The real issue with Swordmaster for GF is it isn't gaining any nice synergies with the new abilities the same way a GWF gains some really, really nice synergies with Iron Vanguard.
With Iron Vanguard, a GWF gains
-the ability to mark at will, basically gaining a GFs tab ability for free. This probably speaks to how bad a GFs Tab ability is though.
-another gap closer, making their already exceptional mobility even better.
-feat synergy with mark, giving an additional 15% damage to marked targets on top of mark's 8% damage.
-another tanking ability for pve and pvp in Ferocious Reaction, and since defensive GWFs tend to have more HPs, this works even better for them.
-more ability to use prone with frontline + trample the fallen.
It loses
-Weapon Master Strike, it's best AoE damage ability by a mile thanks to sprint cancelling.
As GF, you gain with Swordmaster
-Steel Defense which could have some exceptional synergy with GF's ability to use Daily's more often thanks to block and could be really good with a tactician build.
-Weapon Master Strike, but not nearly as good because you can't animation cancel like a GWF can.
-Crescendo, a very nice high damage attack for pvp, but arguable for DPS. Crescendo also scales horribly with power.
You lose:
-your ability to AoE Mark
-a lot of mobility which is a huge issue in PvP
-15% damage gain from Trample the Fallen (which hurts GFs more than it helps GWFs since GFs have more recovery to use encounters more often and use dailies a lot more)
I really think it highlights how bad a GFs tab ability is though when GWFs basically get it for free. There isn't any power GFs have that can replicate Unstoppable.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Bug: At-Will: Aggravating strike Don't proc any weapon enhancement(i tested it only with fire, but still other posted that they tested it too with other and they still don't proc on this skill).
Bug: At-Will: Aggravating strike Don't proc a stack of Iron Guard(last Feat of protector tree skill).
Bug: At-Will: Shield Slam Don't proc any weapon enhancement(i tested it only with fire, but still other posted that they tested it too with other and they still don't proc on this skill).
Bug: At-Will: Shield Slam Don't proc a stack of Iron Guard(last Feat of protector tree skill).
Bug: Daily: Terrifying Impact Don't do damage to mobs, which get black holed with Arcane Singularity. Only cc-immun mobs(like Icegolems or Bosses) get hurt then.
Bug: Encounter:Anvil of Doom Bug out on mobs, if you stand to high to them.
Bug: Encounter:Flourish It hit the nearest target without facing/targeting with mouse. This isn't plausible as it isn't flagged as target-centered power.(simple need a target to use it) Change it to make it work like other non-target-locked powers or change the flag of it!
Bug: Mechanic:Mark Break without taken hit or duration of 20s run out. It's maybe skill or debuff dependent that this occur. Happened to blocked attacks too.
Bug: Utility:Guard Don't prevent of some CC. They go through it.
Second some Attacks consume ~40% with a single attack even without it's possible(normally it max drain ~18% and second my shield capacity is more than 5k and the blocked one was 2k).
Bug: Daily: Crescendo As listed in thread need to be answered.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited November 2013
My main issue with this path is that GF only have 2 AoE encounter powers in their entire skill selection, and one of them is Frontline Surge. It would be useful as a DPS path... if it came with an AoE encounter power to replace the one lost.
It does look very fun for a tactician in PvP, but again, the loss of Trample the Fallen for that build is kinda brutal.
Bug: Daily: Terrifying Impact Don't do damage to mobs, which get black holed with Arcane Singularity. Only cc-immun mobs(like Icegolems or Bosses) get hurt then.
This is not a bug, it is Arcane Singularity mechanics. Encounters and dailies don't hits targets sucked in the black hole. Wizard's at-will though pass. So does Repel (an exception i guess).
This is not a bug, it is Arcane Singularity mechanics. Encounters and dailies don't hits targets sucked in the black hole. Wizard's at-will though pass. So does Repel (an exception i guess).
I don't know what you exact mean. I don't mean the last step of AS(lift up of mobs and explode), i mean the whole AS effect. From begin of AS, TI can't do damage. Other dailies and encounter and at-will function. So it's not your maybe mention moment of AS finish.
One thing I would like to point out that eveyone is overlooking is that the Guardian and the Great Weapon are both Fighters. In the PnP version this is the way the trees have always worked. They are not two separate classes, they are a sub-set of the same class and therefore have always had access to these trees. The Devs are not being lazy, they bringing the Fighters in line with the original game. They are not trying to make the GF into a GWF or vis/versa. They are developing the Fighter class, not a GWF or GF class. You need to reset your thinking.
One thing I would like to point out that eveyone is overlooking is that the Guardian and the Great Weapon are both Fighters. In the PnP version this is the way the trees have always worked. They are not two separate classes, they are a sub-set of the same class and therefore have always had access to these trees. The Devs are not being lazy, they bringing the Fighters in line with the original game. They are not trying to make the GF into a GWF or vis/versa. They are developing the Fighter class, not a GWF or GF class. You need to reset your thinking.
Sorry, but i think you are wroting a lot of sonsense. This is a videogame and there are two separate fighter classes. For example they have different gear (I won a gwf wep in a "greed" roll, BoP, and must salvage it couse I cannot sell, cannot use ecc...), different mechanics (gwf doesnt have shield, but several "i'm total immune to everything" power) and so on... They are two different classes and the developers are fusing them, and this is resulting in a good thing for GWF and terrible very bad thing for GF.
One thing I would like to point out that eveyone is overlooking is that the Guardian and the Great Weapon are both Fighters. In the PnP version this is the way the trees have always worked. They are not two separate classes, they are a sub-set of the same class and therefore have always had access to these trees. The Devs are not being lazy, they bringing the Fighters in line with the original game. They are not trying to make the GF into a GWF or vis/versa. They are developing the Fighter class, not a GWF or GF class. You need to reset your thinking.
Since we are bringing up PnP then im sure you wouldn't mind applying some rules, like AC hit or miss and shield wielding fighters that do BOTH incredibly high melee dmg and have the highest AC. Not to mention a tabletop or D&D GF would have 3 times the health of a wizard and twice the health of a rogue.... i can go on, .. and on if requested..
People are taking a DPS path and trying to jam it into the tanking role, then complaining it can't tank.
People take the tanking path for GWF and tank with it and it works great! yay!
Quit trying to tank with a DPS path. You are picking a completely *DIFFERENT* path for your fighter, that of a DPS person, NOT a tank person. You are stepping into the shoes of the GWF as a tank/damage dealer hybrid.
(You is subjective and not aimed at any one person.)
Personally, from my assessment, both sides are getting nice benefits. People are freaking out at new and trying to make the 'new' fit the 'old' instead of looking at it as a completely new thing. I've enjoyed the changes and I look forward to trying it out further.
Well, since D&D fighters are both dps and defensive units im not understanding at all. D&D fighters do 2 things, high melee dmg and high defense while sporting the highest health.... a fighter that doesn't do damage inst a fighter man.. tanks aren't meat shields only...they do both take one away (or reduce one to the point of irrelevance) and its no longer a fighter.
Since we are bringing up PnP then im sure you wouldn't mind applying some rules, like AC hit or miss and shield wielding fighters that do BOTH incredibly high melee dmg and have the highest AC. Not to mention a tabletop or D&D GF would have 3 times the health of a wizard and twice the health of a rogue.... i can go on, .. and on if requested..
I wouldn't mind at all. It would be great in my opinion if those rules were implemented. We have neutered the all of classes far too much in order appease the "they must balanced crowd".
I wouldn't mind at all. It would be great in my opinion if those rules were implemented. We have neutered the all of classes far too much in order appease the "they must balanced crowd".
Agreed, the balance obsession has prevented this game from growing into something that would/could have lasting value. Balance has no place in any form of D&D, ever, for any reason.
The constant reasons for it are all developer related. Its great for the player and awful for the devs. Heard that repeatedly since CB. The fact that players can have no power over the game whatsoever is why it wont ever have lasting value.
Well, its an mmo, it must be balanced i hear all the time. Correct me if im wrong but isnt mmo short for mass multiplayer online? Which means what? Means its an online game that lots of people play.. thats it. The stigma that an mmo has to run a certain way by previous existing standards simply shows the inability for devs to think outside the box.
You can't have a MMO game that includes PvP without some attempt at balance, so there is no point trying to climb aboard the 'Neverwinter should have classes balanced along pnp lines' train.
You also can't expect a game inspired by a turn-based rpg to duplicate the mechanics of it when the inspired game is in no way a turn-based MMORPG, but is instead action based.
The change in game medium and style requires changes from pnp D&D.
Well, since D&D fighters are both dps and defensive units im not understanding at all. D&D fighters do 2 things, high melee dmg and high defense while sporting the highest health.... a fighter that doesn't do damage inst a fighter man.. tanks aren't meat shields only...they do both take one away (or reduce one to the point of irrelevance) and its no longer a fighter.
Just to be ckear: in this game the rogue deal high melee damage, not the tank.
Just to be ckear: in this game the rogue deal high melee damage, not the tank.
Forget PnP, there's 15+ D&D VIDEO GAMES that dont use class balancing, some of them online games and some of those have PvP. No matter how you cut it its only inexcusable.
So in every D&D game ive ever played tanks do high damage as well as rogues.... so "clearly" that needs fixin asap.
You can't have a MMO game that includes PvP without some attempt at balance, so there is no point trying to climb aboard the 'Neverwinter should have classes balanced along pnp lines' train.
You also can't expect a game inspired by a turn-based rpg to duplicate the mechanics of it when the inspired game is in no way a turn-based MMORPG, but is instead action based.
The change in game medium and style requires changes from pnp D&D.
Forget PnP, there's 15+ D&D VIDEO GAMES that dont use class balancing, some of them online games and some of those have PvP. No matter how you cut it its only inexcusable.
Regardless, the GF, along with every other class is underpowered, If indeed these changes do go through, and i have no doubt that they will. It will render the GF far less functional.
Might i suggest reducing the cooldowns on the GF abilities that are getting axed.. give something in return, something of equal value. The swordmaster tree is well, terrible and the devs know as much. Reduce the cooldown on frontline surge and griffons wrath.... something. GF going backwards lol. This is supposed to be an exciting module for ALL.
Forget PnP, there's 15+ D&D VIDEO GAMES that dont use class balancing, some of them online games and some of those have PvP. No matter how you cut it its only inexcusable.
Regardless, the GF, along with every other class is underpowered, If indeed these changes do go through, and i have no doubt that they will. It will render the GF far less functional.
Might i suggest reducing the cooldowns on the GF abilities that are getting axed.. give something in return, something of equal value. The swordmaster tree is well, terrible and the devs know as much. Reduce the cooldown on frontline surge and griffons wrath.... something. GF going backwards lol. This is supposed to be an exciting module for ALL.
The thing is.. GF isn't losing their other path. They're just getting a new one. So... if you really dislike it? don't use it.
This is for those who can take new tools and do something with it. I don't see them taking lunging strike. So it's not like 'all' mobility is gone.
Also, this isn't pnp. So no, I don't consider it relevant. I have played other D&D based MMOs (like DDO) and guess what? they DO have balance... in this game everything hits hard. It's just different styles and how they interact with one another.
0
truelokasterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
People are taking a DPS path and trying to jam it into the tanking role, then complaining it can't tank.
People take the tanking path for GWF and tank with it and it works great! yay!
Quit trying to tank with a DPS path. You are picking a completely *DIFFERENT* path for your fighter, that of a DPS person, NOT a tank person. You are stepping into the shoes of the GWF as a tank/damage dealer hybrid.
(You is subjective and not aimed at any one person.)
Personally, from my assessment, both sides are getting nice benefits. People are freaking out at new and trying to make the 'new' fit the 'old' instead of looking at it as a completely new thing. I've enjoyed the changes and I look forward to trying it out further.
My 2 cents?
The Conqueror bonus is just to good to give up.
I have 3 level 60 decent geared Guardian Fighters. My idea was to have each one in a different Paragon Path and they were for a while.
2 of them are now Conqueror, and I manage to tank decently with both. It happens that with the basic threat Heroic feat boost + using the right powers, I'm able to tank better than with them traited Tactician or Protector due to the high damage given by having 6k (or more) power and still having 5.8K Defense and 4k+ deflection.
