CWs were never extremely strong in high-end PvP except against DCs and other CWs, but things were definitely better for the class when burst potential was higher and Repel had a niche application as a zoning tool against melee attackers (as opposed to failing constantly as it does now). I like most of what Tenacity has done for PvP except that CWs just don't have much going for them anymore. Weaker burst, range advantage defeated by numerous gap closers, mostly inconsequential CC...not looking so hot.
CWs were never amazing in high level PvP lol... I got asked to come on my CW only and ONLY when the other guild we were premading against had one and we had to match comps. Each other time people wanted my perma or GWF. All my chars are similarly geared... maxed... so this was not an issue. The only issue was that GWF and TR could do more. No point in bringing the weak class if you didn't have to.
It's crazy to state otherwise. Only proves some people never did PvP at high level (premade with maxed, full PvP specced toons).
As for Tenacity, it only made things worse. The gear I have to wear is bad, my CC is way worse, and my damage is way lower.
But it's OK, usually after suffering some crushing defeat with my CW I log the GWF and destroy people around (especially CWs...), finishing most matches with 0 deaths and 30 kills.
CWs were never amazing in high level PvP lol... I got asked to come on my CW only and ONLY when the other guild we were premading against had one and we had to match comps. Each other time people wanted my perma or GWF. All my chars are similarly geared... maxed... so this was not an issue. The only issue was that GWF and TR could do more. No point in bringing the weak class if you didn't have to.
It's crazy to state otherwise. Only proves some people never did PvP at high level (premade with maxed, full PvP specced toons).
As for Tenacity, it only made things worse. The gear I have to wear is bad, my CC is way worse, and my damage is way lower.
But it's OK, usually after suffering some crushing defeat with my CW I log the GWF and destroy people around (especially CWs...), finishing most matches with 0 deaths and 30 kills.
This is how I balance things out...
I think someone hasn't done pvp in the past... ever lol. Ive always heard(especially from a certain person in the past) that high end pvp in the past(including from those elitist pvp guilds) included many cw's involved in their team makeup. Anyone who states otherwise hasn't played pvp before tenacity. If a cw has to throw a fit about the state of pvp, its the current tenacity changes, not pvp past... nice try.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I think someone hasn't done pvp in the past... ever lol. Ive always heard(especially from a certain person in the past) that high end pvp in the past(including from those elitist pvp guilds) included many cw's involved in their team makeup. Anyone who states otherwise hasn't played pvp before tenacity. If a cw has to throw a fit about the state of pvp, its the current tenacity changes, not pvp past... nice try.
CW was my second toon, after my GF. I had a full tenebrous CW, if you know the metas, this should tell you something about how long I played the class. I even have a tiefling CW on the account that we used to think it was viable before we discovered halflings
Are you actually saying someone told you that PvP guilds included many CWs as a good class in their makeups? That never happened.
CW was my second toon, after my GF. I had a full tenebrous CW, if you know the metas, this should tell you something about how long I played the class. I even have a tiefling CW on the account that we used to think it was viable before we discovered halflings
Are you actually saying someone told you that PvP guilds included many CWs as a good class in their makeups? That never happened.
CW was my second toon, after gwf. I had a full hv plaguefire CW, back before hv was nerfed, and if you knew the metas, you would know that 1 cw with hv(past) was all you needed.
Are you actually saying that PVP guilds didn't use CWs in their team lineups? That always happened.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
It is, but all cw abilities have a slight telegraph time. I was just pointing out the short ones. If there was no activation time, cw's would be the greatest class. Steal Time with no activation time? OP. Shard of the Endless Avalanche with no activation time? OP. Icy Terrain with no telegraphing, and its aoe instantly hit? OP. You take your encounter's only weakness away, and cw becomes the most OP class ever. Shoot, with all the whining about HRs and GWFs abilities, most of their ones(Aimed Shot, IBS, Flourish, Commanding Shot) have decent telegraphing, and some are even interruptible. How many people would whine if Aimed Shot hit instantly, or couldn't be interrupted? The encounter's I described in my last post are the best cw encounters for versatility, with little weakness. By the way, I hit people with chill strike all the time, whereas any half decent player can dodge or interrupt shard... theres a difference there, as I pointed out.
Nitpick: CWs were always strong in pre-tenacity, high-end pvp, due to their high burst damage AND cc. Ask the top pvp guilds... pre-tenacity, the best compositions ran with gwf's, cw's, and dc's. Those are the teams that picked games apart. Yes, there were different team comps, but it always came down to who had more cw's and gwf's.
I'm not sure where my comment about CS got construed to read "let's eliminate casting times from all CW abilities," but that's not what I was going for. If you want to keep going, though, don't let me interrupt.
As for the rest, your perception of CWs' past performance in PvP is different from that of others. You can tell us all how essential CWs were to premades, but most of us will disagree with you. Tenacity just serves to exacerbate existing problems with the class in PvP.
I'm not sure where my comment about CS got construed to read "let's eliminate casting times from all CW abilities," but that's not what I was going for. If you want to keep going, though, don't let me interrupt.
As for the rest, your perception of CWs' past performance in PvP is different from that of others. You can tell us all how essential CWs were to premades, but most of us will disagree with you. Tenacity just serves to exacerbate existing problems with the class in PvP.
It was about the discussion of cw's telegraphed casting times, if you were paying attention. A past poster complained about CWs activation/casting times. I was addressing that, if you would read the post I was replying to... oh wait, that was YOURS. You stepped in on what I was telling to someone else, not my fault you didn't know what you were stepping in on in the first place. If youre going to butt in on a cw discussion, at least read the past posts before you start insulting people about the context of the post.
And as for your perception of CWs past performance in pvp, yours is also different from that of others. For one, I never said they were essential in premades, I just said that most of the top pvp guilds ran with wizards in their team comps. That doesn't mean they have to. You were saying they weren't used at all, which any person whos even fought against a pvp guild, or ran with one, would know otherwise. You can say that CWs didn't do diddly squat in the past, but most of us will disagree with you. Tenacity screwed CW's over, but they were a good class in PVP in the past, and any player whos played any pvp since beta can attest to that.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
It was about the discussion of cw's telegraphed casting times, if you were paying attention. A past poster complained about CWs activation/casting times. I was addressing that, if you would read the post I was replying to... oh wait, that was YOURS. You stepped in on what I was telling to someone else, not my fault you didn't know what you were stepping in on in the first place. If youre going to butt in on a cw discussion, at least read the past posts before you start insulting people about the context of the post.
And as for your perception of CWs past performance in pvp, yours is also different from that of others. For one, I never said they were essential in premades, I just said that most of the top pvp guilds ran with wizards in their team comps. That doesn't mean they have to. You were saying they weren't used at all, which any person whos even fought against a pvp guild, or ran with one, would know otherwise. You can say that CWs didn't do diddly squat in the past, but most of us will disagree with you. Tenacity screwed CW's over, but they were a good class in PVP in the past, and any player whos played any pvp since beta can attest to that.
My comment about CS not belonging on the list of fast casting times didn't have much to do with anything else. It was a minor call-out. You just decided to pick it up and run with it in the vein of your prior discussion, which I otherwise didn't participate in.
I'm not sure what about this discussion is getting you so worked up, but it's not really called for. You're still welcome to your own opinion even if others don't share it.
My comment about CS not belonging on the list of fast casting times didn't have much to do with anything else. It was a minor call-out. You just decided to pick it up and run with it in the vein of your prior discussion, which I otherwise didn't participate in.
I'm not sure what about this discussion is getting you so worked up, but it's not really called for. You're still welcome to your own opinion even if others don't share it.
You seemed to be insulting in the post, while not understanding the reason I posted in the first place, because the person I was replying to was saying that all cw spells take too long to cast, and I called him out on it, because the ones I explained are the shorter ones they have... which aren't as so god awful slow as he was advertising.
As far as your opinion, youre open to yours as well, even if others don't share yours either.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
You seemed to be insulting in the post, while not understanding the reason I posted in the first place, because the person I was replying to was saying that all cw spells take too long to cast, and I called him out on it, because the ones I explained are the shorter ones they have... which aren't as so god awful slow as he was advertising.
As far as your opinion, youre open to yours as well, even if others don't share yours either.
Let's chalk it up to miscommunication, then. Insult wasn't intended. I still disagree with you on the rest, but not as much as you seem to think. My intention was never to say that CWs were useless, but that they weren't top PvP picks prior to Tenacity, and that now the situation is even worse. On that very last part about post-Tenacity CWs we seem to agree, at least
My intention was never to say that CWs were useless, but that they weren't top PvP picks prior to Tenacity, and that now the situation is even worse. On that very last part about post-Tenacity CWs we seem to agree, at least
This is exactly how things were, and are. CW was always "meh" in PvP, never recognized as being a very strong class. That place always belonged to GWF and TR.
Did people take CWs on premades? Of course they did and still do. Mostly because:
- they have to match other premade's comp
- CW is a friend
- there's nobody else to take, ie. a GWF or TR or HR etc.
I'm very reluctant to take CWs in PvP if I don't know exactly what's up with them. There are maybe 5-10 of them that can actually be useful and even very good, depending on their team. That's an extremely low number for a whole game.
This is exactly how things were, and are. CW was always "meh" in PvP, never recognized as being a very strong class. That place always belonged to GWF and TR.
Did people take CWs on premades? Of course they did and still do. Mostly because:
- they have to match other premade's comp
- CW is a friend
- there's nobody else to take, ie. a GWF or TR or HR etc.
I'm very reluctant to take CWs in PvP if I don't know exactly what's up with them. There are maybe 5-10 of them that can actually be useful and even very good, depending on their team. That's an extremely low number for a whole game.
I agree. In PM vs PM, CWs are rarely taken....and good luck having 2x CWs on your team
Comments
CWs were never amazing in high level PvP lol... I got asked to come on my CW only and ONLY when the other guild we were premading against had one and we had to match comps. Each other time people wanted my perma or GWF. All my chars are similarly geared... maxed... so this was not an issue. The only issue was that GWF and TR could do more. No point in bringing the weak class if you didn't have to.
It's crazy to state otherwise. Only proves some people never did PvP at high level (premade with maxed, full PvP specced toons).
As for Tenacity, it only made things worse. The gear I have to wear is bad, my CC is way worse, and my damage is way lower.
But it's OK, usually after suffering some crushing defeat with my CW I log the GWF and destroy people around (especially CWs...), finishing most matches with 0 deaths and 30 kills.
This is how I balance things out...
I think someone hasn't done pvp in the past... ever lol. Ive always heard(especially from a certain person in the past) that high end pvp in the past(including from those elitist pvp guilds) included many cw's involved in their team makeup. Anyone who states otherwise hasn't played pvp before tenacity. If a cw has to throw a fit about the state of pvp, its the current tenacity changes, not pvp past... nice try.
CW was my second toon, after my GF. I had a full tenebrous CW, if you know the metas, this should tell you something about how long I played the class. I even have a tiefling CW on the account that we used to think it was viable before we discovered halflings
Are you actually saying someone told you that PvP guilds included many CWs as a good class in their makeups? That never happened.
CW was my second toon, after gwf. I had a full hv plaguefire CW, back before hv was nerfed, and if you knew the metas, you would know that 1 cw with hv(past) was all you needed.
Are you actually saying that PVP guilds didn't use CWs in their team lineups? That always happened.
I'm not sure where my comment about CS got construed to read "let's eliminate casting times from all CW abilities," but that's not what I was going for. If you want to keep going, though, don't let me interrupt.
As for the rest, your perception of CWs' past performance in PvP is different from that of others. You can tell us all how essential CWs were to premades, but most of us will disagree with you. Tenacity just serves to exacerbate existing problems with the class in PvP.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
It was about the discussion of cw's telegraphed casting times, if you were paying attention. A past poster complained about CWs activation/casting times. I was addressing that, if you would read the post I was replying to... oh wait, that was YOURS. You stepped in on what I was telling to someone else, not my fault you didn't know what you were stepping in on in the first place. If youre going to butt in on a cw discussion, at least read the past posts before you start insulting people about the context of the post.
And as for your perception of CWs past performance in pvp, yours is also different from that of others. For one, I never said they were essential in premades, I just said that most of the top pvp guilds ran with wizards in their team comps. That doesn't mean they have to. You were saying they weren't used at all, which any person whos even fought against a pvp guild, or ran with one, would know otherwise. You can say that CWs didn't do diddly squat in the past, but most of us will disagree with you. Tenacity screwed CW's over, but they were a good class in PVP in the past, and any player whos played any pvp since beta can attest to that.
My comment about CS not belonging on the list of fast casting times didn't have much to do with anything else. It was a minor call-out. You just decided to pick it up and run with it in the vein of your prior discussion, which I otherwise didn't participate in.
I'm not sure what about this discussion is getting you so worked up, but it's not really called for. You're still welcome to your own opinion even if others don't share it.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
You seemed to be insulting in the post, while not understanding the reason I posted in the first place, because the person I was replying to was saying that all cw spells take too long to cast, and I called him out on it, because the ones I explained are the shorter ones they have... which aren't as so god awful slow as he was advertising.
As far as your opinion, youre open to yours as well, even if others don't share yours either.
Let's chalk it up to miscommunication, then. Insult wasn't intended. I still disagree with you on the rest, but not as much as you seem to think. My intention was never to say that CWs were useless, but that they weren't top PvP picks prior to Tenacity, and that now the situation is even worse. On that very last part about post-Tenacity CWs we seem to agree, at least
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
This is exactly how things were, and are. CW was always "meh" in PvP, never recognized as being a very strong class. That place always belonged to GWF and TR.
Did people take CWs on premades? Of course they did and still do. Mostly because:
- they have to match other premade's comp
- CW is a friend
- there's nobody else to take, ie. a GWF or TR or HR etc.
I'm very reluctant to take CWs in PvP if I don't know exactly what's up with them. There are maybe 5-10 of them that can actually be useful and even very good, depending on their team. That's an extremely low number for a whole game.
I agree. In PM vs PM, CWs are rarely taken....and good luck having 2x CWs on your team