I feel that the changes to Unstoppable destroy the class mechanics. I was just fighting a young Rhemoraz in Icewind Dale. On live I can stay in its red attack area. I take damage, go unstoppable and heal with the 14% life steal I have. On preview I take too much damage while being unstoppable. Therefore I can't heal myself with life steal and have to rely on taking pots or trying to run away - which does not guarantee to avoid damage.
I just imagine doing Kessel's Retreat with the changes. It'll be near impossible. Even with a DC it will mean to be dying a lot... and therefore completely taking the fun out of playing this class.
The changes to unstoppable make it useless for those cases where it really is needed. Going Sentinel is not really an option because of the DPS lost.
If this change is made to balance PvP and you really want to stick to it, please consider to apply it only during PvP. It just breaks the class in PvE.
Let me clarify my reason for why playing the GWF is so much fun (PvE only). With the current Unstoppable mechanics it is a thrilling cycle of taking enough damage to be able to go unstoppable and dealing enough damage to be able to get healed by Life Steal. This cycle is no longer possible with the changes to Unstoppable.
As others have pointed out the changes to the GWF's prone powers may be enough to make it more balanced in PvP. Please reconsider the changes to Unstoppable.
Actually I was complaining about the fun of playing the class being taken away. You already have to step out of (some) red circles when not being unstoppable. Now you have to do it even if you are unstoppable. So what's the point of being unstoppable at all? They could just get rid of it for Destroyers and Instigators. A DR of 10% just does not make enough difference.
Unstoppable is the CORE of the GWF class. Take it away and it is a different class. It's like taking stealth from the TRs. Spell mastery from CWs. Divinity from DCs. Etc.
Those rants synthesizes in few lines as bad are mentality now the majority of GWF players and the God mode of a idiot proof class.
The remark on red areas and unstoppable is hilarius.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
First they want you to play destroyer because Sentinel is too tanky. Now they want you to play sentinel again because destroyer is too much tanky dps. Takedown is no takedown anymore . Joke game.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
Great Weapon Fighters have been dominating in PvP ...
I wish we knew the data on which this claim is based upon.
The leader board (if it is of any worth) shows a different picture. Numbers are toons in the first 100 ranks with toons in the first 20 ranks given in parentheses.
This does NOT show a dominance of the GWF. It rather shows that GWF, HR, and TR seem to perform equally good, while the rest cannot compete. Unfortunately we do not know anything about the relative distribution of toons participating in PvP. If a class would be greatly preferred it would of course be "dominating" the leader board.
It would be very sad if the changes to Unstoppable are based on a false assumption.
You don't have just 5-10% resist. the 5-10% is add on TOP of what you get from base stats and gear. Maybe you'll want to look at how that's set up if you were over-reliant on Unstoppable. In addition, you're not going at it alone; bring a healer or a tank along to help you stay alive while you dish out the damage.
It's a good change because GWFs shouldn't both be tankier than GFs AND do more damage. Now you have to choose one or the other, making more room for other classes.
why don't you do ToS/CN/MC/VT with a GF that sits there with there 80% resistance and huge treat generation dealing no damage because they have to put a shield up(yes they can still hit on enemy). while you have a GWF/CW hitting all of them doing a good amount of DPS. some of thoughs adds are going to turn around and attack the CW and GWF and guess what CW is going to dodge out of the Way while the GWF is going to "get bigger" and take 95-90% of the damage they would do with out "getting bigger." so in order for the GF too take all that agro back he has to have the fast cool downs.
so thats going to be the strategy right?
well AOE from bosses are going to knock all of the other toons other than the GWF and GF back or even us back(CN and MC bosses do this) and we as the GWF with no dodge mechanic will take all but 90-95% of that damage.
now lets talk valindra she hits everyone for a good amount of damage also we have to do caskets during which we have no life steal to keep us alive and no ranged power(front-line surge and threatening rush dont count and ranged) to get some life steal heals. last phase when all them op adds roll up and start to say hi in there oh so deadly way called lunging at our face with a giant sword. and lets see how a GF with his shield can handle all that. by that time the GWF is already dead due too being able to take 3 hits while "being Bigger" and getting downed.
ToS "Hey GF take the boss and add while we kill the boss ok?" 20 sec latter "GF x_x due too being surrounded with exploding adds all around them with a shield that blocks in a 180-200 degree raidus(incorrect i think but you get my point) and now we as the "supposed fighter class from D&D have to tank" and Guess what DO DAMAGE.... party wipe back to the drawling board.
why don't you do ToS/CN/MC/VT with a GF that sits there with there 80% resistance and huge treat generation dealing no damage because they have to put a shield up(yes they can still hit on enemy). while you have a GWF/CW hitting all of them doing a good amount of DPS. some of thoughs adds are going to turn around and attack the CW and GWF and guess what CW is going to dodge out of the Way while the GWF is going to "get bigger" and take 95-90% of the damage they would do with out "getting bigger." so in order for the GF too take all that agro back he has to have the fast cool downs.
so thats going to be the strategy right?
well AOE from bosses are going to knock all of the other toons other than the GWF and GF back or even us back(CN and MC bosses do this) and we as the GWF with no dodge mechanic will take all but 90-95% of that damage.
now lets talk valindra she hits everyone for a good amount of damage also we have to do caskets during which we have no life steal to keep us alive and no ranged power(front-line surge and threatening rush dont count and ranged) to get some life steal heals. last phase when all them op adds roll up and start to say hi in there oh so deadly way called lunging at our face with a giant sword. and lets see how a GF with his shield can handle all that. by that time the GWF is already dead due too being able to take 3 hits while "being Bigger" and getting downed.
ToS "Hey GF take the boss and add while we kill the boss ok?" 20 sec latter "GF x_x due too being surrounded with exploding adds all around them with a shield that blocks in a 180-200 degree raidus(incorrect i think but you get my point) and now we as the "supposed fighter class from D&D have to tank" and Guess what DO DAMAGE.... party wipe back to the drawling board.
This preview patch is feel like nerf all class to make the dungeon harder and take longer time to finish it. Nerf the survivability of GWF to make the GF to be necessary in every dungeon. (I play both GWF and GF)
as a TR i simply love that changes.
Iits not normal when in open pvp there are 10 gwfs, few hunters and a dc
Its not normal, that result of any pvp match is desided only by the fact, who has a 18k gwf on team.
Its not normal, when u fight a gwf with 3 ppl and on 5k hp he pops unstoppable and sprints out for heals without any chances of killing it.
Its not normal, that i can hit for 25k with a 12k gwf with blue items.
And its not normal, that most gwfs complain that now they have to avoid red areas. Lol, really? All others need to do dodge red and for gwf it's not acceptable?
wheres our dodge mechanic if you say sprint you sir are wrong that is not a dodge because even if we are out of the circle we still get hit unstopable was the only reason that we survived.
they why can I get out of red areas with my GWF with sprint? am I a mage or something?
of course if I take too long I can't do it, same with any dodge mechanic. If I take too long then I get hit.
This preview patch is feel like nerf all class to make the dungeon harder and take longer time to finish it. Nerf the survivability of GWF to make the GF to be necessary in every dungeon. (I play both GWF and GF)
i agree with you completely and if the nerf was originally dropping it to 15-30% dr then i would be mad at this but i wouldn't be about to quit the game. which i am now very close too doing. for them to take the heart of the GWF and reducing it so much is a slap in the face. where do the delvs get there money from the advertises? i haven't seen any advertisements, have you? then where oh wait could it be the players? no it couldn't be the people they just slapped in the face.
ok , ok i understand people are saying their own opinions, but from these stupid whines you cryptic / devs will do alot of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> updates... stop listening to tards who whine about the op classes, cause it's not the class itself, only the build their are doing from scratch : chosing race/ability scores / items after that the skills/encouters of the class makes the player op in pvp, but you only listen to tards who are 12gs pve geared who pvp 3-4 times per day facing a good gwf who kill at them without a problem...cause he has alot of armor pen and they suck ... either way .. if you wanted to do a good update on the classes
fix Roar / and control resist , change the pvp bonus on hr set , grow the tr damage but remove some of his stealth , the cw are good as their are atm, being support, even a 1 cw with hv without pvp gear can debuff the gwf without a problem... and the GF, just chose already, alot of HP!?!? DEfense!?!? fix that ...find a better way ... there are people who pvp alot and listen to their opinions, from pvp guilds, not from people who whine ...
and with the unstopable 5-10% ? you joking right? i have 42% damage resitance and doing CN and sometimes i die so fast even using unstopable as it is, if you decrease the effect, the gwf wil be glass canon...
if you want to distinguish a pvp char make the sentinel paragon more attractive, not to say that you guys nerfed the weapon master, if i get proned/stun the effect from weapon master dissapers so my 10% deflect from it... so make the sentinel paragon more attractive... like making Restoring Strike , to deal some damage, in PVE it's great but in PVP it's like there is no armor penetration in that skill ...
or nerf the unstopable but make ferecious heals to proc faster , but why would we nerf unstopable? ...
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2014
Sorry guys and gals but the feedback forums were becoming quite a mess of back and forth with a lot of insults, you're rights and you're wrongs rather than actual feedback of your own opinions.
I tried to leave as much direct feedback as I could but while reading so much I likely did grab some things that could have arguably been left behind. If you feel a specific post should be left behind feel free to PM me but the simpler alternative is to just reaffirm your feedback using direct feedback, preferably using the format the developers requested.
The only non-direct feedback I did intentionally leave were the simple "I agree" posts as it at least directs the devs to direct feedback.
If you want to continue with the speculation and debates on what the best approach is then please do so here. Thanks!
So far most I'm hearing is. "I die in red, I'm going to quit the game".
I agree the DR is a bit much, but i still managed to solo a 5 man heroic with some footwork. Getting out of red is not really that difficult, but I played my GWF since before mod 1 and we had to do that back then.
I think most of these comments are the result of there being alot of newer gwfs who have just been to used to easymode. (which is most of the gwfs since i never seen so many around before).
i think 10-25% DR reduction would be enough. 5-10% is too punishing for gearing/leveling players.
they why can I get out of red areas with my GWF with sprint? am I a mage or something?
of course if I take too long I can't do it, same with any dodge mechanic. If I take too long then I get hit.
Dodging with sprint doesn't work very well anyway. For example, you can sprint behind a golem and you will still get faceplanted.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2014
For a long time I mainly played in a guild which tried to run a rainbow party. Lot's of fun.
However this one experience we had picking up a pug GWF and CW was a complete nightmare for me as the cleric. The GWF complained I wasn't keeping them healed in Malabog's Castle pre-mod 2 while they never moved other than to get to a new monster to fight. When suggested them to stop face tanking everything they said "I shouldn't have to leave the red."
So, yes there are definitely some GWF's with god-mode complexes who seem to think they are supposed to just be standing still...
They may be able to, especially after Mod 3, but they are not supposed to be able to face tank everything...
For a long time I mainly played in a guild which tried to run a rainbow party. Lot's of fun.
However this one experience we had picking up a pug GWF and CW was a complete nightmare for me as the cleric. The GWF complained I wasn't keeping them healed in Malabog's Castle pre-mod 2 while they never moved other than to get to a new monster to fight. When suggested them to stop face tanking everything they said "I shouldn't have to leave the red."
So, yes there are definitely some GWF's with god-mode complexes who seem to think they are supposed to just be standing still...
They may be able to, especially after Mod 3, but they are not supposed to be able to face tank everything...
Well unless the DEVs change dungeon layouts there's not much of a choice when it comes to senseless add spamming especially for a melee fighter. Already shameful enough seeing GFs hopping around with a raging fangirl mob of undead chasing them.
Roar is also a useless skill now. It was something to at least stall an opponent or group of oppnents long enough to position yourself or your ally.
Now it works simply as an interrupt, and only as that...
Yes, and that is exactly how Roar should work, it was never meant to be more than what it currently is on preview a plain and simple interrupt that helps building determination (and generate aggro when it comes to pve)
In my opinion you overdid it. GWF was in a good place. Roar was buggy. IF he was OP, it was with BIS gear and BIS gear should be powerful. Now there just is not enough return on time/ equip invested in the char. If this goes live, I will strip him and use the gear on another char.
No, Roar was op due to being bugged, it did a lot of stuff thay it shouldn't be doing from silencing to rooting the player, it gave GWF's enough time to do whatever they wanted with the oponent.
It'amazing how many gwf's clearly don't understand why such power was so strong and why everyone was using it, it trully seems like many people just jumped on the bandwagon and copied whatever everyone said was the best without even understanding why it was the best.
I also don't want to see the class sent into uselessness again but, Roar finaly got what was already long overdue, whoever says otherwise is just plain delusional or trying to defend something they absolutely needed/relied on to get an advantage (in other words, a crotch).
