Agree. We have custom matches in STO, not counting as dailies until specific conditions are met, maybe do the same here?
AH, specific premade vs premade! I didn't actually know about that STO feature, that's pretty neat. We are planning more long term support for PvP and have some already in the works. This feature is definitely something we could do relatively easily, though we are locking down our next module at the moment so it probably wont come out soon.
I think something else may be coming to at least partially scratch the premade vs premade itch you have... Keep an eye out for upcoming news posts about our next module.
I think something else may be coming to at least partially scratch the premade vs premade itch you have... Keep an eye out for upcoming news posts about our next module.
Hmmm , I wonder if he could possibly be talking about a upcoming pvp tourney? can't think of anything else that could make players who want premade v premade happy
Hmmm , I wonder if he could possibly be talking about a upcoming pvp tourney? can't think of anything else that could make players who want premade v premade happy
I'm not , sorry not sorry. That DEFINITELY would scratch that itch. Though it is something we are starting to think about.
One more thing: Steel Defense JUST got a fix, thanks for kicking us on that!
0
kolbe11Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm not , sorry not sorry. That DEFINITELY would scratch that itch. Though it is something we are starting to think about.
One more thing: Steel Defense JUST got a fix, thanks for kicking us on that!
Any word on Knight's Challenge or Knight's Valor?
Also, any plans on a fix for balancing the factions in GG, or getting rid of the faction system altogether and just matching 20v20? Having to pay hundreds of thousands of diamonds to switch factions or make a new guild altogether because Delz can't get into pvp queue and lusk lose overall every single time because they are outnumbered 40:1 or greater is really lame. There's only 3 pvp maps and 1 is completely borked.
I'm not , sorry not sorry. That DEFINITELY would scratch that itch. Though it is something we are starting to think about.
Aww oh well , *puts thinking cap back on* although it is definitely good to hear you are thinking more about serious pvp , you guys have created a game with a really brilliant combat system and it is frustrating to see it going to waste from a player v player standpoint , this game has HUGE potential if developed the correct way and even though I'm by no means a expert pvper I have witnessed the pulling power that a really good pvp system can have as far as attracting a heck of a lot of new players to a game and a lot of new players benefits pveers and pvpers alike.
One more thing: Steel Defense JUST got a fix, thanks for kicking us on that!
I kinda feel wizards are neglected. Would you guys mind fixing at least Storm Pillar? PWEASE If you don't know the details, feel free to check this thread.
AH, specific premade vs premade! I didn't actually know about that STO feature, that's pretty neat. We are planning more long term support for PvP and have some already in the works. This feature is definitely something we could do relatively easily, though we are locking down our next module at the moment so it probably wont come out soon.
I think something else may be coming to at least partially scratch the premade vs premade itch you have... Keep an eye out for upcoming news posts about our next module.
So basically...
For now, Premade vs Premade matches will be dead for an undetermined period of time?
Please reconsider this and offer a feature or "fix" on the launch of the next module, because otherwise, this will completely kill the high end PvP community, who will be unable to set up matches against each other. Yes I realize this sounds like doom&gloom, yet it is the truth.
If things go live as they are, we will be at the mercy of matchmaking, without any chance to set up premades as we do now, and because of the penalty system, will be impossible to leave matches without wasting 30 minutes.
Kindly consider a quick fix of sorts before launch.
Premades: First I can see this as an issue at first but with just a little work/time could be easily dealt with. First of all guilds that make premades including in house will increase their player ranking rather quickly. Will only be a short time until queing as a guild premade will make your combined team rank score only compatible with other guild premades. So the game will match you with premades first very quickly. In the beginning this could be a pain though as pers3phone has pointed out, but in time you will only que against pugs if and only if there are no premades available. However Panderus has posted that there is something coming to help. I am very curious to see what that could be.
GF improvements
Perma-Mark: I think all the improvements are nice actually. Mark actually increases your dps towards your marked target as a debuff by the way. So a perma mark is a bit more useful than just threat. A lot of people seem to forget this. I've tested it myself so I know the debuff is valid. Mark was pretty much useless all around before except for kiting or solo boss duty due to how fast it dropped. With Conqueror if you blocked you kept mark but your power went down. If you didn't block your power stayed up but you lost mark. Now at least with bosses you can now do both.
Iron Warrior: The 150% additional threat is actually quite nice. I have seen people saying they have enough threat but that is actually not true in endgame. Try running with full BIS, r10, x3 Leg Artifact, PV CW's and see how long you hold threat... You won't. Most the game your threat is fine but in endgame BIS you start losing fast. Diminishing returns are low for GF's so at that level we lose ground. Especially if you want to play anything other than a Conqueror. I have been testing all 3 specs on preview and Prot actually becomes useful with that ability. You can run a full debuff Knight Captain's build with Tact or Prot and still hold at least some aggro.
