You can not reset your initial rolls, but everything else can be respeced. the reason why you can't reroll your initial stats is....well....because....reasons.
Clearly the line is already drawn significantly on the side of 'respec virtually everything', so why not push it over to those last few stat points too?
And why not push the line to "respec sex and race" too ?
In RPG, there's 2 phases, the initial roll and allocation of points to your character (creation) and the experience investment part (play). The respec possibilities in Neverwinter cover all the experience investment part. It's not illogical to stop there.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
And why not push the line to "respec sex and race" too ?
Like the Neither Scroll found by Edwin in Baldurs Gate 2. The Nether Scroll was a powerful ancient artifact he believes will grant him immense power! Well it certainly did!
So, there is lore in regards to this, and even a precedence!
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Of course, there is the fact that the sex of your toon has zero affect on anything at all ever except RP and cosmetic issues, and race is also highly cosmetic, and usually more of a personal choice than anything else.
If you're choosing tiefling purely because you want those stat bonuses (and not because you want a waggy tail and sweet horns), then you're presumably knowledgeable enough to understand the stat system, so it's irrelevant.
If you're choosing tiefling because you want sweet horns and the most adorably waggy tail, then you're less likely to realise that "con is really important to stack for a PvP GWF, but almost completely irrelevant as a PvE GWF" (for instance).
TL: DR version, stat rolls are totally impersonal and affect nothing EXCEPT core game mechanics, whereas the same cannot be said for sex and race. Oh, and of course you'd have to work out how to handle the race-specific quests and so on (something you wouldn't need to do if you were just adding functionality for base stat rerolls).
First, I honestly don't care about this issue one way or the other. I'll just play what ever game is presented to me whether Cryptic wants to keep greasing the squeaky wheel or not. But rest assured that if they would allow re-rolling stats, the next posts you'll start seeing is that player should be able to change their race or class or something, if such posts do not already exist.
As a young boy chasing Dragons with your wooden sword so mighty, You're St. George or you're David and you always killed the beast
Times change very quickly And you had to grow up early. A house in smoking ruins and the bodies at your feet ~Iron Maiden
So basically you think people who planned ahead should keep an advantage over other players while others have no way of changing that unless they forfeit potentially many hours and many millions of AD just for a small part of the game they didn't efficiently do. Personally my gwf has a lot more strength instead of constitution. Maybe I didn't plan to pvp but would rather focus on it now? To say that reroll those stats and preferably race and sex shouldn't be an option is a little obsessive imo. When I made my gwf in beta, I was just going to be casual. Now that I'm into the game, I need to pay for slots (which are taken up by other characters and I'm not going to lose bank space and l20 leadership by deleting him) spend all that time all over again and spend AD on for example artifacts all because of 1 screen. Fortunately idk so much about pvp but I shouldn't be limited and with a leaderboard coming up, I should be able to max out my competitiveness as much as possible.
Make alchemy pots cost less resources, make them BIS and BOP
Why BoP? I don't see why it shouldn't be feasible to have a potion business if the costs made it worth it. Granted that I'd take it if it meant that the profession was actually worth using. People make AD from most other professions after all whether it be from leadership or shirt/pant making.
if they were to be implemented, then i would like it to be through a difficult process rather than be a simple "do over". in d&d, it's a rare process that requires strong magic.
It's already a simple do over for everything but this. you can train your strength to be +6, and with the touch of a button, change it to +6 dex. You can train a path, and with the touch of a button, you have brand new knowledge that you are proficiant in, and completly forgot what you knew before.
strong magic is everywhere in this world. anyone can ride exotic mounts and have exotic pets, that would be so rare in a real d&d campaign that maybe only 1 in 1000 would have one. 30 psudo dragons roaming around in protectors enclave, yea. the magic it would take to enslave or coerce something that powerful would be off the charts, yet for a little zen....you are beastmaster supreme.
The only reason I can think of to not allow rerolls is so you have to re-level a new character.