I also don't want to decredit whoever plays GWF's, there are many great players out there that dind't rely on Roar to be successfull. With whatever changes come (wich I hope are adjusted to maintain the class viable because I also play one and have put a lot of resources into him), those good players will just adapt and move on.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited June 2014
So basically the Destroyer GWF has become the new HR? Agro, and die unless you're decked to the nine hells in life steal and the works.
Yes, and that is exactly how Roar should work, it was never meant to be more than what it currently is on preview a plain and simple interrupt that helps building determination (and generate aggro when it comes to pve)
No, Roar was op due to being bugged, it did a lot of stuff thay it shouldn't be doing from silencing to rooting the player, it gave GWF's enough time to do whatever they wanted with the oponent.
It'amazing how many gwf's clearly don't understand why such power was so strong and why everyone was using it, it trully seems like many people just jumped on the bandwagon and copied whatever everyone said was the best without even understanding why it was the best.
I also don't want to see the class sent into uselessness again but, Roar finaly got what was already long overdue, whoever says otherwise is just plain delusional or trying to defend something they absolutely needed/relied on to get an advantage (in other words, a crotch).
I also don't want to decredit whoever plays GWF's, there are many great players out there that dind't rely on Roar to be successfull. With whatever changes come (wich I hope are adjusted to maintain the class viable because I also play one and have put a lot of resources into him), those good players will just adapt and move on.
You should read more careful. I stated, that roar is buggy. I went on if HE (GWF) was OP... . English is not my first language, but I am quite sure, that a skill is not male.
So basically the Destroyer GWF has become the new HR? Agro, and die unless you're decked to the nine hells in life steal and the works.
No, new DC with one heal and no dodge. Live HR is great in PVP. No I am not talking about 14k GS PVE HRs in PVP but 16k+ PVP HRs.
New HR is the big brother of live GWF. Insane damage in PVE and incredible selfheal in PVP (you should have heard the manic laughter of our HR on preview).
Maybe I should whine with my DC for the next two month after mod 4 and become the new OP class.^^
Yes, and that is exactly how Roar should work, it was never meant to be more than what it currently is on preview a plain and simple interrupt that helps building determination (and generate aggro when it comes to pve)
No, Roar was op due to being bugged, it did a lot of stuff thay it shouldn't be doing from silencing to rooting the player, it gave GWF's enough time to do whatever they wanted with the oponent.
It'amazing how many gwf's clearly don't understand why such power was so strong and why everyone was using it, it trully seems like many people just jumped on the bandwagon and copied whatever everyone said was the best without even understanding why it was the best.
I also don't want to see the class sent into uselessness again but, Roar finaly got what was already long overdue, whoever says otherwise is just plain delusional or trying to defend something they absolutely needed/relied on to get an advantage (in other words, a crotch).
I also don't want to decredit whoever plays GWF's, there are many great players out there that dind't rely on Roar to be successfull. With whatever changes come (wich I hope are adjusted to maintain the class viable because I also play one and have put a lot of resources into him), those good players will just adapt and move on.
For what little it's worth, i dont use Roar. And my issue mainly with the patch is simply the Unstoppable nerf, it is simply too much.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
The first encounter I went to was "The Totem of Auril" the one closest to the entrance in the frozen lake with the undead.
On live this fight is a challenge, I can beat it but it takes a lot of running around and I die faily often due to lag and the fact I continue to take damage well after I run out of the aoe. But I can beat it if I pay attention.
On test, I got absolutely wrecked, I couldn't beat the first phase. I know this fight has dodgy mechanics so I ran back and just got flat out wrecked again. I tried one more time and was unable to get past the first phase.
At this point I knew it was bad.
I don't like to post in feedback threads because the comments are usually ignored but I'm curious to know what skill setup are you using for your tests. Are you using vanguard artifact? That's good for dungeons but a better choice if you want to solo HE or w/e would be GWF sigil because we lost resistance, this artifact is much more useful now. Are you using slam? It's a very bad skill for solo, SS or even AoS are better, if you have a high life steal you will be able to get your HP back to full in 1 second. We used to have a lot of DR thanks to unstoppable so we were never worried about HP/Def/Deflection, maybe it's time use these stats for PvE, after all we are soldiers/fighters, we can't go around like glass cannons but I'm thinking about these changes only for CN or another difficult instance. (Endless consumption is a very good option too).
Anyway, I didn't make any change to my gear yet (full AoW+CBI MH/OH), I tried to solo The Totem of Auril and I was still able to do it without dying, used a couple of pots and had to run a bit as usually due to the CD in my skills or the adds doing the red areas in the same spot, even a couple of giants rushed in but not really a problem, if I equip the PBI gear reaching 65% BI resistance (4 pieces set+MH/OH) it would be even easier. I still need to test more.
These HE aren't supposed to be soloed, they are for 2/3/5 players min, some people will still be able to do it due to their high GS and/or playing skills, etc but if people dies trying to solo them, there's nothing wrong about it.
These HE aren't supposed to be soloed, they are for 2/3/5 players min, some people will still be able to do it due to their high GS and/or playing skills, etc but if people dies trying to solo them, there's nothing wrong about it.
I see it different. All DD-classes with decent gear can solo 2/3 ppl HEs. As this Mod is about balancing he should be able to do it. On Mod 4 a HR can do them (tested) TR should (no changes) CW I did not test, but with OF it should still be doable. If you need to gear up to 19k+ GS, to deal/sustain the same dmg as the other DDs with 3K less GS, then the balancing is off.
As an addendum to that last post, i can only imagine how grueling, horrifying, and downright hellish leveling a GWF would be with these changes.
y devs thinks every GWF is insta 60 full perfect and r10 with 3 L artifacts
they probly did the tests on training dummies.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
In addition, this will make GWF's not even be able to at least handle a couple of stray monsters on thier own that arent minion level.
Dont get me started in PVP. GWF's are no longer fighters. They're just rogues with even less survivablity. Get in, hit a target and hope to do as much damage as possible, then run or die. If the GWF stays, whose gonna care? 10% of your damage is lowered, a bit of CC immunity. So what? They're almost dead anyway by that time.
This just takes the fighter out of Great Weapon Fighter.
Not to mention this drastically takes away from hybrid builds. Those that generally do damage but can adjust to off tanking when need to.
Dungeons and pvp are going to be a horrible mess. Not so much for Heroic encounters because theres always chances of many more people to come to compensate, but that shouldnt be anything to judge about in relevance to this, as that can be said for any and every class.
One thing i want to ask. Are these subject to change? It's allready unanimous the Unstoppable nerf goes to far, but are they really going to change it?
One thing i want to ask. Are these subject to change? It's allready unanimous the Unstoppable nerf goes to far, but are they really going to change it?
They did modify the previous GWF changes for module 3 based on feedback/complaints/outrage, so maybe.
Comments
Those rants synthesizes in few lines as bad are mentality now the majority of GWF players and the God mode of a idiot proof class.
The remark on red areas and unstoppable is hilarius.
I wish we knew the data on which this claim is based upon.
The leader board (if it is of any worth) shows a different picture. Numbers are toons in the first 100 ranks with toons in the first 20 ranks given in parentheses.
GWF: 38 (6)
HR: 26 (10)
TR: 32 (4)
CW: 3 (0)
GF: 1 (0)
DC: 0 (0)
This does NOT show a dominance of the GWF. It rather shows that GWF, HR, and TR seem to perform equally good, while the rest cannot compete. Unfortunately we do not know anything about the relative distribution of toons participating in PvP. If a class would be greatly preferred it would of course be "dominating" the leader board.
It would be very sad if the changes to Unstoppable are based on a false assumption.
why don't you do ToS/CN/MC/VT with a GF that sits there with there 80% resistance and huge treat generation dealing no damage because they have to put a shield up(yes they can still hit on enemy). while you have a GWF/CW hitting all of them doing a good amount of DPS. some of thoughs adds are going to turn around and attack the CW and GWF and guess what CW is going to dodge out of the Way while the GWF is going to "get bigger" and take 95-90% of the damage they would do with out "getting bigger." so in order for the GF too take all that agro back he has to have the fast cool downs.
so thats going to be the strategy right?
well AOE from bosses are going to knock all of the other toons other than the GWF and GF back or even us back(CN and MC bosses do this) and we as the GWF with no dodge mechanic will take all but 90-95% of that damage.
now lets talk valindra she hits everyone for a good amount of damage also we have to do caskets during which we have no life steal to keep us alive and no ranged power(front-line surge and threatening rush dont count and ranged) to get some life steal heals. last phase when all them op adds roll up and start to say hi in there oh so deadly way called lunging at our face with a giant sword. and lets see how a GF with his shield can handle all that. by that time the GWF is already dead due too being able to take 3 hits while "being Bigger" and getting downed.