Honestly, I agree that a Guardian Fighter is first and foremost a FIGHTERand it should have a decent amount of power, since it is the actual Strength attribute in this game. having a fully armored tank that hits like a little girl is not epic and not something that most players expect when rolling a Guardian Fighter.
Maybe if you are going to talk PnP you should stick to talking 4E which is the inspiration for this game?
But if you want to talk earlier editions where the game goes "Level 1-9 fighters are awesome and above that why aren't you a Wizard or Cleric?" we can do that as well.
Balance is an important part of developing a game where lots of random people are gathering to do things (be it storm dungeons or pvp), however balance does not mean everything the same; it means everyone contributes equally to the outcome not produces equal numbers.
This comes back to my concern with the Swordmaster, with the reduction in threat generation I'm not sure it can contribute in PvE dungeons in a balanced way, it will have the same issues GWFs face - not enough damage/ threat to really hold a place in the party. This doesn't make it bad for specific things like PvP or Solo play but it is a reason for concern.
This is where testing comes in; right now I think I see a lot of arm chair and not a lot of actual testing.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
After testing around a bit, I too have to admit that this new path would get quite an enhancement if only the Guardian Fighter got another area attack which would replace Frontline Surge.
Please think about this as the Guardian Fighter already has some good single target attacks but lacks an area attack besides Enforced Threat and Cleave (and Terrifying Impact and Villain's Menace are just partly countable as area attacks mostly due to their rare availability as Daily powers).
I'm soooo used to my normal rotation it was a bit weird swapping the skills.
At the moment, imo, there's no replacememnt for Frontline Surge - this skill is just so awesome & useful.
Combat superiority + trample is a must have for DPS GF. Doing dungeon's without Trample is like not using Steal time on CW (this is all from DPS GF perspective).
All in all I'm not impressed & will definitely stick to my "old" GF version.
Generally speaking I agree with all written before...this new paragon is a lazy answer to community requests.
Mixing GWF & GF is a joke.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
...All in all I'm not impressed & will definitely stick to my "old" GF version.
Generally speaking I agree with all written before...this new paragon is a lazy answer to community requests.
Mixing GWF & GF is a joke.
I don't think it is a bad idea mixing the Paragon Paths, but I do think that the GWF got the upper side in this trade. They got the best DPS powers the GF have.
This is mostly because the power choice is somewhat questionable and I was expecting Takedown and Indomitable Battle Strike.
I don't think it is a bad idea mixing the Paragon Paths, but I do think that the GWF got the upper side in this trade. They got the best DPS powers the GF have.
This is mostly because the power choice is somewhat questionable and I was expecting Takedown and Indomitable Battle Strike.
I don't know why some people don't check what paragon path means. You get shown what powers you get with the choice you make. IBS and Takedown aren't paragon powers. But silly Q.Qing must be in place because brainless playermind?
The new path for GF has nothing.
Frontline surge is far superior to flourish.
Cleave is great ability.
I dont think any GF are going to take new path at all its a downgrade.
Unlike the GWF path which I think most will switch too at least the sentinels.
I'm not sure about everyone else but I for one would gladly use this new Path. I'm currently leveling up a Tactician just to be able to use this path for PVE once Module 2 comes out live. I know there isn't anything new for our DPS Conquerors, but a defensive and strategic paragon path like this would make the other 2 feat trees a little more viable, specially the Tactician.
Feedback: Overall:What I'm thinking, however, in order to sate both GWF's and GF's who are unsatisfied with the current state of the Swordmaster Paragon Path is to just give a nice buff to the path itself, one that its been deserving for quite some time now. For instance, make it so that Steel Grace can provide the GWF/GF with 50% increased resistance to CC per rank above 1, 17% increase from the normal 33% it gives. Make it so that Flourish gets -1 to CD per rank above 1, and give the debuffs WMS deals to opponents the chance to stack up to 3. Because if we look at things the way it is right now, the Swordmaster Path has been quite underpowered even before this cross-pollination. If buffing just the GF's Swordmaster Path isn't possible, then buffing both GWFs and the GF's Swordmaster Paths would cause more players to at least be enticed to using this path much more than Iron Vanguard.
I already wrote how the fusion of GF and GWF will cause a lot of problems and now one of this is happened: you nerfed again GF. Frontline surge worked well and ASI (don't say lies!) until "yesterday", but now that it is shared with GWF, now it isn't ASI anymore (oh, strange!!) because it cause an unbalancig problem with GWF, so it happened exactly what i was worried about**: to balance GWF you nerfed GF.
GF is the most broken bugged class, the class that the most need serious fixes and boosts, but you continue to hurt it with incomprehensible nerfs.
Module 2 literally will kill GF couse we give for gift our most characterstic power (ea. mark) to GWF gaining in exchange only HAMSTER!*
In module one it was nerfed and you destroy stalwart.
Between the two module, GF only had nerfs and bugs.
EDIT
I explain you how it works.
a: mmm no GF wil use that gwf skill couse it is a HAMSTER.
b: you are right we seriously failed with that sharing of p paths
a: don't worry i have an idea
b: really!?
a: let's nerf that GF skill so if it is like tha other HAMSTER maybe someone will choice it
b: great idea. i love you.
a: ah... That peolple wrote that GF block is bugged, dont block cc
b: i din't care at all
a: yes you are right, don't waste time fixing GF...
Comments
With Iron Vanguard, a GWF gains
-the ability to mark at will, basically gaining a GFs tab ability for free. This probably speaks to how bad a GFs Tab ability is though.
-another gap closer, making their already exceptional mobility even better.
-feat synergy with mark, giving an additional 15% damage to marked targets on top of mark's 8% damage.
-another tanking ability for pve and pvp in Ferocious Reaction, and since defensive GWFs tend to have more HPs, this works even better for them.
-more ability to use prone with frontline + trample the fallen.
It loses
-Weapon Master Strike, it's best AoE damage ability by a mile thanks to sprint cancelling.
As GF, you gain with Swordmaster
-Steel Defense which could have some exceptional synergy with GF's ability to use Daily's more often thanks to block and could be really good with a tactician build.
-Weapon Master Strike, but not nearly as good because you can't animation cancel like a GWF can.
-Crescendo, a very nice high damage attack for pvp, but arguable for DPS. Crescendo also scales horribly with power.
You lose:
-your ability to AoE Mark
-a lot of mobility which is a huge issue in PvP
-15% damage gain from Trample the Fallen (which hurts GFs more than it helps GWFs since GFs have more recovery to use encounters more often and use dailies a lot more)
I really think it highlights how bad a GFs tab ability is though when GWFs basically get it for free. There isn't any power GFs have that can replicate Unstoppable.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Which ones are the other powers, besides EF on Mastery, that you intend to gimp?
Thanks.
Don't proc any weapon enhancement(i tested it only with fire, but still other posted that they tested it too with other and they still don't proc on this skill).
Bug: At-Will: Aggravating strike
Don't proc a stack of Iron Guard(last Feat of protector tree skill).
Bug: At-Will: Shield Slam
Don't proc any weapon enhancement(i tested it only with fire, but still other posted that they tested it too with other and they still don't proc on this skill).
Bug: At-Will: Shield Slam
Don't proc a stack of Iron Guard(last Feat of protector tree skill).
Bug: Daily: Terrifying Impact
Don't do damage to mobs, which get black holed with Arcane Singularity. Only cc-immun mobs(like Icegolems or Bosses) get hurt then.
Bug: Encounter:Anvil of Doom
Bug out on mobs, if you stand to high to them.
Bug: Encounter:Flourish
It hit the nearest target without facing/targeting with mouse. This isn't plausible as it isn't flagged as target-centered power.(simple need a target to use it) Change it to make it work like other non-target-locked powers or change the flag of it!
Bug: Mechanic:Mark
Break without taken hit or duration of 20s run out. It's maybe skill or debuff dependent that this occur. Happened to blocked attacks too.
Bug: Utility:Guard
Don't prevent of some CC. They go through it.
Second some Attacks consume ~40% with a single attack even without it's possible(normally it max drain ~18% and second my shield capacity is more than 5k and the blocked one was 2k).
Bug: Daily: Crescendo
As listed in thread need to be answered.
It does look very fun for a tactician in PvP, but again, the loss of Trample the Fallen for that build is kinda brutal.
I don't know what you exact mean. I don't mean the last step of AS(lift up of mobs and explode), i mean the whole AS effect. From begin of AS, TI can't do damage. Other dailies and encounter and at-will function. So it's not your maybe mention moment of AS finish.
Sorry, but i think you are wroting a lot of sonsense. This is a videogame and there are two separate fighter classes. For example they have different gear (I won a gwf wep in a "greed" roll, BoP, and must salvage it couse I cannot sell, cannot use ecc...), different mechanics (gwf doesnt have shield, but several "i'm total immune to everything" power) and so on... They are two different classes and the developers are fusing them, and this is resulting in a good thing for GWF and terrible very bad thing for GF.
Since we are bringing up PnP then im sure you wouldn't mind applying some rules, like AC hit or miss and shield wielding fighters that do BOTH incredibly high melee dmg and have the highest AC. Not to mention a tabletop or D&D GF would have 3 times the health of a wizard and twice the health of a rogue.... i can go on, .. and on if requested..
Well, since D&D fighters are both dps and defensive units im not understanding at all. D&D fighters do 2 things, high melee dmg and high defense while sporting the highest health.... a fighter that doesn't do damage inst a fighter man.. tanks aren't meat shields only...they do both take one away (or reduce one to the point of irrelevance) and its no longer a fighter.
Agreed, the balance obsession has prevented this game from growing into something that would/could have lasting value. Balance has no place in any form of D&D, ever, for any reason.
The constant reasons for it are all developer related. Its great for the player and awful for the devs. Heard that repeatedly since CB. The fact that players can have no power over the game whatsoever is why it wont ever have lasting value.
Well, its an mmo, it must be balanced i hear all the time. Correct me if im wrong but isnt mmo short for mass multiplayer online? Which means what? Means its an online game that lots of people play.. thats it. The stigma that an mmo has to run a certain way by previous existing standards simply shows the inability for devs to think outside the box.
You also can't expect a game inspired by a turn-based rpg to duplicate the mechanics of it when the inspired game is in no way a turn-based MMORPG, but is instead action based.
The change in game medium and style requires changes from pnp D&D.
Just to be ckear: in this game the rogue deal high melee damage, not the tank.
Forget PnP, there's 15+ D&D VIDEO GAMES that dont use class balancing, some of them online games and some of those have PvP. No matter how you cut it its only inexcusable.
So in every D&D game ive ever played tanks do high damage as well as rogues.... so "clearly" that needs fixin asap.
Forget PnP, there's 15+ D&D VIDEO GAMES that dont use class balancing, some of them online games and some of those have PvP. No matter how you cut it its only inexcusable.
Regardless, the GF, along with every other class is underpowered, If indeed these changes do go through, and i have no doubt that they will. It will render the GF far less functional.
Might i suggest reducing the cooldowns on the GF abilities that are getting axed.. give something in return, something of equal value. The swordmaster tree is well, terrible and the devs know as much. Reduce the cooldown on frontline surge and griffons wrath.... something. GF going backwards lol. This is supposed to be an exciting module for ALL.
The thing is.. GF isn't losing their other path. They're just getting a new one. So... if you really dislike it? don't use it.
This is for those who can take new tools and do something with it. I don't see them taking lunging strike. So it's not like 'all' mobility is gone.
Also, this isn't pnp. So no, I don't consider it relevant. I have played other D&D based MMOs (like DDO) and guess what? they DO have balance... in this game everything hits hard. It's just different styles and how they interact with one another.
My 2 cents?
The Conqueror bonus is just to good to give up.
I have 3 level 60 decent geared Guardian Fighters. My idea was to have each one in a different Paragon Path and they were for a while.
2 of them are now Conqueror, and I manage to tank decently with both. It happens that with the basic threat Heroic feat boost + using the right powers, I'm able to tank better than with them traited Tactician or Protector due to the high damage given by having 6k (or more) power and still having 5.8K Defense and 4k+ deflection.
