One possible alternative is to leave DD, but use it to increase the reward, not have it at all. In other words, i think the problem may be going from no chest without DD to very good chest with it. It discourages players from entering without DD active. How about good chest always, very good with DD. To me DD should be a bonus to normal rewards, not the key to any reward at all.
um.... DD is a bonus to normal rewards.... what other game gives you 100% chance to get an epic at the end of the 5man dungeon? Every other MMo ive played you get your "Marks, tokens,Seals" what have you from each boss kill then at the end when you kill the last boss you get a chance to roll on a piece of random epic loot that drops. This is the current system in the game. You do dungeon farm for loot. DD is a bonus for 100% chance to get an epic for your time. Non DD times are just like every other mmo's 5man dungeon system.
I know most people don't want to hear it but an active give helps a lot, you can generally always find a group for DD and at least some help during off times. Also when you do a run with some good players add the good ones to your friends list. I am in a guild but I don't even run with them much anymore because my friends list is huge and I get 10 messages asking me to run CN whenever I log on, and I know all of them are good players.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I say keep DD, but fix the screwy Que system. I mean really, it's like forest gump said, a box of chocolets. You never know what your getting. And I agree with the OP, Q times stink, if DD is a random X over hours event, then FIX the stupid que system. It should read by class and send whats needed... or allow the leader to see a list of those in Q and add them to his prty... it should also show GS for reference....not a hugh breaker, but they need to address this better then they have.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
0
brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
um.... DD is a bonus to normal rewards.... what other game gives you 100% chance to get an epic at the end of the 5man dungeon? Every other MMo ive played you get your "Marks, tokens,Seals" what have you from each boss kill then at the end when you kill the last boss you get a chance to roll on a piece of random epic loot that drops. This is the current system in the game. You do dungeon farm for loot. DD is a bonus for 100% chance to get an epic for your time. Non DD times are just like every other mmo's 5man dungeon system.
The thing is that people do not like to do dungeons without a guaranteed reward. So, tokens are generally preferred to the non-DD dungeon runs and their rewards.
I am not a dungeon runner, but I think this is the common mindset.
Another interesting note that will get people worked up:
If NW has 2 million players, that would make it the 2nd or 3rd largest western MMO currently.
When SWTOR announced they had 2 million players a few months ago, they also claimed that they were the 2nd largest western MMO.
I remember this claim from SWTOR and at the time it was not taken 100% seriously, however thats a different story, up until last November SWTOR was a subscribe only game so at the time, they did have actual factual numbers to base a claim on, So SWTOR can openly claim thier total 'playerbase' up to the date it went free to play and NO one can deny it.
Since it as now gone free to play we are back to the scenario we have here and any claims to size of playerbase are very very loose and most are made purely for media hype
Although even with Subscribe only games, many people do also have mutliple accounts, and also the 100's if not 1000's of currency sellers and robot farmers, which each have have an account which is not actualy operated by a 'player'.
Most of the time there are 'players' within most online MMO's that are not controlled by players but by a programs. In fact it is widely known this game is 'full' of 'bots' in every aspect of the game, that is just common knowlage within the playerbase. Then we have Multiboxing involved in MMO's and list could keep on going and going, all the time this is PROVING a FACT that 1 account does not equal 1 player.
I have also noticed PWE quote and post reviews etc from many sources, Now 'some' of these have actually played the game, made an account etc, but only actually played for a few hours, if that for some of them, they have since published their review and have never re-logged into the game and most have no intentions to ever do so. the account was made purely for a quick look for thier review. So this brings the question, are they classed as players ? are they classed as being part of the playerbase ?
0
amadalusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Non DD times are just like every other mmo's 5man dungeon system.
Absolutely not. There is generally loot at the end of most MMOs 5-man dungeons, EXCEPT NW when in non-DD times the chest is dark. Doing an entire NW dungeon outside DD and getting no loot at the end is unusual and disabling.
Two million people with accounts or two million active accounts? Cause I see bored peopled quitting almost every day.
Because that's what you want to see. I see, for every one person quitting, what must be another five joining. Every single day I log in the game is getting more and more populated.
I don't disagree that there will be a drop-off. Right now however it is way too soon. If you want to waggle fingers (and tongues), wait another two months and then start with your inevitable "I told you so".
Absolutely not. There is generally loot at the end of most MMOs 5-man dungeons, EXCEPT NW when in non-DD times the chest is dark. Doing an entire NW dungeon outside DD and getting no loot at the end is unusual and disabling.
