venge1155Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited July 2013
The clear distinction of vanity items vs. ease of use items is my issue with the free to play model. Charging for respecs in today's gaming climate is downright cruel. It has been many many years sense set talent points have been a part of gaming, much less MMOs. I truly think that is the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> part of the store, bags and some others are borderline in my eyes, but Respecs are the one things that truly puts a bad mark on the game.
I also agree that the prices are incorrect, I also feel that will work itself out once they add something to the store of a worthy value and see sales on that mount , or what have you, FAR outshines the overpriced items.
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goldentulipMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Prices compared to other games are not that expensive imo, GW2 for instance...that game gem store is a huge money sink, spent too much on it, realized that too late unfortunately. Even with nightmare boxes here, they seem too far a better chance to get the rarest item than chests in GW2, their RGN is just horrible. With all bound items that cannot be sold on trading post, there is no way to get them other that spending real money.
At least here they give you an option to farm AD and convert to zen or even buy it directly from AH. I do really appreciate these options so very much.
personally, i don't even factor in zen prices because you don't need to spend money to acquire zen. most of my zen purchases have been from in-game farming/grinding. of course, this method will take longer than buying zen outright. but that doesn't really bother me. i'm still getting enjoyment from in-game play as well as social networking. zen pricing, in my opinion, is set to keep special items limited. if epic mounts were 500z then everyone would have them at level 20. all the items in the zen store is designed to make game play easier: faster and more durable mounts vs the 5g rank 1 mount that grants a 50% speed increase. profession assets. rare and epic companions. but none of these items are required for end-game.
In a years time or two years. If you spent thousands of dollars, will you truly be happy or left with buyers remorse. My personal thought is, the prices are a bit high. If they were dropped. You would have more people buying things. More players.
I already have buyers remorse for spending $60 on my Guardian pack which did not help as much as I thought it would. Compared to the two other games I have bought founders packs for, this one was by far the worse deal. And to add insult to injury, I had $30 worth of "Ultimate Game Card" (which are useful in game currency for thousands of games) from a video game event I attended and I transferred it in to Zen. Huge mistake, I wish I could have that $90 back. The Zen is still sitting there, I haven't even transferred it over to Neverwinter. I don't feel like there is any point, $30 won't go very far.
Prices compared to other games are not that expensive imo, GW2 for instance...that game gem store is a huge money sink, spent too much on it, realized that too late unfortunately. Even with nightmare boxes here, they seem too far a better chance to get the rarest item than chests in GW2, their RGN is just horrible. With all bound items that cannot be sold on trading post, there is no way to get them other that spending real money.
At least here they give you an option to farm AD and convert to zen or even buy it directly from AH. I do really appreciate these options so very much.
Randomly generated is randomly generated, there isn't really any "better random". I've not spent more than $15 a month on Gw2 cash shop and I have every single rare skin or event mini pet. I even have all the Christmas and Halloween ones. That's the nature of random. Plus, the items from Gw2 gem store are all "fluff" items, not like respecs and bags. They are fun, cosmetic items only. You can buy more bank space or more character slots, but they don't start you out with a disgustingly small amount so you're obligated to buy more if you want to enjoy yourself. Even hoarders like me can be satisfied with the starting bank/ inventory space in GW2. I love the crafting storage!
And the Gold to Gem conversion in GW2 is so much better than the AD exchange here. Once you get level 80, it's so easy to get gold that you almost never have to buy gems to purchase whatever you want off the gem store, but you kind of want to, to support such an awesome game.
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hobokenboyBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
$35, 3500 Zen, or around 1.2m AD. I'm halfway saved up for the Howler and this Gift of Tymora event is really helping.
One point two million AD. Are you playing the market, or simply farming this amount up? If you're farming it...can I ask how long you play each day?
Personally, the methods that the game has set up for one to get AD are not things I like doing. Grinding dungeons or skirmishes or godawful user generated content? Nope.
Pvp? Hah. I'd rather boil my manparts in oil.
So, that's dungeons, skirmishes, Foundry and PvP down the tubes. This leaves prayer and playing the market. Except, in order to play the market, I'd need a max level character(don't have one yet) and I'd need to do something I hate doing in the first place. Farm dungeons.
So really, the only way that /I personally/ have to make AD is prayer, and you can only pay so many times before you stop getting AD for it. At that rate, to gain enough AD for anything worthwhile will take at least half a year...IF I log in daily and pray the max number of times. Per character. (Which is two, in case you're wondering.)
Owait. I can buy zen and convert. Which is the main subject of this thread, not whether or not you can "earn" AD in the game. I'll say it again....pricing for things in the store is much too high, IMHO. If they lowered costs of things, I'd gladly shell out shekels. Until then? No cash for you!
Its tough for me to justify some of the prices on the Zen market. Things like ten dollars for a single 24 slot bag are difficult to justify. I wouldn't pay 10 dollars for a bag that holds 24 things IRL let alone a pixelated representation of one.
Sarcasm aside, some of these items are unreasonable only because of the way they effect the game. Most people would argue that a companion is an essential part of the game. It is, for all intents and purposes, part of your character's strength. By the time you are max level, the basic companion you get or can buy with gold is too weak to be useful, and it cannot be upgraded. This leaves the player in an awkward position where they are forced to pay for a part of their character's strength. To me, that is no different than having to pay for power points or access to new abilities. The prices themselves are pretty awful too. $15-40 depending on what you want is extremely steep in a market where full featured AAA titles retail for $50-60 on release.
What you get doesn't match what you pay. IMO, cutting the prices of companions by 80-90% would not be out of line.
All of the good stuff in this game is restricted to zen. Bag space, faster mounts, companions that don't die every trash pull by level 60, enough character slots to try out every class the game currently has, more than a pitifully small storage space. All of these things are for paying customers only. Worse, most of the things you can buy in the Zen store are for one character at a time only. Why did they do it like that? Why not sell bag slot unlocks and make bags part of professions and random drops rather than sell the individual bags? Because they want to gouge people. This sort of thing is predatory.
Sure, you can convert AD into Zen, but considering the rate at which you can actually get AD this would make Neverwinter one of the grindiest MMO's in history.
Most of all, I worry that cryptic is catering to a very small group of people willing to spend hundreds or thousands on this game, while leaving the majority of it's playerbase in a position where they will never buy anything because they can't justify the cost.
Randomly generated is randomly generated, there isn't really any "better random". I've not spent more than $15 a month on Gw2 cash shop and I have every single rare skin or event mini pet. I even have all the Christmas and Halloween ones. That's the nature of random. Plus, the items from Gw2 gem store are all "fluff" items, not like respecs and bags. They are fun, cosmetic items only. You can buy more bank space or more character slots, but they don't start you out with a disgustingly small amount so you're obligated to buy more if you want to enjoy yourself. Even hoarders like me can be satisfied with the starting bank/ inventory space in GW2. I love the crafting storage!
And the Gold to Gem conversion in GW2 is so much better than the AD exchange here. Once you get level 80, it's so easy to get gold that you almost never have to buy gems to purchase whatever you want off the gem store, but you kind of want to, to support such an awesome game.
Yes i agree totally on this.
But this is Neverwinter its free to play you dont have to spend money on it at all. LOL
They should of used the same game model of GW2. But wait that would of made this game fail even sooner because even more people would be pissed off at the lack of quality right now. They would loose that excuse well its free to play they cant get everything right they dont have the funds to fix things...
I remember from the beginning of this game people would say they game started out to early because they needed the cash flowing or the game would never of launched cause they were running out of funds. Which actually i do think this also. The fanboys would freakout saying that cryptic has unlimited funds from PW and that cant be the case. well no we are what 6months along and still major exploits and bugs and unbalance heavy. And the most offten excuse now is they dont have the funds to get more programmers, its a free to play game, its a limited size team.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Except, in order to play the market, I'd need a max level character(don't have one yet) and I'd need to do something I hate doing in the first place. Farm dungeons.
Not remotely true. I earned my seed money from skirmishes, dailies, Leadership, and selling some crafted items, but you can buy things and sell up without being max level (I still don't have a 60 either) or ever having set foot in an epic dungeon. Research, math, patience. Start small and work your way up. And it's not going to work if you're not willing to put some time into browsing to learn what sells at what prices.
Yes it is overpriced. I figured 60$ for a game is an ideal price since that is the market value.
So I spent 60$.
I grabbed 3 bags for one toon (30$)
I also grabbed a stone (20$)
That left me with 10 dollars of zen. I turned that into AD and call my investment complete.
No I will not be buying the MACRO transactions since there is a difference between MACRO and MICRO.
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brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Not remotely true. I earned my seed money from skirmishes, dailies, Leadership, and selling some crafted items, but you can buy things and sell up without being max level (I still don't have a 60 either) or ever having set foot in an epic dungeon. Research, math, patience. Start small and work your way up. And it's not going to work if you're not willing to put some time into browsing to learn what sells at what prices.
Right. The trading community in MMOs always does well. The issue is that most players don't want to spend entertainment time "working" the virtual market in an MMO the way you would work a real world market. Some do, most don't. The ones who do always make out like bandits in MMOs precisely because most don't enjoy spending entertainment time working a virtual market.
Right. The trading community in MMOs always does well. The issue is that most players don't want to spend entertainment time "working" the virtual market in an MMO the way you would work a real world market. Some do, most don't. The ones who do always make out like bandits in MMOs precisely because most don't enjoy spending entertainment time working a virtual market.
the keys and the bags are the most barbaric. Ive spent a total of $50 on this game and i used it on bags and keys, and did not get anything good from the lock boxes.
I know if the zen items did get lower in price especially the keys which i do want lowered, it will ruin people who exploit the ah with over priced zen items.
But i still buy keys at the zen store than the AH cause even though it is over priced, it is cheaper than what people are selling it for. i bought 125 zen for around 44,000 and yet people are selling the keys for over 47,000. it is better to buy the keys from the zen market than the AH (unless people sell the keys in a bundle)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2013
If Zen store prices are lowered, people who buy Zen items to resell on the AH will simply lower their prices, but still price above the exchange rate. That's how that tidy little racket works. It won't "ruin" them, just take a bit longer to make the same money they can make at it now.
What I don't get is the number of times I've found greater bags of holding priced *below* the exchange rate... not that I'm complaining.
Keys... I dunno. This is one of those things nobody is forcing anybody to buy at any price. I'm not going to come over all heavy and disapproving about gambling, but that's what it is. I might start to buy some keys at a point when I think the exchange rate is favourable and I've got everything else I could possibly want, but I have no illusions about it.
brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I feel the same way about keys. If you like gambling, then that's the price to have a turn at the slot machine. I don't like gambling, but the price seems fair for a go at the slot machine.
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vashwixMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited July 2013
I would point at one thing only....
600 zen (or 500 when in sale) for 2 extra character slots.
We have 2 options:
1 - Pay (or use a lot of AD) and help Perfect World to keep database clear.
