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Change to the Loot rolling system
dortialthemage
Member Posts: 23 Arc User
This might have been posted before, but I was not having much luck finding anything i could comment on, so I am starting a new thread.
Currently the loot rule system allows for items to be set for need over greed, to allow for players to roll Need on items their class can use. This is a good system that allows for players to better their gear. The big problem with this system however, is that once players have obtained the items they need from dungeons, they no longer want to run "need" runs, they only want to run "greed" runs, which means all players are supposed to roll "greed" on every epic, regardless if its an item they need for their character.
There should be an option set up by the leader, so they can set all items to greed, to only allow players to roll "greed" regardless if its a class specific item or not.
Today, I ran a dungeon with a pug group, during DD, and there was no mention of the loot rules by anyone, not the leader or any other party member. The first couple of boss loots that dropped, only dropped items that were not usable by anyone in the party, and everyone rolled greed. At the end, when the boss died, my T2 helm dropped, and I rolled need on it. The leader of the party decided to kick me from the group, so i didn't even get a chance to loot the chest.
If the loot system was set up to allow the party leader to change the loot rules, it would make it a lot easier on new players who are still trying to gear their characters. Sure, I would have had to roll "greed" just like everyone else, on a chance to get my class helm, but at least I would have had a chance to loot the chest.
Currently the loot rule system allows for items to be set for need over greed, to allow for players to roll Need on items their class can use. This is a good system that allows for players to better their gear. The big problem with this system however, is that once players have obtained the items they need from dungeons, they no longer want to run "need" runs, they only want to run "greed" runs, which means all players are supposed to roll "greed" on every epic, regardless if its an item they need for their character.
There should be an option set up by the leader, so they can set all items to greed, to only allow players to roll "greed" regardless if its a class specific item or not.
Today, I ran a dungeon with a pug group, during DD, and there was no mention of the loot rules by anyone, not the leader or any other party member. The first couple of boss loots that dropped, only dropped items that were not usable by anyone in the party, and everyone rolled greed. At the end, when the boss died, my T2 helm dropped, and I rolled need on it. The leader of the party decided to kick me from the group, so i didn't even get a chance to loot the chest.
If the loot system was set up to allow the party leader to change the loot rules, it would make it a lot easier on new players who are still trying to gear their characters. Sure, I would have had to roll "greed" just like everyone else, on a chance to get my class helm, but at least I would have had a chance to loot the chest.
Post edited by dortialthemage on
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If you are looking for a specific drop in a dungeon run I suggest that you state what you are after and that you want to roll need on something before you get started in the dungeon. Personally, I have no problem with people that want to roll need on a class item that drops if it is an upgrade that they plan on *using* (not selling).
One more thing: Join the "NW_legit_community" channel. The people there are typically much more reasonable, even tempered and skilled that the majority of players you run into using the random queue system.
I would report him. Most likely nothing will get done, but you never know.
In any case if it wasn't previously agreed on to be a greed run then the leader was griefing.
You cannot do this anywhere that has loot people actually care about. Dungeon loot rules are fixed at need/greed/pass. As a party leader, try it sometime.
Round robin simply gives everyone a random selection of loot. I guess in practice that's a bit as though everyone had pre-emptively rolled greed on absolutely everything that drops. But actual drops are effectively a secret, because nobody sees what anyone else picked up.
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As hard as it may be, you should try to just move on and forget this. Sadly there have been people and even guilds doing this regularly since the game was in 'Open Beta' and with no obvious consequences for those doing this, I can't imagine things will change.
Trying to join a guild or channel where bad behaviour has consequences is probably the best way to avoid this situation in future.
i'm not sure how you know "nothing" happens when someone is reported. if your expectations are that this is a bannable offense and that doesn't happen because you see that person a week later... if you don't report players for such actions, a number of things can happen. maybe the most important notable thing is that PWE would not be able to see this feedback on a wider scale from players that don't or rarely visit the forums. and the second thing is if a user is constantly reported, there is clearly a repeat offender clause in the terms of service. of course, they will investigate every report submitted and it is at their sole discretion what they do and how they handle those reports.
but to discourage others from submitting reports because you don't think anything comes of them... you'll never know because it's against their privacy policy to tell you. plain and simple.
One of the reasons the kick system was modified was due to individuals kicking people after a fight or for needing on something. Yet, I have knowledge of 3 example individuals who were temp banned by PWE for MULTIPLE offenses of this action and were never perma-banned. So saying repeat offender clause is enforced by PWE is viewed as rather ridiculous by many in-game players that I have chatted with in guild or in the legit channel.
As one pointed out: "Multiple", by definition, is "consisting of, including, or involving more than one". PWE must have a different definition of "multiple" than most people do as the actions do not reflect the intention.
If you read my post then the key words are "no obvious consequences." Seeing that neither I nor anyone that I know of in-game know of a single person being banned for this type of actions, and people have been calling out GUILDS (frequently repeatedly) doing this in /Zone ever since the start of Open Beta, then it seems hard to believe that anything is being done.
I am curious if you have any better information than us, as Cryptic's privacy policy means that there is no official information, so people can only go by their own game experience and that of those they know.
How does everyone choosing greed differ from everyone choosing need? (If it does?)
