Yeah, agreed. For non-set weapons, Thayan Zealot has a very nice stat combination. The ArP + Recovery combo is a rare sight to see for epic daggers. I got mine a week after Dread Ring came out and I'm not thinking of switching them out even for set weapons that offer the crit bonus. We have a lot of crit already and it has severe Diminishing Returns. If it were a flat amount like 2% - 3% crit, I guess it'd be worth using. But 450 crit can only change so little.
Where can I find the Thayan Zealot weapons specifically?
Where can I find the Thayan Zealot weapons specifically?
The Phantasmal Fortress instance in the Dread Ring campaign and the Dread Ring store, the main hand is a possible drop from the end chest in PF and the off-hand costs 50 Scrip + 20k AD (and a bit of gold). Both are BoP.
The Phantasmal Fortress instance in the Dread Ring campaign and the Dread Ring store, the main hand is a possible drop from the end chest in PF and the off-hand costs 50 Scrip + 20k AD (and a bit of gold). Both are BoP.
I've recently returned to my Level 56 TR Wood Elf, been neglecting him in favor of my Hunter Drow. Been following this guide for awhile now, but haven't quite run the rotation, and am plagued by bad habits, and the security blanket that is my Cleric Companion (the Green Tiefling one.) Although, she has a tendency to aggro every mob within a 30 foot radius, it seems. I made this character during beta, so my ability scores aren't exact, and I'm hoping I don't run into any issues.
Anyhow, I want to thank you, todesfaelle, and all who have shared their ideas on this build. Looking forward to joining the chat channel and meeting some of you, look for Rhodiren. Going to practice on some test dummies to see if I can keep stealth up. 57 now, and it's about time I get him to max level.
crystal892fMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 385Arc User
edited February 2014
Hey, I'm thinking about making a WK perma-stealth (PS) and am going to go Human for 3 extra feats. But I'm wondering if those are better spend in Disciple of Strength or Scoundrel's Training.
Purely from the tooltips +9% damage with at-wills (which are the main damage source as PS) is better than +6% damage overall, but maybe I'm missing something or there is something the tooltips don't show.
By the way: Because people here and there complain about PS, is there any info on a possible change for the PS possibility? I mean, I didn't read any, but I don't read the forums TOO much, so maybe I'm missing something. And I don't wanna spend time leveling another TR, when there is an upcoming change which makes PS harder / impossible.
The class cost $3500 so they were not free. Just something to ensure everyone could properly participate in the training.
Ill be at work tomorow so I am not sure what my schedule looks like yet. We are launching a big project so I probably will nit be available for more than a quick PvP or two around noon
I haven't caught you on lately. You affected by the recent server bug? Things have been going incredibly rubberband-y lately.
Where can I find the Thayan Zealot weapons specifically?
As our dear friends have already mentioned, they can be found in Dread Ring. It may take some time in Phantasmal Fortress. I think it took me some 15 runs. Kept buying lair keys just to get the dagger.
Thanks, Xyn and Wingedkagouti for clarifying further about the specifics!
I've recently returned to my Level 56 TR Wood Elf, been neglecting him in favor of my Hunter Drow. Been following this guide for awhile now, but haven't quite run the rotation, and am plagued by bad habits, and the security blanket that is my Cleric Companion (the Green Tiefling one.) Although, she has a tendency to aggro every mob within a 30 foot radius, it seems. I made this character during beta, so my ability scores aren't exact, and I'm hoping I don't run into any issues.
Anyhow, I want to thank you, todesfaelle, and all who have shared their ideas on this build. Looking forward to joining the chat channel and meeting some of you, look for Rhodiren. Going to practice on some test dummies to see if I can keep stealth up. 57 now, and it's about time I get him to max level.
You should be able to find an easier time nailing the rotation once you get to level 60 and get Battlefield Scavenger set. The 20% increased Stealth time will be noticeable. Anyway, join us in the Stealth TR chat! We may not have many members but we get together from time to time to do activities!
Hey, I'm thinking about making a WK perma-stealth (PS) and am going to go Human for 3 extra feats. But I'm wondering if those are better spend in Disciple of Strength or Scoundrel's Training.
Purely from the tooltips +9% damage with at-wills (which are the main damage source as PS) is better than +6% damage overall, but maybe I'm missing something or there is something the tooltips don't show.
By the way: Because people here and there complain about PS, is there any info on a possible change for the PS possibility? I mean, I didn't read any, but I don't read the forums TOO much, so maybe I'm missing something. And I don't wanna spend time leveling another TR, when there is an upcoming change which makes PS harder / impossible.
Hey, Crys, Glad to hear you're considering to make a WK PS! It'd be wonderful to be able to run dungeons with one. Can't imagine how insanely easy some challenging bosses would be if we got ranged support from a WK friend.