2 - Create another free account, same thing, free, and Perfect World have 1 more account on his database.
They should pay people to use a single account, not 'force' us to create more than one cause char slots are so expensive, imho!
Matter of fact, if someone use more characters will probably play more on this game, and maybe spend more money for his avatars...
They've kept an open mind on this issue and already lowered the Zen store prices once, so it's possible they may read and take not of the logics behind most of the arguments above.
A much-needed feature is the ability to send items as gifts in the Zen store. I want to give my wife a tiger but she doesn't want me to spend that money on a virtual item, and the only way I have of purchasing the cat for her is using her account, which in turn would send her an e-mail with the details of the purchase, which would probably mean a few nights sleeping at the living room for me :mad:
Lowering the prices a bit more means more purchases. A lot of people would go mad buying bags, companions and mounts. Keep the high prices in Enchanted Keys and Profession packs, so not to hurt in-game economy. And add more attractive and useful stuff to the Tarmalune bars store.
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brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
600 zen (or 500 when in sale) for 2 extra character slots.
We have 2 options:
1 - Pay (or use a lot of AD) and help Perfect World to keep database clear.
2 - Create another free account, same thing, free, and Perfect World have 1 more account on his database.
They should pay people to use a single account, not 'force' us to create more than one cause char slots are so expensive, imho!
Matter of fact, if someone use more characters will probably play more on this game, and maybe spend more money for his avatars...
The benefit of keeping it in the same account is that you can move AD around between characters on the account without using the AH and paying a cut.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2013
And if you do happen to buy a mount, or one of the packs, you benefit from having all characters on one account. Also, I'm quite sure that a shared bank will be implemented someday, and it's more convenient when using mail to share or consolidate items.
Most feedback I've seen has indicated that 500 Zen for two character slots is one of the more reasonably priced items.
I agree that the zen prices are to high for what value I think they deserve. However, and I think more importantly I think this game model and Cryptic/Perfect World have been intentionaly vague with its descriptions to the point of bordering on dishonestly selling you things that do not work as advertised, or do not allow a person to have sufficient knowledge to make an informed purchase. They do not disclose known broken items and are exploiting these broken items in order to make money. (e.g. selling RESPECs)
I would file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commision if I thought it would do any good, but I am sure there is something deeply burried in the EULA that allows them to get away with something a brick and motar store or somesone seeling an actual item would not be allowed to do.
Can you imagine buying a car and then finding out that the brakes only work every 4 hours, or the car can only turn left, or it only comes with a 2 gallon gas tank? Of course you bought this car without having all the specs, so its your fault, but they would be happy to sell you the upgraded gas tank for the price of 2 cars. This is what Neverwinter feels like to me. I feel like I am being exploited and tricked. I feel this way because you do not always know what your getting before your purchase. It seems to be intentional by the game designers to be vague and cryptic (pun intended) to know what a power or feat does exactly, because the stat/mechanics and tool tips are not even close to accurate, and the information is intentionaly not disclosed. What makes this really bad is that they know what is not working and do not disclose it. You use words like "chance" or control power, but do not define what control power is and you find out it only works on 1 spell, and you mistakenly and a reasonable person would think it works on 8 powers. Snake Oil!
I could live with all this stuff, if the game was entertaining. To be honest and give credit where credit is due the game is was very entertaining for the first 40 levels. The stories and missions were fun. I felt like I was part of a story. My character does not feel broken. At 60 it all falls a part, and I think it is primarily because of the pay-to-win model for the game. It is driving all of the entertainmnet out of the game and just turns it into a RACE for expensive shiny objects.
You really cannot compete in PVP or really do endgame content without a lot of the costly equipment, or spend all of your entertainment time farming, or playing the market. I am sorry I played the orginal AD&D, and many other MMOS for the ability to virtualy do fantastic things, accomplish heroic acts, for 1-2 hours a night to escape the pressures and pains of the regular day of the real world.
My experiences in the post 60 world are not about roleplaying, or typical MMO entertainment. I don't see anyone doing it, ever. I don't see anyone doing content other than to farm as quickly as possible, so that can afford or sell the next best vorpal dagger of death. All this payment model does is encourage repetitive farming and looking for exploiting to give some sort of "uber real or perceived advantage". Not to be a part of an ongoing story, not to write my own characters story, not to overcome interesting challenges and come up with creative and fun ways to meet those challenges. It is to see how many times I can skip through content so that I can get a chance at uber loot before the game timer is up so I can do the same thing over again and again because I got the crappy drop that I don't need or can't sell for anything.
Rhix is nothing more than a virtual "crack" dealer. This game's crack is Astral Diamonds, and the game's whole purpose is to get you addicted to them via social engineering tricks and bait and switch IMHO. My patience with this is about worn out, and I am very near walking away from the game and doing something else more entertaining. I really regret spending my hard earned money on this game and I should have known better after seeing how little real information was provided. I am only around now because I feel I have invested time and money and the game and I want it to succeed. I want to see a balance between pay and play. I would prefer the pay aspect to be totaly on personal customization and small quality of life improvements, but don't effect game balance. I don't think it is fun to create 5 accounts, level the characters up to 11 so I can pray every day on all of those accounts every day so I can get a small chance for a coalscent ward so that I can actualy make a meaningful endgame enchantments after several months. That is not fun or enteraining IMHO. At converting 24 AD/per day will take years to have enough AD to buy just (1) 7 million AD perfect enhancement.
Lastly, regardless of my long rant, I recognize my rant will likely have very little effect, but the market will determine if they continue with their current prices allows them to be profitable or not over a long period of time. If I was Cryptic I would be worried because from what I have seen is that gamer rention is terrible, replay is not great, and the only thing they have going now is new buisness (suckers) are keeping them going.
