gennarovaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2014
Feedback: Mage ( general )
Arcane Singularity: I think it has to affect on 15-16 targets, but with 40-50% lover damage.
Than , too much nerf on CW. Lots of people will quit after this patch.
I don't use a CW, but without cw we can't do lots of dungeon.
With this nerfs nothing will change.
Party will be formed by 3 cw with or without this nerf.
Dungeons are the problem, not the CW.
For me, CW has to be nerfed on PVP. I'm a ranger and they kill me with a rotation. Nerf them only in PVP and not in PVE.
If you nerf the DPS of mage by 60%, all will be useless.
As i say first: Party will be formed by 3 cw ( minimum ) with or without this nerf.
So, why nerf it? In this case, with this nerf, this game will lose only about 30% of players. If you want it, you are on a good street.
I'm sorry for bad english!
BUG - Entangle and Repel: When you entangling grasp someone, and while they are still in the air, there is still the ability to deflect a push by repel
i just tested this, after about 20 minutes, roughly 40% of the repel pushes were deflected
Don't waste my time.
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tagarisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited June 2014
According to ACT my DPS went down from about 12,000/sec to 4,000/sec when straying around solo in Icewind pass for 15 minutes, with the same feats, powers and the same skill rotation. Highest damages before were above 50,000 for me, now it's around 20,000. The biggest nerv was most likely that I don't have nearly 70% crit uptime and 90% combat advantage uptime anymore. I realize nerving the CW is reasonable, but the way this patch reduces the damage seems very overdone. As it stands now my damage has been reduced by two thirds, this would probably improve a little if I would adapt my feats and powers to the new situation, but the damage reduction would still be huge. If the devs feel that this is the place were the CW class belongs damage wise then there's most likely nothing I can do to change that, but I feel like we should get some more control opportunities to compensate for that and stay usefull in groups instead of reducing the control aspect, too.
Due to the longer cooldowns and longer charge times the fights suddenly also felt a lot slower and much less action-packed. This is probably more important to me in terms of having fun with the game than the actual numbers.
Not gonna lie, oppresser pvp CW is gonna be a bit on the op side. Went 1v1 with a few guild members and I could keep them frozen about 90% of the time. Having chill stack up WHILE they are in frozen status is a very powerful buff to CW pvp.
As for the PvE nerfs, not too worried. CW will always have a spot in a party. Losing mitigation from CoI AND having its damage decreased seems a bit off. One or the other would of been enough, with both nerfs the skill is pointless to slot. Everything else i can live with.
Okay so I thought I'd chip in here especially since I've been playing a MoF Oppressor CW since mod 2 so I can feel the changes most poignantly. I will only comment on points I feel relevant. For Epic PvE (mod 2/3) I almost always run Fanning the Flame on Tab, with Icy Terrain, Shard and Steal Time, so these will have extended comment. For general pve, I swap out FtF for Entangling Force in order to group the weak mobs together for nukes.
I'm not a big pvper, so I will refrain from commenting on that part of gameplay.
Powers
Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2). I found this so notably slower that I started to use Chilling Cloud instead.
Scorching Burst: This power now benefits more from being charged. The bonus from charging has been improved by roughly 50%. Extra damage is nice, but it still remains as clumsy to use as ever. Any chance you can make it auto fire when it reaches full charge, instead of having to release it?
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds). This is almost unnoticeable, but the faster chill stacking soon shows itself and is nice.
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%. A useful damage buff to make up for damage lost for Shard.
Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds). Slightly noticeable, but a welcome boost.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%. This is fair enough given the amount of damage it was doing before. The initial push of Shard ALWAYS triggers controlled momentum, even if there are no enemies present. Is this intentional?
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%. That final blast has now lost it's sting, but this spell is still worth having
Addendum: Shard has a really glitched animation on preview at the moment.
Fanning the Flame: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .6 seconds). This change is so very noticeable it is not funny. From start to finish, the entire casting animation takes about 3 seconds, during which you are completely rooted to the spot and cannot move, dodge etc. While I much preferred the fast burst it was before, this new time is too long. Perhaps 1 sec would be better?
Fanning the Flame: This power has had its recharge time increased to 22 seconds (up from 15 seconds). I didn't really notice this increase in duration to be honest, but it's a tolerable change given the power and damage of this spell both in 1v1 and AoE(tab) situations.
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second). I find myself using Oppresive Force more these days, but I suppose if you want to avoid those CW singularity clumps of death, this was half the means so doing.
Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15). The other half of reducing the effectiveness of clumps of AoE death. But as an MoF I preferred smaller groups anyway so this is no major change for me.
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%. Fine, it still occupies my other daily slot regardless.
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds). Barely noticeable outside of pvp.
Furious Immolation: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 26%. I always considered this daily as weaker than the others unless combined with Twisting Immolation (see below), so this damage boost is welcome.
Feats: Oppressor
Bitter Cold: *REWORK* Targets take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack. This is an excellent team buff and only boosts my CW's team-oriented focus.
Twisting Immolation (Paragon: Master of Flame): This feat now dazes targets for .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 seconds (up from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second(s)).
>>>>>This feat has been bugged since the changes to Furious Immolation in Mod 3. The daze effect has not fired since mod 3 came into effect, and that is still the case now on preview. Therefore the duration and effectiveness of this daze cannot be tested at this time.<<<<<
Cold Infusion: *REWORK* Foes deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage for 10 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack. I have not taken this as a feat so I can't comment.
Glacial Movement: Ray of Frost has a 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) chance to apply an additional stack of Chill. This almost seems like an OP rework, given the permafreezing capability even in pvp. I would suggest to lower this to 7.5% per point (to 37.5% chance in total with 5 points)
Alacrity: *REWORK* When you deal damage to foes affected by Chill you have a chance to reduce the cooldown on Icy Terrain and Entangling Force by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s). I need to study this feat further to determine some issues. To be updated.
Controlled Momentum: *REWORK* After using a Control power nearby allies deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack. Another excellent team buff. See above under my comments for Shard as to whether it should fire from pushing Shard with no enemies present.
Shatter Strike: *REWORK* When you freeze a target they are afflicted by Shattered for 10 seconds. Shattered foes have a chance when taking damage to be stunned for 5 seconds (1 second on players) and take up to 5% of their Max HP in damage (max 300% weapon damage). This effect consumes Shatter. Additionally, your control powers deal 100% of your weapon damage against control immune targets and Chill lasts 2.5 seconds longer. This is an excellent, if slightly overpowered, rework for the Oppressor Capstone. I was able to complete a major encounter using this (along with another CW Oppressor). All the mobs were frozen/stunned 95% of the time, then we just had to facetank the boss for a bit. The damage burst to Control immune mobs is very nice too.I think the stun time should be reduced to 3 seconds at least.
I will update this post soon when I have a bit more time.
I just tried out the new Oppressor stuff, and I could easily solo the corrupted wolf major (I haven't tried it on my main game with my thauma build yet, though) and could kill any 5-6 enemy lvl 62 mob just by keeping them perma frozen/stunned/prone.
I was using icy terrain in tab, steal time, sudden storm (have the feat that adds 5 stacks of chill) and shard.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
As for the feats, I will have to test them. But there's one thing I can say for sure: overall, the changes are terrible when it comes to PvP. And all my comments ignore the Eye of the Storm change. As someone who enjoys mainly PvP a wizard/sorcerer/any spell class, I do not see myself able to create a viable Neverwinter CW build with that change.
Someone has mentioned it before: why do you keep breaking everything, always going way over the top? Just fix what's necessary. 95 % of all the imbalances in this game would be gone if you just:
- Nerfed the High Vizier set.
- Nerfed Steal Time.
- Nerfed Sudden Storm
- Nerfed Shard of Endless Avalanche (the non-spell mastery version of it only or put a MAX TARGET CAP OF 2/3!).
(The OP PvE CW problems would be gone here!)
- Made HR sets and powers obey Healing Depression.
- Fixed Roar.
- Nerfed permastealth TRs.
- Buffed TR single target damage.
- And the GF buffs you worked out.
That's it. It would be that easy! Instead of doing it like this, you decide to bring out a completely new game that will obviously not be balanced. All builds CWs worked on since beta will be destroyed, leaving CW in the worst spot for PvP, even a much worse spot than GFs were in all these months since Tenacity.
Agree almost with the whole post, why nerfing the damage so much and SLOOOW every single PVP encounter when you could just nerf the damage a little and put a max. target limit on all the aoe spells? (making them awful in those dungeon with billions of adds every corner). Some of those patch notes look to me like a straight up PVP NERF, some single target changes are unexplainable since they don't interfere with PVE at all .
I played on preview several hours and those changes slow the gameplay and the encounter rotations so much it's not even funny.
As always you guys totally ignore the simple nerfs and adjustment that your community has been asking for the last 6 months and obviously haven't played a single pvp match in the last 3.
Since you created a pvp leaderboard a good idea would be to just take feedback in game from some of the players with a lot of matches in the first 2-3 pages instead of the forum since it's really hard to have a decent discussion here or comunicate properly.
Virus, Enemy Team.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
I am totally against any form of target cap for AOE. AOE is meant to affect all targets in the given area....
IMO the only two things which could be toned down is: 1) the proc of EotS 2) the damage of shard explosion (but only slightly!!). Nothing else.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
I mostly agree with the CW changes, but I think the new target cap for singularity is just too much. Clearly the dps needs to be toned down, but singularity is the top control ability in this game. I understand GFs will now also take aggro so it's another form of 'control', but this change will make some people think stacking CWs is still the way to go. I say, remove all damage done from singularity but also remove the target cap. Let it catch everything on sight, but not hurt it. Let the other dps classes do that. Problem solved
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
I genuinely suggest that you reconsider the change.
Currently, with Arcane Singularity's target limit being 15, rainbow party, which has only 1 CW, is viable in epic dungeons. Reducing its capability of gathering mobs can only force players to stack more CWs in order to make up for the nerf. Please reconsider. Don't kill rainbow party.
2 days now I keep hearing in global chat people saying that module 4 will destroy cws. Got curious, since imo if cws are destroyed, a lot of instances like cn, tos and a lot of others will become impossible to do, at least for average geared people looking to update gear. Idon't pvp btw,so can say only about instances.
Checked on test realm, have char with 13.9k gs(+g.vorpal + stone). With good gear stuff is a little slower, but on solo quests it's ok, that's in Sharandar, idk how it will look in icewind dale, probably not fun. Can't test the important stuff, coz there is no one on queue for vt, mc, cn or any other of the places worth testing it seems. Not even in the skirmish queue.
About feedback... I can write a lot, but seeing in one topic more or less all our control, aoe and even single target skills nerfed, makes it hard to give any feedback, except sayin the same the guys in global say - it will destroy the class, but that part is clear at this point.
So if we lose aoe, but we get more control, ok, we are control add class after all, we can manage. Lose control but gain aoe, ok we can manage, will kill adds before they can become too big a problem. However on this changes seems to lose control and aoe here. Also we lose single target dps, cws never had good single target dps(some instances like vt, mc and fh last bosses need single target skills), so nerfing our single target dps too, is also a good idea i guess. After all have to be clear this isn't balanced change, it's just global nerfing of the whole class even at the points he was weak to begin with.
If it was balanced update, some stuff nerfed, some improved we could talk about how different changes effect the gameplay, but when we have all our skills nerfed more or less, there is no need of feedback, of course it will be slower, less dmg, even less single target damage, what is there to say?And of course most cws will be against it, I doubt most other classes will be for it too, since in instances now they will have to deal with the extra adds our singu can't handle...
I think nerfing cws that much will be bad for all in the long run, but we will see...
I went Oppressor aaaaand.... where's that increased control that can help the party?
-Severe Reaction: spreads enemies and that doesn't help anyone (maybe in PvP)
-Bitter Cold: more dps for control tree?
-Brisk Transport: so run faster because....?
-Twisting Immolation: great one, FI with it is almost as good as Oppresive Force in terms of control and better with gathering mobs in one place
-Cold Infusion: errrr... I'm confused with this one, does it work as long as chill is applied (so basically each 10 seconds when player applies chill its refreshed) or it works only with first stack?
-Glacial Movement: So with all adds around I can only apply additional stack of chill with ray of frost? Guess this one is for PvP mainly
-Alacrity: soooo... how much "chance" do I have here? (not to mention bonus CD it gives which is poor in terms of time and powers affected)
-Controlled Momentum: more dps for my party.... yaaaaaaay.... ok sarcasm off, one thing needs to be cleared here: Which are control powers exactly?
-Shatter Strike: greatest change of all... (no sarcasm in here actually, I love this one)
With 9 feats from "control" feat tree only 2 are actually useful control buffs for PvE; one is PvP control feat (single target), three are self buffs (stamina regen, speed buff, repel attackers, reduced cooldowns) and three enemy debuffs, party buffs (damage de/buffs)...
Soooo... from 9 feats I really want only 2...
I just did a hour quickly trying stuff out and I'm not very keen on these changes , no doubt CW had to have a minor damage reduction but this is insane ,its like two thirds of my damage has gone , why can't the developers use the same system as Guild wars and separate skills and paragon paths for pvp and pve completely? no matter what they do they will never manage to balance the game while they are trying to balance skills and paragon paths that have the same effects in both pvp and pve .The oppressor line might be good for pvp now but what use is that in pve ?
I just hope we have plenty of people testing this stuff so hopefully we can get them to rollback some of these changes slightly otherwise we will be stuck with them for months , we all know how slow they are to act and change stuff once it goes live.
Hi all, i have tried the new cw changes on preview and these are a few observations i'd like to share with you. First of all the change of casting and cooldown times for spells has led to some choppy animations and response delay. It was especially annoying that,after casting a spell, my toon would not move for a second or two, no matter what,essentially becoming a sitting duck. 2) Eye of the storm cooldown of 90 secs,along with some other nerfs,has led it becoming irrelevant and obsolete. Either reduce the cooldown or increase duration,when it procs. 3) In the limited amount of time that i've played i noticed that the rimifire effect was refreshed by Coi.This was an old bug that seems to have reemerged. Further testing though is needed so take this with a grain of salt.. 4)The cooldown and casting time for Fanning the Flames needs to be reduced somewhat, it doesn't feel right otherwise. 5) It is only fair that since conduit of ice had its damage reduced by 33 % , its casting time be kept, at least,unchanged.. Damage reductions should be balanced by shorter casting times and cooldowns of control powers,in order to balance things out.6) Shard of avalance is nerfed to the ground and should have its control aspect(prone time) increased to make up for the 60% and 33% damage decrease..
PS I'm OK with all damage nerfs, even CD nerfs but give more CC in return (STORM CAGE! )
I totally agree, I dont mind the damage reduction, but taking CC from CONTROL wizards ? Take away the damage, give us the control, so people in dungeons actually need a CW to control. Arcane Singularity - This is the perfect example of a rather ironic change.. Nerfing the cap limit down to 8 from 15.. Is taking away control from Cw's. This wouldn't bother me if the way sings pick up mobs werent so random, I can have 20 mobs ahead of me, and have my friend and me do a sing and pick up the same 8 mobs.. Rather stupid and random but either fix that or up the cap IMO
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vorcengetrixMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7Arc User
edited June 2014
I think you could stop a lot of CW problems with something very easy.
Why don't you add some damage per feat point in Thaum tree, Control per point in Oppressor tree and dam/Cont from renegade. This would make up for some dps loss of thaums (and not increase there CC), increase CC for Oppressors etc...
I think you could do this with most of the classes using combat advantage for TR's, Healing bonus stat etc...
if you did it per dot in each tree players could make some unique type builds as well.
Could I also ask for the Companions that give control bonus to be added to the stat like items (even if its a % increase on stat) as its nice to see there effects and I think would make you life easier as well.
Eye of storm is really to powerful with perfect vorpal (I got nearly 70% crit there which is crazy!), and why are people moaning about the control of Avalanche its really good kd most mobs.
[*]Elemental Empowerment: *REWORK* Dealing Cold damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage as Arcane damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of a target's resistance. These effects do not stack.
[*]Assailing Force: *REWORK* Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have Assailant your next encounter power deals 10% of the target's max HP as unresistable damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only affect one target when used in an AoE.
I have been on the preview shard for 30 minutes trying to get either Creeping Frost or Warped Magics to hit their respective 15% chance proc, but no joy. I blasted away at all manner of things with only chill powers and not once did Creeping Frost come up. The same with arcane powers and I never got Warped Magics. Even through all of this, at least 30 minutes trying to get either to proc, I only got Assailant once in that time. What exactly is the "chance" for Assailant to hit?
As a side note; All in all, my CW feels sluggish now. You slowed everything down except for Steal Time. My MMs are slower, the Chill Strike acts like he's not sure if he want's to let it fly or not, and Entangling Force is the same way. Half of my AoE damage is gone, half of my Arcane damage buff is gone..... No one likes a squishy Control Wizard. It seems like you took our ability to "control" away.
I just hope this thread is combed thoroughly and the CW community base speaks up.
Increasing the casting time of the class that already had the longest casting times (time from clicking the button to the first damage hitting the target) Is going to be very detrimental to the class as a whole, from my 5-6 hours or so checking out all the new changes for CWs, I'm very disappointed and depressed with how the class could potentially be playing in Module 4. Currently CWs are already at a disadvantage in many situations. (PvP) The casting times of our abilities make us much easier targets then any other class, adding that to the naturally low damage resistance you get a recipe for disaster. Take that and then add an increase in casting / delay times of a majority of our most useful skills, and then you get nail-biting, hair-pulling, stressful combat senarios. The small duration increase is so noticeable I've almost just quit the fight or tried to blame lag for my inadequacy on the test server.
Feedback: RoE casting time increase + No debuffing for team
Currently RoE is one of the CW best supporting abilities, giving our team a short window to increase their damage by a good amount during a fight. CW, being a support class, when using these types of abilities, they don't have the ability to do the damage and take use of the debuff themselves. Then comes the question, whats the point of putting a debuff (for yourself) if you can't even do damage onto that target? CWs need to be able to give their team something else then ranged at-wills and the occasional CC effect, because in most situations (PvP) the enemy will be CC immune or have such a high damage resistance the CW is literally useless in trying to do damage and help their team do damage. RoE needs to be able to debuff for your entire team or else it will just be another un-used ability, and that list of un-used abilities is rising because of the damage reductions and downtime of encounter abilities
Feedback: Magic Missile speed reduction
From what I can tell MM is the only at-will compared to other classes that has had a speed decrease. Why? Compared to the GWF at will sure strike, they were exactly on par in Module 3. On the test server me and my friend who is also a GWF were testing our dps on various npcs. We got very similar stat bonuses, and went out. With the speed reduction, my DPS was cut almost a third compared to the GWF who's sure strike was not reduced in speed. The CW already has very long and very noticeable casting times on the preview shard, making even our main at-will cast slower is just pinning the cross onto our grave. No other class has had such a reduction in effectiveness on the preview then CWs. It's very disappointing that so many people, including myself, have put so much effort into a class which come Module 4 could be cut down to a fraction of it's current effectivness, which in PvP, is already one of the lowest performing classes.
Feedback: AoE reductions (arcane singularity ect)
With the reductions in AoE damage & targeting, your forcing people to make up for that reduced CC by having more and more CWs in the party to help control the almost stupid amount of NPCs in high level dungeons. If you want to support rainbow parties of all varieties, and give everyone a taste of endgame dungeons and other features of the game, you can't make it harder for the largest AoE damager to do his job. With these kids of updates your promoting CW only parties, leaving out all the other classes and keeping them away from high level content which needs controllers and CC bosses to do. DC/TR/HR have almost no chance in any high level dungeon because CW / GWF can basically heal themselves with lifesteal from all the AoE, aswell as having to stack even more CW/GWF to make up for the reduced control from arcane singularity, and the other control reductions. The weaker something is, the more of it you will need to complete your task. The weaker control wizard is, the more you will need in your party to complete a dungeon.
So much wrong with the changes but I guess I start with the two most important ones..
Eye of the storm
As it is right now, everyone will un-slot it and there goes one of our best powers.
A cool-down on 90 sec is just ridiculous in PvP, you wont proc it in most of the fights and we have to spend more points in crit and lose damage/defense because of that.
Casting-times
Our casting-times were already slow. Feels like I'm playing a sluggish CW now.
Its taking the fun out of the class and needs to be fixed.
With the lag and rubber-banding this game has also makes this worse.
Overall you are nerfing us the wrong way and mostly its the PvP that suffers. The problems the class had, wasn't reason enough for these extreme measures. Some damage-nerfs is okay but you completely slaughtered the class.
Bug: Elemental Empowerment feat Just to reconfirm what has already been reported, parsing with ACT and scanning actual combat logs shows nothing is proccing Creeping Frost or Warped Magics. Feat does not work currently.
Bug: Assailing Force feat The proc chance of Assailing Force seems bugged. It generally procs at the start of combat but doesn't reproc for duration until character is well and truly out of combat or changed zones. Either it has a very high internal cooldown (at least 5 mins) or something else is not resetting.
Bug: Twisting Immolation feat As reported by another poster, there is no daze effect at all from feated Furious Immolation. Mobs drop down and come straight at you. There is no increase in debuff time of Combustive Action at all either, possibly due to the bug below.
Bug: Combustive Action class feature debuff expires prematurely because CW daily drop debuffs when it ends The debuff from Combustion Action only lasts 1 second according to ACT which seems far too low even for unfeated Combat action.
I highly suspect this is partly because CW daily powers including Furious Immolation, Oppressive Force causes many debuff effects to drop off targets when the effect ends (including High Viziers). This issue also effects DC daily powers such as Hammer of Fate and Flamestrike. This bug used to affect cleric divinity at wills but was fixed recently.
Screenshot of ACT log showing duration is included
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
PVE : In my opinion the small increase on many of the CW powers change nothing against brainless mobs. (not a big deal except a small loss of damage)
PVP : it makes this class worst than today, look at your scoreboard and you can see that 80% of the top 400 players are TR-GWF and HR.
AOE nerf damage.
PVE : I don't think that armor penetration fix will allow us to forget this huge nerf about the aoe dammage (feats and powers)
More spots for other class? on the old content i don't know, new module 4 content may be.
Boost on Steal time, well, just a small gift to swallow that huge nerf, it makes me laugh.
PVP : Most of the aoe encounters damage spells are totally useless anyway for domination, except the shard avalanche and the Conduit of ice, big nerf on them, so the class become worst and worst.
Control powers.
PVE : Taget Cap nerfing on singu, not a problem.
PVP : Repel on tab probably the only good news to push some immune class. (i presume it why you call moore survivability, sorry it makes me laugh again^^)
So my question is obvious.
No survivability, no speed, no stealth, worst armor protection, no immune, not the better ranged shot class, worst casting time, big nerf about AOE damage ( mostly useless for domination PVP), no heal.
Where is in this long list of nerfs the UP of OUR SINGLE TARGET base DAMAGE encounters SPELLS TO give us SOME BALANCE especially for PVP?
Where are our new powers or feats to have moore survivability?
Nowhere.
So explain to us, as one of the crappiest PVP class how we can be happy to see this endless list of PVE-PVP nerf with only two ridiculous 'buffs"?
My suggestion : Leave cooldowns as they are now even dmg and give every class few seconds automatic cc immunity after stun/daze/prone occur.
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notsosneaky69Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited June 2014
Been doing some more testing. The Renegade feat tree is useless basically. The damage you put out is low and there's not enough control.
The Oppressor path is not interesting at all due to the feat Brisk Transportation and Chilling Control choice. You have to waste points on one or the other. Brisk Transportation increases your run speed after teleporting and Chilling Control is a feat for Sudden Storm (useless power that has been nerfed down). The other paths have similar less than good feats, but nothing as bad as that. And Sudden Storm is even worse than Icy Terrain. It requires lining up, does little damage, no control.
Thaumaturge, drop in damage, a bit more significant than what I experienced after a brief test earlier. Control to make up for the loss of damage is still missing. Control times need to be doubled to make up for it. CW survivability is low, very low.
Arcane Singularity, takes too long to cast, doesn't affect enough targets, doesn't affect the targets enough (it just picks them up and drops them right back where they were, no grouping. Icewind Pass. This grouping issue was known in Dwarven Valley, but it seems NPCs in Icewind Pass has gotten more control resist). Damage is low.
Shard of Endless Avalanche, Knockback/knockdown affects targets for milliseconds, to boot damage is very low. Using the Shard on 2 Barbarian Raiders and a Bear Rider is a waste of time as they'll hit you for 65-70% of your total hit points before you manage to hit them with the shard. At that point you have to heal, Life Steal no longer has a chance to even keep your health at the point where you want to risk using another power before healing.
Steal Time stun shorter? All targets I hit snapped out of it very quickly, unlike in Module 3 where it gave you a short breather to use a potion / charge of your health stone.
Chill Strike, Main target doesn't remain frozen as long as in Module 3. Noticeable time difference.
Crits, Less crit hits doing less damage.
To sum it up, the CW has been nerfed into a DC but without the first aid kit...
Shard of Endless Avalance fix: -10% impact damage instead of -33%. -20% explosion damage instead of -60%.
Steal Time fix: Longer stun
Chill Strike fix: Longer freeze of main target.
Arcane Singularity fix: 15 target cap, not 8.
Overall problem fix: Wouldn't it be better to make the various feat paths have a more significant impact on how your character behaves on the battlefield? The Thaumaturge is today the ultimate DPS build CW. It's still a glass cannon. It hands out a lot of damage, but can barely take any back. Many of the high end dungeon bosses can one hit kill a CW as it is today. Set base damage on the powers then have the feats either boost a powers damage / control rather than nerfing 2 whole feat paths to death? And the CW is according to your own information, crowd control AND damage dealer. With this coming module release you're taking all the damage dealing out of it. The changes specced in the original post is way overkill. Nerf the CW if you feel that you need to. But the specified changes forces the existing CWs to respec.
When you start nerfing down classes you begin the slow but inevitable trip towards the death of the game. In the end you'll have nerfed all classes down to the point where people just don't enjoy playing anymore. After module 3 the amount of HRs playing has dropped. In my guild alone I know of several who quit. When you nerf down the CW to a bandaid free DC... Well, you figure it out...
Eye of the storm
As it is right now, everyone will un-slot it and there goes one of our best powers.
A cool-down on 90 sec is just ridiculous in PvP, you wont proc it in most of the fights and we have to spend more points in crit and lose damage/defense because of that.
I wonder what the niche for that class feature is supposed to be. It's obviously worse than Evocation now and in single target / PVP situation one should go with Chilling Presence or Orb of Imposition.
Generally an ICD for a class feature is a bad idea because people like reliability. Waiting for EotS to proc and then go all in is not what most are willing or be able to do in the heat of the battle.
For EotS to serve kind of a one-shot/executing purpose it should at least add some +%Critical Severity or +%Power as well, or let's say make the encounter in spell mastery available immediately from cooldown. A 100% crit chance for six seconds won't scare any PVP toons or PVE bosses.
I haven't read anything about it, but for these kind of rare procs it would be nice to have an audible feedback. I'm not sure you are able to even notice the proc with all the data on the screen.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
I feel that instead of these changes 3 simple things could've been done
1- The new epic dungeons should be Creative dungeons where classes are needed to do their class things, like solve puzzles, steal something, GF Intimidate, etc, with different ways to kill bosses.
2-Change High Viz set--and make other sets attractive.
3-Fix the PvP que
PVE- people will just stack more CWs with these purposed solutions, that is if people still play them. And so many of these fixes were obviously for pvp. Such as Slow Ice Knife? I rarely got to use Ice Knife in PVE, my dailies were saved for AS to group the mobs together FOR THE TEAM or Oppressive Force FOR THE TEAM. Kiting a bunch of mobs and casting has always been rough...but you made it harder.
PVP--As an end game player with lvl 60 CW as my main for a year now--who pugged their way thru the Domination pvp campaign for everything cept triple kills (which I still need), I can't understand why you feel you need to nerf CW in pvp.
Sure CW seem overpowered when you keep queing 16-18k GS people against whole teams under 10 k GS, and also seem to throw together 2 CW in every pug que But on the whole in the more equal matches I got, I watched average/newer cws with decent GS just get slaughtered over and over, even in winning matches. We are the first target for people who just want kills, and the first target for smarter teams who know that in COMBO with team/duo we are dangerous.
However--most PVP is not done by people that are great at teamwork, it is mostly pugs with some premades running around. In pugs it is common to have 2- 4 people on a cw to kill it quick, all vying for that kill for their Leaderboard. PVP fixes should not be determined by the power of 100 Endgame Elites who only PVP. It is true that I only pvp, and am in an elite guild, but, I think that since I pug A LOT and did that campaign mostly thru pugging, I offer a unique perspective.
