Terramak responded to literally hundreds of bug reports - it looks as if he logged on, scrolled through them, and spent what was probably his personal time responding to each and every little one, trying to find information.
Bugs get missed. That's not my problem with this issue. The problem is that they have completely failed to respond to it.
During the Caturday event, a catastrophic bug of similar proportions was missed, but Cryptic FIXED it. They rolled back the servers, they compensated EVERY SINGLE PLAYER.
What gives? Is the game not important anymore? If they had responded to this in the same manner they responded during Caturday, I'd be a happy customer, DESPITE the bugs. But I'm not, because they ****ed up this time.
Bugs can happen to anyone. I don't walk away from a company because of bugs in their software. I walk away when those bugs are misshandled.
Exactly. All things considered, it's a fairly solid game for how new it is. But now they basically shot a flare into the MMO stratosphere calling in all exploiters and hackers that says "come on in, guys, the water's fine!" And to everyone who didn't violate the TOS they're saying "you mean you didn't take advantage of that?!! sucks to be you. did you think we were serious with that TOS stuff? pfff!! get away with whatever you can, bro. that's how neverwinter rolls!!!"
Yeah, I agree w/ the recent posters. The real issue here is not that this happened. Things like this can and do happen.
My main problem is with the complete and total lack of response. The BS response we have gotten was not only insufficient but incredibly insulting.
Making zero effort to rectify the issue in one thing. Making a huge effort in an attempt to obfuscate the truth and misinform your player base whom you rely on for income is quite another. I loved this game before this morning, I thought today would be tons of fun. Now I'm mostly just bitter and angry with you.
I might get over it and keep playing for a while. I might not. I definitely won't forget what you have done and your attitude towards resolving the issue. This incident is on the same magnitude as the caturday debacle.
I vowed some months/years ago to never play another game operated by the Nexon company. I hope I don't have to make another decision like that when it comes to PWI/Cryptic. Thankfully, there are plenty of fun MMO's out there. The next time I see a cool looking MMO and it is involved with either PW or Cryptic, I'll immediately turn the other direction and run.
I'm not there yet, but, I'm really really close.
So yeah, I'll keep playing your game and using your bandwidth and putting a load on your server. I'm not buying a thing until you at the very least acknowledge the magnitude of the issue and apologize for your initial attempt to stifle information on the topic.
wow you guys *****ing about this make me laugh. its not really a big deal doesn't its not like it really affects much it's just a **** mount get over it. It's not like it attacks or increases your stats go back to wow with the rest of the children.
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darkangel34601Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited August 2013
yes I agree... but people need to realize its not the players fault. Let them enjoy their reward
We totally hear you on that. A rollback was one of the options we considered for the Nightmares, but please keep in mind that Caturday was a major, major issue with a huge influx of ill-gotten Astral Diamonds. If we did not take the servers down and roll back then, it would have collapsed the Astral Diamonds economy. And, Caturday resulted in a day (if I recall correctly) of downtime.
We had to weigh that option carefully versus our other choices. Ultimately, we decided that addressing the issue immediately was the most important. We felt that any player who was lucky enough to unlock a Nightmare mount because of something that was on us this morning should be able to keep it.
This isn't something we decided on a whim. These decisions are very difficult to make and many factors are involved from players to the devs. And, please remember that we make them with only the community and players' best interest in mind. Hopefully, that clarifies some things for you.
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darkangel34601Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited August 2013
They aren't going to punish for something that is their own boo boo.
During a brief period of time after Fury of the Feywild was live, the success rate for getting the elusive Heavy Inferno Nightmare Mount was higher than expected and we were glad to see some lucky players be rewarded. From this point on, we do not plan on performing any rollbacks and we've made the necessary adjustments going forward. If you received a Heavy Inferno Nightmare Mount during this time, enjoy it!
Sincerely,
Pin
So, exploiters or "lucky" players get away with this because it might upset some people?
Check your in-game logs and transaction logs... I've paid for both the Hero of the North AND Knight of the Feywild as well as more than $100 USD in Zen, only to be screwed by the numbers game and not receiving either the Mount or Companion from over 120 Nightmare Lockboxes...
And yet, these exploiters or "lucky" players are being allowed to retain these ill-gotten goods? Granted, not all players who received these due to the glitch were purposefully abusing or possibly didn't even know something was wrong... doesn't change the fact that your system was jacked up and it should be corrected completely.
I am sure others have spent more time and less real-world money on this game only to be slighted... I would imagine their anger is tenfold what mine is currently, and I assure you - I am angry.
Too many whiny babies in this thread. It really doesn't matter that a handful of people got some extra mounts. That's how life works. All I really see is a bunch of babies that are upset that somebody else profited and they didn't.
Neverwinter team: I don't know how you put up with all this abuse on the forums.
problem really is how to know who actually knew of the mucked up drop rate... and who legitimately just tried to open a box without knowing this... atleast they decided to jump on it immediately.
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rathma86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 80
edited August 2013
Oh and so you're aware, i am disgusted that you released a spider mount... i bout a $200 pack to be EXCLUSIVE... i had a drow... i accepted that drow would be avail as a lesser form... but now you have a spider mount avail to the public... thanks for shoving my $200 in your bank and a d**k down MY throat
Well see this is the type of thing that companies such as PWE cannot win for losing. If they let those who got the mount keep them others throw a fit and call them exploiters. But if you won the mount and PWE decided to not allow you to keep it, what would happen? Many would be on here throwing a fit demanding it back stating "Give us back the mount, it wasn't our fault and we shouldn't be punished. So give it back or I'll quit!!!" or something like that.
Well see this is the type of thing that companies such as PWE cannot win for losing. If they let those who got the mount keep them others throw a fit and call them exploiters. But if you won the mount and PWE decided to not allow you to keep it, what would happen? Many would be on here throwing a fit demanding it back stating "Give us back the mount, it wasn't our fault and we shouldn't be punished. So give it back or I'll quit!!!" or something like that.
There are ways this could have been win/win.
They chose to make it win/lose.
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aarladilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
Oh and so you're aware, i am disgusted that you released a spider mount... i bout a $200 pack to be EXCLUSIVE... i had a drow... i accepted that drow would be avail as a lesser form... but now you have a spider mount avail to the public... thanks for shoving my $200 in your bank and a d**k down MY throat
I completely agree with you rathma86...
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rathma86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 80
I know it gets annoying when you think of someone getting something cool from an exploit but if they do a rollback what happens to the few players that might have won the mount purely out of luck? Should they get screwed because others found an exploit? And yes I do know a person could just be lucky because before the patch I was farming boxes for a friend. And in return for farming nightmare boxes my friend gave me 5 keys (amongst other things) and I won a mount on the 3rd box, she on the other hand had to open about 200 boxes to get the mount.
Yes it sucks to see someone rewarded for abusing an exploit but lets be totally honest here. If you were the player opening boxes and realized that you were suddenly getting mounts way more often then you should....would you honestly stop opening boxes and report it? Or would you wait at least wait till you've opened all your boxes before you report it? I think it's safe to say we'd all at least wait till we've opened all our boxes before reporting it and some might even buy some more boxes after reporting it.
Well see this is the type of thing that companies such as PWE cannot win for losing. If they let those who got the mount keep them others throw a fit and call them exploiters. But if you won the mount and PWE decided to not allow you to keep it, what would happen? Many would be on here throwing a fit demanding it back stating "Give us back the mount, it wasn't our fault and we shouldn't be punished. So give it back or I'll quit!!!" or something like that.
Except there'd be a lot fewer people complaining about not getting to keep their ill-gotten mounts than the number of people now complaining that the game has been turned upside down due to the fact that exploiters are being rewarded for cheating instead of being reprimanded for violating the terms of service ...
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rathma86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 80
IKR? it's not for "unfair advantage" anyone can have a 110% mount... not the issue, it's the spider itself.. i purchased you HotN and feywild packs, purchased cause i wanted the exclusivity... (the reason i didnt get the guardian also - everyone has a horse) this is S**T < yes capital letters hey lets release a blue quality unicorn next? another kick in the teeth?
EDIT: Also, can you start releasing the panther / sylph as purchaseable companions please... TYVM
Yeah, I noticed the new spider mount and remembered when one of the designers said they would be unique. A few months later , bam a spider mount thats colored different.
Keeping in mind, I'm fully aware that it's probably too late now, but regarding a rollback, it's not that I wouldn't feel for that one guy who just happened to open a box and won one, it's that it wasn't luck when he did it. It was bugged, so he'd have had to live with that. That makes the most sense, and why they didn't think of that, I have no clue when it's their favorite go-to quote when nerfing. "Not intended."
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rathma86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 80
I know it gets annoying when you think of someone getting something cool from an exploit but if they do a rollback what happens to the few players that might have won the mount purely out of luck? Should they get screwed because others found an exploit? And yes I do know a person could just be lucky because before the patch I was farming boxes for a friend. And in return for farming nightmare boxes my friend gave me 5 keys (amongst other things) and I won a mount on the 3rd box, she on the other hand had to open about 200 boxes to get the mount.
Yes it sucks to see someone rewarded for abusing an exploit but lets be totally honest here. If you were the player opening boxes and realized that you were suddenly getting mounts way more often then you should....would you honestly stop opening boxes and report it? Or would you wait at least wait till you've opened all your boxes before you report it? I think it's safe to say we'd all at least wait till we've opened all our boxes before reporting it and some might even buy some more boxes after reporting it.
most of us seen these mounts coming left right and center mate, we did NOT choose to act upon it, because we did NOT want to exploit the game, i had plenty of gold/AD to buy keys, i chose not to... thinking, this is game breaking, it is going to get rolled back. unfortunately for those who didnt exploit, we get punished the prices of mounts dropped, we were left there having a giggle at PW's expense... how fail they had made it, and THEN ... *smack in the face* "that's what you get for not exploiting" here you go kids, keep your exploited gains... i rest my case :::: "Exploit early, Exploit often." you shall live by this code from here-on-in.
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aarladilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
Well see this is the type of thing that companies such as PWE cannot win for losing. If they let those who got the mount keep them others throw a fit and call them exploiters. But if you won the mount and PWE decided to not allow you to keep it, what would happen? Many would be on here throwing a fit demanding it back stating "Give us back the mount, it wasn't our fault and we shouldn't be punished. So give it back or I'll quit!!!" or something like that.
TBH, you could apply that logic to every scenario where something is gained outside of normal operating parameters... such as the lockboxes (or the Astral Diamonds on Caturday)...
I, for one, would be utterly thankful to a company who "completely" fixes an issue, even if it meant that I was one of the affected players. I would think, "****, that sucks... but this is a company who cares about the integrity of their game."
most of us seen these mounts coming left right and center mate, we did NOT choose to act upon it, because we did NOT want to exploit the game, i had plenty of gold/AD to buy keys, i chose not to... thinking, this is game breaking, it is going to get rolled back. unfortunately for those who didnt exploit, we get punished the prices of mounts dropped, we were left there having a giggle at PW's expense... how fail they had made it, and THEN ... *smack in the face* "that's what you get for not exploiting" here you go kids, keep your exploited gains... i rest my case :::: "Exploit early, Exploit often." you shall live by this code from here-on-in.
+over9000 :P
Campaign - Fortune Favors the Brave
*Currently down for a fabulous all expenses paid make over! Converting your tabletop game is certainly a labor of love!*
"Paranoia is such a childish emotion....your an ADULT for f***s sake, why aren't all your enemies dead by now?!"
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drdoodlemanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited August 2013
They don't need to roll back everything.
Just roll back all nightmare chests that have been open since this morning, since whenever the chances were significantly increased. Give back those chests, give back those keys. Set the chances back to normal and let people try to reopen them with fair/normal chances.
Then give all players 10 free keys and 10 free 'special chests' with slightly better chances than before as one last chance/apology. learn2PR
We totally hear you on that. A rollback was one of the options we considered for the Nightmares, but please keep in mind that Caturday was a major, major issue with a huge influx of ill-gotten Astral Diamonds. If we did not take the servers down and roll back then, it would have collapsed the Astral Diamonds economy. And, Caturday resulted in a day (if I recall correctly) of downtime.
We had to weigh that option carefully versus our other choices. Ultimately, we decided that addressing the issue immediately was the most important. We felt that any player who was lucky enough to unlock a Nightmare mount because of something that was on us this morning should be able to keep it.
This isn't something we decided on a whim. These decisions are very difficult to make and many factors are involved from players to the devs. And, please remember that we make them with only the community and players' best interest in mind. Hopefully, that clarifies some things for you.
I'd put my response here, too, but it's already in that thread and I don't want to double post. the short version is that I believe this decision retroactively wronged every single person who spent money and/or effort over several months on keys for the nightmare lockbox prior to this obvious exploit. It's too late now for the rollback that should have been done 11 hours ago, but despite the work involved, I personally think that they should go in to every exploiter's account and remove everything they got from the lockboxes this morning and should have all their keys returned along with one unopened box per key.
Congratulations on using the definition of an exploit AS A VERB instead of a noun, and also ignoring any differences in definition in the context of games or technology.
Exploiting a bug is just as bad as any third party "exploit." arguing the definition of the word is not going to change that. I was in game while the exploitation was taking place. it was pretty clear and obviously wrong.
And now, PWE/Cryptic is making things worse by calling exploiters "lucky." that's a pretty horrible precedent to set, I think. Luck had nothing to do with that. it was a combination of timing and willingness to exploit a bug for personal gain far beyond the norm.
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rathma86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 80
edited August 2013
the funny thing is, i have 1 account, 10 toons, i do not NEED to spend money anymore, i am too OP for that, i CHOOSE to spend my cash on your packs, never again cryptic, mark my words, you do us all wrong when you do things like this (i include the spider mount decision again)
Comments
Exactly. All things considered, it's a fairly solid game for how new it is. But now they basically shot a flare into the MMO stratosphere calling in all exploiters and hackers that says "come on in, guys, the water's fine!" And to everyone who didn't violate the TOS they're saying "you mean you didn't take advantage of that?!! sucks to be you. did you think we were serious with that TOS stuff? pfff!! get away with whatever you can, bro. that's how neverwinter rolls!!!"
My main problem is with the complete and total lack of response. The BS response we have gotten was not only insufficient but incredibly insulting.
Making zero effort to rectify the issue in one thing. Making a huge effort in an attempt to obfuscate the truth and misinform your player base whom you rely on for income is quite another. I loved this game before this morning, I thought today would be tons of fun. Now I'm mostly just bitter and angry with you.
I might get over it and keep playing for a while. I might not. I definitely won't forget what you have done and your attitude towards resolving the issue. This incident is on the same magnitude as the caturday debacle.
I vowed some months/years ago to never play another game operated by the Nexon company. I hope I don't have to make another decision like that when it comes to PWI/Cryptic. Thankfully, there are plenty of fun MMO's out there. The next time I see a cool looking MMO and it is involved with either PW or Cryptic, I'll immediately turn the other direction and run.
I'm not there yet, but, I'm really really close.
So yeah, I'll keep playing your game and using your bandwidth and putting a load on your server. I'm not buying a thing until you at the very least acknowledge the magnitude of the issue and apologize for your initial attempt to stifle information on the topic.
I think mounts in this game are totally useless with the small zones.
It seems a lot of people here are just whiny spoiled people. I have yet to use one being in the mid 20s.
What this game needs is zones like West Karana in EQ. When that happens THEN you can complain how long it takes to cross it on foot.
So, exploiters or "lucky" players get away with this because it might upset some people?
Check your in-game logs and transaction logs... I've paid for both the Hero of the North AND Knight of the Feywild as well as more than $100 USD in Zen, only to be screwed by the numbers game and not receiving either the Mount or Companion from over 120 Nightmare Lockboxes...
And yet, these exploiters or "lucky" players are being allowed to retain these ill-gotten goods? Granted, not all players who received these due to the glitch were purposefully abusing or possibly didn't even know something was wrong... doesn't change the fact that your system was jacked up and it should be corrected completely.
I am sure others have spent more time and less real-world money on this game only to be slighted... I would imagine their anger is tenfold what mine is currently, and I assure you - I am angry.
Neverwinter team: I don't know how you put up with all this abuse on the forums.
Talk to Rhix, expoit 5 times and get 5k AD.
PELASE!
Or more events.
"Exploiters Time".
Repost it on their forum/twitter pages then
There are ways this could have been win/win.
They chose to make it win/lose.
I completely agree with you rathma86...
i like your thinking +1
Yes it sucks to see someone rewarded for abusing an exploit but lets be totally honest here. If you were the player opening boxes and realized that you were suddenly getting mounts way more often then you should....would you honestly stop opening boxes and report it? Or would you wait at least wait till you've opened all your boxes before you report it? I think it's safe to say we'd all at least wait till we've opened all our boxes before reporting it and some might even buy some more boxes after reporting it.
Except there'd be a lot fewer people complaining about not getting to keep their ill-gotten mounts than the number of people now complaining that the game has been turned upside down due to the fact that exploiters are being rewarded for cheating instead of being reprimanded for violating the terms of service ...
IKR? it's not for "unfair advantage" anyone can have a 110% mount... not the issue, it's the spider itself.. i purchased you HotN and feywild packs, purchased cause i wanted the exclusivity... (the reason i didnt get the guardian also - everyone has a horse) this is S**T < yes capital letters hey lets release a blue quality unicorn next? another kick in the teeth?
EDIT: Also, can you start releasing the panther / sylph as purchaseable companions please... TYVM
most of us seen these mounts coming left right and center mate, we did NOT choose to act upon it, because we did NOT want to exploit the game, i had plenty of gold/AD to buy keys, i chose not to... thinking, this is game breaking, it is going to get rolled back. unfortunately for those who didnt exploit, we get punished the prices of mounts dropped, we were left there having a giggle at PW's expense... how fail they had made it, and THEN ... *smack in the face* "that's what you get for not exploiting" here you go kids, keep your exploited gains... i rest my case :::: "Exploit early, Exploit often." you shall live by this code from here-on-in.
TBH, you could apply that logic to every scenario where something is gained outside of normal operating parameters... such as the lockboxes (or the Astral Diamonds on Caturday)...
I, for one, would be utterly thankful to a company who "completely" fixes an issue, even if it meant that I was one of the affected players. I would think, "****, that sucks... but this is a company who cares about the integrity of their game."
Fix it completely or don't bother...
+over9000 :P
*Currently down for a fabulous all expenses paid make over! Converting your tabletop game is certainly a labor of love!*
Will play, test, and review any and all Foundry quests, NO STRINGS ATTACHED.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?423981-Anybody-need-play-through-s
"Paranoia is such a childish emotion....your an ADULT for f***s sake, why aren't all your enemies dead by now?!"
Just roll back all nightmare chests that have been open since this morning, since whenever the chances were significantly increased. Give back those chests, give back those keys. Set the chances back to normal and let people try to reopen them with fair/normal chances.
Then give all players 10 free keys and 10 free 'special chests' with slightly better chances than before as one last chance/apology. learn2PR
If you want a real look at the state of the game/customer service, check out the forum where they move all the "deleted"/banned "spam"
I'd put my response here, too, but it's already in that thread and I don't want to double post. the short version is that I believe this decision retroactively wronged every single person who spent money and/or effort over several months on keys for the nightmare lockbox prior to this obvious exploit. It's too late now for the rollback that should have been done 11 hours ago, but despite the work involved, I personally think that they should go in to every exploiter's account and remove everything they got from the lockboxes this morning and should have all their keys returned along with one unopened box per key.
that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Exploiting a bug is just as bad as any third party "exploit." arguing the definition of the word is not going to change that. I was in game while the exploitation was taking place. it was pretty clear and obviously wrong.
And now, PWE/Cryptic is making things worse by calling exploiters "lucky." that's a pretty horrible precedent to set, I think. Luck had nothing to do with that. it was a combination of timing and willingness to exploit a bug for personal gain far beyond the norm.