You're completely missing the point, not counting the errors you think there are in other classes.
The point is, that a barbarian should not have access to skills that don't belong to it's class. While any fighter should easily be able to knockdown a mage, it still requires precision to knock somebody down. If anything, barbarians are not surgeons. They hit everything that moves regardless of size or power and sacrifice their defense to do so. That's a true barbarian. Things like control and defense belong to a disciplined fighter, not a barbarian. Speaking of surgeons, a fighter class that has self heal? What rule book does that come from? Healing is a wizard/cleric spell. And before you say wizards don't heal, ask any necromancer. Drain life is a wizard spell.
And no, I"m not asking for any nerf. I hate nerfs. All my characters have had their share and I can assure you it sux chocolate balls. Salty even. My comment is directed at the construction of the class in itself. The GWF as it is now should never have existed. And if it has to exist, it's supposed to include the default feature that hybrid classes are never stronger in their skills than the classes they borrow said skills from.
The HR is a good example of how it should have been done. Archer specced ones will deal good damage but don't out-dps a good TR on a single mob, nor out-dps a dmg specced CW in AoE. Their buffs are nothing close to the DC/GFs ones and their melee is horrible. Similar things happen with the other feat trees they have. TR paths do the same. And even the perma stealths are forced to sacrifice damage for survivability.
The GFW has no such weakness. Nor has the CW for that matter. It should lose control power if it's specced for damage and vise versa.
knocking someone down is not a precision act, it is in fact a shown of brute force so right there your argument falls apart, if it was a trip you'd have a leg to stand on but it's not it's smacking someone on the head so they'd go down.
also dex, you know the thing that actually measure precision is one of gwf fighters secondary abilities... meaning your supposed to give it some focus.
and in older editions barbarian which you say gwf are, get feats like uncanny dodge ad trap sense, both which it shares with rouges. for free, by leveling. so they are a dex class which means they are a precision class.
any idiot can shrug off pain which cover a good bit of what put you on the ground so you can die from whatever actually kills you in the long term. in game game mechanics that would me ether be temp hp or a small heal.
I'd prefer temp but let get real the only real heal restoring strike is not strong enough to get your panties in a bunch over.
and don't forgive cw/hr/tr are all squishy and supposed to go down fast if someone gets close to them. and tanking is one of gwf roles. and what what tank can't shrug control effect so they can keep tanking.
Joke or not joke, the leaderboard show exactely what we already knew since months.
They can't hide the truth now.
GWF-TR-HR are totally OP for PVP domination.
survivability, speed-mobility, stealth, immunity,single target dammage and resist control give them an absolute advantadge for this kind of PVP and it's worst since the mount nerf.
Rest is atm useless for domination.
So
1/Stop bringing to us moore content about domination should be a first step.
2/Stop with little balance changing nothing and bring on the table a real change to balance magical class and physical class.
3/Remoove all form of immunity for control and make a difference between magical dammage source and physical dammage source, split the defense in the same way, magical defense, physical defense.
4/Put on the table some real tools to counter stealth, with new class, new toys or powers.
5/Nerf all active or passive powers allowing an increase of speed in PVP domination.
6/Reduce the effect of deflection there are already the AC,the defense and HP for tanky build.
Joke or not joke, the leaderboard show exactely what we already knew since months.
They can't hide the truth now.
GWF-TR-HR are totally OP for PVP domination.
survivability, speed-mobility, stealth, immunity,single target dammage and resist control give them an absolute advantadge for this kind of PVP and it's worst since the mount nerf.
Rest is atm useless for domination.
So
1/Stop bringing to us moore content about domination should be a first step.
2/Stop with little balance changing nothing and bring on the table a real change to balance magical class and physical class.
3/Remoove all form of immunity for control and make a difference between magical dammage source and physical dammage source, split the defense in the same way, magical defense, physical defense.
4/Put on the table some real tools to counter stealth, with new class, new toys or powers.
5/Nerf all active or passive powers allowing an increase of speed in PVP domination.