As for the 3 extra Heroic Feats, you'll find better results with Scoundrel Training, because we do not have much STR and thus will not benefit from the multiplicative bonus of Disciple of Strength. Scoundrel Training on the other hand is a flat 9% DPS increase for At-Wills which are our main source of damage (CoS + Dish Strike). This results to stronger ticks of Dish Strike and stronger stacks of CoS.
And as for incoming nerfs regarding our play style, we can never really say for sure. The devs do not announce their plans regarding class changes/balancing. But there have been numerous times that we have been given indirect nerfs for our play style. Some of which include reduction of CoS charges, -35% Reduction in Lurker's Assault's DPS Buff, and now Impact Shot is also getting nerfs for its burst capabilities. And some months back Tenebrous (which was Permastealth's main source of damage) has also been given a nerf. The real "permastealth" build (x3lade's build) died after which. Nowadays, what people call "permastealth" is not exactly permastealth. It has long stealth uptime, but unlike x3lade's, they do not maintain stealth indefinitely. We've been given so much nerfs that it's unlikely that we'll be getting more. But if by any chance we do get a nerf that makes it harder/impossible to perform such a playstyle, I'm pretty sure we can find other ways to become competitive. There are a lot of uses for high INT TR rolls. I have a couple of backup plans just in case things go bad for us. And the TR isn't the only class in the game.
This is also the reason why I do not like to attach myself with just one class. It's a game with more than 1 class, so let's make builds out of all of em I say.
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crystal892fMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 385Arc User
As for the 3 extra Heroic Feats, you'll find better results with Scoundrel Training, because we do not have much STR and thus will not benefit from the multiplicative bonus of Disciple of Strength. Scoundrel Training on the other hand is a flat 9% DPS increase for At-Wills which are our main source of damage (CoS + Dish Strike). This results to stronger ticks of Dish Strike and stronger stacks of CoS.
"multiplicative"? Are you sure? Because I read somewhere it's a flat 6% damage bonus. Independent of STR.
Nowadays, what people call "permastealth" is not exactly permastealth. It has long stealth uptime, but unlike x3lade's, they do not maintain stealth indefinitely.
They don't? I thought, it IS still possible. Even without ITC as "filler".
This is also the reason why I do not like to attach myself with just one class. It's a game with more than 1 class, so let's make builds out of all of em I say.
Well, not I'm not interested in all classes, but I started as CW and TR is my second class (acutally my third, but my DPS-DC became just an invocation bot - I always got flamed in PvP when I didn't heal (and DPS-DCs aren't that viable, anyways)). So yeah, I totally agree.
"multiplicative"? Are you sure? Because I read somewhere it's a flat 6% damage bonus. Independent of STR.
They don't? I thought, it IS still possible. Even without ITC as "filler".
Well, not I'm not interested in all classes, but I started as CW and TR is my second class (acutally my third, but my DPS-DC became just an invocation bot - I always got flamed in PvP when I didn't heal (and DPS-DCs aren't that viable, anyways)). So yeah, I totally agree.
Hey, man. Yep! I'm pretty sure I read that it's multiplicative. I saw it in one of the old guides back when I was new in the game. But I could also be wrong, since it's pretty old info and never really bothered parsing it myself. If someone has more info about this, it'd be greatly appreciated!
Though nonetheless, we rarely use attacks other than our at-wills since they are usually more than enough to dispatch our targets. If by any chance you are planning to incorporate DPS encounters to your PS rotation then I guess it would merit taking 3/3 DoS over 3/3 ST. But that means you'll be popping out of Stealth to deal damage that you could have done with your At-Wills under the protection of Stealth. If we're going to weigh the benefits and risks, I'd say sticking with 9% more At-Will damage nets more benefits and less risks. 6% increased damage would probably be good for Impact Shot if you're planning to use it for PVP.
And yeah, it actually is still possible to maintain permastealth, but it has significantly gimped DPS. The main source of DPS for the pre-Mod 1 permas were Tenebrous Enchants. Without it, they would not be hitting as hard. What people claim to be permastealths around nowadays are more like semi-PS, because they have ITC/SS/IS, taking IS in place of BnS which is imperative for a true PS rotation. They are cookie-cutter executioners mixed with stealth which is a scary efficient combination.
I'm sorry to hear about your DC. It's sad how people tend to be bigots towards what they consider as non-meta. I absolutely love GCTRL's DPS DC build idea as it is both revolutionary and equally efficient. Faced one in PVP and they just WRECK things with that particle beam thing. Very impressive.
The game can offer so much more than we currently have, and there are a lot of ways to make unique play styles efficient. Coincidentally, I'm also on the process of leveling an Oppressor CW that concentrates on Control rather than DPS. Level 56 right now and on its way to completion. The goal is 100% RSI on the Mastery Slot in order to maximize the utility capabilities of the CW. Like a utility knife where we can slot a certain encounter we want to spam that fits the situation. I've also got a Swordmaster GWF in the works as well, with the goal of being able to attain 100% Damage Immunity uptime. DC's the one class I haven't really gotten a good grasp on, but I'm hoping to be able to level one in the near future but not until I give my CW and GWF the basic gear they need to fulfill their play styles.
Finally caught you online.
I found it hilarious we both ended that one game
10-1-10
Crystal
In PVE i can permastealth and when running solo non Epic stuff like the dread ring dailies, i only need Gloaming Cut and Shadow Strike
In PvP, as you have now seen, i utilize stealth and dodge rolling for my style of play but am no where near perma stealth.
I got punked the other day against a real good premade squad when we were PUG.
Both their TRs targeted me constantly. I took that as a compliment, still finished 3rd in the game and top on our team but was 6-10-10
Felt like 1-500-0 though.
It was so cool to do some PvP with You yesterday :-) Although it was quite embarassing to see myself nearly at the botoom with someting like 2-8-15 when one of our TRs already had something like 12-0-20 :P
I hope we'll do TR group PvP runs in the future too. Grinding all that Glory for new PvP set :P
Sorry for the offtopic, it's quite stupid question, but when the PvP mechanics counts you a kill? In all the fights I tend to have loads of assists and quite small amount of kills. It happens that after the match I'm in top 3 of assists while being in bottom 3 of actual kills. I swear, that sometimes I'm sure I've killed someone, but the score is still at 0. I admit that very often I have a problem with targeting a dead opponent with "F", so I stay a few seconds to find a suitable spot/camera angle so I can finish someone. In the meanwhile other team member runs, presses "F" and I'm just credited for assist. Or in worst case opponents catch me standing over body of their buddy :P
Does bringing someone down who after that stands up cause of Soulforge does not count as a kill?
Anyway, I hate Soulforge in PvP. Yesterday after an exhausting fight I somehow managed to bring down the GWF just to see him resurrected by Soulforge, healed by Soulforge and immediate PvP artifact usage (and maybe the potion to), shielded by temp HP from artifact and unstoppable. So 2 sec after I landed strike which ought to be killing blow he is standing before me with nearly full HP bar in unstoppable mode. So, yeah...
Ratharel - stealthy backstabber from the Myth Drannor
It was so cool to do some PvP with You yesterday :-) Although it was quite embarassing to see myself nearly at the botoom with someting like 2-8-15 when one of our TRs already had something like 12-0-20 :P
I hope we'll do TR group PvP runs in the future too. Grinding all that Glory for new PvP set :P
Sorry for the offtopic, it's quite stupid question, but when the PvP mechanics counts you a kill? In all the fights I tend to have loads of assists and quite small amount of kills. It happens that after the match I'm in top 3 of assists while being in bottom 3 of actual kills. I swear, that sometimes I'm sure I've killed someone, but the score is still at 0. I admit that very often I have a problem with targeting a dead opponent with "F", so I stay a few seconds to find a suitable spot/camera angle so I can finish someone. In the meanwhile other team member runs, presses "F" and I'm just credited for assist. Or in worst case opponents catch me standing over body of their buddy :P
Does bringing someone down who after that stands up cause of Soulforge does not count as a kill?
Anyway, I hate Soulforge in PvP. Yesterday after an exhausting fight I somehow managed to bring down the GWF just to see him resurrected by Soulforge, healed by Soulforge and immediate PvP artifact usage (and maybe the potion to), shielded by temp HP from artifact and unstoppable. So 2 sec after I landed strike which ought to be killing blow he is standing before me with nearly full HP bar in unstoppable mode. So, yeah...
Hey, Rath! Was nice of you to join us in that match as well. There's always a lot of room for improvement even when one has been playing since beta so we're all in the same boat.
As for PVP mechanics regarding who gets the kill, the person who lands the killing blow gets it, regardless of how much damage you dished out, or who stepped on them by pressing "F." Soulforged kills don't seem to count as far as I can remember because they weren't sent to the graveyard.
And same here, I dislike Soulforged, but it's a necessity. I hate the smoke it makes. I unslotted my Lesser Soulforged in place of a Normal Elven Battle simply because it looks good. But I'll eventually be slotting it to my T2.5 PVP gear once I farm for it after the PVP patch hits. 30% extra Stealth, +7.5% more DPS while in Stealth, so much win.
H
And same here, I dislike Soulforged, but it's a necessity. I hate the smoke it makes. I unslotted my Lesser Soulforged in place of a Normal Elven Battle simply because it looks good. But I'll eventually be slotting it to my T2.5 PVP gear once I farm for it after the PVP patch hits. 30% extra Stealth, +7.5% more DPS while in Stealth, so much win.
I'm still considering Bloodtheft because of the ideas I have for modyfing yours build. Or making a "subclass" of it - self-suffcient boss/elite slayer.
My theorycraft:
- Cuurently I have only 11.7K GS and I'm already sitting at >48% crit for PvE, even with out have all boons, no +450 crit rating bonus from weapon set, better gear/enchantments/runestones. With all the upgrades my crit rating would hit diminishing returns. So lets assume 48% is enough for me, I gain some room for changes in feats.
- With T2.5 PVP armour set I want to minimize the use of Gloming Cut in favour for Duelist Furry.
- I plan to drop some ranks in critical framework and put them into deadly monumentum (get 1-2% less crits but up to 15% harder ones)
- Duelist Furry makes loads of attack -> Dazzling Blades may proc more often -> chance for shorter CDs for stealth refils
- With higher ranked +recovery enchantments/runestone and new PvP set I suspect that it may be enough to keep perma-stealth with using gloaming cut as a backup. Maybe with top gear it will be possible to drop the points? In fact i'm already playing like this in boss fights. Boss one-shotting switch dummy gives enormous amount of Action points -> more time in Lurker's Asault -> more time for SS recovery -> can use DF more often. If I can stop using gloaming Cut, I'll drop points from Sneaky Stabber and distribute them into deadly monumentum/underhanded tactics. Still, I can try to organize rotation in a way that I can do the killing blow with Gloaming Cut whenever possible and get some stealth refil.
- I try to have high Life steal for my toon, so if things go south -> Bloodtheft comes in and with duelist furry it has a lot of chances to proc (i really prefer to stay alive over being resurrected).
PROS are obvious:
+ even MOAR damage from stealth
CONS:
- Even higher dependency on specific gear than in yours original build, large amounts of grind/AD required to get all to perfection
- In case of using duelist furry new +stealth gear does not give bigger margin for mistakes when compared to scavenger + gloaming cut
- Highly depends on one skill - Duelist Furry
- Rotation must be performed near to perfection
- To get most of this build your toon must be a human (+9% damage for DF from scounderl training is huge thing for this build)
- Very specific role, situational. Good for high HP targets, elites, bosses. Not so good for loads of small trash mobs/highly mobile bosses.
Ratharel - stealthy backstabber from the Myth Drannor
I like your initiative in personalizing the build towards one that better suits your play style. You keep it up. If you like Bloodtheft, I guess that'd be possible if you could make it work. I'm imagining this sort of TR to be a Life Steal-heavy build. Maybe Lifedrinker enchant for the Weapon Enchant as well. This would synergize very well with Endless Consumption. DF would allow you to heal a lot of damage as long as you are hurt. Keep up theorycrafting. I personally like hearing the ideas from other people as to how they'll make their Stealth Rogues better for their styles.
In pve i think P vorpal and a soulforge are a necessity for the really hard Epic dungeons like MC and VT
It seems when I SF in PvP I'm not too far from dying.
If I am being double teamed by a GF and GWF it doesnt amount to much.
After the new PvP changes come out. I am real curious about trying a Perfect Barkskin instead of Soulforge.
I think for us squishier types that with the new PvP armor and dmg reduction might have a greater effect
And slot a Bilethorn instead of Vorpal for less burst but more steady dmg
P. Vorp definitely has a solid spot for all builds concentrating on burst DPS with high crit. As for SF, IDK. We should rarely die once we reach a certain level of experience with the build. If by any chance there was any reason to wipe in the party, we'd be the last one today. More often than not we are forced to die just so the party can join again.
Barkskin is definitely a good investment for PVP as a stealth rogue. Healing Depression will take half of the heals we get from SF, but being able to rise from the dead is still a good utility to have.
I'm trying something different for PVP lately, using Frost instead of Bilethorn. But I think Plaguefire will be the most solid means to increase DPS in PVP once the Tenacity Patch hits. With all the Damage Reduction around, I just can't imagine people not taking it. Though nothing beats Bilethorn when it comes to synergy with Duelist's Flurry.
I like your initiative in personalizing the build towards one that better suits your play style. You keep it up. If you like Bloodtheft, I guess that'd be possible if you could make it work. I'm imagining this sort of TR to be a Life Steal-heavy build. Maybe Lifedrinker enchant for the Weapon Enchant as well. This would synergize very well with Endless Consumption. DF would allow you to heal a lot of damage as long as you are hurt. Keep up theorycrafting. I personally like hearing the ideas from other people as to how they'll make their Stealth Rogues better for their styles.
Yes, Life Steal is mine main defense stat. Defense/Deflect - I take whatever comes as a bonus, but do not care much about them. In the PvE if the perma-stealth TR is getting hit by something else then AoE means he is a bad one ;-) And dodgeing/getting back in stealth -> rebuild HP with life steal works OK. In PvP, if I'm targeted by GWF/knocked down by GF it really doesn't matter if I mitigate that 5% more damages. But I wouldn't go as far as slotting lifedrinker.
In every cRPG I love theorycrafting builds, hate the fact that respec is so costly in NWO. Starting with my very own build from scratch would cost millions of AD. From the popular TR builds I have read about yours was the most close to my play style, so I started with it :-) Will post in the future how my intended modyfication works in practice.
BTW. Do you guys now some combat log parser/analysis tool for NWO? When I played Lords of the Rings Online it had awesome tool written for the purpose, one could really test/optimze build to the max with it.
Ratharel - stealthy backstabber from the Myth Drannor
Awesome, awesome. I really like seeing people opting to walk a unique path. Xyntrynz1a did it, made a Scoundrel version and he rocks in both PVP and PVE, and Loki made a Saboteur version. Not sure where it is right now though, but he's a killer in Gauntlgrym thanks to the kill bonus of Ruthless Efficiency. It's this sort of creativity and initiative that gives birth to improved builds. So if by any chance you find what you want to do for your Stealth Rogue, let us know of your ideas. Maybe some of our other fellow rogues can provide some insights regarding them.
I love to theorycraft as well. Most of my experiences came from Diablo 2: LoD which isn't that much of an MMO but it has online gameplay with other players. Creating builds, in my opinion, is an art form in MMO's. Plotting out numbers to support the synergies between skills is what gives me satisfaction in MMO's. Until the devs decide to nerf them to the ground because of the tears. Move on to the next build, then.
And for parsing, you may wish to refer to this video by supremejeremiah. It also has a link to the Neverwinter Plugin required to parse for the game. Enjoy!
Great PvP games today.
We really held our own. If that one person did not quit, we could have won the 4v5 game. The one with the 2 GWF's was a tough fight but they just didn't play smart. If they had divided up, that would have been better for them maintaining points.
Our Pirate King run started off a little odd. Having 2 HR's with 3 Rogues did not work too well. I also was not specked for enough stealth and had to change in the middle of the Surgeon Fight.
After that though, we got our groove and it was easy
Demon,
That foundry was crazy fun. I told my guild mate CW to do it before I logged out. All I heard was
HOLY F>>>>>>>K!
hahahahahaha
I can't find the second half of your Valindra Fight, can you post a link?
OMG. You guys played Demonmonger's Foundry? ) Was pretty crazy right? I survived it as my GF, but I'm not sure if any other of my chars could have done it.
We haven't played any games recently. Haven't caught much of you guys on except for Nano and Oriana, so we've been playing games lately. Guess with our community slowly doing matches together, we can probably do a 5 vs. 5 TR vs TR premade together. XD That would be so epic!
stratataisenMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Sorry to bother you, but I have a few questions about the Whisperknife build.
Since my toon is a Drow I had to switch a few things up (and I've grown very attached to her....and she has all my AD..XD ) with the Ablilities but I'm not sure if that will kill the build for me or not.
Also what artifacts do you use? You may have stated this before and I just missed it, so sorry if this is a repeat question.
What sort of switches did you do, Strata? As for Artifacts, there aren't much choices to be made here. For our current existing artifacts, there's Blood Crystal Raven Skull, Waters of Elah'zad, and Lantern of Revelation.
Oh yeah, you're the person in the TR chat who asked me the same question right? Anyway, it's no prob. I haven't specifically done this portion of the guide yet so my apologies if it's taking this long so far.
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stratataisenMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What sort of switches did you do, Strata? As for Artifacts, there aren't much choices to be made here. For our current existing artifacts, there's Blood Crystal Raven Skull, Waters of Elah'zad, and Lantern of Revelation.
Oh yeah, you're the person in the TR chat who asked me the same question right? Anyway, it's no prob. I haven't specifically done this portion of the guide yet so my apologies if it's taking this long so far.
I had originally rolled: STR: 15, DEX: 19, CON: 11, INT: 12, WIS: 10, CHA: 18; so I put all the ability points in Int and Str since Dex was above what you said.
It's all moot now anyways, I rolled her back to Master Infiltrator and I'm having a blast with your spec so far (still leveling, but almost to 60). If I really want that Whisperknife in the future I may break down and buy an extra character slot then roll a Moon elf one or something. XD
I don't think I've spent as much time in any other Neverwinter thread. Just want to thank you and everyone else who has contributed here, really appreciate it!
In pve i think P vorpal and a soulforge are a necessity for the really hard Epic dungeons like MC and VT
It seems when I SF in PvP I'm not too far from dying.
If I am being double teamed by a GF and GWF it doesnt amount to much.
After the new PvP changes come out. I am real curious about trying a Perfect Barkskin instead of Soulforge.
I think for us squishier types that with the new PvP armor and dmg reduction might have a greater effect
And slot a Bilethorn instead of Vorpal for less burst but more steady dmg
Because I refuse to fall into the AD/money trap that is the new PvP patch, I am sticking with what I have.
I dont have millions of AD to invest in a new Perfect enchant at the auction house
And
Need to rearrange enchants or build up new enchants to compensate for the scores I will loe with the new PvP gear since the skulker set did not get tenacity
So I will work towards what I need.
PvP is still seriously bugged in a multitude of ways.
The only thing I can guarantee is that I wont spend any real money to fix bad coding
I sort of forgot what you are using tho, Xyn. I remember it's a Vorpal. Nonetheless, Vorpal is always good to have. It's the only enchant that can make burst builds possible for PVP, something that was heavily gimped with this lately patch. Wish I could have a perfect but I'm settling for a normal.
Comments
Where can I find the Thayan Zealot weapons specifically?
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
Thank you for the specifics!
Anyhow, I want to thank you, todesfaelle, and all who have shared their ideas on this build. Looking forward to joining the chat channel and meeting some of you, look for Rhodiren. Going to practice on some test dummies to see if I can keep stealth up. 57 now, and it's about time I get him to max level.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Purely from the tooltips +9% damage with at-wills (which are the main damage source as PS) is better than +6% damage overall, but maybe I'm missing something or there is something the tooltips don't show.
By the way: Because people here and there complain about PS, is there any info on a possible change for the PS possibility? I mean, I didn't read any, but I don't read the forums TOO much, so maybe I'm missing something. And I don't wanna spend time leveling another TR, when there is an upcoming change which makes PS harder / impossible.
I haven't caught you on lately. You affected by the recent server bug? Things have been going incredibly rubberband-y lately.
As our dear friends have already mentioned, they can be found in Dread Ring. It may take some time in Phantasmal Fortress. I think it took me some 15 runs. Kept buying lair keys just to get the dagger.
Thanks, Xyn and Wingedkagouti for clarifying further about the specifics!
You should be able to find an easier time nailing the rotation once you get to level 60 and get Battlefield Scavenger set. The 20% increased Stealth time will be noticeable. Anyway, join us in the Stealth TR chat! We may not have many members but we get together from time to time to do activities!
Hey, Crys, Glad to hear you're considering to make a WK PS! It'd be wonderful to be able to run dungeons with one. Can't imagine how insanely easy some challenging bosses would be if we got ranged support from a WK friend.
As for the 3 extra Heroic Feats, you'll find better results with Scoundrel Training, because we do not have much STR and thus will not benefit from the multiplicative bonus of Disciple of Strength. Scoundrel Training on the other hand is a flat 9% DPS increase for At-Wills which are our main source of damage (CoS + Dish Strike). This results to stronger ticks of Dish Strike and stronger stacks of CoS.
And as for incoming nerfs regarding our play style, we can never really say for sure. The devs do not announce their plans regarding class changes/balancing. But there have been numerous times that we have been given indirect nerfs for our play style. Some of which include reduction of CoS charges, -35% Reduction in Lurker's Assault's DPS Buff, and now Impact Shot is also getting nerfs for its burst capabilities. And some months back Tenebrous (which was Permastealth's main source of damage) has also been given a nerf. The real "permastealth" build (x3lade's build) died after which. Nowadays, what people call "permastealth" is not exactly permastealth. It has long stealth uptime, but unlike x3lade's, they do not maintain stealth indefinitely. We've been given so much nerfs that it's unlikely that we'll be getting more. But if by any chance we do get a nerf that makes it harder/impossible to perform such a playstyle, I'm pretty sure we can find other ways to become competitive. There are a lot of uses for high INT TR rolls. I have a couple of backup plans just in case things go bad for us. And the TR isn't the only class in the game.
This is also the reason why I do not like to attach myself with just one class. It's a game with more than 1 class, so let's make builds out of all of em I say.
They don't? I thought, it IS still possible. Even without ITC as "filler".
Well, not I'm not interested in all classes, but I started as CW and TR is my second class (acutally my third, but my DPS-DC became just an invocation bot - I always got flamed in PvP when I didn't heal (and DPS-DCs aren't that viable, anyways)). So yeah, I totally agree.
Hey, man. Yep! I'm pretty sure I read that it's multiplicative. I saw it in one of the old guides back when I was new in the game. But I could also be wrong, since it's pretty old info and never really bothered parsing it myself. If someone has more info about this, it'd be greatly appreciated!
Though nonetheless, we rarely use attacks other than our at-wills since they are usually more than enough to dispatch our targets. If by any chance you are planning to incorporate DPS encounters to your PS rotation then I guess it would merit taking 3/3 DoS over 3/3 ST. But that means you'll be popping out of Stealth to deal damage that you could have done with your At-Wills under the protection of Stealth. If we're going to weigh the benefits and risks, I'd say sticking with 9% more At-Will damage nets more benefits and less risks. 6% increased damage would probably be good for Impact Shot if you're planning to use it for PVP.
And yeah, it actually is still possible to maintain permastealth, but it has significantly gimped DPS. The main source of DPS for the pre-Mod 1 permas were Tenebrous Enchants. Without it, they would not be hitting as hard. What people claim to be permastealths around nowadays are more like semi-PS, because they have ITC/SS/IS, taking IS in place of BnS which is imperative for a true PS rotation. They are cookie-cutter executioners mixed with stealth which is a scary efficient combination.
I'm sorry to hear about your DC. It's sad how people tend to be bigots towards what they consider as non-meta. I absolutely love GCTRL's DPS DC build idea as it is both revolutionary and equally efficient. Faced one in PVP and they just WRECK things with that particle beam thing.
The game can offer so much more than we currently have, and there are a lot of ways to make unique play styles efficient. Coincidentally, I'm also on the process of leveling an Oppressor CW that concentrates on Control rather than DPS. Level 56 right now and on its way to completion. The goal is 100% RSI on the Mastery Slot in order to maximize the utility capabilities of the CW. Like a utility knife where we can slot a certain encounter we want to spam that fits the situation. I've also got a Swordmaster GWF in the works as well, with the goal of being able to attain 100% Damage Immunity uptime. DC's the one class I haven't really gotten a good grasp on, but I'm hoping to be able to level one in the near future but not until I give my CW and GWF the basic gear they need to fulfill their play styles.
I found it hilarious we both ended that one game
10-1-10
Crystal
In PVE i can permastealth and when running solo non Epic stuff like the dread ring dailies, i only need Gloaming Cut and Shadow Strike
In PvP, as you have now seen, i utilize stealth and dodge rolling for my style of play but am no where near perma stealth.
I got punked the other day against a real good premade squad when we were PUG.
Both their TRs targeted me constantly. I took that as a compliment, still finished 3rd in the game and top on our team but was 6-10-10
Felt like 1-500-0 though.
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
I hope we'll do TR group PvP runs in the future too. Grinding all that Glory for new PvP set :P
Sorry for the offtopic, it's quite stupid question, but when the PvP mechanics counts you a kill? In all the fights I tend to have loads of assists and quite small amount of kills. It happens that after the match I'm in top 3 of assists while being in bottom 3 of actual kills. I swear, that sometimes I'm sure I've killed someone, but the score is still at 0. I admit that very often I have a problem with targeting a dead opponent with "F", so I stay a few seconds to find a suitable spot/camera angle so I can finish someone. In the meanwhile other team member runs, presses "F" and I'm just credited for assist. Or in worst case opponents catch me standing over body of their buddy :P
Does bringing someone down who after that stands up cause of Soulforge does not count as a kill?
Anyway, I hate Soulforge in PvP. Yesterday after an exhausting fight I somehow managed to bring down the GWF just to see him resurrected by Soulforge, healed by Soulforge and immediate PvP artifact usage (and maybe the potion to), shielded by temp HP from artifact and unstoppable. So 2 sec after I landed strike which ought to be killing blow he is standing before me with nearly full HP bar in unstoppable mode. So, yeah...
Hey, Rath! Was nice of you to join us in that match as well. There's always a lot of room for improvement even when one has been playing since beta so we're all in the same boat.
As for PVP mechanics regarding who gets the kill, the person who lands the killing blow gets it, regardless of how much damage you dished out, or who stepped on them by pressing "F." Soulforged kills don't seem to count as far as I can remember because they weren't sent to the graveyard.
And same here, I dislike Soulforged, but it's a necessity. I hate the smoke it makes. I unslotted my Lesser Soulforged in place of a Normal Elven Battle simply because it looks good. But I'll eventually be slotting it to my T2.5 PVP gear once I farm for it after the PVP patch hits. 30% extra Stealth, +7.5% more DPS while in Stealth, so much win.
I'm still considering Bloodtheft because of the ideas I have for modyfing yours build. Or making a "subclass" of it - self-suffcient boss/elite slayer.
My theorycraft:
- Cuurently I have only 11.7K GS and I'm already sitting at >48% crit for PvE, even with out have all boons, no +450 crit rating bonus from weapon set, better gear/enchantments/runestones. With all the upgrades my crit rating would hit diminishing returns. So lets assume 48% is enough for me, I gain some room for changes in feats.
- With T2.5 PVP armour set I want to minimize the use of Gloming Cut in favour for Duelist Furry.
- I plan to drop some ranks in critical framework and put them into deadly monumentum (get 1-2% less crits but up to 15% harder ones)
- Duelist Furry makes loads of attack -> Dazzling Blades may proc more often -> chance for shorter CDs for stealth refils
- With higher ranked +recovery enchantments/runestone and new PvP set I suspect that it may be enough to keep perma-stealth with using gloaming cut as a backup. Maybe with top gear it will be possible to drop the points? In fact i'm already playing like this in boss fights. Boss one-shotting switch dummy gives enormous amount of Action points -> more time in Lurker's Asault -> more time for SS recovery -> can use DF more often. If I can stop using gloaming Cut, I'll drop points from Sneaky Stabber and distribute them into deadly monumentum/underhanded tactics. Still, I can try to organize rotation in a way that I can do the killing blow with Gloaming Cut whenever possible and get some stealth refil.
- I try to have high Life steal for my toon, so if things go south -> Bloodtheft comes in and with duelist furry it has a lot of chances to proc (i really prefer to stay alive over being resurrected).
PROS are obvious:
+ even MOAR damage from stealth
CONS:
- Even higher dependency on specific gear than in yours original build, large amounts of grind/AD required to get all to perfection
- In case of using duelist furry new +stealth gear does not give bigger margin for mistakes when compared to scavenger + gloaming cut
- Highly depends on one skill - Duelist Furry
- Rotation must be performed near to perfection
- To get most of this build your toon must be a human (+9% damage for DF from scounderl training is huge thing for this build)
- Very specific role, situational. Good for high HP targets, elites, bosses. Not so good for loads of small trash mobs/highly mobile bosses.
It seems when I SF in PvP I'm not too far from dying.
If I am being double teamed by a GF and GWF it doesnt amount to much.
After the new PvP changes come out. I am real curious about trying a Perfect Barkskin instead of Soulforge.
I think for us squishier types that with the new PvP armor and dmg reduction might have a greater effect
And slot a Bilethorn instead of Vorpal for less burst but more steady dmg
Im just thinking out loud here
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
Barkskin is definitely a good investment for PVP as a stealth rogue. Healing Depression will take half of the heals we get from SF, but being able to rise from the dead is still a good utility to have.
I'm trying something different for PVP lately, using Frost instead of Bilethorn. But I think Plaguefire will be the most solid means to increase DPS in PVP once the Tenacity Patch hits. With all the Damage Reduction around, I just can't imagine people not taking it. Though nothing beats Bilethorn when it comes to synergy with Duelist's Flurry.
In every cRPG I love theorycrafting builds, hate the fact that respec is so costly in NWO. Starting with my very own build from scratch would cost millions of AD. From the popular TR builds I have read about yours was the most close to my play style, so I started with it :-) Will post in the future how my intended modyfication works in practice.
BTW. Do you guys now some combat log parser/analysis tool for NWO? When I played Lords of the Rings Online it had awesome tool written for the purpose, one could really test/optimze build to the max with it.
I love to theorycraft as well. Most of my experiences came from Diablo 2: LoD which isn't that much of an MMO but it has online gameplay with other players. Creating builds, in my opinion, is an art form in MMO's. Plotting out numbers to support the synergies between skills is what gives me satisfaction in MMO's. Until the devs decide to nerf them to the ground because of the tears.
And for parsing, you may wish to refer to this video by supremejeremiah. It also has a link to the Neverwinter Plugin required to parse for the game. Enjoy!
We really held our own. If that one person did not quit, we could have won the 4v5 game. The one with the 2 GWF's was a tough fight but they just didn't play smart. If they had divided up, that would have been better for them maintaining points.
Our Pirate King run started off a little odd. Having 2 HR's with 3 Rogues did not work too well. I also was not specked for enough stealth and had to change in the middle of the Surgeon Fight.
After that though, we got our groove and it was easy
Demon,
That foundry was crazy fun. I told my guild mate CW to do it before I logged out. All I heard was
HOLY F>>>>>>>K!
hahahahahaha
I can't find the second half of your Valindra Fight, can you post a link?
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
We haven't played any games recently. Haven't caught much of you guys on except for Nano and Oriana, so we've been playing games lately. Guess with our community slowly doing matches together, we can probably do a 5 vs. 5 TR vs TR premade together. XD That would be so epic!
I have to try Limbo
Today I lived in PvP helping a guild mate get enough glory to buy his BloodCrystal
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Since my toon is a Drow I had to switch a few things up (and I've grown very attached to her....and she has all my AD..XD ) with the Ablilities but I'm not sure if that will kill the build for me or not.
Also what artifacts do you use? You may have stated this before and I just missed it, so sorry if this is a repeat question.
Oh yeah, you're the person in the TR chat who asked me the same question right? Anyway, it's no prob. I haven't specifically done this portion of the guide yet so my apologies if it's taking this long so far.
I had originally rolled: STR: 15, DEX: 19, CON: 11, INT: 12, WIS: 10, CHA: 18; so I put all the ability points in Int and Str since Dex was above what you said.
It's all moot now anyways, I rolled her back to Master Infiltrator and I'm having a blast with your spec so far (still leveling, but almost to 60). If I really want that Whisperknife in the future I may break down and buy an extra character slot then roll a Moon elf one or something. XD
But thanks for answering anyways.
I don't think I've spent as much time in any other Neverwinter thread. Just want to thank you and everyone else who has contributed here, really appreciate it!
Rock on rogues!
So what did you wind up going with for PVP?
I dont have millions of AD to invest in a new Perfect enchant at the auction house
And
Need to rearrange enchants or build up new enchants to compensate for the scores I will loe with the new PvP gear since the skulker set did not get tenacity
So I will work towards what I need.
PvP is still seriously bugged in a multitude of ways.
The only thing I can guarantee is that I wont spend any real money to fix bad coding
Leaving dead question marks everywhere