I dont see any point in investing with such a horrible roll! The system seems to reward heavily those that is 'well-rounded' than a heavily invested in 1 stat.. Since the one with 18 points initial primary stat is only giving 72 stat in total, compared to some others that can give up to 77 points in .. (5 points difference!). And let's not forget the fact that the points below 10 gives no bonus at all and the one with 18 points will guarantee an 8 point somewhere in the tertiary stat (making it 7 points difference overall!). Those that HAVE played for sometime will know that at 30 and 60, you are forced a +1 to all stat, whether you like it.. or not. So, that tertiary stat of 8 will get a + 2 boost @ lvl 60 for NOTHING. Now, back when i was starting, I didnt know that! It definitely screwed the character i'm building, knowing it's gimped and not optimal... Some stupid guides (while quite prestigious) said that initial rolls wont affect much of gameplay.. let me say this, it is VERY important and affect heavily, because it is a flat increase and therefore not affected by diminishing return. I saw how it affect recharge speed increase and crit rate, so I suspect it's how it affect all others too.
Other case is, seeing how 'fluid' the neverwinter update regarding balancing is.. :
For example, as a cleric..
With the latest patch of healing depression, you are completely screwed for investing fully in healing power (Wis).. also with all the other lost (such as the 8 points that become 10 @ lvl 60 which give no benefit at all (why is this anyway?)).
I feel that we really need to be able to buy ability scroll reset..
Some might say "Quit whining / QQing, just make a new character.. it wont be hard to raise a new one to lvl 60"... Well my friend! That's not the case... what about the companions/equipments/coin/etc that is already bound to that character? What about the achievements that we work so hard building on that character? What about the boon quests that took so much time to complete?? Will all those hardworked character be for nothing except a benchwarmer / invocator / profession junkie?
I really need some explanations here, in case I miss anything. Thanks
People don't want other people to reroll their stats cause of...reasons.
0
chaoscourtesanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2014
Totally agree. Well, almost totally. I don't think you should be able to buy the ability re-roll. I think every character should get one upon reaching level 60, a one time deal. To remain valid until used or HAMSTER hours of life at 60 have passed (in-game time.)
I think the majority of players are not theory-crafters or min-maxers or whatever else. I made my first few characters having no idea how the whole picture worked or how points would be given. I can live with the choices I made- I don't think I made any bad ones. I just didn't make the choices I would have made in retrospect.
I might not feel this way if tool tips were 100% reliable, or even made sense in some cases. But they aren't and they sometimes don't.
As far as making a new character.. well that's not a problem, I do and I did, and that's great. But I think my characters have.. character. I like them. It's kind of the point of the game. Why on earth would I want to delete them, when all that needs to happen is a simple concession that would hurt no one?
Or it can stay like it is and we'll all go marching merrily along. But I like friendlier option better. =D
Rhyon Cawdorian GWF | Opa Loka TR | Cormac Argentus III DC | Annika Thornblade GF | Aerys Skydark HR | Bartin Findlor TR | Aellia Baalthrall CW | Lucan Hawkmoon CW | Opa Brahk GWF | Korzbyrk DC | Den Kruk GWF | Jherek Skarsin CW |
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
I don't remember who said it but I faintly recall, on this forums, someone saying that the developers are considering this already.
The way I see it, there's money to be made here.
So, if I were in the shoes of the developers, I will be charging at least 1000ZEN and possibly more for this.
If ability roll reset tokens appear on the ZEN market, it most likely won't be cheap but I'm sure there will be quite a number of happy customers.
Another thing I read about here is that unless you are a min-maxer, the ability rolls wouldn't hurt you much in the long run unless it is really very screwed up like say if you plunge most of the stats into one of the attributes that is not for your class.
Sorry I can't give you a better answer but perhaps someone else will. Good luck=)
I don't really see why they didn't leave the "set up your own ability scores" option, like in D&D. Pre-rolled scores are ok for someone playing MMOs/D&D for the first time, but the "point purchase" has been there for a long time (and it's the main way of designing ability scores in 4e IIRC)...
I went on explaining that the usefulness of it is kinda overrated -and imo a waste of money- and some other stuff. But I got beaten to it by others. Oh well.
I would like to point out that in my case, a cleric's role isnt made obvious at the start. Having Wis as the primary stat, we are LEAD to believe that we are gonna heal a lot. So therefore, i rolled into Wis heavy build. Later cryptic decided to add healing depression, which heavily impact on this particular primary stat.. Now I wanna know your reasoning about saying it's overrated. The only way cleric can be viable in pvp is to be able to throw mitigation/debuff encounters as readily as possible, therefore Cha is actually more important as it adds recharge speed without being affected by diminishing return...
So, to conclude, while I, having specced into Wis build (with some Cha) can only have around 34-35% recharge speed with 3.4k-ish recovery.
On the other hand, those who rolled their initial stat correctly, can have 40-41%+ recharge speed increase with around the same amount of recovery.. while having the pretty much the SAME amount of healing power since healing depression.
That 5-7% recharge difference means the world in PVP... either we are able to mitigate the incoming GWFs prone rotation.. or our recharge are slower than the GWF.. which means death. With going Wisdom, basically you gain like 4% more healing, but theres righteousness and healing depression, so there is no reward for going Wisdom, since the healing is so weak (and also nerfed like hell). Some would even say that healing is only a side-effect of our skills (whilst such 'side-effect' is actually contributed by our PRIMARY stat). Cleric's primary role is never in Healing to start with, they are more of a multipliers in battles.. Acting in buffing allies and debuffing their opponents, while providing mini top-up-maintenance heals. This kinda knowledge is only realized after about 2 months of casual playing.. no sort of knowledge a newbie can get when just starting. You can still go heal build and is in fact encouraged for mid-tiered pve.. But for PvP having healing rotation = suicide on the party.
So, no, i wouldnt say it's overrated.. in some cases, it affects way too much.
I was wondering if services for rerolling original stats and change race were ever going to happen. I think there is a demand for that as a service in the game for players that have a ton of time invested and don't want to start over with a new character so that we can get our rolls right. Also a change race token would be nice as well so that we can explore some of the other races or dial in on the one that works best for us. It should be a pay in ad service like respecting or change appearance. So what do you say...
Well, the whole "rolling the stats" thing is somewhat awkward in itself. I am sure almost everyone keeps hitting the mouse button until they get a combination they like and will not accept the first, random offer there is. So it would be a good idea to get rid of it all together or to have a more convenient interface for choosing the initial stats.
About the service idea, while it is not a bad one, can one still do a lot with only the respec service. There are only so many stats and one can shift enough points around with a respec that not everyone will require a complete reroll. I am guessing that this will leave the suggestion with only a low priority and that it will either take a long time for it to happen or that it may never happen (there might always be something more important to work on than this).
I am not sure about the race change though. It is a unique feature that one is stuck with one's choice. Then again one could ask for a service to change the class, too, ...
I am not sure about the race change though. It is a unique feature that one is stuck with one's choice. Then again one could ask for a service to change the class, too, ...
I don't think so. There is no reason to assume that race change would lead to class change when no other game offers it. If I am stuck with every choice I've made, why can I change my name? People end up putting a lot of money into characters and it makes no sense to tell them to just make a new character. Anyway, I am not trying to convince anyone that the idea is good, it's already a common MMO feature, I just want a reason why it can't exist in Neverwinter.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited May 2014
I'd say that rerolling stats should either be incorporated into the current respec token, or sold as a separate service. Race change might be a little more complicated - what if you had a race quest active when you used the token? Would that quest get dropped, and the most recent one for your new race auto-added?
A class change would just be too problematic - would a character that changed class be stuck with all this bound gear that they couldn't use? It would also, by necessity, incorporate a full respec, so there's also that...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Well, the whole "rolling the stats" thing is somewhat awkward in itself. I am sure almost everyone keeps hitting the mouse button until they get a combination they like and will not accept the first, random offer there is. So it would be a good idea to get rid of it all together or to have a more convenient interface for choosing the initial stats.
I agree. Being unable to allocate Ability Score points and having to use a preset one is not enjoyable. Allocating Ability Score points should be an important feature in a RPG.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
I agree. Being unable to allocate Ability Score points and having to use a preset one is not enjoyable. Allocating Ability Score points should be an important feature in a RPG.
Do you guys think it would be OP to simply set all stats to, say, 10, then provide a pool of point to distribute among them, (before racial attributes and such)?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Comments
In RPG, there's 2 phases, the initial roll and allocation of points to your character (creation) and the experience investment part (play). The respec possibilities in Neverwinter cover all the experience investment part. It's not illogical to stop there.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
So, there is lore in regards to this, and even a precedence!
Of course, there is the fact that the sex of your toon has zero affect on anything at all ever except RP and cosmetic issues, and race is also highly cosmetic, and usually more of a personal choice than anything else.
If you're choosing tiefling purely because you want those stat bonuses (and not because you want a waggy tail and sweet horns), then you're presumably knowledgeable enough to understand the stat system, so it's irrelevant.
If you're choosing tiefling because you want sweet horns and the most adorably waggy tail, then you're less likely to realise that "con is really important to stack for a PvP GWF, but almost completely irrelevant as a PvE GWF" (for instance).
TL: DR version, stat rolls are totally impersonal and affect nothing EXCEPT core game mechanics, whereas the same cannot be said for sex and race. Oh, and of course you'd have to work out how to handle the race-specific quests and so on (something you wouldn't need to do if you were just adding functionality for base stat rerolls).
content, content and content.
if they done it from the start no nerfing would be needed at all.
Times change very quickly And you had to grow up early. A house in smoking ruins and the bodies at your feet ~Iron Maiden
Agreed. Higher tiered dungeons with BOE rewards to promote continued farming of them.
Crafting dailies
PVP modes, PVP maps
Make alchemy pots cost less resources, make them BIS and BOP
Dodge looked (still way to laggy)
GWF looked at. enough is enough.
More maps.
Why BoP? I don't see why it shouldn't be feasible to have a potion business if the costs made it worth it. Granted that I'd take it if it meant that the profession was actually worth using. People make AD from most other professions after all whether it be from leadership or shirt/pant making.
It's already a simple do over for everything but this. you can train your strength to be +6, and with the touch of a button, change it to +6 dex. You can train a path, and with the touch of a button, you have brand new knowledge that you are proficiant in, and completly forgot what you knew before.
strong magic is everywhere in this world. anyone can ride exotic mounts and have exotic pets, that would be so rare in a real d&d campaign that maybe only 1 in 1000 would have one. 30 psudo dragons roaming around in protectors enclave, yea. the magic it would take to enslave or coerce something that powerful would be off the charts, yet for a little zen....you are beastmaster supreme.
The only reason I can think of to not allow rerolls is so you have to re-level a new character.
Other case is, seeing how 'fluid' the neverwinter update regarding balancing is.. :
For example, as a cleric..
With the latest patch of healing depression, you are completely screwed for investing fully in healing power (Wis).. also with all the other lost (such as the 8 points that become 10 @ lvl 60 which give no benefit at all (why is this anyway?)).
I feel that we really need to be able to buy ability scroll reset..
Some might say "Quit whining / QQing, just make a new character.. it wont be hard to raise a new one to lvl 60"... Well my friend! That's not the case... what about the companions/equipments/coin/etc that is already bound to that character? What about the achievements that we work so hard building on that character? What about the boon quests that took so much time to complete?? Will all those hardworked character be for nothing except a benchwarmer / invocator / profession junkie?
I really need some explanations here, in case I miss anything. Thanks
I think the majority of players are not theory-crafters or min-maxers or whatever else. I made my first few characters having no idea how the whole picture worked or how points would be given. I can live with the choices I made- I don't think I made any bad ones. I just didn't make the choices I would have made in retrospect.
I might not feel this way if tool tips were 100% reliable, or even made sense in some cases. But they aren't and they sometimes don't.
