The shield nerf only hurts all the other "non-essential" classes as you will be required to have a minimum of 2+ cw for every dungeon to make the pushes. There is no way groups are now going to take a gf or gwf simply do to the fact they their former spot as the fifth will now be taken by yet another cw. I can only imagine how hard it will be for the gwf out there to find a spot after his one...
Also, say goodbye to any modicum of build diversity we had left too. It was bad enough that we had two ''must have'' encounters. Now that number is up to 3 or maybe even all 4.
I'm getting tired of say it but.... nerf singularity, for the love of god! No more worries about ap gain. No more dungeon cheesing. Increased build diversity. Increased class diversity. All from one daily being nerf! But alas, the dev team would rather tiptoe around everything but.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
I'm getting tired of say it but.... nerf singularity, for the love of god! No more worries about ap gain. No more dungeon cheesing. Increased build diversity. Increased class diversity. All from one daily being nerf! But alas, the dev team would rather tiptoe around everything but.
There already is alot of diversity available. Either try your powers out yourself, or at least read (and understand the concept) what other's have been written here on the forum.
GF's just had their Stalwart's set nerfed super hard. There's even less of a reason to take them in place of a 2nd or 3rd CW now since none of their tanking abilities have been improved to compensate for the loss of control on CWs. They do not gain a dps set in Feywild better than current T2s.
Also, it would not even matter if every single dungeon in Feywild has the majority of trash as CC-immune because CN still drops BiS items for most classes and most of the new item sets are just poor or side-grades and possibly even have RNG introduced as per:
Epic dungeons now offer a choice of rewards. When the dungeon event is running and a player would get an item from an item set, the player is now presented with a choice of items of that slot, so he or she can select the desired stat allocation.
There already is alot of diversity available. Either try your powers out yourself, or at least read (and understand the concept) what other's have been written here on the forum.
I'm well aware of the builds. You have EF ap gain build and chill/control based build, both of which use steal time and shield. If there are any other viable builds, I have yet to see it in-game or on the forums. Also, with the shield ap nerf, you can kiss the chill build goodbye for the most part. Perhaps as a third cw it might be viable.
I see a very good reason to take a GF or a GWF now. Since CWs can't maintain AS up all the time, unless they sacrifice their tab slot for AP, you need someone to take care of adds when you aren't controlling them. Not a big deal. But yeah, a nerf of arcane singularity will happen anyway. It's way too good to last.
I see a very good reason to take a GF or a GWF now. Since CWs can't maintain AS up all the time, unless they sacrifice their tab slot for AP, you need someone to take care of adds when you aren't controlling them. Not a big deal. But yeah, a nerf of arcane singularity will happen anyway. It's way too good to last.
And nope again. 3 frost wizards will control mobs 99% of time via CoI + terrain.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Cookie cutter Thaum-Chilling-Cloud build all the way! Absolutely no reason to build anything else in Feywild, not even pvp. I guess Copticone's build should finally be stickied...
GF's just had their Stalwart's set nerfed super hard. There's even less of a reason to take them in place of a 2nd or 3rd CW now since none of their tanking abilities have been improved to compensate for the loss of control on CWs. They do not gain a dps set in Feywild better than current T2s.
Also, it would not even matter if every single dungeon in Feywild has the majority of trash as CC-immune because CN still drops BiS items for most classes and most of the new item sets are just poor or side-grades and possibly even have RNG introduced as per:
Timeless isn't the farcry from stalwart that some people on the forums have stated IMO. I've tested both sets on multiple runs with the same group and found there to a about a 5% to 8% damage differential between the two. It hurts a little to lose that much damage output, but in juxtaposition to the other class nerfs, it isn't that bad.
Timeless isn't the farcry from stalwart that some people on the forums have stated IMO. I've tested both sets on multiple runs with the same group and found there to a about a 5% to 8% damage differential between the two. It hurts a little to lose that much damage output, but in juxtaposition to the other class nerfs, it isn't that bad.
I notice at least a 12.5% difference when I run Timeless compared to Stalwarts, I use the same jewelry and companion too.
Also, do not forget that there is currently an unintended bug with the Timeless set that gives the 4pc bonus more frequently than it should. This will be removed by Feywild.
And nope again. 3 frost wizards will control mobs 99% of time via CoI + terrain.
you can also take 3 rogues to rush through a dungeon. Pretty fast, works very well. You can also take 2 (competent, they are rare) GWFs, a rogue, a DC, a CW you will rush through a dungeon. You can also take 3 CWs, yes, it works but it's not optimal to me. The only dungeons i like doing with a pair of CWs is CN, and sometimes spellplague because i'm lazy, but parties with more than 2 CWs have never been optimal and they will never be the best choice you can make. Sure, it works. But they will be interfering with one another.
