If someone does quit the match instead of being ported to where they were before the match started they get ported to a box. A box they cannot leave. A box that has a 15 minute timer that counts down in the middle of the screen. They would be locked out from chatting or opening GUI windows. This would be a must serve sentence, no logging on to another character then coming back. You can log off but when you log that character back in you have to wait for the timer to finish off.
To be honest, I don't care what are the circumstances that would bring a company to implement such a punishment system, but if they did I'd quit playing their game and find something else to do with my time.
____________________________________________
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
I don't quit when I see CERTAIN names on the other side at the start because that would not be fair to my team and also because in some cases it can end up FUN which is exactly what the game should be. If I have fun I stay, if I find it not to be fun I leave.
I do not ever leave for losing though and some people on this very thread can vouch for that as they beat my rear all over the map and I stay (most the time)
I leave for clearly stupid play tactics, only reason I'd ever leave. And I always always try to educate them before I leave and like Blessing I've had TR and CW call me out for low kills when I am heal spec and spent the whole match healing them....through a ton of dmg so THEY could top the chart. Most cases like that I put the TR or CW on ignore but don't leave the rest of the team unless they are bad too.
Most of the big guilds on the server or heavy pvp focus guilds have REALLY nice people in them, usually if I have trouble it is with people who are either not guilded or who only do pvp for dailies. I like all the pvp guilds a lot
meh, I only do pvp for the daily. Win or lose I still get my 4k AD after 4 matches. If we're getting rolled or a team mate (or 2) quits I might suggest to the rest of the team to just stay at the campfire but I never quit. If someone feels better because they managed to beat 3 person team of randoms so be it.
I do PvP mostly for the Daily and when I get the itch to do so. I've been in groups where people have left the match midway because to them "you all suck". Sorry for not playing how you want to play?
I stick out to the end of the match. There's no point in me leaving the campfire if there's a minute or two left to the match, especially if I go down and ask for a 1 vs 1 I won't get it, even against PvP guilds who claim to do so. (And I won't name and names here, as I don't believe it was a premade, more like a PuG with one member of a well known PvP guild.)
I admit, I've made some mistakes in PvP, we all do, we're all human, but geez, you have to realize it's not always people quitting because they're being roflstomped. What if something IRL came up? I'm sure no one took that into account either. If there's going to be some kind of penalty, it has to be something that works out well, like a 10 minute leaver penalty with either some AD loss, or an added match to their Daily (which would be hard to complete if you're consistently leaving matches). Just a thought, at least, and some kind of suggestion.
The only trouble with GS based matches is that GS doesn't equal skill. You can have the spec and the gear and not know what the hell you're doing in PvP. Sure, it might be a good idea to have PuG matches and Premades in their own categories (or what have you) which would help with the quitters, but seriously, some kind of penalty should be put in place. Maybe even some kind of "buff" for the losing team could help, even if just for a bit. Just a thought, at least.
It's really annoying when you are playing a pvp match and your party begin to quit... We have to penalize this kind of person who don't know how to lost a match. IMHO.
I guess that explains why losing with 4 other players gets me 100+ Glory and losing with 2 other players left gets me 300+Glory.
If they fix the ranking system, so premades can face premades or even better teams face teams and know that they will fight for a ranking thingy, then everything will be fine. Although most guild premades from the top names will offer 1v1s, that's not correcting the problem.
People leave because they get overran, not because they are losing. If you queue up with randoms, and end up facing a premade with 5 14kGs people that communicate with TS, then...guess what...you are toasted...badly. Nobody in his good mind will just ride back to 2 and get lolstomped by 4 angry people that throw everything at him like he has a chance. It's nobody's fault, but the system's.
Premades don't like facing PuGs, and vice versa. The need to create different pools of PvP is evident, especially after the server merge.
I am against leaving by all means, and I never do it even if we lose badly. But I can understand why people do it.
PvP is a side event that is meant as an alternative potentially fun thing. Therefore, if you are not having fun, why not leave? Don't tell me it's poor sportsmanship, because it's also poor sportsmanship to blow out a losing team while trash talking and rubbing it in their face. If you are blowing them out, it also means that the team you are facing doesn't present any competition and you probably shouldn't of been facing them in the first place! Unfortunately, there is not system in place with a better filter then we have now. Most of these things have been thrown around but nothing has been done about it, so stop demonizing quitters for doing the smart thing seeking out real competition and not slaughter.
two boxers are about to get into the ring. both boxers have trained extensively. they both have the tools to win. they both have had the same amount of time to prepare for this moment. and DING DING the get into the ring and someone wins and someone loses.
^ that occasionally happens in pvp.
here is what happens other times:
two people are about to get into the boxing ring. one of those people is mike tyson. the other is some kid off the street. mike trains extensively on a regular basis. the kid weighs like a buck o' five soaking wet and hasn't had the extensive training that mike's had. still, they both have had the same time to prepare for this fight. mike definitely has the tools to win. the kid's got five bucks worth of fines from the public library. the bell rings... and they rush out from their respective corners. in less than three minutes, the kid's face looks like a busted tomato. the kid's manager throws in the towel and the ref is trying to pull mike off the kid, but mike's fighting like it's ceasar's palace and this is the heavyweight championship of the world. they keep ringing the bell but mike is in another world... the kid's been out cold for the last seven minutes and mike's still beating his face in. finally, he stops and before he turns back to his corner, he gets in the kids face and says "OOH FACEROLLED!"
and it would be nice if there were more matches like this:
mike and the kid have scheduled a new match. this time, mike acknowledges that the kid does not have his training and is not anywhere near his weight class and it doesn't matter who wins or loses because this isn't a true competitive match. the kid knows that mike can stomp his face in and mike doesn't want to pay any more plastic surgeon bills. so it's a friendly game. it's friendly competition.
funniest ppost in the history of this form...still laughig... lol
then there was the time that i was going for my immortal title... honestly the best title in the game and to get it, you have to die big.
the entire pvp experience is based on your personal perception, first and foremost. and whatever that perception is, it's not wrong. it's yours. and you have your reasons for having it. for some people, fighting mike tyson isn't exciting especially when he's got r8/9/10 and perfect enchants and you've got r5/6/7 and lessers or nothing. for others this is challenging... even if you continually die. but most people just want an equal chance to win. pvp is competitive - there is no denying that. but there is something called concessions. it's okay that people quit matches for whatever reason and it's okay that people choose not to leave the spawn point... they have obviously conceded to you and you should accept it with honor. even if cryptic decided to penalize people for leaving a match before it ends, it wouldn't stop people from either sitting at the spawn point or just accepting whatever the penalty is. you will never get an option that will force people to continually face you to get their face beat in. even when people could (and probably still can) get into their enemy's spawn point, i still have the option to log out and leave.
then there was the time that i was going for my immortal title... honestly the best title in the game and to get it, you have to die big.
the entire pvp experience is based on your personal perception, first and foremost. and whatever that perception is, it's not wrong. it's yours. and you have your reasons for having it. for some people, fighting mike tyson isn't exciting especially when he's got r8/9/10 and perfect enchants and you've got r5/6/7 and lessers or nothing. for others this is challenging... even if you continually die. but most people just want an equal chance to win. pvp is competitive - there is no denying that. but there is something called concessions. it's okay that people quit matches for whatever reason and it's okay that people choose not to leave the spawn point... they have obviously conceded to you and you should accept it with honor. even if cryptic decided to penalize people for leaving a match before it ends, it wouldn't stop people from either sitting at the spawn point or just accepting whatever the penalty is. you will never get an option that will force people to continually face you to get their face beat in. even when people could (and probably still can) get into their enemy's spawn point, i still have the option to log out and leave.
Also good points. I support it.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Put those ladders and rankings in the game, it's not like they're rocket science to code. Proper matchmaking should follow.
Also give us dual spec at a low price, so it is affordable for anyone. Having dual spec is ESSENTIAL for a game with both PvE and PvP.
After this, we can talk about penalties for leavers.
Yes, there needs to be a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct, like in football.
Such as for the guy in a match yesterday, great gear and perfect enchants, who roflstomped the other team, then proceeded to spawn camp at the enemy base, while bragging about how much he enjoyed griefing the other team. That kind of jerkish behavior deserves a penalty.
To Point out a few other things that cause players to quit now besides the obvious.
1. When entering a match and 1 or more 'players' are auto-running towards the gate (always rogues) and have a GS in the 1-2k range are BOTS. 100% are due to the pattern they play in game and never move if you leave them alone. Especially when they 100% of the time run towards #2 on the maps.
2. During a match players who seem to be 100% stealth (Rogues) and use every power they have (and are unable to be seen up close when at 8-10' you should see them) are unable to be. Are using a program to keep this active. It is on the internet (have seen the YouTube videos for it)
3. Other classes are also able to use this program to stay 100% HP at all times and have 100% IMMUNE and DODGE during matches. This is also in such said program.
***Devs need to block the programs to prevent the players using the above from using them in game.
4. Shooting and seeing through walls is another code/program on the internet players are installing to see/target through the map where they shouldn't. These are tedious and intricate programs that players are using to make it look like they can play better than they really can. It too should be blocked.
***Devs & Mods: Please use Google searches more often to realize these are out there and prevent the players leveraging those illegal programs and keep the game clean for others to play fairly.
Now now....if someone jumps on home point at start that does not make him a bad player....most of the time.
Usually it is...all rush 2...unless you see their home node light up...someone breaks off and caps our home point or we all rush home and work or way back, adjusting tactics as we go. Also due to queue bugs when we go premade and join the queue...sometimes the fifth member does not get it and people drop and reform/requeue. I am sure this happens to others and has nothing to do with seeing names on the other side.
i would like to leave my current team when 3 people go to home base at the beginning of the match and 1 other and i go to mid... I HATE THAT. Even if its just 2 to home base and 3 to mid. Or how about that one guy that sits at the campfire for 2 mins. Or if you work hard to get a base then the other team comes back and everyone retreats backwards OFF the base and gives it up willingly... Even if we both speak the same language most wont listen to what you have to say about how to conduct yourself in pvp even when said nicely in a calm manner. I dont see pvp as broken just in a "young" stage still with some room to grow, or fix should i say... like GS pairing. Low geared toons dont want to fight against high GS toons. If you have high GS and want to fight against low level GS then youre a troll:cool:
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
2. During a match players who seem to be 100% stealth (Rogues) and use every power they have (and are unable to be seen up close when at 8-10' you should see them) are unable to be. Are using a program to keep this active. It is on the internet (have seen the YouTube videos for it)
Is that a thing? I thought that I was just having more difficulty seeing some rogues up close than others.
PvP is a side event that is meant as an alternative potentially fun thing. Therefore, if you are not having fun, why not leave? Don't tell me it's poor sportsmanship, because it's also poor sportsmanship to blow out a losing team while trash talking and rubbing it in their face. If you are blowing them out, it also means that the team you are facing doesn't present any competition and you probably shouldn't of been facing them in the first place! Unfortunately, there is not system in place with a better filter then we have now. Most of these things have been thrown around but nothing has been done about it, so stop demonizing quitters for doing the smart thing seeking out real competition and not slaughter.
Matchmaking system, ranked matches, GS brackets all great ideas that have been tossed around. Lets stick with what the OP started though, penalizing quitters.
No. For the simple reason that you can't talk about punishing quitters or people that just wait in the spawn, until you fix the plain stupid matchmaking that allows most games to end up in 1 sided slaughters.
Yesterday i ended up into a match against a half premade with guys i know. They are strong and i enjoy meeting them, but even if i kept getting out of the base and try to fight, i just ended up swarmed by 3-4 guys and getting killed. The match ended 1000 to 69 or something, and i'm pretty sure not even them had much fun in just wiping the enemy team and spend the rest of the game swarming 1 guy.
Even if the enemies do not camp in front of your spawn point, you can try to hide, find isolated enemies or go cap the point that is farther from the enemy Group, but in like 3-4 seconds you'll have the full party swarming at your location.
Considering that i see such matches happening VERY OFTEN, i find it plain stupid to talk about penalties for quitters until PvP is fixed.
There are many things to add together to do so, and you can find them in other games. I already mentioned them. You can:
First: create a premade vs premade system, where formed groups can join in and look for other premades to challenge
Second: make a matchmaking system that allows people to only solo queue for pug PvP, and then randomly form the teams (guildies can end up against each Others--->more fun). so that people can't form half premades or premades to challenge pugs, since the party composition is decided by the game
then
Third: make a auto-scramble system that scramble teams during the match if the score difference is too high. It's already in TF2, for example. This way, if a random team is slaughtering another pug, the game can take the best player of the winning team and switch him with the worst player of the losing team (based on the match ranking). Would help to balance a match when it's 1 sided.
Fourth: make the glory gain depend only by your personal score in pug PvP. Nobody wants to be first or second in the match, but take half the glory cause his team sucks and lose. It's a sad truth. People in pug go there for their own glory, and they go for the points and kills rather than sacrificing themselves to make the team win. I think many people who PvP to farm glory-->buy PvP purple--->salvage for the rough ADs, often wuit early when they see the team losing, simply cause they don't want to waste time for a minimal glory gain.
Quite simply, before you give penalties, you've to create a system that makes 90% of the matches a fun, balanced experience. Right now, we've a system that makes 90% of the matches a boring, frustrating, 1 sided slaughter.
I have to approve too. Quitting a match usually is not a good behaviour, and i almost never do it (only times i quit were when my team ended up 2v5), but when the game makes the experience just frustrating, i can understand quitters.
No. For the simple reason that you can't talk about punishing quitters or people that just wait in the spawn, until you fix the plain stupid matchmaking that allows most games to end up in 1 sided slaughters.
Yesterday i ended up into a match against a half premade with guys i know. They are strong and i enjoy meeting them, but even if i kept getting out of the base and try to fight, i just ended up swarmed by 3-4 guys and getting killed. The match ended 1000 to 69 or something, and i'm pretty sure not even them had much fun in just wiping the enemy team and spend the rest of the game swarming 1 guy.
Even if the enemies do not camp in front of your spawn point, you can try to hide, find isolated enemies or go cap the point that is farther from the enemy Group, but in like 3-4 seconds you'll have the full party swarming at your location.
Considering that i see such matches happening VERY OFTEN, i find it plain stupid to talk about penalties for quitters until PvP is fixed.
There are many things to add together to do so, and you can find them in other games. I already mentioned them. You can:
First: create a premade vs premade system, where formed groups can join in and look for other premades to challenge
Second: make a matchmaking system that allows people to only solo queue for pug PvP, and then randomly form the teams (guildies can end up against each Others--->more fun). so that people can't form half premades or premades to challenge pugs, since the party composition is decided by the game
then
Third: make a auto-scramble system that scramble teams during the match if the score difference is too high. It's already in TF2, for example. This way, if a random team is slaughtering another pug, the game can take the best player of the winning team and switch him with the worst player of the losing team (based on the match ranking). Would help to balance a match when it's 1 sided.
Fourth: make the glory gain depend only by your personal score in pug PvP. Nobody wants to be first or second in the match, but take half the glory cause his team sucks and lose. It's a sad truth. People in pug go there for their own glory, and they go for the points and kills rather than sacrificing themselves to make the team win. I think many people who PvP to farm glory-->buy PvP purple--->salvage for the rough ADs, often wuit early when they see the team losing, simply cause they don't want to waste time for a minimal glory gain.
Quite simply, before you give penalties, you've to create a system that makes 90% of the matches a fun, balanced experience. Right now, we've a system that makes 90% of the matches a boring, frustrating, 1 sided slaughter.
some good ideas in here.
i wonder if they're going to add more items to the glory vendor... they could take the 25k cap off of earned glory and put some other pvp centric items in there. T1.5 to 2.5 or something.
always funny to read about penalizing leavers. just face it:
if you would be blocked for a certain time after leaving --> just wait in spawn until time is over
if you could only stand a certain time in spawn --> move out, hide somewhere in a corner or die somewhere and wait again
being kicked if not moving in spawn --> just move a little around
and so on...
ppl - including me - still won't jump into a match, that is totally one-sided when you build in hundreds of penalties. and how much fun would you have if i would just stand somewhere doing nothing and you can kill a sitting duck?
fix the real problem in pvp and not the the symptoms. as long as there are perma-stealthing trs that one-shot you, as long as there is no matchmaking and you are matched against premades and as long as there are 3 rogues in the enemy team while you have 0 in yours, as long as wo gfs kick you around permanently and you have no chance to do something... people will never jump into a match and have fun because you penalize them to have fun!
it's such a stupid belief to even think that people will have fun playing or want a "challenge" only because you add penalties.
better idea: just give everyone 4k ad for not playing pvp every day. then i would not need to enter those stupid unbalanced matches to grind the 4k. then all the trs and gwfs can have fun together in pvp and all new players can finally do something different.
The quitting is a problem as it has been happening more frequently and to both teams wining or losing. I do think there should be an AD penalty for quitting though this is a problem because of server crashes, lag but who knows as this is live match it should be considered.
Also I read a post about a ranking system to keep more ppl involved regardless of gear score or guild affiliation, just a solid match to match point/rank system for the individuals or groups who participate. like Point guard or King of the Castle)
Other than that cryptic should make it so that you cant logo out once you have entered into a live queue unless its a group decision.
And if you end up botting you get banned or die until the match is over and the next person who was just behind in the queue gets to enter the match.
if cryptic was going to incorporate a penalty system for people that leave pvp matches, then they'd also have to penalize griefers and all unsportsmanlike conduct. since the reward system for pvp is primarily glory, if you leave a pvp match, you lose 350 glory. if you grief camp at a spawn point, you lose 350 glory. if you trash talk during your pvp match, you lose 350 glory. if you lose more than 1000 glory in one day, you're banned from pvp for the rest of the day. does that sound fair? i mean... if you're going to penalize one kind of unsportsmanlike conduct, might as well penalize it all.
if cryptic was going to incorporate a penalty system for people that leave pvp matches, then they'd also have to penalize griefers and all unsportsmanlike conduct. since the reward system for pvp is primarily glory, if you leave a pvp match, you lose 350 glory. if you grief camp at a spawn point, you lose 350 glory. if you trash talk during your pvp match, you lose 350 glory. if you lose more than 1000 glory in one day, you're banned from pvp for the rest of the day. does that sound fair? i mean... if you're going to penalize one kind of unsportsmanlike conduct, might as well penalize it all.
Lol how would they enforce any of that?
You are comparing 1 player ruining an entire match for 9 others to 1 team simply beating the other. You also can't regulate chat in an MMO, that's why every one of them says that game rating doesn't include online interactions.
Honestly I don't even care about a leaver penalty anymore because pugs don't present a challenge. I wholeheartedly support a seperate Q for premade teams, because that's all I really want to fight.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
Honestly I don't even care about a leaver penalty anymore because pugs don't present a challenge. I wholeheartedly support a seperate Q for premade teams, because that's all I really want to fight.
This, though I think there are a lot of alternatives. Q by GS, Q by selecting difficulty, Q by player's PVP rank, system that encourages LF PVP Group in chat, etc. Almost any match-making system is better than what we have now.
3 hours of premade yesterday and not a single organized opponent. No fun.
A couple hours of random pugging = 90% disorganized vs. disorganized, 10% complete decimation. Mostly frustrating (typing directions).
You are comparing 1 player ruining an entire match for 9 others to 1 team simply beating the other. You also can't regulate chat in an MMO, that's why every one of them says that game rating doesn't include online interactions.
Honestly I don't even care about a leaver penalty anymore because pugs don't present a challenge. I wholeheartedly support a seperate Q for premade teams, because that's all I really want to fight.
exactly! how are they going to be able to enforce any of this including "leavers" because... if someone wants to stop playing, they have a variety of options... some of which would be impossible to penalize. my point was to illustrate how ridiculous the argument to penalize people for leaving pvp matches is.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
3 hours of premade yesterday and not a single organized opponent. No fun.
A couple hours of random pugging = 90% disorganized vs. disorganized, 10% complete decimation. Mostly frustrating (typing directions).
Hopefully joining the PMvsPM channel will help.
The fact that you stopped queuing with friends is a good start. I feel kinda guilty each time I am invited to join people that are already so OP they could face a 5 man team by themselves easily, and always wonder what's the purpose in it.
For geared PvP people queuing together "hunting premades", but staying happily to destroy undergeared pugs: stop this lameness guys... just advertise in the PM vs PM channel that I heard it exists or in /lfg that you seek opponents. Props to those that have manners and offer 1 vs 1 at least.
So the existing PVP que should be left for fresh 60's, solo que and bots?
I quite often join with 1 other guildy and pug the rest. 9/10 matches end with the other team leaving in the first minute. No matter how closely matched the first combat is, the team who has most players sent to spawn end up quitting.
This is with no more than 30 points accumulated in the game. So many have the determination and stay power of a gnat.
Before i attack someone i'm not going to check thier gearscore, i'm not going to converse with them to determine if they have sufficient experience to initiate a fight, i'm not going to find out if they have equal time to prepare (stop smoking the weed ffs).
I will check the player list at the start and see if any names are familiar to aim for the most difficult first.
PvE teaches everyone to hate dying, in dungeons its nearly not tolerated. Apply this to PvP situation and it appears that lack of tolerance of death is replicated.
Bring on the leaver penalty.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There's NOTHING one can do against "leavers". They'll just switch methods, stay in camp, run and hide somewhere but not fight, die 100 times, make everything in their power to end the torment so they get the RAD.
And I totally understand them.
Why would somebody undergeared and fresh at 60 face some all-epics guy? Just to be insta-killed? It's pointless. Humans are smart. We don't like to do useless stuff. We like useful stuff for rewards. We also like fun.
When PvP seizes to be fun, and there's nothing to keep that person there (i.e. a team of friends, an enemy that deserves respect etc.), why stay?
This is a game. We play games to have fun and be entertained. The moment the fun is gone, our minds will automatically seek it someplace else.
So deal with it. It's not the leavers' fault, it's the developer's fault, because there's no matchmaking, no ladder system, no rankings, just 2 maps thrown in there and some randomly "balanced" classes and items.
Oh i read it. I just disagree with the justification.
I also understand human nature and path of least resistance. People love to play the victim card. It allows them to blame someone else for thier actions or lack of action. Yes humans are smart, they are also lazy. If they dont have to change out of thier green gear to get thier 4k ad each day why would they?
How long are you going to cling to the "fresh 60 in greens" premise? Are you white knighting for all the 60s into thier first match? By now i bet you arent a freshie in greens. Unless anything more "shouldnt" be needed to right-click-leave-party at the first sign of resistance.
So do you have a choice or are you the perpetual vicitm?
Comments
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
I do not ever leave for losing though and some people on this very thread can vouch for that as they beat my rear all over the map and I stay (most the time)
I leave for clearly stupid play tactics, only reason I'd ever leave. And I always always try to educate them before I leave and like Blessing I've had TR and CW call me out for low kills when I am heal spec and spent the whole match healing them....through a ton of dmg so THEY could top the chart. Most cases like that I put the TR or CW on ignore but don't leave the rest of the team unless they are bad too.
Most of the big guilds on the server or heavy pvp focus guilds have REALLY nice people in them, usually if I have trouble it is with people who are either not guilded or who only do pvp for dailies. I like all the pvp guilds a lot
I stick out to the end of the match. There's no point in me leaving the campfire if there's a minute or two left to the match, especially if I go down and ask for a 1 vs 1 I won't get it, even against PvP guilds who claim to do so. (And I won't name and names here, as I don't believe it was a premade, more like a PuG with one member of a well known PvP guild.)
I admit, I've made some mistakes in PvP, we all do, we're all human, but geez, you have to realize it's not always people quitting because they're being roflstomped. What if something IRL came up? I'm sure no one took that into account either. If there's going to be some kind of penalty, it has to be something that works out well, like a 10 minute leaver penalty with either some AD loss, or an added match to their Daily (which would be hard to complete if you're consistently leaving matches). Just a thought, at least, and some kind of suggestion.
The only trouble with GS based matches is that GS doesn't equal skill. You can have the spec and the gear and not know what the hell you're doing in PvP. Sure, it might be a good idea to have PuG matches and Premades in their own categories (or what have you) which would help with the quitters, but seriously, some kind of penalty should be put in place. Maybe even some kind of "buff" for the losing team could help, even if just for a bit. Just a thought, at least.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
I guess that explains why losing with 4 other players gets me 100+ Glory and losing with 2 other players left gets me 300+Glory.
Pretty much my stance on this.
funniest ppost in the history of this form...still laughig... lol
the entire pvp experience is based on your personal perception, first and foremost. and whatever that perception is, it's not wrong. it's yours. and you have your reasons for having it. for some people, fighting mike tyson isn't exciting especially when he's got r8/9/10 and perfect enchants and you've got r5/6/7 and lessers or nothing. for others this is challenging... even if you continually die. but most people just want an equal chance to win. pvp is competitive - there is no denying that. but there is something called concessions. it's okay that people quit matches for whatever reason and it's okay that people choose not to leave the spawn point... they have obviously conceded to you and you should accept it with honor. even if cryptic decided to penalize people for leaving a match before it ends, it wouldn't stop people from either sitting at the spawn point or just accepting whatever the penalty is. you will never get an option that will force people to continually face you to get their face beat in. even when people could (and probably still can) get into their enemy's spawn point, i still have the option to log out and leave.
Also good points. I support it.
Also give us dual spec at a low price, so it is affordable for anyone. Having dual spec is ESSENTIAL for a game with both PvE and PvP.
After this, we can talk about penalties for leavers.
Such as for the guy in a match yesterday, great gear and perfect enchants, who roflstomped the other team, then proceeded to spawn camp at the enemy base, while bragging about how much he enjoyed griefing the other team. That kind of jerkish behavior deserves a penalty.
1. When entering a match and 1 or more 'players' are auto-running towards the gate (always rogues) and have a GS in the 1-2k range are BOTS. 100% are due to the pattern they play in game and never move if you leave them alone. Especially when they 100% of the time run towards #2 on the maps.
2. During a match players who seem to be 100% stealth (Rogues) and use every power they have (and are unable to be seen up close when at 8-10' you should see them) are unable to be. Are using a program to keep this active. It is on the internet (have seen the YouTube videos for it)
3. Other classes are also able to use this program to stay 100% HP at all times and have 100% IMMUNE and DODGE during matches. This is also in such said program.
***Devs need to block the programs to prevent the players using the above from using them in game.
4. Shooting and seeing through walls is another code/program on the internet players are installing to see/target through the map where they shouldn't. These are tedious and intricate programs that players are using to make it look like they can play better than they really can. It too should be blocked.
***Devs & Mods: Please use Google searches more often to realize these are out there and prevent the players leveraging those illegal programs and keep the game clean for others to play fairly.
Usually it is...all rush 2...unless you see their home node light up...someone breaks off and caps our home point or we all rush home and work or way back, adjusting tactics as we go. Also due to queue bugs when we go premade and join the queue...sometimes the fifth member does not get it and people drop and reform/requeue. I am sure this happens to others and has nothing to do with seeing names on the other side.
+1 i approve this message
No. For the simple reason that you can't talk about punishing quitters or people that just wait in the spawn, until you fix the plain stupid matchmaking that allows most games to end up in 1 sided slaughters.
Yesterday i ended up into a match against a half premade with guys i know. They are strong and i enjoy meeting them, but even if i kept getting out of the base and try to fight, i just ended up swarmed by 3-4 guys and getting killed. The match ended 1000 to 69 or something, and i'm pretty sure not even them had much fun in just wiping the enemy team and spend the rest of the game swarming 1 guy.
Even if the enemies do not camp in front of your spawn point, you can try to hide, find isolated enemies or go cap the point that is farther from the enemy Group, but in like 3-4 seconds you'll have the full party swarming at your location.
Considering that i see such matches happening VERY OFTEN, i find it plain stupid to talk about penalties for quitters until PvP is fixed.
There are many things to add together to do so, and you can find them in other games. I already mentioned them. You can:
First: create a premade vs premade system, where formed groups can join in and look for other premades to challenge
Second: make a matchmaking system that allows people to only solo queue for pug PvP, and then randomly form the teams (guildies can end up against each Others--->more fun). so that people can't form half premades or premades to challenge pugs, since the party composition is decided by the game
then
Third: make a auto-scramble system that scramble teams during the match if the score difference is too high. It's already in TF2, for example. This way, if a random team is slaughtering another pug, the game can take the best player of the winning team and switch him with the worst player of the losing team (based on the match ranking). Would help to balance a match when it's 1 sided.
Fourth: make the glory gain depend only by your personal score in pug PvP. Nobody wants to be first or second in the match, but take half the glory cause his team sucks and lose. It's a sad truth. People in pug go there for their own glory, and they go for the points and kills rather than sacrificing themselves to make the team win. I think many people who PvP to farm glory-->buy PvP purple--->salvage for the rough ADs, often wuit early when they see the team losing, simply cause they don't want to waste time for a minimal glory gain.
Quite simply, before you give penalties, you've to create a system that makes 90% of the matches a fun, balanced experience. Right now, we've a system that makes 90% of the matches a boring, frustrating, 1 sided slaughter.
I have to approve too. Quitting a match usually is not a good behaviour, and i almost never do it (only times i quit were when my team ended up 2v5), but when the game makes the experience just frustrating, i can understand quitters.
some good ideas in here.
i wonder if they're going to add more items to the glory vendor... they could take the 25k cap off of earned glory and put some other pvp centric items in there. T1.5 to 2.5 or something.
if you would be blocked for a certain time after leaving --> just wait in spawn until time is over
if you could only stand a certain time in spawn --> move out, hide somewhere in a corner or die somewhere and wait again
being kicked if not moving in spawn --> just move a little around
and so on...
ppl - including me - still won't jump into a match, that is totally one-sided when you build in hundreds of penalties. and how much fun would you have if i would just stand somewhere doing nothing and you can kill a sitting duck?
fix the real problem in pvp and not the the symptoms. as long as there are perma-stealthing trs that one-shot you, as long as there is no matchmaking and you are matched against premades and as long as there are 3 rogues in the enemy team while you have 0 in yours, as long as wo gfs kick you around permanently and you have no chance to do something... people will never jump into a match and have fun because you penalize them to have fun!
it's such a stupid belief to even think that people will have fun playing or want a "challenge" only because you add penalties.
better idea: just give everyone 4k ad for not playing pvp every day. then i would not need to enter those stupid unbalanced matches to grind the 4k. then all the trs and gwfs can have fun together in pvp and all new players can finally do something different.
Also I read a post about a ranking system to keep more ppl involved regardless of gear score or guild affiliation, just a solid match to match point/rank system for the individuals or groups who participate. like Point guard or King of the Castle)
Other than that cryptic should make it so that you cant logo out once you have entered into a live queue unless its a group decision.
And if you end up botting you get banned or die until the match is over and the next person who was just behind in the queue gets to enter the match.
My two Cents...GO Blue :P
Lol how would they enforce any of that?
You are comparing 1 player ruining an entire match for 9 others to 1 team simply beating the other. You also can't regulate chat in an MMO, that's why every one of them says that game rating doesn't include online interactions.
Honestly I don't even care about a leaver penalty anymore because pugs don't present a challenge. I wholeheartedly support a seperate Q for premade teams, because that's all I really want to fight.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
This, though I think there are a lot of alternatives. Q by GS, Q by selecting difficulty, Q by player's PVP rank, system that encourages LF PVP Group in chat, etc. Almost any match-making system is better than what we have now.
3 hours of premade yesterday and not a single organized opponent. No fun.
A couple hours of random pugging = 90% disorganized vs. disorganized, 10% complete decimation. Mostly frustrating (typing directions).
Hopefully joining the PMvsPM channel will help.
Iyon the Dark
exactly! how are they going to be able to enforce any of this including "leavers" because... if someone wants to stop playing, they have a variety of options... some of which would be impossible to penalize. my point was to illustrate how ridiculous the argument to penalize people for leaving pvp matches is.
The fact that you stopped queuing with friends is a good start. I feel kinda guilty each time I am invited to join people that are already so OP they could face a 5 man team by themselves easily, and always wonder what's the purpose in it.
For geared PvP people queuing together "hunting premades", but staying happily to destroy undergeared pugs: stop this lameness guys... just advertise in the PM vs PM channel that I heard it exists or in /lfg that you seek opponents. Props to those that have manners and offer 1 vs 1 at least.
I quite often join with 1 other guildy and pug the rest. 9/10 matches end with the other team leaving in the first minute. No matter how closely matched the first combat is, the team who has most players sent to spawn end up quitting.
This is with no more than 30 points accumulated in the game. So many have the determination and stay power of a gnat.
Before i attack someone i'm not going to check thier gearscore, i'm not going to converse with them to determine if they have sufficient experience to initiate a fight, i'm not going to find out if they have equal time to prepare (stop smoking the weed ffs).
I will check the player list at the start and see if any names are familiar to aim for the most difficult first.
PvE teaches everyone to hate dying, in dungeons its nearly not tolerated. Apply this to PvP situation and it appears that lack of tolerance of death is replicated.
Bring on the leaver penalty.
You didn't read the previous posts didn't you?
There's NOTHING one can do against "leavers". They'll just switch methods, stay in camp, run and hide somewhere but not fight, die 100 times, make everything in their power to end the torment so they get the RAD.
And I totally understand them.
Why would somebody undergeared and fresh at 60 face some all-epics guy? Just to be insta-killed? It's pointless. Humans are smart. We don't like to do useless stuff. We like useful stuff for rewards. We also like fun.
When PvP seizes to be fun, and there's nothing to keep that person there (i.e. a team of friends, an enemy that deserves respect etc.), why stay?
This is a game. We play games to have fun and be entertained. The moment the fun is gone, our minds will automatically seek it someplace else.
So deal with it. It's not the leavers' fault, it's the developer's fault, because there's no matchmaking, no ladder system, no rankings, just 2 maps thrown in there and some randomly "balanced" classes and items.
I also understand human nature and path of least resistance. People love to play the victim card. It allows them to blame someone else for thier actions or lack of action. Yes humans are smart, they are also lazy. If they dont have to change out of thier green gear to get thier 4k ad each day why would they?
How long are you going to cling to the "fresh 60 in greens" premise? Are you white knighting for all the 60s into thier first match? By now i bet you arent a freshie in greens. Unless anything more "shouldnt" be needed to right-click-leave-party at the first sign of resistance.
So do you have a choice or are you the perpetual vicitm?