You still get the delve loot. It's still there - I know - I've sold a ton of it. You're just missing out on the bonus loot. This system is no different from Raid mechanics, except you dont have a "lock out" of the raid for the "cooldown" period, you just don't get the bonus goodies.
Most of the complaints I have seen about this game is about how it ISN'T like other MMOs. Your gameplay is different. Your heals are different. Your dungeons require you to approach them differently than any other MMO. And you whine incessantly about this. If you knew ANYTHING about Cryptic and its long history, you would know that Jack Emmert is always looking for ways to break "traditions." Learn your game, learn your developer, and have fun.
(Funny note - if you got everything like you want it to be WoW you'd be whining incessantly about how this is just a WoW Clone. Give the baby the bottle and it wants the mammary gland. Give the baby the mammary gland and it wants the bottle.)
This whole thread as become totaly pointless, This argument will continue to pass back and forth forever, unless actual official figures are officialy released, with there source to comfirm them once and for all.
which i see very very unlikely to happen..
An actual figure to comfirm the number of 'active' or claimed 'unique' players in a free to play game and even a subscribed game is impossible to calculate, FACT... no if's or buts.... FACT...
The only figure that can be stated as FACT is the number of 'unique' accounts that have been created, but as for 'unique' players that means absolutly nothing, which again is FACT
0
amarystaeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
This is really great, and I will leave the semantics out of it, but are we going to see any bug fixes here any time soon? How about some real new content besides additions to the Zen market? I get you guys need to make your cut, and I don't mind it, but a lot of us have been playing since beta-beta, and we are still dealing with the same hang-ups since then, the same bugs, the same PVP maps, the same really disappointing GG, etc. and all we keep seeing is new <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for the Zen market, prices going up for enchantments because there is nothing else out there, and new content that isn't even out yet with the expectation that we drop 60 bucks on it before we even get a real preview. For a moon elf and a unicorn?
Now, I am not flaming, I'm not snappin out, I am just honestly curious. Other Cryptic games aren't like this at all. Are we going to see any follow through of these promises we have seen? Like combined shards, new paragons, new races, bug fixes, I dunno maybe make the AH actually usable without pulling my hair out, things that should've been handled before the 38 updated Zen market patches? We have a PvP tournament going on on Mindflayer, and we are having trouble keeping it together with only 13 teams, as people are just leaving game left and right. Accounts are selling like hotcakes, one day you have a top level PvPer friend, the next someone that doesn't know you or speak English on the same account. Everyone seems to be just getting tired of the nickle and dime game and the same old content and bugs. People can't even get a response to their legitimate help requests. I realize you are inendated with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> questions like, where is the mailbox, but people like me haven't been able to see scores since beta-beta, as they just fly off the screen. Legitimate problems that we just can't get help with.
I am asking on behalf of my guild and many, many other players, please, take some time in development to fix some bugs, release some content, or you are going to have to start counting all those spam-blocked gold farmers as current accounts to keep that 2 million mark, as I said before, its just hard enough to keep a small PVP tourney together.
I remember this claim from SWTOR and at the time it was not taken 100% seriously, however thats a different story, up until last November SWTOR was a subscribe only game so at the time, they did have actual factual numbers to base a claim on, So SWTOR can openly claim thier total 'playerbase' up to the date it went free to play and NO one can deny it.
According to their investor call, they had less then 500,000 players before the F2P launch. No one is denying that.
After the F2P launch, they claimed they were up to 2 million players.
0
krholbrookMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited August 2013
So much negativity in a congratulatory thread.
Let me be one of the few people that have said congratulations. I may not see a ton of people on all the time on Mindflayer, but there's still quite a decent amount.
a) The video was sent to Polygon by PWE....that makes it official.
b) This thread was started by Cryptic.....that makes it official. And according to the title, there's OVER 2 million players.
Pro tip: If your going to judge something by misspelled words, then you should probably use a spell checker yourself first.
OK we all know the title says 2 million players and again i ask how do they come to this figure, i am very interested in what must be a revolutionary new system for working out the number of individual players from populations of online multinational MMO's. I know some subscribed MMO giants have in the past based some figures on IP addresses but even that was along way off being anywere near accurate.
Many many posts have said exactly the same thing and that this has to be 2 million 'unique' accounts created but we keep getting told this is players and was claimed as 'unique' players.
So to quash all scepticism many would like to know how they can claim to know pretty accurately the difference between unique accounts and unique players.
Just because the title of a book, or a heading in a newspaper says one thing does not mean its is true, and when media is concerned 9 times out of 10 it actually is not true, but a 'twist' on the truth, which is what people are saying in this case..
OK we all know the title says 2 million players and again i ask how do they come to this figure, i am very interested in what must be a revolutionary new system for working out the number of individual players from populations of online multinational MMO's. I know some subscribed MMO giants have in the past based some figures on IP addresses but even that was along way off being anywere near accurate.
Many many posts have said exactly the same thing and that this has to be 2 million 'unique' accounts created but we keep getting told this is players and was claimed as 'unique' players.
So to quash all scepticism many would like to know how they can claim to know pretty accurately the difference between unique accounts and unique players.
Just because the title of a book, or a heading in a newspaper says one thing does not mean its is true, and when media is concerned 9 times out of 10 it actually is not true, but a 'twist' on the truth, which is what people are saying in this case..
I don't see how it could be anything else but accounts created, "unique" is an ambiguous term.
They want to sound like they have 2 mil people playing the game which is rubbish, anyone knows that's not correct by a long shot. They have a few thousand playing at any given time at best, and that number will continue to fall. This game is really a bubble, and one that's going to burst in a few months. For all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players have to deal with, there just isn't enough that's uniquely exciting and special over the ton's of other MMO's to keep people interested for very long.
Ill give it 6 months at best, before the mass exit ensues.
Exactly, there's not 2 million players actually PLAYING this game. There's more like 2 to 5 character logins from each player who DOES play this game which amounts to PWE manipulating statistics into something they're not.
There's no way in Hades this game has two million individual players. More like a few thousand.
it might have had 2 million in starting months. i don't think they have that many players now. more like 2 million accounts and from those accounts, as some of previous players wrote, most are multiple one-player accounts, bots, waiting-for-more-content accounts. i still believe this game is fun and will play it again eventually.
all who play can actualy calculate a number.
based on 2 million accounts, there`s 1 out of 10 accounts a bot.
but , not 1/10 of 2 million.
there`s inactive accounts, a lot.
people who regular added others to friends list can actualy confirm there`s a lot of players who`ve tried the game,
but didn`t come back.
it happend already the first month.
i played a lot, 18 hours a day. with changing playtimes.
about 3 or 4 of the 20 in my list actualy logged on sometimes.
it`s safe to say 3/5 of the accounts created the first month don`t play anymore.
if you have been in some small guilds, you noticed there was almost never someone online,
some logged in once a week. the rest never.
can go on like this, but i know the number of players lays way closer to 200k, which is even generous
and from that number you take the 1/10 bots.
it`s just PR posts like this.
based on psycholigic rules most follow, "if so much others play it, it has to be good"
anyone who played this for a while knows it has potential, but somehow pwe/cryptic can`t live up to the tech that`s needed.
for arenapoint systems for example, and competition, and lasting end content.
i`m not going to give anymore hints. i realy need a paycheck beyond this point.
but ok, who wants to work for...
forgot to mention people have double accounts also ofcourse.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2013
Folks, please respect other's opinions. Thanks! (A few posts have been moved to the Lower Depths's Unproductive Pit.)
Well if you calculate the rate of inflation, minus the coefficient, times the vertices. Itll give you 1. Yes ladies and gentleman. There is only 1 player. And it is you.
Two million accounts registered, I would believe. No way at all are there that many active players, a couple thousand per server for all three servers perhaps.
Well if you calculate the rate of inflation, minus the coefficient, times the vertices. Itll give you 1. Yes ladies and gentleman. There is only 1 player. And it is you.
That is to much overestimation. Yes there are likely some bots. What I don't understand what is the point with many accounts? You can not transfer AD/ZEN to another account to my knowledge.
Ok if you want to avoid getting extra character slots for 500 ZEN, but still sounds stupid to me. I paid 500 ZEN with earned AD for 2 extra character slots. All my characters can earn to same account and FFS do not people have real life for me 3 characters feel like a maximum what I want to have and maybe a 4th if I decide to quit playing totally with one other character.
Yes there are some bots, but people making many accounts make no sense to me. Ah ok they can log in with 2 computers and give items however what a trouble not worth it in my mind. I use one account and that is good for me and I do not need any cheating with bots.
No, its sad truth. I don't know how its on other servers, i'm playing on mindflayer. If u open character finder and look in some dungeon like "night raid", u will find there 100+ rogue bots.. AH is flooded with 99 enchant stacks, non stop spam in PE from goldsellers and sometime mails. They even made bot only guilds, its totally out of control.
Comments
um.... DD is a bonus to normal rewards.... what other game gives you 100% chance to get an epic at the end of the 5man dungeon? Every other MMo ive played you get your "Marks, tokens,Seals" what have you from each boss kill then at the end when you kill the last boss you get a chance to roll on a piece of random epic loot that drops. This is the current system in the game. You do dungeon farm for loot. DD is a bonus for 100% chance to get an epic for your time. Non DD times are just like every other mmo's 5man dungeon system.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
The thing is that people do not like to do dungeons without a guaranteed reward. So, tokens are generally preferred to the non-DD dungeon runs and their rewards.
I am not a dungeon runner, but I think this is the common mindset.
I remember this claim from SWTOR and at the time it was not taken 100% seriously, however thats a different story, up until last November SWTOR was a subscribe only game so at the time, they did have actual factual numbers to base a claim on, So SWTOR can openly claim thier total 'playerbase' up to the date it went free to play and NO one can deny it.
Since it as now gone free to play we are back to the scenario we have here and any claims to size of playerbase are very very loose and most are made purely for media hype
Although even with Subscribe only games, many people do also have mutliple accounts, and also the 100's if not 1000's of currency sellers and robot farmers, which each have have an account which is not actualy operated by a 'player'.
Most of the time there are 'players' within most online MMO's that are not controlled by players but by a programs. In fact it is widely known this game is 'full' of 'bots' in every aspect of the game, that is just common knowlage within the playerbase. Then we have Multiboxing involved in MMO's and list could keep on going and going, all the time this is PROVING a FACT that 1 account does not equal 1 player.
I have also noticed PWE quote and post reviews etc from many sources, Now 'some' of these have actually played the game, made an account etc, but only actually played for a few hours, if that for some of them, they have since published their review and have never re-logged into the game and most have no intentions to ever do so. the account was made purely for a quick look for thier review. So this brings the question, are they classed as players ? are they classed as being part of the playerbase ?
Correct. But...
Absolutely not. There is generally loot at the end of most MMOs 5-man dungeons, EXCEPT NW when in non-DD times the chest is dark. Doing an entire NW dungeon outside DD and getting no loot at the end is unusual and disabling.
Fidelis ad Mortem
Loyal to Death
http://loyaltodeath.enjin.com
I don't disagree that there will be a drop-off. Right now however it is way too soon. If you want to waggle fingers (and tongues), wait another two months and then start with your inevitable "I told you so".
You still get the delve loot. It's still there - I know - I've sold a ton of it. You're just missing out on the bonus loot. This system is no different from Raid mechanics, except you dont have a "lock out" of the raid for the "cooldown" period, you just don't get the bonus goodies.
Most of the complaints I have seen about this game is about how it ISN'T like other MMOs. Your gameplay is different. Your heals are different. Your dungeons require you to approach them differently than any other MMO. And you whine incessantly about this. If you knew ANYTHING about Cryptic and its long history, you would know that Jack Emmert is always looking for ways to break "traditions." Learn your game, learn your developer, and have fun.
(Funny note - if you got everything like you want it to be WoW you'd be whining incessantly about how this is just a WoW Clone. Give the baby the bottle and it wants the mammary gland. Give the baby the mammary gland and it wants the bottle.)
which i see very very unlikely to happen..
An actual figure to comfirm the number of 'active' or claimed 'unique' players in a free to play game and even a subscribed game is impossible to calculate, FACT... no if's or buts.... FACT...
The only figure that can be stated as FACT is the number of 'unique' accounts that have been created, but as for 'unique' players that means absolutly nothing, which again is FACT
This is really great, and I will leave the semantics out of it, but are we going to see any bug fixes here any time soon? How about some real new content besides additions to the Zen market? I get you guys need to make your cut, and I don't mind it, but a lot of us have been playing since beta-beta, and we are still dealing with the same hang-ups since then, the same bugs, the same PVP maps, the same really disappointing GG, etc. and all we keep seeing is new <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for the Zen market, prices going up for enchantments because there is nothing else out there, and new content that isn't even out yet with the expectation that we drop 60 bucks on it before we even get a real preview. For a moon elf and a unicorn?
Now, I am not flaming, I'm not snappin out, I am just honestly curious. Other Cryptic games aren't like this at all. Are we going to see any follow through of these promises we have seen? Like combined shards, new paragons, new races, bug fixes, I dunno maybe make the AH actually usable without pulling my hair out, things that should've been handled before the 38 updated Zen market patches? We have a PvP tournament going on on Mindflayer, and we are having trouble keeping it together with only 13 teams, as people are just leaving game left and right. Accounts are selling like hotcakes, one day you have a top level PvPer friend, the next someone that doesn't know you or speak English on the same account. Everyone seems to be just getting tired of the nickle and dime game and the same old content and bugs. People can't even get a response to their legitimate help requests. I realize you are inendated with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> questions like, where is the mailbox, but people like me haven't been able to see scores since beta-beta, as they just fly off the screen. Legitimate problems that we just can't get help with.
I am asking on behalf of my guild and many, many other players, please, take some time in development to fix some bugs, release some content, or you are going to have to start counting all those spam-blocked gold farmers as current accounts to keep that 2 million mark, as I said before, its just hard enough to keep a small PVP tourney together.
Thanks guys.
a) The video was sent to Polygon by PWE....that makes it official.
b) This thread was started by Cryptic.....that makes it official. And according to the title, there's OVER 2 million players.
Pro tip: If your going to judge something by misspelled words, then you should probably use a spell checker yourself first.
According to their investor call, they had less then 500,000 players before the F2P launch. No one is denying that.
After the F2P launch, they claimed they were up to 2 million players.
Let me be one of the few people that have said congratulations. I may not see a ton of people on all the time on Mindflayer, but there's still quite a decent amount.
Enjoyed the video as well.
OK we all know the title says 2 million players and again i ask how do they come to this figure, i am very interested in what must be a revolutionary new system for working out the number of individual players from populations of online multinational MMO's. I know some subscribed MMO giants have in the past based some figures on IP addresses but even that was along way off being anywere near accurate.
Many many posts have said exactly the same thing and that this has to be 2 million 'unique' accounts created but we keep getting told this is players and was claimed as 'unique' players.
So to quash all scepticism many would like to know how they can claim to know pretty accurately the difference between unique accounts and unique players.
Just because the title of a book, or a heading in a newspaper says one thing does not mean its is true, and when media is concerned 9 times out of 10 it actually is not true, but a 'twist' on the truth, which is what people are saying in this case..
Because you can infer that the review was also in July, which means that the game did go live the previous month.
Where are they when Im sitting in dungeon/skirm ques for 2 hrs?
And also in the Vid where is the GWF in the Hirmnir fight kiting the army of Adds..... That was conveniently left out of the vid.
I don't see how it could be anything else but accounts created, "unique" is an ambiguous term.
They want to sound like they have 2 mil people playing the game which is rubbish, anyone knows that's not correct by a long shot. They have a few thousand playing at any given time at best, and that number will continue to fall. This game is really a bubble, and one that's going to burst in a few months. For all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players have to deal with, there just isn't enough that's uniquely exciting and special over the ton's of other MMO's to keep people interested for very long.
Ill give it 6 months at best, before the mass exit ensues.
There's no way in Hades this game has two million individual players. More like a few thousand.
based on 2 million accounts, there`s 1 out of 10 accounts a bot.
but , not 1/10 of 2 million.
there`s inactive accounts, a lot.
people who regular added others to friends list can actualy confirm there`s a lot of players who`ve tried the game,
but didn`t come back.
it happend already the first month.
i played a lot, 18 hours a day. with changing playtimes.
about 3 or 4 of the 20 in my list actualy logged on sometimes.
it`s safe to say 3/5 of the accounts created the first month don`t play anymore.
if you have been in some small guilds, you noticed there was almost never someone online,
some logged in once a week. the rest never.
can go on like this, but i know the number of players lays way closer to 200k, which is even generous
and from that number you take the 1/10 bots.
it`s just PR posts like this.
based on psycholigic rules most follow, "if so much others play it, it has to be good"
anyone who played this for a while knows it has potential, but somehow pwe/cryptic can`t live up to the tech that`s needed.
for arenapoint systems for example, and competition, and lasting end content.
i`m not going to give anymore hints. i realy need a paycheck beyond this point.
but ok, who wants to work for...
forgot to mention people have double accounts also ofcourse.
(A few posts have been moved to the Lower Depths's Unproductive Pit.)
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I'd say more around 5,000 players have 400 accounts.
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Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
half-life 3 confirmed??
Ok if you want to avoid getting extra character slots for 500 ZEN, but still sounds stupid to me. I paid 500 ZEN with earned AD for 2 extra character slots. All my characters can earn to same account and FFS do not people have real life for me 3 characters feel like a maximum what I want to have and maybe a 4th if I decide to quit playing totally with one other character.
Yes there are some bots, but people making many accounts make no sense to me. Ah ok they can log in with 2 computers and give items however what a trouble not worth it in my mind. I use one account and that is good for me and I do not need any cheating with bots.
No, its sad truth. I don't know how its on other servers, i'm playing on mindflayer. If u open character finder and look in some dungeon like "night raid", u will find there 100+ rogue bots.. AH is flooded with 99 enchant stacks, non stop spam in PE from goldsellers and sometime mails. They even made bot only guilds, its totally out of control.