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Trickster Rogue Changes
crucial991199
Member, NW_CrypticDev, Neverwinter Beta Users, Cryptic Developers, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 7Cryptic Developers › Arc User
Hi everyone,
A few changes to the Rogue will be going to Preview with the next patch:
At-Wills Depleting Stealth
In the end, this change didn't really solve the issues that we wanted it to. There are still some exploitative ways to play the Rogue that we're looking at, but this change didn't end up solving the core issue and hurt normal (and creative) gameplay. At-Will powers will no longer deplete your stealth.
Lurker's Assault
It would be tough to argue that Lurker's Assault didn't need some re-tuning. The damage bonus on it was just too extreme for both PVE and PVP. That said, the change to crit severity ended up being a bit too weak and favored certain feat builds too much. Lurker's Assault 5/10/15% crit severity has been replaced with 15/20/25% damage and the duration is back to 10 seconds.
I hope you all know that you have a huge impact on the direction of the game. The Preview shard isn't just a grace period before changes go live; it is a testing ground. We rely on getting lots and lots of feedback from you guys to make sure we're taking the game in the right direction.
Thanks for being so outspoken and passionate about the TR
~Crucial
A few changes to the Rogue will be going to Preview with the next patch:
At-Wills Depleting Stealth
In the end, this change didn't really solve the issues that we wanted it to. There are still some exploitative ways to play the Rogue that we're looking at, but this change didn't end up solving the core issue and hurt normal (and creative) gameplay. At-Will powers will no longer deplete your stealth.
Lurker's Assault
It would be tough to argue that Lurker's Assault didn't need some re-tuning. The damage bonus on it was just too extreme for both PVE and PVP. That said, the change to crit severity ended up being a bit too weak and favored certain feat builds too much. Lurker's Assault 5/10/15% crit severity has been replaced with 15/20/25% damage and the duration is back to 10 seconds.
I hope you all know that you have a huge impact on the direction of the game. The Preview shard isn't just a grace period before changes go live; it is a testing ground. We rely on getting lots and lots of feedback from you guys to make sure we're taking the game in the right direction.
Thanks for being so outspoken and passionate about the TR
~Crucial
Post edited by crucial991199 on
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Comments
maybe the community could help you to find a solution
Ah well
-Desstzo
Very nice to know you guys picked up on it
Lurker's Assault duration is back to 10 seconds.
Does this also mean that Sneaky Stabber and Gloaming Cut will once again be replenishing stealth?
I really enjoy the unique rogue class this game has and it's ability to fight from stealth, well done devs, well done indeed
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
OMG someone send this to Abombination... Comedy will ensue.
It's already hit the TR forum, so hopefully that will both quiet things down and help people feel much better about how the Devs are paying attention!
I am glad to see this being recalled not only because it did not make sense but it severely affected our class and the way it was designed. Thanks...
I don't think you will find too many rogues who know our class and how to play it that would disagree that it needed some adjustment. I believe what shocked us the most was you were taking a apple and replacing it with a lemon. You had previously dramatically nerfed one of our favorite daily's and then you hit this one by changing it to crit severity,huh??? It just did not make any sense at all.
I might suggest next time you are thinking of making such dramatic nerfs, especially to our class, why not stop by our class forums and at least let us know what you are thinking of doing, we have alot of smart players that know our class, feats and powers. Doing so might possibly eliminate a lot of unnecessary ranting and raving when it happens, communication goes a long way to understanding.
It will be interesting to see first hand how these changes will now affect our class....
Almost forgot, thanks for reviewing our concerns!
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
I saw 14 accounts in one of my guilds decide to close up when the original nerf was announced - several of them didn't even play TR's but had decided that they didn't like the constant nerf direction being taken by the devs - so there's already been an unfortunate effect before this announcement.
To everyone that gave invaluable insight and information. I thank you....from the bottom of my heart.
Back to game now, with a renewed sense of passion^__^
Although I wish to point out something that in my opinion is a serious defect in Neverwinter's game design:
No one disagrees that our class is overpowered in some aspects. There are lots of suggestions and feedback threads around test forums (devlinne's for example) and I hope that some kind soul would compile them in one big detailed post.
I would also like to thank all those people who were giving constructive and sensible feedback.
P.S. all the more reason to come back and continue playing.
Used it a couple of times in PVP... only to find out that GWFs, GFs, and CWs have skills that actually can knock you out of it. Made me go back to Courage Breaker, WhirlWind of Blades... or CB and Shocking Execution (which is not very useful in PVE or PVP anymore so rarely used)
1. Listening
2. Responding
Just to take note... in the future more prompt feedback will go a long way. Like mentioned before the mere announcement of the proposed changes has already had a big negative effect.
Maybe consider just pitching in earlier with a "we're seeing the concern and looking at the issue", instead of just locking threads left right and centre and pulling out the ban hammer, all the while keeping quiet about the issue and wether our cries are falling on deaf ears or not.
I hope going forward the way proposed changes get implemented will be done differently. We are a very capable and willing community of TR's, but if you indeed value our feedback like said above - please learn from this, still a disaster of a move.
Thank you for taking one step forward after the 10 you took backwards.
Regards
Avian - Beholder Shard
It took you 10 days to finally come out and redact this insanely stupid nerf and gutting of the Rogue class. 10 days to finally make a statement, after seeing thousands of posts against this terrible proposed nerf.
How about next time, you don't overreact and overnerf ANY class to the ground and actually take 5-10 minutes out of each day to have a dialog with your customers instead of remaining silent and absent on the forums?
You still have not told us what your goal was in the first place, by making these nerfs. Was it to get rid of permastealth (which is needed)? Was it to cut down PvE damage because you think your joke of boss fights are too easy with good Rogues on them?
For the record, the Lurker's Assault nerf is still too severe, but it'll at least be more useful than 15% Crit Severity with a teleport, lasting only 7 seconds. LA needs to be at 40%, not 25%. 35% decrease is too much.
By the way, this is still not balancing. You are still nerfing Rogues in multiple ways and giving nothing back to make up for what you're taking away. It's just not nearly as severe as what you originally planned to do to Rogues and you're not going to destroy TRs' core mechanics.
And why not nerf it a bit (say LA goes from 60 to 50 or 40%) and see how things go and if it's not enough decrease it a bit more in a later patch and so on? There's no reason you have to make these huge cuts in one go and give everyone a heart attack.
Most rogues are fully aware that certain things with our class did need looking at but the proposed changes to stealth really broke the class mechanics and many of our abilities.
I personally think the hit on lurkers is still a bit OTT but need to test it before saying more , glad to see we got the 10 sec duration back too.
If the end result was to nerf perma-stealth, I agree, have a dialog with the community and certain members are very well informed about how the class works. In fact, the person who invented the perma-stealth build has said in a different post on how to completely get rid of it. Sorry, I don't remember the name or thread, hopefully he'll post here again.
One final thing, I'm also of the opinion LA is still too severe a hit, and like someone else said, lower it and if it is not enough lower it again.
Thank you so much for making many people fears placated and having a dialog with your loyal fans!!! Greatly appreciated!!!
Opened up comments, because I would love to hear what everyone says, even the naysayers.
http://goo.gl/TiX1kO
Explain how someone can repeatedly throw daggers at a person and remain unnoticed? In PnP DnD, attacking broke stealth and cancelled invis every time.
The damage could go up to 35% but 25% is not too bad.
This isn't PnP and the TR's entire core value in this game is built around stealth.
If it is that much of a priority for wizzy's and Clerics to see approaching rogues I beleive a 'see invisibility' enchantment can be developed for their armor, upgradeable to varring distances. The enchantment would take up their purple slot.
Actually, these nerfs are anything but common sense and they're far from reasonable.
A common sense and reasonable nerf would be to get rid of Bait and Switch giving back 100% of stealth bar when used in stealth and replacing it with something else. A reasonable nerf would be to lower Lurker's Assault down to 40%, instead of the proposed 25% damage bonus. A common sense approach would be to leave Duelist's Flurry alone, as well as Cloud of Steel. And if they really wanted to balance this game's PvP, they'd properly nerf Greater Tenebrous stacking and take a long hard look at the truly OP classes such as GWFs and GFs.
Oh and by the way, there are tons of games out there, especially MOBA games where the developers listen to their customers / players a whole lot more than Cryptic does with us. They actually communicate regularly with their customers, not only when extreme outrage occurs such as what happened here. It took 10 days and thousands of "voices" for someone at Cryptic to finally come out and say something about this terrible nerf.