Honestly, I agree that a Guardian Fighter is first and foremost a FIGHTER and it should have a decent amount of power, since it is the actual Strength attribute in this game. having a fully armored tank that hits like a little girl is not epic and not something that most players expect when rolling a Guardian Fighter.
Do any of these guys do dmg? Are any of these characters diverse?
Shouldn't the goal be to produce quality fighters, not reduced shabby meat shields?
But if you want to talk earlier editions where the game goes "Level 1-9 fighters are awesome and above that why aren't you a Wizard or Cleric?" we can do that as well.
Balance is an important part of developing a game where lots of random people are gathering to do things (be it storm dungeons or pvp), however balance does not mean everything the same; it means everyone contributes equally to the outcome not produces equal numbers.
This comes back to my concern with the Swordmaster, with the reduction in threat generation I'm not sure it can contribute in PvE dungeons in a balanced way, it will have the same issues GWFs face - not enough damage/ threat to really hold a place in the party. This doesn't make it bad for specific things like PvP or Solo play but it is a reason for concern.
This is where testing comes in; right now I think I see a lot of arm chair and not a lot of actual testing.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Please think about this as the Guardian Fighter already has some good single target attacks but lacks an area attack besides Enforced Threat and Cleave (and Terrifying Impact and Villain's Menace are just partly countable as area attacks mostly due to their rare availability as Daily powers).
I'm soooo used to my normal rotation it was a bit weird swapping the skills.
At the moment, imo, there's no replacememnt for Frontline Surge - this skill is just so awesome & useful.
Combat superiority + trample is a must have for DPS GF. Doing dungeon's without Trample is like not using Steal time on CW (this is all from DPS GF perspective).
All in all I'm not impressed & will definitely stick to my "old" GF version.
Generally speaking I agree with all written before...this new paragon is a lazy answer to community requests.
Mixing GWF & GF is a joke.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I don't think it is a bad idea mixing the Paragon Paths, but I do think that the GWF got the upper side in this trade. They got the best DPS powers the GF have.
This is mostly because the power choice is somewhat questionable and I was expecting Takedown and Indomitable Battle Strike.
I don't know why some people don't check what paragon path means. You get shown what powers you get with the choice you make. IBS and Takedown aren't paragon powers. But silly Q.Qing must be in place because brainless playermind?
Frontline surge is far superior to flourish.
Cleave is great ability.
I dont think any GF are going to take new path at all its a downgrade.
Unlike the GWF path which I think most will switch too at least the sentinels.
Feedback: Overall: What I'm thinking, however, in order to sate both GWF's and GF's who are unsatisfied with the current state of the Swordmaster Paragon Path is to just give a nice buff to the path itself, one that its been deserving for quite some time now. For instance, make it so that Steel Grace can provide the GWF/GF with 50% increased resistance to CC per rank above 1, 17% increase from the normal 33% it gives. Make it so that Flourish gets -1 to CD per rank above 1, and give the debuffs WMS deals to opponents the chance to stack up to 3. Because if we look at things the way it is right now, the Swordmaster Path has been quite underpowered even before this cross-pollination. If buffing just the GF's Swordmaster Path isn't possible, then buffing both GWFs and the GF's Swordmaster Paths would cause more players to at least be enticed to using this path much more than Iron Vanguard.
GF is the most broken bugged class, the class that the most need serious fixes and boosts, but you continue to hurt it with incomprehensible nerfs.
Module 2 literally will kill GF couse we give for gift our most characterstic power (ea. mark) to GWF gaining in exchange only HAMSTER!*
In module one it was nerfed and you destroy stalwart.
Between the two module, GF only had nerfs and bugs.
EDIT
I explain you how it works.
a: mmm no GF wil use that gwf skill couse it is a HAMSTER.
b: you are right we seriously failed with that sharing of p paths
a: don't worry i have an idea
b: really!?
a: let's nerf that GF skill so if it is like tha other HAMSTER maybe someone will choice it
b: great idea. i love you.
a: ah... That peolple wrote that GF block is bugged, dont block cc
b: i din't care at all
a: yes you are right, don't waste time fixing GF...
More nerf