yes i'm a little bit sad that i bought the sinister set, for the same price you can become the t2 pvp set...
Oh yeah I just read, man. I'll PM you in the game tomorrow! We could definitely use another TR around. We have an awful lack of TR's in the guild. So far there's only 3 of us in a 50-man guild.
Status: lets call it a "tie" for now. The mobs could not stop me from reaching the end, but I could not close the deal and kill Chartilifax at my current level (34). I honestly think that I could do it in the very near future if I had a couple of more tools at my disposal; namely, gloaming with 5 feats in sneaky... so, level 39.
Aw I thought I was amazing solo killing 'Arleon the Unforgiven'. LOL you put me to shame. You are one brave soul. I would love to see a video of you solo it *hint hint*
As for me, I've just hit level 30 and I'm having an obscene amount of fun with this build.
I do have a few questions for you though. You were absolutely right about the white youth gear, but do you use white weapons as well? Cause I've noticed there's quite a big difference in the base damage of white vs green weapons.
At level 30, I'm not sure where to start investing my paragon feats, I'm torn between Cunning Stalker and Underhanded Tactics. Which one did you choose?
Also, what enchantments do you plan to use with this build?
As always, please keep us updated on your progress. This is the best thread on the forums
Hello once more, Lichlament, and I'm really happy that we've managed to go past those misunderstandings and resolve them! I appreciate your understanding and input regarding this build and my play style as it will help further develop the build into one that does better in PVP, as this is mainly a PVE build.
If you have any other suggestions regarding changes for the PVP skill setups and/or strategies, please feel free to contribute. It's always a welcome experience to have a veteran player such as yourself to add in his 2 cents. It'll be a contribution to the community in my opinion.
Also, you shouldn't have edited the post regarding how to beat my build in PVP for 90% of the time. I'm pretty sure I have an idea about how this works since I've encountered several players in the game who just downright screws up my rotations in PVP. But the other non-stealth TR players would be able to benefit from such an informative post. I personally would link your post on the PVP Section of this guide so players from all over who are curious as to how to beat us (as a TR or another class) can beat us in 1 vs. 1 scenarios.
And since our last few matches together, I believe I've also been able to polish the build to a competitive level. I managed to get rid of the DPS problem as well, but majority of my kills come from killing CW's, TR's and DC's. GWF's and GF's tend to be a problem in 1 vs. 1 scenarios specially if they're as skilled as tanks like jtype from our own server. But I did get my Head Hunter title some weeks (I think 2 weeks) back, and now I'm shooting towards Bloodthirsty. I collect screenshots of the matches I do (wins and losses) to take note of the setups I used which helped me achieve success and the ones which didn't turn out well. I believe I managed to get a working setup for PVP. Allow me to test it against you when we play against (or with) each other and tell me what you think, Lichlament!
If anyone wants to see the PVP screenies I think I'll upload them to photobucket or something and make a folder out of em. The edits regarding the PVP strategies will come soon, and I'll also be editing some stuff on the front page today like adding screenies of the up-to-date version of the skills and feat list.
That sounds like a plan.
and please upload the screenshots, I am sure, like myself, some are curious... I been debating doing this myself, but with the amount of pvp I do, My folder would get large, quickly.
On a side note, I would like to remind people. You are only as good as your team. A rogue does alot of damage and is great in 1v1 situations. But if your team cannot play their roles, even back capping becomes a effort in futility when the other teams 5 are steamrolling down toward you.
I really don;t want to post my build or the strat otherwise every other rogue out there jumps on the build and then either your build or mine becomes the "Cookie Cutter" norm... Having a variety of play styles keeps a game healthy and keeps the PvP healthy as well...
I have had games where I have finished with 20 + kills and 0 deaths
..and I have had games where I die more than I kill...
All depends on what I am facing, and who is on my team.
Currently exploring premade groups and working with some people in strats as a group, as a whole, instead of tuning Svetlana at the moment.
I am happy with where she sits. Will she need more tuning ? Of course...
All in time...
I am sure we will meet again on the field soon enough and we can put the 2 builds to test.
I do have a few questions for you though. You were absolutely right about the white youth gear, but do you use white weapons as well? Cause I've noticed there's quite a big difference in the base damage of white vs green weapons.
At level 30, I'm not sure where to start investing my paragon feats, I'm torn between Cunning Stalker and Underhanded Tactics. Which one did you choose?
Also, what enchantments do you plan to use with this build?
AHHH, darn it... I'm sorry I wasn't more specific earlier on about the gear. For your daggers, absolutely DO NOT use white common stuff LOL, and do not care about if they have regen on them. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS look for whatever has the biggest base damage numbers and do not give a HAMSTER about what kind of stats are on them until you are level 60. This typically means you will be hopefully rolling with blues whenever possible, and occasionally dipping into the greens when you find something better than the blue daggers you've been using.
For the paragon feats, I would start with Cunning stalker and get to sneaky stabber 5/5 ASAP because that's when you can truly start to see the first form of permastealth by using Gloaming Cut on trash mobs. I'm not kidding about this... you can literally kill 1000 trash mobs in one stealth with 5/5 sneaky stabber, as long as you can one-shot them enough of the time, and that's one of the things that our STR+CHA build is going to be really good at. Once you can mostly eliminate trash mobs from the tactical picture, then the problem solving gets easier as you tackle harder and harder dungeons. As an example, in my failed run at LotMD, it was trash mobs who caused me to fail. Not the boss... the trash.
For enchantments, I'm not even trying to think about that yet LOL I'm just collecting as many as I can and fusing my hiney off. When we can get a better look at endgame gear then we can figure that out. I do have a handful of rank 5's already from other chars, so maybe I'll get a couple of 6's soon. I do want to say that I'm not going to use any enchantments until I'm in endgame gear. The enchantments just seem to be "level 60 only" stuff to me, and when it comes to buying something with AD I have to say that getting a companion stone or cat has to take precedence over buying out for shinies. The reason for this is that there is an entire enchantment system of runes that you can't make use of until you have a companion to put them on LOL, so getting a cat or stone is a priority as far as I can see it.
Addendum: the current thinking for runes is silvery for the recharge, with dark for utility (speed), and I'm guessing that the final analysis will yield this to be the best way to kit out the Saboteur as well.
PS good job on getting to 30, klixan!
PPS I have a bunch of leftover seals of the lion I can't use anymore... I would love to mail you a shiny new set of blue level 32 daggers, if you want them.
That sounds like a plan.
and please upload the screenshots, I am sure, like myself, some are curious... I been debating doing this myself, but with the amount of pvp I do, My folder would get large, quickly.
On a side note, I would like to remind people. You are only as good as your team. A rogue does alot of damage and is great in 1v1 situations. But if your team cannot play their roles, even back capping becomes a effort in futility when the other teams 5 are steamrolling down toward you.
I really don;t want to post my build or the strat otherwise every other rogue out there jumps on the build and then either your build or mine becomes the "Cookie Cutter" norm... Having a variety of play styles keeps a game healthy and keeps the PvP healthy as well...
I have had games where I have finished with 20 + kills and 0 deaths
..and I have had games where I die more than I kill...
All depends on what I am facing, and who is on my team.
Currently exploring premade groups and working with some people in strats as a group, as a whole, instead of tuning Svetlana at the moment.
I am happy with where she sits. Will she need more tuning ? Of course...
All in time...
I am sure we will meet again on the field soon enough and we can put the 2 builds to test.
You got it, man. I'll upload the screenies on a photo hosting site as soon as I get home from work. And I agree with you that the overall effectiveness of the back-capping strategy heavily relies on the allies overpowering the opponents on tower 2, if they're squishy, more often than not the Stealth TR is required to assist them on tower 2 which completely defeats the purpose of the build. But the good part about engaging opponents in tower 2 with your entire team is that mostly all the opponents aren't aware of your position due to the fact that they are preoccupied with the things they can see, mainly the non-stealthed allies. This in turn gives us a whole lot of breathing room since we can whack people without much repercussions and make the opponents softer as our allies deliver the finishing blow. I'm not the type of person who minds if an ally kills a person I softened up significantly. Victory is a group effort after all.
On the topic of 20 kills and 0 deaths, I have a similar screenie right here. We have a bot in our team as well so it made things a tad harder since I usually have 2 - 3 opponents against me in the opponent's tower during this match.
This is an above average kill rate I can get so far, though. Matches usually do not last longer than 20 minutes in my experience to the point where I can get more than 25+ kills. On average I can get 15+ kills. But that's about it. DPS burst rogues do better than me in terms of damage, but in terms of survivability I tend to be able to out-survive other rogues. I'll post the screenies later, bro. It has some losses on it as well so I'm pretty sure we'd have a lot of things we can assess from them. Feel free to share some of your screenies and experiences as well! I actually love seeing those types of screenies and watching PVP matches. A single picture can tell a lot about how the match went in my opinion, based on the numbers presented on the PVP stats.
I'm excited to be able to play with you again bro. I remember all the good people I faced before so I am extra wary whenever I see their names in the player roster in the PVP match.
Nice to see you all putting your heads together on this. Just goes to show, all builds have their pros and cons. Personally, I think this PvE build does decently in PvP as well. I suppose it's all a matter of priority-it's called a Trickster Rogue for a reason, so I consider it very legit. I'll be trying out this build on a rogue in a month or two if I can't get anywhere with my (not so beloved)cleric.
But then, by that time Feywild will be out, with hopefully better gameplay for all classes.
AHHH, darn it... I'm sorry I wasn't more specific earlier on about the gear. For your daggers, absolutely DO NOT use white common stuff LOL, and do not care about if they have regen on them. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS look for whatever has the biggest base damage numbers and do not give a HAMSTER about what kind of stats are on them until you are level 60. This typically means you will be hopefully rolling with blues whenever possible, and occasionally dipping into the greens when you find something better than the blue daggers you've been using.
For the paragon feats, I would start with Cunning stalker and get to sneaky stabber 5/5 ASAP because that's when you can truly start to see the first form of permastealth by using Gloaming Cut on trash mobs. I'm not kidding about this... you can literally kill 1000 trash mobs in one stealth with 5/5 sneaky stabber, as long as you can one-shot them enough of the time, and that's one of the things that our STR+CHA build is going to be really good at. Once you can mostly eliminate trash mobs from the tactical picture, then the problem solving gets easier as you tackle harder and harder dungeons. As an example, in my failed run at LotMD, it was trash mobs who caused me to fail. Not the boss... the trash.