Think of the average person who like to do both PVE and PVP, You are killing CW in pvp. If you are designing pvp around the Elite players, so many people won't even take a CW on their premades now, or a GF. This should really tell you something, yet you felt a need to to make playing CW in PvP even more painful.
There are 2000 pages on the leaderboard...so obviously people do PvP.
Let's have some feedback here based on what and how I play. I'm gonna answer stuff as the list go, in order.
The armor penetration change is awesome, thanks for it.
Powers
Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2).
Scorching Burst: This power now benefits more from being charged. The bonus from charging has been improved by roughly 50%.
Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Entangling Force: This power's damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds).
Entangling Force: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall.
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33%
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).
Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies no longer benefit from this debuff.
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
Fanning the Flame: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .6 seconds).
Fanning the Flame: This power has had its recharge time increased to 22 seconds (up from 15 seconds).
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).
Furious Immolation: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 26%.
Eye of the Storm: This power now has an internal cooldown of 90 seconds. Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).
Magic missile has it's dps lowered by a lot by doing this. Why? It's not like at-will powers are extraordinary dps tools. I really think this is a pointless nerf. The main purpose of arcane missile is to get arcane mastery stacks. It's also a single target ability so I really don't see the point of nerfing it.
Chilling cloud got a buff, which is nice considering it was a weak spell to begin with.
Scorching burst, I never tried so I don't know.
Chill Strike got a nerf on both duration and cast time. This is another nerf I don't quite understand. Why bother lowering the damage of a single target spell? If you are nerfing it because of the tab power, couldn't you just have the slower and longer recharge apply only if it's in the mastery slot?
Conduit of Ice just got way overnerfed. It is already quite feasible to have the cooldown of the spell match the duration of the chill stacks with some recovery that lowering it like this will just cause overlap on the chill stacks. It might not be a bad thing per say but I don't think it's worth sacrificing the 33% damage for it. Especially with the 50% increase cast time. Either leave it as it currently is or only decrease the damage by 20%~. The increase in cast time will more than cover the dps nerf you are looking for.
Entangling force REALLY can't afford to be slower to be cast. It's a very important move to land in pvp and giving .2 extra second to react can make it a dodge very easily. PLEASE retract that.
Icy terrain, ok, give it back unlimited targets and we might use it ow.
The sudden storm change is just gutting the spell. It was the bread and butter spell for spellstorm and the increase in cooldown and the huge nerf on it is just overkill. The dps nerf you are applying on this skill is over 50%!!! If I had a 20k hit previously, it equalled 2k dps (10s cooldown). Now, the same hit that would do 20k is gonna do 13332 with a 14s cooldown for a total of 952 dps. It's way overnerfed.
Ray of enfeeblement nerf makes absolutely no sense. CW are already poor in single target and you are nerfing it even more? Even worse, you remove the group utility from the spell... Please retract everything here.
Steal Time has a very strong buff, nearly double the damage it currently does. I'm not sure I understand why you are buffing it, maybe to make the overnerfing of shard/sudden storm. If it is the case, you are doing it wrong. You don't overbuff something while overnerfing the other. Honestly, the buff here is only needed because of the ridiculous overnerfing of everything else.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche is also another spell you are overnerfing. It's a freaking 66% damage reduction! It will hit like a wet noodle if this go through. Especially when you consider how long it takes to summon and then launch the **** thing. I suspect that the change will make the spell unusable.
No experience with fanning the flame so I won't talk.
Arcane singularity will simply get removed from everyone's bar. The target limit makes it useless in any situation you wanted it to be useful and the 2s cast time makes it impossible to cast in a situation where you have aggro from multiple mobs. Revert it or it will never be used again.
Ice knife, I'm not sure it's a good nerf. It's mostly a pvp skill with some use in pve but why make it easier to dodge?
eye of the storm is another "will never be used again" if this goes through. I won't argue the need to nerf this skill but you are doing it the wrong way. Do a complete redesign of the passive instead.
Ok i'm adding this as a clarification on a previous post,the response delay of my toon,after casting a spell is especially noticeable after casting Fanning the Flames in which case my toon simply doesn't move for a second or two.It is a very annoying bug,that i hope will get fixed.Also the game lags badly,which is something not unusual,but this time it's really bad,especially during combat,so please improve that too
It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
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kempo23Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
Arcane Singularity: I think it has to affect on 15-16 targets, but with 40-50% lover damage.
Than , too much nerf on CW. Lots of people will quit after this patch.
I don't use a CW, but without cw we can't do lots of dungeon.
With this nerfs nothing will change.
Party will be formed by 3 cw with or without this nerf.
Dungeons are the problem, not the CW.
For me, CW has to be nerfed on PVP. I'm a ranger and they kill me with a rotation. Nerf them only in PVP and not in PVE.
If you nerf the DPS of mage by 60%, all will be useless.
As i say first: Party will be formed by 3 cw ( minimum ) with or without this nerf.
So, why nerf it? In this case, with this nerf, this game will lose only about 30% of players. If you want it, you are on a good street.
I'm sorry for bad english!
When you entangling grasp someone, and while they are still in the air, there is still the ability to deflect a push by repel
i just tested this, after about 20 minutes, roughly 40% of the repel pushes were deflected
Due to the longer cooldowns and longer charge times the fights suddenly also felt a lot slower and much less action-packed. This is probably more important to me in terms of having fun with the game than the actual numbers.
As for the PvE nerfs, not too worried. CW will always have a spot in a party. Losing mitigation from CoI AND having its damage decreased seems a bit off. One or the other would of been enough, with both nerfs the skill is pointless to slot. Everything else i can live with.
I'm not a big pvper, so I will refrain from commenting on that part of gameplay.
Powers
- Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).
- Scorching Burst: This power now benefits more from being charged. The bonus from charging has been improved by roughly 50%.
- Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
- Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
- Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds). Slightly noticeable, but a welcome boost.
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%. That final blast has now lost it's sting, but this spell is still worth having
- Fanning the Flame: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .6 seconds).
- Fanning the Flame: This power has had its recharge time increased to 22 seconds (up from 15 seconds).
- Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
- Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
- Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
- Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).
- Furious Immolation: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 26%.
Feats: OppressorI found this so notably slower that I started to use Chilling Cloud instead.
Extra damage is nice, but it still remains as clumsy to use as ever. Any chance you can make it auto fire when it reaches full charge, instead of having to release it?
This is almost unnoticeable, but the faster chill stacking soon shows itself and is nice.
A useful damage buff to make up for damage lost for Shard.
This is fair enough given the amount of damage it was doing before.
The initial push of Shard ALWAYS triggers controlled momentum, even if there are no enemies present. Is this intentional?
Addendum: Shard has a really glitched animation on preview at the moment.
This change is so very noticeable it is not funny. From start to finish, the entire casting animation takes about 3 seconds, during which you are completely rooted to the spot and cannot move, dodge etc. While I much preferred the fast burst it was before, this new time is too long. Perhaps 1 sec would be better?
I didn't really notice this increase in duration to be honest, but it's a tolerable change given the power and damage of this spell both in 1v1 and AoE(tab) situations.
I find myself using Oppresive Force more these days, but I suppose if you want to avoid those CW singularity clumps of death, this was half the means so doing.
The other half of reducing the effectiveness of clumps of AoE death. But as an MoF I preferred smaller groups anyway so this is no major change for me.
Fine, it still occupies my other daily slot regardless.
Barely noticeable outside of pvp.
I always considered this daily as weaker than the others unless combined with Twisting Immolation (see below), so this damage boost is welcome.
This is an excellent team buff and only boosts my CW's team-oriented focus.
>>>>>This feat has been bugged since the changes to Furious Immolation in Mod 3. The daze effect has not fired since mod 3 came into effect, and that is still the case now on preview. Therefore the duration and effectiveness of this daze cannot be tested at this time.<<<<<
I have not taken this as a feat so I can't comment.
This almost seems like an OP rework, given the permafreezing capability even in pvp. I would suggest to lower this to 7.5% per point (to 37.5% chance in total with 5 points)
I need to study this feat further to determine some issues. To be updated.
Another excellent team buff. See above under my comments for Shard as to whether it should fire from pushing Shard with no enemies present.
This is an excellent, if slightly overpowered, rework for the Oppressor Capstone. I was able to complete a major encounter using this (along with another CW Oppressor). All the mobs were frozen/stunned 95% of the time, then we just had to facetank the boss for a bit. The damage burst to Control immune mobs is very nice too.I think the stun time should be reduced to 3 seconds at least.
I will update this post soon when I have a bit more time.
I was using icy terrain in tab, steal time, sudden storm (have the feat that adds 5 stacks of chill) and shard.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Agree almost with the whole post, why nerfing the damage so much and SLOOOW every single PVP encounter when you could just nerf the damage a little and put a max. target limit on all the aoe spells? (making them awful in those dungeon with billions of adds every corner). Some of those patch notes look to me like a straight up PVP NERF, some single target changes are unexplainable since they don't interfere with PVE at all .
I played on preview several hours and those changes slow the gameplay and the encounter rotations so much it's not even funny.
As always you guys totally ignore the simple nerfs and adjustment that your community has been asking for the last 6 months and obviously haven't played a single pvp match in the last 3.
Since you created a pvp leaderboard a good idea would be to just take feedback in game from some of the players with a lot of matches in the first 2-3 pages instead of the forum since it's really hard to have a decent discussion here or comunicate properly.
IMO the only two things which could be toned down is: 1) the proc of EotS 2) the damage of shard explosion (but only slightly!!). Nothing else.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Currently, with Arcane Singularity's target limit being 15, rainbow party, which has only 1 CW, is viable in epic dungeons. Reducing its capability of gathering mobs can only force players to stack more CWs in order to make up for the nerf. Please reconsider. Don't kill rainbow party.
Checked on test realm, have char with 13.9k gs(+g.vorpal + stone). With good gear stuff is a little slower, but on solo quests it's ok, that's in Sharandar, idk how it will look in icewind dale, probably not fun. Can't test the important stuff, coz there is no one on queue for vt, mc, cn or any other of the places worth testing it seems. Not even in the skirmish queue.
About feedback... I can write a lot, but seeing in one topic more or less all our control, aoe and even single target skills nerfed, makes it hard to give any feedback, except sayin the same the guys in global say - it will destroy the class, but that part is clear at this point.
So if we lose aoe, but we get more control, ok, we are control add class after all, we can manage. Lose control but gain aoe, ok we can manage, will kill adds before they can become too big a problem. However on this changes seems to lose control and aoe here. Also we lose single target dps, cws never had good single target dps(some instances like vt, mc and fh last bosses need single target skills), so nerfing our single target dps too, is also a good idea i guess. After all have to be clear this isn't balanced change, it's just global nerfing of the whole class even at the points he was weak to begin with.
If it was balanced update, some stuff nerfed, some improved we could talk about how different changes effect the gameplay, but when we have all our skills nerfed more or less, there is no need of feedback, of course it will be slower, less dmg, even less single target damage, what is there to say?And of course most cws will be against it, I doubt most other classes will be for it too, since in instances now they will have to deal with the extra adds our singu can't handle...
I think nerfing cws that much will be bad for all in the long run, but we will see...
somewhere is fighting for you.
-Severe Reaction: spreads enemies and that doesn't help anyone (maybe in PvP)
-Bitter Cold: more dps for control tree?
-Brisk Transport: so run faster because....?
-Twisting Immolation: great one, FI with it is almost as good as Oppresive Force in terms of control and better with gathering mobs in one place
-Cold Infusion: errrr... I'm confused with this one, does it work as long as chill is applied (so basically each 10 seconds when player applies chill its refreshed) or it works only with first stack?
-Glacial Movement: So with all adds around I can only apply additional stack of chill with ray of frost? Guess this one is for PvP mainly
-Alacrity: soooo... how much "chance" do I have here? (not to mention bonus CD it gives which is poor in terms of time and powers affected)
-Controlled Momentum: more dps for my party.... yaaaaaaay.... ok sarcasm off, one thing needs to be cleared here: Which are control powers exactly?
-Shatter Strike: greatest change of all... (no sarcasm in here actually, I love this one)
With 9 feats from "control" feat tree only 2 are actually useful control buffs for PvE; one is PvP control feat (single target), three are self buffs (stamina regen, speed buff, repel attackers, reduced cooldowns) and three enemy debuffs, party buffs (damage de/buffs)...
Soooo... from 9 feats I really want only 2...
I just hope we have plenty of people testing this stuff so hopefully we can get them to rollback some of these changes slightly otherwise we will be stuck with them for months , we all know how slow they are to act and change stuff once it goes live.
I totally agree, I dont mind the damage reduction, but taking CC from CONTROL wizards ? Take away the damage, give us the control, so people in dungeons actually need a CW to control. Arcane Singularity - This is the perfect example of a rather ironic change.. Nerfing the cap limit down to 8 from 15.. Is taking away control from Cw's. This wouldn't bother me if the way sings pick up mobs werent so random, I can have 20 mobs ahead of me, and have my friend and me do a sing and pick up the same 8 mobs.. Rather stupid and random but either fix that or up the cap IMO
Why don't you add some damage per feat point in Thaum tree, Control per point in Oppressor tree and dam/Cont from renegade. This would make up for some dps loss of thaums (and not increase there CC), increase CC for Oppressors etc...
I think you could do this with most of the classes using combat advantage for TR's, Healing bonus stat etc...
if you did it per dot in each tree players could make some unique type builds as well.
Could I also ask for the Companions that give control bonus to be added to the stat like items (even if its a % increase on stat) as its nice to see there effects and I think would make you life easier as well.
Eye of storm is really to powerful with perfect vorpal (I got nearly 70% crit there which is crazy!), and why are people moaning about the control of Avalanche its really good kd most mobs.
I have been on the preview shard for 30 minutes trying to get either Creeping Frost or Warped Magics to hit their respective 15% chance proc, but no joy. I blasted away at all manner of things with only chill powers and not once did Creeping Frost come up. The same with arcane powers and I never got Warped Magics. Even through all of this, at least 30 minutes trying to get either to proc, I only got Assailant once in that time. What exactly is the "chance" for Assailant to hit?
As a side note; All in all, my CW feels sluggish now. You slowed everything down except for Steal Time. My MMs are slower, the Chill Strike acts like he's not sure if he want's to let it fly or not, and Entangling Force is the same way. Half of my AoE damage is gone, half of my Arcane damage buff is gone..... No one likes a squishy Control Wizard. It seems like you took our ability to "control" away.
I just hope this thread is combed thoroughly and the CW community base speaks up.
