captain Why not just adjust it to where it gives 20% power, and 60-75% defense boost? You can't go wrong with adding survivability to the entire team.
Feedback: Bull Charge Bull Charge needs a rollback. The original Bull Charge was much more reliable, especially when it came to knocking people off of nodes.
Feedback: Guard Defects There's a huge delay to re-guard after recovering from prones & stuns. For example; if a player was holding his assigned button to guard, and was then knocked prone or stunned. While still holding the guard button, the GF will NOT immediately guard from attacks again as soon as possible (in other words once the crowd control effect is over, you have to repress your guard button instead of the GF re-guarding automatically).
Another defect is when the GF will repeat the Threatening Rush animation if you press the guard button before the original Threatening Rush animation is done. Very annoying, and can cause players to die during the heat of battle.
Feedback: Iron Warrior Animation GF's should be able to cancel the animation by holding guard, like we can with Knight's Valor. In the heat of the moment, the casting time can really make a life or death difference, ESPECIALLY in PvP. Example; I'm on my mount headed towards a node, and on that node there's a bad guy. Before I get to the node, I have to make sure I'm at a safe distance before casting Iron Warrior otherwise I'll be interrupted by the enemy. Once activated, I now have to walk the rest of the distance to get on the node; wasting precious time of Iron Warrior.
Feedback: Guarded Assault Guarded Assault should reflect 15% of all blocked damage at 3/3pts, and Protector's Guarded Assault should have a feat in the Protector tree allowing it to reflect 25% of all blocked damage back to it's attacker.
Feedback: Improved Vigor Feat Improved Vigor should be 5/10/15/20/25%
Feedback: Plate Agility Feat Plate Agility should be 2/4/6/8/10%.
Feedback: Brawling Warrior Brawling Warrior Feat should increase damage resistance by 3/6/9/12/15%
Feedback: Inspiring Leader Feat Inspiring Leader should also increase the party's damage resistance by 2/4/6/8/10%, or deflect chance by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Feedback: Surging Tide Feat Surging Tide should be 4/8/12/16/20%.
Feedback: Armor of Bahamut Feat Armor of Bahamut should reduce all incoming damage by 30% when guard is broken.
Feedback: Take Measure Feat Take Measure should give 40%, with a cool down of 1 minute. Because the average GF has about 29-32k HP, because 5% of 29k is only 1450 HP.
Feedback: Deflection High deflection should come naturally to us, like crit comes naturally to CW's, TR's, HR's, GWF's, and DC's... GF's should have EASY access to 35% deflection.
Feedback: Enduring Warrior Enduring Warrior should heal the GF for 10-20% for every kill instead of 1-3%. There should be a feat in the Conq' tree that boost it by +1-5% (with a total of 25% if the GF is 3/3 in Enduring Warrior + the 5/5 in the feat).
Feedback: Villain's Menace Villain's Menace casting animation takes WAY too long, but is AWESOME looking. GF's should be immune to CC while casting Villain's Menace.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2014
At the very least, give GFs more charges w/ threatening rush than GWFs, or just limit GWFs to a set number of charges and give GFs unlimited use.
As for blocking - simply keep the current mechanic, but make taking damage refill some of your guard meter.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active.
Just tested this on Preview. Taking hits from normal overworld mobs of 1400+ while blocking means that boss hits are going to be doing 2500+ THROUGH MY SHIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why even have it?!? This means that even if you buff us with a few pittance buffs, we are still going to be unnecessary in DD as we will be dying when we should be holding agro. Not to mention increased threat generation, we pull the boss and all of his adds, then die 4 seconds later while holding up our shields..... Horrible change.
At the very least, make the block meter stop decreasing at all if we are taking damage through it! Otherwise the shield becomes just a nice square decoration that is ALMOST as useful as tires on a cinder block.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Prones were not effected by tenacity which is the main reason they switched to stuns.
On the subject of buff the DPS as the answer to the GF...
They are a tank . Not every class should be a DPS class. The damage output could use a slight buff IMO but they will not and should not turn into the new GWFs. Ideally they should just be the annoying hard to kill class and the features which increase team survivability and DPS is much better than further pushing the DPS race meta nonsense.
Compared to my GWF toon the GF toon still has less survivability. IMO the new block mechanics has some flaws.
1) Stamina drains too quickly. With Shield Talent slotted it is only about five seconds. GWF's Unstoppable lasts about six seconds without having to slot anything. I suggest to let it drain more slowly.
2) Stamina refills too slowly. It takes about twelve seconds with a +11 % stamina regeneration bonus. The GWF may have much faster Unstoppable refills if he gets hit hard. I suggest to let it refill on the amount of damage taken too. Similar to the GWF's Unstoppable bar.
3) The shield can non longer be up in expectation of an incoming hit. I suggest to start stamina drain away upon the first hit.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited June 2014
With the new implementation of the block mechanics, more baseline DR is needed. (One way to implement this could be to boost AC from all equipment by a flat value)
Also consider adding something to high-end Protector Line and Iron Vanguard Feats (for example, the talent that boosts Ferocious Reaction could also boost Enduring Warrior to add some extra passive DR?), with these new changes, I can see Tactician + Sword Master becoming a forced choice for tanking.
Guarded Assault needs a complete rework or a massive buff, more than before.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
I think the stamina duration is too low at a base level. As per my post on page 1 and gcrush's reply on page 2, I initially thought 8 seconds would be great, but the actual duration (with stamina boosting feats and items applied) is less than that, which makes block quite weak even compared to the status quo.
A base Block duration of 7-8 seconds would be necessary, which can then be modified by items/feats.
Furthermore, it doesn't feel as if Stamina restoring powers actually work while Blocking. For example if I use Iron Warrior and have items boosting my stamina regeneration, having my shield up (after activating Iron Warrior) would drain it just as fast as if I didn't have these. Or maybe its just that it drains so fast that this isn't noticeable.
Broken Feature: Block -Tactician last feat Martial Mastery doesn't seem to work for the damage taken while shield is up, it is a lot less useful now -Damage taken when the shield is up seems to ignore DR, making shield only block 2/3rd of damage you would have taken instead of 4/5th as stated in patch notes
Feedback: Those kinds of bugs existed for other shield as well from the beginning of the game but they were fixed. Why introduce a new broken shield and a bunch of more bugs with it and make us wait another painfully long time for them to be fixed? Just buff the old shield's recovering time and be done with it.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
These are nerfs, clearly intended for GWF's but will affect us greatly... Jeesus could you stop trying to nerf Gwfs and instead keep Nerfing GFs, ... Like the pvp patch which was supposedly buffing us and instead found us doing less damage then ever before.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Damage taken while not blocking?
It is but we weren't taking 1/3rd of the damage when blocking before. Now if I'm losing hp I want my AP for it at least
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited June 2014
Bug: Knight's Valor (KV) Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician Knight's Valor (KV) still has the same bug that has been existing for the last 15+ months (and has been reported dozens of times in the Forum and at least 6 times by myself as an ingame "Bug Report"), where the border of the Encounter Power's icon flashes continuously and the power is unusable unless the character rezones or relogs.
Feedback: Knight's Valor (KV) Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician Please fix Knight's Valor (KV). KV has been bugged for over 15 months now and, despite one attempted fix that did not resolve the issue, the problem still exists. KV is a very useful Power to assist in holding/gaining aggro and as a means of protecting the party. Unfortunately, KV currently can 'bug out' almost continuously i.e. use it, bugs, get out of combat, relog, enter combat, bugs, exit combat etc. I have had KV bug 57 times in one Epic Pirate King run. This is not an 'out-of-the-ordinary' experience. This is extraordinarily frustrating and irritating and does have a large and negative effect on the party when the slotted Power does not work in the middle of a boss fight for example. It's not like you can just 'relog' necessarily and fix it. Swapping another Power in means you may not be specced to utilise it properly and may not be doing your job as a Tank as well as what you otherwise might be. Additionally, swapping Powers out does take time that you don't necessarily have when you have the aggro of a boss / NPCs that can kill you if you aren't blocking and potentially (more often than not) wipe the party as a result. I use KV in both PVE dungeons and questing and in PVP and it would be really helpful if this Power could finally be fixed so that it always works as intended.
Feedback: Guard Spec: Conqueror When in combat versus one solo Wolf in Icewind Dale Pass, the Guard is rapidly depleted so that approximately one third is left after blocking their cone attack. Versus multiple targets, there is no capacity to Guard against multiple individual attacks as there is not sufficient Guard remaining. In general, the duration the Guard can remain up while ACTIVELY taking damage is very similar to the original Guard system. However, due to the Guard being depleted in preparation for an attack, quite often the current system leaves the Guard facility worse off than it was previously. This essentially means that the GF is unable to Block/Guard as often/much as previous and now takes more damage in the process.
Feedback: Guard Spec: Protector Despite being fully specced to reduce Guard loss, increase Guard regeneration and maximise total Guard through Encounter Powers, equipment and Boons, in combat versus one solo Wolf in Icewind Dale Pass, the Guard is almost as rapidly depleted as with the Conqueror spec. In total, the full Guard spec provides 10% regeneration in combat, 15% from Passives, 10% from Feats and 25% more total Guard from equipment (not including Encounter Powers which are not constant). The noticeable difference in Guard longevity is very minimal and the capacity to Guard against one target's special attacks is, as stated for the Conqueror spec, less than was possible with the old system. From testing with the Indomitable Champion's set, the Guard depletes within ~6 seconds (up from ~5 seconds in Conqueror and Tactician). I found that against the one wolf it was impossible to regenerate the Guard to full between special attacks despite using Iron Warrior, Into the Fray, Enforced Threat and Tide of Iron. The end result was that as the fight progressed, over time the remaining Guard available became less until there was none. Granted, in that scenario killing the target was not my aim, yet it does serve to highlight how Guard will last on any fight with a long duration i.e. a boss fight. Similar to the Conqueror spec, when versus multiple targets, there is no capacity to Guard against multiple individual attacks as there is not sufficient Guard remaining. In general, the duration the Guard can remain up while ACTIVELY taking damage is very similar to the original Guard system albeit slightly improved. However, due to the Guard being depleted in preparation for an attack and afterwards, despite it being only a second or two each side of an attack, quite often the current system leaves the Guard facility worse off than it was previously. This essentially means that the GF is unable to Block/Guard as often/much as previous and now takes more damage in the process.
Feedback: Guard Spec: Tactician The Tactician spec has the same difficulties as the Conqueror spec listed above. When in combat versus one solo Wolf in Icewind Dale Pass, the Guard is rapidly depleted so that approximately one third is left after blocking their cone attack. Versus multiple targets, there is no capacity to Guard against multiple individual attacks as there is not sufficient Guard remaining. In general, the duration the Guard can remain up while ACTIVELY taking damage is very similar to the original Guard system. However, due to the Guard being depleted in preparation for an attack, quite often the current system leaves the Guard facility worse off than it was previously. This essentially means that the GF is unable to Block/Guard as often/much as previous and now takes more damage in the process.
Feedback: Guard Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician As I've previously mentioned in
Increase the guard recharge time slightly - doesn't have to be much, including recharge time after guard has been broken.
there are alternative methods I believe may be viable to 'fix' the Guard issues. The proposed new Guard system actually leaves the GF worse off than they have been. I'd recommend either of two options:
1. Using the new system, have Guard not begin depleting until it is attacked and with each hit increasing the rate of Guard loss. The current rate of Guard loss would need to be significantly reduced for this to be effective. If Guard is dropped, have Guard replenish itself at the proposed rate or preferably very slightly quicker. This means that a player could effectively raise their Guard, take one hit, drop it, replenish it then raise it again within, say, 5 seconds, yet the downside would be the animation etc. delays in doing so and the possibility of taking unblocked damage during this time versus the potential of a 'longer lasting' Guard.
2. Using the old/current system, increase the full Guard recharge time slightly by 2 seconds and the broken Guard recharge time by 4-5 seconds.This would mean that an almost depleted Guard (not broken) would recharge in ~4 seconds and a broken Guard in ~11-12 seconds. An 11 second wait while the Guard full replenishes after being broken is still a very long time to be taking unblocked damage.
Ideally, the overarching view of Guard, in my opinion, should be that it can last at least for one hit from a reasonable number of targets. If Enforced Threat has been increased to affect 20 targets, Guard should reasonably be able to at least last long enough to take 20 hits (one from each) before it is depleted / broken. Even half that number would be a vast improvement. Currently and as proposed with the new system, the Guard is not able to manage even 20% of this (i.e. 4 hits). Additionally, the Guard should be ready to be used again against these same number of hits after a maximum of 10 seconds (14 seconds isn't too bad if you are unlucky enough that your Guard has broken).
In general, the initial concept of the proposed Guard changes seem superficially like a good idea yet the actual way it would need to be used makes it extremely ineffectual. As has been previously stated, the proposed Guard system means that there is absolutely no facility at all to hold a Guard in preparation for an attack and, particularly in PVP, it will be of almost no benefit whatsoever against players who are smart enough to simply just wait for it to run out and / or bait the GF into wasting it. With the new system there is no facility for preparation, only the capability to react and, almost always the Guard will be used after an attack and wasted rather than being capable of actually stopping them.
The changes to the Guard animation and activation time is a very welcome change and one that I think will be a favourite of all GFs. In testing it seems to be operate a lot more fluidly now than previously and this can only be a positive. Good work!
In short, the proposed new Guard system will actually decrease GF survivability in PVE and even more so in PVP.
Feedback: Increases to Threat generation Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician Although I have not had any issues whatsoever with generating enough threat to hold and gain aggro, I believe the changes made to the existing Powers etc. are a good thing at the least - albeit not overly necessary. As a Protection specced GF of 15.2k gs with 1.7k Power, I have never had any major issues gaining and holding aggro against high damage capable CWs and GWFs of over 17k gs, against burst dps TRs with 17.5k gs or against 17.5k gs Conqueror GFs with over 13k Power. However, the changes will enable those players not able to generate sufficient threat due to a lack of skill or experience and / or a non-threat specced build to act as a Tank where they are the focus of enemy aggro. However, this does seem rather more like providing a crutch to those players so they can actually do what they need to do instead of creating a need for them to improve themselves, particularly as the changes i've seen to other classes such as the GWF and CW suggest their capacity to deal as much damage as previously has been reduced to some extent.
Feedback: Mark Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician I love all the changes! Spot on and perfect.
Feedback: Enforced Threat Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician I love the increase in number of affected targets!
Feedback: Threatening Rush Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician I was a little dubious at first of the limited charges for this At-Will but while testing it out I found that the recharge time on the charges is not really something that will have any negative effect in either PVP or PVE at all unless you are used to repeatedly spamming it in an attempt to somehow chase a fleeing PVP player down. In this case, Lunging Strike generally cools down in ~6-8 seconds and can be used intermittently while Threatening Rush's charges are recharging. Additionally, the increased facility to AoE and single target Taunt NPCs reduces the necessity for quickly moving to, and marking, mobs. So, from my perspective, a good change that does not seem to have any real negative effects outside of some limited PVP uses.
Feedback: Frontline Surge (FLS) Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician I'm not sure i understand the necessity for the change from a Prone to a Stun here. As has been mentioned previously by other people, FLS has been one of our few CC Powers. In PVP, the change from Prone to Stun will affect the GWF rotation more than it will the GF and it seems that this change has been made more as a result of the use by GWFs than GFs. Unfortunately, the change now means that taking Feats that improve Prone effects / Powers is almost completely pointless and using FLS in PVP will be almost as pointless too. Although the change does not affect PVE anywhere near as much as it does PVP, very few GFs generally use FLS in PVE at the moment anyway (unless some Conqueror specs) as it scatters NPCs when the general idea is to bunch them up tightly. Given the changes to Enforced Threat, I believe FLS will almost become a second-rate PVP Power only with these changes. In short, it is very disappointing to see FLS changed from a Prone to a Stun.
Threat: Distance based threat has been removed. Threat is now purely calculated based on Damage and Healing. Threat bonuses still calculate as normal.
I'm not too sure this is an accurate statement from my understanding. For example, can't Threat be generated by taunting and marking? That would indicate to me that Threat is not "purely calculated based on Damage and Healing". Additionally, would it not be better to have threat increase against a target that has been marked the further they are away from the GF? For example, a HR is sitting in a corner and attacks and draws aggro from a ranged NPC in another corner. The GF marks it, thereby hard taunting it and putting the GF at the top of that NPCs threat table. However, if the GF then marks another target and the first ranged NPC attacks the GF once, the mark disappears. If the HR keeps attacking that target they will eventually replace the GF at the top of the threat table. By including an increase in the threat based on how far away the marked target is from the GF, it may make it a lot harder for the target to reacquire a different target other than the GF and may allow the GF to draw the ranged NPC in to melee range.
Feedback: Constitution Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician I think the increase in the overall Hit Points of GFs is a very overdue and almost necessary occurrence. I love that GFs now have more HPs, yet I'd still like the increase to be a bit larger. When viewed against a similarly geared GWF Iron Vanguard Sentinel (or even an IV Destroyer for that matter!), the GFs HPs, DR and Deflect are put to shame. I've seen similarly geared (i.e. ~same effective GS) GWFs with 50-55k HP, 49% DR and 45% Deflect. Currently, i'm specced Protection with 35k HP (41k with new changes), 52% DR (+15% from Feats) and 33.7% Deflect. Even given the increase in HPs, GFs have far less HPs and defensive stats than GWFs, particularly if you remove Guard and Unstoppable from the equation. What I would love to see is that 2% increase to 4% instead increased to at least 6%, or better yet, increase the first tier Feat Toughness to "5/10/15%" and leave the Constitution bonus at 2%.
Feedback: Damage Mitigation Spec: Protector I would love to see a slight increase of perhaps 10-15% for fully defensive specced GFs by increasing the base rate that Armor Class affects Damage Resistance and by increasing the Feats Armor Specialisation to "10/15/20%" and Shield Defense to "2/4/6/8/10%". Additionally, I believe it would be beneficial to increase the Deflect Severity to something similar to the TRs of 75%. These changes to the GFs mitigation would increase the general survivability of GFs while they are trying to withstand the damage dealt to them after they've just pulled the aggro on 20 NPCs.
Overall, I'm really glad that changes are being considered at all to the GF, however, first and foremost, please fix Knight's Valor. Secondly, the current Guard system is not effective, efficient and decreases survivability. I'd love to see both Frontline Surge and Threatening Rush left alone as they currently are on Live and changes made to the GWF Iron Vanguard versions instead. I don't believe the increases made to threat generation are all that necessary but I don't generally have a problem with them as they have been proposed. Good work on increasing HPs and Enforced Threat targets as that is a good couple of steps in the right direction!
Please keep up the good work to make GFs a class that can be enjoyed and appreciated by all!
Feedback: Default Movement So, now the GF has the default running animation of the DCs and CWs? When I created my GF I liked the idea of a fierce, fearless and brave warrioress. Now my GF is running around like a sassy bimbo. I know, its not game breaking, its not even this much relevant to the future of the class, but srsly... Can the GF have the same default running animation of the GWF back again?
Feedback: General Powers: Guard The idea of a Stamina Block meter presented by Ayroux sounded amazing. I mean really. Problem is, how its implemented. It drains too fast, so fast that when u use Shield Slam, it makes no diference. I mean AT ALL. The meter drains continously, no matter the hits with. On live, with a monster GWF hitting my Guard with Unstoppable active, I can keep it up for the entire duration and i still have enough saved to fight afterwards. Since the Preview Guard depletes in like 7~8 secs (with my specs), overall its not good. Plus it still let damage going thru, which sometimes seems elusive, as I noticed mobs dealing almost full damage with Guard up.
Also, the Guard regen is too **** slow. So slow, it can make things really impractical, as u will run around like a dizzy duck (same as Live), hoping for a meager amount in the meter, and then it gets empty as soon u hit the activation.
Another thing I want to point out is: Whats with the sped up movement with Guard up? Is it intended? I hope not, cuz its really a silly view. The GF looks like a Formian trying a mating dance...
So, IMO, the Guard should drain more slower, like 100%. This way a GF fully specced for Guard duration could keep it up for like 15 secs, maybe.
Leanan Sidhe(not "The Dresde Files" fairy!)- NW Legit Channel Moderator
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited June 2014
Bug: Guard Contrary to what was stated by devs, guard is ignoring your baseline DR, and this means it becomes worse the better your defense get, and not the other way around.
For example, on my GF this actually makes guard do a -50% damage and not a -80%
Bug: Shield Slam It's not restoring stamina at all.
Feedback: Guard Stamina is drained too fast and with the same normal running speed the animation looks ridiculous. Even with the above mentioned bug fixed, I'm not sure if the 80% reduction is still viable. This may need to be upgraded to 100% like before.
Feedback: HP changes I was disappointed to notice how little was the impact of the Constitution Changes. I only gained 6k HP going from 39k to 45k. While this is better than nothing per se, I expected to gain much more since I went from a +34% to a +68%. Consider making this bonus stack properly with Toughness and work with gear from HP as well please.
Feedback: Overall damage mitigation With the new block system and the new threat changes, it feels like we are less "tanky" than before actually. More revamps are needed, the Block needs to stack properly with baseline damage resistance and it either needs to last longer or to completely nullify the damge.
Our baseline damage resistance needs to be buffed as well since now we can keep our shield up for a lot less than before. (except those cases where we are swormed by tons of adds)
I tested the changes with some of the daily quests and heroic encounters.
Guard What a shock !!
Quickly gone, slowly recharging. Uptime is so short that I do not see the point of guarding. When it is gone, there is nothing else to protect yourself...
80% damage reduction with shield. On live, I can take more risk like hitting instead of guarding. When my life is low, I guard to buy time and get my encounters up to get my life back with Fighter's Recovery. With this new guarding system, I should die 2 seconds later...
Stamina Powers give 15% over 8 seconds ! Enforced Threat and Into the Fray. You continue losing stamina at high speed even with the effect...
Given the time it takes to go 100% to 0, using such a power is a waste. Not only you are vulnerable, it brings nothing to improve gameplay.
Speed movement while guarding It is awesome but not done for a good reason. I think it was added to counter the negative effects of the new guard system. When testing, the first thing that popped in my head was "****, my guard meter, I just raised my shield !... Oh, I got away quickly, I am safe... for now.".
Damage Tell me if I am missing something but I can not get full when using Frontline Surge with Fighter's Recovery. I do not have the exact same stuff but I could do it before... I was thinking of getting HP to survive more and as the healing was good, it is a good choice the way I play. On preview, I have more HP but the heal is reduced (not in percentage, but in number).
I tested with Enforced Threat too. Still the same, it is only good when I crit. The only power that works fine is Aggravating Strike. Sweet, stamina is decreasing so fast.
Threat Threat is a "false" problem. I do not know why increasing threat generation so high.
With Iron Vanguard and some feats, taking all mobs is not hard. With this change, Swordmaster can perform better in this field. But the downside is that there is no change in the path, power to do the job. How I see this is that you prefer buffing threat instead of changing/improving/introducing a power that can generate threat and makes sense when choosing Swordmaster.
If you want to decrease our damages (already low) later, buffing threat is the way to go...
Threatening Rush Like said previously, an at-will with charge is not an at-will. It is clearly a nerf in mobility.
I use it to mark spawning adds mainly and close the gap when I am slowed down. Without it, you withdraw a good tool to stay near targets.
Also, the range is short. If I want to get away from red areas, I prefer using Lunging Strike.
Cost
GF usually keeps mobs away from party. I am worried I will not be able to fulfill this job with the new system.
More threat = everything on me faster, less guard = everything on me killing me faster.
With this in mind, will there be discount on injury kits ? If all you earn is wasted in kits, make them free for us please.
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I will test more, it is just my first impressions.
BUG: Guard 1. you have NO Immunity while guarding
2. sometimes you dont lose stamina while guarding(did only happen at 100% stamina)
3. the atwill that recovered guard meter while guarding doesn't recover stamina
4. you arent slowed while guarding
Feedback: Guard like many posted here, the drain is too fast or the feats increasing the regen/ decreasing consume dont work correctly
New block mechanism The new way of how blocking works is a REALY HORRIBLE idea. Completely scrap it. The way how it currently works is just fine. If you want to buff how guard works, just increase guardmeter a bit, but I am perfectly fine with how it currently is. Also scrap the increased movement while the shield is raised, because it looks ridiculous, I play a GF and not Charlie Chaplin.
Enanced Mark changes The class feat 'Enhanced Mark' was perfectly fine, no need to improve it. If you want GFs to generate more threat, just buff their general threat generation. By buffing Enhanced Mark you will only make it mandatory for GFs to use that (then overpowered) class feat. That defeats the purpose of having a choice when it comes to class feats. Class feats should be balanced, and players be encouraged to consider different combinations, otherwise it makes no sense to have several different class feats available.
Fighter's recovery Please reduce the casting time of fighter's recovery. Already I find myself triggering fighter's recovery when I still have full hp shortly before I engage several strong mobs in anticipation that I need the hp. If I would trigger it later, I would die during the casting animation, which happens sometimes (Kessel's retreat anyone?). A GWF can trigger unstoppable without beeing frozen and vulnerable for a short time. The same should apply for fighter's recovery.
Constitution providing more hp Finally a very good idea, keep that one
Threatening Rush Threatening Rush is an At-Will. And it is called an 'At-Will', because you can trigger it 'at will' and not 'when a cooldown timer has ticked down'. If Threatening Rush is a problem because of GWFs spamming it in pvp, then solve the problem at the cause and FINALLY UNDO PARAGON PATHS SWAPPING BETWEEN GF AND GWF. A GWF shouldn't get access to Iron Vanguard powers and feats, and a GF shouldn't get access to swordmaster powers and feats. I prefere having only one paragon path available as GF over having to share my paragon paths with another class and then suffer nerfs because that other class has to be balanced.
Feedback: Guard You've surely read enough feedback on why the guard meter isn't working anymore, between bugs and insane depletion rate, so, I'll just keep this short and simply say I much, much prefer the live version.
New block mechanism:
The new guard mechanic is TERRIBLE atm. There are several points that really are flawed.
1.) Stamina depletion. Insane short block time (around 5 secs with all possible blockbuffs). Even drains down when no attacks were blocked.
-Raising your shield shouldn't be a problem for a fierce warrior. If you block insane hard blows from greatswords and stuff it surely is strength sapping so after blocking attacks, it's natural that your stamina is going down.
2.) Taking damage while guarding with shield contradicts all logic. You should NOT taking any damage whatsoever while guarding with a shield.
-If you block hard blows with your shield, it will degrade eventually. So if the blockmeter is vanished (shield destroyed) i find it logical that it will take some time until the blockmeter regenerates, just make the "reload" time a bit faster.
To sum things up. The block mechanic how it is working now on live is really good. If you want to give the GF some love, please leave it how it is and make blockmeter deplete a little slower and make the reload time after shield is broken much faster. Lets say it would take 5 secs until the meter can recharge again. Make it recharge in around 3 secs and all is good. That would be a buff that really made some sense, not that stamina based shenanigans.
I really hope you will not destroy the GF into oblivion since threat generation was never an issue, it was always the damage. Just turn it on a little notch and all is fine. We oldschool GF's can't take the blame that you devs were to lazy to give that abomination of a GWF his own paragon tree.
Comments
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I'd like to throw in some suggestions, while we're at it.
Dex should grant crit rate, instead of deflection and Con should grant deflection, additional to the current stats. (makes more sense to also have the "privilege" of getting at least some crit from stats)
Leave the blocking - system as it is on live but decrease the guard depletion by 100-200% and scrap the new one entirely. Increase the cone area in which we're able to block (our flanks tend to be too open).
Speed up the animations of cleave, knight's challenge, crushing surge, griffon's wrath (it is still too slow), tide of iron. (along with the other countless, slowpoke animation skills.)
Aggravating strike should have the "stepping forward" animation cut out, because all it does is exposing our flanks to the target we initially tried to hit. (this would give us better survivability, especially in pvp)
Shield slam should have a small knockback applied, in order to create more space for us to set things up (shields tend to push/move targets if one gets hit by a bash).
Mark, should increase OUR damage, not the damage of our party (we are the ones in need of more damage and not the already hard hitting rest of the classes)
Fix the many bugs of our knight's challenge skill. (detailed description in a thread i created, link is provided on the 2nd page of this thread)
Anvil of doom should have it's double damage bonus apply at 35-40% hp. (GWF can just 1 hit mobs at that percentage anyway, aswell as other classes are able to, rendering our only real damage skill nearly useless)
Raise our weapon damage or give our shields additional weapon damage, just like off-hands for rogues do (~630. weapon damage in the current meta, really doesn't cut it).
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I could go on and on with suggestions, but i think this sums about up, what's wrong with this class.
Does this mean it will *still* prone NPCs? Will there be any secondary function added to feats that increase prone durations, so they still prvide some benefit against other players in PvP?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
YES YES YES!! Pick a few of these and do them... Problem SOLVED!
Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active.
I found that in the new Block System the stamina drains too fast, for example, before I could have my guard up in 1v1 with a GWF like for 7 seconds with the help of Shield Slam, now it is broken in 3-4 seconds even if nobody is attacking me, yes, it does regenerate faster, but 3-4 seconds is not very good for me, it should last at least twice, or 3 times more (even if you make the regeneration slower), with the current state I prefer the older system
I haven't tested other aspects, but at least I'm loving everything what I'm reading (except the block system), thanks for making changes on this class!.
Also as far as i can tell please leave FLS as it currently is on preview still prones leave it ALONE.
Also block seems to not provide cc immunity reliably so the 80% damage prevented also seems to apply to cc prevention as well a chance to live against beholder say 80%.
These are what I have experienced on the preview server as of today
My suggestions
Block:This ability has been changed in a direction which on paper looks awesome but in actual use is rather unstable with the current implementation on preview. It currently seems to have a chance to not block cc and seems tied to the fact that it blocks 80% of incoming damage and an 80% at stopping any cc ability from the looks of it so far. In pvp no matter what spec you are the other class just has to wait on us to lose our guard so they essentially remove our guard without attacking us. Please if you go down this rather nerfed block scenario make it so they actually need to damage us a certain percent(20%) of our hp before we start to lose our block stamina and increase the base time to something where it doesn't feel like we put it up and 3 seconds later its gone.
Threatening Rush:With the charges on threatening rush please revert this change designed for gwfs it is an invalid nerf based on the fact we share a paragon path with a class who never needed threatening rush in the first place. Even with the change to block we still need this ability to not be hindered as block lasts only so long(rather short). If this is pushed you better allow the gf(only the gf, stop buffing the gwf) to get a recovery bonus on this or else its barely even viable. In short this change goes against what an at will is. This at will was only meant for the gf in the first place.
The most in need capstone is the protector capstone - it doesn't really do that much compared to the sentinel capstone - destroyer is a bigger benefit than the conqueror.
attacks on your guard speed it up to a maximum of xx%
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
True. You can hold up your shield about 3 secs or so... Imagine pulling 20 mobs and getting banged after 3 secs because stamina is depleted. Really bad in PVP also, is not enough time to defend from a single enemy much less if you are being attacked bi 2 or more.
FLS is so wrong. WE DONT SPRINT and we dont DPS like other classes at least don't mess with our prone and close skills
Please listen to this person! This is the sum up of the things you should be really be working on not threat increasing useless thing, or nerfing our paragon powers.
Guard Meter - The current guard meter works perfectly fine. It's just too weak for both PvP & PvE, especially against enemies with perfect weapon enchantments. The chunks that break off are too great, and causes the GF's shield to drop way too early. If you keep the stamina guard, at least allow us to hold our shields for much longer and block 100% incoming damage. Otherwise, what's the point in the shield if we still take damage lol?
Feedback: Knee Breaker & Griffin's Wrath
These two powers have SOOO much potential, but are limited. They both are very easy to avoid, and when missed the the cool down shows no mercy. Both these powers require the same lock-on feature as the GWF's Take Down encounter, and the reduced cool down if missed.
- Griffin's Wrath has a really good stun feature, and could be compared to the Rogue's Impact Shot. However, there is one MAJOR difference. Impact Shot is a range attack, Griffin's Wrath is close quarters. People can easily escape Griffin's Wrath by simply holding 'W' to run... Griffin's Wrath stun effect should at least last 0.1 - 0.3 seconds longer so it's chain-able. Otherwise we'll just miss and be penalized with a cool down. Also, Griffin's Wrath will use unwanted charges if you press the hotkey for the encounter, then hold left-click to cleave. Also during a TR's Duelist Flurry, if hit by Griffin's Wrath, the Duelist Flurry animation should be interrupted and reset. As of right now, TR's are able to continue the combo after being stunned. Unlike Frontline Surge or Bull Charge which completely resets them. Lastly, Griffin's Wrath creates a guard delay after use.
- Knee Breaker would be wonderful if it had both a slowing & stun effect. As of right now, CW's, TR's, DC's, and HR's can just dodge while affected by Knee Breaker to get some distance from the slow moving GF. However, these very same classes are unable to dodge while stunned by as Rogue's Smoke Bomb which is AoE. If Knee Breaker had both the Rogue's stun effect and slow effect, it would be an EXCELLENT option for both PvP and PvE boss fights.
Feedback: High General
High General should do exactly as it says in it's description. If it did, that would boost DPS in dungeons (which people want...), creating a place for GF's in high end dungeons. Remove the internal 30 second cool down, so crit severity could be stacked, and refreshed every 8 seconds. By doing this, it will truly make HG a Tier 2 set. A person who dedicates his character to be a TEAM PLAYER should never be penalized with nerfs or hit caps. I would also like to point out, HG does not have the resources needed to be overpowered in PvP. GF's only use single target powers in PvP, and if they do use AoE's, they will cripple their damage capabilities (which creates a balance). Not to mention we have low critical chance to begin with, plus tenacity & tenacity gear is more popular anyways.
Feedback: Knight's Captain
Why not just adjust it to where it gives 20% power, and 60-75% defense boost? You can't go wrong with adding survivability to the entire team.
Feedback: Bull Charge
Bull Charge needs a rollback. The original Bull Charge was much more reliable, especially when it came to knocking people off of nodes.
Feedback: Guard Defects
There's a huge delay to re-guard after recovering from prones & stuns. For example; if a player was holding his assigned button to guard, and was then knocked prone or stunned. While still holding the guard button, the GF will NOT immediately guard from attacks again as soon as possible (in other words once the crowd control effect is over, you have to repress your guard button instead of the GF re-guarding automatically).
Another defect is when the GF will repeat the Threatening Rush animation if you press the guard button before the original Threatening Rush animation is done. Very annoying, and can cause players to die during the heat of battle.
Feedback: Iron Warrior Animation
GF's should be able to cancel the animation by holding guard, like we can with Knight's Valor. In the heat of the moment, the casting time can really make a life or death difference, ESPECIALLY in PvP. Example; I'm on my mount headed towards a node, and on that node there's a bad guy. Before I get to the node, I have to make sure I'm at a safe distance before casting Iron Warrior otherwise I'll be interrupted by the enemy. Once activated, I now have to walk the rest of the distance to get on the node; wasting precious time of Iron Warrior.
Feedback: Guarded Assault
Guarded Assault should reflect 15% of all blocked damage at 3/3pts, and Protector's Guarded Assault should have a feat in the Protector tree allowing it to reflect 25% of all blocked damage back to it's attacker.
Feedback: Improved Vigor Feat
Improved Vigor should be 5/10/15/20/25%
Feedback: Plate Agility Feat
Plate Agility should be 2/4/6/8/10%.
Feedback: Brawling Warrior
Brawling Warrior Feat should increase damage resistance by 3/6/9/12/15%
Feedback: Inspiring Leader Feat
Inspiring Leader should also increase the party's damage resistance by 2/4/6/8/10%, or deflect chance by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Feedback: Surging Tide Feat
Surging Tide should be 4/8/12/16/20%.
Feedback: Armor of Bahamut Feat
Armor of Bahamut should reduce all incoming damage by 30% when guard is broken.
Feedback: Take Measure Feat
Take Measure should give 40%, with a cool down of 1 minute. Because the average GF has about 29-32k HP, because 5% of 29k is only 1450 HP.
Feedback: Deflection
High deflection should come naturally to us, like crit comes naturally to CW's, TR's, HR's, GWF's, and DC's... GF's should have EASY access to 35% deflection.
Feedback: Enduring Warrior
Enduring Warrior should heal the GF for 10-20% for every kill instead of 1-3%. There should be a feat in the Conq' tree that boost it by +1-5% (with a total of 25% if the GF is 3/3 in Enduring Warrior + the 5/5 in the feat).
Feedback: Villain's Menace
Villain's Menace casting animation takes WAY too long, but is AWESOME looking. GF's should be immune to CC while casting Villain's Menace.
As for blocking - simply keep the current mechanic, but make taking damage refill some of your guard meter.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Just tested this on Preview. Taking hits from normal overworld mobs of 1400+ while blocking means that boss hits are going to be doing 2500+ THROUGH MY SHIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why even have it?!? This means that even if you buff us with a few pittance buffs, we are still going to be unnecessary in DD as we will be dying when we should be holding agro. Not to mention increased threat generation, we pull the boss and all of his adds, then die 4 seconds later while holding up our shields..... Horrible change.
At the very least, make the block meter stop decreasing at all if we are taking damage through it! Otherwise the shield becomes just a nice square decoration that is ALMOST as useful as tires on a cinder block.
+1
this is exactly how I see GF role
Compared to my GWF toon the GF toon still has less survivability. IMO the new block mechanics has some flaws.
1) Stamina drains too quickly. With Shield Talent slotted it is only about five seconds. GWF's Unstoppable lasts about six seconds without having to slot anything. I suggest to let it drain more slowly.
2) Stamina refills too slowly. It takes about twelve seconds with a +11 % stamina regeneration bonus. The GWF may have much faster Unstoppable refills if he gets hit hard. I suggest to let it refill on the amount of damage taken too. Similar to the GWF's Unstoppable bar.
3) The shield can non longer be up in expectation of an incoming hit. I suggest to start stamina drain away upon the first hit.
Also consider adding something to high-end Protector Line and Iron Vanguard Feats (for example, the talent that boosts Ferocious Reaction could also boost Enduring Warrior to add some extra passive DR?), with these new changes, I can see Tactician + Sword Master becoming a forced choice for tanking.
Guarded Assault needs a complete rework or a massive buff, more than before.
A base Block duration of 7-8 seconds would be necessary, which can then be modified by items/feats.
Furthermore, it doesn't feel as if Stamina restoring powers actually work while Blocking. For example if I use Iron Warrior and have items boosting my stamina regeneration, having my shield up (after activating Iron Warrior) would drain it just as fast as if I didn't have these. Or maybe its just that it drains so fast that this isn't noticeable.
Broken Feature: Block
-Tactician last feat Martial Mastery doesn't seem to work for the damage taken while shield is up, it is a lot less useful now
-Damage taken when the shield is up seems to ignore DR, making shield only block 2/3rd of damage you would have taken instead of 4/5th as stated in patch notes
Feedback:
Those kinds of bugs existed for other shield as well from the beginning of the game but they were fixed. Why introduce a new broken shield and a bunch of more bugs with it and make us wait another painfully long time for them to be fixed? Just buff the old shield's recovering time and be done with it.
Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Damage taken while not blocking?
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.
These are nerfs, clearly intended for GWF's but will affect us greatly... Jeesus could you stop trying to nerf Gwfs and instead keep Nerfing GFs, ... Like the pvp patch which was supposedly buffing us and instead found us doing less damage then ever before.
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
Knight's Valor (KV) still has the same bug that has been existing for the last 15+ months (and has been reported dozens of times in the Forum and at least 6 times by myself as an ingame "Bug Report"), where the border of the Encounter Power's icon flashes continuously and the power is unusable unless the character rezones or relogs.
Feedback: Knight's Valor (KV)
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
Please fix Knight's Valor (KV). KV has been bugged for over 15 months now and, despite one attempted fix that did not resolve the issue, the problem still exists. KV is a very useful Power to assist in holding/gaining aggro and as a means of protecting the party. Unfortunately, KV currently can 'bug out' almost continuously i.e. use it, bugs, get out of combat, relog, enter combat, bugs, exit combat etc. I have had KV bug 57 times in one Epic Pirate King run. This is not an 'out-of-the-ordinary' experience. This is extraordinarily frustrating and irritating and does have a large and negative effect on the party when the slotted Power does not work in the middle of a boss fight for example. It's not like you can just 'relog' necessarily and fix it. Swapping another Power in means you may not be specced to utilise it properly and may not be doing your job as a Tank as well as what you otherwise might be. Additionally, swapping Powers out does take time that you don't necessarily have when you have the aggro of a boss / NPCs that can kill you if you aren't blocking and potentially (more often than not) wipe the party as a result. I use KV in both PVE dungeons and questing and in PVP and it would be really helpful if this Power could finally be fixed so that it always works as intended.
Feedback: Guard
Spec: Conqueror
When in combat versus one solo Wolf in Icewind Dale Pass, the Guard is rapidly depleted so that approximately one third is left after blocking their cone attack. Versus multiple targets, there is no capacity to Guard against multiple individual attacks as there is not sufficient Guard remaining. In general, the duration the Guard can remain up while ACTIVELY taking damage is very similar to the original Guard system. However, due to the Guard being depleted in preparation for an attack, quite often the current system leaves the Guard facility worse off than it was previously. This essentially means that the GF is unable to Block/Guard as often/much as previous and now takes more damage in the process.
Feedback: Guard
Spec: Protector
Despite being fully specced to reduce Guard loss, increase Guard regeneration and maximise total Guard through Encounter Powers, equipment and Boons, in combat versus one solo Wolf in Icewind Dale Pass, the Guard is almost as rapidly depleted as with the Conqueror spec. In total, the full Guard spec provides 10% regeneration in combat, 15% from Passives, 10% from Feats and 25% more total Guard from equipment (not including Encounter Powers which are not constant). The noticeable difference in Guard longevity is very minimal and the capacity to Guard against one target's special attacks is, as stated for the Conqueror spec, less than was possible with the old system. From testing with the Indomitable Champion's set, the Guard depletes within ~6 seconds (up from ~5 seconds in Conqueror and Tactician). I found that against the one wolf it was impossible to regenerate the Guard to full between special attacks despite using Iron Warrior, Into the Fray, Enforced Threat and Tide of Iron. The end result was that as the fight progressed, over time the remaining Guard available became less until there was none. Granted, in that scenario killing the target was not my aim, yet it does serve to highlight how Guard will last on any fight with a long duration i.e. a boss fight. Similar to the Conqueror spec, when versus multiple targets, there is no capacity to Guard against multiple individual attacks as there is not sufficient Guard remaining. In general, the duration the Guard can remain up while ACTIVELY taking damage is very similar to the original Guard system albeit slightly improved. However, due to the Guard being depleted in preparation for an attack and afterwards, despite it being only a second or two each side of an attack, quite often the current system leaves the Guard facility worse off than it was previously. This essentially means that the GF is unable to Block/Guard as often/much as previous and now takes more damage in the process.
Feedback: Guard
Spec: Tactician
The Tactician spec has the same difficulties as the Conqueror spec listed above. When in combat versus one solo Wolf in Icewind Dale Pass, the Guard is rapidly depleted so that approximately one third is left after blocking their cone attack. Versus multiple targets, there is no capacity to Guard against multiple individual attacks as there is not sufficient Guard remaining. In general, the duration the Guard can remain up while ACTIVELY taking damage is very similar to the original Guard system. However, due to the Guard being depleted in preparation for an attack, quite often the current system leaves the Guard facility worse off than it was previously. This essentially means that the GF is unable to Block/Guard as often/much as previous and now takes more damage in the process.
Feedback: Guard
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
As I've previously mentioned in there are alternative methods I believe may be viable to 'fix' the Guard issues. The proposed new Guard system actually leaves the GF worse off than they have been. I'd recommend either of two options:
1. Using the new system, have Guard not begin depleting until it is attacked and with each hit increasing the rate of Guard loss. The current rate of Guard loss would need to be significantly reduced for this to be effective. If Guard is dropped, have Guard replenish itself at the proposed rate or preferably very slightly quicker. This means that a player could effectively raise their Guard, take one hit, drop it, replenish it then raise it again within, say, 5 seconds, yet the downside would be the animation etc. delays in doing so and the possibility of taking unblocked damage during this time versus the potential of a 'longer lasting' Guard.
2. Using the old/current system, increase the full Guard recharge time slightly by 2 seconds and the broken Guard recharge time by 4-5 seconds.This would mean that an almost depleted Guard (not broken) would recharge in ~4 seconds and a broken Guard in ~11-12 seconds. An 11 second wait while the Guard full replenishes after being broken is still a very long time to be taking unblocked damage.
Ideally, the overarching view of Guard, in my opinion, should be that it can last at least for one hit from a reasonable number of targets. If Enforced Threat has been increased to affect 20 targets, Guard should reasonably be able to at least last long enough to take 20 hits (one from each) before it is depleted / broken. Even half that number would be a vast improvement. Currently and as proposed with the new system, the Guard is not able to manage even 20% of this (i.e. 4 hits). Additionally, the Guard should be ready to be used again against these same number of hits after a maximum of 10 seconds (14 seconds isn't too bad if you are unlucky enough that your Guard has broken).
In general, the initial concept of the proposed Guard changes seem superficially like a good idea yet the actual way it would need to be used makes it extremely ineffectual. As has been previously stated, the proposed Guard system means that there is absolutely no facility at all to hold a Guard in preparation for an attack and, particularly in PVP, it will be of almost no benefit whatsoever against players who are smart enough to simply just wait for it to run out and / or bait the GF into wasting it. With the new system there is no facility for preparation, only the capability to react and, almost always the Guard will be used after an attack and wasted rather than being capable of actually stopping them.
The changes to the Guard animation and activation time is a very welcome change and one that I think will be a favourite of all GFs. In testing it seems to be operate a lot more fluidly now than previously and this can only be a positive. Good work!
In short, the proposed new Guard system will actually decrease GF survivability in PVE and even more so in PVP.
Feedback: Increases to Threat generation
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
Although I have not had any issues whatsoever with generating enough threat to hold and gain aggro, I believe the changes made to the existing Powers etc. are a good thing at the least - albeit not overly necessary. As a Protection specced GF of 15.2k gs with 1.7k Power, I have never had any major issues gaining and holding aggro against high damage capable CWs and GWFs of over 17k gs, against burst dps TRs with 17.5k gs or against 17.5k gs Conqueror GFs with over 13k Power. However, the changes will enable those players not able to generate sufficient threat due to a lack of skill or experience and / or a non-threat specced build to act as a Tank where they are the focus of enemy aggro. However, this does seem rather more like providing a crutch to those players so they can actually do what they need to do instead of creating a need for them to improve themselves, particularly as the changes i've seen to other classes such as the GWF and CW suggest their capacity to deal as much damage as previously has been reduced to some extent.
Feedback: Mark
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
I love all the changes! Spot on and perfect.
Feedback: Enforced Threat
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
I love the increase in number of affected targets!
Feedback: Threatening Rush
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
I was a little dubious at first of the limited charges for this At-Will but while testing it out I found that the recharge time on the charges is not really something that will have any negative effect in either PVP or PVE at all unless you are used to repeatedly spamming it in an attempt to somehow chase a fleeing PVP player down. In this case, Lunging Strike generally cools down in ~6-8 seconds and can be used intermittently while Threatening Rush's charges are recharging. Additionally, the increased facility to AoE and single target Taunt NPCs reduces the necessity for quickly moving to, and marking, mobs. So, from my perspective, a good change that does not seem to have any real negative effects outside of some limited PVP uses.
Feedback: Frontline Surge (FLS)
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
I'm not sure i understand the necessity for the change from a Prone to a Stun here. As has been mentioned previously by other people, FLS has been one of our few CC Powers. In PVP, the change from Prone to Stun will affect the GWF rotation more than it will the GF and it seems that this change has been made more as a result of the use by GWFs than GFs. Unfortunately, the change now means that taking Feats that improve Prone effects / Powers is almost completely pointless and using FLS in PVP will be almost as pointless too. Although the change does not affect PVE anywhere near as much as it does PVP, very few GFs generally use FLS in PVE at the moment anyway (unless some Conqueror specs) as it scatters NPCs when the general idea is to bunch them up tightly. Given the changes to Enforced Threat, I believe FLS will almost become a second-rate PVP Power only with these changes. In short, it is very disappointing to see FLS changed from a Prone to a Stun.
Feedback: Threat
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
I'm not too sure this is an accurate statement from my understanding. For example, can't Threat be generated by taunting and marking? That would indicate to me that Threat is not "purely calculated based on Damage and Healing". Additionally, would it not be better to have threat increase against a target that has been marked the further they are away from the GF? For example, a HR is sitting in a corner and attacks and draws aggro from a ranged NPC in another corner. The GF marks it, thereby hard taunting it and putting the GF at the top of that NPCs threat table. However, if the GF then marks another target and the first ranged NPC attacks the GF once, the mark disappears. If the HR keeps attacking that target they will eventually replace the GF at the top of the threat table. By including an increase in the threat based on how far away the marked target is from the GF, it may make it a lot harder for the target to reacquire a different target other than the GF and may allow the GF to draw the ranged NPC in to melee range.
Feedback: Constitution
Spec: Conqueror, Protector & Tactician
I think the increase in the overall Hit Points of GFs is a very overdue and almost necessary occurrence. I love that GFs now have more HPs, yet I'd still like the increase to be a bit larger. When viewed against a similarly geared GWF Iron Vanguard Sentinel (or even an IV Destroyer for that matter!), the GFs HPs, DR and Deflect are put to shame. I've seen similarly geared (i.e. ~same effective GS) GWFs with 50-55k HP, 49% DR and 45% Deflect. Currently, i'm specced Protection with 35k HP (41k with new changes), 52% DR (+15% from Feats) and 33.7% Deflect. Even given the increase in HPs, GFs have far less HPs and defensive stats than GWFs, particularly if you remove Guard and Unstoppable from the equation. What I would love to see is that 2% increase to 4% instead increased to at least 6%, or better yet, increase the first tier Feat Toughness to "5/10/15%" and leave the Constitution bonus at 2%.
Feedback: Damage Mitigation
Spec: Protector
I would love to see a slight increase of perhaps 10-15% for fully defensive specced GFs by increasing the base rate that Armor Class affects Damage Resistance and by increasing the Feats Armor Specialisation to "10/15/20%" and Shield Defense to "2/4/6/8/10%". Additionally, I believe it would be beneficial to increase the Deflect Severity to something similar to the TRs of 75%. These changes to the GFs mitigation would increase the general survivability of GFs while they are trying to withstand the damage dealt to them after they've just pulled the aggro on 20 NPCs.
Overall, I'm really glad that changes are being considered at all to the GF, however, first and foremost, please fix Knight's Valor. Secondly, the current Guard system is not effective, efficient and decreases survivability. I'd love to see both Frontline Surge and Threatening Rush left alone as they currently are on Live and changes made to the GWF Iron Vanguard versions instead. I don't believe the increases made to threat generation are all that necessary but I don't generally have a problem with them as they have been proposed. Good work on increasing HPs and Enforced Threat targets as that is a good couple of steps in the right direction!
Please keep up the good work to make GFs a class that can be enjoyed and appreciated by all!
So, now the GF has the default running animation of the DCs and CWs? When I created my GF I liked the idea of a fierce, fearless and brave warrioress. Now my GF is running around like a sassy bimbo. I know, its not game breaking, its not even this much relevant to the future of the class, but srsly... Can the GF have the same default running animation of the GWF back again?
Feedback: General Powers: Guard
The idea of a Stamina Block meter presented by Ayroux sounded amazing. I mean really. Problem is, how its implemented. It drains too fast, so fast that when u use Shield Slam, it makes no diference. I mean AT ALL. The meter drains continously, no matter the hits with. On live, with a monster GWF hitting my Guard with Unstoppable active, I can keep it up for the entire duration and i still have enough saved to fight afterwards. Since the Preview Guard depletes in like 7~8 secs (with my specs), overall its not good. Plus it still let damage going thru, which sometimes seems elusive, as I noticed mobs dealing almost full damage with Guard up.
Also, the Guard regen is too **** slow. So slow, it can make things really impractical, as u will run around like a dizzy duck (same as Live), hoping for a meager amount in the meter, and then it gets empty as soon u hit the activation.