For enchantments, I'm not even trying to think about that yet LOL I'm just collecting as many as I can and fusing my hiney off. When we can get a better look at endgame gear then we can figure that out. I do have a handful of rank 5's already from other chars, so maybe I'll get a couple of 6's soon. I do want to say that I'm not going to use any enchantments until I'm in endgame gear. The enchantments just seem to be "level 60 only" stuff to me, and when it comes to buying something with AD I have to say that getting a companion stone or cat has to take precedence over buying out for shinies. The reason for this is that there is an entire enchantment system of runes that you can't make use of until you have a companion to put them on LOL, so getting a cat or stone is a priority as far as I can see it.
Addendum: the current thinking for runes is silvery for the recharge, with dark for utility (speed), and I'm guessing that the final analysis will yield this to be the best way to kit out the Saboteur as well.
PS good job on getting to 30, klixan!
PPS I have a bunch of leftover seals of the lion I can't use anymore... I would love to mail you a shiny new set of blue level 32 daggers, if you want them.
Bummer! I would love to have your shiny blue daggers, but I'm on the Dragon server
Ah well, no matter, if I don't have enough seals, then I'll buy something off the AH. But thanks for the clarification about the daggers, cause I really didn't think you'd be using white stuff.
As for enchantments, I agree with you, I don't plan to use any until end game either. So far I've been saving Silvery (Recovery), Dark (Movement) and Azure (Defense), glad to see I'm on the right track
Well, I'm off to Helm's Hold tonight, let's see if I can keep my death free record.
Ok, I managed to get to level 37 before maintenance, but I'm sad to say, I've had my first death
It was The Gnarled Man (one of the Barrow Lords) in Ebon Downs that got me. It was my own silly fault though, I didn't notice the red circle at my feet, and by the time I did, he'd sucked the life out of me.
Still, I'm absolutely loving this build, it's the best character I've played so far.
Your name looks good in green bud, congrats on mod! If ever anyone deserves it, its a person who takes the high road like you do! *throws miniature cow at you*
Nice to see you all putting your heads together on this. Just goes to show, all builds have their pros and cons. Personally, I think this PvE build does decently in PvP as well. I suppose it's all a matter of priority-it's called a Trickster Rogue for a reason, so I consider it very legit. I'll be trying out this build on a rogue in a month or two if I can't get anywhere with my (not so beloved)cleric.
But then, by that time Feywild will be out, with hopefully better gameplay for all classes.
Arcanawolf, I assure you that you'll have fun leveling up as a Stealth TR. We've got a community of people willing to contribute their experiences and advice so if anyone has any questions, someone's sure to give an answer. It's not just my guide anymore, that's for sure!
Ok, I managed to get to level 37 before maintenance, but I'm sad to say, I've had my first death
It was The Gnarled Man (one of the Barrow Lords) in Ebon Downs that got me. It was my own silly fault though, I didn't notice the red circle at my feet, and by the time I did, he'd sucked the life out of me.
Still, I'm absolutely loving this build, it's the best character I've played so far.
I'm happy you're having a good experience with the build so far. One more area to look forward to in terms of powerful mobs would be Rothe Valley.
Driders. They screw us up. And the Intellect Devourers in the Dread Vault boss room, they can also see us in stealth. There are a variety of other mobs like that if I recall correctly. There's the Shadar-kai Witches in Ebon Downs, 2nd boss in Throne of Idris, and Idris herself. There's also a Werewolf mob on the last quest area of Vellosk that can detect us in Stealth. So if you want to cut back on the deaths some more, these are mobs you definitely want to be wary of!
Your name looks good in green bud, congrats on mod! If ever anyone deserves it, its a person who takes the high road like you do! *throws miniature cow at you*
LOL. Thanks once more! It's an honor for me to be part of the mod team that helps keep things in order and I assure everyone that I'll do my best and remain a humble servant to the community I love.
Thanks, man! I'm still learning the ropes and hopefully I can become as efficient as my superior mods soon. It takes some time and practice that's for sure.
I will make these the 2 final screenshot posts regarding scores, I feel it is a bit too e-peenish... =/
Caszar also runs the same build as me and is my partner in crime.
Lichlament! Great wins man. I personally like win #3. I think I know how you did it because I tend to do the same from time to time whenever I see that the opponents are squishy (TR, DC, CW). Ride a horse, rush to opponent's tower, kill opponents who are in there via Lurker's Assault + Impact Shot and Lashing Blade. The burst is just incredible and the best part is when they're riding horses. I have some screenies of those similar wins myself. Check these out man.
I have others in my older screenies but these are some of the most recent matches which ended up with the opponents leaving in the beginning of the match due to them not being able to capture tower 2 and losing their own tower. I like it when the opponents do not quit, however. The challenge is more exciting that way.
Keep those screenies coming, man. The numbers on the PVP stats tend to tell the whole story and I'm liking what I'm seeing.
Oh and here's one that I lost. 3 of us quit early in the match so I tried polishing my ambush tactics in this lost match. It may have been annoying for the opponent's side that someone was still going around and killing their people, but all for the love of testing and the guide, I say. I hope to be able to make this build viable for PVP soon.
I tend to switch powers often. Burst in the beginning of the match, max stealth once I don't have a full AP bar, and go back to burst setup whenever I have a full AP bar. This way I get to maximize the effects of having executioner and maximized stealth. I just hate it when I'm using Max Stealth and the opponent has Path of the Blades or Time Steal. Even worse when I'm using Lurker's Assault and the opposing TR uses a Smoke Bomb. I have my limitations and it tends to get me killed, those perfect counters.
I tend to switch powers often. Burst in the beginning of the match, max stealth once I don't have a full AP bar, and go back to burst setup whenever I have a full AP bar. This way I get to maximize the effects of having executioner and maximized stealth. I just hate it when I'm using Max Stealth and the opponent has Path of the Blades or Time Steal. Even worse when I'm using Lurker's Assault and the opposing TR uses a Smoke Bomb. I have my limitations and it tends to get me killed, those perfect counters.
I am with you, on that.
When the match loads up I open the scoreboard to see what I am up against and also hit " O " and click on "Find Person" tab, the default shows you who is in zone.
I hurry and try to set my powers to what I think I may face.
If I get any surprises or see how the match plays out initially, I will change on the fly or after a first death, Like if dealing with a Stealth build I wasn't aware about.
After so many matches you start knowing who carries what build, since there is only a handful to choose from.
Smoke bomb radius I have found to be too small and not the effectiveness to deal with a stealth rogue, as it's "live" time is very short.
Path of the blades is solid as is Blitz ...
Also.. A little trick... I have noticed sometimes ( not always ) ... Bait and Switch dummy will face the direction of a stealthed rogue.
Good for knowing where they are moving if your looking for a more direct attack, or preparing to Lashing Blade them when they get in close. Also standing beside the Bait and Switch dummy forces the opponents targeting onto the dummy...and their first and second attacks from stealth are wasted 9 times out of 10.
I had more screens saved but didn't want to post them. I had one screen saved where I Finished 12 / 10, which I wanted to use to point out the results one will encounter when dealing with poor team play.
Edit: I wanted to point out in a few of those matches you went against BoT's... I always try to make a note if a BoT is in the match as it cheapens the game.
just a quick question im fairly new to this game, what stats should i be looking for, my heads telling me crit and armor pen, and not worry about power would that be the right thing to do, i dont bother with life steal or anything like that
I am with you, on that.
When the match loads up I open the scoreboard to see what I am up against and also hit " O " and click on "Find Person" tab, the default shows you who is in zone.
I hurry and try to set my powers to what I think I may face.
If I get any surprises or see how the match plays out initially, I will change on the fly or after a first death, Like if dealing with a Stealth build I wasn't aware about.
After so many matches you start knowing who carries what build, since there is only a handful to choose from.
Smoke bomb radius I have found to be too small and not the effectiveness to deal with a stealth rogue, as it's "live" time is very short.
Path of the blades is solid as is Blitz ...
Also.. A little trick... I have noticed sometimes ( not always ) ... Bait and Switch dummy will face the direction of a stealthed rogue.
Good for knowing where they are moving if your looking for a more direct attack, or preparing to Lashing Blade them when they get in close. Also standing beside the Bait and Switch dummy forces the opponents targeting onto the dummy...and their first and second attacks from stealth are wasted 9 times out of 10.
I had more screens saved but didn't want to post them. I had one screen saved where I Finished 12 / 10, which I wanted to use to point out the results one will encounter when dealing with poor team play.
Edit: I wanted to point out in a few of those matches you went against BoT's... I always try to make a note if a BoT is in the match as it cheapens the game.
rohnir2012 and susanmii are 2 notorious bots...
I guess we have something in common whenever we start a match. I always, always hit "x" first to see the scoreboard as well, so I can analyze what I should expect before the match starts and slot the appropriate powers.
At the start of matches, I always make it a point that if the opponents have 2 CW or DC in their team, I setup Bait and Switch, Lashing Blade and Impact Shot. Provided I have a full AP bar that is, which every PVP-er should have before they start a match in my opinion. 1 Lurker's Assault can kill at least 3 soft classes with Lashing Blade, Impact Shot and Cloud of Steel. The burst capabilities of Executioner is just OP. Brutal Backstab makes everything so much easier thanks to the added crit severity. If the opponents have really beefy classes, I just setup my char for Max Stealth which is Bait and Switch, Shadow Strike and Impossible to Catch. If played right, I can stay in stealth for as long as 30 seconds and hold one position for my team within that time span and have my opponents guess where I am as they try to hit me with at-wills, and that amount is doubled with the use of Lurker's Assault as the cooldowns refresh as soon as Lurker's Assault ends.
And bro I'm actually using the same trick for the Bait and Switch skill. Sometimes I find beast opponents that can tell where I am based on the direction where my dummy is facing. So what I tend to do nowadays is to face another direction before using BaS to throw an analytic opponent off, provided that I have enough time to do it.
The troublesome opponents in my opinion are other Stealth TR's. They tend to take me by surprise since I do not encounter much of them. But people like Kyudo from our own server who has a similar stealth build is just scary to face. I'm pretty undergeared, no Skulker Set, epic shirt/pants or Soulforged yet so it's hard to face up against beast well-geared TR's like Kyudo, Quescia and Nyu. I remember the names of all the opponents I've had trouble with before. I put 1 point on Path of the Blades just to assist me from putting other Stealth TR's out of Stealth. I have yet to encounter a permastealth build in Mindflayer, however.
just a quick question im fairly new to this game, what stats should i be looking for, my heads telling me crit and armor pen, and not worry about power would that be the right thing to do, i dont bother with life steal or anything like that
You are correct, Demonizer. So far the stats in which you want to prioritize from gear are Crit > ArPen > Recovery. And it would be best if you put Silvery Enchants on your Offense Slots for added Recovery. More Recovery = faster AP Regen and faster skill cooldown, meaning you'll have a lot more room for error just in case you slip up somewhere in the middle of the rotation.
Oh yeah, I have been speaking to a person who read my guide a while back in the game. However our conversation was cut short due to a PVP match I was in and I apologize for that. I haven't been able to reply to you due to the fact that my chat window refreshed as soon as I got out of the PVP match, and I lost your name. If by any chance you read this, please send me a PM here in the forum or in the game! If possible, I really would like to send you an invite for the guild. You seem like you'd fit in really well with the others and I'd like to have you with us if it's possible.
when you are still lvling use power enchants that you find, it make the way to lvl60 easier and go for the cleric disciple companion.
then you have enough gold for the whole t1 pvp set without the daggers.
atm i have no idea what weapon enchanment i should use vorpal, tenebrous or flaming.
@todesfaelle gz to mod position, btw. /w me ingame
schweet il take it into consideration, how much gold is the t1 pvp, is gold easy to come by later on in the game think i have like 4g now, and yeah i went with the cleric, im level 25 now and not having any issues playing really well as im used to this sort of class just wasnt too sure with what stats to go for at first, awesome game though for a free one i cant see why anyone would pay to play with a game like this out there
On which stat to focus on, While Armor Pen and Crit Strike are "ok" do not neglect Power. This controls base damage for the TR.
I run at 5,000 Power, 3,000 Crit strike as my 2 primaries and I lay out significant amounts of damage with Lashing hitting in the 25k range without Lurkers running, just Stealth.
I have had 35k with Lurkers / Stealth on the dummies.
Of course, putting those numbers on a GF / GWF is another story as mitigation and defense factors in.
If I had to give a suggestion...
1. Power
2. Crit Strike
3. Armor Pen.
0
fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
With 4pc Swash, one hits 3k Recovery when 4pc buff is up, so extra recovery isn't needed.
So because you say I'm wrong, I am supposed to be wrong ?
Sorry, your word is not law.
I do significant amounts of damage with 5,000 power and 3,000 Crit Strike.
I have run tests with Armor Pen / Crit Strike build and My DPS actually goes down by 2k.
Power gives flat straight returns up until 5k, then the return slowly downgrades after.
Power handles base damage, The higher your base damage, naturally the higher your critical strike. Raising Critical Strike, thus, raises the damage inflicted upon Critical Strikes giving each Crit even more bang for your buck.
If I am wrong, then tell that to the GWF i can one shot from Stealth with 30k plus, Lashing Blades...
From Stealth I can even drop a Clerics health 50 % with one shot from Impact Shot.
Before you make assumptions, do some tests on the Preview server, like some of us other math and mechanic people have.
Thank you, have a nice day.
Edit: who said anything about recovery ?
Edit 2: I let my kill / death ratio from my matches speak for me on behalf of Power stat's significance.
when you are still lvling use power enchants that you find, it make the way to lvl60 easier and go for the cleric disciple companion.
then you have enough gold for the whole t1 pvp set without the daggers.
atm i have no idea what weapon enchanment i should use vorpal, tenebrous or flaming.
@todesfaelle gz to mod position, btw. /w me ingame
Hey man, thanks. I sent you a PM about this so expect that in-game PM later, bro. For the enchants, nothing beats Vorpal for that awesome burst. But I would have spare daggers with Plague Fire and Bilethorn just in case I encounter certain classes that need to have their damage mitigation lowered or Bilethorn for opposing rogues who tend to stay in stealth for an equally long time as I do. I learned this trick from a fellow rogue who uses the same build, he downright screwed up my rotations in that match and I saw the value of Bilethorn enchant after that.
schweet il take it into consideration, how much gold is the t1 pvp, is gold easy to come by later on in the game think i have like 4g now, and yeah i went with the cleric, im level 25 now and not having any issues playing really well as im used to this sort of class just wasnt too sure with what stats to go for at first, awesome game though for a free one i cant see why anyone would pay to play with a game like this out there
I'm not sure how much the T1 PVP set costs, but if you're playing in Mindflayer I'd happily give you an armor set for free. I don't have any more use for Glory since selling the PVP gear isn't so profitable in comparison to the time one spends to farm the needed glory for the set. If not, you can just farm the glory for it. If you have the time for PVP (and if you love PVP), once you hit 60 as a rogue, it'll be really easy to farm glory as each match can net you an average of 700 Glory per win. Even higher with the Arena PVP Event and if you score really well in that match. Just tell us if you have any other questions. We have a lot of bright minds who frequent the forum!
So because you say I'm wrong, I am supposed to be wrong ?
Sorry, your word is not law.
I do significant amounts of damage with 5,000 power and 3,000 Crit Strike.
I have run tests with Armor Pen / Crit Strike build and My DPS actually goes down by 2k.
Power gives flat straight returns up until 5k, then the return slowly downgrades after.
Power handles base damage, The higher your base damage, naturally the higher your critical strike. Raising Critical Strike, thus, raises the damage inflicted upon Critical Strikes giving each Crit even more bang for your buck.
If I am wrong, then tell that to the GWF i can one shot from Stealth with 30k plus, Lashing Blades...
From Stealth I can even drop a Clerics health 50 % with one shot from Impact Shot.
Before you make assumptions, do some tests on the Preview server, like some of us other math and mechanic people have.
Thank you, have a nice day.
Edit: who said anything about recovery ?
Edit 2: I let my kill / death ratio from my matches speak for me on behalf of Power stat's significance.
I'm pretty sure both of you are correct, though. But I can't really say for sure since I'm not the type to min/max. I can only imagine that prioritizing power and crit does so much for increased burst and flat damage, and prioritizing ArPen > Crit > Power gives players the ability to do near unmitigated powerful bursts. Both can be viable based on the type of play. I personally would like to see the feat and skill setup you guys use in order to maximize both stat priorities. I've been testing another burst setup for this stealth build a while back in PVP, didn't work out too well. So any and all information regarding as to how others max and even out their burst will definitely be helpful.
Let's all discuss and contribute and avoid arguments!
Also, I like having Recovery around to get Lurker's Assault much faster. Lurker's Assault gives us 10 seconds of crazy DPS, cuz I'm pretty sure all the skills we use in LA do not take us out of Stealth. And this can be helpful for a build like mine who likes to stay in stealth for as long as possible.
So far I'm liking Impact Shot, and tend to stay away from Lashing Blade due to the latency I experience. Sometimes I use Lashing Blade on the player, hear the sound effect that it hit, and sees that the player is unscathed at all. Might be because I don't live in the US.
Comments
Oh yeah I just read, man. I'll PM you in the game tomorrow! We could definitely use another TR around. We have an awful lack of TR's in the guild. So far there's only 3 of us in a 50-man guild.
Aw I thought I was amazing solo killing 'Arleon the Unforgiven'. LOL you put me to shame. You are one brave soul. I would love to see a video of you solo it *hint hint*
As for me, I've just hit level 30 and I'm having an obscene amount of fun with this build.
I do have a few questions for you though. You were absolutely right about the white youth gear, but do you use white weapons as well? Cause I've noticed there's quite a big difference in the base damage of white vs green weapons.
At level 30, I'm not sure where to start investing my paragon feats, I'm torn between Cunning Stalker and Underhanded Tactics. Which one did you choose?
Also, what enchantments do you plan to use with this build?
As always, please keep us updated on your progress. This is the best thread on the forums
That sounds like a plan.
and please upload the screenshots, I am sure, like myself, some are curious... I been debating doing this myself, but with the amount of pvp I do, My folder would get large, quickly.
On a side note, I would like to remind people. You are only as good as your team. A rogue does alot of damage and is great in 1v1 situations. But if your team cannot play their roles, even back capping becomes a effort in futility when the other teams 5 are steamrolling down toward you.
I really don;t want to post my build or the strat otherwise every other rogue out there jumps on the build and then either your build or mine becomes the "Cookie Cutter" norm... Having a variety of play styles keeps a game healthy and keeps the PvP healthy as well...
I have had games where I have finished with 20 + kills and 0 deaths
..and I have had games where I die more than I kill...
All depends on what I am facing, and who is on my team.
Currently exploring premade groups and working with some people in strats as a group, as a whole, instead of tuning Svetlana at the moment.
I am happy with where she sits. Will she need more tuning ? Of course...
All in time...
I am sure we will meet again on the field soon enough and we can put the 2 builds to test.
AHHH, darn it... I'm sorry I wasn't more specific earlier on about the gear. For your daggers, absolutely DO NOT use white common stuff LOL, and do not care about if they have regen on them. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS look for whatever has the biggest base damage numbers and do not give a HAMSTER about what kind of stats are on them until you are level 60. This typically means you will be hopefully rolling with blues whenever possible, and occasionally dipping into the greens when you find something better than the blue daggers you've been using.
For the paragon feats, I would start with Cunning stalker and get to sneaky stabber 5/5 ASAP because that's when you can truly start to see the first form of permastealth by using Gloaming Cut on trash mobs. I'm not kidding about this... you can literally kill 1000 trash mobs in one stealth with 5/5 sneaky stabber, as long as you can one-shot them enough of the time, and that's one of the things that our STR+CHA build is going to be really good at. Once you can mostly eliminate trash mobs from the tactical picture, then the problem solving gets easier as you tackle harder and harder dungeons. As an example, in my failed run at LotMD, it was trash mobs who caused me to fail. Not the boss... the trash.
For enchantments, I'm not even trying to think about that yet LOL I'm just collecting as many as I can and fusing my hiney off.
Addendum: the current thinking for runes is silvery for the recharge, with dark for utility (speed), and I'm guessing that the final analysis will yield this to be the best way to kit out the Saboteur as well.
PS good job on getting to 30, klixan!
PPS I have a bunch of leftover seals of the lion I can't use anymore... I would love to mail you a shiny new set of blue level 32 daggers, if you want them.
You got it, man. I'll upload the screenies on a photo hosting site as soon as I get home from work.
On the topic of 20 kills and 0 deaths, I have a similar screenie right here. We have a bot in our team as well so it made things a tad harder since I usually have 2 - 3 opponents against me in the opponent's tower during this match.
This is an above average kill rate I can get so far, though. Matches usually do not last longer than 20 minutes in my experience to the point where I can get more than 25+ kills. On average I can get 15+ kills. But that's about it. DPS burst rogues do better than me in terms of damage, but in terms of survivability I tend to be able to out-survive other rogues. I'll post the screenies later, bro. It has some losses on it as well so I'm pretty sure we'd have a lot of things we can assess from them. Feel free to share some of your screenies and experiences as well! I actually love seeing those types of screenies and watching PVP matches. A single picture can tell a lot about how the match went in my opinion, based on the numbers presented on the PVP stats.
I'm excited to be able to play with you again bro. I remember all the good people I faced before so I am extra wary whenever I see their names in the player roster in the PVP match.
But then, by that time Feywild will be out, with hopefully better gameplay for all classes.
Bummer! I would love to have your shiny blue daggers, but I'm on the Dragon server
Ah well, no matter, if I don't have enough seals, then I'll buy something off the AH. But thanks for the clarification about the daggers, cause I really didn't think you'd be using white stuff.
As for enchantments, I agree with you, I don't plan to use any until end game either. So far I've been saving Silvery (Recovery), Dark (Movement) and Azure (Defense), glad to see I'm on the right track
Well, I'm off to Helm's Hold tonight, let's see if I can keep my death free record.
It was The Gnarled Man (one of the Barrow Lords) in Ebon Downs that got me. It was my own silly fault though, I didn't notice the red circle at my feet, and by the time I did, he'd sucked the life out of me.
Still, I'm absolutely loving this build, it's the best character I've played so far.
I will make these the 2 final screenshot posts regarding scores, I feel it is a bit too e-peenish... =/
Caszar also runs the same build as me and is my partner in crime.
One could hope
Arcanawolf, I assure you that you'll have fun leveling up as a Stealth TR.
I'm happy you're having a good experience with the build so far. One more area to look forward to in terms of powerful mobs would be Rothe Valley.
Driders. They screw us up. And the Intellect Devourers in the Dread Vault boss room, they can also see us in stealth.
LOL. Thanks once more! It's an honor for me to be part of the mod team that helps keep things in order and I assure everyone that I'll do my best and remain a humble servant to the community I love.
Thanks, man! I'm still learning the ropes and hopefully I can become as efficient as my superior mods soon. It takes some time and practice that's for sure.
Lichlament! Great wins man. I personally like win #3. I think I know how you did it because I tend to do the same from time to time whenever I see that the opponents are squishy (TR, DC, CW). Ride a horse, rush to opponent's tower, kill opponents who are in there via Lurker's Assault + Impact Shot and Lashing Blade. The burst is just incredible and the best part is when they're riding horses. I have some screenies of those similar wins myself. Check these out man.
I have others in my older screenies but these are some of the most recent matches which ended up with the opponents leaving in the beginning of the match due to them not being able to capture tower 2 and losing their own tower. I like it when the opponents do not quit, however. The challenge is more exciting that way.
Keep those screenies coming, man. The numbers on the PVP stats tend to tell the whole story and I'm liking what I'm seeing.
I tend to switch powers often. Burst in the beginning of the match, max stealth once I don't have a full AP bar, and go back to burst setup whenever I have a full AP bar. This way I get to maximize the effects of having executioner and maximized stealth. I just hate it when I'm using Max Stealth and the opponent has Path of the Blades or Time Steal. Even worse when I'm using Lurker's Assault and the opposing TR uses a Smoke Bomb. I have my limitations and it tends to get me killed, those perfect counters.
I am with you, on that.
When the match loads up I open the scoreboard to see what I am up against and also hit " O " and click on "Find Person" tab, the default shows you who is in zone.
I hurry and try to set my powers to what I think I may face.
If I get any surprises or see how the match plays out initially, I will change on the fly or after a first death, Like if dealing with a Stealth build I wasn't aware about.
After so many matches you start knowing who carries what build, since there is only a handful to choose from.
Smoke bomb radius I have found to be too small and not the effectiveness to deal with a stealth rogue, as it's "live" time is very short.
Path of the blades is solid as is Blitz ...
Also.. A little trick... I have noticed sometimes ( not always ) ... Bait and Switch dummy will face the direction of a stealthed rogue.
Good for knowing where they are moving if your looking for a more direct attack, or preparing to Lashing Blade them when they get in close. Also standing beside the Bait and Switch dummy forces the opponents targeting onto the dummy...and their first and second attacks from stealth are wasted 9 times out of 10.
I had more screens saved but didn't want to post them. I had one screen saved where I Finished 12 / 10, which I wanted to use to point out the results one will encounter when dealing with poor team play.
Edit: I wanted to point out in a few of those matches you went against BoT's... I always try to make a note if a BoT is in the match as it cheapens the game.
rohnir2012 and susanmii are 2 notorious bots...
Thanks a bunch, Klixan! I appreciate it!
I guess we have something in common whenever we start a match. I always, always hit "x" first to see the scoreboard as well, so I can analyze what I should expect before the match starts and slot the appropriate powers.