I certainly qualify as a cash-rich, time-poor player but prices for most items are way above what I am prepared to pay for polygons. Fortunately, most of the things that I am bothered about (generally, the stuff in the 'Services' area of the store) are more reasonably priced and keep my expenditure well within my self-imposed limits for a F2P game. I don't doubt that there are aspects of the game that I won't be able to experience without paying more. That's not a problem, I don't need to see or do everything. Besides, as I won't have 'invested' much into the game, it will be easy to walk away from once I've had my fill from the free buffet. Obvious trap is obvious, and all that.
I've been thinking about this for a while too, and I've grown disillusioned with this game and no longer play. I've played many games with a cash shop, including both free to play, pay to play and subscription based and I can honestly say this is the one game that not only does my dollar not go as far, but far more things are cash shop only. If I had to choose the number one worst deal for my money out of the many MMOs I've played, this would be it........
...I want to be clear and just say that I do not mind micro-transaction style free to play games. I usually allow myself $15-$30 a month for MMO subscriptions or micro-transactions, but it's like a previous poster said: there's nothing "micro" about the prices.
This game is fun, and I would like to play it, but if I compare it to other western buy to play or free to play games, it is just too expensive for me and I cannot justify playing it.
QFT (edited for space...i support the whole post). sums up my thoughts precisely. I am playing, but they will get NO MORE of my money until they get a solid grasp of balanced and reasonable cost. the market in this game is currently broke. high end items are BoE, and with a days worth of AD you can get 1-2 HIGH END EPIC ITEMS. but to simply upgrade your starting companion so they die in 15 seconds instead of 5 it will cost us enough AD that the same dailies will take me MONTHS to acquire enough for even ONE comp.
horrid horrid horrid. Cryptic get a grip. The ONLY reason I'm still playing is because I don't have to pay...ANd for now I wont. Cryptic, you need to realize that in order to get people to continue to play and PAY, you need to make things realistic and progressive. end game is dead because you have no clue what Bind on Pickup and Bind on Equip is really for, and your Vendor options are atrociously priced. for the price of one green lvl 20 weapon in the bazaar, i can get 3 epic pieces that are level 60.
People like myself will sink PLENTY of money into a game that provides us with viable options in the store that have VALUE correlative with the cost. right now that isn't true. I've invested far more then a subs worth of money into other freemium games...I will not do this anymore in this one unless you change things.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
A poster, made an interesting comment about complaining to FTC(Federal Trade Commission) that's exactly what happened to Bio ware's game Mass Effect 3. People were so upset at the ending, creating accounts for signatures to have them re-do it. One poster even complained to the FTC over that. So I'm positive it could be done in regards to this.
When I first entered this game. It hinted weeks, after weeks that "Hero of North Promotion" was ending soon. I could live with them extending deadlines month after month even thought constant warnings about it ending soon, even live with them still selling it only removing "Founders title from it" However in regards to limited bag space. The way its designed to have two small bags at the start of the game.
It's like they're intentionally designing your bag to overflow. My solution to this would be, when you buy a bag of greater holding instead of limiting it one per toon, make it account wide. That's how Hero of North is designed, any of my alts get the same mount, etc. So why can't we do that with stuff we buy in zen store. Why must be re-pay for items we bought on one toon, for five other ones. That 10.00 quickly becomes 50.00 for 5 toons getting the exact same item "greater bag of holding" valued at 10.00 each.
I can live with most of the stuff. The thing that is both upsetting and frustrating. They could easily make things you buy account wide. They decided not to. They could ended Hero of North promotion much like Star Wars ended its Collectors Edition valued at 150 dollars when the game launched. Yet its still there. Those special items were supposed be for those who prepaid for the game with 200 dollars as an investment to help launch the game.
Back to my point, making things you buy at Zen Store account wide when you buy it for one. Would go a long way. I know they're raking in an unbelievable amount of money because the game is polished, hardly lags. Yet the Zen Store high prices, may end up discouraging potential customers. These prices aren't just a little high but 10.00 dollars for each alt for one bag that holds more then normal, or 5.00 for every time I re-spec is a little outrageous.
The above are current prices for Zen. Take into account to get the new healer companion you have to spend 20 dollars or 2,000 Zen. I bought Hero of North. I know this is a free game and I'm entitled to nothing. Yet at the same time. I cannot remember a game in recent memory so expensive as this one.
There are people who say (Just don't buy anything) even to reset talent points cost Zen at (5.00) all I'm asking people look at the prices and what we can get, and say (Honestly, unbiased) if it's worth it. I noticed the max Zen you could buy was 50.00 through one transaction. Now it's up from 100 dollars, to 200.
I know people who said they spent thousands on this game. (Yes thousands) I'd like peoples point of view, without flaming and just sincerely explain in detail they think its good or bad. For long term growth. I played several MMO's since the 90's, including couple free to play. Never before I seen prices sky rocket.
Do you feel you're getting your money's worth.
Haha man haven't played this game in weeks so funny to come back here and still see the some ole problems, same ole misery, same old Cryptic/PWE.
So how many people are left in this game now? (or better put, how many parent's haven't been keeping a keen eye on their credit card statements)
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
Haha man haven't played this game in weeks so funny to come back here and still see the some ole problems, same ole misery, same old Cryptic/PWE.
So how many people are left in this game now? (or better put, how many parent's haven't been keeping a keen eye on their credit card statements)
Since there is no sub, it's impossible to know how many have stayed or left. Sometimes, I think it might be better with a sub. Instead paying a large amount for ..more bag space..or reset talent points. I may have taken that for granted when I had a sub, I'd rage why they weren't creating content fast enough.
Yet now I'm in a position where I have to buy real money to resolve those issues. I'd learn to appreciate it a bit more on other games, I played.
Since there is no sub, it's impossible to know how many have stayed or left. Sometimes, I think it might be better with a sub. Instead paying a large amount for ..more bag space..or reset talent points. I may have taken that for granted when I had a sub, I'd rage why they weren't creating content fast enough.
Yet now I'm in a position where I have to buy real money to resolve those issues. I'd learn to appreciate it a bit more on other games, I played.
I just moved on.. I'm the biggest D&D buff but I just couldn't get past cryptic's greediness and shady business practices.. or there ability to release tested, exploit-free content. This game was doomed 1 month into the last open beta with all the exploits.
That and the fact that after shelling out $200 bones I still had no inventory, no bank slots to speak of, couldn't respec, and couldn't sell anything on the market.... $200 get's you 2 years of uninhibited play in other MMO's - it was a no brainer.
Been enjoying GW2 and SWTOR ever since. Funny thing is.. it took this game for me to finally try GW2.. I was just so disappointed after months of not playing anything waiting for this.
Mounts at least are accountwide. I still find them overpriced. $20 gets you a mid-range mount, that's too much. $40 for a epic mount really? That's almost a AAA title full featured game price with no extra costs involved.
Bags, Bank Slots, and Companions with how much they cost should be account wide.
The rest seems OK.
Overall I spent about $100 on the shop. Not dropping another $1 on this game until I see some sanity in the store.
I read some of these, people spending $100-$500-$1000; and I sit here trying to figure out what you're spending it all on.
I have spent $0 dollars. I have a 110% mount and a blue Ioun Stone.
I realize those enchantments are the endgame, and in practice are barely needed except when you want to roflstomp people in 5v5 domination or you want to speed run a dungeon. They are not needed to compete or complete anything at a normal speed and with a large enough population you don't always run into premades.
GG is completely a speed/tactic thing. I place top score regularly (also my team winning, though Ive placed top score and lost; but they were close matches still). I would place in top 5 even when I had my less than stellar 5g mount. If you want proof Ill start taking screen shots and posting here. 110% helps but isn't necessarily needed, if you understand how domination works and play smart and to your classes advantages. In the last week Ive run GG PvP 6 times; Ive placed first in score 5 times and team has won. Im not in it to place top score, Im in it for my team to win. (Now watch me go on some crazy losing streak)
Gear is easy to acquire, by either running dungeons or spotting deals on the AH. You DONT need Ancient castle/Avatar/Miracle etc etc. They make things a bit easier but still you can complete and compete with any decent T2 combo or set. Even T1 gear will get you through the easier of T2.
MY ONLY ISSUE is with bags, priced they should be account wide. But saying that. Ive acquired all these things with the starting basic bags they give you. Its about space/time management. Using the AH/mail system/Alts to your advantage.
I have never exploited. Ive done a couple speed runs, but nothing like I know a lot of people do.
And after all this..... Im sitting on 5k Zen. 250k AD+ on AH stuff. And probably around 1.5mil AD of stuff in my bag.
DONT PLAY HARDER, PLAY SMARTER.
PS. yah things are overpriced. :P
EDIT: PS PS Ive said this before and Ill continue saying it. With F2P mmos, Your Mileage will Vary YMMV; and get in a guild with good people. Not "good" in the sense they are flying through content like the game is gonna be gone tomorrow. But "good", friendly and helpful people.
I think the Zen prices are fine. I agree though, everything in the game is just soooo overpriced it's off putting. The bags that cost 10 dollars, or the respecs money, or the bank slots, or mounts, my god the list is endless. Thing is I like to support developers. League of legends has you buy COSMETIC things, that's it, and I know I spent at least 300$ on that cuz the game is worth supporting. Here, I wanted to buy the 200$ thing to support, but after playing for 20 levels, I decided I won't pay a single dime and just get to 60 and wait for game changes.
The free 2 play model should be that money will give you an extra boost in game play, cool things to have, stuff to make others jealous of you :P This game has that stuff, and that stuff is priced fairly, but the stuff that's literally there to inconvenience you and forces you to pay money or days upon days of grinding Astral Diamonds is just too expensive.
Thoughts: Good game, has great potential and with time will get better, but the Free 2 Play model is so out of whack that it became Pay 2 NOT Be Inconvenienced that it is driving so many players away, casual and hard core. Me included
It's a shame. I like the game, but the P2W design kind of kills it. I think cash shops can be an excellent addition to a game, but F2P games tend to overdo the significance of them in their games. Developers design everything around buying content and not really with the focus on good gameplay solutions to advancing the game.
Comments
I also agree that the prices are incorrect, I also feel that will work itself out once they add something to the store of a worthy value and see sales on that mount , or what have you, FAR outshines the overpriced items.
At least here they give you an option to farm AD and convert to zen or even buy it directly from AH. I do really appreciate these options so very much.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I already have buyers remorse for spending $60 on my Guardian pack which did not help as much as I thought it would. Compared to the two other games I have bought founders packs for, this one was by far the worse deal. And to add insult to injury, I had $30 worth of "Ultimate Game Card" (which are useful in game currency for thousands of games) from a video game event I attended and I transferred it in to Zen. Huge mistake, I wish I could have that $90 back. The Zen is still sitting there, I haven't even transferred it over to Neverwinter. I don't feel like there is any point, $30 won't go very far.
Randomly generated is randomly generated, there isn't really any "better random". I've not spent more than $15 a month on Gw2 cash shop and I have every single rare skin or event mini pet. I even have all the Christmas and Halloween ones. That's the nature of random. Plus, the items from Gw2 gem store are all "fluff" items, not like respecs and bags. They are fun, cosmetic items only. You can buy more bank space or more character slots, but they don't start you out with a disgustingly small amount so you're obligated to buy more if you want to enjoy yourself. Even hoarders like me can be satisfied with the starting bank/ inventory space in GW2. I love the crafting storage!
And the Gold to Gem conversion in GW2 is so much better than the AD exchange here. Once you get level 80, it's so easy to get gold that you almost never have to buy gems to purchase whatever you want off the gem store, but you kind of want to, to support such an awesome game.
One point two million AD. Are you playing the market, or simply farming this amount up? If you're farming it...can I ask how long you play each day?
Personally, the methods that the game has set up for one to get AD are not things I like doing. Grinding dungeons or skirmishes or godawful user generated content? Nope.
Pvp? Hah. I'd rather boil my manparts in oil.
So, that's dungeons, skirmishes, Foundry and PvP down the tubes. This leaves prayer and playing the market. Except, in order to play the market, I'd need a max level character(don't have one yet) and I'd need to do something I hate doing in the first place. Farm dungeons.
So really, the only way that /I personally/ have to make AD is prayer, and you can only pay so many times before you stop getting AD for it. At that rate, to gain enough AD for anything worthwhile will take at least half a year...IF I log in daily and pray the max number of times. Per character. (Which is two, in case you're wondering.)
Owait. I can buy zen and convert. Which is the main subject of this thread, not whether or not you can "earn" AD in the game. I'll say it again....pricing for things in the store is much too high, IMHO. If they lowered costs of things, I'd gladly shell out shekels. Until then? No cash for you!
Sarcasm aside, some of these items are unreasonable only because of the way they effect the game. Most people would argue that a companion is an essential part of the game. It is, for all intents and purposes, part of your character's strength. By the time you are max level, the basic companion you get or can buy with gold is too weak to be useful, and it cannot be upgraded. This leaves the player in an awkward position where they are forced to pay for a part of their character's strength. To me, that is no different than having to pay for power points or access to new abilities. The prices themselves are pretty awful too. $15-40 depending on what you want is extremely steep in a market where full featured AAA titles retail for $50-60 on release.
What you get doesn't match what you pay. IMO, cutting the prices of companions by 80-90% would not be out of line.
All of the good stuff in this game is restricted to zen. Bag space, faster mounts, companions that don't die every trash pull by level 60, enough character slots to try out every class the game currently has, more than a pitifully small storage space. All of these things are for paying customers only. Worse, most of the things you can buy in the Zen store are for one character at a time only. Why did they do it like that? Why not sell bag slot unlocks and make bags part of professions and random drops rather than sell the individual bags? Because they want to gouge people. This sort of thing is predatory.
Sure, you can convert AD into Zen, but considering the rate at which you can actually get AD this would make Neverwinter one of the grindiest MMO's in history.
Most of all, I worry that cryptic is catering to a very small group of people willing to spend hundreds or thousands on this game, while leaving the majority of it's playerbase in a position where they will never buy anything because they can't justify the cost.
Yes i agree totally on this.
But this is Neverwinter its free to play you dont have to spend money on it at all. LOL
They should of used the same game model of GW2. But wait that would of made this game fail even sooner because even more people would be pissed off at the lack of quality right now. They would loose that excuse well its free to play they cant get everything right they dont have the funds to fix things...
I remember from the beginning of this game people would say they game started out to early because they needed the cash flowing or the game would never of launched cause they were running out of funds. Which actually i do think this also. The fanboys would freakout saying that cryptic has unlimited funds from PW and that cant be the case. well no we are what 6months along and still major exploits and bugs and unbalance heavy. And the most offten excuse now is they dont have the funds to get more programmers, its a free to play game, its a limited size team.
Not remotely true. I earned my seed money from skirmishes, dailies, Leadership, and selling some crafted items, but you can buy things and sell up without being max level (I still don't have a 60 either) or ever having set foot in an epic dungeon. Research, math, patience. Start small and work your way up. And it's not going to work if you're not willing to put some time into browsing to learn what sells at what prices.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
So I spent 60$.
I grabbed 3 bags for one toon (30$)
I also grabbed a stone (20$)
That left me with 10 dollars of zen. I turned that into AD and call my investment complete.
No I will not be buying the MACRO transactions since there is a difference between MACRO and MICRO.
Right. The trading community in MMOs always does well. The issue is that most players don't want to spend entertainment time "working" the virtual market in an MMO the way you would work a real world market. Some do, most don't. The ones who do always make out like bandits in MMOs precisely because most don't enjoy spending entertainment time working a virtual market.
really good point.
I know if the zen items did get lower in price especially the keys which i do want lowered, it will ruin people who exploit the ah with over priced zen items.
But i still buy keys at the zen store than the AH cause even though it is over priced, it is cheaper than what people are selling it for. i bought 125 zen for around 44,000 and yet people are selling the keys for over 47,000. it is better to buy the keys from the zen market than the AH (unless people sell the keys in a bundle)
What I don't get is the number of times I've found greater bags of holding priced *below* the exchange rate... not that I'm complaining.
Keys... I dunno. This is one of those things nobody is forcing anybody to buy at any price. I'm not going to come over all heavy and disapproving about gambling, but that's what it is. I might start to buy some keys at a point when I think the exchange rate is favourable and I've got everything else I could possibly want, but I have no illusions about it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
600 zen (or 500 when in sale) for 2 extra character slots.
We have 2 options:
1 - Pay (or use a lot of AD) and help Perfect World to keep database clear.
2 - Create another free account, same thing, free, and Perfect World have 1 more account on his database.
They should pay people to use a single account, not 'force' us to create more than one cause char slots are so expensive, imho!
Matter of fact, if someone use more characters will probably play more on this game, and maybe spend more money for his avatars...
A much-needed feature is the ability to send items as gifts in the Zen store. I want to give my wife a tiger but she doesn't want me to spend that money on a virtual item, and the only way I have of purchasing the cat for her is using her account, which in turn would send her an e-mail with the details of the purchase, which would probably mean a few nights sleeping at the living room for me :mad:
Lowering the prices a bit more means more purchases. A lot of people would go mad buying bags, companions and mounts. Keep the high prices in Enchanted Keys and Profession packs, so not to hurt in-game economy. And add more attractive and useful stuff to the Tarmalune bars store.
The benefit of keeping it in the same account is that you can move AD around between characters on the account without using the AH and paying a cut.
Most feedback I've seen has indicated that 500 Zen for two character slots is one of the more reasonably priced items.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I would file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commision if I thought it would do any good, but I am sure there is something deeply burried in the EULA that allows them to get away with something a brick and motar store or somesone seeling an actual item would not be allowed to do.
Can you imagine buying a car and then finding out that the brakes only work every 4 hours, or the car can only turn left, or it only comes with a 2 gallon gas tank? Of course you bought this car without having all the specs, so its your fault, but they would be happy to sell you the upgraded gas tank for the price of 2 cars. This is what Neverwinter feels like to me. I feel like I am being exploited and tricked. I feel this way because you do not always know what your getting before your purchase. It seems to be intentional by the game designers to be vague and cryptic (pun intended) to know what a power or feat does exactly, because the stat/mechanics and tool tips are not even close to accurate, and the information is intentionaly not disclosed. What makes this really bad is that they know what is not working and do not disclose it. You use words like "chance" or control power, but do not define what control power is and you find out it only works on 1 spell, and you mistakenly and a reasonable person would think it works on 8 powers. Snake Oil!
I could live with all this stuff, if the game was entertaining. To be honest and give credit where credit is due the game is was very entertaining for the first 40 levels. The stories and missions were fun. I felt like I was part of a story. My character does not feel broken. At 60 it all falls a part, and I think it is primarily because of the pay-to-win model for the game. It is driving all of the entertainmnet out of the game and just turns it into a RACE for expensive shiny objects.
You really cannot compete in PVP or really do endgame content without a lot of the costly equipment, or spend all of your entertainment time farming, or playing the market. I am sorry I played the orginal AD&D, and many other MMOS for the ability to virtualy do fantastic things, accomplish heroic acts, for 1-2 hours a night to escape the pressures and pains of the regular day of the real world.
My experiences in the post 60 world are not about roleplaying, or typical MMO entertainment. I don't see anyone doing it, ever. I don't see anyone doing content other than to farm as quickly as possible, so that can afford or sell the next best vorpal dagger of death. All this payment model does is encourage repetitive farming and looking for exploiting to give some sort of "uber real or perceived advantage". Not to be a part of an ongoing story, not to write my own characters story, not to overcome interesting challenges and come up with creative and fun ways to meet those challenges. It is to see how many times I can skip through content so that I can get a chance at uber loot before the game timer is up so I can do the same thing over again and again because I got the crappy drop that I don't need or can't sell for anything.
Rhix is nothing more than a virtual "crack" dealer. This game's crack is Astral Diamonds, and the game's whole purpose is to get you addicted to them via social engineering tricks and bait and switch IMHO. My patience with this is about worn out, and I am very near walking away from the game and doing something else more entertaining. I really regret spending my hard earned money on this game and I should have known better after seeing how little real information was provided. I am only around now because I feel I have invested time and money and the game and I want it to succeed. I want to see a balance between pay and play. I would prefer the pay aspect to be totaly on personal customization and small quality of life improvements, but don't effect game balance. I don't think it is fun to create 5 accounts, level the characters up to 11 so I can pray every day on all of those accounts every day so I can get a small chance for a coalscent ward so that I can actualy make a meaningful endgame enchantments after several months. That is not fun or enteraining IMHO. At converting 24 AD/per day will take years to have enough AD to buy just (1) 7 million AD perfect enhancement.
Lastly, regardless of my long rant, I recognize my rant will likely have very little effect, but the market will determine if they continue with their current prices allows them to be profitable or not over a long period of time. If I was Cryptic I would be worried because from what I have seen is that gamer rention is terrible, replay is not great, and the only thing they have going now is new buisness (suckers) are keeping them going.
QFT (edited for space...i support the whole post). sums up my thoughts precisely. I am playing, but they will get NO MORE of my money until they get a solid grasp of balanced and reasonable cost. the market in this game is currently broke. high end items are BoE, and with a days worth of AD you can get 1-2 HIGH END EPIC ITEMS. but to simply upgrade your starting companion so they die in 15 seconds instead of 5 it will cost us enough AD that the same dailies will take me MONTHS to acquire enough for even ONE comp.
horrid horrid horrid. Cryptic get a grip. The ONLY reason I'm still playing is because I don't have to pay...ANd for now I wont. Cryptic, you need to realize that in order to get people to continue to play and PAY, you need to make things realistic and progressive. end game is dead because you have no clue what Bind on Pickup and Bind on Equip is really for, and your Vendor options are atrociously priced. for the price of one green lvl 20 weapon in the bazaar, i can get 3 epic pieces that are level 60.
People like myself will sink PLENTY of money into a game that provides us with viable options in the store that have VALUE correlative with the cost. right now that isn't true. I've invested far more then a subs worth of money into other freemium games...I will not do this anymore in this one unless you change things.
When I first entered this game. It hinted weeks, after weeks that "Hero of North Promotion" was ending soon. I could live with them extending deadlines month after month even thought constant warnings about it ending soon, even live with them still selling it only removing "Founders title from it" However in regards to limited bag space. The way its designed to have two small bags at the start of the game.
It's like they're intentionally designing your bag to overflow. My solution to this would be, when you buy a bag of greater holding instead of limiting it one per toon, make it account wide. That's how Hero of North is designed, any of my alts get the same mount, etc. So why can't we do that with stuff we buy in zen store. Why must be re-pay for items we bought on one toon, for five other ones. That 10.00 quickly becomes 50.00 for 5 toons getting the exact same item "greater bag of holding" valued at 10.00 each.
I can live with most of the stuff. The thing that is both upsetting and frustrating. They could easily make things you buy account wide. They decided not to. They could ended Hero of North promotion much like Star Wars ended its Collectors Edition valued at 150 dollars when the game launched. Yet its still there. Those special items were supposed be for those who prepaid for the game with 200 dollars as an investment to help launch the game.
Back to my point, making things you buy at Zen Store account wide when you buy it for one. Would go a long way. I know they're raking in an unbelievable amount of money because the game is polished, hardly lags. Yet the Zen Store high prices, may end up discouraging potential customers. These prices aren't just a little high but 10.00 dollars for each alt for one bag that holds more then normal, or 5.00 for every time I re-spec is a little outrageous.
So how many people are left in this game now? (or better put, how many parent's haven't been keeping a keen eye on their credit card statements)
Since there is no sub, it's impossible to know how many have stayed or left. Sometimes, I think it might be better with a sub. Instead paying a large amount for ..more bag space..or reset talent points. I may have taken that for granted when I had a sub, I'd rage why they weren't creating content fast enough.
Yet now I'm in a position where I have to buy real money to resolve those issues. I'd learn to appreciate it a bit more on other games, I played.
I just moved on.. I'm the biggest D&D buff but I just couldn't get past cryptic's greediness and shady business practices.. or there ability to release tested, exploit-free content. This game was doomed 1 month into the last open beta with all the exploits.
That and the fact that after shelling out $200 bones I still had no inventory, no bank slots to speak of, couldn't respec, and couldn't sell anything on the market.... $200 get's you 2 years of uninhibited play in other MMO's - it was a no brainer.
Been enjoying GW2 and SWTOR ever since. Funny thing is.. it took this game for me to finally try GW2.. I was just so disappointed after months of not playing anything waiting for this.
Bags, Bank Slots, and Companions with how much they cost should be account wide.
The rest seems OK.
Overall I spent about $100 on the shop. Not dropping another $1 on this game until I see some sanity in the store.
I have spent $0 dollars. I have a 110% mount and a blue Ioun Stone.
I realize those enchantments are the endgame, and in practice are barely needed except when you want to roflstomp people in 5v5 domination or you want to speed run a dungeon. They are not needed to compete or complete anything at a normal speed and with a large enough population you don't always run into premades.
GG is completely a speed/tactic thing. I place top score regularly (also my team winning, though Ive placed top score and lost; but they were close matches still). I would place in top 5 even when I had my less than stellar 5g mount. If you want proof Ill start taking screen shots and posting here. 110% helps but isn't necessarily needed, if you understand how domination works and play smart and to your classes advantages. In the last week Ive run GG PvP 6 times; Ive placed first in score 5 times and team has won. Im not in it to place top score, Im in it for my team to win. (Now watch me go on some crazy losing streak)
Gear is easy to acquire, by either running dungeons or spotting deals on the AH. You DONT need Ancient castle/Avatar/Miracle etc etc. They make things a bit easier but still you can complete and compete with any decent T2 combo or set. Even T1 gear will get you through the easier of T2.
MY ONLY ISSUE is with bags, priced they should be account wide. But saying that. Ive acquired all these things with the starting basic bags they give you. Its about space/time management. Using the AH/mail system/Alts to your advantage.
I have never exploited. Ive done a couple speed runs, but nothing like I know a lot of people do.
And after all this..... Im sitting on 5k Zen. 250k AD+ on AH stuff. And probably around 1.5mil AD of stuff in my bag.
DONT PLAY HARDER, PLAY SMARTER.
PS. yah things are overpriced. :P
EDIT: PS PS Ive said this before and Ill continue saying it. With F2P mmos, Your Mileage will Vary YMMV; and get in a guild with good people. Not "good" in the sense they are flying through content like the game is gonna be gone tomorrow. But "good", friendly and helpful people.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
The free 2 play model should be that money will give you an extra boost in game play, cool things to have, stuff to make others jealous of you :P This game has that stuff, and that stuff is priced fairly, but the stuff that's literally there to inconvenience you and forces you to pay money or days upon days of grinding Astral Diamonds is just too expensive.
Thoughts: Good game, has great potential and with time will get better, but the Free 2 Play model is so out of whack that it became Pay 2 NOT Be Inconvenienced that it is driving so many players away, casual and hard core. Me included