As far as making a new character.. well that's not a problem, I do and I did, and that's great. But I think my characters have.. character. I like them. It's kind of the point of the game. Why on earth would I want to delete them, when all that needs to happen is a simple concession that would hurt no one?
Or it can stay like it is and we'll all go marching merrily along. But I like friendlier option better. =D
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
The way I see it, there's money to be made here.
So, if I were in the shoes of the developers, I will be charging at least 1000ZEN and possibly more for this.
If ability roll reset tokens appear on the ZEN market, it most likely won't be cheap but I'm sure there will be quite a number of happy customers.
Another thing I read about here is that unless you are a min-maxer, the ability rolls wouldn't hurt you much in the long run unless it is really very screwed up like say if you plunge most of the stats into one of the attributes that is not for your class.
Sorry I can't give you a better answer but perhaps someone else will. Good luck=)
Hi, just to clarify.
The current respec tokens only allow respec of abilities, feats and stats allocation points.
They don't allow reroll of the initial stats.
Unless you mean they added it in already?
Anyway, I believe OP is asking for the ability to reroll the original stats, that we rolled at character creation.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
I would like to point out that in my case, a cleric's role isnt made obvious at the start. Having Wis as the primary stat, we are LEAD to believe that we are gonna heal a lot. So therefore, i rolled into Wis heavy build. Later cryptic decided to add healing depression, which heavily impact on this particular primary stat.. Now I wanna know your reasoning about saying it's overrated. The only way cleric can be viable in pvp is to be able to throw mitigation/debuff encounters as readily as possible, therefore Cha is actually more important as it adds recharge speed without being affected by diminishing return...
So, to conclude, while I, having specced into Wis build (with some Cha) can only have around 34-35% recharge speed with 3.4k-ish recovery.
On the other hand, those who rolled their initial stat correctly, can have 40-41%+ recharge speed increase with around the same amount of recovery.. while having the pretty much the SAME amount of healing power since healing depression.
That 5-7% recharge difference means the world in PVP... either we are able to mitigate the incoming GWFs prone rotation.. or our recharge are slower than the GWF.. which means death. With going Wisdom, basically you gain like 4% more healing, but theres righteousness and healing depression, so there is no reward for going Wisdom, since the healing is so weak (and also nerfed like hell). Some would even say that healing is only a side-effect of our skills (whilst such 'side-effect' is actually contributed by our PRIMARY stat). Cleric's primary role is never in Healing to start with, they are more of a multipliers in battles.. Acting in buffing allies and debuffing their opponents, while providing mini top-up-maintenance heals. This kinda knowledge is only realized after about 2 months of casual playing.. no sort of knowledge a newbie can get when just starting. You can still go heal build and is in fact encouraged for mid-tiered pve.. But for PvP having healing rotation = suicide on the party.
So, no, i wouldnt say it's overrated.. in some cases, it affects way too much.
Thanks
About the service idea, while it is not a bad one, can one still do a lot with only the respec service. There are only so many stats and one can shift enough points around with a respec that not everyone will require a complete reroll. I am guessing that this will leave the suggestion with only a low priority and that it will either take a long time for it to happen or that it may never happen (there might always be something more important to work on than this).
I am not sure about the race change though. It is a unique feature that one is stuck with one's choice. Then again one could ask for a service to change the class, too, ...
I don't think so. There is no reason to assume that race change would lead to class change when no other game offers it. If I am stuck with every choice I've made, why can I change my name? People end up putting a lot of money into characters and it makes no sense to tell them to just make a new character. Anyway, I am not trying to convince anyone that the idea is good, it's already a common MMO feature, I just want a reason why it can't exist in Neverwinter.
A class change would just be too problematic - would a character that changed class be stuck with all this bound gear that they couldn't use? It would also, by necessity, incorporate a full respec, so there's also that...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Do you guys think it would be OP to simply set all stats to, say, 10, then provide a pool of point to distribute among them, (before racial attributes and such)?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums