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Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Paragon Path
lordgallen
Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developers Cryptic Developers › Posts: 91
Howdy!
The upcoming Shadowmantle module introduces new Paragon paths for all of the existing classes.
We expect a lot of great feedback so we're setting up these threads to keep it more specific.
We'll be stopping by these threads everyday so keep your feedback coming in!
Guardian Fighter - Swordmaster
Displaying their shared fighter heritage, Guardian fighters gain access to the Swordmaster path, which gives them additional offense and control options.
Paragon paths contain 1 Atwill, 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, 3 Class Features, and 3 Feats.
The upcoming Shadowmantle module introduces new Paragon paths for all of the existing classes.
We expect a lot of great feedback so we're setting up these threads to keep it more specific.
We'll be stopping by these threads everyday so keep your feedback coming in!
Guardian Fighter - Swordmaster
Displaying their shared fighter heritage, Guardian fighters gain access to the Swordmaster path, which gives them additional offense and control options.
Paragon paths contain 1 Atwill, 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, 3 Class Features, and 3 Feats.
Post edited by lordgallen on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
(Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Category: Gameplay, Powers, Feats
Bug: Feat: Name
Power did not seem to do anything, audio and hit reacts were also missing. (screenshot)
Feedback: Power: Name
Power was fun to use, but could be even better if it also did this other thing.
Thanks for your help and feedback!
The Swordmaster Paragon Powers are ....
• Encounter Power – Flourish:
o With masterful grace, Stun your opponent and stab them with blinding speed.
• Atwill Power – Weapon Master Strike:
o You attack with an expert strike that briefly reduces Damage Resistance against your At-Wills, and then quickly follows up with another attack from behind. Damage slightly reduced for every target hit beyond the first.
• Daily Power – Crescendo:
o Stun your enemy with a flurry of attacks, and them attack from many angles simultaneously to send them Prone. While attacking, you are immune to control effects.
• Class Feature – Steel Blitz:
o Become adept at fighting multiple targets, gaining a chance to deal an extra attack which increases based on how many enemies you hit.
• Class Feature – Steel Defense:
o After activating a Daily power, become immune to damage for a set duration of time.
• Class Feature – Steel Grace:
o Your skills with weaponry increase, allowing you to mitigate the duration of controlling effects by a percentage.
• Feat – Stunning Flourish:
o Flourish has an extra percentage chance to crit and stuns for an amount of time on the last hit.
• Feat – Staying Power:
o Weapon Master’s Strike now also reduces your targets Mitigation to your encounter powers by a percentage.
• Feat – Grim Promise:
o Crescendo reduces the damage your target deals to you by a percentage for 10 seconds.
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
Swordmaster seems to be useless in PVE. WMS is worse than Cleave and you lose your premier AP-power with Frontline Surge and a premier threat/DPS-passive in Trample. The single target boost DPS/stun from Flourish and Crescendo (+ feats) could be nice for PVP though.
Frontline Surge generating lots of AP is actually a bug. No power is meant to generate AP per target unless it's specially called out on the tooltip.
Frontline Surge bug will likely be fixed.
It's still a powerful skill even outside of it's currently bugged AP gain.
the only good thing for GF's is steel defence and only if your taction tree getting dailies off all the time you can almost always be immune everything else from the sword pargon is pretty much useless for guardian fighters why would i choose flourish over fronteline as a GF even cresendo isnt worth it cleave is better than WMS.
and now with these changes when you have to change a skill it is going to effect both classes between nerfs and tweaking what if one skill works better with GWF and you have to lower it it thus effects guardians thanks designers.
the crossing of these 2 paths just seems lazy and ill thought out
Sorry for the Wall Text.
This power doesnt seem to deal the a good amount of damage, without crits the best I could get was 2.7k total. While doing Crits the best I can get is 4~5k.
Right now my Character has somewhere betwen 5.9~6k of power, wich means that with two strikes of cleave I can give the same amount of dmg as this power. Ofc that Flourish has a stun ability as well, but the time that the mob stay stunned is pretty much useless.
To counter this power I would rather use Griffon's Wrath, wich will give me 3 charge. Those 3 charges will dmg the mob for around 3k per charge (9k total) and it will also stun the mob for at least 3 seconds. While doing crits I could go over 15k dmg using all charges.
Overall on Flourish
Seems kinda useless since I got the same effects from another power, and, it takes less time to cast Griffon's Wrath than Flourish. Would I use it? Probably not.
Advice
Increase the damage a bit. Also, make it that that the player can use the Power the same way that Lunging Strike works. You charge at you opponent and with masterfull grace you deal a series of powerfull blows that stuns you foe. Make it 5 feet at the maximun level. It easier for the GF to move around the field.
This power seems good enough for me. If used correctly the damage of the at-wills will increase in 30%. Wich means that if used with cleave the damage dealt will be outstanding.
Overall on Weapon Master's Strike
Would I use it? Yeap, defenitely.
Advice
Just make the atack a bit faster, now it takes forever to atack.
I got nothing to complain about this one besides the animation.
Overall on Crescendo
Would I use it? Yup, Using it atm!
Advice
Just change the animation, I feel like a GWF when I cast this.
The idea for this class feature is really good, however, I have yet to see it work. I dont know if I am missing the extra atack or something. And, since we are at it, by extra atack you guys mean extra damage or another melee atack in sequence with the previous ones? I got a bit confused on that.
Overall on Steel Blitz
Cool, seems good enough, if it works ofc...
Advice
Just look into what I said, and if I got the text wrong, change it so its easier to understand the ability of this feature.
Hm, im not sure on what to say about this one to be honest. Its a great ability, dont get me wrong, but it feels like you guys dont want GWF's in the game anymore. Idk if you guys got character's, but it is really hard to see a party with a gwf atm. Why? Because I got 38% of daily gain bonus. I get my daily power meter complete using 3~4 encounter powers, wich mean I will spam this feature, making me invulnerable most of the time. And this is a ability of a GWF.
Overall on Steel Defense
As I said, I like this feature, its great for a GF, and ofc I am going to use it if it stays the way it is right now.
Advice
Unfortunately, I would nerf it a bit... Instead of making me completely invulnerable, i would give a bonus to damage resistance, lets say, 40% bonus on the max level.
Useless. Why? Read the description. It can be usefull on PVP I guess, but doesnt seem that good IMHO, unless im getting the text completely wrong.
Overall on Steel Grace
Useless.
Advice
Make something new.
I decided that I wont be using any of the new feats. Why?
1. I expected more from the paragon feats, also I expected there to be more feats decided by my paragon path. Hell, I thought that the trees would be completely remade.
2. It seem you guys messes up when you placed the powers on the trees. Or you just have a whole new meaning for tactician and protector. Staying Power should be a tactician ability and Grim Promise should be a Protector ability.
3. The previous feats still are much better than the new ones.
Overall on SwordMaster
I still haven't made up my mind about this, it has some great features, but has even bigger flaws on the other hand. To be hones, I thought that the Swordmaster would be a DPS style for the GF and that the Iron Vanguard would be the defense spec of this class. But nothing changed. The differences betwen one and the other are pretty much minimal and wont affect my playing style in any way. Wich is sad.
I believe that everyone expected that with new paragon paths a lot would change. At least I expected that when you choose a PARAGON path you would have a PARAGON tree locked, and 2 others for you to build your char. By that I mean that, if I choose the Iron Vanguard, I wouldnt be able to choose the Conqueror tree, since the name of the paragon path suggests that I am going to be a tank, leaving me the option to be a very tanky char, or a medium tanky that will buff the party. The same goes the other way around, if I choose the Swordmaster, I would be a DPS style tank, with less HP, less defense, but dealing great amount of dmg, or beeing medium on dmg and buffing my party.
But the diferences are minimal.
Well, those are MY thoughts on the preview so far, if someone disagrees, please, do tell me, I would love to discuss a few points here.
Once again, sorry wall text.
Kind Regards,
Crooms
Edit: Sorry if I did not use the standard you guys asked for.
If they ever tell my story, let them say I walked with giants.
