As a tr i don't mind gfws . Some of them are skilled but most of them just swing their swords hitting the air . I don't mind letting them keep their dmg or unstoppable but the only thing on them that needs rework is the range of some skills and how they respond on dodge effects of every class .
You dont mind because you can stealth ITC and run away. No one else can albeit a goof HR.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You dont mind because you can stealth ITC and run away. No one else can albeit a goof HR.
You realise that i we trs getting cced by 100 units range after dodge by the roar gfws got . I got higher survabillity since i got a regen based build but still i am getting cced even on ITC .I don't mind the cc effect on me but i indeed mind the range. Unstoppable is fine . If you know how to burn it out you will eventually kill the gfw.
I think it should have stacks, like... idk... 3 stacks at 5 seconds cooldown each maybe. Its not even short range, that thing has a really long range and yet no stacks or cooldowns. Imagine if TR had Cloud of Steel without any cooldown or stacks... it would be so OP! Why don't they have it on GWF as an insane gap closer wo something that already runs and has CC immunity?
When Threatening Rush lands, the target is still moving, Takedown immediately after Threatening Rush misses on mobile targets. Only Roar's insane arc catches all after Threatening Rush. There is also a thread about Roar, combine the two and you have both eyes crying.
That's not me trying to score cheap points. I've been aversive to doing the above to you with my GWF. Not only does the Malabog's Castle Set 'Nearly' keep up with the T2 dungeon set Avatar of War, but any change to Unstoppable as a downward revision will render that set incompatible with the content.
If you really want the nerf to GWF's have loot issued by a vendor and turn the chests into token machines. The other GWF's will still be told, and then rightly so, that Avatar of War is the only set needed.
As a CW who can kite GWF's, I just want to put this out there. I can kite them for 2 rotations of my own. But after that, their unstoppable overtakes my stamina and I can't kite them because I can't cc them (unstoppable) and I can't dodge their prones (no stamina). Now, I would think that if I can successfully kite them, I should at least make them run away with next to nothing for health, if not outright kill them, but does that happen? Nope, instead they have 3/4th's of their life left due to their insane lifesteal because I have to let them hit me with their abilities that don't prone so I can manage my stamina correctly.
0
doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
What needs to be looked into is the restoration of your Single Target control powers that were NERFed in PvP.
THAT was your method of countering his Unstoppable and knockdown/prones. It Was to use Repel to push him away OR paralyze him or immobilize him.
Once they made the stupid mistake of removing those things from your side of PvP, or shortening their duration to almost nothing, suddenly you're in shoes where all his work... and none of your counters to anything he does works.
Well no wonder you can't compete anymore, and he looks like a GOD.
What REALLY needs to be looked at is the absolute reversal of all the classes PvP nerfs up to this point, as THAT is what caused the current situation... GWFs are just fine and have always been.
Whats MISSING... is your COUNTER to all of their things... so of course... you're now in shoes where all theirs works... none of yours does.
Why the hell you would want to PvP in those shoes in beyond me... I'd just walk away and let them stroke themselves off alone if I were you. Because obviously you're not allowed to participate in PvP... they are.
Another thing that needs a good reversal is the Rogue damage nerfs. These were stupid and short sighted. They would be able to compete with any GWF if they had their damage back.
There was NEVER anything wrong with the GWF powers and abilities... what you ran into was some idiot that did not understand the REAL balance of the classes and suddenly assumed that EVERYONE should fight toe to toe like a GWF...
... forgetting that the other classes are not designed to handle that kind of tank battle.... IT THEY'RE NOT A TANK...
Yes it annoys me.... they created an unbalanced issue, where there was none before through this short sighted lack of understanding.
Its called... shoes of your own making.
All valid points, but I will point out one issue as it applies only to PVP, one issue we have is there is no requirement to queue as a GF DPS/control and heal, pretty much anything can queue so its possible that you could have a team of 2+ GWF against a party of ranged classes. Either the ranged side will lose because they can't fight on the node, or their team mates will pitch a fit that they are not fighting on a node and die horrible deaths trying to appease people by fighting on a node. Another issue that can happen is the ranged people will just pick off those standing on a node so with not retaliation you die capping or trying to cap while you are pelted at will from range trying to hold your node which in the above class make up of teams could lead to almost nothing more than cap trading, the melee side caps the ranged side tries to kill and then cap while they respawn etc.
Personally I agree with everything you said but I think in addition they should make the PVP queue proper groups like it was a dungeon so you are not fighting 3 - 5 GWF or whatever gross make up happens. Sure the queue system will suck as how many people play tanks and clerics for pvp? But maybe just maybe that would start really encouraging people to play other classes or promote other classes. I know in another MMO I played a tank and healer and I always got queues, the dps role was a dime a dozen and you could sit in queue for 30 minutes or longer on days when a lot of people played. I do not know if eventually that balanced out or another system came into place but when you see people saying that a tank or healer can queue almost instantly for content cause not many play those roles then it might spur you to consider switching to another class and create some diversity.
Overall the vast majority of MMO players are egoists who want to dish out the highest possible damage numbers regardless of how helpful they actually are to a team (sometimes they are sometimes all they do is create more trouble by trying to be the first to hit everything even if they are the squishiest class out there).
As to the GWF, one last thing, while mostly I agree they aren't as bad as people say (those sentinels where indeed rather hard to handle but I still managed before tenacity, after is another story) but the fact that they do have pretty good armor and defense kinda defeats their purpose, sure in rage mode they should have a high defense but overall they probably should be pretty low in fact they should probably be in the same class as HR and TR as far as armor goes. The Tank should be the best hands down, the DC should come in under them and then HR GWF and TR followed by CW being the worse (aside from spell usage). Personally my GWF build just spams unstoppable as in PVE as long as there are a bunch of mobs around I can hit it a lot and almost not come out of it. In PVP my AoW set doesnt' seem to do as much for me as others as I feel pretty soft, at 28k health and rank 6 enchants with full AoW set and no tenacity outside of basic 10%, I jsut don't seem to stand up like others. My GWF is pretty new still and I have yet to afford to build up rank 7 enchants in every slot but still he is pretty good cept for PVP. I know my PVP skill with a GWF is almost non existant but i'm an experienced player and I have to say I go down like a drunk cheap prom date. Rarely do I get threatening rush do anything but stutter as I spam it to try to close but its always stopping before hitting it seems or rubber banding me back to where I started.
The other option is to basically say there are only two classes for pvp and they are TR and GWF .... the rest only work for PVE so if you are a pvp junky those are your options lol.
The problem is the unstoppable, i feel that i gives too much power to the gwf while in it. Take a look at the tr stealth meter, they can only use at-will while in stealth, if an encounter is use they break stealth. This should be done with unstoppable, using an encounter will break it rather than using all encounter while in unstoppable.
The problem is the unstoppable, i feel that i gives too much power to the gwf while in it. Take a look at the tr stealth meter, they can only use at-will while in stealth, if an encounter is use they break stealth. This should be done with unstoppable, using an encounter will break it rather than using all encounter while in unstoppable.
The problem is the unstoppable, i feel that i gives too much power to the gwf while in it. Take a look at the tr stealth meter, they can only use at-will while in stealth, if an encounter is use they break stealth. This should be done with unstoppable, using an encounter will break it rather than using all encounter while in unstoppable.
My 2 cent
lol'd, that kinda defeats the given name don't you think? unstoppable stopped with a scratch, nice one..
Everyone is so quick to want Unstoppable nerf'd and Threating rush nerf'd...Ok so lets nerf Threating rush, now GWFs will have no way at all to fight a CW or a HR , they can kite us to no end now when played by good players. Take away TR and we have Zero gap closer, sprint you say? sprint is no help when your out of stamina = dead GWFs and a thousand post's on nerfing those 2 classes so now we are all nerf'd great. We can all stand around hitting each other with sticks.
Then you want them to nerf our next ability which gives us a chance VS other melee and our only want to get out of being controll'd. ..No idea if some of you were around the first few months game was live, but GWF's were basically run into fight die re spawn at camp fire. We do not need to go back to that.
