Extremely lame. HV stacking is the only thing that makes the game events have the desired length for me, and gives my char a sense of power, also making it desirable for pugs. If it's going to be repetition and farming, at least it should be fast.
I'm sure smart people will find something else though. This game is not good enough to be enjoyed at intended length, it needs to be shortened up a bit.
I've already collected the SW set for when the bad times come - that's it if I decide the game is still worth my time.
With new and better content though, I'd have nothing against long dungeons - but only if they are rewarding enough.
PS: Sudden Storm and Storm Pillar have nothing to do with HV stacking.
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
They are limited to 3 per cw. They just coded it bad and limited it to 3 per entity. Summoning a shard is a new entity which adds his 3 stacks then ceases to exist. Oppressive force summons 2 entities, the first adds his 3 stacks then ceases to exist, the 2nd entity is the explosion which adds 1 more stack. The cw himself does nothing other than refreshing the debuffs duration with his own control powers while waiting for cooldown on shard/ap gain for oppressive force so he can summon new, unique entities that can add their stacks to the boss.
That is how it is supossed to work, and originaly it was intended to only proc from 'control' abilitys of which most bosses are immune, thats why at present it is making such a big difference to dungeon runs.
That is how it is supossed to work, and originaly it was intended to only proc from 'control' abilitys of which most bosses are immune, thats why at present it is making such a big difference to dungeon runs.
Bosses are also immune to chill, but the the devs clearly want the "stacking despite immunity". Yes HV will be "nerfed", I am just saying that at least make it like other stack-able debuffs, in that multiple players can build stacks to a fixed maximum. I propose that the max be some multiple of 3, greater than 3. Maybe 9, representing three CW's worth.
Just my opinion though, many others feel that it IS processing correctly, and they are technically right, just like GWF sentinels can technically "abuse" unstoppable in pvp , and I can "abuse" my teleport with severe reaction. I don't think the high HV stacking is an exploit. There is no armor set description that mentions a limit.
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
I don't think the high HV stacking is an exploit. There is no armor set description that mentions a limit.
Exactly, it's not an exploit. No where does it say a limit or 3 control powers = stacks of 3 each. As long as cw's use control powers it should reduce the mob or boss def as intended. If it wasn't it would say a limit in the description.
I personally haven't seen it stack up to 60. In a group of 3 cw's I barely see it reach 10, so this whole thread is useless.
They'll probably limit it to 3 stacks and put it in description because of stupid crybaby kids that don't wanna kill a boss too fast. lol;)
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Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Exactly, it's not an exploit. No where does it say a limit or 3 control powers = stacks of 3 each. As long as cw's use control powers it should reduce the mob or boss def as intended. If it wasn't it would say a limit in the description.
I personally haven't seen it stack up to 60. In a group of 3 cw's I barely see it reach 10, so this whole thread is useless.
They'll probably limit it to 3 stacks and put it in description because of stupid crybaby kids that don't wanna kill a boss too fast. lol;)
The CWs you group with have no idea what they're doing if you saw just 10 stacks. Even with 2 CWs 20-30 stacks on bosses are common.
This being said, I as a CW don't want this mechanic "fixed". Don't touch it. I enjoy fast runs and melting stuff, and I enjoy being top DPS in charts, even if doesn't mean a thing in the end. It compensates for how squishy and vulnerable my char is in PvP. Not to mention I worked my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for this set. It's a T2 set, best in game, it should be good and efficient and create a sense of power for the owner.
So leave it alone
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Exactly, it's not an exploit. No where does it say a limit or 3 control powers = stacks of 3 each. As long as cw's use control powers it should reduce the mob or boss def as intended. If it wasn't it would say a limit in the description.
I personally haven't seen it stack up to 60. In a group of 3 cw's I barely see it reach 10, so this whole thread is useless.
They'll probably limit it to 3 stacks and put it in description because of stupid crybaby kids that don't wanna kill a boss too fast. lol;)
Those CWs are not in sync at all. We run CN and GG T2 all the time with 3 HV CWs. 60+ stacks is normal for Draco. 30+ stacks is easy on Dwarf King, but he keeps swapping in and out of his armor, so you can't build much past that.
inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
a solo CW should be hitting at least 10 stacks on his own within the first 5 seconds of combat. 3x CW = 30 stacks basically instantly. any more than that and it requires you to actually maintain/refresh the debuff intentionally, but if you aren't getting 10 stacks solo right off the bat you are using the wrong powers. I don't mean the wrong powers for a HV wizard, I mean you are playing the class wrong no matter what gear set you are using.
idk, maybe your cw's are still stuck in the "I use singularity and shield and that's what i'm supposed to be using" mindset from pre-feywild, before the multiple repeated ledge nerfs and shield nerf and AOE as the norm dungeon design/redesign, etc. Basically if shield and sing are your go to powers, you are wrong. Singularity should be on your bar for Dracolich fight and uh...a few places in spider during trash clearing. I honestly can't think of another dungeon where you'd even use it.
The CWs you group with have no idea what they're doing if you saw just 10 stacks. Even with 2 CWs 20-30 stacks on bosses are common.
This being said, I as a CW don't want this mechanic "fixed". Don't touch it. I enjoy fast runs and melting stuff, and I enjoy being top DPS in charts, even if doesn't mean a thing in the end. It compensates for how squishy and vulnerable my char is in PvP. Not to mention I worked my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for this set. It's a T2 set, best in game, it should be good and efficient and create a sense of power for the owner.
Hey all, we're aware of this issue and working on a solution! Thank you!
how long have the devs know about this issue for I know a lot people reported this long ago in game
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
To be quite honest, I don't understand why some of you guys push so hard for this. I mean, the TRs I run dungeons with love HV, they do some mouthwatering crits. Our GF loves us HV CWs as well, he's quite tired of kiting adds for 20 mins, when it can be done in 3. The DCs love the set too. GWFs, love it again.
Basically everybody wins, shorter runs, higher damage, everything faster and more efficient.
Also in our group we rarely run 3 CWs, we like diversity. If this is an attempt to create more diversity in groups because of newly decreased CW efficiency, I suspect it will have quite the opposite effect, and I'm not alone in this. There are lots of adds to be CCed, if our class loses efficiency, people will simply be forced to bring more. It's not out fault, it's how dungeons are designed in this game.
To be quite honest, I don't understand why some of you guys push so hard for this. I mean, the TRs I run dungeons with love HV, they do some mouthwatering crits. Our GF loves us HV CWs as well, he's quite tired of kiting adds for 20 mins, when it can be done in 3. The DCs love the set too. GWFs, love it again.
Basically everybody wins, shorter runs, higher damage, everything faster and more efficient.
Also in our group we rarely run 3 CWs, we like diversity. If this is an attempt to create more diversity in groups because of newly decreased CW efficiency, I suspect it will have quite the opposite effect, and I'm not alone in this. There are lots of adds to be CCed, if our class loses efficiency, people will simply be forced to bring more. It's not out fault, it's how dungeons are designed in this game.
all most every pug has 3+ cw becase this bug so hard for others to get groups when there doing dubble others dps becase of buff from each other
when I want to play my cw who's 60 and has hv I can not as people expect you to use bug and not all us want to use bugs
this is why I can not wait for the change
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
all most every pug has 3+ cw becase this bug so hard for others to get groups when there doing dubble others dps becase of buff from each other
when I want to play my cw who's 60 and has hv I can not as people expect you to use bug and not all us want to use bugs
this is why I can not wait for the change
Hey Chance
You mean you won't use Shard and Oppressive Force on your CW? HV or not, these are among our best spells. A CW with HV doesn't do anything special to "bug" things, he just tries to add stacks and maintain them - this just happens as we do our best rotation, we can't avoid it. I did this every MC run we had, without even thinking I exploit something. I did for the whole party to have increased damage output and faster kills.
Not using these spells would he hugely detrimental to any CW, HV or not. I know it very good, I ran 2-3 weeks after the module hit with dated shield setup because I wanted more data before respec, and I saw other CWs having much better damage with shard and OF.
Also, if you read the CW forums, you will see every guide recommends HV. Not to put 70 stacks on Draco, but because it's the one and only good CW set, PvE or PvP, others being underpowered and situational. I cannot imagine why you did get the set for your CW if you don't want to use the 4 piece bonus, because we have no idea which is the original developer intent. What we know is that they intend to change the way it works now, that's all.
Even if you nerf HV I would rather go to do CN with 3 cws or at least 2 because the vast cc+singu+shards plus the way easier end fight against red wizards. Oh and the 2nd boss as well.
I guess poping this one in pvp section rather implies that someone cant kill cws efficiently in pvp matches...
I really doubt that he's skills will improve after any kind of nerf.
Even if you nerf HV I would rather go to do CN with 3 cws or at least 2 because the vast cc+singu+shards plus the way easier end fight against red wizards. Oh and the 2nd boss as well.
I guess poping this one in pvp section rather implies that someone cant kill cws efficiently in pvp matches...
I really doubt that he's skills will improve after any kind of nerf.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Such a fix won't help more diverse party composition.
However, this is also a Combat and Gameplay subforum, besides PvP
If you are unable to develop your skills to kill cws in pvp then start a gwf or tr character and play with it. They are always a nemesis to cws.
Or start a cw itself. They are really fun to play and you won't have problem with HV.
People are complaining about PvE, not PvP. I don't know any PvP team that stacks 3 HV CWs that all go OF in succession on the other guys, but it would be lulzy to see
So the complaints are basically because HV supposedly kills diversity and adds more PvE usefulness to an already insanely useful class, that CCS, dishes out best damage and debuffs as well. Complainers are mostly CWs without the set (yet), GFs and GWFs that cannot find CN parties because 4 spots are already gone in the normal comps and usually a TR is the 5th, although I had some amazing runs with GWFs instead.
Problem is most people will still not bring GFs in CN and still run 3 CWs, because you need to make short work of the nasty adds, and no class does it better than the CW.
My suggestion for complainers is that they actually go ask for BUFFS for their class so they can be more useful in PvE, instead of asking for a HV nerf.
I said it before, and saying it again: the TRs, GWFs and DCs I run CN with all would hate an incoming nerf. Nobody will profit from it. Even you GFs profit from our stacks in other dungeons such as MC and T2s all the time. You want to be kiting adds for 20 mins instead of 5?
People are complaining about PvE, not PvP. I don't know any PvP team that stacks 3 HV CWs that all go OF in succession on the other guys, but it would be lulzy to see
So the complaints are basically because HV supposedly kills diversity and adds more PvE usefulness to an already insanely useful class, that CCS, dishes out best damage and debuffs as well. Complainers are mostly CWs without the set (yet), GFs and GWFs that cannot find CN parties because 4 spots are already gone in the normal comps and usually a TR is the 5th, although I had some amazing runs with GWFs instead.
Problem is most people will still not bring GFs in CN and still run 3 CWs, because you need to make short work of the nasty adds, and no class does it better than the CW.
My suggestion for complainers is that they actually go ask for BUFFS for their class so they can be more useful in PvE, instead of asking for a HV nerf.
I said it before, and saying it again: the TRs, GWFs and DCs I run CN with all would hate an incoming nerf. Nobody will profit from it. Even you GFs profit from our stacks in other dungeons such as MC and T2s all the time. You want to be kiting adds for 20 mins instead of 5?
Be my guests.
It doesn't matter that all burn enemies faster to dead. Or that any class don't get party. It's a gamebreaking debuffbug and that needs to fix. 3+ of the base damage done is stupid high. It's like the exploits of push/lure Bossmobs to dead or you terrain impossible attackplaces for them. Yeah all the player benefit from this, but this isn't intended by gamedesign. Why you think that debuffs normally don't stack as high as HV does? Because it would show to big damage with that. And nope. I don't think any buffs of any classes can break the CW-dominance itself. Not without breaking PvP. So they need to get down one of the three parts: Debuffs(not the HV, that's only a fix not nerf), CC or damage. I would say damage, then they still dominate the mobs, but the GWF do their damage and the GF help to crowd them and get primary/secondary hitcover.
I couldn't agree more. Probably only the GFs has some false joy about it. All other classes with appreciate the minus 20 minutes (or more) of this dungeon to finish.
I see GWFs (with probably tenebrous) to use there instead of TRs.
The CW complainers are all silly because they have no problem at all. Just farm HV for a few days and put down your another set and wait for his time again. They shouldn't put away the nice HV because of some ancient SW set nostalgia or something like that...
Btw I always play an rpg with wizard.(nwn1-2,bg1-2,iwd1-2,da1-2) Really fun to play from the background and see the battle as a whole.
So when u get knocked u Can't do anything but die right, Guys u need to learn DD, and if u havent played a CW then U really don't know what it takes to control ADDs.
So when u get knocked u Can't do anything but die right, Guys u need to learn DD, and if u havent played a CW then U really don't know what it takes to control ADDs.
Some dungeon has CW preference, some dungeon has TR some others.
Do you hear me crying over the total TR dominance in FH when making a group? No.
But that was annoying as well.
Only exploiters will complain about A BUG FIX... i never had problems entering any group, i have circa 200 draco kills, and that, stopping doing CN like 2 months ago due to being tired of it, the metagame right now is unhealthy, as i said, is not only the HV set, right now, in PvE, CWs are stupidly dominating, so, a nerf is coming, you like it or not, and will be good for the game, Arcane singularity needs to be either cut in half in effectiveness or you AP generation should be cut in half, so i'd rather get the skill, not the AP generation, HV stacking goes without saying, is a bug and will be fixed, but is not the main problem, right now CWs are best CC and BEST DPS, doubles on AoE any other toon and goes toe on toe on single target DPS to rogues.
Yeah, CN farmers/exploiters will be sad, big deal, but the rest of the comunty will have it better and more balanced, also GWFs need a boost, i agree, for example removing the 5 targets limit on their AoE, GFs & TRs are almost perfect right now, and DCs must get removed their righterousness, that way, the game will be a lot healthier.
Comments
Extremely lame. HV stacking is the only thing that makes the game events have the desired length for me, and gives my char a sense of power, also making it desirable for pugs. If it's going to be repetition and farming, at least it should be fast.
I'm sure smart people will find something else though. This game is not good enough to be enjoyed at intended length, it needs to be shortened up a bit.
I've already collected the SW set for when the bad times come - that's it if I decide the game is still worth my time.
With new and better content though, I'd have nothing against long dungeons - but only if they are rewarding enough.
PS: Sudden Storm and Storm Pillar have nothing to do with HV stacking.
its not the spec but the abilitys used and rotating them to keep the stacks up and adding more
That is how it is supossed to work, and originaly it was intended to only proc from 'control' abilitys of which most bosses are immune, thats why at present it is making such a big difference to dungeon runs.
Bosses are also immune to chill, but the the devs clearly want the "stacking despite immunity". Yes HV will be "nerfed", I am just saying that at least make it like other stack-able debuffs, in that multiple players can build stacks to a fixed maximum. I propose that the max be some multiple of 3, greater than 3. Maybe 9, representing three CW's worth.
Just my opinion though, many others feel that it IS processing correctly, and they are technically right, just like GWF sentinels can technically "abuse" unstoppable in pvp
Exactly, it's not an exploit. No where does it say a limit or 3 control powers = stacks of 3 each. As long as cw's use control powers it should reduce the mob or boss def as intended. If it wasn't it would say a limit in the description.
I personally haven't seen it stack up to 60. In a group of 3 cw's I barely see it reach 10, so this whole thread is useless.
They'll probably limit it to 3 stacks and put it in description because of stupid crybaby kids that don't wanna kill a boss too fast. lol;)
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
The CWs you group with have no idea what they're doing if you saw just 10 stacks. Even with 2 CWs 20-30 stacks on bosses are common.
This being said, I as a CW don't want this mechanic "fixed". Don't touch it. I enjoy fast runs and melting stuff, and I enjoy being top DPS in charts, even if doesn't mean a thing in the end. It compensates for how squishy and vulnerable my char is in PvP. Not to mention I worked my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for this set. It's a T2 set, best in game, it should be good and efficient and create a sense of power for the owner.
So leave it alone
Those CWs are not in sync at all. We run CN and GG T2 all the time with 3 HV CWs. 60+ stacks is normal for Draco. 30+ stacks is easy on Dwarf King, but he keeps swapping in and out of his armor, so you can't build much past that.
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idk, maybe your cw's are still stuck in the "I use singularity and shield and that's what i'm supposed to be using" mindset from pre-feywild, before the multiple repeated ledge nerfs and shield nerf and AOE as the norm dungeon design/redesign, etc. Basically if shield and sing are your go to powers, you are wrong. Singularity should be on your bar for Dracolich fight and uh...a few places in spider during trash clearing. I honestly can't think of another dungeon where you'd even use it.
definitely not easymoding.
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long live 1tr 3cw 1dc groups
how long have the devs know about this issue for I know a lot people reported this long ago in game
Basically everybody wins, shorter runs, higher damage, everything faster and more efficient.
Also in our group we rarely run 3 CWs, we like diversity. If this is an attempt to create more diversity in groups because of newly decreased CW efficiency, I suspect it will have quite the opposite effect, and I'm not alone in this. There are lots of adds to be CCed, if our class loses efficiency, people will simply be forced to bring more. It's not out fault, it's how dungeons are designed in this game.
all most every pug has 3+ cw becase this bug so hard for others to get groups when there doing dubble others dps becase of buff from each other
when I want to play my cw who's 60 and has hv I can not as people expect you to use bug and not all us want to use bugs
this is why I can not wait for the change
Hey Chance
You mean you won't use Shard and Oppressive Force on your CW? HV or not, these are among our best spells. A CW with HV doesn't do anything special to "bug" things, he just tries to add stacks and maintain them - this just happens as we do our best rotation, we can't avoid it. I did this every MC run we had, without even thinking I exploit something. I did for the whole party to have increased damage output and faster kills.
Not using these spells would he hugely detrimental to any CW, HV or not. I know it very good, I ran 2-3 weeks after the module hit with dated shield setup because I wanted more data before respec, and I saw other CWs having much better damage with shard and OF.
Also, if you read the CW forums, you will see every guide recommends HV. Not to put 70 stacks on Draco, but because it's the one and only good CW set, PvE or PvP, others being underpowered and situational. I cannot imagine why you did get the set for your CW if you don't want to use the 4 piece bonus, because we have no idea which is the original developer intent. What we know is that they intend to change the way it works now, that's all.
Even if you nerf HV I would rather go to do CN with 3 cws or at least 2 because the vast cc+singu+shards plus the way easier end fight against red wizards. Oh and the 2nd boss as well.
I guess poping this one in pvp section rather implies that someone cant kill cws efficiently in pvp matches...
I really doubt that he's skills will improve after any kind of nerf.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Such a fix won't help more diverse party composition.
However, this is also a Combat and Gameplay subforum, besides PvP
If you are unable to develop your skills to kill cws in pvp then start a gwf or tr character and play with it. They are always a nemesis to cws.
Or start a cw itself. They are really fun to play and you won't have problem with HV.
People are complaining about PvE, not PvP. I don't know any PvP team that stacks 3 HV CWs that all go OF in succession on the other guys, but it would be lulzy to see
So the complaints are basically because HV supposedly kills diversity and adds more PvE usefulness to an already insanely useful class, that CCS, dishes out best damage and debuffs as well. Complainers are mostly CWs without the set (yet), GFs and GWFs that cannot find CN parties because 4 spots are already gone in the normal comps and usually a TR is the 5th, although I had some amazing runs with GWFs instead.
Problem is most people will still not bring GFs in CN and still run 3 CWs, because you need to make short work of the nasty adds, and no class does it better than the CW.
My suggestion for complainers is that they actually go ask for BUFFS for their class so they can be more useful in PvE, instead of asking for a HV nerf.
I said it before, and saying it again: the TRs, GWFs and DCs I run CN with all would hate an incoming nerf. Nobody will profit from it. Even you GFs profit from our stacks in other dungeons such as MC and T2s all the time. You want to be kiting adds for 20 mins instead of 5?
Be my guests.
It doesn't matter that all burn enemies faster to dead. Or that any class don't get party. It's a gamebreaking debuffbug and that needs to fix. 3+ of the base damage done is stupid high. It's like the exploits of push/lure Bossmobs to dead or you terrain impossible attackplaces for them. Yeah all the player benefit from this, but this isn't intended by gamedesign. Why you think that debuffs normally don't stack as high as HV does? Because it would show to big damage with that. And nope. I don't think any buffs of any classes can break the CW-dominance itself. Not without breaking PvP. So they need to get down one of the three parts: Debuffs(not the HV, that's only a fix not nerf), CC or damage. I would say damage, then they still dominate the mobs, but the GWF do their damage and the GF help to crowd them and get primary/secondary hitcover.
I see GWFs (with probably tenebrous) to use there instead of TRs.
The CW complainers are all silly because they have no problem at all. Just farm HV for a few days and put down your another set and wait for his time again. They shouldn't put away the nice HV because of some ancient SW set nostalgia or something like that...
Btw I always play an rpg with wizard.(nwn1-2,bg1-2,iwd1-2,da1-2) Really fun to play from the background and see the battle as a whole.
So when u get knocked u Can't do anything but die right, Guys u need to learn DD, and if u havent played a CW then U really don't know what it takes to control ADDs.
Some dungeon has CW preference, some dungeon has TR some others.
Do you hear me crying over the total TR dominance in FH when making a group? No.
But that was annoying as well.
Yeah, CN farmers/exploiters will be sad, big deal, but the rest of the comunty will have it better and more balanced, also GWFs need a boost, i agree, for example removing the 5 targets limit on their AoE, GFs & TRs are almost perfect right now, and DCs must get removed their righterousness, that way, the game will be a lot healthier.