Mark by Tab is faster, lasts likely longer and has a much greater range and can build aggro with Enhanced Mark even when a Guardian Fighter does not attack her target, so she can catch enemies from a distance while kiting other enemies, for example.
But sure, it is no more an ability that is completely unique but it is still superior.
The Guardian Fighter gets Steel Defence and Steel Grace, both giving him good abilities for tanking, but as they are in his paragon path without all Marking abilities, he will be far from being the ultimate tank.
In both pvp and pve the main source of mark comes from enforced threat and threat rush, those mark multiple targets, the tab only marks 1 at a time and it take animation time to do. Maybe if it didnt, that would help.
Since GWFs mark source is threat rush, it marks multiple targets essentially doing the same thing in both pvp and pve.
Compare mark with ANY other tab ability, stealth, divinity, encounter mastery slot?! UNSTOPPABLE?!
Now pretend that a GF can "stealth" with an at will power now. Maybe its not as good as TR stealth because he can do it with tab, but stealth none the less...
You see how dumb that is? Also in order to get those class features you have to give up about 20% damage boost from the combat mastery feature.
Your also purely looking at this from a PVE lens and the ramification is also HUGE for PVP.
Now to mention GWFs can feat points to make them deal 15% more damage to marked targets making their mark ability that much more potent than it is for a GF.
Sadly, I am able to hold aggro even without Threatening Rush.
You and me are able to keep and hold the agro when the TR and your CW have sub par eq/ability, with some competent team mates it's basically impossibile to keep the agro without the mark (and I also have a perfect bronzewood slotted).
The GF already is a basically useless class even when you have the ability to hold PERFECTLY the agro.
With this path you can just be another DPS in the team but without any CC... another version of the Sentinel GWF.
The opinion I got so far is that this path is worth only if you are mainly PvP oriented.
On this aspect they did a decent job since you are goin to be you another version of the sent GFW (with the tactitian path your unstoppable will be the daily feated with Steel defense).
... it's basically impossibile to keep the agro without the mark ...
It is truely almost impossible to keep aggro on every enemy against the best damage dealers, but they should already know what they are doing and if I need so badly aggro, I can use Enforced Threat or Tab and use the Stab At-Will.
In both pvp and pve the main source of mark comes from enforced threat and threat rush, those mark multiple targets, the tab only marks 1 at a time and it take animation time to do. Maybe if it didnt, that would help.
Since GWFs mark source is threat rush, it marks multiple targets essentially doing the same thing in both pvp and pve.
...
Indeed, if Guardian Fighters nowadays try to mark only with Threatening Rush, then the players are making this class useless ...
I have an entire PvP party marked with Tab before you come in range of Threatening Rush and they have to come in range first to quickly get rid of it.
For me the concern is PvE, and the simple truth is I'm not sure I would give up threatening to get WMS. If we got Come and Get it (a staple fighter power in pen and paper) I would easily pass it up. Pull the mob to me Enforce, and then hunker down or cleave depending on the situation, but WMS and Flourish are not effective replacements for 2 crowd control powers (Threatening controls via mark).
Sure with these changes the GF can up their DPS but unless that somehow becomes much closer to the TR/CW that isn't worth it either and feedback above suggests that isn't happening.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
For me the concern is PvE, and the simple truth is I'm not sure I would give up threatening to get WMS. If we got Come and Get it (a staple fighter power in pen and paper) I would easily pass it up. Pull the mob to me Enforce, and then hunker down or cleave depending on the situation, but WMS and Flourish are not effective replacements for 2 crowd control powers (Threatening controls via mark).
Sure with these changes the GF can up their DPS but unless that somehow becomes much closer to the TR/CW that isn't worth it either and feedback above suggests that isn't happening.
Hey, we can still stick to our old paragon path! No need to worry.
I was unable till now to test whether the new build is somewhat viable in keeping aggro of enemy groups as I did not run in a party in a dungeon myself; Weapon Master's Strike gives a nice debuff on a big area but I am not sure if it is enough to help in PvE group fighting in terms of keeping aggro.
Flourish is sadly a single target Encounter, so it could be replacet by Enforced Threat and maybe Into the Fray could be used for group buffing and Lunging Strike or another Encounter could be useful. Speaking of Into the Fray, it is somewhat useful for Guardian Fighters with the Timeless Hero set as it activates the set bonus for every ally affected.
As for the damage aspect: it is ok but I think this could be some kind of another tank with more focus on damage rather than a real transformation into a damage dealer, but we have to compare it directly to new and old builds of dedicated damage dealers.
I have an epic GWF and (now) GF, I'm well aware of the functions of the powers in question. As it stands my GWF should respec to Vanguard and my GF should remain Vanguard. I guess this reflects 2 issues; 1) I feel that Vanguard is a superior choice for my GWF and 2) I feel that Swordmaster is an inferior choice for my GF.
Yes the use of should is in the meaning of necassary not possible.
Of course I may not actually change the GWF so that it keeps a different play experience to my GF (which is why I have 1 of every class), but from a purely mechanical perspective I feel that would be best
Changing the GWF to Iron Vanguard entirely fixes the issues it has with Tanking just via Threatening Rush, the benefits in CC it gains for tanking are just gravy. (Rush, Surge, Come andGet it, Not So Fast, IBS, repeat with Slam stacking easily). Now you have targets marked and dps to create threat and you have hit multiple CC effects to keep things where you put them (until the cleric/cw nlasts them away *sigh*).
In contrast with the GF going Swordmaster you loose ready marking (Threatening Rush) and a major CC power (Surge) both of which comtribute significantly to the ability to tank mobs (they ate not the sole factors of course) and these are replaced with effectively low DPS single target with weak CC and a slow weak debuff AoE. Its just not enough to hold aggro as GWFs can hapilly explain. But give Swordmaster for GFs Come and Get it to replace Surge and some sort of AoE marking at will (or even better a passive marker like the PnP Guardian gets) and that will change really fast.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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kolbe11Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Finding that there is absolutely no reason to change my PvE GF to Swordmaster... Iron Vanguard is still the only viable path for a PvE GF... Kinda feel cheated on this now.
Swordmaster - Increased DPS @ a LOSS of threat generation and tanking ability.
"It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
Beleave me, i really don't like to be like a whinig man and to say again this, but i'm really disappointed on what devps are doing for GF: nothing! All bugs are still there and patch after patch they fix and rework things, but everytime nothing is done for GF.
Let's think about new paragon path up coming in module 2. Why the same path of GWF? It means the devps don't want to spend time for GF and so they recycled something they did for another class. It will cause a lot of problems: changing something on GWF, for example for balancing purpose, will affect also GF. Why GF have to be suffer any modification on an another class?
I really like the GF, but I'm really sad about the absolute lack of consideration devps are showing about GF. Of course, it is possible that i'm wrong, and i hope SOON devps will show me they love also the GF, but with facts, not words.
0
ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
changing something on GWF, for example for balancing purpose, will affect also GF.
Not necessarily, depends on how they'll be treated. Also, Swordmaster GF has been in existence even before Sentinel, IIRC.
Not necessarily, depends on how they'll be treated. Also, Swordmaster GF has been in existence even before Sentinel, IIRC.
Also, you're exaggerating.
About the exaggerating, I'm not so sure on that.
I play a GWF as a alt to my DC and the little I've played on the test server has got me to wondering -
As things stand now, a GWF seems to be able to do the same job, and maybe do it better, then a GF. With the changes made to GWF, they are a lot more tanky then they used to be and the GWF tank builds DPs has been crazy buffed. While the GF got...*$%+&#*
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kolbe11Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That update was to help mitigate the fact that other classes generated as much threat as GF's. It was also during a time when DC's were still getting HAMSTER by mobs for dropping AS.
Threat on the live server is fine right now and threat on the preview is fine as well... However, threat is NOT kept or generated the same when a GF has the Swordmaster path as its skills feel as though they LACK additional threat generation. I can run FH on both servers, but it is only on the Live server where my GF is running IV that I keep every mob... Swordmaster? I lose about 20% of them... It is just not a PvE path for GF's.
"It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
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truelokasterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
I play a GWF as a alt to my DC and the little I've played on the test server has got me to wondering -
As things stand now, a GWF seems to be able to do the same job, and maybe do it better, then a GF. With the changes made to GWF, they are a lot more tanky then they used to be and the GWF tank builds DPs has been crazy buffed. While the GF got...*$%+&#*
First, I do think that the GWF has mor to benefit from the skills of the GF than otherwise, but I can't seem to find the reazon for all the complains.
