Actually there are more AD coming in to the game as Cryptic have given you more avenues to make AD. They have added the salvager so you can convert your BOP items to ruff AD they have the dailies which give refined AD and now there is the Lord Nevermeber dailies which rewards ruff AD and you also have the AD that are given to players that purchase the packs these are the only ways new AD enter the system.
I think what you mean is that you are not making as much AD from doing DD as you used. But you should still be able to make a decent amount of AD from the non-BOP items that the boss
I'm not so worried about the economy. Most problems work themselves out over time. I am more worried about getting my brother over to play. It's going to be much much harder to talk him into coming now that he can't catch up as fast. It was one of the main reasons I liked the BOE system. A player that only really likes the raiding / difficult content scene was much more likely to come over from the game they are established in and give it a try.
Obviously the game should not stop moving forward just so my brother will come over, but it is a reason why the boe system was, in some respects, a good thing.
You were never supposed to earn massive AD "in a short period of time". Gaining lots of ingame currency usually involves hard work. So, if you wish to buy something... Work for it. These changes are the best thing that has happened to the game, so far. You should be thankful, but i guess you fail to comprehend what the devs intention is, at all.
Have a nice day, though.
people actually work for a living not working as a grinder in a game. i understand the mentality, but for the most part you will see a declining playerbase when the motivation gets broken about spending too much time with no payback... or the little payback u call work.
the motivation, and the fundamental core of the game is to grind your way through to the highest possible gear setup, thats the fundamental reason people are playing any sort of rpg/mmo, TO GEAR UP. Now you do the math of how you will aquire a fully geared rank 10 enchanted character with perfect weapon and armor enchant with bop. Have you even thought about that? Or do you just find it so fantastic to slay draco that u dont mind doing it 15.000 times with your inventory full of bop.
the ad to zen ratio is just going to increase, there are those who have gotten stacks of zen by buying low and selling high and it will just continue to rise as more they get and people are willing to purchase for. the design of the game also makes some vital requiring zen so i can see people dont even mind spending up to a 1000 ad per zen. it will probably decline some after hitting 400 since playerbase and ad will be sparse after the bop changes. but those who played the ad/zen exchange are probably the ones who made the most out of this game.
Actually there are more AD coming in to the game as Cryptic have given you more avenues to make AD. They have added the salvager so you can convert your BOP items to ruff AD they have the dailies which give refined AD and now there is the Lord Nevermeber dailies which rewards ruff AD and you also have the AD that are given to players that purchase the packs these are the only ways new AD enter the system.
I think what you mean is that you are not making as much AD from doing DD as you used. But you should still be able to make a decent amount of AD from the non-BOP items that the boss
Durp durp de durp. Again, they reward rough diamonds, not actual diamonds. There is a limit to 24k a day, which is exactly what the limit was pre-patch. It doesn't matter how many avenues exist when they only reward rough diamonds. You still have to convert these and there is a cap on how many you can convert in a day. Through dailies, invoking and salvaging, people are putting in the exact amount of diamonds that they were before the patch, not more.
I would venture to say with the drop in players, and with more of those who consider themselves fully finished (I.E, those who are in head to toe perfects, we know who they are.) that there is actually less floating around. The super rich don't need anything, so they sit on all of the goods because it keeps them 'special'.
If you have any doubts still that there are fewer resources available, look at the original hero of the north sales versus the fey pack sales. That is the real way AD comes into the game, 600k at a time. The bulk of the diamonds floating around have come from exploitation and real currency. I really don't believe that the bulk of players are capping their 24k a day on dailies anyhow.
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
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badpanda69Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited August 2013
Your only limited to refining 24k ruff AD to refine AD you still get refined AD from doing Rhexs Dailies. And your still able to make AD from the AH by selling the much rarer non BOP drops. You’re not actually limited to the amount of AD that you can earn just the amount of ruff that you can refine.
Also you do know that people are only able to convert Zen to AD because players are selling their AD. So in a way if you ever converted AD to ZEN then you helped people to be able to Pay 2 Win but what you helped them win I really don’t know.
Have DD chest loot reverted to BOE, but implement a system where BOP seals for a tier drop in minor amounts from the first bosses, and a large amount from the last boss, with none or an extremely low amount dropping from DD chest compared to what drops from the last boss.
These seals could be used to upgrade T2 or T1 pieces with a stat and set bonus efficacy factor of around 6-10%. Set bonus efficacy increase at 1/4th of the total amount for every piece upgraded, or if difficult to code based on current framework, then one could make it so that it is a kind of third set bonus that is hidden tooltip wise and achieved upon having all 4 upgraded.
Possible twist which would complicate matters: Have a different kind of seal for each slot that drops only in the appropriate dungeon.
Possible twist on twist: Have different kinds of seals of this sort interconvertible with 66% loss ratio.
Regarding dungeons with no set item: Either seals to upgrade items that can drop from its last boss and/or seals that can be exchanged for enchants or boe jewelry appropriate for the difficulty level of the dungeon.
Similar to the current Reinforce Gloves/Bracers from crafting.
~ Epeen / achievement value factor remains.
~ Pay 2 STRONK HULKSMASH (PWE profitability)/ Speed up / Quickly gear up alt remains.
~ Relatively consistent rate of DD hour profit for prospective sellers remain.
Everyone is reasonably happy.
Currently, DD hour dungeon grinders with all their gear are not happy due to the inconsistency in T2 profitability and the relative absence of alternate game content.