Now instead of complaing to devs about the class and just scream nerf, come up with an IDEA that will replace these said skills that do not totaly make it a bag of c,rap running around with a sword...THANKS! and sorry some folks do not know how to use all there skills the right way to kill another class and would rather complain about it.I know plenty of very good TR's CW's and HR's that can beat down a GWF. maybe ask the one's that know how to do it and i am sure they will help you out.
Only class that i feel for is the GF which i would love to be playing but it don't seem to be on the radar yet.
You ever encounter one of those DC cluster groups? 2 CW, HR, ect piled around a DC in a astral shield. Unless you're a GWF and/or the DC isn't tanky it's almost impossible to put a dent in that.
Oh yeah I did, and even found some with that ridiculous spec with full blues def/regen which is quite impossible to beat. Haven't seen those anymore though. About 1~2 months I don't find those clerics.
My point is, for instance, I'm geared with full T2 or full profound righteous + profound necklace/rings/belt + elven battle. Even so I get controlled/prone/slowed/rooted/frozen/mutted and completely owned by all classes. The only leverage I had was to be able TO HEAL myself -> aka throwing around healing word + laying down an astral shield before taking 15k++ crits.
Now, I can't do the only thing I could to survive. I had to change my spec to full dps so I can try to do a little damage before dying. Even so, the only ppl I can really do some damage/beat are undergeared related to me and take a 4k~8k crit with my higher skill available.
Ppl with the same dps as I (14.5k) or even lower (11k++) I can't even scratch. Which is just very frustating.
Before MOD 3 I could go and stand a little damage healing myself and doing the damage I could until someone from my team took out whoever was after me. Before MOD 3 I could play my part as a support class. Now I can't do either. Nor heal, nor damage.
EguaDoidOx - Rock'n'roll DC / EguaDoidOx - Dominion Champion CW
Ancient Warriors Guild
Everyone is so quick to want Unstoppable nerf'd and Threating rush nerf'd...Ok so lets nerf Threating rush, now GWFs will have no way at all to fight a CW or a HR , they can kite us to no end now when played by good players. Take away TR and we have Zero gap closer, sprint you say? sprint is no help when your out of stamina = dead GWFs and a thousand post's on nerfing those 2 classes so now we are all nerf'd great. We can all stand around hitting each other with sticks.
Many people did quite well at PVP on their GWFs before the class even had access to IV skills. Kiting takes some skill, so does chasing with sprint and timing attacks. Spamming a button that teleports you to your target does not require any skill.
Many people did quite well at PVP on their GWFs before the class even had access to IV skills. Kiting takes some skill, so does chasing with sprint and timing attacks. Spamming a button that teleports you to your target does not require any skill.
Hence, the reason they changed TR Deft Strike from an at-will into an encounter with 12 seconds of recharge.
Compared to Threatening Rush, Deft Strike doesn't have any extra effects aside from applying a slow to your target, which means squat when the effect just dissipates after the target dodges maybe two times. It probably would have meant something when it was an at-will that could be repeated, but anyhow, they simply eradicated as an at-will and brought it back as an encounter with a long recharge.
...at this point, a TR must ask, what is the frickin' justification behind Threatening Rush when a TR gets his Deft Strike nerfed?
Threatening Rush should be made an encounter as well.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
While I am a fairly new addition to this game, I can already say that Unstoppable is not the problem. Playing a GWF and seeing the difference between IV and Swordmaster, I can tell you the cause of most woes is Frontline Surge + Take down.
IV stun combo is not balanced at all. GWF needs their damage, and they need some anti CC.
Imo if Frontline Surge was redesigned, or Takedown was a Swordmaster only ability, you would see alot of GWF having to rethink their spec, and not being able to just 123 combo someone.
I think Sentinel feat path might be a tad too tanky? But it's damage is lower, removing or changing one CC would make Sentinel's a bit more manageable.
While I am a fairly new addition to this game, I can already say that Unstoppable is not the problem. Playing a GWF and seeing the difference between IV and Swordmaster, I can tell you the cause of most woes is Frontline Surge + Take down.
IV stun combo is not balanced at all. GWF needs their damage, and they need some anti CC.
Imo if Frontline Surge was redesigned, or Takedown was a Swordmaster only ability, you would see alot of GWF having to rethink their spec, and not being able to just 123 combo someone.
I think Sentinel feat path might be a tad too tanky? But it's damage is lower, removing or changing one CC would make Sentinel's a bit more manageable.
Unstoppable is a problem when coupled with feats that make it even MORE powerful, imagine a godmode tab feature that you can make MORE powerful? REALLY??????
The ability in and of itself is absolutely amazing, it didn't need feats that made it better and gave extra healing, and more damage.
Unstoppable Recovery giving an extra 5% max hp / Destroyer Purpose adding 10% MORE damage, its ridiculous! Just trying to kill a GWF builds more Determination which means MORE Unstoppables its insane....
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Unstoppable alone is the greatest tab feature in the game hands down! It didn't need extra power?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited May 2014
There are reasonable requests for balance, but alot of the forum posts are always "I should never die in PVP, so if I do, nerf that class...."
Just saying.
GWF is indeed in a good spot, and roar is broken to bits, I will not slot it on my GWF, and I die aplenty.
Fix roar so people can counter, its a cheesy encounter and I wish people wouldn't slot it right now.
That being said, honestly the most OP thing right now is a pathfinder HR, Ive poured in 60k of damage into some on my GWF and cannot bring them down.
a GWF has to have some abilities to fight range... here is the issue, there is almost no way to balance everything out, you can keep tinkering, but you will always see people play the op classes in pvp. I know when Im on my DC, I feel like a weighted led balloon on the battlefield, with most of what I could do in the last 6 months nerfed to pieces. I no longer can hold nodes due to GWF and HR combos, I sit slightly off and help my team, if I dont get a good class composition Im screwed however. But if I get lucky and have a few node holders, I can trump around and keep everyone up over and over..
Remove or change Unstoppable Recovery and Destroyer Purpose and Unstoppable will not be OP anymore. Until then having a spammable ability that gives
Unstoppable Recovery (5) Activating Unstoppable now grants you 1/2/3/4/5% of your maximum Hit Points.
Destroyer's Purpose (1) You now gain Determination by dealing damage, and Unstoppable also increases your encounters damage by 10%
Faster attack Speeds
25-50% damage mittigation
Immunity to all CC ( Also Breaks free of them )
10% Extra damage
5% max HP
I mean really? just read those benefits and imagine other classes having such a feature? Its absolutely unfathomable! It literally is a GODMODE!
At the very least each time its used in a xx time frame should have diminished results, I fought a GWF that used Unstoppable 4 times I mean I was being healed and he wasn't and I could not kill him!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The problem is the unstoppable, i feel that i gives too much power to the gwf while in it. Take a look at the tr stealth meter, they can only use at-will while in stealth, if an encounter is use they break stealth. This should be done with unstoppable, using an encounter will break it rather than using all encounter while in unstoppable.
My 2 cent
A TR can bring a Destroyer down to half HP from Stealth. Everyone has strong points and weak points. The GWF's strong points maybe easier to utilize but that doesnt mean they are unkillable gods who finish everyone off in 1 rotation. The people who I end in 1 rotation on a 16.3 Destro are usually grossly undergeared.
edit - there , now you can enjoy it too, right Rip ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
A TR can bring a Destroyer down to half HP from Stealth. Everyone has strong points and weak points. The GWF's strong points maybe easier to utilize but that doesnt mean they are unkillable gods who finish everyone off in 1 rotation. The people who I end in 1 rotation on a 16.3 Destro are usually grossly undergeared.
Whats the GF / CW / DC strong pints in comparison to the GWF? Edited out the offensive image
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Remove or change Unstoppable Recovery and Destroyer Purpose and Unstoppable will not be OP anymore. Until then having a spammable ability that gives
Unstoppable Recovery (5) Activating Unstoppable now grants you 1/2/3/4/5% of your maximum Hit Points.
Destroyer's Purpose (1) You now gain Determination by dealing damage, and Unstoppable also increases your encounters damage by 10%
Faster attack Speeds
25-50% damage mittigation
Immunity to all CC ( Also Breaks free of them )
10% Extra damage
5% max HP
I mean really? just read those benefits and imagine other classes having such a feature? Its absolutely unfathomable! It literally is a GODMODE!
At the very least each time its used in a xx time frame should have diminished results, I fought a GWF that used Unstoppable 4 times I mean I was being healed and he wasn't and I could not kill him!
Think, this is all i gotta say. To utilize all that to its full potential and to be able to output great damage a Destroyer sacrifices his defensive capability. With 26K HP and 1900 Defence ( that is my Destro at 16.3K GS ) he puts it all in offence and is a one-trick pony, if you survive his trick you can take him down. It's not rocket science people.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Whats the GF / CW / DC strong pints in comparison to the GWF? Edited out the offensive image
Big cats offend you ? I find them cute
Also, a GF can output insane damage + cc in 1 rotation and that is what my IV Conq is doing in PVP. Of course as Ive said before no money nor class can save you from a bad PuG. CW/DC I havent played so I cant comment on them.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
There are reasonable requests for balance, but alot of the forum posts are always "I should never die in PVP, so if I do, nerf that class...."
Just saying.
GWF is indeed in a good spot, and roar is broken to bits, I will not slot it on my GWF, and I die aplenty.
Fix roar so people can counter, its a cheesy encounter and I wish people wouldn't slot it right now.
That being said, honestly the most OP thing right now is a pathfinder HR, Ive poured in 60k of damage into some on my GWF and cannot bring them down.
a GWF has to have some abilities to fight range... here is the issue, there is almost no way to balance everything out, you can keep tinkering, but you will always see people play the op classes in pvp. I know when Im on my DC, I feel like a weighted led balloon on the battlefield, with most of what I could do in the last 6 months nerfed to pieces. I no longer can hold nodes due to GWF and HR combos, I sit slightly off and help my team, if I dont get a good class composition Im screwed however. But if I get lucky and have a few node holders, I can trump around and keep everyone up over and over..
No you don't! Thats like saying a CW needs some abilities to fight melee?
You have abilities at your disposal to utilize that make you immune to cc, and you have sprint, almost ranged prones too! GWF need toning down not more!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
When a moderator sees the words on that image I'd expect you banned, or the image deleted! I'd do it before they see it?
Wont be a loss as these types of forum discussions tend to lead nowhere and the NV forum is polluted with "nerf this threads" anyway. If I like my class I try to make it work. GF is my alt ( more main that alt right now ). It has so many issues but I like the gameplay and the idea of the class so I play it. You wont find even one "nerf this" thread that I have started.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Wont be a loss as these types of forum discussions tend to lead nowhere and the NV forum is polluted with "nerf this threads" anyway. If I like my class I try to make it work. GF is my alt ( more main that alt right now ). It has so many issues but I like the gameplay and the idea of the class so I play it. You wont find even one "nerf this" thread that I have started.
You cannot deny Unstoppable is ridiculously powerful, and knowing you have a get out of jail free card all the time allows you to run around with reckless abandon!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You cannot deny Unstoppable is ridiculously powerful, and knowing you have a get out of jail free card all the time allows you to run around with reckless abandon!
Yes that is true. Like I've said GWFs are chaos incarnate, they go crazy with Rage and big weapons ( very few skilled players actually use their mobility ). Should've been called barbarians instead. But only those who specced entirely for damage and put alot into their toons (GS) can really destroy people in 1 rotation. The average GS/clueless GWF will die just as well as an average GS/clueless CW. I made my GWF into a glass cannon, that doesnt hurt me in PVE cause I have lifesteal but in PVP I meet all kinds of people with every class who either kill me or avoid me till someone else kills me.
As a GF I love to troll GWFs who think unstop is the answer to every question ( you seem to think so too btw ). They pop it and expect me to stand there and take it. Instead I move, GFs have faster base run speed, I block and refill my block. If Im feelin' nasty and have AP(btw GF builds AP crazy fast) I knock them on their bottoms while they are unstoppable, that really leaves them wondering to the point they send me these " come at me without your shield nub "..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
If Im feelin' nasty and have AP(btw GF builds AP crazy fast) I knock them on their bottoms while they are unstoppable, that really leaves them wondering to the point they send me these " come at me without your shield nub "..
