Well here is their definition of a Devoted Cleric... so the class is AS they wanted it... what people are complaining about or asking for is actually different from how the intended the build of the class. Maybe a new paragon path will give you different options... but based on this they are doing what they set out to.
So consider it a contract... sign it, or turn it down. I'm going to keep doing what I do best with my... supporting the party.
--
The Cleric is a class based on divine origin and has a primary role of a Leader. Leader in this context means the member of the party which stays back and fills in the cracks of their party. A leader can boost morale, tend to the wounds, make the enemies lose the will to fight or rally the members of party together.
A Devoted Cleric is a build of cleric with controller as a secondary role. They are a versatile class, equally capable of serving as a healer and of controlling the battlefield with the magical power granted by the deity they serve.
Devoted Clerics wear chainmail for protection.
When fighting the main bosses in dungeons, usually the best role for the Cleric is to just heal the party and stay out of harm's way. If mobs start to pile up on you, run to the Guardian Fighter to lose them. The Control Wizard pushes then off of the Guardian Fighter and helps kill them, and the Rogue or Great Weapon Fighter kills the boss.(GWF should be killing and tanking waves as well.)
All of this is true. And there are 3 ways to look at this:
1.) "I don't care I'm a DC I can still heal...
Wrong!
My healing spells crit 4k and they are in cooldown for 10-20seconds. While an enemy at will crits for the same amount and an encounter power crits for 10k? I'm asking very VERY politely... Where are my healing powers and what is the real concept of the healer here, if not healing? Does the devs look at stats at all when they compare the powers?
2.) This is not a dps class(??? Confused look ???)
Then get back to number 1... where are the healings?
3.) I have no clue what the devs are smoking...
They just got no clue and they don't play the pvp part of the game. I mean I go in to pvp and I open my eyes and I can clearly see that a rogue is one hitting me and the next guy and the next guy. What is the goal here I dare to ask? "you have to counter rogue 1 hitting you"? From stealth?
What about constant stun? 3 enemy walk over a DC any time, even if my team is helping me and try to defend me. I can't heal I lie down on the ground for 5sec then I die. Then the enemy 3 player close in on another player and they just cc the hell out of him.
I don't play pvp in this game because it is so mindless, no-brainer hack and slash withouth any logic whatsoever.
IF a dev would explain what they are thinking I would be REALLY REALLY listening and trying to be very optimistic and positive about how they explain their choices.
But then again they don't play the game, they just prob have nice imagination how it should play out. But numbers shows different.
You're whole logic is looking from the direction of hammer of fate only, good sir.
I won't argue with your logic. It's not about how bad or well a spell works. The important thing is that it is no way can be compared to a one shot spell that does 95% HP dmg to a player, with almost no skill, no build up, no prerequisite (move or effect). Yet you talking about a spell that -as you explained- need to be built on, used in conjunction with another spell.
This shouldn't be comparable at all. So the logic fails (oops contradicted myself, sorry :P).
I won't ask you about the rest, I don't think I would get an answer so I just walk along...
Commented in another thread but commenting here as well.
Hammer of fate will get some buffs to it, but it won't go back to the damage it used to deal.
Saying it only sometimes killed people/Npcs from full health is not a very convincing argument for it's previous damage being ok.
Keep in mind that Hammer of Fate can't be interrupted, increases your damage reduction by 50% while casting, requires them to evade 3 separate hits, and stuns the target for a second if they are hit by the final blast. Should also mention that if you are concerned with players dodging it, landing Chains of Blazing Light will prevent them from evading any of the hits.
In regards to it being compared to Flame Strike, Flame Strike gets bonus damage for being a placed attack. Flame strike only deals it's full damage if you hit with the geyser, and if you miss with that there is a good chance players will evade the splash entirely. (The combo with chains of Blazing Light applies here as well of course)
But with that said, Hammer of Fate will get some extra love.
The Cleric is a class based on divine origin and has a primary role of a Leader. Leader in this context means the member of the party which stays back and fills in the cracks of their party. A leader can boost morale, tend to the wounds, make the enemies lose the will to fight or rally the members of party together.
Where are my skills to boost the group's moral, if I may ask? I only got some minor heals and mediocre damage migration buffs. There are actually only a few skills that buff the group but they are either daily or need divinity.
Summary: epic fail
A Devoted Cleric is a build of cleric with controller as a secondary role.
I have one knockback that require divinity in addition to a very basic root that breaks if the targets take damage. Even a TR can controle the battle field much better then a cleric, not to mention a GF or GWF. In fact, cleric got the lowest amount of the weakest controll spells in game.
Summary: epic fail
They are a versatile class, equally capable of serving as a healer and of controlling the battlefield with the magical power granted by the deity they serve.
My versatility consists of damage migration and healing - doing otherwise the group kicks me, because healing and damage migration is that what a group expects from a cleric. How is that come?
If I focus on, could maybe slightly debuff the enemy. If I focus on, could maybe slightly buff the group. If I focus on, I could even do some AE damage. However - none of these option are very valid in comparison to healing and damage migration, for the reason that other class can do much better. The irony is that even damage migration and healing is subpar when compared e.g. to controlling and damage of other classes.
Summary: epic fail
When fighting the main bosses in dungeons, usually the best role for the Cleric is to just heal the party and stay out of harm's way. If mobs start to pile up on you, run to the Guardian Fighter to lose them. The Control Wizard pushes then off of the Guardian Fighter and helps kill them, and the Rogue or Great Weapon Fighter kills the boss.(GWF should be killing and tanking waves as well.)
Yeah, I can stay out of the harms way. And while I staying back while my group fights I do ... uhm, nothing? Because the best healing/damage migration spells requiring the cleric actually to be in front line. With some exception of daily powers, they are area effects with a quite limited diameter.
Summary: epic fail
In fact, I have played clerics in D&D for a long time. I played it as pen&paper and as computer game. I know how it should feel to play a cleric. I know how it should feel to fit into the leader role. In Neverwinter I feel like a better cleric companion while other people doing the heroic main part of the battle.
Playing a cleric in D&D should feel epic. In Neverwinter, playing a cleric just feels pathetic.
I think this sums up the situation nicely. People keep calling clerics healers and are assuming the system is based on the holy trinity concept which couldn't be more untrue.
Also I'm tired of being expected to be other peoples babysitter. They thing if there is a cleric present they don't need healing potions and don't have to dodge.
Agreed........The whole point is that the nerfs to the DC means that people who play that class don't have fun!!! No fun means not playing. The game has gotten too commercial and it is hard to play any class without feeling taken advantage of...YES I KNOW....don't play then you say.....
The sad thing is that the game could be really great, it has a lot going for it. But just like a lot of MMOs it gets ruined by the DEVs. DO THEY EVER PLAY THE GAME?????
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glanngalladMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited September 2013
I created a cleric as my last class after a GF and CW....oh my gosh!!! I went broke with heal pots.....had to siphon gold so my so called healer could buy pots to stay alive LOL!!! I could not believe that anyone would choose to play that class!! No heals no DPS whew...challenge city. Of course I created the class after the nerfs...and have leveled to 35 just because I like pins under my nails. Ok so I bow to all you DCs that actually still play the class and try to keep the party going with hardly any thanks. The most fun I have with this class is running by a toon and topping off their HPs with a pathetic little "heal"!
I'm not 100% sure, but this skill bug out. It can push through shieldblock and unstoppable. It don't damage, but push.
Since the Sharandar module I get pushed a lot while holding Guard up. Mostly in PvE though, but it's probably a bug which is not solely connected to Hammer of Fate.
Since the Sharandar module I get pushed a lot while holding Guard up. Mostly in PvE though, but it's probably a bug which is not solely connected to Hammer of Fate.
Yeah, I read a bug report thread that Guard doesn't block CC now (apparently it used to block certain CC before, but I don't know from experience because my GF is too new). It's not HoF misbehaving -- it's Guard not working right.
Guard issues aside, many powers that push targets (like HoF or the push from Oppressive Force) tend to ignore a degree of CC immunity. Then there's Flourish from GWFs, which always stuns for at least a moment, even if target is immune.... Lots of strangeness with CC.
Guard issues aside, many powers that push targets (like HoF or the push from Oppressive Force) tend to ignore a degree of CC immunity. Then there's Flourish from GWFs, which always stuns for at least a moment, even if target is immune.... Lots of strangeness with CC.
Now that you're talking about CC immunity. I haven't noticed WIS affecting control resistance. I may be a bit paranoid here, but i've yet to see my DC resisting a control power. And it has high WIS.
Strange huh?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I want this class in NW.
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cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
edited September 2013
Wow... guess I'm the only person in the forums that enjoys playing my DC. For all the others... well there are other classes to play. Anything that is a chore to you... move on.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wow... guess I'm the only person in the forums that enjoys playing my DC. For all the others... well there are other classes to play. Anything that is a chore to you... move on.
Oh, I enjoy playing my DC. He's hilarious. Topping the damage in a delve always makes me lol. It's just HoF that irks me. It just doesn't do enough damage to be worth using.
Comments
Well here is their definition of a Devoted Cleric... so the class is AS they wanted it... what people are complaining about or asking for is actually different from how the intended the build of the class. Maybe a new paragon path will give you different options... but based on this they are doing what they set out to.
So consider it a contract... sign it, or turn it down. I'm going to keep doing what I do best with my... supporting the party.
--
The Cleric is a class based on divine origin and has a primary role of a Leader. Leader in this context means the member of the party which stays back and fills in the cracks of their party. A leader can boost morale, tend to the wounds, make the enemies lose the will to fight or rally the members of party together.
A Devoted Cleric is a build of cleric with controller as a secondary role. They are a versatile class, equally capable of serving as a healer and of controlling the battlefield with the magical power granted by the deity they serve.
Devoted Clerics wear chainmail for protection.
When fighting the main bosses in dungeons, usually the best role for the Cleric is to just heal the party and stay out of harm's way. If mobs start to pile up on you, run to the Guardian Fighter to lose them. The Control Wizard pushes then off of the Guardian Fighter and helps kill them, and the Rogue or Great Weapon Fighter kills the boss.(GWF should be killing and tanking waves as well.)
1.) "I don't care I'm a DC I can still heal...
Wrong!
My healing spells crit 4k and they are in cooldown for 10-20seconds. While an enemy at will crits for the same amount and an encounter power crits for 10k? I'm asking very VERY politely... Where are my healing powers and what is the real concept of the healer here, if not healing? Does the devs look at stats at all when they compare the powers?
2.) This is not a dps class(??? Confused look ???)
Then get back to number 1... where are the healings?
3.) I have no clue what the devs are smoking...
They just got no clue and they don't play the pvp part of the game. I mean I go in to pvp and I open my eyes and I can clearly see that a rogue is one hitting me and the next guy and the next guy. What is the goal here I dare to ask? "you have to counter rogue 1 hitting you"? From stealth?
What about constant stun? 3 enemy walk over a DC any time, even if my team is helping me and try to defend me. I can't heal I lie down on the ground for 5sec then I die. Then the enemy 3 player close in on another player and they just cc the hell out of him.
I don't play pvp in this game because it is so mindless, no-brainer hack and slash withouth any logic whatsoever.
IF a dev would explain what they are thinking I would be REALLY REALLY listening and trying to be very optimistic and positive about how they explain their choices.
But then again they don't play the game, they just prob have nice imagination how it should play out. But numbers shows different.
I won't argue with your logic. It's not about how bad or well a spell works. The important thing is that it is no way can be compared to a one shot spell that does 95% HP dmg to a player, with almost no skill, no build up, no prerequisite (move or effect). Yet you talking about a spell that -as you explained- need to be built on, used in conjunction with another spell.
This shouldn't be comparable at all. So the logic fails (oops contradicted myself, sorry :P).
I won't ask you about the rest, I don't think I would get an answer so I just walk along...
Summary: epic fail
I have one knockback that require divinity in addition to a very basic root that breaks if the targets take damage. Even a TR can controle the battle field much better then a cleric, not to mention a GF or GWF. In fact, cleric got the lowest amount of the weakest controll spells in game.
Summary: epic fail
My versatility consists of damage migration and healing - doing otherwise the group kicks me, because healing and damage migration is that what a group expects from a cleric. How is that come?
If I focus on, could maybe slightly debuff the enemy. If I focus on, could maybe slightly buff the group. If I focus on, I could even do some AE damage. However - none of these option are very valid in comparison to healing and damage migration, for the reason that other class can do much better. The irony is that even damage migration and healing is subpar when compared e.g. to controlling and damage of other classes.
Summary: epic fail
Yeah, I can stay out of the harms way. And while I staying back while my group fights I do ... uhm, nothing? Because the best healing/damage migration spells requiring the cleric actually to be in front line. With some exception of daily powers, they are area effects with a quite limited diameter.
Summary: epic fail
In fact, I have played clerics in D&D for a long time. I played it as pen&paper and as computer game. I know how it should feel to play a cleric. I know how it should feel to fit into the leader role. In Neverwinter I feel like a better cleric companion while other people doing the heroic main part of the battle.
Playing a cleric in D&D should feel epic. In Neverwinter, playing a cleric just feels pathetic.
Sigh...
Agreed........The whole point is that the nerfs to the DC means that people who play that class don't have fun!!! No fun means not playing. The game has gotten too commercial and it is hard to play any class without feeling taken advantage of...YES I KNOW....don't play then you say.....
The sad thing is that the game could be really great, it has a lot going for it. But just like a lot of MMOs it gets ruined by the DEVs. DO THEY EVER PLAY THE GAME?????
Since the Sharandar module I get pushed a lot while holding Guard up. Mostly in PvE though, but it's probably a bug which is not solely connected to Hammer of Fate.
Yeah, I read a bug report thread that Guard doesn't block CC now (apparently it used to block certain CC before, but I don't know from experience because my GF is too new). It's not HoF misbehaving -- it's Guard not working right.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Now that you're talking about CC immunity. I haven't noticed WIS affecting control resistance. I may be a bit paranoid here, but i've yet to see my DC resisting a control power. And it has high WIS.
Strange huh?
I want this class in NW.
Oh, I enjoy playing my DC. He's hilarious. Topping the damage in a delve always makes me lol. It's just HoF that irks me. It just doesn't do enough damage to be worth using.