Even with Threatening Rush, Frontline Surge, and Indomitable Strength, just Trample of the Fallen actually increases Threat for the GWF, while the GF still has other powers and Feats that will help them to keep aggro.
I really don't think the OP's point is reasonable or backed up by data.
The GF remains an extremely solid and generally forgiving class to play. Their survivability is fantastic, they're excellent utility players, and they can be specced to do significant damage also. A well-played GF makes everything easier for a party and keeps the squishies alive for a lot longer.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
think there will be a lot of gf who will use new path steel blitz+wms+2xpower from con gf will be better dps btw they did said they will fix Frontline Surge ap gain so pve gf will be swordmasters while only pvp will be iron
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Even with 1/3 of the AP gain, FS is better. Prone's three mobs, very useful for stopping or interrupting mob abilities, with moderate damage. Threatening rush...PvE marking staple, mark what you can with tab, then charge in an keep everything marked with rush. Use Threatening rush + Enforced Threat to pull entire packs off a DC or CW.
I still don't see what possible advantages Swordmaster brings over Iron vanguard in PvE...
Flourish...useless compared to Griffons Wrath.
WMS...I need to give up my 2nd at will to use it. Very situational, I'd probably using Threatening rush more often and still use Tide of Iron on bosses. Not very useful.
Crescendo...it's a drop in replacement for Indomitable Strike, and like IS, not much use in PvE.
Steel Blitz...sounds nice, especially with cleave. Could be an alternative to Trample the Fallen. Little change.
Steel Defence...would be great paired with Fighter's Recovery if it provided CC immunity. Currently only useful for turtle tanks.
Steel Grace...worthless.
Stunning Flourish...worthless
Staying power...not bad if you're really using WMS a lot, otherwise...worthless.
Even with 1/3 of the AP gain, FS is better. Prone's three mobs, very useful for stopping or interrupting mob abilities, with moderate damage. Threatening rush...PvE marking staple, mark what you can with tab, then charge in an keep everything marked with rush. Use Threatening rush + Enforced Threat to pull entire packs off a DC or CW.
I still don't see what possible advantages swordmaster brings over Iron vanguard...
Tactician can be nearly impossible to kill with that. AP gain from taking hits = daily use = Steel Defense fire = immunity to damage. But the other threes don't have a benefit from this.
Maybe the purpose of the new paragon path isn't to provide a new tanking method for Guardian Fighters along with all the threat they have in Iron Vanguard. Maybe the purpose of it is to allow players to create more damage oriented Guardian Fighters, that put greater emphasis on their swords than their shields.
The new path works just fine in PvE for me, boosting my damage but at the same time making me less effective at tanking. This is pretty much exactly as I expected as the path was taken from a less tanking oriented class.
If all the new path did was pretty much mimic the utility of the old it wouldn't be or feel all that new. This option provides the ability for one to choose which they will focus on when choosing their paragon path, better tanking or better damage.
In my opinion new path for GF is useless. Iron Vanguard is better for defensive, and offensive tank. Frontline Surge and Cleav get more damage from Fluorish and this new at-will.
GF need some power like TR - Impossible to Catch. Need more power can get him immune and better scale of defense. It's very bad to TR can hit tank for over 20k. Generally TR probably is the most overpower class now.
I'm also concern about nerf Frontlin Surge, GF hasn't more good power and this is one of few.
P.S.
Sorry for any language mistakes. English is not my first language.
At its core this is a GF nerf. Reducing effectiveness of existing GF skills while offering nothing of equal or better value in return. Its very disappointing.
At its core this is a GF nerf. Reducing effectiveness of existing GF skills while offering nothing of equal or better value in return. Its very disappointing.
yeah but at least they said they will do it while they stalth nerfed ap gain off gwf long time ago but i wish i know what is logic in it if cw can use daily every 10 sec why fighters cant and our dailys can hit only five while cw 15
Howdy!
The upcoming Shadowmantle module introduces new Paragon paths for all of the existing classes.
We expect a lot of great feedback so we're setting up these threads to keep it more specific.
We'll be stopping by these threads everyday so keep your feedback coming in!
Guardian Fighter - Swordmaster
Displaying their shared fighter heritage, Guardian fighters gain access to the Swordmaster path, which gives them additional offense and control options.
Paragon paths contain 1 Atwill, 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, 3 Class Features, and 3 Feats.
We dont want that tree. Thats the bottom line. It offers nothing imho... plz consider this. The GF community doesnt want that tree.
Big expansion, all excited for new paragon path... But for GFs its same ole same ole? Frankly i feel slighted if this is our new class content.
it's pure laziness on dev's part this "new" paragon path brings nothing to the table i have tested swordmaster and slotted knights challenge went into flourish then bullrush as a conqueror your better off just staying iron vanguard and keeping trample the fallen the dmg with swordmaster is so small it's just not worth loseing all our key abilities
please devs think of something better than this garbage i bet any gf that takes swordmaster will instantly regret it
I really don't think the OP's point is reasonable or backed up by data.
The GF remains an extremely solid and generally forgiving class to play. Their survivability is fantastic, they're excellent utility players, and they can be specced to do significant damage also. A well-played GF makes everything easier for a party and keeps the squishies alive for a lot longer.
You really didn't understand what the OP (me) is saying. I say:
1) GF is bugged (it is true and independent to every one's thinking)
2) Patch after patch GF remain bugged (it is true fact). The only fixed bug was that on griffon wrath but only because it was a general bug in common with other classes.
3) Because it seems that devps don't spend time to improve/
fix GF, i was asking to myself if they hate GF. Now i see that they didn't spend time on GF also in module 2, so for me this is the proof that they archived GF as finished (i say ended, dead, to forget).
4) I think also that recycled they did only benefit GWF improoving it as a better tank (please notice that, at same time, they will change queue system and GF or DC are not required anymore in a party, this is another step to kick out GF from game).
5) I think same path for two classes will cause balancing problems with GF that will suffer changes on GWF.
Now let's comment you words: the fact that peope can be able to well play a GF don,t means that it can be bugged. I
am a GF and i want fight against mobs, not against bugs. Everithing in this game is growing, improving, but not GF that is forgotten by devps and, worse, partially fused with anothet class loosing it's true identity. It will come the day (i really hope never) when the devps will thik: why keep two classes that are in conpetiton, have same paragon path and do tha same things? let's "rework" ( fusing them onto one).
So, noticing the lack of consideration on GF and the absence of positive signals from devps, Iam seriously warried about tje futute of GF that is the class that i choose to play this game.
You really didn't understand what the OP (me) is saying. I say:
1) GF is bugged (it is true and independent to every one's thinking)
2) Patch after patch GF remain bugged (it is true fact). The only fixed bug was that on griffon wrath but only because it was a general bug in common with other classes.
3) Because it seems that devps don't spend time to improve/
fix GF, i was asking to myself if they hate GF. Now i see that they didn't spend time on GF also in module 2, so for me this is the proof that they archived GF as finished (i say ended, dead, to forget).
4) I think also that recycled they did only benefit GWF improoving it as a better tank (please notice that, at same time, they will change queue system and GF or DC are not required anymore in a party, this is another step to kick out GF from game).
5) I think same path for two classes will cause balancing problems with GF that will suffer changes on GWF.
Now let's comment you words: the fact that peope can be able to well play a GF don,t means that it can be bugged. I
am a GF and i want fight against mobs, not against bugs. Everithing in this game is growing, improving, but not GF that is forgotten by devps and, worse, partially fused with anothet class loosing it's true identity. It will come the day (i really hope never) when the devps will thik: why keep two classes that are in conpetiton, have same paragon path and do tha same things? let's "rework" ( fusing them onto one).