Your averge Zen--->AD purchaser is not happy due to the prices of BOE gear in real money.
The achieving= Best Gear crowd is not happy. Because ultimately, even with high prices, paying to win can circumvent pretty much all actual playing.
For a Free to Play / Pay to STRONG game to be successful, three somewhat overlapping crowds need to be successfully catered to. Casuals /potential mild spenders, Elite Players (mostly free to play) and heavy spenders. There is no community, driving force and reputation without Elite Players. There is no profitability without the heavy and casual spenders and there is no living world without the casuals.
Derailment towards off-topic:
Possible moar twist on everything an all all stuff and things: Every kind of seal that grants unsellable and sellable items should be usable to purchase something which will always be useful/valuable, like for example enchants and/or shards of weapon/armour enchants and/or wards. Salvaging everything does not give good game-feel and is not conducive to a vibrant game economy and people feeling like it's worth clinging onto this game. The dopamine factor is not there.
Your only limited to refining 24k ruff AD to refine AD you still get refined AD from doing Rhexs Dailies. And your still able to make AD from the AH by selling the much rarer non BOP drops. You’re not actually limited to the amount of AD that you can earn just the amount of ruff that you can refine.
Also you do know that people are only able to convert Zen to AD because players are selling their AD. So in a way if you ever converted AD to ZEN then you helped people to be able to Pay 2 Win but what you helped them win I really don’t know.
That would be what? Most well only want sell what everyone wants. Now if can tell me ten things that can be sold more then 15K AD each or fast sellers then just maybe I'll shut up.
Durp durp de durp. Again, they reward rough diamonds, not actual diamonds. There is a limit to 24k a day, which is exactly what the limit was pre-patch. It doesn't matter how many avenues exist when they only reward rough diamonds. You still have to convert these and there is a cap on how many you can convert in a day. Through dailies, invoking and salvaging, people are putting in the exact amount of diamonds that they were before the patch, not more. .
They have added more ways to gain Ruff AD which means that it’s easier to hit the refine cap this means that more people will now be hitting the cap which in turns means that more refined AD will be coming in to the system. I never said that they had increased the limit of ruff AD that can be refined this is some that you have just assumed.
I would venture to say with the drop in players, and with more of those who consider themselves fully finished (I.E, those who are in head to toe perfects, we know who they are.) that there is actually less floating around. The super rich don't need anything, so they sit on all of the goods because it keeps them 'special'.
What drop in players while I have been playing I have not really seen any significant drop in players. Who are these super rich players that you talk of are they like the illuminate.
If you have any doubts still that there are fewer resources available, look at the original hero of the north sales versus the fey pack sales. That is the real way AD comes into the game, 600k at a time. The bulk of the diamonds floating around have come from exploitation and real currency. I really don't believe that the bulk of players are capping their 24k a day on dailies anyhow.
Just out of curiosity how do you have access to the sales stats for these packs. I think I already covered that these packs are one of the ways that new AD come in to the game not sure if they are the main way as there is not really any reason to buy multiples of these packs after you have purchased one.
I would tend to agree with your that the majority of players where probably not maxing there refine rate but with these new ways of getting Ruff AD it’s been made easier for people to be able to do this.
Also if you look at the amount of the Ruff AD that can be refined over the course of 30 days its not exactly small chance it comes to 750,000, AD or about 1900 Zen based on current AD to ZEN exchange rates.
Now you do the math of how you will aquire a fully geared rank 10 enchanted character with perfect weapon and armor enchant with bop.
Hahah, okay. I have been playing since June. I play on Beholder, and PVP all the time. I have seen 0 people with perfect anything(brilliant doesn't count as it comes with $60 packs), and the highest I have seen is a Rank 8. I have a 15k GS (3rd highest I have seen on my server), and only have Rank 6's and normal Lifedrinker, and Lesser Soulforge. Dude, a 10 mil AD perfect enchant equates to a little over THREE HUNDRED REAL WORLD DOLLARS. You are living a pipe dream if you think you can EVER grind for one of those, let alone slot your entire toon.
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
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badpanda69Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
I'm not so worried about the economy. Most problems work themselves out over time. I am more worried about getting my brother over to play. It's going to be much much harder to talk him into coming now that he can't catch up as fast. It was one of the main reasons I liked the BOE system. A player that only really likes the raiding / difficult content scene was much more likely to come over from the game they are established in and give it a try.
Obviously the game should not stop moving forward just so my brother will come over, but it is a reason why the boe system was, in some respects, a good thing.
Totally get that Kinda kicking me self as I didnt buy some T1 gear before the patch. But not to bothered if Im honest should be fun gearing my self up. Me and my Girlfirend are very close to level 60so will be starting on our gear grind soon kinda excited about.
people actually work for a living not working as a grinder in a game. i understand the mentality, but for the most part you will see a declining playerbase when the motivation gets broken about spending too much time with no payback... or the little payback u call work.
the motivation, and the fundamental core of the game is to grind your way through to the highest possible gear setup, thats the fundamental reason people are playing any sort of rpg/mmo, TO GEAR UP. Now you do the math of how you will aquire a fully geared rank 10 enchanted character with perfect weapon and armor enchant with bop. Have you even thought about that? Or do you just find it so fantastic to slay draco that u dont mind doing it 15.000 times with your inventory full of bop.
the ad to zen ratio is just going to increase, there are those who have gotten stacks of zen by buying low and selling high and it will just continue to rise as more they get and people are willing to purchase for. the design of the game also makes some vital requiring zen so i can see people dont even mind spending up to a 1000 ad per zen. it will probably decline some after hitting 400 since playerbase and ad will be sparse after the bop changes. but those who played the ad/zen exchange are probably the ones who made the most out of this game.
have a good day-
Oh, every free to play gamer is automatically entitled, to obtain the best gems/items/mounts etc.? Without spending a single penny or putting effort into it and within no time? I am glad the devs have put a stop to this. This is in fact very healthy for the longevity of the game. People have something to work for, now. So, stop posting and start farming AD. Every minute counts.
In other word clone stamp builds... How exiting. What ever happened to D&D i wonder. PvPers are put on unfair disadvantage from the get go unless they have friends who are willing to gear them up. What you fail to realise not all have time to sink in to game. Even paying players will have to do that with BoP system. And most of the time people pay is because they cant devote much time. This game is the definition of casual friendly untill 60. It in no way prepares one for end game. To expect people to be leet players from get go is HAMSTER. How many do you think will quit after three or four failed runs in a row with no other way to progress on their character? It is going to be common now. With all "fixes" to make 11K players satisfied, since they find the game now too easy. Dungeons need to be revamped accordingly.
The game can not live only of off old players it needs to attract new ones as well.
Read more carefully. I have not said anything you claim.
That would be what? Most well only want sell what everyone wants. Now if can tell me ten things that can be sold more then 15K AD each or fast sellers then just maybe I'll shut up.
Three dark enchanments rank 5 cost 15k AD. Five azure rank 5 cost 15k. Five radiants rank 5 cost 15k. 150 greater identification scrolls sell for 15k, with ease. It is like i've said already, farm and dedicate time then be rewarded for it, but please stop trying to get everything cheap/for free. This is not how f2p mmos work.
All the best to you.
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croomsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited August 2013
Well, I got no opinion on how to solve the issue, however, these are my 2 cents bout it... (Sorry about the wall text lol)
Economy
The economy atm is pretty messed up. I got no idea of the average price of an item cuz its changing too often for me to keep track of. For instance, last week I was selling a Timeless Hero Armor for around 200k AD, right now, the price is around 800k/1kk. The Zen price went from 350 to 450 AD ea. This is completely messed up if you ask me.
Everyone that is able to finish any kind of eng-game content, be it Sharandar, Gaunt or CN, are mad, cuz now the main source of AD (IMHO) has been destroyed. So, since you cant get an item to sell out of a chest and the only way to acquire one is killing a boss, why not sell it for a huge amount of AD then?
However, the ones that need the items, the new players, dont have the cash to pay for them, making the economy go completely unstabble. It will take a few weeks for it to go back to normal, but the new lvl 60's will be the ones on the worst side of the edge. (Im in the Beholder Shard btw)
Gear Score
Gear Score is completely useless. The only thing you need it for is to get to the ED's at the end of the game. I did all dungeons with a 10k GS with no problems at all. However most partys are made based on a bottom GS needed for that party in particular. Most of my parties have 10k GS, and we can complete all the dungeons with no problems at all.
BoP Items
Im not very comfortable with this, cuz as I said, my main profit source is now messed up. However, there are many pro's 'n con's on this matter.
The good side is that having the item bound you wont loose anything in case of hacking. That, imo, is great.
Having the item bound you can "show off" that you managed to do a certain quest, ED or whatever, so many times that you managed to get all the items you needed for that character. Making this some sort of standard or elite player for everyone else to see.
Within the game this means a huge effort to complete a Set, means more hours of gameplay, and therefore, making the completion of a Set extremely rewarding for the player, making the completion of a set a complete different experience that it is nowadays, more rewarding than some huge amounts of AD's.
The downside, as I said, is that once you completed the set, made all ED's a hundred times, what the hell are you going to do? Play another char so that you have to do EVERYTHING AGAIN? This is a complete waste of time, because once you reach a level 60, know what every class has to do on a certain quest, you dont want to waste a huge amount of time just to get the GS needed for some ED. Or you could waste some stupid amount of AD' or RL cash to complete the sets faster (based upon the prices atm). Imo its just a waste of time/money.
Then why play the game? Its better to stop as soon as you reach 60. PWE just lost a player.
This could be easilly fixed if the items were not bound to the character, but to the account. Because at least you could exchange or save any other items you have for another character that you have or might have in the future.
Not BoP Items
Once again, it has its pro's 'n con's.
The pros are easy to see. You can sell items. You can buy any item you want. You can make an astonishing amount of cash in a matter of days. With luck, in a single week you can get over 2kk AD's!!!!! Awesome isn't it?
BUT, a problem was already entrenching itself in the market. As soon as you got 60, wasted some money, got the end game gear, you thought: "Hey, Im gonna do ED's all day long 'n make a HUGE amount of cash!!!!". What you didnt expect to find was the AH completely filled up with items. You paid 500k on your main hand weapon? The price now is 300/200k.
Once again, the economy is completely messed up. All your effort to do a quest, have the luck to get the item, wont be rewarded at all.
You can make other chars, get 60, get completely geared up, for what? No decent reward?
Then, why would I continue playing? PWE just lost a player.
Salvage Items
This was perfect! Now I know what to do with all those items I had in my bag and bank! But, 12k for a Timeless Hero Armor? 6k for a Ancient Slavemaster Ring of Control? Kinda useless imho.
At least now I have something to do with all my 500 drake seals. But it will take forever to do so, cuz I can only get 25k RAD daily.
This is a good perk to the game, but the amount of RAD could be increased a bit. I know that this feature prevents cheaters from farming PVP content, but at the same time prevents me from mking any sort of profit from this feature.
Conclusion (finally huh?! XD)
Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. PWE will loose players in both ways. However, in all of those matters, what should be taken in account is what the majority of players want. Some sort of pool thread should be made so everyone could state their opinions, and the content team of PWE would make the change based on the result of this pool.
Anyway, if read up to this point, I hope you agreed with something I said, if you didnt, please, feel free to send me a msg, post below, or just curse me...
Thx,
Crooms
Men are haunted by the vastness of eternity. And so we ask ourselves: will our actions echo across the centuries? Will strangers hear our names long after we are gone, and wonder who we were, how bravely we fought, how fiercely we loved?
If they ever tell my story, let them say I walked with giants.
i read the first 4 pages of this thread. i skipped all the nonsense in the rest of the pages.
there are 2 things you can do to get AD: BUY ZEN, BUY MORE ZEN.
Salvage Items
This was perfect! Now I know what to do with all those items I had in my bag and bank! But, 12k for a Timeless Hero Armor? 6k for a Ancient Slavemaster Ring of Control? Kinda useless imho.
Way I see it, on Beholder anyway. there were a couple of price ranges based on how easy the loot could be farmed. This made it relatively easy to purchase your T1 set through doing dailies, grabbing enchantments while wiping on every endboss until your GS got over 10k. And 10k AD was about the maximum cost of every piece, usually a bit less.
Then you get to do T2s, which drop the same cheap T1 loot, making it even cheaper, and the rare and therefor expensive T2 stuff. Price ranges imo between 30k and 100k.
But Zenstore stuff costs millions of ADs, which with BoP, Salvaging not paying much and even if it did, a 24k refine cap will still mean more than 40 times hitting that cap for your first million. I'm just thinking they made their game a whole lot more tedious, a lot more attractive to buy goods with Zen and a lot less attractive to grind for the ADs.
I'll be fine with latter two when they fix the tedious part. A bit better rewards in ADs from the salvager, Account Bound items so you can give your other toons a headstart, and possibly have "need" be bound and "greed" not.
Scaling the bosses and their mechanics better to all the blue geared folks getting slaughtered there might be nice too.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited August 2013
Economic 101 (well basic economic)
first you have to look at Supply vs Demand. This is the base of ANY economic. now when other variables are thrown in, it could shift supply and demand depending on these variables.
First we have AD. What is the supply of AD? Prayers, Crafting/Leadership skills, Recycles, and missions (I think I think some mission gave you some I can't remember) The rough AD are easy to come by but refined AD are allow upto 24k a day per character. so we have a gated item.
Demand for AD varies from different sink. Most of these are FIXED like AD store and trait reset (AD base) and crafting speed up (AD base)
We have a variable for AD for AH. This depend on the player market on how much they are willing to part AD for X item. Prices are determine by players (before the patch) now there is a BASE AD value of salvage which now sets the base price for many BoE item of the same type.
There is also a thirst for Zen. AD/Zen market changes (again player run) on how much a player willing to part Zen for AD. (max is 500 hardcoded and min is 50AD per Zen)
So what could change the market?
Inject AD via packs - increase AD rate to Zen ratio (more AD means higher AD needed to change into Zen)
BoP changes - Increase Value of the AD in AH.
Zen Sales - Decrease AD rate to Zen (more people buying Zen and willing to get less AD when converting)
The trick is to have a balance. Players can invest two things into the game. Time and Money (either or both) Time only (free play) can get all the items you want depend on how much time invested. Time spend wisely will yield better results (like using Gateway, efficient runs for Salvages etc) Money is used to buy Zen and can either convert to AD via AD/Zen market or buy items that players want (bags and keys) and sell on AH (again price varies due to AD/Zen Market)
Once players get the basic understanding of this, they can "manipulate" the market to their need (i.e. play the AD/Zen exchange and make profit just like Stock Market)
This is one the idea posted earlier (page 3) that could work in BOTH side (BoE and BoP) but the only difference is that in order to WEAR (i.e. turn in and get the actual item) you need to run the instances. but you can at least get the pieces first and get token later (or do other stuff to get tokens)
True. but what to change?
There is the prayers. These have their unique of "logging in everyday" feature. So we would have to keep that. One is just log in and pray, the other is everyday get better "stuff" upto 7 days before reset
We have AD/Zen. That has to stay for the market.
Gold is general currency.
the seals probably "may" have to go away or combine. I am thinking of DCUO system where you can use one token system (or at least 2 system) for all your needs. one type can buy T1 or T2 gear (T2 cost a lot more) while another system for T3.
A combination could be one token for all BUT have a "drop" (personal drop if need be) that is BoT (bind on turn in) this could be armor piece, weapon piece or enchantment piece. It can be sold on AH but still need TOKEN to cash it in.
So lets say I run T1 instance. I got 4 token from on instance (say 1 per boss for simplicity) and I got 2 drops. One Chest and One hat. It is "generic" pieces that you can turn in. So when you turn in, you can CHOOSE what T1 you need. Say chest piece cost 4 token while hat may cost 3 token. This can be a "win win" for many people you still have the item sell on AH (to get the drop) but you can also turn in to what you need (thus to WEAR the T1 you would need to run a couple of time to get token to change it)
Now T2 pieces gotten from instance, but may need 20 token for chest (random number) but can earn those token from lower level instances OR high level BUT the piece will only be drop from Certain instances (like maybe chest piece/hat from one instance, and arm and leg from another or weapon from another. Or make it random in all T2 instance)
This is a radical change, but it will promote players to run ALL instances (to get token) and still have AH market (base pieces to turn in for T1/T2/T3 pieces)
Now T3 may need 40 tokens and chest piece but T3 will also yield higher Token per boss ratio than T1 boss
This could rid of seals and just use Token to BUY the pieces you need (like T0.5 to tide you over until you can actually get a T1 piece). Token can also be earn (say limit to 1-3 a day) from PvE (i.e. change some instance to a long run instances that could be a daily mission that is harder than normal dailies)
I think this system (while look good on "paper") could appease all classes of players. AH players will still have a market to sell "rough pieces" the e-peen players that you have to run instances (or a lot of dailies) to get their pieces, and new players which will get some elite players to run low level instances (like T3 gear player running T1) to stock up on tokens AND able to get pieces to sell on AH.
Now one other change might be in place that would be good with this system. Auto assign loot to players (random by the system) that way we don't get into issue need/greed. Another change would be that loot are assign RIGHT after the boss die regardless if they are in team or not (if you tag it, you are eligible for it. this will prevent player from kicking other players before the boss died) This include token system.
Three dark enchanments rank 5 cost 15k AD. Five azure rank 5 cost 15k. Five radiants rank 5 cost 15k. 150 greater identification scrolls sell for 15k, with ease. It is like i've said already, farm and dedicate time then be rewarded for it, but please stop trying to get everything cheap/for free. This is not how f2p mmos work.
All the best to you.
I don't see one item that 15k each ,I do however see stack of items for 15k and who want take time to get 150 ID scrolls . I for one don't want to . I won't mind running a dungeon if I could sell my loot for AD and NOT reff AD.
ohhh the DD chest loot is BOP,,,now i cant sell the necks/belts/whatever for 2k AD but i can salvage them for 4k AD....stop making dumb posts plz...if u sit 4 hours in a queue sorry to say but you are a little dumb man....its not cryptic fault that u sit on the queue for hours instead of forming a group...
Three dark enchanments rank 5 cost 15k AD. Five azure rank 5 cost 15k. Five radiants rank 5 cost 15k. 150 greater identification scrolls sell for 15k, with ease. It is like i've said already, farm and dedicate time then be rewarded for it, but please stop trying to get everything cheap/for free. This is not how f2p mmos work.
All the best to you.
Annnnnnd it's just that simple.Why people want so much for nothing I have no idea.
ohhh the DD chest loot is BOP,,,now i cant sell the necks/belts/whatever for 2k AD but i can salvage them for 4k AD....stop making dumb posts plz...if u sit 4 hours in a queue sorry to say but you are a little dumb man....its not cryptic fault that u sit on the queue for hours instead of forming a group...
I better have 2k AD I don't have to refine then 4k that have to refine.
Basically you can spend months grinding the gear/enchants/ad in order to get yourself geared up or buy Zen. Why do you think they want gear/enchants to be so tedious to get? Basically they don't want players making much AD in game to forcefully drive them to the zen store. The game was amazing pre module 1. Now it's just another p2w game with more bugs than features.
spanky2014Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 78
edited August 2013
Malabog BOP.... kidding me? And it drops only blues 90% of the time. Why would I even do this dungeon lol.
BOP on chest, ok i don't mind that so much cause you get to choose your gear.
Retune the boss drops make them 100% drop the T2 item they says, not crappy T1 loots. This will give groups or seriously geared people "INCENTIVE" to do dungeons.
End rant.
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rragleMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I didn't go through pve before the patch ( I made all of my money crafting to buy gear)
Since the patch, I had no other choice but to spend time in MC for the off hand.
Comments
I'm not so worried about the economy. Most problems work themselves out over time. I am more worried about getting my brother over to play. It's going to be much much harder to talk him into coming now that he can't catch up as fast. It was one of the main reasons I liked the BOE system. A player that only really likes the raiding / difficult content scene was much more likely to come over from the game they are established in and give it a try.
Obviously the game should not stop moving forward just so my brother will come over, but it is a reason why the boe system was, in some respects, a good thing.
people actually work for a living not working as a grinder in a game. i understand the mentality, but for the most part you will see a declining playerbase when the motivation gets broken about spending too much time with no payback... or the little payback u call work.
the motivation, and the fundamental core of the game is to grind your way through to the highest possible gear setup, thats the fundamental reason people are playing any sort of rpg/mmo, TO GEAR UP. Now you do the math of how you will aquire a fully geared rank 10 enchanted character with perfect weapon and armor enchant with bop. Have you even thought about that? Or do you just find it so fantastic to slay draco that u dont mind doing it 15.000 times with your inventory full of bop.
the ad to zen ratio is just going to increase, there are those who have gotten stacks of zen by buying low and selling high and it will just continue to rise as more they get and people are willing to purchase for. the design of the game also makes some vital requiring zen so i can see people dont even mind spending up to a 1000 ad per zen. it will probably decline some after hitting 400 since playerbase and ad will be sparse after the bop changes. but those who played the ad/zen exchange are probably the ones who made the most out of this game.
have a good day-
Durp durp de durp. Again, they reward rough diamonds, not actual diamonds. There is a limit to 24k a day, which is exactly what the limit was pre-patch. It doesn't matter how many avenues exist when they only reward rough diamonds. You still have to convert these and there is a cap on how many you can convert in a day. Through dailies, invoking and salvaging, people are putting in the exact amount of diamonds that they were before the patch, not more.
I would venture to say with the drop in players, and with more of those who consider themselves fully finished (I.E, those who are in head to toe perfects, we know who they are.) that there is actually less floating around. The super rich don't need anything, so they sit on all of the goods because it keeps them 'special'.
If you have any doubts still that there are fewer resources available, look at the original hero of the north sales versus the fey pack sales. That is the real way AD comes into the game, 600k at a time. The bulk of the diamonds floating around have come from exploitation and real currency. I really don't believe that the bulk of players are capping their 24k a day on dailies anyhow.
Also you do know that people are only able to convert Zen to AD because players are selling their AD. So in a way if you ever converted AD to ZEN then you helped people to be able to Pay 2 Win but what you helped them win I really don’t know.
Have DD chest loot reverted to BOE, but implement a system where BOP seals for a tier drop in minor amounts from the first bosses, and a large amount from the last boss, with none or an extremely low amount dropping from DD chest compared to what drops from the last boss.
These seals could be used to upgrade T2 or T1 pieces with a stat and set bonus efficacy factor of around 6-10%. Set bonus efficacy increase at 1/4th of the total amount for every piece upgraded, or if difficult to code based on current framework, then one could make it so that it is a kind of third set bonus that is hidden tooltip wise and achieved upon having all 4 upgraded.
Possible twist which would complicate matters: Have a different kind of seal for each slot that drops only in the appropriate dungeon.
Possible twist on twist: Have different kinds of seals of this sort interconvertible with 66% loss ratio.
Regarding dungeons with no set item: Either seals to upgrade items that can drop from its last boss and/or seals that can be exchanged for enchants or boe jewelry appropriate for the difficulty level of the dungeon.
Similar to the current Reinforce Gloves/Bracers from crafting.
~ Epeen / achievement value factor remains.
~ Pay 2 STRONK HULKSMASH (PWE profitability)/ Speed up / Quickly gear up alt remains.
~ Relatively consistent rate of DD hour profit for prospective sellers remain.
Everyone is reasonably happy.
Currently, DD hour dungeon grinders with all their gear are not happy due to the inconsistency in T2 profitability and the relative absence of alternate game content.
Your averge Zen--->AD purchaser is not happy due to the prices of BOE gear in real money.
The achieving= Best Gear crowd is not happy. Because ultimately, even with high prices, paying to win can circumvent pretty much all actual playing.
For a Free to Play / Pay to STRONG game to be successful, three somewhat overlapping crowds need to be successfully catered to. Casuals /potential mild spenders, Elite Players (mostly free to play) and heavy spenders. There is no community, driving force and reputation without Elite Players. There is no profitability without the heavy and casual spenders and there is no living world without the casuals.
Derailment towards off-topic:
Possible moar twist on everything an all all stuff and things: Every kind of seal that grants unsellable and sellable items should be usable to purchase something which will always be useful/valuable, like for example enchants and/or shards of weapon/armour enchants and/or wards. Salvaging everything does not give good game-feel and is not conducive to a vibrant game economy and people feeling like it's worth clinging onto this game. The dopamine factor is not there.
That would be what? Most well only want sell what everyone wants. Now if can tell me ten things that can be sold more then 15K AD each or fast sellers then just maybe I'll shut up.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
They have added more ways to gain Ruff AD which means that it’s easier to hit the refine cap this means that more people will now be hitting the cap which in turns means that more refined AD will be coming in to the system. I never said that they had increased the limit of ruff AD that can be refined this is some that you have just assumed.
What drop in players while I have been playing I have not really seen any significant drop in players. Who are these super rich players that you talk of are they like the illuminate.
Just out of curiosity how do you have access to the sales stats for these packs. I think I already covered that these packs are one of the ways that new AD come in to the game not sure if they are the main way as there is not really any reason to buy multiples of these packs after you have purchased one.
I would tend to agree with your that the majority of players where probably not maxing there refine rate but with these new ways of getting Ruff AD it’s been made easier for people to be able to do this.
Also if you look at the amount of the Ruff AD that can be refined over the course of 30 days its not exactly small chance it comes to 750,000, AD or about 1900 Zen based on current AD to ZEN exchange rates.
Hahah, okay. I have been playing since June. I play on Beholder, and PVP all the time. I have seen 0 people with perfect anything(brilliant doesn't count as it comes with $60 packs), and the highest I have seen is a Rank 8. I have a 15k GS (3rd highest I have seen on my server), and only have Rank 6's and normal Lifedrinker, and Lesser Soulforge. Dude, a 10 mil AD perfect enchant equates to a little over THREE HUNDRED REAL WORLD DOLLARS. You are living a pipe dream if you think you can EVER grind for one of those, let alone slot your entire toon.
Totally get that Kinda kicking me self as I didnt buy some T1 gear before the patch. But not to bothered if Im honest should be fun gearing my self up. Me and my Girlfirend are very close to level 60so will be starting on our gear grind soon kinda excited about.
Oh, every free to play gamer is automatically entitled, to obtain the best gems/items/mounts etc.? Without spending a single penny or putting effort into it and within no time? I am glad the devs have put a stop to this. This is in fact very healthy for the longevity of the game. People have something to work for, now. So, stop posting and start farming AD. Every minute counts.
Seeya.
Read more carefully. I have not said anything you claim.
Bye.
Three dark enchanments rank 5 cost 15k AD. Five azure rank 5 cost 15k. Five radiants rank 5 cost 15k. 150 greater identification scrolls sell for 15k, with ease. It is like i've said already, farm and dedicate time then be rewarded for it, but please stop trying to get everything cheap/for free. This is not how f2p mmos work.
All the best to you.
Economy
The economy atm is pretty messed up. I got no idea of the average price of an item cuz its changing too often for me to keep track of. For instance, last week I was selling a Timeless Hero Armor for around 200k AD, right now, the price is around 800k/1kk. The Zen price went from 350 to 450 AD ea. This is completely messed up if you ask me.
Everyone that is able to finish any kind of eng-game content, be it Sharandar, Gaunt or CN, are mad, cuz now the main source of AD (IMHO) has been destroyed. So, since you cant get an item to sell out of a chest and the only way to acquire one is killing a boss, why not sell it for a huge amount of AD then?
However, the ones that need the items, the new players, dont have the cash to pay for them, making the economy go completely unstabble. It will take a few weeks for it to go back to normal, but the new lvl 60's will be the ones on the worst side of the edge. (Im in the Beholder Shard btw)
Gear Score
Gear Score is completely useless. The only thing you need it for is to get to the ED's at the end of the game. I did all dungeons with a 10k GS with no problems at all. However most partys are made based on a bottom GS needed for that party in particular. Most of my parties have 10k GS, and we can complete all the dungeons with no problems at all.
BoP Items
Im not very comfortable with this, cuz as I said, my main profit source is now messed up. However, there are many pro's 'n con's on this matter.
The good side is that having the item bound you wont loose anything in case of hacking. That, imo, is great.
Having the item bound you can "show off" that you managed to do a certain quest, ED or whatever, so many times that you managed to get all the items you needed for that character. Making this some sort of standard or elite player for everyone else to see.
Within the game this means a huge effort to complete a Set, means more hours of gameplay, and therefore, making the completion of a Set extremely rewarding for the player, making the completion of a set a complete different experience that it is nowadays, more rewarding than some huge amounts of AD's.
The downside, as I said, is that once you completed the set, made all ED's a hundred times, what the hell are you going to do? Play another char so that you have to do EVERYTHING AGAIN? This is a complete waste of time, because once you reach a level 60, know what every class has to do on a certain quest, you dont want to waste a huge amount of time just to get the GS needed for some ED. Or you could waste some stupid amount of AD' or RL cash to complete the sets faster (based upon the prices atm). Imo its just a waste of time/money.
Then why play the game? Its better to stop as soon as you reach 60. PWE just lost a player.
This could be easilly fixed if the items were not bound to the character, but to the account. Because at least you could exchange or save any other items you have for another character that you have or might have in the future.
Not BoP Items
Once again, it has its pro's 'n con's.
The pros are easy to see. You can sell items. You can buy any item you want. You can make an astonishing amount of cash in a matter of days. With luck, in a single week you can get over 2kk AD's!!!!! Awesome isn't it?
BUT, a problem was already entrenching itself in the market. As soon as you got 60, wasted some money, got the end game gear, you thought: "Hey, Im gonna do ED's all day long 'n make a HUGE amount of cash!!!!". What you didnt expect to find was the AH completely filled up with items. You paid 500k on your main hand weapon? The price now is 300/200k.
Once again, the economy is completely messed up. All your effort to do a quest, have the luck to get the item, wont be rewarded at all.
You can make other chars, get 60, get completely geared up, for what? No decent reward?
Then, why would I continue playing? PWE just lost a player.
Salvage Items
This was perfect! Now I know what to do with all those items I had in my bag and bank! But, 12k for a Timeless Hero Armor? 6k for a Ancient Slavemaster Ring of Control? Kinda useless imho.
At least now I have something to do with all my 500 drake seals. But it will take forever to do so, cuz I can only get 25k RAD daily.
This is a good perk to the game, but the amount of RAD could be increased a bit. I know that this feature prevents cheaters from farming PVP content, but at the same time prevents me from mking any sort of profit from this feature.
Conclusion (finally huh?! XD)
Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. PWE will loose players in both ways. However, in all of those matters, what should be taken in account is what the majority of players want. Some sort of pool thread should be made so everyone could state their opinions, and the content team of PWE would make the change based on the result of this pool.
Anyway, if read up to this point, I hope you agreed with something I said, if you didnt, please, feel free to send me a msg, post below, or just curse me...
Thx,
Crooms
If they ever tell my story, let them say I walked with giants.
there are 2 things you can do to get AD: BUY ZEN, BUY MORE ZEN.
nuff said.
i already quitted this, cya.
Way I see it, on Beholder anyway. there were a couple of price ranges based on how easy the loot could be farmed. This made it relatively easy to purchase your T1 set through doing dailies, grabbing enchantments while wiping on every endboss until your GS got over 10k. And 10k AD was about the maximum cost of every piece, usually a bit less.
Then you get to do T2s, which drop the same cheap T1 loot, making it even cheaper, and the rare and therefor expensive T2 stuff. Price ranges imo between 30k and 100k.
But Zenstore stuff costs millions of ADs, which with BoP, Salvaging not paying much and even if it did, a 24k refine cap will still mean more than 40 times hitting that cap for your first million. I'm just thinking they made their game a whole lot more tedious, a lot more attractive to buy goods with Zen and a lot less attractive to grind for the ADs.
I'll be fine with latter two when they fix the tedious part. A bit better rewards in ADs from the salvager, Account Bound items so you can give your other toons a headstart, and possibly have "need" be bound and "greed" not.
Scaling the bosses and their mechanics better to all the blue geared folks getting slaughtered there might be nice too.
first you have to look at Supply vs Demand. This is the base of ANY economic. now when other variables are thrown in, it could shift supply and demand depending on these variables.
First we have AD. What is the supply of AD? Prayers, Crafting/Leadership skills, Recycles, and missions (I think I think some mission gave you some I can't remember) The rough AD are easy to come by but refined AD are allow upto 24k a day per character. so we have a gated item.
Demand for AD varies from different sink. Most of these are FIXED like AD store and trait reset (AD base) and crafting speed up (AD base)
We have a variable for AD for AH. This depend on the player market on how much they are willing to part AD for X item. Prices are determine by players (before the patch) now there is a BASE AD value of salvage which now sets the base price for many BoE item of the same type.
There is also a thirst for Zen. AD/Zen market changes (again player run) on how much a player willing to part Zen for AD. (max is 500 hardcoded and min is 50AD per Zen)
So what could change the market?
Inject AD via packs - increase AD rate to Zen ratio (more AD means higher AD needed to change into Zen)
BoP changes - Increase Value of the AD in AH.
Zen Sales - Decrease AD rate to Zen (more people buying Zen and willing to get less AD when converting)
The trick is to have a balance. Players can invest two things into the game. Time and Money (either or both) Time only (free play) can get all the items you want depend on how much time invested. Time spend wisely will yield better results (like using Gateway, efficient runs for Salvages etc) Money is used to buy Zen and can either convert to AD via AD/Zen market or buy items that players want (bags and keys) and sell on AH (again price varies due to AD/Zen Market)
Once players get the basic understanding of this, they can "manipulate" the market to their need (i.e. play the AD/Zen exchange and make profit just like Stock Market)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
This is one the idea posted earlier (page 3) that could work in BOTH side (BoE and BoP) but the only difference is that in order to WEAR (i.e. turn in and get the actual item) you need to run the instances. but you can at least get the pieces first and get token later (or do other stuff to get tokens)
True. but what to change?
There is the prayers. These have their unique of "logging in everyday" feature. So we would have to keep that. One is just log in and pray, the other is everyday get better "stuff" upto 7 days before reset
We have AD/Zen. That has to stay for the market.
Gold is general currency.
the seals probably "may" have to go away or combine. I am thinking of DCUO system where you can use one token system (or at least 2 system) for all your needs. one type can buy T1 or T2 gear (T2 cost a lot more) while another system for T3.
A combination could be one token for all BUT have a "drop" (personal drop if need be) that is BoT (bind on turn in) this could be armor piece, weapon piece or enchantment piece. It can be sold on AH but still need TOKEN to cash it in.
So lets say I run T1 instance. I got 4 token from on instance (say 1 per boss for simplicity) and I got 2 drops. One Chest and One hat. It is "generic" pieces that you can turn in. So when you turn in, you can CHOOSE what T1 you need. Say chest piece cost 4 token while hat may cost 3 token. This can be a "win win" for many people you still have the item sell on AH (to get the drop) but you can also turn in to what you need (thus to WEAR the T1 you would need to run a couple of time to get token to change it)
Now T2 pieces gotten from instance, but may need 20 token for chest (random number) but can earn those token from lower level instances OR high level BUT the piece will only be drop from Certain instances (like maybe chest piece/hat from one instance, and arm and leg from another or weapon from another. Or make it random in all T2 instance)
This is a radical change, but it will promote players to run ALL instances (to get token) and still have AH market (base pieces to turn in for T1/T2/T3 pieces)
Now T3 may need 40 tokens and chest piece but T3 will also yield higher Token per boss ratio than T1 boss
This could rid of seals and just use Token to BUY the pieces you need (like T0.5 to tide you over until you can actually get a T1 piece). Token can also be earn (say limit to 1-3 a day) from PvE (i.e. change some instance to a long run instances that could be a daily mission that is harder than normal dailies)
I think this system (while look good on "paper") could appease all classes of players. AH players will still have a market to sell "rough pieces" the e-peen players that you have to run instances (or a lot of dailies) to get their pieces, and new players which will get some elite players to run low level instances (like T3 gear player running T1) to stock up on tokens AND able to get pieces to sell on AH.
Now one other change might be in place that would be good with this system. Auto assign loot to players (random by the system) that way we don't get into issue need/greed. Another change would be that loot are assign RIGHT after the boss die regardless if they are in team or not (if you tag it, you are eligible for it. this will prevent player from kicking other players before the boss died) This include token system.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Anyway, I agree with the BoP from DD chests. Now people need to actually run the DDs to earn their gear rather than drop a few diamonds.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
"Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
I better have 2k AD I don't have to refine then 4k that have to refine.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
BOP on chest, ok i don't mind that so much cause you get to choose your gear.
Retune the boss drops make them 100% drop the T2 item they says, not crappy T1 loots. This will give groups or seriously geared people "INCENTIVE" to do dungeons.
End rant.
Since the patch, I had no other choice but to spend time in MC for the off hand.
So if that was there intention, then it worked!
Slows down the pay to win kids/bads; yet still has profitable purpose.
l 0 l ............