Luckily for me my old main was a HR and they appear to be only slightly worse off in PVP and are planned to have drastic buffs in PVE.
For my fellow GWFs I feel your pain. The changes as current drastically nerf GWF and will take them from one of the two strongest classes in PVP and make them underpowered in PVP, they won't be any stronger than a GF. Unstoppable won't save you when your low, all our CC will be subject to CC +resist, you won't be able to use an At-Will in between stuns because they won't be stunned for that long. Rogues will be able to ITC out of takedown/frontline meaning in a 1v1 unless the rogue makes a big mistake, an ISB will never touch them. (edit: they can dodge the IBS after take/frontline without using ITC anyways)
Vs CW is a fight whose tables have been turned, with the threatening rush nerf plus repel working in full effect against Unstoppable means the fight will be drastically in favor of the CW. Not to mention any CW that saves at least 1 dodge worth of stamina will always be able to avoid IBS damage as long as they have the 10% CC resist racial.
The changes as current are way over the top. The majority of powers of the GWF in PVP are slated to get nerfed. Precedent has already been set and regardless of what tweaks to the changes are made, it's clear they want GWF nerfed all around and hard in most fronts.
These changes are a bad idea as they are currently laid out. Yes GWF was/is currently overpowered. But it was known they were strong in both PVE and PVP and many of the players in my guild have long already re-rolled a GWF for PVE and especially PVP. Yes they can all go back to their old mains, but after you consider all the irl cash we have all put into these characters, it is not right to nerf them to the point where they will be weak in PVP. The changes as currently slated are way too over the top.
edit: just finished testing on test.
On live, after a takedown, the GWF has time to use a threatening rush and then use IBS on the target. Currently on test, if the target has the CC resist from the racial, after a takedown, IBS can be dodged, even if it is cast immediately following takedown.
Not only can an At-Will not be used in between takedown and IBS, but IBS cannot be landed on a frontline or takedown target if they use dodge even if an At-Will is not used. If an At-Will is used after takedown/frontline, the target can walk out of range of IBS without needing to use a dodge.
I think on top of all this, one of the worse concequences is that it makes being a halfling or other race with +10% CC resist be even stronger in PVP than currently.
they could finally give us GWFs individual paragon path and leave poor GFs alone.
Heh, seeing your posts I more and more believe you don't even play a GWF, just a GF. Well, those changes look like the GF will end up on top anyway, and if we would agree that a prone is OP on a GWF, it's OP on a GF too.
Heh, seeing your posts I more and more believe you don't even play a GWF, just a GF. Well, those changes look like the GF will end up on top anyway, and if we would agree that a prone is OP on a GWF, it's OP on a GF too.
i play all classes and they just wrecked all of my builds with this Tyranny of Nerfbats
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i play all classes and they just wrecked all of my builds with this Tyranny of Nerfbats
Well, if they 'wrecked' all builds perhaps they will all be just as good compared to each other, like they were before Besides dungeons being harder, if in the end classes are balanced in a better way, won't it be a good thing?
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Heh, seeing your posts I more and more believe you don't even play a GWF, just a GF. Well, those changes look like the GF will end up on top anyway, and if we would agree that a prone is OP on a GWF, it's OP on a GF too.
The difference being with prone for a GWF is that GWF's can take you out in a prone chain, they have the mad offense.
GF's lack that offense quite badly. Thier prones are stalls. They do decent damage, but much more unlikely they'll put someone out for the count in a prone chain.
But there aren't any players that will die in a single combo against a GWF if they are geared for PVP. The problem with these changes as currently written and on the PTR, is that IBS can be dodged after both takedown and frontline surge.
Not to mention your sig lists you as 19k which is 3000 GS higher than me. And you can see what I was using and everything about my character in the pictures.
That's irrelevant. Man, you have almost 5k critical stat, do you have any idea about how bad is that for a character? Have you ever heard about diminishing returns?
I don't think the game should be balanced around the 1% of players who have all rank 10 runes all gold artifacts and all perfect enchants and only use the absolute best crafted gear and fully ranked up companions.
"Balance" for you means that a character is able to solo encounters? Also, the devs needs feedback from people with high and low GS, with every change the more affected players are those with low gs.
Well whatever I guess, keep questioning peoples results and we'll see where GWF's end up...
I'm not questioning peoples results, I'm said I'm curious about how have you done your tests, if we are going to provide feedback at least we should do it right, so far you didn't mentioned which skill setup you used. Seeing 5k crit stat and slam slotted for PvE tells me a lot about you and your character but don't worry I'll stop here, if the devs pay attention to people like you, it would be a buff for the good players, keep posting your tests please. Thank you!
Edited to add: I hope you use your Destroyer in PVP cause your going to be in for one rude awakening no matter how high your GS is.
A lot of people said the same when the DG was fixed, a lot of QQ and "I'm quitting" threads but if there's something I have seen in almost a year playing this game is that the good players always find a way to make their characters good and viable for everything. The biggest problem here is that most players always make a comparison between the live char and the preview char expecting that nothing will change but hey if your problem is the survivability try the same Heroic Encounters with a different skill setup, more defensive stats and let us know you experience.
Are you stating than having "slam" slotted means that GWF is a bad player?
Why you quote only a part of the paragraph? I wrote 5k crit + slam, which is bad considering that slam doesn't crit i.e plus it's a support skill, it is not optimal for PvE solo when there are better dailies like SS and AoS and he's not even using Battle Awareness to make it a bit less bad.
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the main reason you came into this thread was just to stroke your e-peen by telling me how bad I am compared to you. And in no way are you here to discuss the changes. W/E guy...
Again, since you don't seem to understand. I don't have a a lot of problems with these events on live and on test they are difficult or impossible "FOR ME" "USING THE EXACT SAME GEAR AND SPEC".
Anways, i'm not going to talk to you or acknowledge you any further.
Self-esteem problems, dude? Actually, I'm trying to help you but for some reason you are on the defensive. I didn't come here to make a comparison between me and others, this is a feedback thread, you gave yours using a not optimal skill setup including gear, skills, etc and I gave mine. Probably, more gwfs will give their feedback too. If something is difficult for you or impossible, doesn't mean it has to be same for others.
Yes!! Yes!!! just to expand a bit more your post, you can also go PvP with Mighty Leap, which is an AoE damage dodge, do the prone attack (FLS or Flourish) and run away with the 3 charges on Pushing Charge!! with this strat in mind, the DEVs just made the Instigator Path viable. Studen of the Sword -> Vicious Advantage -> Reinforced Surge/Stunning Flourish -> Nimble Runner -> Allied Opportunity -> Instigator's vengance for the win in PvP!!!!!!!
loooooool mighty leap in pvp and instigator vangace could be good in pvp if fls+takedown would still prone and even then would be far worse then destroyer
feedback sentinel: sentinel aegis-buff it so let it give +20-30% incoming healing bonus , if we spec sentinel we wont deal any dmg so let us have a bit more survaviblity. also since u already killed unstoppable i suggest you to bring us our old Bravery class feature +15% deflect chance bring back old Master At Arms feat where it give 3% deflect per stack instead of 2 and again since unstoppable is dead let the temp hp from it ignore HD + give us old +10-20% temp hp from it.
That is simply not true. Sentinels slot Weapon Master as passive and have very high crit chance, they also slot Greater and Perfect Vorpals. Lets speak with numbers, a Destroyer can easily crits 30K IBS in PVE, a Sent crits for 17-18K PVE.. So what was that about no damage ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
Oks, then, my fault due that "AND". I took it as "and" instead of "plus". Sorry. But talking about that (and yes, i know the diminishing stuff), i do not think is a bad choice (the combo, not the 5k+ crit) cause it will aggro a lot, do a lot of damage due your slashes and recover a lot of life with Lifesteal (in fact, thats the combo i use when PvE, but then, i have 3k crit and 1.2k LF. XD)
Most of the aggro generated by the GWF comes from his damage, more than using a skill/daily that builds threat (in case you have a lot of damage ofc). Spinning Strike can crit, have a high dps, guaranteed deflection and control immunity so it's great when you are dealing with many mobs because you will be healed to full thanks to your life steal meanwhile Slam have a very low damage and works slowly like 1 tick each 0.5/1 sec, doesn't benefit of crit that you are wasting your vorpal if you are using one. You can always interrupt SS and keep some AP for the next group of mobs but you can't interrupt slam, even feated is not good enough because in order to add some points there, means you are losing points in another feat that is more useful.
That is simply not true. Sentinels slot Weapon Master as passive and have very high crit chance, they also slot Greater and Perfect Vorpals. Lets speak with numbers, a Destroyer can easily crits 30K IBS in PVE, a Sent crits for 17-18K PVE.. So what was that about no damage ?
Have to actually land that attack though. With a 0.2 sec stun from takedown and I imagine a similar thing from FLS when they patch that sents will have a very hard time actually getting to an opponent to hit them.
Have to actually land that attack though. With a 0.2 sec stun from takedown and I imagine a similar thing from FLS when they patch that sents will have a very hard time actually getting to an opponent to hit them.
Honestly, I would hope so. The last thing the game needs is the Second Coming of THE Sentinel if you get my drift
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Honestly, I would hope so. The last thing the game needs is the Second Coming of THE Sentinel if you get my drift
With a 0.2sec stun you'll never land an IBS without a daily.
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited June 2014
Good job, guys. I especially like the change to Unstoppable.
Currently destroyers run ahead of everybody else in dungeons, aggroing everything and can still survive while dealing massive amounts of damage and with no risk of dying at all. This basically makes GFs useless and makes their life terribly difficult in doing their job if they are present.
The best way to run dungeons at the moment is aggroing everything in one place and nuking it, that's why CW and GWF are the best classes in dungeon runs. With the changes you made this will be more difficult and more cooperation between classes will be needed.
Thumbs up (both of them)!
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
Slam have a "aggro" buff on itself plus a bast wide range of tremblor (it has more range than AoS and, of course, Spinning). On my case, is not to deal damage, but to aggro mobs ourside my weapon range... ^^U . also, i do not use Vorpal, instead, i use Plaguefire
If a CW cast Arcane Singularity and you use spinning strike in the center of the spell, there will be no need to aggro dead mobs. However, that's for PvE in dungeons, don't forget that my comments were based in solo play. On my case, I'm focused in dealing high damage but if you like to play as support that's great, actually, I'm expecting that the devs work in the Instigator tree as some kind of support role, that would be useful and a very good alternative.
Hope you will not complaing even once when you cant finish a dungeon due that...
You can finish every dungeon in the game with a rainbow group having only one person per class. So why shouldn't you be able to finish dungeons after the patch? Just because you can't faceroll roflstomp CWFpwn it? seriously, l2p.
You can finish every dungeon in the game with a rainbow group having only one person per class. So why shouldn't you be able to finish dungeons after the patch? Just because you can't faceroll roflstomp CWFpwn it? seriously, l2p.
go preview make ur rainbow pt and then do CN and tell me how it go.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
How many of you folks that are complaining about Unstoppable have actually tested in on Preview? I have and it is good exactly where it is at the moment with 5-10%, where you need to use potions and step out of red circles rather than facetank them en masse.
Will it require you to adjust your build/items/enchants/companion actives? yes it will, but that is to be expected and a good thing. If you want to continue dealing the insane amount of damage as on live, you will have to sacrifice survivability for it now, rather than be able to have both.
Also, something to keep in mind: the old 25-50% rarely ever gave you as much as 50% in the first place due to the 80% reduction hard cap. Destroyer GWFs (unless complete glass cannons) tend to have around 48% DR already without party buffs, so you only had up to 32% DR boost from Unstoppable before anyway.
With the new Unstoppable, bringing a DC along will keep you at your 80% DR cap just as it does on Live and you won't notice any difference. The only folks noticing a difference are those who run dungeons without DCs (or DCs that heal)
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Comments
For my fellow GWFs I feel your pain. The changes as current drastically nerf GWF and will take them from one of the two strongest classes in PVP and make them underpowered in PVP, they won't be any stronger than a GF. Unstoppable won't save you when your low, all our CC will be subject to CC +resist, you won't be able to use an At-Will in between stuns because they won't be stunned for that long. Rogues will be able to ITC out of takedown/frontline meaning in a 1v1 unless the rogue makes a big mistake, an ISB will never touch them. (edit: they can dodge the IBS after take/frontline without using ITC anyways)
Vs CW is a fight whose tables have been turned, with the threatening rush nerf plus repel working in full effect against Unstoppable means the fight will be drastically in favor of the CW. Not to mention any CW that saves at least 1 dodge worth of stamina will always be able to avoid IBS damage as long as they have the 10% CC resist racial.
The changes as current are way over the top. The majority of powers of the GWF in PVP are slated to get nerfed. Precedent has already been set and regardless of what tweaks to the changes are made, it's clear they want GWF nerfed all around and hard in most fronts.
These changes are a bad idea as they are currently laid out. Yes GWF was/is currently overpowered. But it was known they were strong in both PVE and PVP and many of the players in my guild have long already re-rolled a GWF for PVE and especially PVP. Yes they can all go back to their old mains, but after you consider all the irl cash we have all put into these characters, it is not right to nerf them to the point where they will be weak in PVP. The changes as currently slated are way too over the top.
edit: just finished testing on test.
On live, after a takedown, the GWF has time to use a threatening rush and then use IBS on the target. Currently on test, if the target has the CC resist from the racial, after a takedown, IBS can be dodged, even if it is cast immediately following takedown.
Not only can an At-Will not be used in between takedown and IBS, but IBS cannot be landed on a frontline or takedown target if they use dodge even if an At-Will is not used. If an At-Will is used after takedown/frontline, the target can walk out of range of IBS without needing to use a dodge.
I think on top of all this, one of the worse concequences is that it makes being a halfling or other race with +10% CC resist be even stronger in PVP than currently.
Heh, seeing your posts I more and more believe you don't even play a GWF, just a GF. Well, those changes look like the GF will end up on top anyway, and if we would agree that a prone is OP on a GWF, it's OP on a GF too.
Well, if they 'wrecked' all builds perhaps they will all be just as good compared to each other, like they were before
The difference being with prone for a GWF is that GWF's can take you out in a prone chain, they have the mad offense.
GF's lack that offense quite badly. Thier prones are stalls. They do decent damage, but much more unlikely they'll put someone out for the count in a prone chain.
How am I missing the point? I'm doing the same, I posted the effect of the changes to me too.
Well, this says a lot about you as GWF.
That's irrelevant. Man, you have almost 5k critical stat, do you have any idea about how bad is that for a character? Have you ever heard about diminishing returns?
"Balance" for you means that a character is able to solo encounters? Also, the devs needs feedback from people with high and low GS, with every change the more affected players are those with low gs.
I'm not questioning peoples results, I'm said I'm curious about how have you done your tests, if we are going to provide feedback at least we should do it right, so far you didn't mentioned which skill setup you used. Seeing 5k crit stat and slam slotted for PvE tells me a lot about you and your character but don't worry I'll stop here, if the devs pay attention to people like you, it would be a buff for the good players, keep posting your tests please. Thank you!
A lot of people said the same when the DG was fixed, a lot of QQ and "I'm quitting" threads but if there's something I have seen in almost a year playing this game is that the good players always find a way to make their characters good and viable for everything. The biggest problem here is that most players always make a comparison between the live char and the preview char expecting that nothing will change but hey if your problem is the survivability try the same Heroic Encounters with a different skill setup, more defensive stats and let us know you experience.
Why you quote only a part of the paragraph? I wrote 5k crit + slam, which is bad considering that slam doesn't crit
Self-esteem problems, dude? Actually, I'm trying to help you but for some reason you are on the defensive. I didn't come here to make a comparison between me and others, this is a feedback thread, you gave yours using a not optimal skill setup including gear, skills, etc and I gave mine. Probably, more gwfs will give their feedback too. If something is difficult for you or impossible, doesn't mean it has to be same for others.
loooooool mighty leap in pvp and instigator vangace could be good in pvp if fls+takedown would still prone and even then would be far worse then destroyer
That is simply not true. Sentinels slot Weapon Master as passive and have very high crit chance, they also slot Greater and Perfect Vorpals. Lets speak with numbers, a Destroyer can easily crits 30K IBS in PVE, a Sent crits for 17-18K PVE.. So what was that about no damage ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Most of the aggro generated by the GWF comes from his damage, more than using a skill/daily that builds threat (in case you have a lot of damage ofc). Spinning Strike can crit, have a high dps, guaranteed deflection and control immunity so it's great when you are dealing with many mobs because you will be healed to full thanks to your life steal meanwhile Slam have a very low damage and works slowly like 1 tick each 0.5/1 sec, doesn't benefit of crit that you are wasting your vorpal if you are using one. You can always interrupt SS and keep some AP for the next group of mobs but you can't interrupt slam, even feated is not good enough because in order to add some points there, means you are losing points in another feat that is more useful.
Have to actually land that attack though. With a 0.2 sec stun from takedown and I imagine a similar thing from FLS when they patch that sents will have a very hard time actually getting to an opponent to hit them.
Honestly, I would hope so. The last thing the game needs is the Second Coming of THE Sentinel if you get my drift
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
With a 0.2sec stun you'll never land an IBS without a daily.
Currently destroyers run ahead of everybody else in dungeons, aggroing everything and can still survive while dealing massive amounts of damage and with no risk of dying at all. This basically makes GFs useless and makes their life terribly difficult in doing their job if they are present.
The best way to run dungeons at the moment is aggroing everything in one place and nuking it, that's why CW and GWF are the best classes in dungeon runs. With the changes you made this will be more difficult and more cooperation between classes will be needed.
Thumbs up (both of them)!
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
If a CW cast Arcane Singularity and you use spinning strike in the center of the spell, there will be no need to aggro dead mobs. However, that's for PvE in dungeons, don't forget that my comments were based in solo play. On my case, I'm focused in dealing high damage but if you like to play as support that's great, actually, I'm expecting that the devs work in the Instigator tree as some kind of support role, that would be useful and a very good alternative.
You can finish every dungeon in the game with a rainbow group having only one person per class. So why shouldn't you be able to finish dungeons after the patch? Just because you can't faceroll roflstomp CWFpwn it? seriously, l2p.
Will it require you to adjust your build/items/enchants/companion actives? yes it will, but that is to be expected and a good thing. If you want to continue dealing the insane amount of damage as on live, you will have to sacrifice survivability for it now, rather than be able to have both.
Also, something to keep in mind: the old 25-50% rarely ever gave you as much as 50% in the first place due to the 80% reduction hard cap. Destroyer GWFs (unless complete glass cannons) tend to have around 48% DR already without party buffs, so you only had up to 32% DR boost from Unstoppable before anyway.
With the new Unstoppable, bringing a DC along will keep you at your 80% DR cap just as it does on Live and you won't notice any difference. The only folks noticing a difference are those who run dungeons without DCs (or DCs that heal)
Would be fun to do that.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80