6/Reduce the effect of deflection there are already the AC,the defense and HP for tanky build.
the people who just recently started to pvp have encountered that attacking a GWF with at-wills is not the best idea.
---
D&D - wise, Ian is right. Unstoppable as it was originally intended is something completely different than what we have ingame. But judging from a GF point of view, a GWF isn't unkillable anymore, due to healing depression and the rework of the temporary hp that is granted by activating said skill.
---
When you get pm "get a life, kid" after killing the same GWF in pvp 31 times in a row as a GF, you will realize they are not as OP, as people are still claiming. ***Hint: GWF are like babies, once their stamina is drained and their unstoppable has worn off. Surviving up to that point is not an easy task, though.
the people who just recently started to pvp have encountered that attacking a GWF with at-wills is not the best idea.
---
D&D - wise, Ian is right. Unstoppable as it was originally intended is something completely different than what we have ingame. But judging from a GF point of view, a GWF isn't unkillable anymore, due to healing depression and the rework of the temporary hp that is granted by activating said skill.
---
When you get pm "get a life, kid" after killing the same GWF in pvp 31 times in a row as a GF, you will realize they are not as OP, as people are still claiming. ***Hint: GWF are like babies, once their stamina is drained and their unstoppable has worn off. Surviving up to that point is not an easy task, though.
my problems with them are that:
a few attacks and they enter unstoppable
1-2 ranged prones that are not easy to dodge
prones interrupting ITC
prones negating deflect
attacking outside unstoppable is likely to take 25% of their hp or so
a single gwf rotation takes at least 50-70% of anyones hp and some just outright kill you (probably gear difference)
when you do near kill them with help, they just sprint off and there is nothing that can stop them
they are a class that just don't die 1 vs 1. most, if not all, of the times a gwf dies it is because of being focus fired and i have never seen them die without being out-numbered. then again, i haven't seen a good hunter since the mod 3 update so idk
although you might be right with guardians, but that is another class capable of chaining prones.
attacking outside unstoppable is likely to take 25% of their hp or so
a single gwf rotation takes at least 50-70% of anyones hp and some just outright kill you (probably gear difference)
when you do near kill them with help, they just sprint off and there is nothing that can stop them
they are a class that just don't die 1 vs 1. most, if not all, of the times a gwf dies it is because of being focus fired and i have never seen them die without being out-numbered. then again, i haven't seen a good hunter since the mod 3 update so idk
although you might be right with guardians, but that is another class capable of chaining prones.
Nah, i am not using any prones. I find prones lame. All it takes is 2 good hits to the chewer after unstoppable has ended. I cannot give my build-details because it is unique and i invested a lot of time on optimizing it. I don't want other GF to run around with it making the build look bad because they cannot play it properly.
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Chaining prones is the average man's way of getting some kills, this is what i agree with. I can see other people's point of view, too now. I played as a GWF myself for a long time and know their many strenghts and few weaknesses, too well.
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However, i also do agree with the suggestion that people came up with, about making threatening rush either charge based or adding a CD of at least 3 seconds, because it is way too spammable and squishier classes have zero to no chance of ever getting out of a GWF's attack range. (due to the combination of: mobility, cc - prones in particular, that are able to hit from a far distance.)
Haha this is so good. DC got nerfs in every patchs and every modules. Back to square one and you will cry abt DC opness. Still waiting for buffs every module, but we always get a nerf no matter what. GWF get their buffs and i am hoping our buff isn't too late.
DC innocent nerfed history:
Beta till M1:
DC no need drink potions, too OP>>> Righteousness (also affects boons, tranquility, and weapon enchantments like lifedrinker)
TR too OP in early beta>> TR damage nerfed>> DC double Astral Shield nerfed.
TR and CW too squishy in pvp>> DC HoF damage nerfed.
DC healing too much in pve>> FF healing nerf to bottom>> All clerics get mad as it heals nothing>> Devs cant withstand the pressure from the community>> raise the healing amount a little but still lower than original.
