I think this is EXACTLY the design theory. It also exists in other games, but it's an extreme here. Some people play and pay in order to feel powerful and feed their sociopathic tendencies by defeating other players who are severely disadvantaged. Game companies capitalize on this.
I am of the mind we should get together and threaten them with making all the totally, absolutely game-breaking exploits public knowledge unless they stop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> us over. Seriously, some of them I've seen could crash the market in a day. Some are DC specific, and honestly, if they were public knowledge, half the people online would be DC's. heh
(If we start making unruly comments, we might at least get a Community Leader to reply to us, even if it's just to say he's closing the thread. haha)
As we learned quite recently with the Lockbox Nightmare mount giveaway, it is okay to exploit and to profit from exploiting an issue. You will be just considered to be a 'lucky' recipient of the proceeds of exploiting the issue (as approved by Cryptic). So post those known issues for DC's to use. It is not likely we are going to earn loot any other way.
The mods have been keeping an eye on this to make sure we're behaving; one of them edited the thread title (which used to be "ATTN: Devs Re: Hammer of Fate nerf" -- was ATTN: offensive or something? I'm sorry? O_o). I'm cool with them not posting even though I know at least one of them plays a DC. Really: if they post saying they disagree, they know we'll just get mad and drama ensues. If they post saying they agree and want it changed back, it makes things weird for them to stay impartial as mods on it. Maybe I'm wrong; I was once an admin of a totally different forum under much different circumstances and it's been a long time, but one thing you learn from that is that sometimes it's better to observe in silence when people feel strongly about things that could go into flames if you poke in the wrong direction.
That said, you're welcome to do whatever you want for dungeons etc., but please no exploits or general rule-breaking. I don't want to cause trouble with this thread -- I just want HoF back.
I still would like to know what do they think about it and if they are going to do anything.
As we learned quite recently with the Lockbox Nightmare mount giveaway, it is okay to exploit and to profit from exploiting an issue. You will be just considered to be a 'lucky' recipient of the proceeds of exploiting the issue (as approved by Cryptic). So post those known issues for DC's to use. It is not likely we are going to earn loot any other way.
Except last night, a whole slew of people got banned for quest-sharing the weekly quest in Sharandar. Arcane Reservoir I believe it's called. I actually did it a couple times to help out some guildies, and I guess I figured it could be abused but they must have targeted people who did it many times. Certainly not what I'd consider a bannable exploit, especially considering the recent "lucky" response to the lockbox bug. The quest-sharing thing has been around forever, too. They could surely fix sharing if it was that big of a deal for them. So am I "lucky" if Syndryth decides to jump to her death, or am I setting myself up to get banned?
Oh! Odd thing about the Hammer, I wonder if anyone else has noticed. If you try to use it without enough AP, you don't get the normal red warning and error sound saying that you don't have enough AP. It just silently fails.
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reshaimMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited August 2013
Meh, after all the things that are going on, plus the ban hammer of yesterday. Me and some guildmates decided to try DDO Stormreach.
And by the way considering the fact that each and every dungeon in this game got at least one or more exploit (and the people abuse them instead of learning how to play PVE, although i must conceed that the dungeon difficulty is really badly balanced), i'm simply amazed that this game still has a playerbase and that there was no ban for that kind of exploit.
If they really don't want the exploit to be used then all they have to do is fix'em but, as we all know, there are a lot of exploits that are still around from a long time ago.
Nothing was fixed except what directly affect their business, and that's ok because we're talking about a company here.
But, if the Nightmare Lockbox exploit was considered "lucky", without any kind of result for those who used it, then how come a the same kind of mistake (because surely no user played with the game source code), resulted in a ban for some users?
Simply put, the Arcane Reservoir bug didn't made the players buy anything (different from the Nightmare Lockbox that required they key).
As i've said we're talking about a business company.
Only that.
I was hoping for a fix! Are we posting in the right places? Do the mods actually take our feedback to the developers? I hope that the community moderators are doing their jobs. If they're not, it's time for new moderators who can successfully carry our feedback to the game developers.
I joined NW as a cleric mainly for roleplaying purposes, but I would love to be able to PVP or at least survive solo-questing without having to beg for a party at each new quest. It's fun in parties and leveling is much quicker, but I'd like to believe that I'm contributing to the party. At this point, sadly, I am not. It's very discouraging.
I understand that this is a "free" game and that the developers are working hard. But I don't think this issue is a product of general "whining." Please, developers, take this issue to heart. NW's clerics are a disappearing race.
the world is not beautiful; therefore, it is. - kino no tabi
I was hoping for a fix! Are we posting in the right places? Do the mods actually take our feedback to the developers?
One mod promised to talk to the devs, but surprisingly he is from the French part of the forums. Thing is, that there are a few clerics out there, and even fewer of them post on forums, so mods see same people posting in current threads about DC-related issues. I believe that they don't take our feedback seriously. But we need to keep these threads active, and need more people actually posting and asking them to tell devs that we want them to revert nerfs. Afaik, rogues did it, but there are a lot of rogues and they don't afraid to react viciously to every attempt to nerf their class. Neither should we, unless you feel like leaving the game for greener pastures.
Actually, I am thinking about leaving this game. Would be shame tho, they have few cool things, like foundry (great idea). But if they keep doing terrible things to my favourite class, I'd have no choice.
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reshaimMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited August 2013
I've wrote a post about Forgemaster Flame and Flamestrike issues in the bug section, could you please share your thoughts there also?
Thanks!
I think we should all run around in 5-cleric premades. Domination isn't about KILLING, after all, right? So we'd just make unkillable teams that bore the other side to death.
It would at least be a change from the usual PvP experience.
I've done a 4 cleric 1 rogue game. We did terrible damage but didn't die once. When they focused all on a single player we would just blue-light heal him. The weak cleric heal problem is not much of a problem with two clerics working together, very hard to kill if they are specced as defensive healbots.
I was hoping for a fix! Are we posting in the right places? Do the mods actually take our feedback to the developers? I hope that the community moderators are doing their jobs. If they're not, it's time for new moderators who can successfully carry our feedback to the game developers.
I joined NW as a cleric mainly for roleplaying purposes, but I would love to be able to PVP or at least survive solo-questing without having to beg for a party at each new quest. It's fun in parties and leveling is much quicker, but I'd like to believe that I'm contributing to the party. At this point, sadly, I am not. It's very discouraging.
I understand that this is a "free" game and that the developers are working hard. But I don't think this issue is a product of general "whining." Please, developers, take this issue to heart. NW's clerics are a disappearing race.
My main and 1st level 60 was my cleric. (always my favorite class) My 1st toon in BW1 was also a DC. My cleric holds my enchants/wards/stuff and does Leadership tasks after daily prayers. I play my CW every day. I have 1 of every class at 60 and play them all on occassion, except my original main, the DC. I will not play him again until Cryptic wakes up. I love this game and support it often, but the way they treat the DC is ridiculous. I wonder what will happen when everyone comes to the same place I am at.....
Nah, it is still plenty of clerics out there. Suprizingly, some of them are still using HoF (but then, there is not much for an alternative)
Mostly I still use HoF because I don't have anything better to use.
While we are on the topic of cleric dailies How about buffing Guardian of Faith so that is can actually be useful? It is incredible weak both as damage and as healing and in it's current form is completely useless. Also un nerf HoF, It doesn't have the damage now to be used as an execute so the AP on kill is really only for when you take less then 3 hits to kill your target.
I would rather think people are still using it out of habit, but what do I know? I wasn't using it much before the nerf, because it requires skill (yeah, I'm still quite a noo... newbie) and Flame Strike doesnt, but my plan was to learn how to use it in proper way. But now? It's not worth effort
I recently heard that clerics are supposed to be punchbags so why do we even care about HoF ?
They should simply remove it.
Why did they give us such an offensive power in the first place ?
Clerics should have no dailies. Clerics are OP in their design.
Yeah, in fact shouldn't clerics stay on their shrine of god and pray?
New proposal of a daily: Summon shrine - summon a shrine for 5 minutes that heals 40% less then a normal shrine. Up on summon, the cleric takes damage. Because we think that this ability is quite powerfull, the cleric is dazed for 30 min beeing not able to use any power. Every rank increase the damage to the cleric by 50%. At last rank, the power has the ability to crit and instantly sacrifiy the cleric to their deity.
Come to think of it, it would be cool to have some kind of "faithful focus" passive that would increase CC resistance, but I could see that getting out of hand for a halfling DC (IIRC they have racial CC resistance -- I think my halfling CW does).
That said, Hammer of Fate is still underpowered, underwhelming, and needs that 40% damage back. Come on, it doesn't have enough damage for being the killing blow that it's ostensibly supposed to be...take off that AP bonus and give back some damage.
Come to think of it, it would be cool to have some kind of "faithful focus" passive that would increase CC resistance, but I could see that getting out of hand for a halfling DC (IIRC they have racial CC resistance -- I think my halfling CW does).
That said, Hammer of Fate is still underpowered, underwhelming, and needs that 40% damage back. Come on, it doesn't have enough damage for being the killing blow that it's ostensibly supposed to be...take off that AP bonus and give back some damage.
that and maybe only give the AP bonus if it takes 1 or 2 out of the 3 hits to kill hits enemy? Give use the 40% damage back, then maybe some AP if the mob dies in the 1st or 2nd hit.
I'd just like to know where that AP bonus is. As, it used to be bugged in PvP and you did not receive any AP on the killing blow. Then it got fixed and we receive 0 AP on killing blow in both PvP & PvE.
I quit using it and put points into Flamestrike so I'd have an actual damage-dealing daily, so I don't know. I'll test it on the midsummer trolls when I get some time.
I quit using it and put points into Flamestrike so I'd have an actual damage-dealing daily, so I don't know. I'll test it on the midsummer trolls when I get some time.
You do gain the AP on kill if it is the HoF that killed the mob and not a DoT you had ticking on the mob. I've had my brand of the sun's steal my AP on kill from hammer of fate XD
I should really respec and pick up Brand of the Sun. I'm using Astral Seal with Sacred Flame and feel like I could do better running solo if I tried out Brand of the Sun to replace one of them.
If you replace one of those with brand of the sun replace astral seal you don't want a DoT as your main damage dealing at-will. I run lance of faith and BotS and it works well. Also repurpose soul heals can proc off BotS's DoT giving you a weaker non-snaring version of FF, if of course it crits.
Hammer did not deserve a nerf and it is getting ridiculous.
Seriously what are our choices as damage dailies ?
Protector of Faith ? ROFL
Flame Strike ? Only one that should be viable now but bugged and can't crit..
Hammer of Fate ? no more damage + easy dodge
At this point they should even make Hammer of Fate and Protector of Faith encounter powers because their power is not high enough for the rank of Dailies.
I really don't get why they nerfed it to the ground, we had already been hurt by the AP gain nerf anyway.
Less AP = less hammers.
But well, we all know that devs hate clerics, right ?
Look at this thread, over 19 pages, started 1 week and half ago, and they still don't ****in care about us.
No wonder why everytime I'm in Protector during DD or right before DD, I see plenty of groups looking for DCs... I rarely see any group looking for TR.. Strange.
Keep nerfing the DC cryptic, soon you will have to lower the cooldown of potions to 3 seconds because no cleric will bother to play that class anymore and will reroll. I am getting much more fun on my TR, it's 0 skill required.
Comments
I still would like to know what do they think about it and if they are going to do anything.
Except last night, a whole slew of people got banned for quest-sharing the weekly quest in Sharandar. Arcane Reservoir I believe it's called. I actually did it a couple times to help out some guildies, and I guess I figured it could be abused but they must have targeted people who did it many times. Certainly not what I'd consider a bannable exploit, especially considering the recent "lucky" response to the lockbox bug. The quest-sharing thing has been around forever, too. They could surely fix sharing if it was that big of a deal for them. So am I "lucky" if Syndryth decides to jump to her death, or am I setting myself up to get banned?
Oh! Odd thing about the Hammer, I wonder if anyone else has noticed. If you try to use it without enough AP, you don't get the normal red warning and error sound saying that you don't have enough AP. It just silently fails.
And by the way considering the fact that each and every dungeon in this game got at least one or more exploit (and the people abuse them instead of learning how to play PVE, although i must conceed that the dungeon difficulty is really badly balanced), i'm simply amazed that this game still has a playerbase and that there was no ban for that kind of exploit.
If they really don't want the exploit to be used then all they have to do is fix'em but, as we all know, there are a lot of exploits that are still around from a long time ago.
Nothing was fixed except what directly affect their business, and that's ok because we're talking about a company here.
But, if the Nightmare Lockbox exploit was considered "lucky", without any kind of result for those who used it, then how come a the same kind of mistake (because surely no user played with the game source code), resulted in a ban for some users?
Simply put, the Arcane Reservoir bug didn't made the players buy anything (different from the Nightmare Lockbox that required they key).
As i've said we're talking about a business company.
Only that.
no fix for flamestrike and no fix for forgemaster's flame.
Great, sin't it?
I want this class in NW.
I joined NW as a cleric mainly for roleplaying purposes, but I would love to be able to PVP or at least survive solo-questing without having to beg for a party at each new quest. It's fun in parties and leveling is much quicker, but I'd like to believe that I'm contributing to the party. At this point, sadly, I am not. It's very discouraging.
I understand that this is a "free" game and that the developers are working hard. But I don't think this issue is a product of general "whining." Please, developers, take this issue to heart. NW's clerics are a disappearing race.
One mod promised to talk to the devs, but surprisingly he is from the French part of the forums. Thing is, that there are a few clerics out there, and even fewer of them post on forums, so mods see same people posting in current threads about DC-related issues. I believe that they don't take our feedback seriously. But we need to keep these threads active, and need more people actually posting and asking them to tell devs that we want them to revert nerfs. Afaik, rogues did it, but there are a lot of rogues and they don't afraid to react viciously to every attempt to nerf their class. Neither should we, unless you feel like leaving the game for greener pastures.
Thanks!
I've done a 4 cleric 1 rogue game. We did terrible damage but didn't die once. When they focused all on a single player we would just blue-light heal him. The weak cleric heal problem is not much of a problem with two clerics working together, very hard to kill if they are specced as defensive healbots.
My main and 1st level 60 was my cleric. (always my favorite class) My 1st toon in BW1 was also a DC. My cleric holds my enchants/wards/stuff and does Leadership tasks after daily prayers. I play my CW every day. I have 1 of every class at 60 and play them all on occassion, except my original main, the DC. I will not play him again until Cryptic wakes up. I love this game and support it often, but the way they treat the DC is ridiculous. I wonder what will happen when everyone comes to the same place I am at.....
Mostly I still use HoF because I don't have anything better to use.
While we are on the topic of cleric dailies How about buffing Guardian of Faith so that is can actually be useful? It is incredible weak both as damage and as healing and in it's current form is completely useless. Also un nerf HoF, It doesn't have the damage now to be used as an execute so the AP on kill is really only for when you take less then 3 hits to kill your target.
They should simply remove it.
Why did they give us such an offensive power in the first place ?
Clerics should have no dailies. Clerics are OP in their design.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Yeah, in fact shouldn't clerics stay on their shrine of god and pray?
New proposal of a daily: Summon shrine - summon a shrine for 5 minutes that heals 40% less then a normal shrine. Up on summon, the cleric takes damage. Because we think that this ability is quite powerfull, the cleric is dazed for 30 min beeing not able to use any power. Every rank increase the damage to the cleric by 50%. At last rank, the power has the ability to crit and instantly sacrifiy the cleric to their deity.
That said, Hammer of Fate is still underpowered, underwhelming, and needs that 40% damage back. Come on, it doesn't have enough damage for being the killing blow that it's ostensibly supposed to be...take off that AP bonus and give back some damage.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
that and maybe only give the AP bonus if it takes 1 or 2 out of the 3 hits to kill hits enemy? Give use the 40% damage back, then maybe some AP if the mob dies in the 1st or 2nd hit.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
You do gain the AP on kill if it is the HoF that killed the mob and not a DoT you had ticking on the mob. I've had my brand of the sun's steal my AP on kill from hammer of fate XD
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Seriously what are our choices as damage dailies ?
Protector of Faith ? ROFL
Flame Strike ? Only one that should be viable now but bugged and can't crit..
Hammer of Fate ? no more damage + easy dodge
At this point they should even make Hammer of Fate and Protector of Faith encounter powers because their power is not high enough for the rank of Dailies.
I really don't get why they nerfed it to the ground, we had already been hurt by the AP gain nerf anyway.
Less AP = less hammers.
But well, we all know that devs hate clerics, right ?
Look at this thread, over 19 pages, started 1 week and half ago, and they still don't ****in care about us.
No wonder why everytime I'm in Protector during DD or right before DD, I see plenty of groups looking for DCs... I rarely see any group looking for TR.. Strange.
Keep nerfing the DC cryptic, soon you will have to lower the cooldown of potions to 3 seconds because no cleric will bother to play that class anymore and will reroll. I am getting much more fun on my TR, it's 0 skill required.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )