I had a level 20-something DC and a level 7 CW for the Valindra event. You can imagine how it went for me. It was still a lot of fun, though, and I managed to get the Protector of the Enclave title for both characters in it, so I'm happy overall.
I knew something was up with the DC class when my then-new CW was three-shotting minions and stomping battletested orcs with little trouble in the Tower District, whereas I had to stalk other people as my DC just to get through the zone's quests without dying more than the three times I already had from too much aggro and not being able to take down enemies. That was in open beta; they were already weak then, and this update just makes their damage-dealing even worse. I don't expect to top the dps charts, but I do expect to deal enough damage to survive without blowing through stacks of 20 potions of greater healing just for main-area questing -- not even touching dungeons / skirmishes.
I had to wait for 50 points for HoF, just to have it be rendered inferior to everything else I have that was barely enough to keep my class viable to begin with? Really?
(Perspective check on potions I mention: My level 39 CW has never bought a potion. She has over 100 unbound healing potions, and a couple dozen more bound. My DC is always out of potions despite having the ability to heal. What is this I do not even.)
Cleric self healing debuff makes them use far more potions then any other class. That's not the only problem, because they are a natural target they need more defence but they don't get that so they get whacked around, stunned, proned, chain CC'd to death most of the time in PvP and in PvE well they fare better if dps spec if not it's not that much better (except that the AI doesn't focus them quite so much)
I just tested level 60 PvP and cleric is even weaker then before (and this is on my dps spec that can actually kill and hits very hard, I shudder to think what this is like on a healing spec cleric, they don't touch PvP). Hammer of fate is now worthless as my AoE encounter powers and flamestrike both do more damage then this daily.
That's the stuff I have problems with on my DC. I'm getting tired of seeing myself complain, but darn it, it just seems so much harder to be a DC than to be any other class.
"You're a healer, you don't need potions!" So we get a sizeable debuff to self-healing and blow throw potions more than anyone else.
"You're the second tank class after GF!" So we draw aggro like nobody's business and don't have the defense to keep up because we're apparently not supposed to be THAT tanky. Seriously my DC has drawn aggro off GF-double-marked enemies before, it's crazy.
"You don't need to deal damage -- you're a healbot, you outlast the enemies because you're a tank that heals!" So when I do storyline quests, I'm supposed to heal the enemies to death? Or beat my head against them until they die? Except I can't, because I'm too squishy to last long enough to do it at the rate I deal damage.
It's like someone forgot what they were doing with the DC class.
At least a smaller debuff, like 20%. I'm most concerned about HoF right now; other stuff could wait if we could just have acknowledgement of this one thing to start off with.
At least a smaller debuff, like 20%. I'm most concerned about HoF right now; other stuff could wait if we could just have acknowledgement of this one thing to start off with.
DCs don't need a "smaller debuff". Our clerics don't need debuffs at all, they need ridiculous amount of buffing, fixing buggy/pointless feats etc etc, and a brand new set with a lot of regeneration on it. Problem is that devs are aware that clerics are disadvantaged, they simply want it to stay that way and even stomp the class even further.
I dunno, maybe we should "whine" louder and more actively, this tactics seems to work well for rogues.
DCs don't need a "smaller debuff". Our clerics don't need debuffs at all, they need ridiculous amount of buffing, fixing buggy/pointless feats etc etc, and a brand new set with a lot of regeneration on it. Problem is that devs are aware that clerics are disadvantaged, they simply want it to stay that way and even stomp the class even further.
I dunno, maybe we should "whine" louder and more actively, this tactics seems to work well for rogues.
I agree, Cleric are the weakest class right now and then they go and nerf us further....
Is it just me or did they nerf our Flamestrike too so that it cannot crit? Flamestrike needs to be able to crit!
DCs don't need a "smaller debuff". Our clerics don't need debuffs at all, they need ridiculous amount of buffing, fixing buggy/pointless feats etc etc, and a brand new set with a lot of regeneration on it. Problem is that devs are aware that clerics are disadvantaged, they simply want it to stay that way and even stomp the class even further.
I dunno, maybe we should "whine" louder and more actively, this tactics seems to work well for rogues.
That's why I made this topic where I did instead of sticking to our class forum and I keep bumping it whenever I don't have the last post -- so somebody will finally see it besides us.
I'm trying to be conservative on debuff vs. no debuff vs. buff just because I don't want DCs to end up overpowered and get nerfed all over again, but...ideally I'd like to see no debuff (or much smaller debuff) on self-healing, a third shift like CWs have (or much, much higher stamina regen, because right now dodging is a joke if you're a DC), and un-nerf HoF so that it's actually useable again. More defense would also be good. I don't want my DC to be sup3r 1337 OP pwnz0rz -- I just don't want her to be at death's door all the time in normal questing, knowing that it's because of improper class balance since my other characters don't have anywhere near the kind of trouble she does as a DC.
On Flamestrike -- I haven't been playing my DC enough to notice whether it was critting or not (I don't recall it critting in Spellplague the other day but I may not have noticed if it did). I've built a reasonable amount of crit on her, so I'll see if I can get it to crit. If it's not critting, I would hope it's an unnoticed bug and not an intentional ninja-nerf....
That's why I made this topic where I did instead of sticking to our class forum and I keep bumping it whenever I don't have the last post -- so somebody will finally see it besides us.
On Flamestrike -- I haven't been playing my DC enough to notice whether it was critting or not (I don't recall it critting in Spellplague the other day but I may not have noticed if it did). I've built a reasonable amount of crit on her, so I'll see if I can get it to crit. If it's not critting, I would hope it's an unnoticed bug and not an intentional ninja-nerf....
Same here, also before the patch flamestrike definitely could crit, post patch I have not seen it crit yet. I'll keep testing but it appears that it cannot crit now.
Flamestrike can not crit anymore, so divine armor and hg are the only viable Dailies.
At least Miracle Healer 4-Set gives us some **** to annoy people :>
Flamestrike can not crit anymore, so divine armor and hg are the only viable Dailies.
At least Miracle Healer 4-Set gives us some **** to annoy people :>
This and the Hammer of fate nerf need to be reversed. They are both stupid.
This and the Hammer of fate nerf need to be reversed. They are both stupid.
+1. With the major issues cropping up (crashes, etc.) there's probably no way we'll get attention on this right now either way, but I would hope someone involved in class / combat design would be free from dealing with the other bugs and might be able to take a look at the DCs....
They did actually listen to our crying, when we cried about how the tab trick doesn't work, they reverted it and it works now.
but I do agree that the Hammer nerf is dumb and if Flame Strike doesn't crit anymore, I agree that that's dumb too. Am I the only one here who thought leveling a rogue was 462845 times harder than leveling a cleric, and that the cleric was facerollingly easy, although slow, to level?
Yes, because they had already planned on rendering SB as useless as it is now, so whatever...
sunburst is not useless, it's just not an obvious choice to grab anymore.
Also nerfing sunburst and then the 2 big damage dealing dailies is just a slap in the face. Only cleric I still play is my controlelr dps spec one, and I've only been soloing sharandar on her really. My faithful spec one is on hold completely. And my righteous spec one is just leveling from crafting invoking.
My DC has something like a 25% crit rate and I couldn't get Flame Strike to crit. I'd like her crit rate to get higher before I declare something's up, so I'll re-equip some stuff and try it some more later.
My DC has something like a 25% crit rate and I couldn't get Flame Strike to crit. I'd like her crit rate to get higher before I declare something's up, so I'll re-equip some stuff and try it some more later.
I have a 31% crit chance and have not been able to get flamestrike to crit. I did a bit of contrast comparison with hammer of fate (fail more like) and it would crit with about the same regularity as my encounters and at-wills but flamestrike has not crit once since the patch.
Hammer of Fate: -40% damage
Flame Strike (aoe daily): No more criticals
Good, now what we need is a nerf like -70% damage on our Daunting Light. Because that power does more damage than our dailies, and it is an encounter. In sharandar I manage to have some 20k aoe Daunting Light, it's too much, my flame strike can barely hit for 8k and my hammer of fate for ~10k
Please our Daunting Light is way too powerful compared to our dps Dailies, you must nerf it.
Well, what about Searing Light? It hits multiple targets, so its damage should get halved for every enemy it hits. And instead of it damaging enemies around your target when channeling divinity, it would be better off with a new feature: it would now give back 15% of your pip on a successful kill (but only in PvP, as it would be broken in PvE and to be fixed right after the vague tooltip for Templar's Domain).
Also, it could have been a coincidence, but there were four clerics in total (out of forty players) in a Gauntlgrym match earlier even though it was the daily Neverember quest. That's simply too many. My suggestion is that clerics get at least 40% damage reduction on all encounters in any upcoming balance patch, so that real classes can battle in peace without a cleric accidentally kill stealing with their DoTs. And seriously, the holy roller skates have to be removed in battle because clerics should only use them to scurry off to heal their teammates, not to make anyone else to work for their rolfstomp kill for two extra seconds.
And hey, if only there was a feature to summon/dismiss DCs in PvE and maybe a helpful map pointer for PvP to tell the enemy team where to go to get their fifty bonus points... :rolleyes:
//Edit: I love this game and I like playing a cleric, but I snark because the direction where the cleric class is heading worries me and we get so little response I'm unsure if anyone actually listens. To quote, "I'm 131 pounds of pale skin and fragile bones. Sarcasm is my only defense."
Indeed! And, a some fine gents noted earlier, healing classes should only heal, period. So DCs must not deal damage at all: instead, they should get a further -60% reduction on self-heals (can't allow healers heal themselves, now can we) and gain a "fatal weakness" debuff whenever they dare to participate in PvP: -40% defense, -40% power, -40% movement, something along these lines.
Sounds good. And as for those clerics who enjoy solo content like storylines and foundries, well, all they really need to do is just to find a chaperone. Got that new and shiny LFG channel for that, and it's a win-win for both as the chaperone gets loot & uses no potions and the cleric uses a few potions less.
//Edit: I love this game and I like playing a cleric, but I snark because the direction where the cleric class is heading worries me and we get so little response I'm unsure if anyone actually listens. To quote, "I'm 131 pounds of pale skin and fragile bones. Sarcasm is my only defense."
Same here; that's why I've been going on about this non-stop ever since the nerf was announced (just far too quietly until it went live). I love playing NW and I love the cleric class -- that's why I chose a DC as my first character and have finally leveled her to 60 (i.e. 20 levels above the next nearest character of mine, who should be level 30 quest-wise and has leveled because of professions/invoking while I focus on my DC). The problem is that the current nerfs and (hopefully) bugs for our damage-dealing spells are a step in the wrong direction, and the class that the DC is becoming is not the class that I made an account to play.
It doesn't matter that they don't care, it only matters that we care. And once we won't care anymore, who'll be playing their game? Chinese legions of the gold-sellers and botters?
Sounds good. And as for those clerics who enjoy solo content like storylines and foundries, well, all they really need to do is just to find a chaperone. Got that new and shiny LFG channel for that, and it's a win-win for both as the chaperone gets loot & uses no potions and the cleric uses a few potions less.
Nice touch about only chaperone getting the lewtz, after all, you don't expect your cleric pet to get a share.
0
reshaimMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 21Arc User
edited August 2013
Just my two cents here.
I play the DC as my first character and i've developed a build that made me enjoy this class, at least until the last update (for those interested here is my build, mainly a buffer/debuffer).
Concerning the matter about the Hammer of Fate, after the patch i'm able to do a little more damage with just Daunting Light than HoF, so i've took out that Daily my skills choice.
Let me put things clear i've took out a Daily because and Encounter power is at the same level if not better, not considering the fact that HoF is single Target while DL is an Area Effect.
So, i slowly build my AP to cast my only serious damaging daily and i get something that's at the same level of an encounter? What's the meaning of sacrificing the (now) hard earned AP for this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
It's a Daily and the last one the DC gets, it cost us serious resources to cast (AP) and we get a crappy power for our ONLY consinstent damage power and you still have the courage to say us that we have only to heal?
Then why there are the kind of specs accessible to the Classes?
If i don't want to play my DC as a moving hospital i should have the right to do so, i'm not saying that i will have to do damage comparable to a DD or Tank class but i believe i should be able to play the class the way i like without being Overpowered or else is totally useless to have 3 kinds of specs.
So if i build a Character who mainly pumps up the Crit stat and i use my Daily to damage an opponent i expect to do some serious damage (serious doesn't mean insta-kill), not something that's equal to an encounter, it's just common sense that for an higher price (both in AP and character development) we could get something useful.
And quit telling us that a DC gotta only do "Healing" or else is useless to have 3 specs.
And if i'm good enough to build a different DC to play that fits my style it's just plain idiocy that i have to be penalized.
They didn't with TR i don't see why we must allow them to do this with the DC.
If i don't want to play my DC as a moving hospital i should have the right to do so, i'm not saying that i will have to do damage comparable to a DD or Tank class but i believe i should be able to play the class the way i like without being Overpowered or else is totally useless to have 3 kinds of specs.
Now this is something I don't get. Why is it okay for tanks to deal a damage? Let them do their job only, tank stuff to death. 'Cuz they're tanks, lald.
Comments
Cleric self healing debuff makes them use far more potions then any other class. That's not the only problem, because they are a natural target they need more defence but they don't get that so they get whacked around, stunned, proned, chain CC'd to death most of the time in PvP and in PvE well they fare better if dps spec if not it's not that much better (except that the AI doesn't focus them quite so much)
I just tested level 60 PvP and cleric is even weaker then before (and this is on my dps spec that can actually kill and hits very hard, I shudder to think what this is like on a healing spec cleric, they don't touch PvP). Hammer of fate is now worthless as my AoE encounter powers and flamestrike both do more damage then this daily.
"You're a healer, you don't need potions!" So we get a sizeable debuff to self-healing and blow throw potions more than anyone else.
"You're the second tank class after GF!" So we draw aggro like nobody's business and don't have the defense to keep up because we're apparently not supposed to be THAT tanky. Seriously my DC has drawn aggro off GF-double-marked enemies before, it's crazy.
"You don't need to deal damage -- you're a healbot, you outlast the enemies because you're a tank that heals!" So when I do storyline quests, I'm supposed to heal the enemies to death? Or beat my head against them until they die? Except I can't, because I'm too squishy to last long enough to do it at the rate I deal damage.
It's like someone forgot what they were doing with the DC class.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
DCs don't need a "smaller debuff". Our clerics don't need debuffs at all, they need ridiculous amount of buffing, fixing buggy/pointless feats etc etc, and a brand new set with a lot of regeneration on it. Problem is that devs are aware that clerics are disadvantaged, they simply want it to stay that way and even stomp the class even further.
I dunno, maybe we should "whine" louder and more actively, this tactics seems to work well for rogues.
I agree, Cleric are the weakest class right now and then they go and nerf us further....
Is it just me or did they nerf our Flamestrike too so that it cannot crit? Flamestrike needs to be able to crit!
That's why I made this topic where I did instead of sticking to our class forum and I keep bumping it whenever I don't have the last post -- so somebody will finally see it besides us.
I'm trying to be conservative on debuff vs. no debuff vs. buff just because I don't want DCs to end up overpowered and get nerfed all over again, but...ideally I'd like to see no debuff (or much smaller debuff) on self-healing, a third shift like CWs have (or much, much higher stamina regen, because right now dodging is a joke if you're a DC), and un-nerf HoF so that it's actually useable again. More defense would also be good. I don't want my DC to be sup3r 1337 OP pwnz0rz -- I just don't want her to be at death's door all the time in normal questing, knowing that it's because of improper class balance since my other characters don't have anywhere near the kind of trouble she does as a DC.
On Flamestrike -- I haven't been playing my DC enough to notice whether it was critting or not (I don't recall it critting in Spellplague the other day but I may not have noticed if it did). I've built a reasonable amount of crit on her, so I'll see if I can get it to crit. If it's not critting, I would hope it's an unnoticed bug and not an intentional ninja-nerf....
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Same here, also before the patch flamestrike definitely could crit, post patch I have not seen it crit yet. I'll keep testing but it appears that it cannot crit now.
At least Miracle Healer 4-Set gives us some **** to annoy people :>
This and the Hammer of fate nerf need to be reversed. They are both stupid.
+1. With the major issues cropping up (crashes, etc.) there's probably no way we'll get attention on this right now either way, but I would hope someone involved in class / combat design would be free from dealing with the other bugs and might be able to take a look at the DCs....
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
but I do agree that the Hammer nerf is dumb and if Flame Strike doesn't crit anymore, I agree that that's dumb too. Am I the only one here who thought leveling a rogue was 462845 times harder than leveling a cleric, and that the cleric was facerollingly easy, although slow, to level?
I want this class in NW.
sunburst is not useless, it's just not an obvious choice to grab anymore.
Also nerfing sunburst and then the 2 big damage dealing dailies is just a slap in the face. Only cleric I still play is my controlelr dps spec one, and I've only been soloing sharandar on her really. My faithful spec one is on hold completely. And my righteous spec one is just leveling from crafting invoking.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
I have a 31% crit chance and have not been able to get flamestrike to crit. I did a bit of contrast comparison with hammer of fate (fail more like) and it would crit with about the same regularity as my encounters and at-wills but flamestrike has not crit once since the patch.
We can always hope and try to get them to revert the stupid DC nerfs.
I want this class in NW.
They fixed it, crits are not intended. DCs are supposed to pretend that they are an upgraded versions of cleric disciple companions, you see.
Hammer of Fate: -40% damage
Flame Strike (aoe daily): No more criticals
Good, now what we need is a nerf like -70% damage on our Daunting Light. Because that power does more damage than our dailies, and it is an encounter. In sharandar I manage to have some 20k aoe Daunting Light, it's too much, my flame strike can barely hit for 8k and my hammer of fate for ~10k
Please our Daunting Light is way too powerful compared to our dps Dailies, you must nerf it.
[/irony]
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Also, it could have been a coincidence, but there were four clerics in total (out of forty players) in a Gauntlgrym match earlier even though it was the daily Neverember quest. That's simply too many. My suggestion is that clerics get at least 40% damage reduction on all encounters in any upcoming balance patch, so that real classes can battle in peace without a cleric accidentally kill stealing with their DoTs. And seriously, the holy roller skates have to be removed in battle because clerics should only use them to scurry off to heal their teammates, not to make anyone else to work for their rolfstomp kill for two extra seconds.
And hey, if only there was a feature to summon/dismiss DCs in PvE and maybe a helpful map pointer for PvP to tell the enemy team where to go to get their fifty bonus points... :rolleyes:
//Edit: I love this game and I like playing a cleric, but I snark because the direction where the cleric class is heading worries me and we get so little response I'm unsure if anyone actually listens. To quote, "I'm 131 pounds of pale skin and fragile bones. Sarcasm is my only defense."
Indeed! And, a some fine gents noted earlier, healing classes should only heal, period. So DCs must not deal damage at all: instead, they should get a further -60% reduction on self-heals (can't allow healers heal themselves, now can we) and gain a "fatal weakness" debuff whenever they dare to participate in PvP: -40% defense, -40% power, -40% movement, something along these lines.
Same here; that's why I've been going on about this non-stop ever since the nerf was announced (just far too quietly until it went live). I love playing NW and I love the cleric class -- that's why I chose a DC as my first character and have finally leveled her to 60 (i.e. 20 levels above the next nearest character of mine, who should be level 30 quest-wise and has leveled because of professions/invoking while I focus on my DC). The problem is that the current nerfs and (hopefully) bugs for our damage-dealing spells are a step in the wrong direction, and the class that the DC is becoming is not the class that I made an account to play.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
They cared about the TRs after the initial nerfs were very poorly received, so I'm still hopeful.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
It doesn't matter that they don't care, it only matters that we care. And once we won't care anymore, who'll be playing their game? Chinese legions of the gold-sellers and botters?
Nice touch about only chaperone getting the lewtz, after all, you don't expect your cleric pet to get a share.
I play the DC as my first character and i've developed a build that made me enjoy this class, at least until the last update (for those interested here is my build, mainly a buffer/debuffer).
Concerning the matter about the Hammer of Fate, after the patch i'm able to do a little more damage with just Daunting Light than HoF, so i've took out that Daily my skills choice.
Let me put things clear i've took out a Daily because and Encounter power is at the same level if not better, not considering the fact that HoF is single Target while DL is an Area Effect.
So, i slowly build my AP to cast my only serious damaging daily and i get something that's at the same level of an encounter? What's the meaning of sacrificing the (now) hard earned AP for this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
It's a Daily and the last one the DC gets, it cost us serious resources to cast (AP) and we get a crappy power for our ONLY consinstent damage power and you still have the courage to say us that we have only to heal?
Then why there are the kind of specs accessible to the Classes?
If i don't want to play my DC as a moving hospital i should have the right to do so, i'm not saying that i will have to do damage comparable to a DD or Tank class but i believe i should be able to play the class the way i like without being Overpowered or else is totally useless to have 3 kinds of specs.
So if i build a Character who mainly pumps up the Crit stat and i use my Daily to damage an opponent i expect to do some serious damage (serious doesn't mean insta-kill), not something that's equal to an encounter, it's just common sense that for an higher price (both in AP and character development) we could get something useful.
And quit telling us that a DC gotta only do "Healing" or else is useless to have 3 specs.
And if i'm good enough to build a different DC to play that fits my style it's just plain idiocy that i have to be penalized.
They didn't with TR i don't see why we must allow them to do this with the DC.
Now this is something I don't get. Why is it okay for tanks to deal a damage? Let them do their job only, tank stuff to death. 'Cuz they're tanks, lald.