Increasing the casting time of the class that already had the longest casting times (time from clicking the button to the first damage hitting the target) Is going to be very detrimental to the class as a whole, from my 5-6 hours or so checking out all the new changes for CWs, I'm very disappointed and depressed with how the class could potentially be playing in Module 4. Currently CWs are already at a disadvantage in many situations. (PvP) The casting times of our abilities make us much easier targets then any other class, adding that to the naturally low damage resistance you get a recipe for disaster. Take that and then add an increase in casting / delay times of a majority of our most useful skills, and then you get nail-biting, hair-pulling, stressful combat senarios. The small duration increase is so noticeable I've almost just quit the fight or tried to blame lag for my inadequacy on the test server.
Feedback: RoE casting time increase + No debuffing for team
Currently RoE is one of the CW best supporting abilities, giving our team a short window to increase their damage by a good amount during a fight. CW, being a support class, when using these types of abilities, they don't have the ability to do the damage and take use of the debuff themselves. Then comes the question, whats the point of putting a debuff (for yourself) if you can't even do damage onto that target? CWs need to be able to give their team something else then ranged at-wills and the occasional CC effect, because in most situations (PvP) the enemy will be CC immune or have such a high damage resistance the CW is literally useless in trying to do damage and help their team do damage. RoE needs to be able to debuff for your entire team or else it will just be another un-used ability, and that list of un-used abilities is rising because of the damage reductions and downtime of encounter abilities
Feedback: Magic Missile speed reduction
From what I can tell MM is the only at-will compared to other classes that has had a speed decrease. Why? Compared to the GWF at will sure strike, they were exactly on par in Module 3. On the test server me and my friend who is also a GWF were testing our dps on various npcs. We got very similar stat bonuses, and went out. With the speed reduction, my DPS was cut almost a third compared to the GWF who's sure strike was not reduced in speed. The CW already has very long and very noticeable casting times on the preview shard, making even our main at-will cast slower is just pinning the cross onto our grave. No other class has had such a reduction in effectiveness on the preview then CWs. It's very disappointing that so many people, including myself, have put so much effort into a class which come Module 4 could be cut down to a fraction of it's current effectivness, which in PvP, is already one of the lowest performing classes.
Feedback: AoE reductions (arcane singularity ect)
With the reductions in AoE damage & targeting, your forcing people to make up for that reduced CC by having more and more CWs in the party to help control the almost stupid amount of NPCs in high level dungeons. If you want to support rainbow parties of all varieties, and give everyone a taste of endgame dungeons and other features of the game, you can't make it harder for the largest AoE damager to do his job. With these kids of updates your promoting CW only parties, leaving out all the other classes and keeping them away from high level content which needs controllers and CC bosses to do. DC/TR/HR have almost no chance in any high level dungeon because CW / GWF can basically heal themselves with lifesteal from all the AoE, aswell as having to stack even more CW/GWF to make up for the reduced control from arcane singularity, and the other control reductions. The weaker something is, the more of it you will need to complete your task. The weaker control wizard is, the more you will need in your party to complete a dungeon.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Eye of the storm
As it is right now, everyone will un-slot it and there goes one of our best powers.
A cool-down on 90 sec is just ridiculous in PvP, you wont proc it in most of the fights and we have to spend more points in crit and lose damage/defense because of that.
Casting-times
Our casting-times were already slow. Feels like I'm playing a sluggish CW now.
Its taking the fun out of the class and needs to be fixed.
With the lag and rubber-banding this game has also makes this worse.
Overall you are nerfing us the wrong way and mostly its the PvP that suffers. The problems the class had, wasn't reason enough for these extreme measures. Some damage-nerfs is okay but you completely slaughtered the class.
Just to reconfirm what has already been reported, parsing with ACT and scanning actual combat logs shows nothing is proccing Creeping Frost or Warped Magics. Feat does not work currently.
Bug: Assailing Force feat
The proc chance of Assailing Force seems bugged. It generally procs at the start of combat but doesn't reproc for duration until character is well and truly out of combat or changed zones. Either it has a very high internal cooldown (at least 5 mins) or something else is not resetting.
Bug: Twisting Immolation feat
As reported by another poster, there is no daze effect at all from feated Furious Immolation. Mobs drop down and come straight at you. There is no increase in debuff time of Combustive Action at all either, possibly due to the bug below.
Bug: Combustive Action class feature debuff expires prematurely because CW daily drop debuffs when it ends
The debuff from Combustion Action only lasts 1 second according to ACT which seems far too low even for unfeated Combat action.
I highly suspect this is partly because CW daily powers including Furious Immolation, Oppressive Force causes many debuff effects to drop off targets when the effect ends (including High Viziers). This issue also effects DC daily powers such as Hammer of Fate and Flamestrike. This bug used to affect cleric divinity at wills but was fixed recently.
Screenshot of ACT log showing duration is included
Guild and guide info
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
PVE : In my opinion the small increase on many of the CW powers change nothing against brainless mobs. (not a big deal except a small loss of damage)
PVP : it makes this class worst than today, look at your scoreboard and you can see that 80% of the top 400 players are TR-GWF and HR.
AOE nerf damage.
PVE : I don't think that armor penetration fix will allow us to forget this huge nerf about the aoe dammage (feats and powers)
More spots for other class? on the old content i don't know, new module 4 content may be.
Boost on Steal time, well, just a small gift to swallow that huge nerf, it makes me laugh.
PVP : Most of the aoe encounters damage spells are totally useless anyway for domination, except the shard avalanche and the Conduit of ice, big nerf on them, so the class become worst and worst.
Control powers.
PVE : Taget Cap nerfing on singu, not a problem.
PVP : Repel on tab probably the only good news to push some immune class. (i presume it why you call moore survivability, sorry it makes me laugh again^^)
So my question is obvious.
No survivability, no speed, no stealth, worst armor protection, no immune, not the better ranged shot class, worst casting time, big nerf about AOE damage ( mostly useless for domination PVP), no heal.
Where is in this long list of nerfs the UP of OUR SINGLE TARGET base DAMAGE encounters SPELLS TO give us SOME BALANCE especially for PVP?
Where are our new powers or feats to have moore survivability?
Nowhere.
So explain to us, as one of the crappiest PVP class how we can be happy to see this endless list of PVE-PVP nerf with only two ridiculous 'buffs"?
It makes me laugh once again.
The Oppressor path is not interesting at all due to the feat Brisk Transportation and Chilling Control choice. You have to waste points on one or the other. Brisk Transportation increases your run speed after teleporting and Chilling Control is a feat for Sudden Storm (useless power that has been nerfed down). The other paths have similar less than good feats, but nothing as bad as that. And Sudden Storm is even worse than Icy Terrain. It requires lining up, does little damage, no control.
Thaumaturge, drop in damage, a bit more significant than what I experienced after a brief test earlier. Control to make up for the loss of damage is still missing. Control times need to be doubled to make up for it. CW survivability is low, very low.
Arcane Singularity, takes too long to cast, doesn't affect enough targets, doesn't affect the targets enough (it just picks them up and drops them right back where they were, no grouping. Icewind Pass. This grouping issue was known in Dwarven Valley, but it seems NPCs in Icewind Pass has gotten more control resist). Damage is low.
Shard of Endless Avalanche, Knockback/knockdown affects targets for milliseconds, to boot damage is very low. Using the Shard on 2 Barbarian Raiders and a Bear Rider is a waste of time as they'll hit you for 65-70% of your total hit points before you manage to hit them with the shard. At that point you have to heal, Life Steal no longer has a chance to even keep your health at the point where you want to risk using another power before healing.
Steal Time stun shorter? All targets I hit snapped out of it very quickly, unlike in Module 3 where it gave you a short breather to use a potion / charge of your health stone.
Chill Strike, Main target doesn't remain frozen as long as in Module 3. Noticeable time difference.
Crits, Less crit hits doing less damage.
To sum it up, the CW has been nerfed into a DC but without the first aid kit...
Shard of Endless Avalance fix: -10% impact damage instead of -33%. -20% explosion damage instead of -60%.
Steal Time fix: Longer stun
Chill Strike fix: Longer freeze of main target.
Arcane Singularity fix: 15 target cap, not 8.
Overall problem fix: Wouldn't it be better to make the various feat paths have a more significant impact on how your character behaves on the battlefield? The Thaumaturge is today the ultimate DPS build CW. It's still a glass cannon. It hands out a lot of damage, but can barely take any back. Many of the high end dungeon bosses can one hit kill a CW as it is today. Set base damage on the powers then have the feats either boost a powers damage / control rather than nerfing 2 whole feat paths to death? And the CW is according to your own information, crowd control AND damage dealer. With this coming module release you're taking all the damage dealing out of it. The changes specced in the original post is way overkill. Nerf the CW if you feel that you need to. But the specified changes forces the existing CWs to respec.
When you start nerfing down classes you begin the slow but inevitable trip towards the death of the game. In the end you'll have nerfed all classes down to the point where people just don't enjoy playing anymore. After module 3 the amount of HRs playing has dropped. In my guild alone I know of several who quit. When you nerf down the CW to a bandaid free DC... Well, you figure it out...
I wonder what the niche for that class feature is supposed to be. It's obviously worse than Evocation now and in single target / PVP situation one should go with Chilling Presence or Orb of Imposition.
Generally an ICD for a class feature is a bad idea because people like reliability. Waiting for EotS to proc and then go all in is not what most are willing or be able to do in the heat of the battle.
For EotS to serve kind of a one-shot/executing purpose it should at least add some +%Critical Severity or +%Power as well, or let's say make the encounter in spell mastery available immediately from cooldown. A 100% crit chance for six seconds won't scare any PVP toons or PVE bosses.
I haven't read anything about it, but for these kind of rare procs it would be nice to have an audible feedback. I'm not sure you are able to even notice the proc with all the data on the screen.
1- The new epic dungeons should be Creative dungeons where classes are needed to do their class things, like solve puzzles, steal something, GF Intimidate, etc, with different ways to kill bosses.
2-Change High Viz set--and make other sets attractive.
3-Fix the PvP que
PVE- people will just stack more CWs with these purposed solutions, that is if people still play them. And so many of these fixes were obviously for pvp. Such as Slow Ice Knife? I rarely got to use Ice Knife in PVE, my dailies were saved for AS to group the mobs together FOR THE TEAM or Oppressive Force FOR THE TEAM. Kiting a bunch of mobs and casting has always been rough...but you made it harder.
PVP--As an end game player with lvl 60 CW as my main for a year now--who pugged their way thru the Domination pvp campaign for everything cept triple kills (which I still need), I can't understand why you feel you need to nerf CW in pvp.
Sure CW seem overpowered when you keep queing 16-18k GS people against whole teams under 10 k GS, and also seem to throw together 2 CW in every pug que But on the whole in the more equal matches I got, I watched average/newer cws with decent GS just get slaughtered over and over, even in winning matches. We are the first target for people who just want kills, and the first target for smarter teams who know that in COMBO with team/duo we are dangerous.
However--most PVP is not done by people that are great at teamwork, it is mostly pugs with some premades running around. In pugs it is common to have 2- 4 people on a cw to kill it quick, all vying for that kill for their Leaderboard. PVP fixes should not be determined by the power of 100 Endgame Elites who only PVP. It is true that I only pvp, and am in an elite guild, but, I think that since I pug A LOT and did that campaign mostly thru pugging, I offer a unique perspective.
Think of the average person who like to do both PVE and PVP, You are killing CW in pvp. If you are designing pvp around the Elite players, so many people won't even take a CW on their premades now, or a GF. This should really tell you something, yet you felt a need to to make playing CW in PvP even more painful.
There are 2000 pages on the leaderboard...so obviously people do PvP.
The armor penetration change is awesome, thanks for it.
Magic missile has it's dps lowered by a lot by doing this. Why? It's not like at-will powers are extraordinary dps tools. I really think this is a pointless nerf. The main purpose of arcane missile is to get arcane mastery stacks. It's also a single target ability so I really don't see the point of nerfing it.
Chilling cloud got a buff, which is nice considering it was a weak spell to begin with.
Scorching burst, I never tried so I don't know.
Chill Strike got a nerf on both duration and cast time. This is another nerf I don't quite understand. Why bother lowering the damage of a single target spell? If you are nerfing it because of the tab power, couldn't you just have the slower and longer recharge apply only if it's in the mastery slot?
Conduit of Ice just got way overnerfed. It is already quite feasible to have the cooldown of the spell match the duration of the chill stacks with some recovery that lowering it like this will just cause overlap on the chill stacks. It might not be a bad thing per say but I don't think it's worth sacrificing the 33% damage for it. Especially with the 50% increase cast time. Either leave it as it currently is or only decrease the damage by 20%~. The increase in cast time will more than cover the dps nerf you are looking for.
Entangling force REALLY can't afford to be slower to be cast. It's a very important move to land in pvp and giving .2 extra second to react can make it a dodge very easily. PLEASE retract that.
Icy terrain, ok, give it back unlimited targets and we might use it ow.
The sudden storm change is just gutting the spell. It was the bread and butter spell for spellstorm and the increase in cooldown and the huge nerf on it is just overkill. The dps nerf you are applying on this skill is over 50%!!! If I had a 20k hit previously, it equalled 2k dps (10s cooldown). Now, the same hit that would do 20k is gonna do 13332 with a 14s cooldown for a total of 952 dps. It's way overnerfed.
Ray of enfeeblement nerf makes absolutely no sense. CW are already poor in single target and you are nerfing it even more? Even worse, you remove the group utility from the spell... Please retract everything here.
Steal Time has a very strong buff, nearly double the damage it currently does. I'm not sure I understand why you are buffing it, maybe to make the overnerfing of shard/sudden storm. If it is the case, you are doing it wrong. You don't overbuff something while overnerfing the other. Honestly, the buff here is only needed because of the ridiculous overnerfing of everything else.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche is also another spell you are overnerfing. It's a freaking 66% damage reduction! It will hit like a wet noodle if this go through. Especially when you consider how long it takes to summon and then launch the **** thing. I suspect that the change will make the spell unusable.
No experience with fanning the flame so I won't talk.
Arcane singularity will simply get removed from everyone's bar. The target limit makes it useless in any situation you wanted it to be useful and the 2s cast time makes it impossible to cast in a situation where you have aggro from multiple mobs. Revert it or it will never be used again.
Ice knife, I'm not sure it's a good nerf. It's mostly a pvp skill with some use in pve but why make it easier to dodge?
eye of the storm is another "will never be used again" if this goes through. I won't argue the need to nerf this skill but you are doing it the wrong way. Do a complete redesign of the passive instead.
I'll do the rest in another post.