This is the greatest sentence I've read in the forums this past week. Thank you.
Think, this is all i gotta say. To utilize all that to its full potential and to be able to output great damage a Destroyer sacrifices his defensive capability. With 26K HP and 1900 Defence ( that is my Destro at 16.3K GS ) he puts it all in offence and is a one-trick pony, if you survive his trick you can take him down. It's not rocket science people.
There's no reason you should have 26k hp. Hell, on GWFs, Constitution gives you resistance ignored (free armor penetration).
That has nothing to do with Destroyer and everything to do with you building badly. There was never anything in Sentinal that gave you more hp.
Comments
You dont mind because you can stealth ITC and run away. No one else can albeit a goof HR.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You realise that i we trs getting cced by 100 units range after dodge by the roar gfws got . I got higher survabillity since i got a regen based build but still i am getting cced even on ITC .I don't mind the cc effect on me but i indeed mind the range. Unstoppable is fine . If you know how to burn it out you will eventually kill the gfw.
When Threatening Rush lands, the target is still moving, Takedown immediately after Threatening Rush misses on mobile targets. Only Roar's insane arc catches all after Threatening Rush. There is also a thread about Roar, combine the two and you have both eyes crying.
That's not me trying to score cheap points. I've been aversive to doing the above to you with my GWF. Not only does the Malabog's Castle Set 'Nearly' keep up with the T2 dungeon set Avatar of War, but any change to Unstoppable as a downward revision will render that set incompatible with the content.
If you really want the nerf to GWF's have loot issued by a vendor and turn the chests into token machines. The other GWF's will still be told, and then rightly so, that Avatar of War is the only set needed.
All valid points, but I will point out one issue as it applies only to PVP, one issue we have is there is no requirement to queue as a GF DPS/control and heal, pretty much anything can queue so its possible that you could have a team of 2+ GWF against a party of ranged classes. Either the ranged side will lose because they can't fight on the node, or their team mates will pitch a fit that they are not fighting on a node and die horrible deaths trying to appease people by fighting on a node. Another issue that can happen is the ranged people will just pick off those standing on a node so with not retaliation you die capping or trying to cap while you are pelted at will from range trying to hold your node which in the above class make up of teams could lead to almost nothing more than cap trading, the melee side caps the ranged side tries to kill and then cap while they respawn etc.
Personally I agree with everything you said but I think in addition they should make the PVP queue proper groups like it was a dungeon so you are not fighting 3 - 5 GWF or whatever gross make up happens. Sure the queue system will suck as how many people play tanks and clerics for pvp? But maybe just maybe that would start really encouraging people to play other classes or promote other classes. I know in another MMO I played a tank and healer and I always got queues, the dps role was a dime a dozen and you could sit in queue for 30 minutes or longer on days when a lot of people played. I do not know if eventually that balanced out or another system came into place but when you see people saying that a tank or healer can queue almost instantly for content cause not many play those roles then it might spur you to consider switching to another class and create some diversity.
Overall the vast majority of MMO players are egoists who want to dish out the highest possible damage numbers regardless of how helpful they actually are to a team (sometimes they are sometimes all they do is create more trouble by trying to be the first to hit everything even if they are the squishiest class out there).
As to the GWF, one last thing, while mostly I agree they aren't as bad as people say (those sentinels where indeed rather hard to handle but I still managed before tenacity, after is another story) but the fact that they do have pretty good armor and defense kinda defeats their purpose, sure in rage mode they should have a high defense but overall they probably should be pretty low in fact they should probably be in the same class as HR and TR as far as armor goes. The Tank should be the best hands down, the DC should come in under them and then HR GWF and TR followed by CW being the worse (aside from spell usage). Personally my GWF build just spams unstoppable as in PVE as long as there are a bunch of mobs around I can hit it a lot and almost not come out of it. In PVP my AoW set doesnt' seem to do as much for me as others as I feel pretty soft, at 28k health and rank 6 enchants with full AoW set and no tenacity outside of basic 10%, I jsut don't seem to stand up like others. My GWF is pretty new still and I have yet to afford to build up rank 7 enchants in every slot but still he is pretty good cept for PVP. I know my PVP skill with a GWF is almost non existant but i'm an experienced player and I have to say I go down like a drunk cheap prom date. Rarely do I get threatening rush do anything but stutter as I spam it to try to close but its always stopping before hitting it seems or rubber banding me back to where I started.
The other option is to basically say there are only two classes for pvp and they are TR and GWF .... the rest only work for PVE so if you are a pvp junky those are your options lol.
My 2 cent
Then you want them to nerf our next ability which gives us a chance VS other melee and our only want to get out of being controll'd. ..No idea if some of you were around the first few months game was live, but GWF's were basically run into fight die re spawn at camp fire. We do not need to go back to that.
Now instead of complaing to devs about the class and just scream nerf, come up with an IDEA that will replace these said skills that do not totaly make it a bag of c,rap running around with a sword...THANKS! and sorry some folks do not know how to use all there skills the right way to kill another class and would rather complain about it.I know plenty of very good TR's CW's and HR's that can beat down a GWF. maybe ask the one's that know how to do it and i am sure they will help you out.
Only class that i feel for is the GF which i would love to be playing but it don't seem to be on the radar yet.
Oh yeah I did, and even found some with that ridiculous spec with full blues def/regen which is quite impossible to beat. Haven't seen those anymore though. About 1~2 months I don't find those clerics.
My point is, for instance, I'm geared with full T2 or full profound righteous + profound necklace/rings/belt + elven battle. Even so I get controlled/prone/slowed/rooted/frozen/mutted and completely owned by all classes. The only leverage I had was to be able TO HEAL myself -> aka throwing around healing word + laying down an astral shield before taking 15k++ crits.
Now, I can't do the only thing I could to survive. I had to change my spec to full dps so I can try to do a little damage before dying. Even so, the only ppl I can really do some damage/beat are undergeared related to me and take a 4k~8k crit with my higher skill available.
Ppl with the same dps as I (14.5k) or even lower (11k++) I can't even scratch. Which is just very frustating.
Before MOD 3 I could go and stand a little damage healing myself and doing the damage I could until someone from my team took out whoever was after me. Before MOD 3 I could play my part as a support class. Now I can't do either. Nor heal, nor damage.
Ancient Warriors Guild
.......imagine.....
Hence, the reason they changed TR Deft Strike from an at-will into an encounter with 12 seconds of recharge.
Compared to Threatening Rush, Deft Strike doesn't have any extra effects aside from applying a slow to your target, which means squat when the effect just dissipates after the target dodges maybe two times. It probably would have meant something when it was an at-will that could be repeated, but anyhow, they simply eradicated as an at-will and brought it back as an encounter with a long recharge.
...at this point, a TR must ask, what is the frickin' justification behind Threatening Rush when a TR gets his Deft Strike nerfed?
Threatening Rush should be made an encounter as well.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
IV stun combo is not balanced at all. GWF needs their damage, and they need some anti CC.
Imo if Frontline Surge was redesigned, or Takedown was a Swordmaster only ability, you would see alot of GWF having to rethink their spec, and not being able to just 123 combo someone.
I think Sentinel feat path might be a tad too tanky? But it's damage is lower, removing or changing one CC would make Sentinel's a bit more manageable.
Again a GWF defending his OP class " Don't nerf me bro"
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Unstoppable is a problem when coupled with feats that make it even MORE powerful, imagine a godmode tab feature that you can make MORE powerful? REALLY??????
The ability in and of itself is absolutely amazing, it didn't need feats that made it better and gave extra healing, and more damage.
Unstoppable Recovery giving an extra 5% max hp / Destroyer Purpose adding 10% MORE damage, its ridiculous! Just trying to kill a GWF builds more Determination which means MORE Unstoppables its insane....
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Just saying.
GWF is indeed in a good spot, and roar is broken to bits, I will not slot it on my GWF, and I die aplenty.
Fix roar so people can counter, its a cheesy encounter and I wish people wouldn't slot it right now.