I myself enjoy being the only CW in the party, because no one else will mess around with pushes. I have almost stopped using singularity to push in spellplague, it takes too long most of the times, and a good shield pulse while the GF uses bull's charge + frontline surge to push the remaining mobs is a lot faster. I don't know. I can freeze mobs on my own without any additional chill support too.
A good team will also position itself to make your control job easier. Currently, we're forced to spam sing because people don't care about where mobs are, where they are running to, where the edge is if there is one, etc. Well, now, they will have to pay attention to that. Well, the only issue isn't getting more CWs, it's teaching people WHERE they should stand, fight mobs, bosses, and so on. It's IMO better than the multiple CWs parties. It's like saying "we want more control because we want people to keep scattering mobs all across rooms".
3 wizard gives 9 stacks of HV, which are a huge DPS buff along with x3 CoI = +45% damage. Constantly refreshing of chill stacks gives another +27% damage (18 from ChP and 9 from blighting power). The only class, that can bring near equal debuffing is GWF, but as you say, they are quite rare.
I think, 3 CW, GWF and Cleric is the best setup in incoming patch.
I notice at least a 12.5% difference when I run Timeless compared to Stalwarts, I use the same jewelry and companion too.
Also, do not forget that there is currently an unintended bug with the Timeless set that gives the 4pc bonus more frequently than it should. This will be removed by Feywild.
I suppose it's a moot point considering now that there will be even more of a demand for cw's during runs. With all melee classes' damage output being nerfed, there is even less of a reason to have them around. If a team of cw can keep mobs on lockdown and do similar/better damage, why bother otherwise.
Even the tr will be left out in the rain. With their single target damage nerfed via bleed and Lurker's, their purpose as "the boss killer'' is once again diminished. Also, now that relogging doesn't take you to the latest campfire, no more tr cheese runs. Hence, even less reason to let them tag along, if not the only reason.
I'm actually curious as to if the dev team is trying to further the dichotomy between the classes, or if they're just that stupid.
I'm well aware of the builds. You have EF ap gain build and chill/control based build, both of which use steal time and shield. If there are any other viable builds, I have yet to see it in-game or on the forums. Also, with the shield ap nerf, you can kiss the chill build goodbye for the most part. Perhaps as a third cw it might be viable.
Quite the opposite. I am actually glad about every change that is made, including shield. I don't agree that it would make it that you need a 3rd CW in CN. I made a couple of tweaks with my spec. Putting 5/5 in Critical Power and using Storm Pillar in the mix generates a ton of AP, and I use Repel on tab.
I do not like these changes since I use the Arcane/Shield bump combo but I guess I understand why they wanted to do it, its too overpowered compared to any other CW build atm.
Then again, most of the other classes are also getting nerfed to the ground. It will be interesting to see if Arcane Singularity/Shield Bump is still the most logical way to go after this nerf or if any other build will arise
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Regarding EotS, yes it scales worse the more crit you get (though the more power/arpen you get helps make up for it) - but if they don't adjust the internal cooldown it will become completely useless.
Regarding EotS, yes it scales worse the more crit you get (though the more power/arpen you get helps make up for it) - but if they don't adjust the internal cooldown it will become completely useless.
They did adjust the internal cooldown. I just haven't done a prolonged and controlled test to determine by how much.
It's possible that the EotS change is actually a buff, at least in a PvE context (that is, a buff to the over-time contribution of EotS).
I'm glad, that I don't use EotS comletely Shield nerf is strange.
Here's why I think they did it:
Tymora Box farming. Devs knew they couldn't control foundry quests to stop farming events that drop those types of boxes. Instead they nerfed the means to do it (solo anyway).
Tymora Box farming. Devs knew they couldn't control foundry quests to stop farming events that drop those types of boxes. Instead they nerfed the means to do it (solo anyway).
Well the Tymora Box farming was not tied to the ability of a CW to spam Sing+Shield. I have tested this extensively, and there was some type of cap on how many boxes you can get per X amount of time. I was able to get the same average of Boxes doing single target Foundries in comparison to foundries like the spider pit.
That said, and outside of the Tymora boxes, I agree that CWs Sing+Shield were placed in the spot light as an overpowered mechanic for farming, which may have led to some of these changes. In any case, I think it is a good change. No class should be so dependent on 1 or 2 abilities. But while some of these changes are warranted, the Devs need to also pay attention to the many Powers, of every class, that are anywhere from underpowered to completely useless.
You don't need a very prolonged test - just check the combat log for time between procs.
Right. I only had a few minutes this morning, so I didn't even log it. I just did it by eye. I figure, at worst, a proc every ten seconds or so. It's clear that the internal cooldown is no longer 30 seconds.
I do need a longer test to determine what the new internal cooldown is, exactly, though. There may not even be one, anymore.
Right. I only had a few minutes this morning, so I didn't even log it. I just did it by eye. I figure, at worst, a proc every ten seconds or so. It's clear that the internal cooldown is no longer 30 seconds.
I do need a longer test to determine what the new internal cooldown is, exactly, though. There may not even be one, anymore.
Well that's not bad then, hopefully it'll stay like that and keep it somewhat viable.
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dennariiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2013
Dear Cryptic,
Fury of the Feywild is going to be released in less than a week. Now would be a great time to change your minds about the HORRIBLE, SOUL-CRUSHING, GAME-RUINING changes you are making to every class! I'll admit, I wasn't happy being just an AS-machine. Maybe AS is the thing that really needed to be changed, not everything else. I love my control wizard. I love playing my control wizard. If my control wizard can no longer control anything, then what the hell good am I? It wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't for that fact that EVERY dungeon is designed on the idea, "The more adds the better, you can never have too many adds." I do not want to become just a DPS class, I love the control aspect of my character.
It seems that with this new module, you will be changing so many of the things that make each class special, unique, fun, and worth playing. Every class complains that every other class needs to be nerfed, that's how it always is. But that doesn't mean that you have to listen.
Unfortunately, you decided to use this new module to screw things up, rather than add what the game really needs: NEW CLASSES and NEW PARAGON PATHS. We need variety in how we can play our characters, as well as choices in what roles our characters can play. Instead of adding some desperately needed variety, or fixing some annoying problems (like the Tiefling/Tempest Magic issue. I mean come on already, it's ridiculous that hasn't been corrected yet!), you're destroying the classes and little variety that already exists. One of the biggest complaints I hear about this game is the lack of classes. You promised us all new classes with this module, took our money for the Feywild pack, and then said, "Oops, no new classes until the end of the year!"
So, I am asking from the bottom of my heart, please rethink these terrible changes. Before it's too late, please reconsider what you are about to do.
Indeed, there goes the "Control" in Control Wizard in Feywild!
I think that is very alarmist to say. We will gain a little less AP with shield and that is all... Everything else is a buff or a fix. Well, aside from EoTS...
Comments
Also, say goodbye to any modicum of build diversity we had left too. It was bad enough that we had two ''must have'' encounters. Now that number is up to 3 or maybe even all 4.
I'm getting tired of say it but.... nerf singularity, for the love of god! No more worries about ap gain. No more dungeon cheesing. Increased build diversity. Increased class diversity. All from one daily being nerf! But alas, the dev team would rather tiptoe around everything but.
Also, it would not even matter if every single dungeon in Feywild has the majority of trash as CC-immune because CN still drops BiS items for most classes and most of the new item sets are just poor or side-grades and possibly even have RNG introduced as per:
Epic dungeons now offer a choice of rewards. When the dungeon event is running and a player would get an item from an item set, the player is now presented with a choice of items of that slot, so he or she can select the desired stat allocation.
I'm well aware of the builds. You have EF ap gain build and chill/control based build, both of which use steal time and shield. If there are any other viable builds, I have yet to see it in-game or on the forums. Also, with the shield ap nerf, you can kiss the chill build goodbye for the most part. Perhaps as a third cw it might be viable.
Cookie cutter Thaum-Chilling-Cloud build all the way! Absolutely no reason to build anything else in Feywild, not even pvp. I guess Copticone's build should finally be stickied...
Timeless isn't the farcry from stalwart that some people on the forums have stated IMO. I've tested both sets on multiple runs with the same group and found there to a about a 5% to 8% damage differential between the two. It hurts a little to lose that much damage output, but in juxtaposition to the other class nerfs, it isn't that bad.
I notice at least a 12.5% difference when I run Timeless compared to Stalwarts, I use the same jewelry and companion too.
Also, do not forget that there is currently an unintended bug with the Timeless set that gives the 4pc bonus more frequently than it should. This will be removed by Feywild.
you can also take 3 rogues to rush through a dungeon. Pretty fast, works very well. You can also take 2 (competent, they are rare) GWFs, a rogue, a DC, a CW you will rush through a dungeon. You can also take 3 CWs, yes, it works but it's not optimal to me. The only dungeons i like doing with a pair of CWs is CN, and sometimes spellplague because i'm lazy, but parties with more than 2 CWs have never been optimal and they will never be the best choice you can make. Sure, it works. But they will be interfering with one another.
I myself enjoy being the only CW in the party, because no one else will mess around with pushes. I have almost stopped using singularity to push in spellplague, it takes too long most of the times, and a good shield pulse while the GF uses bull's charge + frontline surge to push the remaining mobs is a lot faster. I don't know. I can freeze mobs on my own without any additional chill support too.
A good team will also position itself to make your control job easier. Currently, we're forced to spam sing because people don't care about where mobs are, where they are running to, where the edge is if there is one, etc. Well, now, they will have to pay attention to that. Well, the only issue isn't getting more CWs, it's teaching people WHERE they should stand, fight mobs, bosses, and so on. It's IMO better than the multiple CWs parties. It's like saying "we want more control because we want people to keep scattering mobs all across rooms".
I think, 3 CW, GWF and Cleric is the best setup in incoming patch.
I suppose it's a moot point considering now that there will be even more of a demand for cw's during runs. With all melee classes' damage output being nerfed, there is even less of a reason to have them around. If a team of cw can keep mobs on lockdown and do similar/better damage, why bother otherwise.
Even the tr will be left out in the rain. With their single target damage nerfed via bleed and Lurker's, their purpose as "the boss killer'' is once again diminished. Also, now that relogging doesn't take you to the latest campfire, no more tr cheese runs. Hence, even less reason to let them tag along, if not the only reason.
I'm actually curious as to if the dev team is trying to further the dichotomy between the classes, or if they're just that stupid.
Quite the opposite. I am actually glad about every change that is made, including shield. I don't agree that it would make it that you need a 3rd CW in CN. I made a couple of tweaks with my spec. Putting 5/5 in Critical Power and using Storm Pillar in the mix generates a ton of AP, and I use Repel on tab.
Then again, most of the other classes are also getting nerfed to the ground. It will be interesting to see if Arcane Singularity/Shield Bump is still the most logical way to go after this nerf or if any other build will arise
They did adjust the internal cooldown. I just haven't done a prolonged and controlled test to determine by how much.
It's possible that the EotS change is actually a buff, at least in a PvE context (that is, a buff to the over-time contribution of EotS).
Here's why I think they did it:
Tymora Box farming. Devs knew they couldn't control foundry quests to stop farming events that drop those types of boxes. Instead they nerfed the means to do it (solo anyway).
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Well the Tymora Box farming was not tied to the ability of a CW to spam Sing+Shield. I have tested this extensively, and there was some type of cap on how many boxes you can get per X amount of time. I was able to get the same average of Boxes doing single target Foundries in comparison to foundries like the spider pit.
That said, and outside of the Tymora boxes, I agree that CWs Sing+Shield were placed in the spot light as an overpowered mechanic for farming, which may have led to some of these changes. In any case, I think it is a good change. No class should be so dependent on 1 or 2 abilities. But while some of these changes are warranted, the Devs need to also pay attention to the many Powers, of every class, that are anywhere from underpowered to completely useless.
You don't need a very prolonged test - just check the combat log for time between procs.
This patch does seem to be a perfect promotion for Copticone's build in PvE.
As far as PvP - the other classes (that matter) got nerfed considerably worse than we did. I think our match-ups improve.
Right. I only had a few minutes this morning, so I didn't even log it. I just did it by eye. I figure, at worst, a proc every ten seconds or so. It's clear that the internal cooldown is no longer 30 seconds.
I do need a longer test to determine what the new internal cooldown is, exactly, though. There may not even be one, anymore.
Well that's not bad then, hopefully it'll stay like that and keep it somewhat viable.
Fury of the Feywild is going to be released in less than a week. Now would be a great time to change your minds about the HORRIBLE, SOUL-CRUSHING, GAME-RUINING changes you are making to every class! I'll admit, I wasn't happy being just an AS-machine. Maybe AS is the thing that really needed to be changed, not everything else. I love my control wizard. I love playing my control wizard. If my control wizard can no longer control anything, then what the hell good am I? It wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't for that fact that EVERY dungeon is designed on the idea, "The more adds the better, you can never have too many adds." I do not want to become just a DPS class, I love the control aspect of my character.
It seems that with this new module, you will be changing so many of the things that make each class special, unique, fun, and worth playing. Every class complains that every other class needs to be nerfed, that's how it always is. But that doesn't mean that you have to listen.
Unfortunately, you decided to use this new module to screw things up, rather than add what the game really needs: NEW CLASSES and NEW PARAGON PATHS. We need variety in how we can play our characters, as well as choices in what roles our characters can play. Instead of adding some desperately needed variety, or fixing some annoying problems (like the Tiefling/Tempest Magic issue. I mean come on already, it's ridiculous that hasn't been corrected yet!), you're destroying the classes and little variety that already exists. One of the biggest complaints I hear about this game is the lack of classes. You promised us all new classes with this module, took our money for the Feywild pack, and then said, "Oops, no new classes until the end of the year!"
So, I am asking from the bottom of my heart, please rethink these terrible changes. Before it's too late, please reconsider what you are about to do.
Thanks for listening.
Sincerely,
a heart-broken "control" wizard
It's still viable. Only gains a bit less AP from shield.
Cop build also uses shield. We all use it lol it's just a little less AP gain from one ability. Everything else is a buff imo.
I think that is very alarmist to say. We will gain a little less AP with shield and that is all... Everything else is a buff or a fix. Well, aside from EoTS...