Another thing I want to point out is: Whats with the sped up movement with Guard up? Is it intended? I hope not, cuz its really a silly view. The GF looks like a Formian trying a mating dance...
So, IMO, the Guard should drain more slower, like 100%. This way a GF fully specced for Guard duration could keep it up for like 15 secs, maybe.
Contrary to what was stated by devs, guard is ignoring your baseline DR, and this means it becomes worse the better your defense get, and not the other way around.
For example, on my GF this actually makes guard do a -50% damage and not a -80%
Bug: Shield Slam
It's not restoring stamina at all.
Feedback: Guard
Stamina is drained too fast and with the same normal running speed the animation looks ridiculous. Even with the above mentioned bug fixed, I'm not sure if the 80% reduction is still viable. This may need to be upgraded to 100% like before.
Feedback: HP changes
I was disappointed to notice how little was the impact of the Constitution Changes. I only gained 6k HP going from 39k to 45k. While this is better than nothing per se, I expected to gain much more since I went from a +34% to a +68%. Consider making this bonus stack properly with Toughness and work with gear from HP as well please.
Feedback: Overall damage mitigation
With the new block system and the new threat changes, it feels like we are less "tanky" than before actually. More revamps are needed, the Block needs to stack properly with baseline damage resistance and it either needs to last longer or to completely nullify the damge.
Our baseline damage resistance needs to be buffed as well since now we can keep our shield up for a lot less than before. (except those cases where we are swormed by tons of adds)
Guard
What a shock !!
Quickly gone, slowly recharging. Uptime is so short that I do not see the point of guarding. When it is gone, there is nothing else to protect yourself...
80% damage reduction with shield. On live, I can take more risk like hitting instead of guarding. When my life is low, I guard to buy time and get my encounters up to get my life back with Fighter's Recovery. With this new guarding system, I should die 2 seconds later...
Stamina
Powers give 15% over 8 seconds ! Enforced Threat and Into the Fray. You continue losing stamina at high speed even with the effect...
Given the time it takes to go 100% to 0, using such a power is a waste. Not only you are vulnerable, it brings nothing to improve gameplay.
Speed movement while guarding
It is awesome but not done for a good reason. I think it was added to counter the negative effects of the new guard system. When testing, the first thing that popped in my head was "****, my guard meter, I just raised my shield !... Oh, I got away quickly, I am safe... for now.".
Damage
Tell me if I am missing something but I can not get full when using Frontline Surge with Fighter's Recovery. I do not have the exact same stuff but I could do it before... I was thinking of getting HP to survive more and as the healing was good, it is a good choice the way I play. On preview, I have more HP but the heal is reduced (not in percentage, but in number).
I tested with Enforced Threat too. Still the same, it is only good when I crit. The only power that works fine is Aggravating Strike. Sweet, stamina is decreasing so fast.
Threat
Threat is a "false" problem. I do not know why increasing threat generation so high.
With Iron Vanguard and some feats, taking all mobs is not hard. With this change, Swordmaster can perform better in this field. But the downside is that there is no change in the path, power to do the job. How I see this is that you prefer buffing threat instead of changing/improving/introducing a power that can generate threat and makes sense when choosing Swordmaster.
If you want to decrease our damages (already low) later, buffing threat is the way to go...
Threatening Rush
Like said previously, an at-will with charge is not an at-will. It is clearly a nerf in mobility.
I use it to mark spawning adds mainly and close the gap when I am slowed down. Without it, you withdraw a good tool to stay near targets.
Also, the range is short. If I want to get away from red areas, I prefer using Lunging Strike.
Cost
GF usually keeps mobs away from party. I am worried I will not be able to fulfill this job with the new system.
More threat = everything on me faster, less guard = everything on me killing me faster.
With this in mind, will there be discount on injury kits ? If all you earn is wasted in kits, make them free for us please.
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I will test more, it is just my first impressions.
1. you have NO Immunity while guarding
2. sometimes you dont lose stamina while guarding(did only happen at 100% stamina)
3. the atwill that recovered guard meter while guarding doesn't recover stamina
4. you arent slowed while guarding
Feedback: Guard
like many posted here, the drain is too fast or the feats increasing the regen/ decreasing consume dont work correctly
New block mechanism
The new way of how blocking works is a REALY HORRIBLE idea. Completely scrap it. The way how it currently works is just fine. If you want to buff how guard works, just increase guardmeter a bit, but I am perfectly fine with how it currently is. Also scrap the increased movement while the shield is raised, because it looks ridiculous, I play a GF and not Charlie Chaplin.
Enanced Mark changes
The class feat 'Enhanced Mark' was perfectly fine, no need to improve it. If you want GFs to generate more threat, just buff their general threat generation. By buffing Enhanced Mark you will only make it mandatory for GFs to use that (then overpowered) class feat. That defeats the purpose of having a choice when it comes to class feats. Class feats should be balanced, and players be encouraged to consider different combinations, otherwise it makes no sense to have several different class feats available.
Fighter's recovery
Please reduce the casting time of fighter's recovery. Already I find myself triggering fighter's recovery when I still have full hp shortly before I engage several strong mobs in anticipation that I need the hp. If I would trigger it later, I would die during the casting animation, which happens sometimes (Kessel's retreat anyone?). A GWF can trigger unstoppable without beeing frozen and vulnerable for a short time. The same should apply for fighter's recovery.
Constitution providing more hp
Finally a very good idea, keep that one
Threatening Rush
Threatening Rush is an At-Will. And it is called an 'At-Will', because you can trigger it 'at will' and not 'when a cooldown timer has ticked down'. If Threatening Rush is a problem because of GWFs spamming it in pvp, then solve the problem at the cause and FINALLY UNDO PARAGON PATHS SWAPPING BETWEEN GF AND GWF. A GWF shouldn't get access to Iron Vanguard powers and feats, and a GF shouldn't get access to swordmaster powers and feats. I prefere having only one paragon path available as GF over having to share my paragon paths with another class and then suffer nerfs because that other class has to be balanced.
You've surely read enough feedback on why the guard meter isn't working anymore, between bugs and insane depletion rate, so, I'll just keep this short and simply say I much, much prefer the live version.
I'm also on board with this. If you (the developers) have ever really played a GF then you will know just how true this is.
New block mechanism:
The new guard mechanic is TERRIBLE atm. There are several points that really are flawed.
1.) Stamina depletion. Insane short block time (around 5 secs with all possible blockbuffs). Even drains down when no attacks were blocked.
-Raising your shield shouldn't be a problem for a fierce warrior. If you block insane hard blows from greatswords and stuff it surely is strength sapping so after blocking attacks, it's natural that your stamina is going down.
2.) Taking damage while guarding with shield contradicts all logic. You should NOT taking any damage whatsoever while guarding with a shield.
-If you block hard blows with your shield, it will degrade eventually. So if the blockmeter is vanished (shield destroyed) i find it logical that it will take some time until the blockmeter regenerates, just make the "reload" time a bit faster.
To sum things up. The block mechanic how it is working now on live is really good. If you want to give the GF some love, please leave it how it is and make blockmeter deplete a little slower and make the reload time after shield is broken much faster. Lets say it would take 5 secs until the meter can recharge again. Make it recharge in around 3 secs and all is good. That would be a buff that really made some sense, not that stamina based shenanigans.
I really hope you will not destroy the GF into oblivion since threat generation was never an issue, it was always the damage. Just turn it on a little notch and all is fine. We oldschool GF's can't take the blame that you devs were to lazy to give that abomination of a GWF his own paragon tree.
Thanks for reading....a loyal GF