M2:
Gctrl's Sent Cleric too OP in pvp>> Healing Depression + Shadowtouched
GWF too OP in M2>> Healing Depression + Anointed Champion paragon nerfed (which is a temp hp focused paragon)
M3:
We introduced PvP campaign!!! Cheer!!!
1. Double kill + Triple kill in every branch of pvp
2. Killing 1000 GG npc
3. Killing 50 enemies in 20 secs after capture a node
4. Exclusive costume for those who cleared all 30 pvp tasks
5. Leaderboard: Never calculate and account the amount of heals and how many times we save a person from death
6. No Float tactic!! 8 sec combat timer before you can ride your mount.
7. No escaping from GWF and TR, you cant dodge and ride your mount.
8. Righteousness rework (FF and AS heal decreased by 40%)
9. Fixed cast-tab sunburst for LS but implemented broken Linked Spirit with AS
I wonder why we always be nerfed although we are innocent and majority of us are poor performing in comparison to other class?? Maybe it is not intended but we are just bad luck but how to explain these things that had happened?? Bad luck in a row for 2-digits number of times??
Don't remove or rework unstoppable, i doubt we clerics will be nerfed again. Keep it the same. We are innocent.
TRUE THAT! CLERICS HAVE BEEN NERFED SINCE THE BEGINNING.
They can't even prove usefull in pvp anymore as THEY CAN'T WITHSTAND DAMAGE ANYMORE CAUSE THEY CAN'T HEAL THEMSELVES. LOL.
EguaDoidOx - Rock'n'roll DC / EguaDoidOx - Dominion Champion CW
Ancient Warriors Guild
TRUE THAT! CLERICS HAVE BEEN NERFED SINCE THE BEGINNING.
They can't even prove usefull in pvp anymore as THEY CAN'T WITHSTAND DAMAGE ANYMORE CAUSE THEY CAN'T HEAL THEMSELVES. LOL.
You ever encounter one of those DC cluster groups? 2 CW, HR, ect piled around a DC in a astral shield. Unless you're a GWF and/or the DC isn't tanky it's almost impossible to put a dent in that.
The main problem of threatering rush is not the fast "gasp-filler" at-will, but the effect of it: when you use Threatering, you mark your opponent, that means (just using I.V. sentinel's tree): N% damage buff from mark itself + 15% damage buff from Trample the fallen at rank 3 + 15% damage buff from Powerfull challenger + 25% weapon damage buff from Battle Trample. This means, GWFs are getting a 30+N% damage buff on "flat damage" + 25% damage buff into weapon's damage + enchantment... within 3/4 secs your char is prone due FS + Takedown combo. Just using I.V. Sentinel's tree ...
It's not smart to use trample the fallen as IV/Sent
-You cannot mark with powerful challenger followed by a trample the fallen buffed IBS.
-Battle Trample adds 25% weapon damage, and only when trample the fallen damage would apply.
The feat amounts to less than 5% damage in a rotation except in the case the GWF hardly does any damage anyways. I would recommend against getting this feat for anybody going Sent/IV. As destroyer it would just be stupid to get this feat.
Now, I suppose some Sent/IV GWFs might be using trample the fallen, but it means they aren't threatening rushing in between encounters. In other words they are sacrificing either 15% movement + 8% deflect or 5AC + 5-15% deflect + 0-10% crit) just so that they can do about the same amount of damage.
I got hit upto 26k by a tr. the point is? gwf are still op
se does bonus damage the less hp you have, and even if your still full hp it can hit up to a 10k, and it ignores all defence, so its basically hitting on an npc.
takedown is an encounter which has a small - medium recharge rate and if it misses the timer goes to 3 seconds, effectivly making it hard as f*** to dodge since they can sprint to you in a second and reuse it, and its a prone which shouldnt even hit high since its already controling you
GWFs need unstoppable because they don't have any dodge or block. Without it, they would be the only class always susceptible to CC and would be basically useless.
