... so, what the point of heal 6-9k when the mob can do damage like a TR full vorpal x.x. After that, i'm prob going to switch my build to full def ... ... Yeah is very funny use a DC now, we can only spam heal and dodge the deth
I was doing Malabogs recently too and am also thinking about changing build to def since my heal doesnt make any difference... but then my already not so great dmg would be a real HAMSTER, and I still wont be able to tank as good as GWF (GW is too obvious), so what would be my place in a team? Because debuffs/buffs arent really worth it... I really see no future for DC class now.
Ok, that was whining, I admit... Only there actually is a reason to whine.
How many clerics you need to heal in Neverwinter?
Answer: Don't waste your time in finding one and simply take a healing potion, it's much more efficent.
How many cleric you need to kill someone in PvP?
Answer: In fact only one ... but 4 other to keep the one who does the kill alive.
How many clerics you need to change a light bulb?
Answer: Clerics don't need light bulbs. Clerics can glow in convinent blue light! ... What does it do?... It turns blue.
While we are at it we should mention that guardian of faith's damage is pathetic for a daily. While daunting light needs to crit to out do hammer of fate's damage but a crit from gaurdian of faith cannot do a daunting light crit.
Fix our dailies!!!
The reason it deals less damage is because it also heals by a "substantial" amount. That said, so does divine FF. I'd have to do a comparison on the damage vs. heal of both to get a feel for whether it's lopsided or not.
At this point, after seeing some other posts from non-DCs scattered about, I'm not sure many people really complained (at least not in places we can see) about the damage on HoF, which would be even more frustrating if it were true but I don't know. I've had good luck with dungeons and managed to gather up synergistic parties from Zonechat, so I don't get blamed for being "a bad cleric" when any or all of us die -- and when I mention my damage isn't what it should be because of the nerf, I just get sympathy. I don't think anybody likes the fact that a DC that can't deal enough damage when more is needed.
How many clerics you need to heal in Neverwinter?
Answer: Don't waste your time in finding one and simply take a healing potion, it's much more efficent.
And thats the real problem. I could care less about low dmg if I had anything to compensate it, but I dont have.
The reason it deals less damage is because it also heals by a "substantial" amount. That said, so does divine FF. I'd have to do a comparison on the damage vs. heal of both to get a feel for whether it's lopsided or not.
At this point, after seeing some other posts from non-DCs scattered about, I'm not sure many people really complained (at least not in places we can see) about the damage on HoF, which would be even more frustrating if it were true but I don't know. I've had good luck with dungeons and managed to gather up synergistic parties from Zonechat, so I don't get blamed for being "a bad cleric" when any or all of us die -- and when I mention my damage isn't what it should be because of the nerf, I just get sympathy. I don't think anybody likes the fact that a DC that can't deal enough damage when more is needed.
Yeah and I think some of the healbot mentality stems from this fact. However being told you are not healing when you are doing it mostly passively is to say the least, frustrating. So what will happen when other leader roles come out? I would not expect a warlord to be a healer but more of a buffer/debuffer, yet they also have the leader role in D&D 4th edition.
Main problem is people are thinking that there are 3 roles (holy trinity syle) when there are 4 where every role can do alot of damage and then provide some other utility to the group.
Whit my full heal Dc i can tell you my healing skill sometimes suck . If i don't crit whit healing word in divine mode ( non crit heal for 4k ist ) i can barely save someone. Last time in Malabog i did 9k crit healing whit healing word in divine mode, but the mob dealed 44k damage to that tr -.- so, what the point of heal 6-9k when the mob can do damage like a TR full vorpal x.x. After that, i'm prob going to switch my build to full def at last i hope i wont get oneshotted if i reach 3-3,5k def ( now whit 33% damage res i get oneshotted sometimes by storm shaman when my stamina is 0 and i can't dodge:( ). I hope, at last, they wont nerf DL now since do more damage then all the daily we have atm Yeah is very funny use a DC now, we can only spam heal and dodge the deth
The main DC mechanic isn't healing, it's damage mitigation with quite good healing abilities. If your TR was stupid enough to get hit for 44k he's the only one to blame anyway. A DC in a party isn't "ignore red stuff for free for everyone!".
Back on original topic, yes, i miss my good old hammer of fate. It does such a ridiculously low damage now that i don't even get kills anymore in pvp. Awesome.
The only thing it's good for now is luring enemies up to a cliff and hoping the knockback is enough to send them over (usually it's not because srsly I'm a DC not a CW what is this sorcery). We can't change the whole class in a day, and I'm cool with that -- heck I'm cool with the devs themselves, I just don't like the HoF nerf that they did -- but having our big damage spell back would go a long way toward making a lot of happier DCs (and happier everyone else for that matter).
The only thing it's good for now is luring enemies up to a cliff and hoping the knockback is enough to send them over (usually it's not because srsly I'm a DC not a CW what is this sorcery). We can't change the whole class in a day, and I'm cool with that -- heck I'm cool with the devs themselves, I just don't like the HoF nerf that they did -- but having our big damage spell back would go a long way toward making a lot of happier DCs (and happier everyone else for that matter).
This, so much this. I only use this if I think the first 2 hits might kill an enemy to try and get the last hit. If it was ment as an execute skill, then why does it not give bonus damage for health missing?
Nerf doesn't bother me one bit, In almoast every situation there's always a better Daily to use.
In PVP the nerf was pretty much needed. No class should be able to just point and click a IWIN button. TR's got hit with it a while back. Then again with their IWin combo. (Lurker+Lashing). Next i'm pretty sure will be GF's Prone Chain.
Nerf doesn't bother me one bit, In almoast every situation there's always a better Daily to use.
In PVP the nerf was pretty much needed. No class should be able to just point and click a IWIN button. TR's got hit with it a while back. Then again with their IWin combo. (Lurker+Lashing). Next i'm pretty sure will be GF's Prone Chain.
This is the kind of attitude that hurts the game. HoF in PvP is dodgable and roots you to the spot. You had to be a pretty bad player to get hit by all three hits for HpF in PvP. Besides anyone with top gera can still one-shot people. Also for the GF prone chain it relied on stalwart bulwark (yeah the one that got nerfed into the ground) and one of those prones is a daily. Again you could avoid this by dodging it at the right time.
Also for better dailies to use? well maybe that's your opinion. In PvE if this crit with repurpose soul it was the biggest burst heal you could dish out.
Some clerics want to be able to play the game instead of being healbots thanks.
Also you balance for PvE then make skills act differently in PvP if necessary!!
Nerf doesn't bother me one bit, In almoast every situation there's always a better Daily to use.
In PVP the nerf was pretty much needed. No class should be able to just point and click a IWIN button. TR's got hit with it a while back. Then again with their IWin combo. (Lurker+Lashing). Next i'm pretty sure will be GF's Prone Chain.
The Hammer was certainly not an "I win" button. At best, to three-shot someone with it (it isn't a one-shot ability), you'd have to have combination of the following luck:
1) Successfully getting 3 crits in a row
2) Debuff Stacking on target before Hammer
3) Failure of opponent to use defensive maneuvers
4) Not be killed while casting, or CC'd by abilities that ignore immunities
5) The killing blow would have to take someone from >25% to 0 or Soulforged would save them (unlike a true one-shot)
As for Daunting Light, it has several advantages:
1) AoE
2) Instant damage in divine mode
3) Can be feated to do 10% more damage (Nimbus of Light)
4) Only needs to roll one crit for full critical damage to all targets
5) Can benefit from the damage buff of your own Hallowed Ground
Too true... after all what they do to the class, I am wondering why are there still players willing to play a DC. But maybe ut is because we dont whine enough like TRs or even GWFs.
Woot, I just throw a Hammer of Fate on a CW in PVP, then: IMMUNE, DODGED, IMMUNED. Oh wow, I didn't even notice his life bar decreasing. He was full HP still. Even if I would have hit, it would have dealt poor damage by the way. Funny thing is that he did OS me with his Ice Knife for 24k damage while I had no stamina left for dodging (we don't have 3 dodges). So what was the "iWIN" button again ? Our daily Hammer is completely broken.
But not as broken as the ****ing Forgemaster Flame, that power has been completely destroyed. Can't survive with it in PVP. Cleric is simply a nice free kill who can't even heal himself correctly. Most classes laugh at us, they roflstomp us and think they are good, just because we are nerfed to the ground and can't strike back or heal ourselves, while without those stupid nerfs we would have either freightened em with our potential Hammer, destroyed them with our Hammer, or been able to outheal their DPS for 5 seconds with Forgemaster until our mates come to help us.
Well, now we are just useless. Good for throwing heals on our teammates, and spending our life under the Rez cooldown.
We earned Righteousness for being the class that used the less potions.
But we are the class that dies the most in PVP, more than any other, cause we are #1 focus.
So what are we gonna earn for this ? Yeah, you got it. Nothing, only more nerfs and scorn.
Most classes laugh at us, they roflstomp us and think they are good
Maybe that's the reason why clerics are nerfed in the first place! It's 1 class (an not the most popular one) against 4, so, let's say, 1 disappointed player and 4 happy with their "uber skillz" in PvP who will spend some money on mounts or zen. Okay, that's simplified, but many players who roll DD characters refuse to play "dem ****ty supports", so they won't know that in reality their skills are just as "good" as the ability to stomp low-level mobs.
Maybe that's the reason why clerics are nerfed in the first place! It's 1 class (an not the most popular one) against 4, so, let's say, 1 disappointed player and 4 happy with their "uber skillz" in PvP who will spend some money on mounts or zen. Okay, that's simplified, but many players who roll DD characters refuse to play "dem ****ty supports", so they won't know that in reality their skills are just as "good" as the ability to stomp low-level mobs.
I think this is EXACTLY the design theory. It also exists in other games, but it's an extreme here. Some people play and pay in order to feel powerful and feed their sociopathic tendencies by defeating other players who are severely disadvantaged. Game companies capitalize on this.
I am of the mind we should get together and threaten them with making all the totally, absolutely game-breaking exploits public knowledge unless they stop HAMSTER us over. Seriously, some of them I've seen could crash the market in a day. Some are DC specific, and honestly, if they were public knowledge, half the people online would be DC's. heh
(If we start making unruly comments, we might at least get a Community Leader to reply to us, even if it's just to say he's closing the thread. haha)
I think we should all run around in 5-cleric premades. Domination isn't about KILLING, after all, right? So we'd just make unkillable teams that bore the other side to death.
It would at least be a change from the usual PvP experience.
I think we should all run around in 5-cleric premades. Domination isn't about KILLING, after all, right? So we'd just make unkillable teams that bore the other side to death.
It would at least be a change from the usual PvP experience.
I'm down for that!
maybe do the same for dungeons, let them try and do it without clerics!
Hammer of Fate should be demoted to Encounter Power so as to be in line with its current level of usefulness.
I'd rather have my hard hitting daily back, but yeah this daily and flamestrike are now only encounter strength. Not to mention guardian of faith (seriously is this daily supposed to be a joke? Daunting light on non-crit does twice it's dps).
I am of the mind we should get together and threaten them with making all the totally, absolutely game-breaking exploits public knowledge unless they stop HAMSTER us over. Seriously, some of them I've seen could crash the market in a day. Some are DC specific, and honestly, if they were public knowledge, half the people online would be DC's. heh
(If we start making unruly comments, we might at least get a Community Leader to reply to us, even if it's just to say he's closing the thread. haha)
The mods have been keeping an eye on this to make sure we're behaving; one of them edited the thread title (which used to be "ATTN: Devs Re: Hammer of Fate nerf" -- was ATTN: offensive or something? I'm sorry? O_o). I'm cool with them not posting even though I know at least one of them plays a DC. Really: if they post saying they disagree, they know we'll just get mad and drama ensues. If they post saying they agree and want it changed back, it makes things weird for them to stay impartial as mods on it. Maybe I'm wrong; I was once an admin of a totally different forum under much different circumstances and it's been a long time, but one thing you learn from that is that sometimes it's better to observe in silence when people feel strongly about things that could go into flames if you poke in the wrong direction.
That said, you're welcome to do whatever you want for dungeons etc., but please no exploits or general rule-breaking. I don't want to cause trouble with this thread -- I just want HoF back.
Comments
You've won +1 interwebz for an accurate description of the Guardian of Bowels.
I want this class in NW.
I was doing Malabogs recently too and am also thinking about changing build to def since my heal doesnt make any difference... but then my already not so great dmg would be a real HAMSTER, and I still wont be able to tank as good as GWF (GW is too obvious), so what would be my place in a team? Because debuffs/buffs arent really worth it... I really see no future for DC class now.
Ok, that was whining, I admit... Only there actually is a reason to whine.
Answer: Don't waste your time in finding one and simply take a healing potion, it's much more efficent.
How many cleric you need to kill someone in PvP?
Answer: In fact only one ... but 4 other to keep the one who does the kill alive.
How many clerics you need to change a light bulb?
Answer: Clerics don't need light bulbs. Clerics can glow in convinent blue light! ... What does it do?... It turns blue.
The reason it deals less damage is because it also heals by a "substantial" amount. That said, so does divine FF. I'd have to do a comparison on the damage vs. heal of both to get a feel for whether it's lopsided or not.
At this point, after seeing some other posts from non-DCs scattered about, I'm not sure many people really complained (at least not in places we can see) about the damage on HoF, which would be even more frustrating if it were true but I don't know. I've had good luck with dungeons and managed to gather up synergistic parties from Zonechat, so I don't get blamed for being "a bad cleric" when any or all of us die -- and when I mention my damage isn't what it should be because of the nerf, I just get sympathy. I don't think anybody likes the fact that a DC that can't deal enough damage when more is needed.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
And thats the real problem. I could care less about low dmg if I had anything to compensate it, but I dont have.
Yeah and I think some of the healbot mentality stems from this fact. However being told you are not healing when you are doing it mostly passively is to say the least, frustrating. So what will happen when other leader roles come out? I would not expect a warlord to be a healer but more of a buffer/debuffer, yet they also have the leader role in D&D 4th edition.
Main problem is people are thinking that there are 3 roles (holy trinity syle) when there are 4 where every role can do alot of damage and then provide some other utility to the group.
The main DC mechanic isn't healing, it's damage mitigation with quite good healing abilities. If your TR was stupid enough to get hit for 44k he's the only one to blame anyway. A DC in a party isn't "ignore red stuff for free for everyone!".
Back on original topic, yes, i miss my good old hammer of fate. It does such a ridiculously low damage now that i don't even get kills anymore in pvp. Awesome.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
This, so much this. I only use this if I think the first 2 hits might kill an enemy to try and get the last hit. If it was ment as an execute skill, then why does it not give bonus damage for health missing?
In PVP the nerf was pretty much needed. No class should be able to just point and click a IWIN button. TR's got hit with it a while back. Then again with their IWin combo. (Lurker+Lashing). Next i'm pretty sure will be GF's Prone Chain.
This is the kind of attitude that hurts the game. HoF in PvP is dodgable and roots you to the spot. You had to be a pretty bad player to get hit by all three hits for HpF in PvP. Besides anyone with top gera can still one-shot people. Also for the GF prone chain it relied on stalwart bulwark (yeah the one that got nerfed into the ground) and one of those prones is a daily. Again you could avoid this by dodging it at the right time.
Also for better dailies to use? well maybe that's your opinion. In PvE if this crit with repurpose soul it was the biggest burst heal you could dish out.
Some clerics want to be able to play the game instead of being healbots thanks.
Also you balance for PvE then make skills act differently in PvP if necessary!!
The Hammer was certainly not an "I win" button. At best, to three-shot someone with it (it isn't a one-shot ability), you'd have to have combination of the following luck:
1) Successfully getting 3 crits in a row
2) Debuff Stacking on target before Hammer
3) Failure of opponent to use defensive maneuvers
4) Not be killed while casting, or CC'd by abilities that ignore immunities
5) The killing blow would have to take someone from >25% to 0 or Soulforged would save them (unlike a true one-shot)
As for Daunting Light, it has several advantages:
1) AoE
2) Instant damage in divine mode
3) Can be feated to do 10% more damage (Nimbus of Light)
4) Only needs to roll one crit for full critical damage to all targets
5) Can benefit from the damage buff of your own Hallowed Ground
Indeed. This what brought us "Righteousness", an awesome feature exclusive to the DCs.
Cryptic would rather implement "ILOSE" button when it comes to clerics.
But not as broken as the ****ing Forgemaster Flame, that power has been completely destroyed. Can't survive with it in PVP. Cleric is simply a nice free kill who can't even heal himself correctly. Most classes laugh at us, they roflstomp us and think they are good, just because we are nerfed to the ground and can't strike back or heal ourselves, while without those stupid nerfs we would have either freightened em with our potential Hammer, destroyed them with our Hammer, or been able to outheal their DPS for 5 seconds with Forgemaster until our mates come to help us.
Well, now we are just useless. Good for throwing heals on our teammates, and spending our life under the Rez cooldown.
We earned Righteousness for being the class that used the less potions.
But we are the class that dies the most in PVP, more than any other, cause we are #1 focus.
So what are we gonna earn for this ? Yeah, you got it. Nothing, only more nerfs and scorn.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Maybe that's the reason why clerics are nerfed in the first place! It's 1 class (an not the most popular one) against 4, so, let's say, 1 disappointed player and 4 happy with their "uber skillz" in PvP who will spend some money on mounts or zen. Okay, that's simplified, but many players who roll DD characters refuse to play "dem ****ty supports", so they won't know that in reality their skills are just as "good" as the ability to stomp low-level mobs.
I think this is EXACTLY the design theory. It also exists in other games, but it's an extreme here. Some people play and pay in order to feel powerful and feed their sociopathic tendencies by defeating other players who are severely disadvantaged. Game companies capitalize on this.
I am of the mind we should get together and threaten them with making all the totally, absolutely game-breaking exploits public knowledge unless they stop HAMSTER us over. Seriously, some of them I've seen could crash the market in a day. Some are DC specific, and honestly, if they were public knowledge, half the people online would be DC's. heh
(If we start making unruly comments, we might at least get a Community Leader to reply to us, even if it's just to say he's closing the thread. haha)
It would at least be a change from the usual PvP experience.
Do it like the rogue players do ... keep 3 threads of complains on the top first forum page. Currently working on it
I'm down for that!
maybe do the same for dungeons, let them try and do it without clerics!
I'm on mindflayer too! and yes sure XD
Dungeons too XD
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I'd rather have my hard hitting daily back, but yeah this daily and flamestrike are now only encounter strength. Not to mention guardian of faith (seriously is this daily supposed to be a joke? Daunting light on non-crit does twice it's dps).
The mods have been keeping an eye on this to make sure we're behaving; one of them edited the thread title (which used to be "ATTN: Devs Re: Hammer of Fate nerf" -- was ATTN: offensive or something? I'm sorry? O_o). I'm cool with them not posting even though I know at least one of them plays a DC. Really: if they post saying they disagree, they know we'll just get mad and drama ensues. If they post saying they agree and want it changed back, it makes things weird for them to stay impartial as mods on it. Maybe I'm wrong; I was once an admin of a totally different forum under much different circumstances and it's been a long time, but one thing you learn from that is that sometimes it's better to observe in silence when people feel strongly about things that could go into flames if you poke in the wrong direction.
That said, you're welcome to do whatever you want for dungeons etc., but please no exploits or general rule-breaking. I don't want to cause trouble with this thread -- I just want HoF back.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR