You know what's more unhealthy than running dungeons with exploiters? Blue/useless purple drops from chest.
Besides our wizard class is Control Wizard, what do you expect him to do? Tank? Heal? Or perhaps CC and help with DPS? What good will bring nerf of singu (or CW in overall)? Because I can see only bad things (like getting 3rd CW instead of TR or GF for more cc).
GWF won't be buffed because then people would whine about it in PvP but then again people always whine about what they cannot kill.
PS. CW can easily buff AP gain by attacking controlled targets so that's actually a skill
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
GWF won't be buffed because then people would whine about it in PvP but then again people always whine about what they cannot kill.
There are ways to buff a class in a specific section without breaking either PvP or PvE. You cannot leave GWFs the way they are now in PvE, we need to make them just as useful as other classes. LFG chat should have just as many "LF GWF for" as it has for the other classes. GFs have basically the same issues.
First, we need Dual Spec.
Then we need specific skills that are very good in either PvP or PvE but not both. One such example is a Taunt: it makes the AI attack the caster, but this is obviously useless against human opponents.
This way a player could not pick too many useful PvE skills without becoming irrelevant in PvP and vice-versa. But since the said player would have Dual Spec, this will not be an issue, since players would swap specs for the content they play.
This is not a novel idea or something, WoW has it and it works amazingly good. Actually, before dual specs I was almost purely a PvE raider in WoW, and the introducing of DS allowed me to enjoy both aspects of the game, so what's not to like here?
So please Cryptic, introduce Dual Spec, and specialized PvE/PvP skills. This game has a lot of potential, don't let it go to waste.
pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
I did a MC party today with 3 CWs stacking HV gear... We melted the first boss in under 30 seconds.. 2nd boss would take less than 5 seconds to burn him through a phase.. Maybe 2 minutes to kill him cause can't kill him between phases.. Full run in less than 20 mins
HV stacking is completely out of control!
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
So what, do you want 10 minute kills?
WHY?!?
Better to melt bosses in 30 secs. Then do another run. This method is really needed, considering the bosses have 90% blue drops.
I personally don't take any pleasure in prolonging content that has nothing novel, unrewarding and "on farm" status.
While I agree with this HV is a bit OP lol. We were running 4 CW CTA's yesterday and clearing in like 4-5 minutes =D
On Mindflayer 2+ CW with HV parties are not that common, or you're gonna wait too much to make a pug. Of course if you're in a guild with many geared CWs things change.
When you run with "just" 2 HV CWs, things still melt fast, but not ridiculously fast, so if it's fixed in this zone it will be OK for me. A single CW won't be able to maintain stacks on bosses anyway, because of the nature of the rotation, cool downs, not enough AP generation and blinking a lot of the time to avoid red zones, and 2 CWs will lose stacks often for the same reason.
Of course, they will probably nerf the set so bad that it's sole usefulness will remain PvP.
And for the complainers, you will still not be able to go in CN or wherever there are many adds, because 3 CWs will still be better, so yeah, you guys will hardly accomplish anything.
You peeps that defend this bugg are funny indeed.
Cws are the most used class in the game as per design of the dungeons and class skills no daubt about it.
Now they have a way to increase the dam way beoynd anything else in the game because of a amor set bugg and you defend it its hilarous.
Imagen gwf:s got a way of doing 5x aoe dam compared to cw:s, i can hear the cries and qq:s laud and clear.
Imagen gf:s getting some bugg that made them do dam x5 (look at the cries on LEGAL Stalwart) it would be devastating for all other classes.
The exampels go on but in the end any class with a huge advantage to others that defends that advantage are taking a dump on the other classes.
Dungeons need no tanks what so ever any longer becouse cws dont need a tank to defend them, hell they dont need a dc to heal them any more either they just melt anyting from distance.
AND YOU DEFEND THIS with its faster doing dungeons and that benifits everybody.
Well guess what they DO NOT GO FASTER COUSE YOU CANT GET INTO ANY DUNGEONS AS ANY OTHER CLASS, soon all that will be left is cws melting mobs and killing bosses in a couple of min.
I guess the majority of gamers must be of 10-12 years it does explain alot.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
I dont think anyone (other than a few tards) are defending hv. Some of us are simply saying that you will still have 3cw groups after the nerf because cws are the best aoe dmg class that also happens to lock down everything via cc while aoeing, and it has nothing to do with hv. The dungeon design/redesign that was meant to boost gwf by making us kill huge packs of adds instead caused cws to realize they do 2x the aoe dmg of gwf and control everything while doing it, so 3cw groups will still reign supreme post hv nerf. The only thing that will change is you will need to bring a tr now for single target dps on bosses. Without hv stacks cw lack the single target dps to burn down bosses and control adds. Where as now with the hv stacks cw can kill bosses using aoe spells/at wills because they are hitting for 10x normal damage on everything.
Also you dont seem to understand how hv debuff works. Everyone attacking the boss has boosted damage not just cws. Clerics are hitting 200k flame strikes (an aoe attack fyi).
You really only need 1 cw to stack hv if that is his only job. To be safe you bring 2. The reason you bring 3+ cws is the trash clearing before the bosses, as cw are the most efficient way to clear trash. It has nothing to do with hv. 3 cws in t1 gear are practically just as efficient at clearing trash as hv cws. Nothing lives long enough for any amount of stacks to build.
All of this is because gwfs complained that 2 slots in groups were reserved for cw cus sing + shield + ledge was the most efficient way to clear dungeons. The devs listened and nerfed shield ap so they couldnt sing every pull and nerfed most of the ledges. That forced cws to use other aoe attacks, which is when they realized a)cw dps dwarfs gwf, and b) its actually faster to kill everything than to push, as long as you have enough cws.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
AND YOU DEFEND THIS with its faster doing dungeons and that benifits everybody.
Well guess what they DO NOT GO FASTER COUSE YOU CANT GET INTO ANY DUNGEONS AS ANY OTHER CLASS, soon all that will be left is cws melting mobs and killing bosses in a couple of min.
I guess the majority of gamers must be of 10-12 years it does explain alot.
If you can't get into a dungeon:
- you're a GF that wants in CN
- you are a low skill/gear person. Improve and it will be fine.
So stop lying about how OMG you can't get into dungeons as any other class but CW, it's ridiculous. Who do you think heals us? Who does single target damage on bosses? Yeah we can fill these roles but it's way less than ideal.
As for the "10-12 years olds" ad hominem, it was quite lame.
- you're a GF that wants in CN
- you are a low skill/gear person. Improve and it will be fine.
Let us say the classes are equal divided by players that is 10cw 10gf etc etc and that groups contain 3+cs:s becouse of broken mechanics + dungeons design. Now if you can count how much room is there in groups for all the others players compared to cw:s?
So stop lying about how OMG you can't get into dungeons as any other class but CW, it's ridiculous. Who do you think heals us? Who does single target damage on bosses? Yeah we can fill these roles but it's way less than ideal.
I done spider, karru epic, pirate and allmost all t1 without a dc, its not like you need a dc exept for like 3-4 dungeons of all out there. Sure they have a role to make it easer for cw:s to survive and fit better with he pattern of how you clear dungeons with 3cw groups. Now you exlude gwf and gf as is it *look at inthefade462 comment above* adding defence for the broken mechanics of the hv set was what i was commenting on.
The dungeons need redesign i think most of the community agree on that. This endless clearing of mobs and boss more then boring and lack of imagination mechanics of endless mob spawning is the if not solo so major reason to why the group set ups are as they are.
I am not a fan of nerfing any class i rather see more diverced way of making dungeons. Totally different Boss mechanics where you need different kind of tactics not just burn boss kill adds etc etc.
But if one class has all tools of an other class that is needed in a dungeon or if one class lacks any ability to truly make it worth taking in a group then something should be done about it.
Anybody defending anything which makes cw:s even more efficent to have in groups is in need of an reality check or just a troll. Defending a broken mechanic that gives even more reason to stack 3-4 in a group is just plain immature (hence 12 year old-i want my candy).
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
So in the end you actually can get in groups, you just exaggerated to make your point seem more valid.
Right.
I play with amazing GWFs, GFs and TRs and DCs each day. I wouldn't trade them for another CW. Our usual comp is 2 HV CWs/GWF or GF/DC and somebody else from /lfg. I do CN with some GWFs that can match me on dps (until it's mob pushing time) just for an example.
So basically every class has a place in our group and they perform it well most of the times. The situation is not so dire as people seem to make it.
HV set is not only thing what need nerf cw as class do way to much damage they nerfed dps of GWF and TR a lot but they did not nerf CW so CW is atm a lot better dps then tr and gwf
So in the end you actually can get in groups, you just exaggerated to make your point seem more valid.
I am 13.7 gwf in a guild and have np what so ever to get groups inside guild. Going lfg as a gwf is a time waste, we are just not needed.
My point isent for my own sake, if you discuss this from your own personal points of how you play the game with your friends your points are less then valid for others.
Go gwf or gf and as many others dont form groups with friends to play just go lfg as many many others have to do. Once you got tired of that put hours and hours and hours of work into the char to get bis gear join an elite guild only to find out that after a patch your not longer needed in groups becouse they do it so much better without you.
Cw groups has absolutly no use what so ever for either gf or gwfs (expluded some rare occations on whish they can handle it with just a bit more pushing bottons).
Now give them a broken armor that further pushes the need for others in group doesent seam like a good thing to defend to me does it to you??
Lets say next class is a ranger that does all tr does but better at a range not even needing to get close the boss, hell give them some really nice traps that cc bunches of mobs and stops them dead in tracks from getting to the casters. Think tr:s would end up in same situation, I sure do.....
*On a side note if you want to get money from players abadonding their old tr to buy new gear for the ranger maby its the smart thing to do and i think that is exactly what they will do.
Is it ok from the playing populations situation -hardly.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Thing is, the discussion is redundant anyway. HV is gonna get nerfed, and your GWF will STILL have issues finding a /lfg party if it has now, because the number of adds will remain the same, HV or not, and 3 CWs will still be the norm for most.
All that you will achieve is that the runs that once took 30 mins will now take an hour+ for quite a few people. Quite an accomplishment.
I'm saying it again:
NWO content is not the type to be enjoyed and savored each tiny piece, like a delicacy. It's just not good enough. It's also old and we are kinda bored of running it daily.
Do not try to make runs last more than they should. I remember when WoW came with faster, shorter heroics, and the small raids such as Ony and so on. Very good stuff.
I don't wanna stay in CN with the spiders&undead too much. They're creepy
I'm starting to think that the best way to fix the issue is to hard cap the dungeon parties to 1 of each toon, probably that will bring a huge outrage on some players, and will remove some liberty that is inherent to DnD, but will overhaul the metagame, force comunity to relearn how to play and defeat dungeons (only 3-4 CWs i know can solo push in draco) and all the classes and players will feel they're needed and wanted.
if they make a party with 1 of each class, then at the end of the run you get some bonus like a 2nd chest? then I am sure ppl will 'relearn' their game to include 1 of each class.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
1 of each class and chest is always unlocked and loot is BOE
How do you know it's a bug? Please post dev reference it is supposed to stack 3 times only.
"Fighters" (i.e. GFs) still won' have a place in CN. GFs can't jump...
it is a bug because if you go over some stacks the enemy stops taking danage...stop trying to make excuses you big , big baby and play the game fair end of story
All I see is big flippin' babies here... Nerf this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and let's go home 'kay? if you want to play and win while cheating buy an action replay for your console and get the hell out of here? ^_^
All I see is big flippin' babies here... Nerf this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and let's go home 'kay? if you want to play and win while cheating buy an action replay for your console and get the hell out of here? ^_^
You just went full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ^_^ ?
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Sigh madcat... you triple-replied to a deceased topic, singled out my posts for some reason, and still have no idea that HV is "fixed" for weeks.
I play the game fair. I use what I have at my disposal to make the path to loot shorter.
And don't you worry, my CW is just as OP as it was before the HV nerf
Comments
Besides our wizard class is Control Wizard, what do you expect him to do? Tank? Heal? Or perhaps CC and help with DPS? What good will bring nerf of singu (or CW in overall)? Because I can see only bad things (like getting 3rd CW instead of TR or GF for more cc).
GWF won't be buffed because then people would whine about it in PvP but then again people always whine about what they cannot kill.
PS. CW can easily buff AP gain by attacking controlled targets so that's actually a skill
There are ways to buff a class in a specific section without breaking either PvP or PvE. You cannot leave GWFs the way they are now in PvE, we need to make them just as useful as other classes. LFG chat should have just as many "LF GWF for" as it has for the other classes. GFs have basically the same issues.
First, we need Dual Spec.
Then we need specific skills that are very good in either PvP or PvE but not both. One such example is a Taunt: it makes the AI attack the caster, but this is obviously useless against human opponents.
This way a player could not pick too many useful PvE skills without becoming irrelevant in PvP and vice-versa. But since the said player would have Dual Spec, this will not be an issue, since players would swap specs for the content they play.
This is not a novel idea or something, WoW has it and it works amazingly good. Actually, before dual specs I was almost purely a PvE raider in WoW, and the introducing of DS allowed me to enjoy both aspects of the game, so what's not to like here?
So please Cryptic, introduce Dual Spec, and specialized PvE/PvP skills. This game has a lot of potential, don't let it go to waste.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
HV stacking is completely out of control!
WHY?!?
Better to melt bosses in 30 secs. Then do another run. This method is really needed, considering the bosses have 90% blue drops.
I personally don't take any pleasure in prolonging content that has nothing novel, unrewarding and "on farm" status.
While I agree with this HV is a bit OP lol. We were running 4 CW CTA's yesterday and clearing in like 4-5 minutes =D
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
On Mindflayer 2+ CW with HV parties are not that common, or you're gonna wait too much to make a pug. Of course if you're in a guild with many geared CWs things change.
When you run with "just" 2 HV CWs, things still melt fast, but not ridiculously fast, so if it's fixed in this zone it will be OK for me. A single CW won't be able to maintain stacks on bosses anyway, because of the nature of the rotation, cool downs, not enough AP generation and blinking a lot of the time to avoid red zones, and 2 CWs will lose stacks often for the same reason.
Of course, they will probably nerf the set so bad that it's sole usefulness will remain PvP.
And for the complainers, you will still not be able to go in CN or wherever there are many adds, because 3 CWs will still be better, so yeah, you guys will hardly accomplish anything.
MC is completely ok with gf or gwf too. If he can kill Valindra fast or one-shot her too.
Cws are the most used class in the game as per design of the dungeons and class skills no daubt about it.
Now they have a way to increase the dam way beoynd anything else in the game because of a amor set bugg and you defend it its hilarous.
Imagen gwf:s got a way of doing 5x aoe dam compared to cw:s, i can hear the cries and qq:s laud and clear.
Imagen gf:s getting some bugg that made them do dam x5 (look at the cries on LEGAL Stalwart) it would be devastating for all other classes.
The exampels go on but in the end any class with a huge advantage to others that defends that advantage are taking a dump on the other classes.
Dungeons need no tanks what so ever any longer becouse cws dont need a tank to defend them, hell they dont need a dc to heal them any more either they just melt anyting from distance.
AND YOU DEFEND THIS with its faster doing dungeons and that benifits everybody.
Well guess what they DO NOT GO FASTER COUSE YOU CANT GET INTO ANY DUNGEONS AS ANY OTHER CLASS, soon all that will be left is cws melting mobs and killing bosses in a couple of min.
I guess the majority of gamers must be of 10-12 years it does explain alot.
Also you dont seem to understand how hv debuff works. Everyone attacking the boss has boosted damage not just cws. Clerics are hitting 200k flame strikes (an aoe attack fyi).
You really only need 1 cw to stack hv if that is his only job. To be safe you bring 2. The reason you bring 3+ cws is the trash clearing before the bosses, as cw are the most efficient way to clear trash. It has nothing to do with hv. 3 cws in t1 gear are practically just as efficient at clearing trash as hv cws. Nothing lives long enough for any amount of stacks to build.
All of this is because gwfs complained that 2 slots in groups were reserved for cw cus sing + shield + ledge was the most efficient way to clear dungeons. The devs listened and nerfed shield ap so they couldnt sing every pull and nerfed most of the ledges. That forced cws to use other aoe attacks, which is when they realized a)cw dps dwarfs gwf, and b) its actually faster to kill everything than to push, as long as you have enough cws.
If you can't get into a dungeon:
- you're a GF that wants in CN
- you are a low skill/gear person. Improve and it will be fine.
So stop lying about how OMG you can't get into dungeons as any other class but CW, it's ridiculous. Who do you think heals us? Who does single target damage on bosses? Yeah we can fill these roles but it's way less than ideal.
As for the "10-12 years olds" ad hominem, it was quite lame.
Let us say the classes are equal divided by players that is 10cw 10gf etc etc and that groups contain 3+cs:s becouse of broken mechanics + dungeons design. Now if you can count how much room is there in groups for all the others players compared to cw:s?
I done spider, karru epic, pirate and allmost all t1 without a dc, its not like you need a dc exept for like 3-4 dungeons of all out there. Sure they have a role to make it easer for cw:s to survive and fit better with he pattern of how you clear dungeons with 3cw groups. Now you exlude gwf and gf as is it *look at inthefade462 comment above* adding defence for the broken mechanics of the hv set was what i was commenting on.
The dungeons need redesign i think most of the community agree on that. This endless clearing of mobs and boss more then boring and lack of imagination mechanics of endless mob spawning is the if not solo so major reason to why the group set ups are as they are.
I am not a fan of nerfing any class i rather see more diverced way of making dungeons. Totally different Boss mechanics where you need different kind of tactics not just burn boss kill adds etc etc.
But if one class has all tools of an other class that is needed in a dungeon or if one class lacks any ability to truly make it worth taking in a group then something should be done about it.
Anybody defending anything which makes cw:s even more efficent to have in groups is in need of an reality check or just a troll. Defending a broken mechanic that gives even more reason to stack 3-4 in a group is just plain immature (hence 12 year old-i want my candy).
Right.
I play with amazing GWFs, GFs and TRs and DCs each day. I wouldn't trade them for another CW. Our usual comp is 2 HV CWs/GWF or GF/DC and somebody else from /lfg. I do CN with some GWFs that can match me on dps (until it's mob pushing time) just for an example.
So basically every class has a place in our group and they perform it well most of the times. The situation is not so dire as people seem to make it.
I am 13.7 gwf in a guild and have np what so ever to get groups inside guild. Going lfg as a gwf is a time waste, we are just not needed.
My point isent for my own sake, if you discuss this from your own personal points of how you play the game with your friends your points are less then valid for others.
Go gwf or gf and as many others dont form groups with friends to play just go lfg as many many others have to do. Once you got tired of that put hours and hours and hours of work into the char to get bis gear join an elite guild only to find out that after a patch your not longer needed in groups becouse they do it so much better without you.
Cw groups has absolutly no use what so ever for either gf or gwfs (expluded some rare occations on whish they can handle it with just a bit more pushing bottons).
Now give them a broken armor that further pushes the need for others in group doesent seam like a good thing to defend to me does it to you??
Lets say next class is a ranger that does all tr does but better at a range not even needing to get close the boss, hell give them some really nice traps that cc bunches of mobs and stops them dead in tracks from getting to the casters. Think tr:s would end up in same situation, I sure do.....
*On a side note if you want to get money from players abadonding their old tr to buy new gear for the ranger maby its the smart thing to do and i think that is exactly what they will do.
Is it ok from the playing populations situation -hardly.
All that you will achieve is that the runs that once took 30 mins will now take an hour+ for quite a few people. Quite an accomplishment.
I'm saying it again:
NWO content is not the type to be enjoyed and savored each tiny piece, like a delicacy. It's just not good enough. It's also old and we are kinda bored of running it daily.
Do not try to make runs last more than they should. I remember when WoW came with faster, shorter heroics, and the small raids such as Ony and so on. Very good stuff.
I don't wanna stay in CN with the spiders&undead too much. They're creepy
it is a bug because if you go over some stacks the enemy stops taking danage...stop trying to make excuses you big , big baby and play the game fair
EVERY MMO in the world we know has a "farm" status at the endgame...
You just went full <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ^_^ ?
I play the game fair. I use what I have at my disposal to make the path to loot shorter.
And don't you worry, my CW is just as OP as it was before the HV nerf