Swordmaster doesn't seem to be usefull in PvE since you'll have to drop Threatning rush that was already givin an 8% dmg buff and was the best way to mark a group of mobs and generate agro with the subsequential burst of damage given by the only AoE encounters we got (Frontline sourge + Enforced Threat).
Tried it and ended up that I had much more troubles than before in getting the agro even if I got a perfect bronzewood slotted (the perfect bronzewood suffers also from the next problem as follow).
Fluorish is totally useless in PvE, the dmg seems to be half of the frontline sourge one and, most of all, is single target where the main issue for a GF is to generate agro on multiple adds since we got just 2 encounters with more than 1 target.
Crescendo seems actually not worth the loss, both in PvP and PvE I wouldn't bother to lose frontile sourge and threatning rush just to get a daily slighly better than indomitable strenght.
Passives: they aren't bad BUT:
Steel Blitz is just slightly better than trample the fallen (that will give you 15% dmg boost in any party with a decent CW)
Steel defese is actually good with a tactitian build (which seems to be an OP combo), other than that, it seems a nice passive, probably I would always use it in PvP
Steel Grace it's just useless
Conclusion:
The tradeoff is not worth it, maybe for a full PvP oriented char I'd take this path, other than this there's nothing I would take considered what I would lose.
Suggestion:
Dont touch Frontling sourge!! (ok fix the AP bug since I was already aware there was a bug once I saw what you did to Sunburst).
Sacrifice knight challenge or knight valor and give the GF Come and get it.
With this switch I would accept the loss of a gap closer/AoE mark at will for another AoE taunt encounter
Slightly offtopic, but this means you will also be fixing the AP gain per target from Entagling Force on Spell Mastery?
Yup. Control wizards actually have a few powers that generate too much AP.
An ETA on when this will get fixed?
Seems like an unfair advantage that if fixed may encourage more diversity in pve groups.
Historically, fixing supposed CW imbalances actually leads to the NW population crying "MOAR WIZARDS!" and plugging additional CWs into their groups to compensate for target cap and/or AP nerfs. Careful what you wish for....
/end off-topic diversion
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Hopefully during the preview.
And yes, group diversity is certainly a concern.
MOAR WIZARDS INC
no more TR
Maybe it's me but I can't seem to find any groove with WMS. I'm just so accustomed to charge into mobs, throw them down with Frontline, cast Enforced Threat and finish everything off with Cleave.
Even with the bugged AP gain, Frontlines DMG and CC is just too powerful to give up. Makes everything so much easier. I especially like my Conq GF because she can fly through any solo content. And I feel like WMS slows everything down. Debuff a group with WMS and then Cleave, Cleave, Cleave sounds easy, but without the ability to throw them around you suddenly have to deal with all sorts of CC/AoE stuff and have your guard up more times than you want to, which makes the WMS debuff less effective. Frontline also grants all three stacks of Timeless Hero when hitting three targets.
WMS on the GWF is so effective because he can go CC immune with Unstoppable for most of the time in PVE and therefore benefits from the +30% debuff constantly. A GF isn't able to.
In a group setting where CWs control mobs and the GF can Cleave it might be beneficial, but I'm underwhelmed by the first tests in the new zone. Made a quick single target dummy test and WMS/Cleave/Lunging couldn't beat my normal Cleave/Lunging/Frontline rotation despite nearly 100% debuff uptime. Additionally I had more success with WMS when not feating into it and instead spending the points on Crushing Pin and Fight On.
I think Tacticians could have fun with it though. Replace Frontline with Into the Fray and with the increased AP gain Steel Defense looks solid as well.
Bug: Feat: Staying Power
The duration of the debuff for the encounters is much shorter than the general debuff. At least the icons suggest that.
My Feedback is that you consider the workings of the Tab ability for GFs. Currently it lowers a targets DR by a few %. It is very good to mark targets, however with GWFs having this as well now via threatening Rush. I see two options that would re-balance the tab ability.
1) Enable GFs to have the ability to "Mark" Friendly targets. This would INCREASE their DR by the same percentage it drops enemies DR. You can either give it a fixed duration or have it expire upon receiving a "buff" or "heal" much like damage nullifies mark on opposing targets.
2) RE-work Tab so it is no longer a "Mark". Instead it seems the inherent roll of a GF is a group protector. What would be nice to see is an ability LIKE Knights Valor however at a reduced amount. What this could be is a 5 second "damage share" for your party but something like 20% instead of 50% for 10 seconds. Then this would require a different benefit of Knights Valor...
I am playing exclusively PvE since the early days of the Beta as a GF (have minor experience with other classes too). Threatening rush is a must-have At-will, especially if you are a conqueror GF. If I lose that At-will by choosing the Swordmaster Paragon then there is no point to that paragon path, it will be worthless to me.
Marking opponents is THE trademark of a GF. It is a distinctive characteristic similar to the stealth ability of a TR or the unstoppable ability of the GWF. In the current state of the game it is barely tolerable that the GWF can mark a as well, not just because of diluting the uniqueness of the GF class , but also because you can't tell who placed which mark when you have a GF and a GWF in the same party. By making threatening rush available to GWFs you destroy uniqueness, purpose and balance of classes (To GWF players reading this: I know you deserve improvements to your class more than anyone else. But there are other ways).
Next issue is Frontline-Surge: In PvE the GF is currently fairly well balanced (can't tell how it is in PvP). The GF is not too strong and not too weak (you don't see any parties with more than one GF, and I imagine parties without a GF don't occur too often). Please don't change this encounter. The AP generation is high, but so is the cooldown!
The proposed addition of these paragon pathes are in my view a fatal blow to uniqueness and fun of the fighter classes. I wouldn't enjoy playing my GF anymore. I feel strongly about this, and I would prefere no additional paragon path to my class at all than these changes.
(Oh, and to help out my GWF buddies: I suggest to increase the range of their weapon, get rid of the maximum targets they can hit, and increase their damage, while slightly lowering their max HP. That way we have unique classes and we will hopefully finally see parties that choose a GWF over a 2nd CW, as it currently is the norm.)
As the debuff duration is now it is hardly active for an entire animation of the Encounter Power: Flourish.
Overall it seems interesting to mix Guardian Fighter's skills with Great Weapon Fighter's but I cannot say right now whether the GF will get any problems with aggro if they do not rely on Mark anymore. But before this paragon path some Guardian Fighters tanked with pure damage quite successful and it would be interesting to test this path in a real dungeon run.
Boah sorry, but your suggestion would kill mark for most reason. Mark don't reduce mobs DR. It grant only +% damage. If they would change the tabmark into a hard count(tab market mob MUST attack you because all other targets get 'invisible' to attack to break the mark) with the additional +% damage to marked enemies, then it would be a great thing!
You do realize the tool tip specifically says "lowers the damage resistance of the marked target" right?
So yes, it reduces DR....
The problem isnt how it works its that the GWF class can now also mark targets... So let me ask this.
If GFs entire tab ability is to "mark" yet GWFs can "mark" too, what the heck is the point of having it on tab? Threat Rush does a BETTER job than tab also because it marks multiple targets...
The GF TAB ability needs a rework, not just for PVE purposes but also pvp.
Mark by Tab is faster, lasts likely longer and has a much greater range and can build aggro with Enhanced Mark even when a Guardian Fighter does not attack her target, so she can catch enemies from a distance while kiting other enemies, for example.
But sure, it is no more an ability that is completely unique but it is still superior.
The Guardian Fighter gets Steel Defence and Steel Grace, both giving him good abilities for tanking, but as they are in his paragon path without all Marking abilities, he will be far from being the ultimate tank.
"The GF TAB ability needs a rework, not just for PVE purposes but also pvp"
This i agree, perhaps shield boomerang that hits aoe and leave mark perhaps..hits hard and has cd
"The Guardian Fighter gets Steel Defence and Steel Grace, both giving him good abilities for tanking"
You clearly havent tank that much in end game with gf, they loose their main source of generating threat in this new paragon..
sorry for bad english, not my native
Do not get personal, stay on the matter at hand, and a Guardian Fighter still has Enforced Threat.
Sadly, I am able to hold aggro even without Threatening Rush.