That being said, honestly the most OP thing right now is a pathfinder HR, Ive poured in 60k of damage into some on my GWF and cannot bring them down.
a GWF has to have some abilities to fight range... here is the issue, there is almost no way to balance everything out, you can keep tinkering, but you will always see people play the op classes in pvp. I know when Im on my DC, I feel like a weighted led balloon on the battlefield, with most of what I could do in the last 6 months nerfed to pieces. I no longer can hold nodes due to GWF and HR combos, I sit slightly off and help my team, if I dont get a good class composition Im screwed however. But if I get lucky and have a few node holders, I can trump around and keep everyone up over and over..
Unstoppable Recovery (5) Activating Unstoppable now grants you 1/2/3/4/5% of your maximum Hit Points.
Destroyer's Purpose (1) You now gain Determination by dealing damage, and Unstoppable also increases your encounters damage by 10%
Faster attack Speeds
25-50% damage mittigation
Immunity to all CC ( Also Breaks free of them )
10% Extra damage
5% max HP
I mean really? just read those benefits and imagine other classes having such a feature? Its absolutely unfathomable! It literally is a GODMODE!
At the very least each time its used in a xx time frame should have diminished results, I fought a GWF that used Unstoppable 4 times I mean I was being healed and he wasn't and I could not kill him!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
A TR can bring a Destroyer down to half HP from Stealth. Everyone has strong points and weak points. The GWF's strong points maybe easier to utilize but that doesnt mean they are unkillable gods who finish everyone off in 1 rotation. The people who I end in 1 rotation on a 16.3 Destro are usually grossly undergeared.
edit - there , now you can enjoy it too, right Rip ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Whats the GF / CW / DC strong pints in comparison to the GWF? Edited out the offensive image
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Think, this is all i gotta say. To utilize all that to its full potential and to be able to output great damage a Destroyer sacrifices his defensive capability. With 26K HP and 1900 Defence ( that is my Destro at 16.3K GS ) he puts it all in offence and is a one-trick pony, if you survive his trick you can take him down. It's not rocket science people.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Big cats offend you ? I find them cute
Also, a GF can output insane damage + cc in 1 rotation and that is what my IV Conq is doing in PVP. Of course as Ive said before no money nor class can save you from a bad PuG. CW/DC I havent played so I cant comment on them.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
No you don't! Thats like saying a CW needs some abilities to fight melee?
You have abilities at your disposal to utilize that make you immune to cc, and you have sprint, almost ranged prones too! GWF need toning down not more!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
When a moderator sees the words on that image I'd expect you banned, or the image deleted! I'd do it before they see it?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Wont be a loss as these types of forum discussions tend to lead nowhere and the NV forum is polluted with "nerf this threads" anyway. If I like my class I try to make it work. GF is my alt ( more main that alt right now ). It has so many issues but I like the gameplay and the idea of the class so I play it. You wont find even one "nerf this" thread that I have started.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You cannot deny Unstoppable is ridiculously powerful, and knowing you have a get out of jail free card all the time allows you to run around with reckless abandon!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yes that is true. Like I've said GWFs are chaos incarnate, they go crazy with Rage and big weapons ( very few skilled players actually use their mobility ). Should've been called barbarians instead. But only those who specced entirely for damage and put alot into their toons (GS) can really destroy people in 1 rotation. The average GS/clueless GWF will die just as well as an average GS/clueless CW. I made my GWF into a glass cannon, that doesnt hurt me in PVE cause I have lifesteal but in PVP I meet all kinds of people with every class who either kill me or avoid me till someone else kills me.
As a GF I love to troll GWFs who think unstop is the answer to every question ( you seem to think so too btw ). They pop it and expect me to stand there and take it. Instead I move, GFs have faster base run speed, I block and refill my block. If Im feelin' nasty and have AP(btw GF builds AP crazy fast) I knock them on their bottoms while they are unstoppable, that really leaves them wondering to the point they send me these " come at me without your shield nub "..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This is the greatest sentence I've read in the forums this past week. Thank you.
There's no reason you should have 26k hp. Hell, on GWFs, Constitution gives you resistance ignored (free armor penetration).
That has nothing to do with Destroyer and everything to do with you building badly. There was never anything in Sentinal that gave you more hp.