pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
May I ask a few questions?
I like your spec most from what I've read in this subforum. Seems there's a lot of damage going on with basically the same CC as in more conservative builds, from what I tried on the test shard. So, seeing that I haven't use my free respec yet, I'd like to give it a go. There are a few things I'm not comfortable with though or don't understand what you meant properly.
- shard seems an awesome spell now. But Enfeeblement might be quite necessary to have for single target? I wouldn't want to miss either.
- the 1st chill spec will use Chilling Cloud in PvP as well? Is it effective? Seems very slow, never saw anybody using it.
- in arcane based 2nd spec, at one point you write "CC and MM" for at wills. So one should use both, or use CC for AoE situations and MM for single target? Maybe you can clarify.
- Storm Pillar is kinda inconvenient to use. Is it replaceable in the Arcane spec, without too much of a loss?
- you have Chilling Presence, Evocation, Storm Spell and EotS all taken. I'm using SS and EotS now, and they work nicely. Would it be worth dropping one so I can have my Ray of Enfeeblement? I suppose the one that I see you recommend least is EotS from these.
So in the end, what I am trying to find out is a spec rooted in yours that contains these factors:
- uses CC for AoE trash than maybe switches for MM at single target bosses, or just stick with CC if the dps loss is negligible
- hopefully keeps Enfeeblement, SotEA and EotS
Any advice? Sadly I cannot test specs properly on the test shard because I have nobody to run dungeons with and I'm limited to dummies, and I don't want to waste my free respec, I'm a poor mage
I had decided to drop
shield to rank 1, cause seldom use it after the nerf except for "throwing" mob over the ledge
arcane singularity to rank 2, because with Opp force, AS only used to throw in some map
as for passive, i know u like evocation, cause u r using vorpal, and evocation can add flat 15% damage to ur AOE skill
thus, it make your critical damage go higher
but i still prefer using Plague fire, in my normal group, im the one that provide debuff from HV and PF
so i like storm spell and EotS, cause the DOT proc storm spell alot
i usually running dungeon with - (CoI-MASTERY), shard, sudden storm/icy terrain(depends i need more dmg or CC), steal time
i still learn chilling presense as backup, incase they change EotS back to the old version, then 18% will be good. it also good for some boss with chill stacking
as for feat, my doubt will be reaper's touch vs critical power
if AP generation from shard is good, and critical power make it better, we can have more CC and more damage at the same time, rather than spam at-will
different skill have different usage at different situation
so i try to get all skill that is necessary
After doing some extensive testing and calculations with this build, I found that it simply lacks in the DPS category when compared to my own build. Keep in mind that my gs and stats is about similar to what Kerro have with the exception that I have a Greater Vorpal slotted instead of a Pefect. My build follows the Renegade Tree and it relies exclusively on good rotations, and with good timing and combos is able to consistently outdps Kerros second arcane hybrid build by at least 8-12%, because his build is not the most efficient at using the boulder of fury rotation, wqhich is by far the best single AOE dps skill available atm and would make no sense not to go down the arcane mastery route. This had me pretty excited as I am by far the highest DPS doer of any T2 dungeons I partied up in, without fail all the time. I will now try to make a guide on the build I am using, and I am trying to compile it in a good format with all the extensive information having not done a guide before, so bear with me, with all the calculations, and not just the Feat trees and power tree, but the specific rotations I use for a given moment, or situation rotation. Watch this space.
My build was made basically almost after this build.
I have some different view about class features though. Means I don't use Evocation and use instead Chilling Presence(single)/EOFTS(pve)+Storm Spell.
I want to ask now that I get my hand on vorpal enchantment the eye of the storm class feature become mandatory to me to make the most of vorpal right?
pers3phone, i had the same thinking as you or maybe roughly similar build ^^
You found nice mixeup there I'd say. I personally went in the end with a modified Renegade version of grimah 's build and dropped Thaum (with regret). But I am playing with another HV mage with this kerrovitarra's cold build and the DPS is overall the same, very small differences which I attribute to stuff like one of us dying, or missing a few Shard spells on big packs and so on. This allows me to enjoy best of PvP and PvE.
