Stayin' Alive

neskolf · September 2013

Hey, folks. As mentioned in another thread, I'm pretty new to MMOs in general with NW being my first experience. One of the things I've noticed is there is no real punishment for 'dying'. And I get it. It's not really in the game and its community's interests to have prohibitive penalties for getting wiped in a dungeon or some such. Who in their right mind would take their time to get a character to top level if it can be taken away because of a poor grouping, having to be called afk at the wrong time, etc.?

That said, how easy/hard/impossible is it to get to 60 without a 'death' assuming that one plays the PVE content through the standard questlines/skirmishes/dungeons? I have two char slots and I'm considering devoting one of those slots to trying this. But if the consensus is that it's either impossible or ridiculously easy then I'm not going to bother.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

reiwulf · September 2013

Most current MMO's don't punish you much when dying, in here yo get wounded, and have to walk from the nearest spawnpoint. I don't know how hard it is to get to max lv without getting killed, I know that I couldn't make it already for sure XD

aquillazx · September 2013

Most questlines should be easy enough depending on your class I guess. For dungeons / skirmishes most of them are fairly easy to do up to 60. There's a few that could be hard if your group isn't very good though.

beckylunatic · September 2013

It would be quite an accomplishment to get through all the skirmishes and dungeons without dying even once, with pick up groups. In the solo main questline, I think most of my deaths have come from really stupid things like AFKing too close to a spawn point or walking off a cliff.

Also, you'd have to decide for yourself if using the /killme command to get unstuck from terrain would count or not. It happens to pretty much everyone sooner or later.

neskolf · September 2013

beckylunatic wrote: »

Also, you'd have to decide for yourself if using the /killme command to get unstuck from terrain would count or not. It happens to pretty much everyone sooner or later.

No, I wouldn't count incidents where the game glitched. That said, I would count dungeon runs since the inherent risk is a known when deciding to make the run.

beckylunatic · September 2013

Oh yeah, I guess death-by-disconnect wouldn't count either for an honour-system hardcore playthrough. That's only happened to me once.

yyrkoonstyphoon · September 2013

one of my friends has done this on his TR, however, he is a fan of the AH and would use his diamonds from rhix to get the best gear he could, and slotted things up (i never unslot anything, less expensive to buy a new one.)

I have 3 toons that are 60 and 2 that are high 40s low 50s (48 and 51 i thnk) and they all have died. I am not very caustious and i never buy gear off the AH.

so doable yes, easy no.

neskolf · September 2013

yyrkoonstyphoon wrote: »

one of my friends has done this on his TR, however, he is a fan of the AH and would use his diamonds from rhix to get the best gear he could, and slotted things up (i never unslot anything, less expensive to buy a new one.)

I have 3 toons that are 60 and 2 that are high 40s low 50s (48 and 51 i thnk) and they all have died. I am not very caustious and i never buy gear off the AH.

so doable yes, easy no.

That's another good point. If I were to try it, I wouldn't look to augment through the AH purchases, just get by on what drops or can be purchased through seals. Not bagging on those that use the AH, it just wouldn't feel right to me.

Appreciate all the responses so far....even those mentioning perfect digestive products.

slayorian · September 2013

Shouldn't be too hard as long as you know what you're doing and don't have any nasty lag spikes at the wrong time.

yyrkoonstyphoon · September 2013

neskolf wrote: »

That's another good point. If I were to try it, I wouldn't look to augment through the AH purchases, just get by on what drops or can be purchased through seals. Not bagging on those that use the AH, it just wouldn't feel right to me.

Appreciate all the responses so far....even those mentioning perfect digestive products.

if you earn AD through questing, why is it any different than other in game currency? That is like saying i will not use gold or seals, it is all earned currency.

tang56 · September 2013

I died once on my GF(ebon down burrows), three times on my CW(ebon downs burrows) and 12 times on my DC(ebon downs and chasm).

Shouldn't be to hard if you understand the class, but if it's your first time with the class, I'd expect to die at least once.

beckylunatic · September 2013

Just a note on tang56's post, the respawns and patrols in Ebon Downs are crazypants.

I have only ever ended up questing through that area while overlevelled enough to be ignored, and I've rescued more than one player who was getting absolutely swarmed.

neskolf · September 2013

yyrkoonstyphoon wrote: »

if you earn AD through questing, why is it any different than other in game currency? That is like saying i will not use gold or seals, it is all earned currency.

Can you earn substantial AD through the standard quests, though? I've only made it to Helm's Hold and I don't recall any of the quests providing a return of AD. I can gain a few hundred a day through invoking or doing low level leadership tasks. But, and correct me if I'm mistaken, I don't think that amount will get me better quality gear than what's going to drop through those levels.

I suppose a few thousand AD can be earned if you time the dungeons or skirmishes right as dailies. But I don't want to farm with this, if that makes any sense in this context.

tang56 · September 2013

neskolf wrote: »

Can you earn substantial AD through the standard quests, though? I've only made it to Helm's Hold and I don't recall any of the quests providing a return of AD. I can gain a few hundred a day through invoking or doing low level leadership tasks. But, and correct me if I'm mistaken, I don't think that amount will get me better quality gear than what's going to drop through those levels.

I suppose a few thousand AD can be earned if you time the dungeons or skirmishes right as dailies. But I don't want to farm with this, if that makes any sense in this context.

Daily Rhix tasks award around 1k at sub L30 and gradually increases to 4k per task(or so) at L60. When I finished leveling my DC I had around 150k and I didn't do my dailies all the time.

neskolf · September 2013

tang56 wrote: »

Daily Rhix tasks award around 1k at sub L30 and gradually increases to 4k per task(or so) at L60. When I finished leveling my DC I had around 150k and I didn't do my dailies all the time.

Thanks, tang56. But as you were levelling up, were those incremental amounts enough to purchase gear through the AH that was of superior quality than would be found through drops at a comparable level? If that's the case, then yrrkoonstyphoon would be right that I'm discounting something I shouldn't.

Edit: I have also taken note per your previous post and that of becky's that I should be very wary upon getting to Ebon Downs.

sasheria · September 2013

I try to remember a game where there were hardcore MMO mechanics. You are allow up to 3 deaths a day (reset each day) beyond that, you are perma dead (deletion) the 3 death covers lag spikes, stupidity*, or just plain bad luck

*stupidity mainly cover things like going left instead of right. Or seeing an incoming attack and YOU KNOW you suppose to dodge but had a brain <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and forgot and died. (that happen to me once in a while)

tang56 · September 2013

neskolf wrote: »

Thanks, tang56. But as you were levelling up, were those incremental amounts enough to purchase gear through the AH that was of superior quality than would be found through drops at a comparable level? If that's the case, then yrrkoonstyphoon would be right that I'm discounting something I shouldn't.

Edit: I have also taken note per your previous post and that of becky's that I should be very wary upon getting to Ebon Downs.

Yep. A couple thousand AD goes a long, long way at the lower levels. Not that there's much bonus to using AH blues until the chasm upwards.

neskolf · September 2013

tang56 wrote: »

Yep. A couple thousand AD goes a long, long way at the lower levels. Not that there's much bonus to using AH blues until the chasm upwards.

Interesting. Thanks again, tang56. I'll have to take a closer look at the AH. Based on what I have been reading on the forums, I figured it was an exchange aimed more towards rare/high end gear, tools, etc. and thus priced out of my current level. And thanks again for all of the responses.

sockmunkey · September 2013

neskolf wrote: »

Edit: I have also taken note per your previous post and that of becky's that I should be very wary upon getting to Ebon Downs.

The real test for most players isnt Ebon Downs, but Pirates Skyhold. Depending on your class, it can be a fairly frustrating zone. Even the solo dungeons can be show stoppers. Of the three count on at least one being a pain for the class you are playing. Each one seems to be custom made to murder a specific class or play style. You either have Scalefeather's AoE poison and bruiser adds. The ghost pirate's unblockable life drain (this one was miserable to play as a guardian) Or the last boss who summons an endless stream of striker pets on top of the normal endless stream of adds. (If you cant AoE, you will get swarmed)

If you can cruise past skyhold without death and in style, feel free to pat yourself on the back.

Just try not to get too cocky, other challenges will still await.

neskolf · September 2013

Well, you guys weren't kidding about Ebon Downs. Holy smoke! I spent the last couple of days levelling a GF. Got him to 35 and was feeling pretty good about things. Got into Ebon Downs and was actually doing pretty well against the mobs in there. Letting the mobs close in and then using a Villian's Menace/Enforced Threat quick combo was actually pretty darned effective.

And then I ran into the grave robbers in the Temple of Kelemvor Crypt. One of them (I'm assuming the equivalent of a GWF) literally pushed me into a pit filled with spikes and that was that. Insta-dead which, while logical, I suppose, still kind of peeved me. What an ignominious end! The shame of it all.....

tang56 · September 2013

sockmunkey wrote: »

The real test for most players isnt Ebon Downs, but Pirates Skyhold. Depending on your class, it can be a fairly frustrating zone. Even the solo dungeons can be show stoppers. Of the three count on at least one being a pain for the class you are playing. Each one seems to be custom made to murder a specific class or play style. You either have Scalefeather's AoE poison and bruiser adds. The ghost pirate's unblockable life drain (this one was miserable to play as a guardian) Or the last boss who summons an endless stream of striker pets on top of the normal endless stream of adds. (If you cant AoE, you will get swarmed)

If you can cruise past skyhold without death and in style, feel free to pat yourself on the back.

Just try not to get too cocky, other challenges will still await.

Scalefather is getting nerfed cording to the preview patch notes. They're replacing the elite level brusier adds with trash minions.

sockmunkey · September 2013

tang56 wrote: »

Scalefather is getting nerfed cording to the preview patch notes. They're replacing the elite level brusier adds with trash minions.

Yea, I read that shortly after I posed. Go figure

They are also nerfing Scoundrels Retreat a bit as well.

I guess enough folks complained about the difficulty spike to warrant a fix. Wonder how long it will be before the Rime Hound gets looked at?

lewstelamon01 · September 2013

I'd say thank (insert deity of choice here). I lost count of how many times I died to Scalefather on my CW....I wanted to punch a hole in my screen.

And yes PLEASE look at the Rime Hound.

fovrel · September 2013

My basic tactics are to pull a boss mob out of its spawn zone and fight it in an area where you can take cover, where there are objects, and or traps, fires. You can kite the mob around and evade things, but the AI is mostly not that clever. The spawn zone will always bring up adds to. The boss mob will do it too, but it looks to me there are two systems in these kind of fights, area spawns and boss spawns.

The adds can be the real pain. A lot of trash mobs are in most cases a bigger threat than one big hard hitting one. Especially when there are cc effects used. I have killed star mobs without getting a cratch, simply by not letting it hit me and that is something I cannot accomplish when fighting a group. There is always something that hits me.

BTW I play a level 50 GWF and a level 50 TR, perhaps a control wizzard has it easy with groups of trash mobs.

vrtesseract · September 2013

kudos to your personal challenge, the issue with auction house pricing is often people under or overprice things so you have an element of luck here. if you don't play the market and limit spending to what you get on dailies it probably wont give you to much of a advantage. but leveling 1-max without using AH or zen would almost seem like a different sort of ironman challenge

bioshrike · September 2013

I've had the most trouble w/ Captain Kayliss and the Rimehound while playing. I would say not to go too deep into this self-imposed hardcore mode until after you've played all the way through the regular campaign at least once.

I would also be wary of trying epic dungeons if you were going this route - some teams will intentionally use suicide runs to shave time of their runs.

If and when you do begin this journey, I'd highly recommend you keep plenty of the buffing potions around - that little extra defense or recovery can go a long way.

diogene0 · September 2013

You can make a character without dying, as long as you have a lot of experience of the game, but you won't do many risky, stupid, or silly, ie. fun, stuff. It's not fun to me to be extremely cautious while playing. Just run ahead and kill your monsters, it will be fine most of the times.

vortix44 · September 2013

neskolf wrote: »

to get to 60 without a 'death' assuming that one plays the PVE content through the standard questlines/skirmishes/dungeons

Interesting and worthy challenge. I think if you decide to give it a try then you should put some emphasis on it by creating a dedicated thred with your daily progress. I'd say, dont do group quests/dungeons. Once one or two folks die, all the group dies. Also there are the bugs. Sometimes your screen freezes for 10-15 seconds. You'r not disconnected, the mobs on the server are sill hitting you but your scrren is frozen, and once it returns to normal you discover that you're dead.
Also you may want to clarify some points such as
Will you use potions?
Will you get XP by invoking/professions?
Will you use a healing pet?
Will you gear with Zen or only with what you loot?

Playing a gwf, without hp potions, without a pet, without cash shop, without help from your main char, gearing up and enchanting only with what you loot. Getting XP only from the regular PvE quests, no foundries, no professions. And raising the char up to lvl 60 without one single death.
Definitely a challenge.

fallout1111 · September 2013

Death punishments are waning in MMO's, they've been on the decline since the MUD era (1990's) since they punish players for risking/trying things. Risk-adverse players are a death sentence to any MMO.

tang56 · September 2013

sockmunkey wrote: »

Yea, I read that shortly after I posed. Go figure

They are also nerfing Scoundrels Retreat a bit as well.

I guess enough folks complained about the difficulty spike to warrant a fix. Wonder how long it will be before the Rime Hound gets looked at?

I thought they were all fine tbh. A couple of the barrow lords in ED were my nemesis. Not enough room to dodge.

bpskibbenheims · September 2013

The sure fire way to 60 without dieing would be to race to lvl 10 and then just do leadership and never leave PE ... Lol I have a lvl 30 from this. It would be so cheese though to claim it as a "hardcore" like achievement.

100% quest completion with 0 deaths would be quite the feat.

Stayin' Alive

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