Don't get me wrong, they're OP as hell but it's because of their insane damage and abilities like Roar stunning you while dodging.
takedown is an encounter which has a small - medium recharge rate and if it misses the timer goes to 3 seconds, effectivly making it hard as f*** to dodge since they can sprint to you in a second and reuse it, and its a prone which shouldnt even hit high since its already controling you
Normal takedowns don't hit for 12k. They hit for 2-3 k, or maybe 4 if you're lucky.
Normal takedowns don't hit for 12k. They hit for 2-3 k, or maybe 4 if you're lucky.
Mod 3 everything hits harder for GWF destroyer. I was hitting 10k knockdowns with my GWF when I tried it out. Couldn't believe it because the numbers were definitely closer to what you're saying pre-mod3 and I never thought of knockdown as a damage skill before.
Mod 3 everything hits harder for GWF destroyer. I was hitting 10k knockdowns with my GWF when I tried it out. Couldn't believe it because the numbers were definitely closer to what you're saying pre-mod3 and I never thought of knockdown as a damage skill before.
10k??!! Is that normal or crit? ....But still, most GWFs are running a sentinel build. The harder they hit, the squishier they are.
10k??!! Is that normal or crit? ....But still, most GWFs are running a sentinel build. The harder they hit, the squishier they are.
10k crit. I'm sure other GWFs can do much more than that, mine isn't geared.
Sentinal is a thing of the past imo. The broken feats that made sentinal do great damage are fixed, and destroyer tree got mega-buffed.
I'm sure there's still sentinals running around but it's not optimal anymore. You're basically giving up like 8% DR and some deflect in exchange for INSANE DPS and being able to kill many people in one rotation before they get up from your first prone. You're still going to have great DR and Unstoppable in your back pocket.
The main problem of threatering rush is not the fast "gasp-filler" at-will, but the effect of it: when you use Threatering, you mark your opponent, that means (just using I.V. sentinel's tree): N% damage buff from mark itself + 15% damage buff from Trample the fallen at rank 3 + 15% damage buff from Powerfull challenger + 25% weapon damage buff from Battle Trample. This means, GWFs are getting a 30+N% damage buff on "flat damage" + 25% damage buff into weapon's damage + enchantment... within 3/4 secs your char is prone due FS + Takedown combo. Just using I.V. Sentinel's tree ...
Actually, the gap-closer bit IS the problem. All those fancy damage buffs don't mean squat if you can kite him successfully. As mentioned before, for the light-armoured classes, the standard tactic for dealing with heavy-armoured/heavy-hitters is to kite.
■ Ranged use CCs and ..well.. range, to deal as much damage as possible before being caught. When it is caught, it tries to escape with as less damage as possible and then distance itself again.
■ The balance between ranged vs melee is achieved when the numerous amount of damage a ranged deals on the heavy hitting/heavy defense melee, is roughly equal to the amount of few, heavy hits the melee deals on the ranged when the distance momentarily closes.
■ After that the ranged must have some way to escape to repeat this process... so any one side which makes a mistake will end up getting the worst of it.
...
But of course, in NW, there is no such thing as range-melee balance against a GWF. Once Unstoppable activates for the first time, any initiative gained by range is gone in what.. 2 seconds? From that point. No escape. No 'range' for you -- like ever again. Prone. Prone. Root. Threatening Rush. Sprint around. Woops Unstoppable ends? Don't worry. It's gonna refill in 5... 4.. 3..
The only "range" against a GWF is melee range. The only opponent that really has any slim chance at all to escape, TRs. CWs, DCs and HRs? My condolescenes.
...
Imagine if this was remedied. Unstoppable activates. Very dangerous, yes, but that doesn't mean the GWF instantly teleports to you as he does now. He still needs to cover the distance. You may choose to either attack, but it would be better to run until Unstoppable ends. When that ends, CC, attack. Unstoppable will be back up very shortly so its not much damage, and you have a long way to go in trying to bring down a 37k GWF this way -- but still, you do have a chance, and a good one, too.
Trust me. It's the mobility of the GWF that is the problem.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
OP has a point here. If 4e Player's Handbook says something, it has to be followed. Hopefully all the 4e Player's Handbook, not just the Unstoppable part.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Unstoppable itself, is currently under balance IMO. The problem is they decided to make IBS the everyman's version of Shocking Execution, lol.
If anything, if we're really going to talk about balance (at least in terms of PvP) the fixes needed would be:
(1) Threatning Rush: frickin' bullshi* at-will gap closer, needs changes in par with TR Gloaming Cut
(2) FSL: ranged CCs? And a prone at that? Really? For the game's toughest, strongest melee class?
(3) sprint: need higher stamina burn rate. Runs much too long, much too fast
(4) IBS: Encounter version of Shocking Execution. ROFL
(5) Attack Speed: carries a weapon 6 feet tall and still outswings most.
The standard tactics for frail ranged classes or light-defense classes to fight against heavy damage, heavy defense melee classes are to kite it. Except you can't kite any of the fighter classes because in reality, in the game they have the best gap-closers as well as fastest movement that can be maintained forever. There is no 'kiting' a GWF because the GWF is effectively a RANGED class at this rate -- they shoot themselves as projectiles for crying out loud.
1) GFs had that long time ago, did you complain then ?
2) FLS has a long cooldown and its damage is now reduced and it can be dodged by those who know how to dodge
3) We dont have a dodge also a full stamina bar cannot close in to a HR or a CW attacking me from their max range - also Stamina takes a long time to refill
4) IBS is tooltipped at around 6500 on my 16.3 GWF with 8000 power - the big numbers come from Greater/Perfect Vorpal, dont act as if the encounter itself hits for 15K base, also dodge it ( also a GF can hit for much more with a simple Lunging Strike+KC+crit, should they nerf GFs too ? )
5) "Attack Speed: carries a weapon 6 feet tall and still outswings most " during Unstoppable.
Conclusion - are you being stupid or simply trolling ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
1) GFs had that long time ago, did you complain then ?
2) FLS has a long cooldown and its damage is now reduced and it can be dodged by those who know how to dodge
3) We dont have a dodge also a full stamina bar cannot close in to a HR or a CW attacking me from their max range - also Stamina takes a long time to refill
4) IBS is tooltipped at around 6500 on my 16.3 GWF with 8000 power - the big numbers come from Greater/Perfect Vorpal, dont act as if the encounter itself hits for 15K base, also dodge it ( also a GF can hit for much more with a simple Lunging Strike+KC+crit, should they nerf GFs too ? )
5) "Attack Speed: carries a weapon 6 feet tall and still outswings most " during Unstoppable.
1. Complained back then. Everyone did. Unfortunately after mod2 everyone was infuriated with Unstoppable, so naturally Threatening Rush fell out of sight.
2. The only relevant point is a melee class is dealing ranged CC. I don't see an excuse here.
3. GWFs need a dodge with that kind of stat? Besides, as if any GWF has any problems in closing distance to CW/HRs. Why not ask them? They tell a different story.
4. Try dodging IBS while chain-proned, please. Oh wait, you said people can simply dodge the prone itself. How foolish of me. :rolleyes:
Conclusion - are you being stupid or simply trolling ?
Look in the mirror, repeat the phrase, and then go look at CWs or DCs or GFs in the eye and tell them I'm trolling, and GWFs are perfectly fine.
Me, I'm a TR. I've been fighting the GWFreaks since they were the 'demi-gods' in mod2, so I'm used to putting up with OP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Us TRs got OP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of our own to at least force a stalemate or escape. But what do the other classes have on GWFreaks?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Well, i fought a lot of CWs, DCs, etc which doesn't know "how to kite", then... because i can kill them without "Threatering Rush" but not without any mark/buff damage/armor debuff... No, the movility is not a problem, but i will not deny than "threatering Rush" for GWF is a bit "broken") : the buff damage itself is due the duration of "prone"... which is not "mitigated" via Tenacity, Steel Grace, etc.
There are plenty of CWs that know how to kite. They can't, against the same BiS level GWFs. Hence, the premade, the team, the help required, the amount of focus fire and coordination it takes to bring ONE GWF down.
There is no "kiting" a GWF, whether the "kitee" knows how to, or not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. So let's not play dumb.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
GWFs need unstoppable because they don't have any dodge or block. Without it, they would be the only class always susceptible to CC and would be basically useless.
Don't get me wrong, they're OP as hell but it's because of their insane damage and abilities like Roar stunning you while dodging.
Fine, you need a immunity to CC with run speed. You do NOT need regeneration, HP gain, and added damage mitigation, and faster attack speeds! The ability is so broken its almost profoundly dumb!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
There are plenty of CWs that know how to kite. They can't, against the same BiS level GWFs. Hence, the premade, the team, the help required, the amount of focus fire and coordination it takes to bring ONE GWF down.
There is no "kiting" a GWF, whether the "kitee" knows how to, or not. You know it, I know it, everyone else knows it.
When CW gain their control back MAYBE they can kite a GWF until then nope... No way you are going to kite something with a 1-2 sec cc when they can ranged prone you knock you down and do ridonkulousless amounts of damage while in GOD MODE!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
As a tr i don't mind gfws . Some of them are skilled but most of them just swing their swords hitting the air . I don't mind letting them keep their dmg or unstoppable but the only thing on them that needs rework is the range of some skills and how they respond on dodge effects of every class .
Comments
knocking someone down is not a precision act, it is in fact a shown of brute force so right there your argument falls apart, if it was a trip you'd have a leg to stand on but it's not it's smacking someone on the head so they'd go down.
also dex, you know the thing that actually measure precision is one of gwf fighters secondary abilities... meaning your supposed to give it some focus.
and in older editions barbarian which you say gwf are, get feats like uncanny dodge ad trap sense, both which it shares with rouges. for free, by leveling. so they are a dex class which means they are a precision class.
any idiot can shrug off pain which cover a good bit of what put you on the ground so you can die from whatever actually kills you in the long term. in game game mechanics that would me ether be temp hp or a small heal.
I'd prefer temp but let get real the only real heal restoring strike is not strong enough to get your panties in a bunch over.
and don't forgive cw/hr/tr are all squishy and supposed to go down fast if someone gets close to them. and tanking is one of gwf roles. and what what tank can't shrug control effect so they can keep tanking.
and just for fun I'll leave this
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Barbarian
note the part about " an excellent ability to absorb damage" and "unusually high hit points for your role"
They can't hide the truth now.
GWF-TR-HR are totally OP for PVP domination.
survivability, speed-mobility, stealth, immunity,single target dammage and resist control give them an absolute advantadge for this kind of PVP and it's worst since the mount nerf.
Rest is atm useless for domination.
So
1/Stop bringing to us moore content about domination should be a first step.
2/Stop with little balance changing nothing and bring on the table a real change to balance magical class and physical class.
3/Remoove all form of immunity for control and make a difference between magical dammage source and physical dammage source, split the defense in the same way, magical defense, physical defense.
4/Put on the table some real tools to counter stealth, with new class, new toys or powers.
5/Nerf all active or passive powers allowing an increase of speed in PVP domination.
6/Reduce the effect of deflection there are already the AC,the defense and HP for tanky build.
in short, you are a CW, aint ya.
the people who just recently started to pvp have encountered that attacking a GWF with at-wills is not the best idea.
---
D&D - wise, Ian is right. Unstoppable as it was originally intended is something completely different than what we have ingame. But judging from a GF point of view, a GWF isn't unkillable anymore, due to healing depression and the rework of the temporary hp that is granted by activating said skill.
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When you get pm "get a life, kid" after killing the same GWF in pvp 31 times in a row as a GF, you will realize they are not as OP, as people are still claiming. ***Hint: GWF are like babies, once their stamina is drained and their unstoppable has worn off. Surviving up to that point is not an easy task, though.
my problems with them are that:
they are a class that just don't die 1 vs 1. most, if not all, of the times a gwf dies it is because of being focus fired and i have never seen them die without being out-numbered. then again, i haven't seen a good hunter since the mod 3 update so idk
although you might be right with guardians, but that is another class capable of chaining prones.
Nah, i am not using any prones. I find prones lame. All it takes is 2 good hits to the chewer after unstoppable has ended. I cannot give my build-details because it is unique and i invested a lot of time on optimizing it. I don't want other GF to run around with it making the build look bad because they cannot play it properly.
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Chaining prones is the average man's way of getting some kills, this is what i agree with. I can see other people's point of view, too now. I played as a GWF myself for a long time and know their many strenghts and few weaknesses, too well.
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However, i also do agree with the suggestion that people came up with, about making threatening rush either charge based or adding a CD of at least 3 seconds, because it is way too spammable and squishier classes have zero to no chance of ever getting out of a GWF's attack range. (due to the combination of: mobility, cc - prones in particular, that are able to hit from a far distance.)
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
TRUE THAT! CLERICS HAVE BEEN NERFED SINCE THE BEGINNING.
They can't even prove usefull in pvp anymore as THEY CAN'T WITHSTAND DAMAGE ANYMORE CAUSE THEY CAN'T HEAL THEMSELVES. LOL.
Ancient Warriors Guild
I got hit upto 26k by a tr. the point is? gwf are still op
You ever encounter one of those DC cluster groups? 2 CW, HR, ect piled around a DC in a astral shield. Unless you're a GWF and/or the DC isn't tanky it's almost impossible to put a dent in that.
It's not smart to use trample the fallen as IV/Sent
-You cannot mark with powerful challenger followed by a trample the fallen buffed IBS.
-Battle Trample adds 25% weapon damage, and only when trample the fallen damage would apply.
The feat amounts to less than 5% damage in a rotation except in the case the GWF hardly does any damage anyways. I would recommend against getting this feat for anybody going Sent/IV. As destroyer it would just be stupid to get this feat.
Now, I suppose some Sent/IV GWFs might be using trample the fallen, but it means they aren't threatening rushing in between encounters. In other words they are sacrificing either 15% movement + 8% deflect or 5AC + 5-15% deflect + 0-10% crit) just so that they can do about the same amount of damage.
se does bonus damage the less hp you have, and even if your still full hp it can hit up to a 10k, and it ignores all defence, so its basically hitting on an npc.
takedown is an encounter which has a small - medium recharge rate and if it misses the timer goes to 3 seconds, effectivly making it hard as f*** to dodge since they can sprint to you in a second and reuse it, and its a prone which shouldnt even hit high since its already controling you
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Don't get me wrong, they're OP as hell but it's because of their insane damage and abilities like Roar stunning you while dodging.
Normal takedowns don't hit for 12k. They hit for 2-3 k, or maybe 4 if you're lucky.
Mod 3 everything hits harder for GWF destroyer. I was hitting 10k knockdowns with my GWF when I tried it out. Couldn't believe it because the numbers were definitely closer to what you're saying pre-mod3 and I never thought of knockdown as a damage skill before.
10k??!! Is that normal or crit? ....But still, most GWFs are running a sentinel build. The harder they hit, the squishier they are.
10k crit. I'm sure other GWFs can do much more than that, mine isn't geared.
Sentinal is a thing of the past imo. The broken feats that made sentinal do great damage are fixed, and destroyer tree got mega-buffed.
I'm sure there's still sentinals running around but it's not optimal anymore. You're basically giving up like 8% DR and some deflect in exchange for INSANE DPS and being able to kill many people in one rotation before they get up from your first prone. You're still going to have great DR and Unstoppable in your back pocket.
Actually, the gap-closer bit IS the problem. All those fancy damage buffs don't mean squat if you can kite him successfully. As mentioned before, for the light-armoured classes, the standard tactic for dealing with heavy-armoured/heavy-hitters is to kite.
■ Ranged use CCs and ..well.. range, to deal as much damage as possible before being caught. When it is caught, it tries to escape with as less damage as possible and then distance itself again.
■ The balance between ranged vs melee is achieved when the numerous amount of damage a ranged deals on the heavy hitting/heavy defense melee, is roughly equal to the amount of few, heavy hits the melee deals on the ranged when the distance momentarily closes.
■ After that the ranged must have some way to escape to repeat this process... so any one side which makes a mistake will end up getting the worst of it.
...
But of course, in NW, there is no such thing as range-melee balance against a GWF. Once Unstoppable activates for the first time, any initiative gained by range is gone in what.. 2 seconds? From that point. No escape. No 'range' for you -- like ever again. Prone. Prone. Root. Threatening Rush. Sprint around. Woops Unstoppable ends? Don't worry. It's gonna refill in 5... 4.. 3..
The only "range" against a GWF is melee range. The only opponent that really has any slim chance at all to escape, TRs. CWs, DCs and HRs? My condolescenes.
...
Imagine if this was remedied. Unstoppable activates. Very dangerous, yes, but that doesn't mean the GWF instantly teleports to you as he does now. He still needs to cover the distance. You may choose to either attack, but it would be better to run until Unstoppable ends. When that ends, CC, attack. Unstoppable will be back up very shortly so its not much damage, and you have a long way to go in trying to bring down a 37k GWF this way -- but still, you do have a chance, and a good one, too.
Trust me. It's the mobility of the GWF that is the problem.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
1) GFs had that long time ago, did you complain then ?
2) FLS has a long cooldown and its damage is now reduced and it can be dodged by those who know how to dodge
3) We dont have a dodge also a full stamina bar cannot close in to a HR or a CW attacking me from their max range - also Stamina takes a long time to refill
4) IBS is tooltipped at around 6500 on my 16.3 GWF with 8000 power - the big numbers come from Greater/Perfect Vorpal, dont act as if the encounter itself hits for 15K base, also dodge it ( also a GF can hit for much more with a simple Lunging Strike+KC+crit, should they nerf GFs too ? )
5) "Attack Speed: carries a weapon 6 feet tall and still outswings most " during Unstoppable.
Conclusion - are you being stupid or simply trolling ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Fine for whom? GWF! Unstoppable is NOT fine its RIDICULOUSLY OVERPOWERED!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
1. Complained back then. Everyone did. Unfortunately after mod2 everyone was infuriated with Unstoppable, so naturally Threatening Rush fell out of sight.
2. The only relevant point is a melee class is dealing ranged CC. I don't see an excuse here.
3. GWFs need a dodge with that kind of stat? Besides, as if any GWF has any problems in closing distance to CW/HRs. Why not ask them? They tell a different story.
4. Try dodging IBS while chain-proned, please. Oh wait, you said people can simply dodge the prone itself. How foolish of me. :rolleyes:
Look in the mirror, repeat the phrase, and then go look at CWs or DCs or GFs in the eye and tell them I'm trolling, and GWFs are perfectly fine.
Me, I'm a TR. I've been fighting the GWFreaks since they were the 'demi-gods' in mod2, so I'm used to putting up with OP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Us TRs got OP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of our own to at least force a stalemate or escape. But what do the other classes have on GWFreaks?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
There are plenty of CWs that know how to kite. They can't, against the same BiS level GWFs. Hence, the premade, the team, the help required, the amount of focus fire and coordination it takes to bring ONE GWF down.
There is no "kiting" a GWF, whether the "kitee" knows how to, or not. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. So let's not play dumb.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Fine, you need a immunity to CC with run speed. You do NOT need regeneration, HP gain, and added damage mitigation, and faster attack speeds! The ability is so broken its almost profoundly dumb!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
When CW gain their control back MAYBE they can kite a GWF until then nope... No way you are going to kite something with a 1-2 sec cc when they can ranged prone you knock you down and do ridonkulousless amounts of damage while in GOD MODE!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!