1. RoE is better for single, but there are no extra points in frost build and, personally, I already switched to arcane version of my build. But there is a possibility to drop points from shield and one (or 2) points from IT and take RoE, if you want.
2. First build uses Ray of Frost for PvP.
3. Chilling Cloud for maintaining +5% buff and AM for rest.
4. Yes, take malevolent surge and remove pillar, if you want.
5. Evocation is best for AoE. EotS works mostly on single target and PvP. ChP gives good damage boost for static single target, where you wouldn't run or dodge too much. Storm Spell is must have passive.
6. You still can use Chilling Cloud for single target in arcane spec, but you will lose arcane stacks: +15% damage for MM and RoE (and +duration of RoE).
I want to ask now that I get my hand on vorpal enchantment the eye of the storm class feature become mandatory to me to make the most of vorpal right?
EotS works better, if you don't have any crit. The more crit you have - the less EotS will give. And it often procs, when it isn't needed in PvE AoE occasions.
After doing some extensive testing and calculations with this build, I found that it simply lacks in the DPS category when compared to my own build. Keep in mind that my gs and stats is about similar to what Kerro have with the exception that I have a Greater Vorpal slotted instead of a Pefect. My build follows the Renegade Tree and it relies exclusively on good rotations, and with good timing and combos is able to consistently outdps Kerros second arcane hybrid build by at least 8-12%, because his build is not the most efficient at using the boulder of fury rotation, wqhich is by far the best single AOE dps skill available atm and would make no sense not to go down the arcane mastery route. This had me pretty excited as I am by far the highest DPS doer of any T2 dungeons I partied up in, without fail all the time. I will now try to make a guide on the build I am using, and I am trying to compile it in a good format with all the extensive information having not done a guide before, so bear with me, with all the calculations, and not just the Feat trees and power tree, but the specific rotations I use for a given moment, or situation rotation. Watch this space.
Didn't quite understand. Can you show your calculations? I simply can't believe that rene can outDPS thau in AoE. Thau boosts all arcane encounters for 10% and has +15% damage on SotEA, while rene has random proccing NW and +15% additional CS with it. Not to mention +25% and +10% flat damage buffs from thau at-wills.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1. RoE is better for single, but there are no extra points in frost build and, personally, I already switched to arcane version of my build. But there is a possibility to drop points from shield and one (or 2) points from IT and take RoE, if you want.
2. First build uses Ray of Frost for PvP.
3. Chilling Cloud for maintaining +5% buff and AM for rest.
4. Yes, take malevolent surge and remove pillar, if you want.
5. Evocation is best for AoE. EotS works mostly on single target and PvP. ChP gives good damage boost for static single target, where you wouldn't run or dodge too much. Storm Spell is must have passive.
6. You still can use Chilling Cloud for single target in arcane spec, but you will lose arcane stacks: +15% damage for MM and RoE (and +duration of RoE).
Thanks for the answers. I already figured out some of these things by myself but it's always very good to have confirmation from more experienced people.
I simply can't believe that rene can outDPS thau in AoE. Thau boosts all arcane encounters for 10% and has +15% damage on SotEA, while rene has random proccing NW and +15% additional CS with it. Not to mention +25% and +10% flat damage buffs from thau at-wills.
Why did you have to say this? Now I am having second thoughts about going Renegade again They should move the SotEA buff to the Rene tree.
not sure why you skip on bitter cold. its practically a permanent +5% to all damage vs 15% on only shard for example or a short duration debuff after using an arcane encounter.
EotS works better, if you don't have any crit. The more crit you have - the less EotS will give. And it often procs, when it isn't needed in PvE AoE occasions.
I am sorry I don't understand something fundamental here.
I understand that with high critical EotS shall be avoided but I thought vorpal just raise the damage with critical severity and not critical chance.
So I thought If I can have 6 second guaranteed critical with EotS it will be a good thing because n.vorpal are doing +25% more damage for 6 seconds.
not sure why you skip on bitter cold. its practically a permanent +5% to all damage vs 15% on only shard for example or a short duration debuff after using an arcane encounter.
+10% mitigation debuff applies directly before strike, meaning +10% damage to all arcane spells, iirc.
+15% shard damage and +20% IR damage is personal preference. Damage difference in real fights is barely noticable.
I am sorry I don't understand something fundamental here.
I understand that with high critical EotS shall be avoided but I thought vorpal just raise the damage with critical severity and not critical chance.
So I thought If I can have 6 second guaranteed critical with EotS it will be a good thing because n.vorpal are doing +25% more damage for 6 seconds.
EotS lasts only 2-3 seconds. In my case, it often procs, when I cast SotEA and expires right before boulder hits pack: boulder is slow and there is a delay before cast and ability to hurl it. Same problem for Sudden Storm: projectile speed is slow. EotS is good for DoT damage: DoTs, applied wit EotS buff will crit even after buff expire.
have you respecced your build to include Focused Wizardry (+3% AoE damage per rank) now that (according to nethreldras' tests) Focused Wizardry and Wizard's Wrath works on so many spells, including CoI, SS, IT, OP etc.?
A thing to note in that context of PVP and single target boss fights -
CoI now benefits from the +15% AoE damage from WW/FW, so if we play CoI together with Chill Strike in the spell mastery slot, at least 2/4 encounters (3 if we play shield) benefits from the +15% damage.
It's important to me to know if this build is a bit effective against Permastealth TR that oneshot everyone
Only permastealths that come close to oneshotting people have tenes. To counter tenes you need specific PvP build, specific PvP gear, and preferably tenes yourself.
This build is amazing, but it is however mostly for dishing ungodly AoE damage in dungeons.
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deviltyphoon2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
Only permastealths that come close to oneshotting people have tenes. To counter tenes you need specific PvP build, specific PvP gear, and preferably tenes yourself.
This build is amazing, but it is however mostly for dishing ungodly AoE damage in dungeons.
So...what build is PVP specific for the wizard? I already read the other pvp build but people always have something to criticize..
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Some CWs play Renegade, but from what I saw when I met the best CWs in the game, Oppressor is more efficient in terms of survivability and control. There's obviously something to criticize everywhere, that's why there is a test shard you can freely test builds in.
The thing is, CW is the most vulnerable class in PvP, and for one to best survive, it needs:
- lots of HP, some defense, deflect, regen are awesome as well
- lots of control
- lots of burst (i.e. preferably a Perfect Vorpal on a good weapon)
- a good team to hide behind and dish damage
- lots of mobility and awareness
Good TRs will still get you from time to time, but when you will catch them out of stealth and hopefully encounters, it's payback time. And you will lose 90%of the times against those with tenes if you don't have them, and buying them now is not recommended since they will get a nerf.
Anyway, best to read those guides
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deviltyphoon2Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
Some CWs play Renegade, but from what I saw when I met the best CWs in the game, Oppressor is more efficient in terms of survivability and control. There's obviously something to criticize everywhere, that's why there is a test shard you can freely test builds in.
The thing is, CW is the most vulnerable class in PvP, and for one to best survive, it needs:
- lots of HP, some defense, deflect, regen are awesome as well
- lots of control
- lots of burst (i.e. preferably a Perfect Vorpal on a good weapon)
- a good team to hide behind and dish damage
- lots of mobility and awareness
Good TRs will still get you from time to time, but when you will catch them out of stealth and hopefully encounters, it's payback time. And you will lose 90%of the times against those with tenes if you don't have them, and buying them now is not recommended since they will get a nerf.
Great guide! I just started playing this game with some friends and all I wanted was to do massive AoE damage, this build looks perfect. One thing I'm still confused about: what attributes do I add into as I level up? Int/Cha evenly?
Great guide! I just started playing this game with some friends and all I wanted was to do massive AoE damage, this build looks perfect. One thing I'm still confused about: what attributes do I add into as I level up? Int/Cha evenly?
You might want to wait for the thread creator to answer definitely, but as far as I know INT/CHA for level-ups is pretty standard as they are the most important stats for a CW.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
edited November 2013
Yeah, Kerrovitarra did went for INT & CHA, as he stated in a couple of posts back in the day.
If you are going for pure damage, I would make a few suggested changes to your build. First, drop Ray of Frost as one of your at-wills and take Storm Pillar. Next drop Elemental Empowerment and take Destructive Wizardry instead. You will then alternate Storm Pillar and Chilling Cloud in between your encounter abilities and be giving yourself and even more substantial damage boost. I also stuck with Bitter Cold rather than Critical Power as I'm finding my AP generation to be just fine
I run with your Encounter 3 set up and without a doubt it is the highest damage setup that we have.
Could you mayby post a picture of the changes? (powers and feats) if possible
atm im considering dropping 2 arcane enhancement and 1 blinding power to max fight on cause with 3.5k recovery and 25 in and 15 wis the rotation doesnt feel as smooth as before when i had max fight on, its like a second on encounter thats always left when i want to cast them
Comments
I like your spec most from what I've read in this subforum. Seems there's a lot of damage going on with basically the same CC as in more conservative builds, from what I tried on the test shard. So, seeing that I haven't use my free respec yet, I'd like to give it a go. There are a few things I'm not comfortable with though or don't understand what you meant properly.
- shard seems an awesome spell now. But Enfeeblement might be quite necessary to have for single target? I wouldn't want to miss either.
- the 1st chill spec will use Chilling Cloud in PvP as well? Is it effective? Seems very slow, never saw anybody using it.
- in arcane based 2nd spec, at one point you write "CC and MM" for at wills. So one should use both, or use CC for AoE situations and MM for single target? Maybe you can clarify.
- Storm Pillar is kinda inconvenient to use. Is it replaceable in the Arcane spec, without too much of a loss?
- you have Chilling Presence, Evocation, Storm Spell and EotS all taken. I'm using SS and EotS now, and they work nicely. Would it be worth dropping one so I can have my Ray of Enfeeblement? I suppose the one that I see you recommend least is EotS from these.
So in the end, what I am trying to find out is a spec rooted in yours that contains these factors:
- uses CC for AoE trash than maybe switches for MM at single target bosses, or just stick with CC if the dps loss is negligible
- hopefully keeps Enfeeblement, SotEA and EotS
Any advice? Sadly I cannot test specs properly on the test shard because I have nobody to run dungeons with and I'm limited to dummies, and I don't want to waste my free respec, I'm a poor mage
Thanks.
how would u all rate this build? plan to respec it soon
currently, i don't have Opp force and shard. ( i knows its good now)
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=p7j:4c94s:8feb,13e3ih0:60000:bu0zv:b0000&h=0
tiefling CW, int/cha, thaumaturge
I had decided to drop
shield to rank 1, cause seldom use it after the nerf except for "throwing" mob over the ledge
arcane singularity to rank 2, because with Opp force, AS only used to throw in some map
as for passive, i know u like evocation, cause u r using vorpal, and evocation can add flat 15% damage to ur AOE skill
thus, it make your critical damage go higher
but i still prefer using Plague fire, in my normal group, im the one that provide debuff from HV and PF
so i like storm spell and EotS, cause the DOT proc storm spell alot
i usually running dungeon with - (CoI-MASTERY), shard, sudden storm/icy terrain(depends i need more dmg or CC), steal time
i still learn chilling presense as backup, incase they change EotS back to the old version, then 18% will be good. it also good for some boss with chill stacking
as for feat, my doubt will be reaper's touch vs critical power
if AP generation from shard is good, and critical power make it better, we can have more CC and more damage at the same time, rather than spam at-will
different skill have different usage at different situation
so i try to get all skill that is necessary
I have some different view about class features though. Means I don't use Evocation and use instead Chilling Presence(single)/EOFTS(pve)+Storm Spell.
I want to ask now that I get my hand on vorpal enchantment the eye of the storm class feature become mandatory to me to make the most of vorpal right?
I am looking forward for your guide
You found nice mixeup there I'd say. I personally went in the end with a modified Renegade version of grimah 's build and dropped Thaum (with regret). But I am playing with another HV mage with this kerrovitarra's cold build and the DPS is overall the same, very small differences which I attribute to stuff like one of us dying, or missing a few Shard spells on big packs and so on. This allows me to enjoy best of PvP and PvE.
2. First build uses Ray of Frost for PvP.
3. Chilling Cloud for maintaining +5% buff and AM for rest.
4. Yes, take malevolent surge and remove pillar, if you want.
5. Evocation is best for AoE. EotS works mostly on single target and PvP. ChP gives good damage boost for static single target, where you wouldn't run or dodge too much. Storm Spell is must have passive.
6. You still can use Chilling Cloud for single target in arcane spec, but you will lose arcane stacks: +15% damage for MM and RoE (and +duration of RoE).
EotS works better, if you don't have any crit. The more crit you have - the less EotS will give. And it often procs, when it isn't needed in PvE AoE occasions.
Didn't quite understand. Can you show your calculations? I simply can't believe that rene can outDPS thau in AoE. Thau boosts all arcane encounters for 10% and has +15% damage on SotEA, while rene has random proccing NW and +15% additional CS with it. Not to mention +25% and +10% flat damage buffs from thau at-wills.
Thanks for the answers. I already figured out some of these things by myself but it's always very good to have confirmation from more experienced people.
Why did you have to say this? Now I am having second thoughts about going Renegade again
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I am sorry I don't understand something fundamental here.
I understand that with high critical EotS shall be avoided but I thought vorpal just raise the damage with critical severity and not critical chance.
So I thought If I can have 6 second guaranteed critical with EotS it will be a good thing because n.vorpal are doing +25% more damage for 6 seconds.
+10% mitigation debuff applies directly before strike, meaning +10% damage to all arcane spells, iirc.
+15% shard damage and +20% IR damage is personal preference. Damage difference in real fights is barely noticable.
EotS lasts only 2-3 seconds. In my case, it often procs, when I cast SotEA and expires right before boulder hits pack: boulder is slow and there is a delay before cast and ability to hurl it. Same problem for Sudden Storm: projectile speed is slow. EotS is good for DoT damage: DoTs, applied wit EotS buff will crit even after buff expire.
Might I just try to use for those then.
have you respecced your build to include Focused Wizardry (+3% AoE damage per rank) now that (according to nethreldras' tests) Focused Wizardry and Wizard's Wrath works on so many spells, including CoI, SS, IT, OP etc.?
CoI now benefits from the +15% AoE damage from WW/FW, so if we play CoI together with Chill Strike in the spell mastery slot, at least 2/4 encounters (3 if we play shield) benefits from the +15% damage.
Only permastealths that come close to oneshotting people have tenes. To counter tenes you need specific PvP build, specific PvP gear, and preferably tenes yourself.
This build is amazing, but it is however mostly for dishing ungodly AoE damage in dungeons.
So...what build is PVP specific for the wizard? I already read the other pvp build but people always have something to criticize..
Try Tiah's and Blinkbeard's Oppressor guides:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475921-Oppressor-PvP-guide-video-(HD)
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?488121-Blinkbeard-s-PvP-Oppressor-Guide
Some CWs play Renegade, but from what I saw when I met the best CWs in the game, Oppressor is more efficient in terms of survivability and control. There's obviously something to criticize everywhere, that's why there is a test shard you can freely test builds in.
The thing is, CW is the most vulnerable class in PvP, and for one to best survive, it needs:
- lots of HP, some defense, deflect, regen are awesome as well
- lots of control
- lots of burst (i.e. preferably a Perfect Vorpal on a good weapon)
- a good team to hide behind and dish damage
- lots of mobility and awareness
Good TRs will still get you from time to time, but when you will catch them out of stealth and hopefully encounters, it's payback time. And you will lose 90%of the times against those with tenes if you don't have them, and buying them now is not recommended since they will get a nerf.
Anyway, best to read those guides
Ohhhhhh Thank you
You might want to wait for the thread creator to answer definitely, but as far as I know INT/CHA for level-ups is pretty standard as they are the most important stats for a CW.
Could you mayby post a picture of the changes? (powers and feats) if possible