At the start of matches, I always make it a point that if the opponents have 2 CW or DC in their team, I setup Bait and Switch, Lashing Blade and Impact Shot. Provided I have a full AP bar that is, which every PVP-er should have before they start a match in my opinion. 1 Lurker's Assault can kill at least 3 soft classes with Lashing Blade, Impact Shot and Cloud of Steel. The burst capabilities of Executioner is just OP. Brutal Backstab makes everything so much easier thanks to the added crit severity. If the opponents have really beefy classes, I just setup my char for Max Stealth which is Bait and Switch, Shadow Strike and Impossible to Catch. If played right, I can stay in stealth for as long as 30 seconds and hold one position for my team within that time span and have my opponents guess where I am as they try to hit me with at-wills, and that amount is doubled with the use of Lurker's Assault as the cooldowns refresh as soon as Lurker's Assault ends.
And bro I'm actually using the same trick for the Bait and Switch skill. Sometimes I find beast opponents that can tell where I am based on the direction where my dummy is facing. So what I tend to do nowadays is to face another direction before using BaS to throw an analytic opponent off, provided that I have enough time to do it.
The troublesome opponents in my opinion are other Stealth TR's. They tend to take me by surprise since I do not encounter much of them. But people like Kyudo from our own server who has a similar stealth build is just scary to face. I'm pretty undergeared, no Skulker Set, epic shirt/pants or Soulforged yet so it's hard to face up against beast well-geared TR's like Kyudo, Quescia and Nyu. I remember the names of all the opponents I've had trouble with before. I put 1 point on Path of the Blades just to assist me from putting other Stealth TR's out of Stealth. I have yet to encounter a permastealth build in Mindflayer, however.
You are correct, Demonizer. So far the stats in which you want to prioritize from gear are Crit > ArPen > Recovery. And it would be best if you put Silvery Enchants on your Offense Slots for added Recovery. More Recovery = faster AP Regen and faster skill cooldown, meaning you'll have a lot more room for error just in case you slip up somewhere in the middle of the rotation.
I hope you can read this soon.
then you have enough gold for the whole t1 pvp set without the daggers.
atm i have no idea what weapon enchanment i should use vorpal, tenebrous or flaming.
@todesfaelle gz to mod position, btw. /w me ingame
I run at 5,000 Power, 3,000 Crit strike as my 2 primaries and I lay out significant amounts of damage with Lashing hitting in the 25k range without Lurkers running, just Stealth.
I have had 35k with Lurkers / Stealth on the dummies.
Of course, putting those numbers on a GF / GWF is another story as mitigation and defense factors in.
If I had to give a suggestion...
1. Power
2. Crit Strike
3. Armor Pen.
Armor Pen (until softcap) > Crit (until softcap) > Power.
With 4pc Swash, one hits 3k Recovery when 4pc buff is up, so extra recovery isn't needed.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
So because you say I'm wrong, I am supposed to be wrong ?
Sorry, your word is not law.
I do significant amounts of damage with 5,000 power and 3,000 Crit Strike.
I have run tests with Armor Pen / Crit Strike build and My DPS actually goes down by 2k.
Power gives flat straight returns up until 5k, then the return slowly downgrades after.
Power handles base damage, The higher your base damage, naturally the higher your critical strike. Raising Critical Strike, thus, raises the damage inflicted upon Critical Strikes giving each Crit even more bang for your buck.
If I am wrong, then tell that to the GWF i can one shot from Stealth with 30k plus, Lashing Blades...
From Stealth I can even drop a Clerics health 50 % with one shot from Impact Shot.
Before you make assumptions, do some tests on the Preview server, like some of us other math and mechanic people have.
Thank you, have a nice day.
Edit: who said anything about recovery ?
Edit 2: I let my kill / death ratio from my matches speak for me on behalf of Power stat's significance.
Hey man, thanks. I sent you a PM about this so expect that in-game PM later, bro.
I'm not sure how much the T1 PVP set costs, but if you're playing in Mindflayer I'd happily give you an armor set for free. I don't have any more use for Glory since selling the PVP gear isn't so profitable in comparison to the time one spends to farm the needed glory for the set. If not, you can just farm the glory for it. If you have the time for PVP (and if you love PVP), once you hit 60 as a rogue, it'll be really easy to farm glory as each match can net you an average of 700 Glory per win. Even higher with the Arena PVP Event and if you score really well in that match. Just tell us if you have any other questions.
I'm pretty sure both of you are correct, though. But I can't really say for sure since I'm not the type to min/max. I can only imagine that prioritizing power and crit does so much for increased burst and flat damage, and prioritizing ArPen > Crit > Power gives players the ability to do near unmitigated powerful bursts. Both can be viable based on the type of play. I personally would like to see the feat and skill setup you guys use in order to maximize both stat priorities.
Let's all discuss and contribute and avoid arguments!
Also, I like having Recovery around to get Lurker's Assault much faster. Lurker's Assault gives us 10 seconds of crazy DPS, cuz I'm pretty sure all the skills we use in LA do not take us out of Stealth. And this can be helpful for a build like mine who likes to stay in stealth for as long as possible.
So far I'm liking Impact Shot, and tend to stay away from Lashing Blade due to the latency I experience. Sometimes I use Lashing Blade on the player, hear the sound effect that it hit, and sees that the player is unscathed at all. Might be because I don't live in the US.