Is it just me or is every CW coming on asking for some sort of buff and use the GWF as an excuse
If you look at the preview shard GWF is getting hammered down hard.. An OP GWF in pvp may not even exist in mod 3...
The last class that needs any of their encounters buffed is the CW.. Seriously...
Seems though being gods in pve isn't enough for the cW player base anymore
yeah they just get used to 1 shot everything and cc lock while in pve so they think it should be like this in pvp cw is more then fine in pvp atm a pvp focused cw is lot better then gf,dc,dps tr,dps gwf
u need to make cw focused on pvp with pvp race,socores,feat path and gear to play pvp
for example cw can 1 shot my gwf with iceknife ?dose this means gwf needed a buff or my gwf is not just builded for pvp? by logic of some ppl gwf need huge buff so dose tr,gf, since u cant come in pvp with them builded for pve and kill all pvp focused ppl easy
The difference in the situation the OP discribes is that meatball was interrupted while takedown completely missed.
If takedown completely misses, it will go on shorter CD, but in a 1v1 it will uncommonly completely miss. The only way a decent player will completely miss it is if they misjudge distance. It will either be dodged or it will hit, becauses the ability isn't an AoE, it's a target spell that locks on a target.
Basically I'm saying the OP is lying about the whole situation of him missing his takedowns. Or he is not nearly as good as he makes himself out to be. This game has zero competitive community because their is no way for teams to reliably play against each other. Their is basically a small handful of -above average- players that call themselves the "high level premades", that's the competitive and "high level" community in this game.
This game has zero competitive community because their is no way for teams to reliably play against each other. Their is basically a small handful of -above average- players that call themselves the "high level premades", that's the competitive and "high level" community in this game.
Cause when they nerf a class, I'll just dump it in the "unused" bin and play the most OP, FOTM build that's out there. So... I can speak the truth, since it has no impact on me. All my chars are fully geared and always will be. No nerfs can hurt me.
Please... I have 1 of every class, and 2(of different setups) of 3 of them. Im still going to play EVERY class even with mod 3, and im still going to love it. You cant say it doesn't impact you, because youre saying youll dump your classes in the "unused" bin. If no nerfs can hurt you, why did you even post this thread in the first place?
If you want shorter cooldowns for the cw's MOST OP ENCOUNTER, then I want damage buffs and shorter cooldowns on all hr encounters. You want to be mad your character's not top in pvp anymore, fine, but don't go crying that theyre not at the top of BOTH pvp and pve anymore.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
If anything, CW's need a massive tone down and they will hopefully get what they deserve.
The crying CW's is the reason why i had to quit playing my GWF. Now have some of your own medicine.
If anything, CW's need a massive tone down and they will hopefully will get what they deserve.
The crying CW's is the reason why i had to quit playing my GWF. Now have some of your own medicine.
also, inb4lock
yeah i hope we wont need to wait for nerf another year since cw is just broken for year allready
Dude, you are talking like meatball is the only specc for the cw. Meatball cant beat most classes 1v1 anymore.
Also i dont know what level of pvp you are playing on, but i would love a 1v1 so you can shut up about cws already.
pm me with your handle or ingame name whatever
I already fought your CW inna on numerous occasions on each of my chars but the HR. You lost almost each time, probably killed me while I was low on HP a few times. You have a suboptimal char that gets CCed easily and dies just as fast, sorry to say it. I will never connect my forum handle to the ingame one. I made separate handles because the things I will say here will upset many people in my guild, and friends as well, but truth has to be told.
Also there aren't any good CWs that don't play meatball. Those repels and Renegade RoEs from mastery are laughable at best. You have no idea how many TRs and GWFs hate them cause you make us miss our encounters.
Basically I'm saying the OP is lying about the whole situation of him missing his takedowns. Or he is not nearly as good as he makes himself out to be.
I think you never played against good CWs that actually know to jump around and dodge. You can call me a liar, but any GWF misses takedowns sometimes. The bad ones often, and the good ones... rarely.
*snippetty-snip* I will never connect my forum handle to the ingame one. I made separate handles because the things I will say here will upset many people in my guild, and friends as well, but truth has to be told.*snippetty-snip-snip-snip*
I think you do not even have ONE fully geared toon and are just trying to tell us some fairy tales. We could see your gear if you were using your "real" acc. In other words, anything you claim is irrellevant, until you show us proof.
I think you do not even have ONE fully geared toon and are just trying to tell us some fairy tales. We could see your gear if you were using your "real" acc. In other words, anything you claim is irrellevant, until you show us proof.
I have 3 chars with Rank 10s, all boons, full PvP spec, perfects, GWF, TR, CW. A HR with r5s and no armor and weapon enchant (yet) that I'm trying to find a use for. A GF that I no longer play. Countless leadership drones.
I cannot care less about your desire for proof I never met you once in PvP and I played with/against all the big names, so you're an unknown.
Also all my mains are on different accounts as well.
Let's just say that the Internet is a nasty place where nasty people do nasty stuff.
cw is more then fine in pvp atm a pvp focused cw is lot better then gf,dc,dps tr,dps gwf
u need to make cw focused on pvp with pvp race,socores,feat path and gear to play pvp
As above, my CW is a full r10 halfling with full PvP spec. The CW I fought described in first post has basically the same gear and build as I have. We did theorycrafting and testing together.
well if you say you have beaten me before on each of your charr, you would have no problem 1v1ing me with your best charr then?
Yeah you guessed correctly. I would have no issues dueling you (although I might even decide to troll you on the TR, and you know how shocking works these days, right?).
But:
- 1vs1 doesn't prove anything, even if you would beat me
- there won't be any duel, ever, or better said, there might be, but you won't know it's me
Arguments on the forums are won by... argumentation, not by dueling inside the game.
Can I please remind everybody the topic is about Takedown vs Meatball reduced cooldown on miss?
It is interesting that (PvE, lol) GWFs cannot accept that some encounter works on par with theirs. Oh well.
I already fought your CW inna on numerous occasions on each of my chars but the HR. You lost almost each time, probably killed me while I was low on HP a few times. You have a suboptimal char that gets CCed easily and dies just as fast, sorry to say it. I will never connect my forum handle to the ingame one. I made separate handles because the things I will say here will upset many people in my guild, and friends as well, but truth has to be told.
Also there aren't any good CWs that don't play meatball. Those repels and Renegade RoEs from mastery are laughable at best. You have no idea how many TRs and GWFs hate them cause you make us miss our encounters.
I think you never played against good CWs that actually know to jump around and dodge. You can call me a liar, but any GWF misses takedowns sometimes. The bad ones often, and the good ones... rarely.
While were talking about encounter (class vs class), why cant takedown hit harder, and have prone aoe damage then? shard does both prone and aoe damage, while takedown doesn't. if you want them on par, fine, but increase takedown's damage to shard's, and make it an aoe prone as well?
Shard in pvp is a high risk, high reward move. It hits them... it hurts. It misses... you get burned for it. You want to elevate their strongest non daily move, whereas takedown, while a good proning move, doesn't hurt as much as even a non meatball build shard does.
Comparing Shard to takedown is like comparing cw's chill strike to hr's aimed shot. Chill strike has reliable cooldown, damage, even a half second stun, whereas aimed shot does great damage, but requires you to be left alone, immobile, properly positioned. Youre comparing a situational attack versus an all around but limited attack.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
So what your saying is the TR is the only charr you might beat me on since you will build your AP and shocking me?
Well congrats, you are at the top level.
How people can even compare takedown to shard, is beyond me.
The entire thread smells like troll bait.
I think youre right
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
While were talking about encounter (class vs class), why cant takedown hit harder, and have prone aoe damage then? shard does both prone and aoe damage, while takedown doesn't. if you want them on par, fine, but increase takedown's damage to shard's, and make it an aoe prone as well?
Shard in pvp is a high risk, high reward move. It hits them... it hurts. It misses... you get burned for it. You want to elevate their strongest non daily move, whereas takedown, while a good proning move, doesn't hurt as much as even a non meatball build shard does.
Comparing Shard to takedown is like comparing cw's chill strike to hr's aimed shot. Chill strike has reliable cooldown, damage, even a half second stun, whereas aimed shot does great damage, but requires you to be left alone, immobile, properly positioned. Youre comparing a situational attack versus an all around but limited attack.
Yeah these are actually good points and the type of discussion I was looking forward to. I agree with most of the stuff here, with the exception that meatball doesn't necessarily hit harder than takedown and the AoE, while important, is not why CWs use it. It's the prone-lock and the team synergy and support.
As mentioned before, from my perspective, it's OK if things remain the same. I'll still have the reduced cooldown on my GWF It's like playing with a reassurance. I'm the type of girl that never gets attached too much to anything. If it works, I'll use it. If it doesn't, I'm ditching it for something that works better.
In this post-Tenacity period, that means my CW accumulates dust and does the GG and PvP dailies only, and my TR and GWF see all the action. This makes me a bit sad, sort of, but not too much, if you know what I mean. What I'm really looking forward to is making a HR that is even more OP than the TR and GWF I have - I have witnessed HRs being able of true, unadulterated OPness in PvP. The only thing that keeps me from fully investing in it (yet) is the fact that the devs play with it too much for my financial safety.
Yeah these are actually good points and the type of discussion I was looking forward to. I agree with most of the stuff here, with the exception that meatball doesn't necessarily hit harder than takedown and the AoE, while important, is not why CWs use it. It's the prone-lock and the team synergy and support.
The problem I have is that shard DOES hit more than takedown. Any experienced cw knows it does. That's why pre-tenacity, not many cw's DIDNT run shard in pvp AND pve... it hits hard, kills mobs, prones all in its radius. The only encounter that compares to it is frontline surge, and that has a 5 target hit limit, meh line aoe, whereas shard can hit more mobs.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
The problem I have is that shard DOES hit more than takedown. Any experienced cw knows it does. That's why pre-tenacity, not many cw's DIDNT run shard in pvp AND pve... it hits hard, kills mobs, prones all in its radius. The only encounter that compares to it is frontline surge, and that has a 5 target hit limit, meh line aoe, whereas shard can hit more mobs.
Pure PvP discussion here. I think you are right if you consider both shard slam and shardplosion, which on crit, maxed CW, should be around 8-10K damage. Takedown should be 6-8K damage.
Pure PvP discussion here. I think you are right if you consider both shard slam and shardplosion, which on crit, maxed CW, should be around 8-10K damage. Takedown should be 6-8K damage.
Pure pvp discussion still. I know for a fact, as does any other cw, that shard crits for much higher... my pvp cw runs full thaumaturge, with close to 5k power, and I hit higher than your advertising on average hits, let alone crits. whereas my iv gwf with ALMOST THE SAME POWER as my cw hits at best what youre saying... and that's with a lucky hit, and during unstoppable(destroyer's purpose).
Average hits, shard does almost double damage to takedown. Crit hits, Shard does more damage than most people's dailies.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I'm sure some GWF players would find that entirely reasonable. After all, they're already the fastest moving, hardest to kill and hardest-hitting guys around, so it's not fair that they don't have the best ranged attacks too.
Don't lump me with that guy... I was just being sarcastic when I said it in the first place. Shard does so much, so of course it should have some drawbacks, whereas takedown, while an awesome prone, doesn't do as much damage, is single target, and is melee target.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Greetings, everyone. As most of you know I main as a TR but my love for the CW class is pretty much the same as my love for my main class. We've been seeing a LOT of posts concerning how gimped CW's are in PVP, and truth be told I wholeheartedly agree. CW's need a lot of loving for PVP, but they're in a good spot right now for PVE. For PVP however, CW's tend to report having trouble regarding GWF's, TR's and HR's, which are currently the top choices for PVP classes after the Tenacity Patch. But if we think about it carefully, it's not exactly those 3 classes who are OP, but rather it's the CW class that is severely underpowered. I shall be discussing some possible buffs and reworks to the class and all of these are purely ideas which I think would add new dimensions to playing the CW class. Please refrain from discussing stuff like CW's being overpowered for PVE. That's for another thread and we've got LOADS of those already. So let me begin by discussing the strengths and weaknesses of a CW class.
The CW class has the following strengths.
Gratuitous amounts of CC Abilities.
66% CC Resistance Penetration for PVP.
Insane AoE damage.
Most abilities have an 80' range.
Eye of the Storm.
The CW class has the following weaknesses.
VERY LITTLE defensive and utility powers.
Which leads to very linear play styles.
Very little true defensive capabilities.
Limited creative ways to spec a CW.
Too much skills that do not benefit from ArP and/or bugged.
Range doesn't contribute much for a node-holding meta.
Single-target damage is much more preferred over AoE.
Very little ways to properly increase CC efficacy.
Doesn't help that Orb of Imposition is bugged.
Zero ways to mitigate, break, or attain immunity for CC.
Class Mechanics like the Arcane Stacks are ambiguous, clunky, and hard to maneuver.
Being able to play a good balance in offense and defense is what wins PVP matches more often than not. GWF's have their Unstoppable + powerful single-target DPS encounters, TR's have Stealth + Immunities and powerful single-target At-Wills, HR's have their 6 Dodges + 6 Encounters and sick utility skills, while the rest of the other classes that have not been mentioned needs some tweaking. CW's shine best in PVE settings, as AoE is the way to go in there, and there are very limited mobs that are immune to CC. But they cannot expect to do the same in PVP, as it is a more brutal environment against living, thinking players.
Which is why I'd like to present some possible solutions that may aid the CW class in patching up some of their most glaring weaknesses which is their Defensive and Utility capabilities. Burst has been mitigated for all classes but CW's can still dish out a competitive amount of DPS, though the problem is that CW's have absolutely minimal defensive mechanics.
Buff Shield: Shield is one of the best Encounters to buff in order to give the CW's some defensive capabilities, but the major damage mitigation of Shield is easy to bypass because all a person needs to do is to strike the CW once with any At-Will in order to damage the Shield and the CW is left with only 10% DR. My suggestion is to buff the base Damage Reduction of Shield by another 10%, giving them a total base of 20% at Rank 3 Shield. In addition, another weakness for CW's is that they do not have an ability to break CC or resist them. I also suggest that Shield forgoes the damage it deals and replace it with 10% CC resistance per rank of Shield, and popping Shield would break a CW from CC's that affect him. This way the CW would be able to clear some ground for himself via the Push mechanic of the Shield Pop, and he gets some breathing room by being able to break out of CC. I think it's a fair buff, as PVP revolves around rendering your opponents immobile and unable to react via CC, and CW's deserve some way to break out of CC themselves. Every class needs at least one method to be able to react against CC.
Rework Repel: Repel is almost utterly useless for PVP due to its long CD and sub-par effect. There are also a lot of ways to resist Repel (Tenacity, Racial Resistances, etc). Make it deal zero damage with this rework, and make it behave like the HR's Hindering Shot. Give it a base CD of 15 seconds, and give it 3 charges with a cooldown of 3 seconds per use. Having Charges on a skill like Repel means a CW will be able to get more opportunities to blow a melee class away such as TR's and GWF's. In addition, if the target is immune to CC, instead of the CW blowing off an encounter without an effect, Repel will instead propel the CW away from the target in order to increase the distance between them. It'll be like the CW is using Repel on himself to get away from the opponent. Again, this is a utility and defensive buff. It's hard to think that this'll break the PVP or PVE meta in any way.
Rework Arcane Presence: Arcane Stacks, or an Arcane Mastery Play Style is something hard to manipulate with or spec for due to the fact that it's tough to control the stacks you have in order to have your skills perform with their desired effectiveness. Arcane Stacks drop pretty quickly, hard to generate as compared to Chill Stacks, and this pretty much renders its overall effects for the CW's Arcane Encounters useless. It's like it exists only to become an added bonus you can't control, but giving CW's an easier time to generate and control Arcane Stacks will open up a WIDE variety of play styles; and Arcane Presence may be the first step to doing this. I suggest reworking Arcane Presence to have an effect where a CW will get a 34%/33%/33% chance to generate an Arcane Mastery Stack each time he afflicts an enemy with Chill. This way Arcane Presence will not lose its Chill Interplay sort of function it currently has right now. Will this break PVP or PVE? Absolutely not, because this is a utility change, and a Class Feature that players will have to slot in order to be able to benefit from its effects. Players will have to choose to let go of the more commonly used Class Features such as Eye of the Storm, a CF that is irreplaceable for CW's who wish to generate bursts upon bursts of damage, and Storm Spell which is a large contributor for the DPS of CW's as it procs very often. They will have to choose if they truly want to generate Arcane Stacks faster for its utility, or get increased DPS from the Spellstorm Class Features.
Rework Chilling Presence: Chilling Presence is already a good Class Feature in itself as 18% increased DPS at max stacks of Chill is nothing to scoff at. However not too many CW's slot this because of how unreliable it can be. So I believe it's safe to say that reworking this to be more enticing and useful for CW's will be a benefit for the entirety of the game as this rework may introduce some more defensive play styles for both PVP and PVE. I suggest reworking Chilling Presence to have the following effects. Chilling Presence will create a player-based AoE on the CW that adds a stack of chill against enemies within 10'/15'/20' (+5' per rank) of the CW, and this Class Feature will pulse every 5/4/3 seconds (-1 per rank). This way the CW will be able to have some additional control for PVE without actually dealing damage, while this Class Feature will function as a Defensive and Utility mechanic against melee classes which are the bane of ranged classes. Unseen opponents and Unstoppable GWF's will freeze on the spot when enough time has passed against a CW with this Class Feature on. Melee classes will have to think twice if they wish to go Rambo against you with this on. Also, just for a little bit of fun, I'm imagining this Class Feature's animation to be a blue pulse of ice crystals every 3 seconds just like the ones we see from Chilling Cloud, except it's a little bit bigger.
Buff Orb of Imposition: Absolutely zero CW's use this Class Feature due to how bugged it is. It is reported to have no effects on increasing one's CC duration. Not only that, an additional 15% will not help at all for both PVP and PVE. CC is a CW's main mode of defense. I highly suggest that CW's should be allowed to spec for CC if they wish to, and Orb of Imposition is a good tool to achieve this. Some players play the CW class to become orchestrators of the battlefield, controlling the tides of battle for the benefit of his team. Buffing Orb of Imposition to behave just like the TR's Sneak Attack and allowing it to give the CW an increase of 10% increased CC per rank should show some results. The CW will have to replace one of the more commonly used DPS Class Features such as Storm Spell and Eye of the Storm in order to be able to benefit from this, so in essence such a buff will still retain the CC balance we have right now for the PVP class who can bring the most amount of CC's in one encounter load out.
Buff Icy Terrain on Tab: Make the activation time of Icy Terrain on Tab become instantaneous instead of making it need to take the time to travel from the player location to the desired location. It feels awfully clunky and its current mechanic doesn't merit it being used from Tab. If the activation time is instantaneous, it'll be a good way to root enemies in place, from range, while adding some stacks of Chill in the process, without any clunky mechanics involved.
And that's about it from me. If anyone else has any other ideas, reactions or additions to this set of suggestions for the CW class please feel free to chime in. I personally would like to be able to see new ways to play the CW class. It gets tiring to be forced to play as a glass cannon when I a player wishes to play in more engaging ways that involves more control and utility.
I also posted a thread regarding a couple of Buff Suggestions for the Oppressor Path in the Preview Forum. Please feel free to check it out as well. Thank you for reading and hopefully we get to see some nice CW implementations in the future.
No dont come here with your ideas for buffing a CW when its my favourite meal in domination;) No but seriously the cws need some change for sure, i know a lot of good cws. But how hard they try to fight and equaly good geard gwf/hr/tr they will usually end up dead. Must be very frustrating to have a char that u spent alot of time and AD on that cant do very well in pvp. And people dont come here now and say that CWs are OP in PVE they dont need to be good at both. Some ppl dont play this game for pve since its TO GADDAM EASY! :P
No dont come here with your ideas for buffing a CW when its my favourite meal in domination;) No but seriously the cws need some change for sure, i know a lot of good cws. But how hard they try to fight and equaly good geard gwf/hr/tr they will usually end up dead. Must be very frustrating to have a char that u spent alot of time and AD on that cant do very well in pvp. And people dont come here now and say that CWs are OP in PVE they dont need to be good at both. Some ppl dont play this game for pve since its TO GADDAM EASY! :P
There are lots of player out there that can't even play PVE...
Comments
yeah they just get used to 1 shot everything and cc lock while in pve so they think it should be like this in pvp cw is more then fine in pvp atm a pvp focused cw is lot better then gf,dc,dps tr,dps gwf
u need to make cw focused on pvp with pvp race,socores,feat path and gear to play pvp
for example cw can 1 shot my gwf with iceknife ?dose this means gwf needed a buff or my gwf is not just builded for pvp? by logic of some ppl gwf need huge buff so dose tr,gf, since u cant come in pvp with them builded for pve and kill all pvp focused ppl easy
If takedown completely misses, it will go on shorter CD, but in a 1v1 it will uncommonly completely miss. The only way a decent player will completely miss it is if they misjudge distance. It will either be dodged or it will hit, becauses the ability isn't an AoE, it's a target spell that locks on a target.
Basically I'm saying the OP is lying about the whole situation of him missing his takedowns. Or he is not nearly as good as he makes himself out to be. This game has zero competitive community because their is no way for teams to reliably play against each other. Their is basically a small handful of -above average- players that call themselves the "high level premades", that's the competitive and "high level" community in this game.
Ya, let's balance PvP around 10~ players...
shrad is one of the most op pve encounters in game and u want to buff it up even more so this dose efect pve
QFT.
/chars
Please... I have 1 of every class, and 2(of different setups) of 3 of them. Im still going to play EVERY class even with mod 3, and im still going to love it. You cant say it doesn't impact you, because youre saying youll dump your classes in the "unused" bin. If no nerfs can hurt you, why did you even post this thread in the first place?
If you want shorter cooldowns for the cw's MOST OP ENCOUNTER, then I want damage buffs and shorter cooldowns on all hr encounters. You want to be mad your character's not top in pvp anymore, fine, but don't go crying that theyre not at the top of BOTH pvp and pve anymore.
The crying CW's is the reason why i had to quit playing my GWF. Now have some of your own medicine.
also, inb4lock
yeah i hope we wont need to wait for nerf another year since cw is just broken for year allready
I already fought your CW inna on numerous occasions on each of my chars but the HR. You lost almost each time, probably killed me while I was low on HP a few times. You have a suboptimal char that gets CCed easily and dies just as fast, sorry to say it. I will never connect my forum handle to the ingame one. I made separate handles because the things I will say here will upset many people in my guild, and friends as well, but truth has to be told.
Also there aren't any good CWs that don't play meatball. Those repels and Renegade RoEs from mastery are laughable at best. You have no idea how many TRs and GWFs hate them cause you make us miss our encounters.
I think you never played against good CWs that actually know to jump around and dodge. You can call me a liar, but any GWF misses takedowns sometimes. The bad ones often, and the good ones... rarely.
I think you do not even have ONE fully geared toon and are just trying to tell us some fairy tales. We could see your gear if you were using your "real" acc. In other words, anything you claim is irrellevant, until you show us proof.
well if you say you have beaten me before on each of your charr, you would have no problem 1v1ing me with your best charr then?
I have 3 chars with Rank 10s, all boons, full PvP spec, perfects, GWF, TR, CW. A HR with r5s and no armor and weapon enchant (yet) that I'm trying to find a use for. A GF that I no longer play. Countless leadership drones.
I cannot care less about your desire for proof
Also all my mains are on different accounts as well.
Let's just say that the Internet is a nasty place where nasty people do nasty stuff.
I value my privacy above anything else.
As above, my CW is a full r10 halfling with full PvP spec. The CW I fought described in first post has basically the same gear and build as I have. We did theorycrafting and testing together.
Yeah you guessed correctly. I would have no issues dueling you (although I might even decide to troll you on the TR, and you know how shocking works these days, right?).
But:
- 1vs1 doesn't prove anything, even if you would beat me
- there won't be any duel, ever, or better said, there might be, but you won't know it's me
Arguments on the forums are won by... argumentation, not by dueling inside the game.
Can I please remind everybody the topic is about Takedown vs Meatball reduced cooldown on miss?
While were talking about encounter (class vs class), why cant takedown hit harder, and have prone aoe damage then? shard does both prone and aoe damage, while takedown doesn't. if you want them on par, fine, but increase takedown's damage to shard's, and make it an aoe prone as well?
Shard in pvp is a high risk, high reward move. It hits them... it hurts. It misses... you get burned for it. You want to elevate their strongest non daily move, whereas takedown, while a good proning move, doesn't hurt as much as even a non meatball build shard does.
Comparing Shard to takedown is like comparing cw's chill strike to hr's aimed shot. Chill strike has reliable cooldown, damage, even a half second stun, whereas aimed shot does great damage, but requires you to be left alone, immobile, properly positioned. Youre comparing a situational attack versus an all around but limited attack.
Well congrats, you are at the top level.
And, 1v1 > all
I think youre right
Yeah these are actually good points and the type of discussion I was looking forward to. I agree with most of the stuff here, with the exception that meatball doesn't necessarily hit harder than takedown and the AoE, while important, is not why CWs use it. It's the prone-lock and the team synergy and support.
As mentioned before, from my perspective, it's OK if things remain the same. I'll still have the reduced cooldown on my GWF
In this post-Tenacity period, that means my CW accumulates dust and does the GG and PvP dailies only, and my TR and GWF see all the action. This makes me a bit sad, sort of, but not too much, if you know what I mean. What I'm really looking forward to is making a HR that is even more OP than the TR and GWF I have - I have witnessed HRs being able of true, unadulterated OPness in PvP. The only thing that keeps me from fully investing in it (yet) is the fact that the devs play with it too much for my financial safety.
Ah lol thanks for the heads up. Yea its a troll, just see the previous posts. Still complaining about CW...
sheeesh... what's this world coming to...
The problem I have is that shard DOES hit more than takedown. Any experienced cw knows it does. That's why pre-tenacity, not many cw's DIDNT run shard in pvp AND pve... it hits hard, kills mobs, prones all in its radius. The only encounter that compares to it is frontline surge, and that has a 5 target hit limit, meh line aoe, whereas shard can hit more mobs.
Pure PvP discussion here. I think you are right if you consider both shard slam and shardplosion, which on crit, maxed CW, should be around 8-10K damage. Takedown should be 6-8K damage.
Pure pvp discussion still. I know for a fact, as does any other cw, that shard crits for much higher... my pvp cw runs full thaumaturge, with close to 5k power, and I hit higher than your advertising on average hits, let alone crits. whereas my iv gwf with ALMOST THE SAME POWER as my cw hits at best what youre saying... and that's with a lucky hit, and during unstoppable(destroyer's purpose).
Average hits, shard does almost double damage to takedown. Crit hits, Shard does more damage than most people's dailies.
Don't lump me with that guy... I was just being sarcastic when I said it in the first place. Shard does so much, so of course it should have some drawbacks, whereas takedown, while an awesome prone, doesn't do as much damage, is single target, and is melee target.
The CW class has the following strengths.
The CW class has the following weaknesses.
Being able to play a good balance in offense and defense is what wins PVP matches more often than not. GWF's have their Unstoppable + powerful single-target DPS encounters, TR's have Stealth + Immunities and powerful single-target At-Wills, HR's have their 6 Dodges + 6 Encounters and sick utility skills, while the rest of the other classes that have not been mentioned needs some tweaking. CW's shine best in PVE settings, as AoE is the way to go in there, and there are very limited mobs that are immune to CC. But they cannot expect to do the same in PVP, as it is a more brutal environment against living, thinking players.
Which is why I'd like to present some possible solutions that may aid the CW class in patching up some of their most glaring weaknesses which is their Defensive and Utility capabilities. Burst has been mitigated for all classes but CW's can still dish out a competitive amount of DPS, though the problem is that CW's have absolutely minimal defensive mechanics.
Buff Shield: Shield is one of the best Encounters to buff in order to give the CW's some defensive capabilities, but the major damage mitigation of Shield is easy to bypass because all a person needs to do is to strike the CW once with any At-Will in order to damage the Shield and the CW is left with only 10% DR. My suggestion is to buff the base Damage Reduction of Shield by another 10%, giving them a total base of 20% at Rank 3 Shield. In addition, another weakness for CW's is that they do not have an ability to break CC or resist them. I also suggest that Shield forgoes the damage it deals and replace it with 10% CC resistance per rank of Shield, and popping Shield would break a CW from CC's that affect him. This way the CW would be able to clear some ground for himself via the Push mechanic of the Shield Pop, and he gets some breathing room by being able to break out of CC. I think it's a fair buff, as PVP revolves around rendering your opponents immobile and unable to react via CC, and CW's deserve some way to break out of CC themselves. Every class needs at least one method to be able to react against CC.
Rework Repel: Repel is almost utterly useless for PVP due to its long CD and sub-par effect. There are also a lot of ways to resist Repel (Tenacity, Racial Resistances, etc). Make it deal zero damage with this rework, and make it behave like the HR's Hindering Shot. Give it a base CD of 15 seconds, and give it 3 charges with a cooldown of 3 seconds per use. Having Charges on a skill like Repel means a CW will be able to get more opportunities to blow a melee class away such as TR's and GWF's. In addition, if the target is immune to CC, instead of the CW blowing off an encounter without an effect, Repel will instead propel the CW away from the target in order to increase the distance between them. It'll be like the CW is using Repel on himself to get away from the opponent. Again, this is a utility and defensive buff. It's hard to think that this'll break the PVP or PVE meta in any way.
Rework Arcane Presence: Arcane Stacks, or an Arcane Mastery Play Style is something hard to manipulate with or spec for due to the fact that it's tough to control the stacks you have in order to have your skills perform with their desired effectiveness. Arcane Stacks drop pretty quickly, hard to generate as compared to Chill Stacks, and this pretty much renders its overall effects for the CW's Arcane Encounters useless. It's like it exists only to become an added bonus you can't control, but giving CW's an easier time to generate and control Arcane Stacks will open up a WIDE variety of play styles; and Arcane Presence may be the first step to doing this. I suggest reworking Arcane Presence to have an effect where a CW will get a 34%/33%/33% chance to generate an Arcane Mastery Stack each time he afflicts an enemy with Chill. This way Arcane Presence will not lose its Chill Interplay sort of function it currently has right now. Will this break PVP or PVE? Absolutely not, because this is a utility change, and a Class Feature that players will have to slot in order to be able to benefit from its effects. Players will have to choose to let go of the more commonly used Class Features such as Eye of the Storm, a CF that is irreplaceable for CW's who wish to generate bursts upon bursts of damage, and Storm Spell which is a large contributor for the DPS of CW's as it procs very often. They will have to choose if they truly want to generate Arcane Stacks faster for its utility, or get increased DPS from the Spellstorm Class Features.
Rework Chilling Presence: Chilling Presence is already a good Class Feature in itself as 18% increased DPS at max stacks of Chill is nothing to scoff at. However not too many CW's slot this because of how unreliable it can be. So I believe it's safe to say that reworking this to be more enticing and useful for CW's will be a benefit for the entirety of the game as this rework may introduce some more defensive play styles for both PVP and PVE. I suggest reworking Chilling Presence to have the following effects. Chilling Presence will create a player-based AoE on the CW that adds a stack of chill against enemies within 10'/15'/20' (+5' per rank) of the CW, and this Class Feature will pulse every 5/4/3 seconds (-1 per rank). This way the CW will be able to have some additional control for PVE without actually dealing damage, while this Class Feature will function as a Defensive and Utility mechanic against melee classes which are the bane of ranged classes. Unseen opponents and Unstoppable GWF's will freeze on the spot when enough time has passed against a CW with this Class Feature on. Melee classes will have to think twice if they wish to go Rambo against you with this on. Also, just for a little bit of fun, I'm imagining this Class Feature's animation to be a blue pulse of ice crystals every 3 seconds just like the ones we see from Chilling Cloud, except it's a little bit bigger.
Buff Orb of Imposition: Absolutely zero CW's use this Class Feature due to how bugged it is. It is reported to have no effects on increasing one's CC duration. Not only that, an additional 15% will not help at all for both PVP and PVE. CC is a CW's main mode of defense. I highly suggest that CW's should be allowed to spec for CC if they wish to, and Orb of Imposition is a good tool to achieve this. Some players play the CW class to become orchestrators of the battlefield, controlling the tides of battle for the benefit of his team. Buffing Orb of Imposition to behave just like the TR's Sneak Attack and allowing it to give the CW an increase of 10% increased CC per rank should show some results. The CW will have to replace one of the more commonly used DPS Class Features such as Storm Spell and Eye of the Storm in order to be able to benefit from this, so in essence such a buff will still retain the CC balance we have right now for the PVP class who can bring the most amount of CC's in one encounter load out.
Buff Icy Terrain on Tab: Make the activation time of Icy Terrain on Tab become instantaneous instead of making it need to take the time to travel from the player location to the desired location. It feels awfully clunky and its current mechanic doesn't merit it being used from Tab. If the activation time is instantaneous, it'll be a good way to root enemies in place, from range, while adding some stacks of Chill in the process, without any clunky mechanics involved.
And that's about it from me. If anyone else has any other ideas, reactions or additions to this set of suggestions for the CW class please feel free to chime in. I personally would like to be able to see new ways to play the CW class. It gets tiring to be forced to play as a glass cannon when I a player wishes to play in more engaging ways that involves more control and utility.
I also posted a thread regarding a couple of Buff Suggestions for the Oppressor Path in the Preview Forum. Please feel free to check it out as well.
There are lots of player out there that can't even play PVE...