ToS "Hey GF take the boss and add while we kill the boss ok?" 20 sec latter "GF x_x due too being surrounded with exploding adds all around them with a shield that blocks in a 180-200 degree raidus(incorrect i think but you get my point) and now we as the "supposed fighter class from D&D have to tank" and Guess what DO DAMAGE.... party wipe back to the drawling board.
This preview patch is feel like nerf all class to make the dungeon harder and take longer time to finish it. Nerf the survivability of GWF to make the GF to be necessary in every dungeon. (I play both GWF and GF)
wheres our dodge mechanic if you say sprint you sir are wrong that is not a dodge because even if we are out of the circle we still get hit unstopable was the only reason that we survived.
of course if I take too long I can't do it, same with any dodge mechanic. If I take too long then I get hit.
i agree with you completely and if the nerf was originally dropping it to 15-30% dr then i would be mad at this but i wouldn't be about to quit the game. which i am now very close too doing. for them to take the heart of the GWF and reducing it so much is a slap in the face. where do the delvs get there money from the advertises? i haven't seen any advertisements, have you? then where oh wait could it be the players? no it couldn't be the people they just slapped in the face.
fix Roar / and control resist , change the pvp bonus on hr set , grow the tr damage but remove some of his stealth , the cw are good as their are atm, being support, even a 1 cw with hv without pvp gear can debuff the gwf without a problem... and the GF, just chose already, alot of HP!?!? DEfense!?!? fix that ...find a better way ... there are people who pvp alot and listen to their opinions, from pvp guilds, not from people who whine ...
and with the unstopable 5-10% ? you joking right? i have 42% damage resitance and doing CN and sometimes i die so fast even using unstopable as it is, if you decrease the effect, the gwf wil be glass canon...
if you want to distinguish a pvp char make the sentinel paragon more attractive, not to say that you guys nerfed the weapon master, if i get proned/stun the effect from weapon master dissapers so my 10% deflect from it... so make the sentinel paragon more attractive... like making Restoring Strike , to deal some damage, in PVE it's great but in PVP it's like there is no armor penetration in that skill ...
or nerf the unstopable but make ferecious heals to proc faster , but why would we nerf unstopable? ...
I tried to leave as much direct feedback as I could but while reading so much I likely did grab some things that could have arguably been left behind. If you feel a specific post should be left behind feel free to PM me but the simpler alternative is to just reaffirm your feedback using direct feedback, preferably using the format the developers requested.
The only non-direct feedback I did intentionally leave were the simple "I agree" posts as it at least directs the devs to direct feedback.
If you want to continue with the speculation and debates on what the best approach is then please do so here. Thanks!
I agree the DR is a bit much, but i still managed to solo a 5 man heroic with some footwork. Getting out of red is not really that difficult, but I played my GWF since before mod 1 and we had to do that back then.
I think most of these comments are the result of there being alot of newer gwfs who have just been to used to easymode. (which is most of the gwfs since i never seen so many around before).
i think 10-25% DR reduction would be enough. 5-10% is too punishing for gearing/leveling players.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Dodging with sprint doesn't work very well anyway. For example, you can sprint behind a golem and you will still get faceplanted.
However this one experience we had picking up a pug GWF and CW was a complete nightmare for me as the cleric. The GWF complained I wasn't keeping them healed in Malabog's Castle pre-mod 2 while they never moved other than to get to a new monster to fight. When suggested them to stop face tanking everything they said "I shouldn't have to leave the red."
So, yes there are definitely some GWF's with god-mode complexes who seem to think they are supposed to just be standing still...
They may be able to, especially after Mod 3, but they are not supposed to be able to face tank everything...
Well unless the DEVs change dungeon layouts there's not much of a choice when it comes to senseless add spamming especially for a melee fighter. Already shameful enough seeing GFs hopping around with a raging fangirl mob of undead chasing them.
Yes, and that is exactly how Roar should work, it was never meant to be more than what it currently is on preview a plain and simple interrupt that helps building determination (and generate aggro when it comes to pve)
No, Roar was op due to being bugged, it did a lot of stuff thay it shouldn't be doing from silencing to rooting the player, it gave GWF's enough time to do whatever they wanted with the oponent.
Here is an explanation to both the responses, a quote from gentlemancrush, a game developer: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?674281-So-is-Roar-supposed-to&p=8015091&viewfull=1#post8015091
It'amazing how many gwf's clearly don't understand why such power was so strong and why everyone was using it, it trully seems like many people just jumped on the bandwagon and copied whatever everyone said was the best without even understanding why it was the best.
I also don't want to see the class sent into uselessness again but, Roar finaly got what was already long overdue, whoever says otherwise is just plain delusional or trying to defend something they absolutely needed/relied on to get an advantage (in other words, a crotch).
I also don't want to decredit whoever plays GWF's, there are many great players out there that dind't rely on Roar to be successfull. With whatever changes come (wich I hope are adjusted to maintain the class viable because I also play one and have put a lot of resources into him), those good players will just adapt and move on.
You should read more careful. I stated, that roar is buggy. I went on if HE (GWF) was OP... . English is not my first language, but I am quite sure, that a skill is not male.
No, new DC with one heal and no dodge. Live HR is great in PVP. No I am not talking about 14k GS PVE HRs in PVP but 16k+ PVP HRs.
New HR is the big brother of live GWF. Insane damage in PVE and incredible selfheal in PVP (you should have heard the manic laughter of our HR on preview).
Maybe I should whine with my DC for the next two month after mod 4 and become the new OP class.^^
For what little it's worth, i dont use Roar. And my issue mainly with the patch is simply the Unstoppable nerf, it is simply too much.
I don't like to post in feedback threads because the comments are usually ignored but I'm curious to know what skill setup are you using for your tests. Are you using vanguard artifact? That's good for dungeons but a better choice if you want to solo HE or w/e would be GWF sigil because we lost resistance, this artifact is much more useful now. Are you using slam? It's a very bad skill for solo, SS or even AoS are better, if you have a high life steal you will be able to get your HP back to full in 1 second. We used to have a lot of DR thanks to unstoppable so we were never worried about HP/Def/Deflection, maybe it's time use these stats for PvE, after all we are soldiers/fighters, we can't go around like glass cannons but I'm thinking about these changes only for CN or another difficult instance. (Endless consumption is a very good option too).
Anyway, I didn't make any change to my gear yet (full AoW+CBI MH/OH), I tried to solo The Totem of Auril and I was still able to do it without dying, used a couple of pots and had to run a bit as usually due to the CD in my skills or the adds doing the red areas in the same spot, even a couple of giants rushed in but not really a problem, if I equip the PBI gear reaching 65% BI resistance (4 pieces set+MH/OH) it would be even easier. I still need to test more.
These HE aren't supposed to be soloed, they are for 2/3/5 players min, some people will still be able to do it due to their high GS and/or playing skills, etc but if people dies trying to solo them, there's nothing wrong about it.
I see it different. All DD-classes with decent gear can solo 2/3 ppl HEs. As this Mod is about balancing he should be able to do it. On Mod 4 a HR can do them (tested) TR should (no changes) CW I did not test, but with OF it should still be doable. If you need to gear up to 19k+ GS, to deal/sustain the same dmg as the other DDs with 3K less GS, then the balancing is off.
y devs thinks every GWF is insta 60 full perfect and r10 with 3 L artifacts
they probly did the tests on training dummies.
Dont get me started in PVP. GWF's are no longer fighters. They're just rogues with even less survivablity. Get in, hit a target and hope to do as much damage as possible, then run or die. If the GWF stays, whose gonna care? 10% of your damage is lowered, a bit of CC immunity. So what? They're almost dead anyway by that time.
This just takes the fighter out of Great Weapon Fighter.
Not to mention this drastically takes away from hybrid builds. Those that generally do damage but can adjust to off tanking when need to.
Dungeons and pvp are going to be a horrible mess. Not so much for Heroic encounters because theres always chances of many more people to come to compensate, but that shouldnt be anything to judge about in relevance to this, as that can be said for any and every class.
They did modify the previous GWF changes for module 3 based on feedback/complaints/outrage, so maybe.
I'll keep my finger's crossed. I hope they do lisen, as i want the class to survive on it's own merit's.