So, noticing the lack of consideration on GF and the absence of positive signals from devps, Iam seriously warried about tje futute of
GF that is the cladd thay i choose to play this game.
yes they fix buggs at fighters classes they allredy "fixed" ap gain of gwf and next one who will recive fix is gf.....while broken op cws still did not get "fix" on anything and they are main reson for fail of fighters if they would know to nerf cws fighters would have some spots in team
they nerfed dungeons since dc or tanks wont be needed?
yes they fix buggs at fighters classes they allredy "fixed" ap gain of gwf and next one who will recive fix is gf.....while broken op cws still did not get "fix" on anything and they are main reson for fail of fighters if they would know to nerf cws fighters would have some spots in team
they nerfed dungeons since dc or tanks wont be needed?
they fixed gwf, ok but i don't care about gwf i'm speaking about GF. Unfixed bugs are only a part of the problem, reclycled paragon path is another part, general lacks as I said in the previous post is another part again, people like you and rabbinicus ( please dont flame, i have nothing against you two, you are just an example) who post wrong things or things not in theme are another parts because move the point of discussion to wrong poit of view...
1. You must prepare new, total new paragon patch for GF not this from GWF.
2. You must improve power for tank's, not nerf. Keep Frontline Surge and Grifon Warth in peace.
3. GWF and GF now are the two classes which need the most improvement to be better for party.
People are taking a DPS path and trying to jam it into the tanking role, then complaining it can't tank.
People take the tanking path for GWF and tank with it and it works great! yay!
Quit trying to tank with a DPS path. You are picking a completely *DIFFERENT* path for your fighter, that of a DPS person, NOT a tank person. You are stepping into the shoes of the GWF as a tank/damage dealer hybrid.
(You is subjective and not aimed at any one person.)
Personally, from my assessment, both sides are getting nice benefits. People are freaking out at new and trying to make the 'new' fit the 'old' instead of looking at it as a completely new thing. I've enjoyed the changes and I look forward to trying it out further.
Comments
In both pvp and pve the main source of mark comes from enforced threat and threat rush, those mark multiple targets, the tab only marks 1 at a time and it take animation time to do. Maybe if it didnt, that would help.
Since GWFs mark source is threat rush, it marks multiple targets essentially doing the same thing in both pvp and pve.
Compare mark with ANY other tab ability, stealth, divinity, encounter mastery slot?! UNSTOPPABLE?!
Now pretend that a GF can "stealth" with an at will power now. Maybe its not as good as TR stealth because he can do it with tab, but stealth none the less...
You see how dumb that is? Also in order to get those class features you have to give up about 20% damage boost from the combat mastery feature.
Your also purely looking at this from a PVE lens and the ramification is also HUGE for PVP.
Now to mention GWFs can feat points to make them deal 15% more damage to marked targets making their mark ability that much more potent than it is for a GF.
You and me are able to keep and hold the agro when the TR and your CW have sub par eq/ability, with some competent team mates it's basically impossibile to keep the agro without the mark (and I also have a perfect bronzewood slotted).
The GF already is a basically useless class even when you have the ability to hold PERFECTLY the agro.
With this path you can just be another DPS in the team but without any CC... another version of the Sentinel GWF.
The opinion I got so far is that this path is worth only if you are mainly PvP oriented.
On this aspect they did a decent job since you are goin to be you another version of the sent GFW (with the tactitian path your unstoppable will be the daily feated with Steel defense).
Enforced Threat enforces aggro and marks multiple targets by itself -- no need for a response, I guess.
It is truely almost impossible to keep aggro on every enemy against the best damage dealers, but they should already know what they are doing and if I need so badly aggro, I can use Enforced Threat or Tab and use the Stab At-Will.
Indeed, if Guardian Fighters nowadays try to mark only with Threatening Rush, then the players are making this class useless ...
I have an entire PvP party marked with Tab before you come in range of Threatening Rush and they have to come in range first to quickly get rid of it.
Sure with these changes the GF can up their DPS but unless that somehow becomes much closer to the TR/CW that isn't worth it either and feedback above suggests that isn't happening.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Hey, we can still stick to our old paragon path! No need to worry.
I was unable till now to test whether the new build is somewhat viable in keeping aggro of enemy groups as I did not run in a party in a dungeon myself; Weapon Master's Strike gives a nice debuff on a big area but I am not sure if it is enough to help in PvE group fighting in terms of keeping aggro.
Flourish is sadly a single target Encounter, so it could be replacet by Enforced Threat and maybe Into the Fray could be used for group buffing and Lunging Strike or another Encounter could be useful. Speaking of Into the Fray, it is somewhat useful for Guardian Fighters with the Timeless Hero set as it activates the set bonus for every ally affected.
As for the damage aspect: it is ok but I think this could be some kind of another tank with more focus on damage rather than a real transformation into a damage dealer, but we have to compare it directly to new and old builds of dedicated damage dealers.
Yes the use of should is in the meaning of necassary not possible.
Of course I may not actually change the GWF so that it keeps a different play experience to my GF (which is why I have 1 of every class), but from a purely mechanical perspective I feel that would be best
Changing the GWF to Iron Vanguard entirely fixes the issues it has with Tanking just via Threatening Rush, the benefits in CC it gains for tanking are just gravy. (Rush, Surge, Come andGet it, Not So Fast, IBS, repeat with Slam stacking easily). Now you have targets marked and dps to create threat and you have hit multiple CC effects to keep things where you put them (until the cleric/cw nlasts them away *sigh*).
In contrast with the GF going Swordmaster you loose ready marking (Threatening Rush) and a major CC power (Surge) both of which comtribute significantly to the ability to tank mobs (they ate not the sole factors of course) and these are replaced with effectively low DPS single target with weak CC and a slow weak debuff AoE. Its just not enough to hold aggro as GWFs can hapilly explain. But give Swordmaster for GFs Come and Get it to replace Surge and some sort of AoE marking at will (or even better a passive marker like the PnP Guardian gets) and that will change really fast.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Swordmaster - Increased DPS @ a LOSS of threat generation and tanking ability.
Let's think about new paragon path up coming in module 2. Why the same path of GWF? It means the devps don't want to spend time for GF and so they recycled something they did for another class. It will cause a lot of problems: changing something on GWF, for example for balancing purpose, will affect also GF. Why GF have to be suffer any modification on an another class?
I really like the GF, but I'm really sad about the absolute lack of consideration devps are showing about GF. Of course, it is possible that i'm wrong, and i hope SOON devps will show me they love also the GF, but with facts, not words.
Not necessarily, depends on how they'll be treated. Also, Swordmaster GF has been in existence even before Sentinel, IIRC.
Also, you're exaggerating.
About the exaggerating, I'm not so sure on that.
I play a GWF as a alt to my DC and the little I've played on the test server has got me to wondering -
As things stand now, a GWF seems to be able to do the same job, and maybe do it better, then a GF. With the changes made to GWF, they are a lot more tanky then they used to be and the GWF tank builds DPs has been crazy buffed. While the GF got...*$%+&#*
Threat on the live server is fine right now and threat on the preview is fine as well... However, threat is NOT kept or generated the same when a GF has the Swordmaster path as its skills feel as though they LACK additional threat generation. I can run FH on both servers, but it is only on the Live server where my GF is running IV that I keep every mob... Swordmaster? I lose about 20% of them... It is just not a PvE path for GF's.
First, I do think that the GWF has mor to benefit from the skills of the GF than otherwise, but I can't seem to find the reazon for all the complains.
Even with Threatening Rush, Frontline Surge, and Indomitable Strength, just Trample of the Fallen actually increases Threat for the GWF, while the GF still has other powers and Feats that will help them to keep aggro.
The GF remains an extremely solid and generally forgiving class to play. Their survivability is fantastic, they're excellent utility players, and they can be specced to do significant damage also. A well-played GF makes everything easier for a party and keeps the squishies alive for a lot longer.
I still don't see what possible advantages Swordmaster brings over Iron vanguard in PvE...
Flourish...useless compared to Griffons Wrath.
WMS...I need to give up my 2nd at will to use it. Very situational, I'd probably using Threatening rush more often and still use Tide of Iron on bosses. Not very useful.
Crescendo...it's a drop in replacement for Indomitable Strike, and like IS, not much use in PvE.
Steel Blitz...sounds nice, especially with cleave. Could be an alternative to Trample the Fallen. Little change.
Steel Defence...would be great paired with Fighter's Recovery if it provided CC immunity. Currently only useful for turtle tanks.
Steel Grace...worthless.
Stunning Flourish...worthless
Staying power...not bad if you're really using WMS a lot, otherwise...worthless.
Grim Promise...Worthless.
Tactician can be nearly impossible to kill with that. AP gain from taking hits = daily use = Steel Defense fire = immunity to damage. But the other threes don't have a benefit from this.
The new path works just fine in PvE for me, boosting my damage but at the same time making me less effective at tanking. This is pretty much exactly as I expected as the path was taken from a less tanking oriented class.
If all the new path did was pretty much mimic the utility of the old it wouldn't be or feel all that new. This option provides the ability for one to choose which they will focus on when choosing their paragon path, better tanking or better damage.
GF need some power like TR - Impossible to Catch. Need more power can get him immune and better scale of defense. It's very bad to TR can hit tank for over 20k. Generally TR probably is the most overpower class now.
I'm also concern about nerf Frontlin Surge, GF hasn't more good power and this is one of few.
P.S.
Sorry for any language mistakes. English is not my first language.
yeah but at least they said they will do it while they stalth nerfed ap gain off gwf long time ago but i wish i know what is logic in it if cw can use daily every 10 sec why fighters cant and our dailys can hit only five while cw 15
We dont want that tree. Thats the bottom line. It offers nothing imho... plz consider this. The GF community doesnt want that tree.
Big expansion, all excited for new paragon path... But for GFs its same ole same ole? Frankly i feel slighted if this is our new class content.
please devs think of something better than this garbage i bet any gf that takes swordmaster will instantly regret it
You really didn't understand what the OP (me) is saying. I say:
1) GF is bugged (it is true and independent to every one's thinking)
2) Patch after patch GF remain bugged (it is true fact). The only fixed bug was that on griffon wrath but only because it was a general bug in common with other classes.
3) Because it seems that devps don't spend time to improve/
fix GF, i was asking to myself if they hate GF. Now i see that they didn't spend time on GF also in module 2, so for me this is the proof that they archived GF as finished (i say ended, dead, to forget).
4) I think also that recycled they did only benefit GWF improoving it as a better tank (please notice that, at same time, they will change queue system and GF or DC are not required anymore in a party, this is another step to kick out GF from game).
5) I think same path for two classes will cause balancing problems with GF that will suffer changes on GWF.
Now let's comment you words: the fact that peope can be able to well play a GF don,t means that it can be bugged. I
am a GF and i want fight against mobs, not against bugs. Everithing in this game is growing, improving, but not GF that is forgotten by devps and, worse, partially fused with anothet class loosing it's true identity. It will come the day (i really hope never) when the devps will thik: why keep two classes that are in conpetiton, have same paragon path and do tha same things? let's "rework" ( fusing them onto one).
So, noticing the lack of consideration on GF and the absence of positive signals from devps, Iam seriously warried about tje futute of GF that is the class that i choose to play this game.
yes they fix buggs at fighters classes they allredy "fixed" ap gain of gwf and next one who will recive fix is gf.....while broken op cws still did not get "fix" on anything and they are main reson for fail of fighters if they would know to nerf cws fighters would have some spots in team
they nerfed dungeons since dc or tanks wont be needed?
they fixed gwf, ok but i don't care about gwf i'm speaking about GF. Unfixed bugs are only a part of the problem, reclycled paragon path is another part, general lacks as I said in the previous post is another part again, people like you and rabbinicus ( please dont flame, i have nothing against you two, you are just an example) who post wrong things or things not in theme are another parts because move the point of discussion to wrong poit of view...
p.s.
what are "cws fighters"?
1) you will nerf frontline surge
2) you remived 1 stack from griffon wrath (someone wrote it has only 2 staks)
and of course we have to consider the BIG nerf ocoming with module 2. Greetings, your plans to destroy GF is doing very well.
1. You must prepare new, total new paragon patch for GF not this from GWF.
2. You must improve power for tank's, not nerf. Keep Frontline Surge and Grifon Warth in peace.
3. GWF and GF now are the two classes which need the most improvement to be better for party.
People are taking a DPS path and trying to jam it into the tanking role, then complaining it can't tank.
People take the tanking path for GWF and tank with it and it works great! yay!
Quit trying to tank with a DPS path. You are picking a completely *DIFFERENT* path for your fighter, that of a DPS person, NOT a tank person. You are stepping into the shoes of the GWF as a tank/damage dealer hybrid.
(You is subjective and not aimed at any one person.)
Personally, from my assessment, both sides are getting nice benefits. People are freaking out at new and trying to make the 'new' fit the 'old' instead of looking at it as a completely new thing. I've enjoyed the changes and I look forward to trying it out further.