Enforced Threat: Increased max # of targets from 5-8. When have you seen only 5 trash mobs? LoL. Definitely needed!
Frontline surge: Increased max # of targets from 3-5. Nice! You can prone an entire opposing domination team. Useful when you are playing the suicidal distraction role or dealing with an opposing team rush. Also good for IV GWF's to get more mobs on the ground to capitalize on "Trample the Fallen" with their AOE damage.
All other ability improvements are also useful there is just no need to explain. They work and they were needed. Thanks to the Dev's for the improvements.
DD's/PVE: In PVP GF's are still very viable and make great point controllers. In PVE DD's are timed events so it still puts speed as higher priority than aggro control. However its still nice if you are a guild that just wants to run a really easy/controlled run but once the guild becomes BIS expect to still be left behind.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Premades: First I can see this as an issue at first but with just a little work/time could be easily dealt with. First of all guilds that make premades including in house will increase their player ranking rather quickly. Will only be a short time until queing as a guild premade will make your combined team rank score only compatible with other guild premades. So the game will match you with premades first very quickly. In the beginning this could be a pain though as pers3phone has pointed out, but in time you will only que against pugs if and only if there are no premades available. However Panderus has posted that there is something coming to help. I am very curious to see what that could be.
Sorry, but you completely miss the point.
It is not about RANDOM Premade vs Premade.
It is about when 5 guys get together, talk to other 5 guys that got together, they queue at the same time, and try to find that EXACT team.
So if my guild want to play exactly that other guild that we AGREED, both sides, to play against each other, how do we manage to find them? As of now, we just queue until we find each other, and play. This might mean both team leave a few matches until RNG helps a bit.
With matchmaking, we would only be put against other teams at same rank. But what if we try to play a better team, just to learn, improve etc.? Matchmaking will prevent this.
However, even worse is the leaver penalty. We would be unable to requeue for 30 minutes if we leave. Organizing premades already takes sometimes even more than an hour.
So this would be a HUGE step back.
Also, I am not the first person to point this out. ayroux pointed this out REPEATEDLY as soon as the leaver penalty was announced, so it's not like this issue just popped out of nowhere, it was already discussed in quite a few posts.
Again, I truly hope this update is not pushed in this state.
Please consider what are the consequences of this action, dear developers.
To be honest, I think that pers3phone has a good point. There could be a work-around for this, such as a system where a group could simply "challenge" another group to a duel. This would allow premades the capability of getting together both in PUG and Invite Only premade groups. Perhaps you could even add the option to choose a map, or a time limit, for players who, perhaps, earn a particular item during their pvp excursions. something like /challenge @groupleader, perhaps?
Just a few suggestions. Can't wait to see where this patch leads us!
I can see your point pers3phone and you are right ayroux has mentioned this before. Equal premades would be fine but trying to play against a better ranked team or a specific team would be very difficult to que. Not to mention the ability to que as a 10 man team vs team would be nice. Right now the guilds making pvp teams have decreased drastically compared to a few months ago and this will actually make that number even lower. The Leaver penalty is absolutely necessary but I agree with pers3phone that this will make full guild premades vs matches rough if next to impossible to stage as it presently stands.
AH, specific premade vs premade! I didn't actually know about that STO feature, that's pretty neat. We are planning more long term support for PvP and have some already in the works. This feature is definitely something we could do relatively easily, though we are locking down our next module at the moment so it probably wont come out soon.
I think something else may be coming to at least partially scratch the premade vs premade itch you have... Keep an eye out for upcoming news posts about our next module.
currently, arranged premade vs premade matches occur regularly every day between guilds. hopefully the upcoming pvp update with matchmaking and leaver penalties won't completely kill that as it will push away many of the serious pvp players that still play neverwinter. these matches are currently very easy to arrange once the teams are formed up and ready to queue. the attention to pvp is certainly appreciated and welcome so long as it is going in a healthy direction...
COOL! I come back to Neverwinter forums today after a... short hibernation... and I awake to a preview patch thread! Looks like a good step and a lot of hard work by the Cryptic Dev Team!!!
Patience....patience.... rumor has it a whole foundry team (of probably one developer) is working on lots of things sometime between module 2 (past) and module 3 ("real soon now"). So, we'll know how serious they are in a few weeks or so.
Can we get 80%-100% into the fray uptime??? easy, elegant, impactful and perfect solution to all the problems of GF in endgame, nobody will never ever run without a GF anymore it doesnt affect PvP, doesnt make us better DPSers than DPS class, its a natural change!
As I said, they have this option in STO (their other game, same engine, lot of common tech):
in my opinion, it's irrational to expect all of these features to come together all at once especially if the features you're asking for weren't offered at product launch. also, just because the engine makes it possible, it doesn't mean that it will take a priority over other projects. STO is four years old (i think, i just got into STO a week or so ago) and has had a lot of time to develop into what it is today. i think neverwinter has all the potential to do the same. all we can do is respectfully ask and provide our constructive feedback.
I'm not sure if the bonus of battle fury the is being properly shared .
always when a gwf uses the power and I run the mouse over the icon for my damages or nothing changes, or changes briefly.
I see two possibilities:
A: how power 25% of bonus shares, it may have been programmed to only work 25% of the time.
B: sharing is random.
ps: phenomenon observed from the perspective of a Dc.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited March 2014
About GF shield meter:
I suggest reducing the amount of damage Tide of Iron does, making it animate faster, and making it an AoE that hits a very short wide arc in front of you. This would instantly make tanking viable and skill based in both PvE and PvP but allow fast dodge based characters to outmaneuver the GFs ability to regenerate guard. It might even help make Swordmaster a viable path by giving GF an alternative to Threatening Rush.
If I'm not mistaken the idea behind Tide of Iron was to give GFs an option to regenerate guard meter with an at will so that they weren't sitting ducks when their guard meter ran out. I don't think it does a very good job of that right now.
(... we would still need bosses worth tanking or dangerous enough to require tanking, though, for pve...)
0
pitirre34prMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I suggest reducing the amount of damage Tide of Iron does, making it animate faster, and making it an AoE that hits a very short wide arc in front of you. This would instantly make tanking viable and skill based in both PvE and PvP but allow fast dodge based characters to outmaneuver the GFs ability to regenerate guard. It might even help make Swordmaster a viable path by giving GF an alternative to Threatening Rush.
If I'm not mistaken the idea behind Tide of Iron was to give GFs an option to regenerate guard meter with an at will so that they weren't sitting ducks when their guard meter ran out. I don't think it does a very good job of that right now.
(... we would still need bosses worth tanking or dangerous enough to require tanking, though, for pve...)
You sir read my mind with that idea for tide of iron, now i do hope that the devs react to your idea (not that im really expecting them to reply here to that), it would be HUGE help for our guard meter regen, losing dmg...idc, im a tank not a dps with a shield and plate armor (pve only player here, dont mean pvp dont deserve love).
Seems like some great changes to GFs. I love the changes to particularly Lunging Strike and Enforced Threat as those are already great encounters and with the change to Iron Warrior, it might make it more viable to go for a more defensive route and still be able to hold aggro which didn't seem like a real possibility before. Overall looks great and I'm excited to try GF with the changes.
New PvP Effect: Healing Depression
In addition to the introduction of tenacity, an additional effect; healing depression, has been added to the game. If a player has been struck by another player within the last 10 seconds, the potency of incoming healing and temporary hit points will be reduced by 50%.
The combined effect of these two additions is to reduce the occurrence of exceptionally short and exceptionally long PvP encounters, resulting in combat with a more normal length where strategy and player skill play a larger role.
This doesn't result in normal length combat, you are just making healer's even more useless in matches where DPS can hit for 20k or more. If you wanted to remove healers from PvP you accomplished that. I already rarely encounter healers, now it will be even more rare. Especially since we already get decreased healing on ourselves, now this?
I still think Gf tab ability is the most glaring weakness in GF overall. Making it last longer just makes it a subpar ability that lasts longer. Quick comparison:
Gwf: up to FIFTY percent more dr, temp hp, increased atk speed
Cw : an EXTRA encounter power with additional abilities
Tr : INVISIBILITY and increased damage on all attacks
Dc : alternative at wills and increased and bonus powers on ALL encounter powers
Hr : completely changes functions of at wills and encounters giving AWESOME utility for many situations
Gf : plus 8 percent damage and some threat (that no gf actually needs, pulling aggro in pve can be done fine with mark the way it is now ie. threat rush and enforced threat. our tab needs extra abilities that give us damage, survivability or utility, not threat)
The primary class feature of Guardian Fighters is actually more powerful for gwf because of the plus fifteen percent dmg feat gwf have access to.
This strikes me as the weakest and least inspired class feature in the game.
THIS. This is exactly what needs to change with a guardian fighter. Now don't get me wrong, all of the planned changes are great, but at the core of our GF class remains an ability that weakens our playability as opposed to the other classes.
GF's need a modified version of what the CW has: a tab ability that allows us to slot additional encounter powers. HOWEVER, the powers available to be slotted should be restricted to the "tanky" encounter powers (Enforced Threat, Knight's Challenge, Knight's Valor, Into the Fray, Iron Warrior).
In this way our class would get a HUGE boost in our utility to the party as an actual Tank/Buffer without the unbalancing a change in DPS might make.
Comments
AH, specific premade vs premade! I didn't actually know about that STO feature, that's pretty neat. We are planning more long term support for PvP and have some already in the works. This feature is definitely something we could do relatively easily, though we are locking down our next module at the moment so it probably wont come out soon.
I think something else may be coming to at least partially scratch the premade vs premade itch you have... Keep an eye out for upcoming news posts about our next module.
Hmmm , I wonder if he could possibly be talking about a upcoming pvp tourney? can't think of anything else that could make players who want premade v premade happy
I'm not
One more thing: Steel Defense JUST got a fix, thanks for kicking us on that!
SWEET! Thank you!
Was just about to run off of Toad's comments stating that it still wasn't working as of yesterday.
Any word on Knight's Challenge or Knight's Valor?
Also, any plans on a fix for balancing the factions in GG, or getting rid of the faction system altogether and just matching 20v20? Having to pay hundreds of thousands of diamonds to switch factions or make a new guild altogether because Delz can't get into pvp queue and lusk lose overall every single time because they are outnumbered 40:1 or greater is really lame. There's only 3 pvp maps and 1 is completely borked.
Aww oh well , *puts thinking cap back on* although it is definitely good to hear you are thinking more about serious pvp , you guys have created a game with a really brilliant combat system and it is frustrating to see it going to waste from a player v player standpoint , this game has HUGE potential if developed the correct way and even though I'm by no means a expert pvper I have witnessed the pulling power that a really good pvp system can have as far as attracting a heck of a lot of new players to a game and a lot of new players benefits pveers and pvpers alike.
I kinda feel wizards are neglected. Would you guys mind fixing at least Storm Pillar? PWEASE
My videos
So basically...
For now, Premade vs Premade matches will be dead for an undetermined period of time?
Please reconsider this and offer a feature or "fix" on the launch of the next module, because otherwise, this will completely kill the high end PvP community, who will be unable to set up matches against each other. Yes I realize this sounds like doom&gloom, yet it is the truth.
If things go live as they are, we will be at the mercy of matchmaking, without any chance to set up premades as we do now, and because of the penalty system, will be impossible to leave matches without wasting 30 minutes.
Kindly consider a quick fix of sorts before launch.
GF improvements
Perma-Mark: I think all the improvements are nice actually. Mark actually increases your dps towards your marked target as a debuff by the way. So a perma mark is a bit more useful than just threat. A lot of people seem to forget this. I've tested it myself so I know the debuff is valid. Mark was pretty much useless all around before except for kiting or solo boss duty due to how fast it dropped. With Conqueror if you blocked you kept mark but your power went down. If you didn't block your power stayed up but you lost mark. Now at least with bosses you can now do both.
Iron Warrior: The 150% additional threat is actually quite nice. I have seen people saying they have enough threat but that is actually not true in endgame. Try running with full BIS, r10, x3 Leg Artifact, PV CW's and see how long you hold threat... You won't. Most the game your threat is fine but in endgame BIS you start losing fast. Diminishing returns are low for GF's so at that level we lose ground. Especially if you want to play anything other than a Conqueror. I have been testing all 3 specs on preview and Prot actually becomes useful with that ability. You can run a full debuff Knight Captain's build with Tact or Prot and still hold at least some aggro.
Enforced Threat: Increased max # of targets from 5-8. When have you seen only 5 trash mobs? LoL. Definitely needed!
Frontline surge: Increased max # of targets from 3-5. Nice! You can prone an entire opposing domination team. Useful when you are playing the suicidal distraction role or dealing with an opposing team rush. Also good for IV GWF's to get more mobs on the ground to capitalize on "Trample the Fallen" with their AOE damage.
All other ability improvements are also useful there is just no need to explain. They work and they were needed. Thanks to the Dev's for the improvements.
DD's/PVE: In PVP GF's are still very viable and make great point controllers. In PVE DD's are timed events so it still puts speed as higher priority than aggro control. However its still nice if you are a guild that just wants to run a really easy/controlled run but once the guild becomes BIS expect to still be left behind.
Sorry, but you completely miss the point.
It is not about RANDOM Premade vs Premade.
It is about when 5 guys get together, talk to other 5 guys that got together, they queue at the same time, and try to find that EXACT team.
So if my guild want to play exactly that other guild that we AGREED, both sides, to play against each other, how do we manage to find them? As of now, we just queue until we find each other, and play. This might mean both team leave a few matches until RNG helps a bit.
With matchmaking, we would only be put against other teams at same rank. But what if we try to play a better team, just to learn, improve etc.? Matchmaking will prevent this.
However, even worse is the leaver penalty. We would be unable to requeue for 30 minutes if we leave. Organizing premades already takes sometimes even more than an hour.
So this would be a HUGE step back.
Also, I am not the first person to point this out. ayroux pointed this out REPEATEDLY as soon as the leaver penalty was announced, so it's not like this issue just popped out of nowhere, it was already discussed in quite a few posts.
Again, I truly hope this update is not pushed in this state.
Please consider what are the consequences of this action, dear developers.
Thank you.
Just a few suggestions. Can't wait to see where this patch leads us!
currently, arranged premade vs premade matches occur regularly every day between guilds. hopefully the upcoming pvp update with matchmaking and leaver penalties won't completely kill that as it will push away many of the serious pvp players that still play neverwinter. these matches are currently very easy to arrange once the teams are formed up and ready to queue. the attention to pvp is certainly appreciated and welcome so long as it is going in a healthy direction...
Really great news! Thanks a lot!
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Patience....patience.... rumor has it a whole foundry team (of probably one developer) is working on lots of things sometime between module 2 (past) and module 3 ("real soon now"). So, we'll know how serious they are in a few weeks or so.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Everything Sword Master does, Iron Vanguard simply does better in all regards.
in my opinion, it's irrational to expect all of these features to come together all at once especially if the features you're asking for weren't offered at product launch. also, just because the engine makes it possible, it doesn't mean that it will take a priority over other projects. STO is four years old (i think, i just got into STO a week or so ago) and has had a lot of time to develop into what it is today. i think neverwinter has all the potential to do the same. all we can do is respectfully ask and provide our constructive feedback.
I'm not sure if the bonus of battle fury the is being properly shared .
always when a gwf uses the power and I run the mouse over the icon for my damages or nothing changes, or changes briefly.
I see two possibilities:
A: how power 25% of bonus shares, it may have been programmed to only work 25% of the time.
B: sharing is random.
ps: phenomenon observed from the perspective of a Dc.
I suggest reducing the amount of damage Tide of Iron does, making it animate faster, and making it an AoE that hits a very short wide arc in front of you. This would instantly make tanking viable and skill based in both PvE and PvP but allow fast dodge based characters to outmaneuver the GFs ability to regenerate guard. It might even help make Swordmaster a viable path by giving GF an alternative to Threatening Rush.
If I'm not mistaken the idea behind Tide of Iron was to give GFs an option to regenerate guard meter with an at will so that they weren't sitting ducks when their guard meter ran out. I don't think it does a very good job of that right now.
(... we would still need bosses worth tanking or dangerous enough to require tanking, though, for pve...)
You sir read my mind with that idea for tide of iron, now i do hope that the devs react to your idea (not that im really expecting them to reply here to that), it would be HUGE help for our guard meter regen, losing dmg...idc, im a tank not a dps with a shield and plate armor (pve only player here, dont mean pvp dont deserve love).
yeah sword master need buff it is very bad on gwf to also mof path at cw is under powerd or spell storm is to op to
This doesn't result in normal length combat, you are just making healer's even more useless in matches where DPS can hit for 20k or more. If you wanted to remove healers from PvP you accomplished that. I already rarely encounter healers, now it will be even more rare. Especially since we already get decreased healing on ourselves, now this?
THIS. This is exactly what needs to change with a guardian fighter. Now don't get me wrong, all of the planned changes are great, but at the core of our GF class remains an ability that weakens our playability as opposed to the other classes.
GF's need a modified version of what the CW has: a tab ability that allows us to slot additional encounter powers. HOWEVER, the powers available to be slotted should be restricted to the "tanky" encounter powers (Enforced Threat, Knight's Challenge, Knight's Valor, Into the Fray, Iron Warrior).
In this way our class would get a HUGE boost in our utility to the party as an actual Tank/Buffer without the unbalancing a change in DPS might make.
These kind of modifications are relatively balanced as well as giving a great boost to the seriously under powered tanking role of the GF.