I think that's a good point. Considering the purpose of Righteousness was to address DCs being too sturdy in PvP, having Healing Depression should ideally result in the removal (or significant toning down) of Righteousness
The thing is, even with Righteousness atm. Well build DC is unkillable in PVP. not unless you use 3 man on him with daily.
The thing is, even with Righteousness atm. Well build DC is unkillable in PVP. not unless you use 3 man on him with daily.
well built... but this was meant to address PvP overall, helping newbies
DC's cannot kill ppl that is what makes them semi-balanced
Look at a GWF, they can stand there and tank 3 ppl, have a lot of regen, and in addition kill people
As a DC, I can state it is quite easy to kill me if I am out of dodges, out of heals etc etc...
All it takes is a lot of cc which a GWF/GF/CW/HR have...
DC's have never been the OP class, there a a few strong DC's but overall most pug DC's are easily killable...
I have tried to play on the server, but it will not queue since there are not enough people. Also, I cannot get into gauntlgrym since I cannot form or join a guild since there are not enough people.
However, I would like to give some pretty clear feedback: this nerfs the utility of clerics by 50% more than it nerfs other classes. If the math works as stated, there is no way a healer will be able to maintain in pvp.
Next, this is a major hit to people who have spent the last 9 months gearing up their characters. Aquiring tenacity gear is easy enough, but some players will need all new enchants,and some will not. This is profoundly unfair.
So my first impression is that this whole idea is a bad one. Just balance the classes rather than add yet another variable into the mix. Keep It Simple is the best policy.
The thing is, even with Righteousness atm. Well build DC is unkillable in PVP. not unless you use 3 man on him with daily.
Now is ok but IF the healing, temp hp and regen is nerfed by 50%, Astral Shield only heals abt 160-170 per tick, Sacred Flame gives barely a line of temp hp, Divine Armor gives roughly a fingertip of temp hp, Healing Word when CRIT only heal like normal, our new paragon AC, heavily focused on temp hp build wasted a slot for our ultimate class feature which grants only 500+ temp hp per use of divinity encounter, Astral Seal has reduced heal (lifesteal? heal?), Anointed Army gives slight unnoticable temp hp when it ends, sunburst heals for 500-1000 only AND righteousness still burdening us! Not to say we have one boon to further reduce our heals by 25%!!! Are you ok with that? You are a DC?? But you don't see the problem?? Other classes can pump hp and temp hp more effectively than a cleric, why still need a cleric in pvp? Now righteous cleric is immortal because we outheal ourselves, at least heal more than damage we take, if we lost our temp hp, heals and regen, is it ok for us to stand in field?
10% Reduced Critical Strike Damage
10% Increased Damage Resistance
In addition to: Resistance to Critical Hits
Armor Penetration Suppression
extra Damage Resistance
I don't really see how this will fix the problem of too tanky characters...
sounds like a wash to me. GWFs will be just as powerful as before. yes they get less healing, but I also do significantly less damage to them. They can resist my critical hits altogether... and if it does crit, the overall damage is 10% less. That's not counting the fact that the actual hits will be far less with ArP suppression. And I didn't even mention the extra 10% damage resistance they get (lol) in addition to the DR they get from tenacity
As a TR who has ~50% crit, high ArP and a perfect vorpal... I feel like this forces me to change play styles. My damage will be laughable now.
I DONT want to play as a perma rogue and don't want to switch to bilethorn.
From what im reading this will be the case. this hurts high crit high burst TRs the most. executioner style of play is no longer viable
What the devs need to realize is that current pvp is more defensive than offensive in competitive matches with high GS players. GvG matches can be 40-55min and when u look at the kill totals at the end they are very low. Its hard to kill now in module 2 and takes lots of time
What you guys are hearing is the complaints of low GS players against high GS players. brackets would solve this
So great.. u lowered their healing. But u made my damage so low that its basically as if they have twice as many hit points. whats the real change then?
Does this mean we basically have to get the GG PvP set, otherwise we are at a disadvantage in PvP? Isn't this taking away from a lot of build diversity, forcing everyone to basically wear the same armor sets since they will ultimately be the best in PvP?
Does this mean we basically have to get the GG PvP set, otherwise we are at a disadvantage in PvP? Isn't this taking away from a lot of build diversity, forcing everyone to basically wear the same armor sets since they will ultimately be the best in PvP?
This is also my only main beef with the update. Before this patch, there's a variety of gear with equally useable bonuses for every class. Because of the usefulness of Tenacity expect everyone to be wearing 1 of 2 tenacity sets.
We need more PvP gear with different bonuses. Variety good. Homogenization bad.
Ok So I have been doing testing on Preview Shard, many things are broken on the Test server at the moment, for starters
- Regeneration is not being affected by the 50%
This has made fights WAY WAY longer then they should be in my opinion
I play a GWF. and 1v1 against a Hunter Ranger, I am critting for 5k MAX, if im lucky. And roots have still not been fixed?
SO basically a Hunter Ranger does More Damage then a GWF or a TR, and you cant get to him? since ITC and Unstoppable are not releasing Roots when you use them. I think this should definitely be looked into, this is old news, and should have been in the patch notes. Storm step has been fixed, thank you for that. But being Rooted and not being able to Unstoppabble out of it, or Impossible to Catch out of it, doesn't make sense, and it breaks pvp cconsidering HR does more damage then a GWF or a TR , and we cant get to him.
Other Facts-
Me and my guildies are all testing together with a variety of classes all Geared to the max/similiar level of skill.
HUnter ranger Aimed Shot Crit on a GWF:
Current Mod 2 Live - 18k
Test Shard with Changes - 6k.......
GWF battle Strike Crit on a HR:
Current Mod 2 Live - 15-18k
Test Shard with Changes - 2.5k-5k.....
CW Shard on a DC :
Current mod 2 Live : 10-15k
Test Shard with Changes : 1k-3k.......
Where are these numbers coming from? Tenacity is increasing DR by a maximum of 18% , that's using full 6 piece PVP set (including Weapons/Off Hand), These Numbers have diminished by oer 75%, when the maximum amount of DR gained by Tenacity is 18-19%?
Where is this 60-75% DR coming from? it doesnt make sense,
Final Thoughts :
-PvP is now BORING.
-Everyone is doing WAY less damage..
-CW's are useless in a 5v5 (CW can be killed by a DC (test it)) (can be easily replaced by a HR in a rainbow composition)
-Fights will extend 300% uptime against everyone.
-Big Issue - LACK OF FUN, seeing big numbers on the screen should be apart of any MMO.
-Damage Resistance shown on character sheet, and seen through Physical testing on other players do not match, and it makes no sense. Mod 2 Battle Strike Crit - 15-19k. Test Shard Current - 2.5k-5k ???????? there is no way.....
Major Thought's on Tenacity :
Tenacity gives - Bonus Damage Resist
Bonus Armor Penetration Resist
Bonus Critical damage resist
Bonus Control Resist
That is Insane, all 4 of these stats are reducing way too much damage, to the point where its literally boring, i mean every source of DPS that could possibly be imagined has been reduced here, Crit dmg, ARP dmmg, Damage resistance, I mean really? this is too much damage resistance taken off of everyone. way too much, it doesnt make any sense. Balancing PvP should have been done through different methods, considering there is no way of testing these numbers either until u get hit/or Hit another PLAYER, so basically the Trade of Blades is useless now, since those numbers on dummy's mean nothing. This Patch should be heavily worked on before release....HEAVILY. the Damage that has been reduced by all 4 of these stats Tenacity gives is way too much.
Remove Base Armor Pen Resistance from Tenacity
Remove Critical Strike Damage Resistance from Tenacity.
LEAVE Base DR
LEAVE Base CC resistance.
This Seems like a Business Model to hug the Majority of PVP'ers (Beginners, QQing about getting stomped in pvp)
While the Minority (Veterans/Pros) were taken out of the Equation.
The logic you have seemed pretty good to me then you dropped this:
So you think that DC's shouldn't be able to kill anyone. Why should that be?
NO that is not what i'm implying.
Im Implying that a Sentinel Built PvP Healing Cleric Should not be able to kill a Damage Dealing Thaum Built PVP CW.
I understand what your saying Izatar. I agree that stuff should be balanced through classes. but come on....
Im sorry but The Fact that tenacity is reducing damage by LITERALLY 75% + is Ghastly.
Second each class only has two pvp sets a t1, and a t2. There needs to be some more choices introduced fairly rapidly after this system goes live so that there is more gear diversity.
Third, I haven't been on preview yet to check this but please make sure tenacity doesn't add to gs. If it does it's going to greatly confuse some new players on why they do poorly in pve even though they have (made up number) 15kgs with t2 pvp gear and barely any enchantments.
Overall I like the addition of pvp stats and making pvp armor better for pvp and pve armor better for pve.
Although Righteousness has apparently avoided a comment from a dev....
Let's talk about the pvp sets for clerics that give Life Steal as a (wasted) stat. I definitely hope there will be variety in the mix of gear. As it stands, I'm being stronghanded to have it on top of the halved effectiveness in pvp....
Please don't rush this. This can make or break the game.
Final Thoughts :
-PvP is now BORING.
-Everyone is doing WAY less damage..
-CW's are useless in a 5v5 (CW can be killed by a DC (test it)) (can be easily replaced by a HR in a rainbow composition)
-Fights will extend 300% uptime against everyone.
-Big Issue - LACK OF FUN, seeing big numbers on the screen should be apart of any MMO.
-Damage Resistance shown on character sheet, and seen through Physical testing on other players do not match, and it makes no sense. Mod 2 Battle Strike Crit - 15-19k. Test Shard Current - 2.5k-5k ???????? there is no way.....
This Seems like a Business Model to hug the Majority of PVP'ers (Beginners, QQing about getting stomped in pvp)
While the Minority (Veterans/Pros) were taken out of the Equation.
Being 1-shot by High-end gears players is not fun either. By the way, is it more fun for you that you crush a pug in few seconds then just looking at each other for 5 minutes since the other team left?
I agree that the current dmg resistance is kind of overboard but Armor pen and crit dmg resistance is necessary since you can cap those stat so easily due to boons, and artifacts. In the future, when they release even more boons and new tiers gear, the damage will be so high that the game will just end up with who shots first. That is even more boring than right now.
I think base damage res should be only thing removed from the stat. Here is why no matter what class it is they are going to have one of the following stat high in either crit or arp or both. those 2 stats are what make big health loss issues in pvp. Especially when you have perfect vorpal on making crit severity up high and stacked with arp . The tr already has high crit chance already, Hr already has high arp same with mages pvp arm. gwf gets some arp threw recovery and most gwf have high crit or arp stats added. Gf stack crit and arp. If base damaged was taken out of the stat at least player wouldn't see a major decrease in damaged output. But we would see a major decrease in massive health lose from one skill due to a player crit and that crit going threw because of high arp. Also most skills on class have dot which usally doesn't crit with dot and is more of a base damaged. just my thought on it and just before its asked I play all classes and yes every class needs a rework between some skill that needs some duration taken down or some skill most all other classes has. like immune to cc
Tenacity in its current form, looks like a band-aid over something that's an internal thing. Giving so much to one stat is also indicative that the devs are trying to 'fix' too much in one stat. imo.
A better approach (insert armchair general mode) would be to divide the benefits of the current tenacity stat & the baseline bonuses: Instead of getting these stats, that are easy to come by/given, split them, and make each a type of enchant; ultimately letting the player decide his build. By doing this, it would also solve the issue with PVE'ers wanting to use their fancy dungeon loot in PVP and it wouldn't entirely neuter current pvp specs so grossly.
Going across the board and inserting damage resist X, that much, sounds ridiculous (going by steamrollers report). It makes me wonder if the devs (the moderator for sure is biased - read earlier in this post), had some unpleasant experiences from overly geared GWF's, lol. I know that I can wreck in pvp, dare I say, "troll", soft targets but surely the devs aren't playing the newb 'victim' builds....
It seems to me, that the perceived ambivalence towards GWF comes down to a GS imbalance than anything else. I've had some very challenging times with X types of classes that are equally geared to me (depending on their spec & skill). So, I figure, a GS match system would be much more appropriate than these new damage resist mechanics.
Sigh.... Like all other MMO companies it seems.... Neverwinter isn't escaping the "\insert balance -proletariat welfare" model. Instead of adding choices.... everyone is practically getting the same uber 'gimme'.
Bug: Trickster Rogue & Guardian Fighter's daily Impossible to catch & Other immunity abilities doenst correctly work.
Bug: Guardian Fighter Prone is too long actually.
Feedback: Tenacity I don't really like at all this new Tenacity, good for more surviving in pvp, but good enought to make Guardian Fighter's the most deadly / tanking class. In addiction I am missing some of my critical change, armor penetration and Health point that battlefield's skulker gear give me.
Feedback: Devoted Cleric You just killed this class for pvp as healer. A good equipped Devoted cleric as tanker can now tank 3 or 4 players without problems. Is that a pvp change against Immortal players? Don't think so.
Feedback: Trickster rogue Again, we received another nerf. Patch after patch I can see every player hitting more then me also if I am playing the top DPS melee class. This Tenacity and -10% critical change base is just another nerf that I don't like.
Every rogue plays the Executioner's path, because the other Two paths are really useless in this game (go check "The Thieves'Den" from and search for any non-executioner build)
After this new critical damage resistance, that will bring my perfect vorpal at 40% I.C.Damage, I wanted to test a new build, because you nerfed again the only good path we have, based on critical damage.
The new build was a mix from Scoundrel and Sabouter feats. Probably a Devoted Cleric will deal more damage than me.
As you can understund, is not possible to play a class that can only play 1 path and patch after patch is always nerfed.
Actually some Great Weapon Fighter with Sentinel's feat (TANK ONE) can hit more then my well-equipped rogue on live server.
If you think that I am wrong about Trickster Rogue's path, I will give you the build-link, that seems good before to play it. Feel free to test an high-movement class without damage.
If you want a pvp balance system, I will suggest you to think about a new rank join system as I wrote in the following link, because lot of players like the actual pvp mechanic of this game and incoming one is only receiving negative feedback as I can see into the game and on forum.
Of course all Guardian Fighters are happy to have these changes, not objective people that only think their class. Like if I am not going to play Guardian fighter if this system is not going to receive a nerf.
well built... but this was meant to address PvP overall, helping newbies
DC's cannot kill ppl that is what makes them semi-balanced
Look at a GWF, they can stand there and tank 3 ppl, have a lot of regen, and in addition kill people
As a DC, I can state it is quite easy to kill me if I am out of dodges, out of heals etc etc...
All it takes is a lot of cc which a GWF/GF/CW/HR have...
DC's have never been the OP class, there a a few strong DC's but overall most pug DC's are easily killable...
DC deserve that nerf. It is part of the balance over all. No one say DC is OP, since you never kill anything legit. It is just strong when you actually build him right and you have a solid understanding of how to play one.
And I honestly don't care the pug casual PVP player, if they walk in as a DC with 22k HP yes they will die, a lot. With or without this patch changes, those 22k HP fresh/causal DC player are gonna die in PVP quickly no matter what.
Same thing you don't play a premade with r3/r4 plus a PVE feat spec right? If you do you should know you are gonna become a mobile free kill. Proper gearing is always part of the game no matter in PVP or PVE, just because some people are stupid doesn't mean we have to give them attention.
mod note: this is a feedback thread meant for you to give feedback based on your own tests of Tenacity on the preview shard. this is not the place to:
provide feedback on other pvp suggestions (pvp ladder, more maps, etc)
speculate
get into discussions/arguments with other posters
forum rules still apply. posts that do not meet the criteria of constructive feedback will be removed without notice. insulting posts may be removed with a warning. continued warnings may warrant the banning of your forum account.
please utilize the suggested feedback format provided in this post:
Feedback
We need to collect as much feedback as possible on this so we can further dial in the exact bonuses that Tenacity and other effects will require. Given that, we would like you to categorize and color code your feedback so we can sort it and act on it most effectively! Please use the below format to submit bugs/feedback.
Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one) Class: (Please enter the class that you played as during your testing here)
Please use “Bold” face text for the Type & Class then type your feedback in the body of your post. If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use BLUE.
(Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Examples: Bug: Control Wizard When I had 1000 Tenacity I began taking much more damage than normal and dealt far too little.
Feedback: Great Weapon Fighter Control Wizards were too tanky and consistently could win fights where they were alone against many foes.
Please try to play several matches before giving feedback so that you get a good feel for the changes. Thank you again for all your help Adventurers! We look forward to hearing back from you! Also keep your eyes peeled for Devs to be on the Preview shard playing PVP with you!
Chris “Gentleman_Crush” Meyer
do not reply to this mod note. if you would like to discuss this moderation, send us a PM. thanks.
General Feedback: Tenacity is a major cut into the existing balancing which warrants further changes to the PVP equipment in my eyes. Most obviously, but not limited to, this affects the TR, DC and HR armor sets, which grant Life Steal and/or Regen and are now substantially worse than the comparable sets of other classes.
Also Power becomes more important because it is not directly diminished by the changes.
Addition of Tenacity to PVP Gear, which gives the following bonuses
Resistance to Critical Hits
Armor Penetration Suppression
Damage Resistance
Could someone clarify the distinction?
Is the Damage Resistance applied after the Armor Penetration Suppression?
Is the Resistance to Critical Hits applied after the Armor Penetration Suppression?
Is the Damage Resistance applied additional to the Resistance to Critical Hits so that critical hits get double nerfed?
Or is the Armor Penetration Suppression applied generally and depending on the hit Resistance to Critical Hits or Damage Resistance applies as well?
with full GG set (excluding weapons):
10% bonus damage resist
+18% bonus damage resist
=28% Bonus damage resist
10% critical resist
+18% critical resist
=28% Less damage from crits
11% arpen resist
and that's not an actual percent mod, it's their 30% mitigation ignored vs. your -11% arpen effectiveness = they ignore 19% mitigation
EDIT: fixed arpen resist. there is no base resist in pvp as I previously thought.
May I suggest, as an alternative to the incredibly high values provided by tenacity;
reducing the bonus given by the Vorpal line of enchantments,
A milder version of tenacity's bonuses - maybe +5% max to pvp resists
10% bonus control resist (base pvp)
+18% control resist (gg armor set)
+10% control resist (Halfling)
+x% control resist (stat mod - typically WIS - and in my HRs case 5%)
= 43% control resistance
This is simply too high.
Max control effectiveness (in pvp, so no companion active bonus):
15% (Orb of Imposition)
+x% (stat mod WIS, let's say 10 to be very generous - my pvp cw has 5)
+5% (Shard of Valindra's Crown, Legendary)
Comments
It does not
The gauntlgrym gear offers has tenacity on all items, while glory gear has this stat only on armors and bracers. Why?
The thing is, even with Righteousness atm. Well build DC is unkillable in PVP. not unless you use 3 man on him with daily.
well built... but this was meant to address PvP overall, helping newbies
DC's cannot kill ppl that is what makes them semi-balanced
Look at a GWF, they can stand there and tank 3 ppl, have a lot of regen, and in addition kill people
As a DC, I can state it is quite easy to kill me if I am out of dodges, out of heals etc etc...
All it takes is a lot of cc which a GWF/GF/CW/HR have...
DC's have never been the OP class, there a a few strong DC's but overall most pug DC's are easily killable...
However, I would like to give some pretty clear feedback: this nerfs the utility of clerics by 50% more than it nerfs other classes. If the math works as stated, there is no way a healer will be able to maintain in pvp.
Next, this is a major hit to people who have spent the last 9 months gearing up their characters. Aquiring tenacity gear is easy enough, but some players will need all new enchants,and some will not. This is profoundly unfair.
So my first impression is that this whole idea is a bad one. Just balance the classes rather than add yet another variable into the mix.
Keep It Simple is the best policy.
Now is ok but IF the healing, temp hp and regen is nerfed by 50%, Astral Shield only heals abt 160-170 per tick, Sacred Flame gives barely a line of temp hp, Divine Armor gives roughly a fingertip of temp hp, Healing Word when CRIT only heal like normal, our new paragon AC, heavily focused on temp hp build wasted a slot for our ultimate class feature which grants only 500+ temp hp per use of divinity encounter, Astral Seal has reduced heal (lifesteal? heal?), Anointed Army gives slight unnoticable temp hp when it ends, sunburst heals for 500-1000 only AND righteousness still burdening us! Not to say we have one boon to further reduce our heals by 25%!!! Are you ok with that? You are a DC?? But you don't see the problem?? Other classes can pump hp and temp hp more effectively than a cleric, why still need a cleric in pvp? Now righteous cleric is immortal because we outheal ourselves, at least heal more than damage we take, if we lost our temp hp, heals and regen, is it ok for us to stand in field?
10% Increased Damage Resistance
In addition to:
Resistance to Critical Hits
Armor Penetration Suppression
extra Damage Resistance
I don't really see how this will fix the problem of too tanky characters...
sounds like a wash to me. GWFs will be just as powerful as before. yes they get less healing, but I also do significantly less damage to them. They can resist my critical hits altogether... and if it does crit, the overall damage is 10% less. That's not counting the fact that the actual hits will be far less with ArP suppression. And I didn't even mention the extra 10% damage resistance they get (lol) in addition to the DR they get from tenacity
As a TR who has ~50% crit, high ArP and a perfect vorpal... I feel like this forces me to change play styles. My damage will be laughable now.
I DONT want to play as a perma rogue and don't want to switch to bilethorn.
From what im reading this will be the case. this hurts high crit high burst TRs the most. executioner style of play is no longer viable
What you guys are hearing is the complaints of low GS players against high GS players. brackets would solve this
So great.. u lowered their healing. But u made my damage so low that its basically as if they have twice as many hit points. whats the real change then?
This is also my only main beef with the update. Before this patch, there's a variety of gear with equally useable bonuses for every class. Because of the usefulness of Tenacity expect everyone to be wearing 1 of 2 tenacity sets.
We need more PvP gear with different bonuses. Variety good. Homogenization bad.
- Regeneration is not being affected by the 50%
This has made fights WAY WAY longer then they should be in my opinion
I play a GWF. and 1v1 against a Hunter Ranger, I am critting for 5k MAX, if im lucky. And roots have still not been fixed?
SO basically a Hunter Ranger does More Damage then a GWF or a TR, and you cant get to him? since ITC and Unstoppable are not releasing Roots when you use them. I think this should definitely be looked into, this is old news, and should have been in the patch notes. Storm step has been fixed, thank you for that. But being Rooted and not being able to Unstoppabble out of it, or Impossible to Catch out of it, doesn't make sense, and it breaks pvp cconsidering HR does more damage then a GWF or a TR , and we cant get to him.
Other Facts-
Me and my guildies are all testing together with a variety of classes all Geared to the max/similiar level of skill.
HUnter ranger Aimed Shot Crit on a GWF:
Current Mod 2 Live - 18k
Test Shard with Changes - 6k.......
GWF battle Strike Crit on a HR:
Current Mod 2 Live - 15-18k
Test Shard with Changes - 2.5k-5k.....
CW Shard on a DC :
Current mod 2 Live : 10-15k
Test Shard with Changes : 1k-3k.......
Where are these numbers coming from? Tenacity is increasing DR by a maximum of 18% , that's using full 6 piece PVP set (including Weapons/Off Hand), These Numbers have diminished by oer 75%, when the maximum amount of DR gained by Tenacity is 18-19%?
Where is this 60-75% DR coming from? it doesnt make sense,
Final Thoughts :
-PvP is now BORING.
-Everyone is doing WAY less damage..
-CW's are useless in a 5v5 (CW can be killed by a DC (test it)) (can be easily replaced by a HR in a rainbow composition)
-Fights will extend 300% uptime against everyone.
-Big Issue - LACK OF FUN, seeing big numbers on the screen should be apart of any MMO.
-Damage Resistance shown on character sheet, and seen through Physical testing on other players do not match, and it makes no sense. Mod 2 Battle Strike Crit - 15-19k. Test Shard Current - 2.5k-5k ???????? there is no way.....
Major Thought's on Tenacity :
Tenacity gives - Bonus Damage Resist
Bonus Armor Penetration Resist
Bonus Critical damage resist
Bonus Control Resist
That is Insane, all 4 of these stats are reducing way too much damage, to the point where its literally boring, i mean every source of DPS that could possibly be imagined has been reduced here, Crit dmg, ARP dmmg, Damage resistance, I mean really? this is too much damage resistance taken off of everyone. way too much, it doesnt make any sense. Balancing PvP should have been done through different methods, considering there is no way of testing these numbers either until u get hit/or Hit another PLAYER, so basically the Trade of Blades is useless now, since those numbers on dummy's mean nothing. This Patch should be heavily worked on before release....HEAVILY. the Damage that has been reduced by all 4 of these stats Tenacity gives is way too much.
Remove Base Armor Pen Resistance from Tenacity
Remove Critical Strike Damage Resistance from Tenacity.
LEAVE Base DR
LEAVE Base CC resistance.
This Seems like a Business Model to hug the Majority of PVP'ers (Beginners, QQing about getting stomped in pvp)
While the Minority (Veterans/Pros) were taken out of the Equation.
So you think that DC's shouldn't be able to kill anyone. Why should that be?
NO that is not what i'm implying.
Im Implying that a Sentinel Built PvP Healing Cleric Should not be able to kill a Damage Dealing Thaum Built PVP CW.
I understand what your saying Izatar. I agree that stuff should be balanced through classes. but come on....
Im sorry but The Fact that tenacity is reducing damage by LITERALLY 75% + is Ghastly.
First the poor dc's and righteousness.
Second each class only has two pvp sets a t1, and a t2. There needs to be some more choices introduced fairly rapidly after this system goes live so that there is more gear diversity.
Third, I haven't been on preview yet to check this but please make sure tenacity doesn't add to gs. If it does it's going to greatly confuse some new players on why they do poorly in pve even though they have (made up number) 15kgs with t2 pvp gear and barely any enchantments.
Overall I like the addition of pvp stats and making pvp armor better for pvp and pve armor better for pve.
Let's talk about the pvp sets for clerics that give Life Steal as a (wasted) stat. I definitely hope there will be variety in the mix of gear. As it stands, I'm being stronghanded to have it on top of the halved effectiveness in pvp....
Please don't rush this. This can make or break the game.
Being 1-shot by High-end gears players is not fun either. By the way, is it more fun for you that you crush a pug in few seconds then just looking at each other for 5 minutes since the other team left?
I agree that the current dmg resistance is kind of overboard but Armor pen and crit dmg resistance is necessary since you can cap those stat so easily due to boons, and artifacts. In the future, when they release even more boons and new tiers gear, the damage will be so high that the game will just end up with who shots first. That is even more boring than right now.
Tenacity in its current form, looks like a band-aid over something that's an internal thing. Giving so much to one stat is also indicative that the devs are trying to 'fix' too much in one stat. imo.
A better approach (insert armchair general mode) would be to divide the benefits of the current tenacity stat & the baseline bonuses: Instead of getting these stats, that are easy to come by/given, split them, and make each a type of enchant; ultimately letting the player decide his build. By doing this, it would also solve the issue with PVE'ers wanting to use their fancy dungeon loot in PVP and it wouldn't entirely neuter current pvp specs so grossly.
Going across the board and inserting damage resist X, that much, sounds ridiculous (going by steamrollers report). It makes me wonder if the devs (the moderator for sure is biased - read earlier in this post), had some unpleasant experiences from overly geared GWF's, lol. I know that I can wreck in pvp, dare I say, "troll", soft targets but surely the devs aren't playing the newb 'victim' builds....
It seems to me, that the perceived ambivalence towards GWF comes down to a GS imbalance than anything else. I've had some very challenging times with X types of classes that are equally geared to me (depending on their spec & skill). So, I figure, a GS match system would be much more appropriate than these new damage resist mechanics.
Sigh.... Like all other MMO companies it seems.... Neverwinter isn't escaping the "\insert balance -proletariat welfare" model. Instead of adding choices.... everyone is practically getting the same uber 'gimme'.
Character:
Mead Mogg (lvl 60)
GWF, Half Orc, Iron Vanguard,
Destroyer/sentinel
Impossible to catch & Other immunity abilities doenst correctly work.
Bug: Guardian Fighter
Prone is too long actually.
Feedback: Tenacity
I don't really like at all this new Tenacity, good for more surviving in pvp, but good enought to make Guardian Fighter's the most deadly / tanking class. In addiction I am missing some of my critical change, armor penetration and Health point that battlefield's skulker gear give me.
Feedback: Devoted Cleric
You just killed this class for pvp as healer. A good equipped Devoted cleric as tanker can now tank 3 or 4 players without problems. Is that a pvp change against Immortal players? Don't think so.
Feedback: Trickster rogue
Again, we received another nerf. Patch after patch I can see every player hitting more then me also if I am playing the top DPS melee class. This Tenacity and -10% critical change base is just another nerf that I don't like.
Every rogue plays the Executioner's path, because the other Two paths are really useless in this game (go check "The Thieves'Den" from and search for any non-executioner build)
After this new critical damage resistance, that will bring my perfect vorpal at 40% I.C.Damage, I wanted to test a new build, because you nerfed again the only good path we have, based on critical damage.
The new build was a mix from Scoundrel and Sabouter feats. Probably a Devoted Cleric will deal more damage than me.
As you can understund, is not possible to play a class that can only play 1 path and patch after patch is always nerfed.
Actually some Great Weapon Fighter with Sentinel's feat (TANK ONE) can hit more then my well-equipped rogue on live server.
If you think that I am wrong about Trickster Rogue's path, I will give you the build-link, that seems good before to play it. Feel free to test an high-movement class without damage.
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=np3:1xfyuo:20e01s,1cn0505:1uu5u1:15u000:100000&h=0&p=min
If you want a pvp balance system, I will suggest you to think about a new rank join system as I wrote in the following link, because lot of players like the actual pvp mechanic of this game and incoming one is only receiving negative feedback as I can see into the game and on forum.
Of course all Guardian Fighters are happy to have these changes, not objective people that only think their class. Like if I am not going to play Guardian fighter if this system is not going to receive a nerf.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?582741-Shadowmantle-PvP-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-14-20140114b-1&p=7035081&viewfull=1#post7035081
Youtube: Trickster Rogue - Pug Match @ 1 vs 1
Screenshot zone:
Click: I Bet 99% of people CAN'T screenshot this
Arms and Armor for glory have only Tenacity stat. Other items: feet, helm, weapon, off-hand don't have.
DC deserve that nerf. It is part of the balance over all. No one say DC is OP, since you never kill anything legit. It is just strong when you actually build him right and you have a solid understanding of how to play one.
And I honestly don't care the pug casual PVP player, if they walk in as a DC with 22k HP yes they will die, a lot. With or without this patch changes, those 22k HP fresh/causal DC player are gonna die in PVP quickly no matter what.
Same thing you don't play a premade with r3/r4 plus a PVE feat spec right? If you do you should know you are gonna become a mobile free kill. Proper gearing is always part of the game no matter in PVP or PVE, just because some people are stupid doesn't mean we have to give them attention.
- provide feedback on other pvp suggestions (pvp ladder, more maps, etc)
- speculate
- get into discussions/arguments with other posters
forum rules still apply. posts that do not meet the criteria of constructive feedback will be removed without notice. insulting posts may be removed with a warning. continued warnings may warrant the banning of your forum account.please utilize the suggested feedback format provided in this post:
do not reply to this mod note. if you would like to discuss this moderation, send us a PM. thanks.
Tenacity is a major cut into the existing balancing which warrants further changes to the PVP equipment in my eyes. Most obviously, but not limited to, this affects the TR, DC and HR armor sets, which grant Life Steal and/or Regen and are now substantially worse than the comparable sets of other classes.
Also Power becomes more important because it is not directly diminished by the changes.
Could someone clarify the distinction?
Is the Damage Resistance applied after the Armor Penetration Suppression?
Is the Resistance to Critical Hits applied after the Armor Penetration Suppression?
Is the Damage Resistance applied additional to the Resistance to Critical Hits so that critical hits get double nerfed?
Or is the Armor Penetration Suppression applied generally and depending on the hit Resistance to Critical Hits or Damage Resistance applies as well?
10% bonus damage resist
+18% bonus damage resist
=28% Bonus damage resist
10% critical resist
+18% critical resist
=28% Less damage from crits
11% arpen resist
and that's not an actual percent mod, it's their 30% mitigation ignored vs. your -11% arpen effectiveness = they ignore 19% mitigation
EDIT: fixed arpen resist. there is no base resist in pvp as I previously thought.
May I suggest, as an alternative to the incredibly high values provided by tenacity;
edit2: fixed lots of stuff
10% bonus control resist (base pvp)
+18% control resist (gg armor set)
+10% control resist (Halfling)
+x% control resist (stat mod - typically WIS - and in my HRs case 5%)
= 43% control resistance
This is simply too high.
Max control effectiveness (in pvp, so no companion active bonus):
15% (Orb of Imposition)
+x% (stat mod WIS, let's say 10 to be very generous - my pvp cw has 5)
+5% (Shard of Valindra's Crown, Legendary)
=+30%