Because if it doesn't, shouldn't it just be a 'need run?' Because when people agree to greed, sometimes people accidentally choose need, and then people tend to get bent out of shape. (I'm not naive, I'm sure some accidents aren't accidents, but I have 'needed' on garbage by fat finger, so I know it does happen..)
If someone accidentally chose greed, it's no big deal to 4/5's of the party.. haha
My mates tend to need all enchants and crafting materials. And greed or pass everything else. (With exceptions of course, if player X came in to get a specific item, we know he or she is going to need, and that's perfect.) But I always greed on the crafting items, because I will probably never use them.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
Actually, PUGs = automatic Need.
I won't ever trust a PUG group to always roll Greed, unless this is somehow enforced by the system.
In my experience of PUGS, which is only slightly better than yours, I see the following "unwritten rules of PUGG'ing":
1) Need on Enchants/Shards, Need on BoP for VT/MC is acceptable, Greed on all other purples
2) Greed on blues and if you need, who cares, but if you consistently do it people may complain
3) All PUGS are assumed Greed, but go unsaid until someone needs on something.
4) If someone needs on an item they were intended to greed on one of two things happens:
4A) They are immediately voted for kick
4B) They are told they cannot roll on anymore purples and must pass or be kicked (seen this, but not nearly as common as A)
if I'm a TR and there's a purple equipment I need for my char, and I'm the only TR in the group, why am I expected to roll greed? the others don't need it, I do.
Obviously I wouldn't do without agreeing on it first, but still, I don't see why it's an "unwritten rule" to not roll need on something you actually need.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
Simply, because the item is not bound and you may sell it. There is no assured way to check what you actually need and what you press just to sell. In example a boss will drop high viziers armor a fully geared cw can "need" it and later sell it for around 700k.
Swash tr armor will sell for 400k, you may choose to sell it and run DD again (and again) to get a bound one from chest which you cannot sell and only salvage .
This is not fair for the rest of the team as i'm sure all can use a spare 700k ads.
There was a solution suggested that a need pickup will be bound, hopefully it will be implemented.
To the op, perhaps from the point of view of the party you are the one who griefed them, as you were running greed run (you were greeding too) and finally when something expansive dropped you needed that and denied them without stating so at the beginning and asking for it. -- again wasn't there, just a point of view, and i can agree that if no one stated the greed rules it's problematic (but there are the usual runs..).
In other MMO's I've played, if someone can equip something and needs it, he rolls need, if you can't equip it, or can equip it but are not interested you roll greed. Simple as that.
Next time maybe the boss will drop something YOU can equip, and then you can decide if you need it or just want to sell it and choose greed.
of course i don't have specific information and even if i did, i wouldn't be able to discuss it as that would be a violation of the privacy policy.
personally, i think being able to force greed runs as a loot option would be quite awesome. it would eliminate some of the problems we see complaints about.
vote kicking is another issue altogether. the option should be disabled after a party enters the final boss. this also would eliminate a number of complaints. so... reports and constructive feedback is the key.
But this is not the case in general lfg.. and as such "unwritten rules" were established.
And it is not "might think you sell", alot of people run to sell not to equip and thats why the unbound items more important to groups than the dd chest.
I'm not trying to argue but to explain a point of view, and i mentioned a solution to the problem that will satisfy both the need and the greed (need will bind the item)
Which was exactly my point
And so in the absence of this information, I simply passed on my experience and that of the people I know.
Not true. Cryptic will, like any company, do what is in their own best interest, and what it is possible for them to do within limits set by money, manpower, etc. they choose to allocate to matters such as this. Were this not the case, then every single bug and request for GM intervention could be dealt with immediately. So once again, as there is no official word from Cryptic, we are brought back to people responding with their personal experience.
And based on that I feel that the best thing for the OP to do is to move on and try to put themselves in situations that minimize their chances of experiencing anything like this again. Of course your game experiences may differ from myself and the people I know and that is fine, but that does not invalid our experiences either...
This is the thing to be done. Really it doesn't mean everyone will be punished every time this happens, but very soon a few players will receive the proper treatment for this behavior and then word will spread. The only reason this is becoming more common is because no action is being taken.
You want something to sell/salvage? Run the dungeon again and hope something drops for you.
Seriously, people are already running dungeons upwards of 50 times in hopes that a drop happens that they actually win the roll on, so I won't blame anyone that rolls need on an item. I don't care what they do with it, its for their class, then its theirs.
This is extreme, I know, but the player who's character is set (full T2, high ranking enchants, etc) has absolutely no right to be upset with the fresh character who has their first T1/T2 piece drop for them and they roll need so they can get. The only reason that player is mad is because they feel robbed.
"I could've sold that! It was worth Xamount of AD!"
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Which is why I (and other people also) suggested that any item that is won on a NEED roll is permanently bound, unsellable and non-salvageable,
I'm not against that. However, I'd still like to see a greed-only option, so everyone can get an equal shot at all items...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Times change very quickly And you had to grow up early. A house in smoking ruins and the bodies at your feet ~Iron Maiden
This is a very sensible suggestion and would solve the issue very nicely.
What they really need (besides greed only) is pooled auctions. Instead of greed runs, let every item either be salvaged on the spot and AD split or put up for auction and tagged to be split amongst the members of the group when it sells. Everyone put in the work to get the items, why not fairly split everything if it's a "greed" run.