Blood bath is scary in 1 vs 1 situations. Since you are untargetable and un CC'able
Lurker assault can be stopped with a simple smoke bomb. That's why it isn't preferred in 1 vs 1 against a class that can knock you off...(GF can knock you off even if you are stealthed btw)
You have alot to learn about rogues.
Just when I thought holier-than-thou players couldn't sound any stupider, you make this post.
Bloodbath? This is a rookie move.
Lurkers is negated by smoke bomb? Not if you don't suck it isn't.
Just when I thought holier-than-thou players couldn't sound any stupider, you make this post.
Bloodbath? This is a rookie move.
Lurkers is negated by smoke bomb? Not if you don't suck it isn't.
8k+ on 1 target per hit is a rookie move? *face palm*
try evading 2 smoke bombs being planted in random directions while you are right in the middle of a fight.
You just sound like an ignorant stuck up nothing more. I never said Lurkers are bad, but using a limited time daily that is highly dependent on stealth and can get cancelled easily against a character that can knock you off even without being able to see you? is seriously <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
8k+ on 1 target per hit is a rookie move? *face palm*
try evading 2 smoke bombs being planted in random directions while you are right in the middle of a fight.
You just sound like an ignorant stuck up nothing more. I never said Lurkers are bad, but using a limited time daily that is highly dependent on stealth and can get cancelled easily against a character that can knock you off even without being able to see you? is seriously <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
limited time of use (lurkers) > limited one use (bloodbath)
fairly simple math to understand.
Ignorant? Hardly. I deal with the situations you mention on a regular basis and never have to leave lurkers unless _I_ make a mistake. I suggest you open your mind before flaming others and understanding your tactics could use some improvement.
As a GF, I can definitely say my build(*) is not OP in PvP. Everyone can dodge faster than I can move into range and once a GF is stunned or dazed or held he is going to die.
limited time of use (lurkers) > limited one use (bloodbath)
fairly simple math to understand.
Ignorant? Hardly. I deal with the situations you mention on a regular basis and never have to leave lurkers unless _I_ make a mistake. I suggest you open your mind before flaming others and understanding your tactics could use some improvement.
You definitely missed the point of blood bath :
1- it cant be stopped.
2- you are untargetable.
3- Deals massive damage every tick on single target or even 2 targets.
4- Follows the target if he tries to run.
Lurker assault:
1- You need to approach the target, in order to hit them ( unless you are lucky and still got your 12 daggers)
2- stealth can still be spotted, if you are under stealth you can still be CC'ed
3- Vulnerable to smoke bombs.
Lurker surpasses blood bath when it comes to mass fights, in this case lurker is way better since you can 1/2 shot enemies while they are busy hitting other players
About flaming, you are the one who came here calling me stupid. Don't get butt hurt for calling you a stuck up then.
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As a GF, I can definitely say my build(*) is not OP in PvP. Everyone can dodge faster than I can move into range and once a GF is stunned or dazed or held he is going to die.
3- Deals massive damage every tick on single target or even 2 targets.
4- Follows the target if he tries to run.
Lurker assault:
1- You need to approach the target, in order to hit them ( unless you are lucky and still got your 12 daggers)
2- stealth can still be spotted, if you are under stealth you can still be CC'ed
3- Vulnerable to smoke bombs.
Lurker surpasses blood bath when it comes to mass fights, in this case lurker is way better since you can 1/2 shot enemies while they are busy hitting other players
About flaming, you are the one who came here calling me stupid. Don't get butt hurt for calling you a stuck up then.
1. It still will never do more damage than lurkers for me. That theory is supported by hard data.
2. 'Untargetable' means very little if you sacrifice a huge damage uptick for it.
3. Again, its not going to outdamage a big lurker's hit or the last few hits from lurkers + ranged to kill a running foe. Killing people takes big burst damage, and for that reason lurkers > bloodbath.
4. You have other skills that do this.
1. Luck has nothing to do with it but you contradict your own point?
2. sure and that shouldn't matter; not always
3. again, not always
Then you again reference lurkers being better so I am not sure why you are arguing a point I don't think even you truly believe. Is bloodbath great for that one situation where you have 2 perma stealth rogues using smoke bombs? Sure. Thats like maybe 1 use case out of 100. Every other scenario lurkers is the better choice. Thats why I called you stupid, because you were passing off what I feel is misinfo while thumbing your nose at another player.
No one is butthurt...you are mad and arguing bloodbath is better than lurkers which anyone knows is ridiculous outside perhaps one use case out of 100.
1. It still will never do more damage than lurkers for me. That theory is supported by hard data.
2. 'Untargetable' means very little if you sacrifice a huge damage uptick for it.
3. Again, its not going to outdamage a big lurker's hit or the last few hits from lurkers + ranged to kill a running foe. Killing people takes big burst damage, and for that reason lurkers > bloodbath.
4. You have other skills that do this.
1. Luck has nothing to do with it but you contradict your own point?
2. sure and that shouldn't matter; not always
3. again, not always
Then you again reference lurkers being better so I am not sure why you are arguing a point I don't think even you truly believe. Is bloodbath great for that one situation where you have 2 perma stealth rogues using smoke bombs? Sure. Thats like maybe 1 use case out of 100. Every other scenario lurkers is the better choice. Thats why I called you stupid, because you were passing off what I feel is misinfo while thumbing your nose at another player.
No one is butthurt...you are mad and arguing bloodbath is better than lurkers which anyone knows is ridiculous outside perhaps one use case out of 100.
You prefer damage out put, where i prefer effectiveness and entirely confuse my enemy ( i'm talking about 1 vs 1 / 2vs1 situations).
As you said " Lurker is not "always" stoppable" while i'm saying that Blood bath is IMPOSSIBLE to stop. Even if you sacrifice some damage , you will guarantee a 1 vs 1 domination and making your enemy run around like headless chicken.
About that other player, he is a hopeless case as he needs a daily to kill a GF.
We have different perspectives of how we can kill our enemies, you prefer "surprise fool , *34k lashing blade*"
While i prefer " MUAHAHAHAHA *slash* *slash* *slash*.
In the end, the enemy is dead . i'm just arguing that my way can be more effective and safer when it comes to 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1.
Lil tip: Don't call people stupid then complain when they flame you back.
Guardians are over powered. I'm not going to bore everyone to death with the exact science behind all this data. As many of you know they are able to block an insane amount of damage, at the same time DPS like a rouge. We all know a tweak is needed. I'd like an official response from the dev's
On just how they plan on fixing this problem into a solution.
Cause rogues always want to talk... but you can hard counter a perma stealth now.
Perma-stealth only works with noobs. If you use that tactic only have lazing strike as damage encounter. Sly Flourish has 12 charges, so in the beggining, the rogue can make damage, but later is just a distraction. The rogue is more dangerous with others skills, but i dont gonna say them xD. Whatever, the rogue is squishy, so there is no excuse for no kill him. Of couse, they gonna kill too, they are assasins, what do you expect?
Is really hard for a rogue kill a GF, cause if the GF(unless me) attack first, they gonna let you very injured. But rogue has the weapons to kill the GF, just discover them.
PD: I didnt say this always, but now, the game is really close to be completly balance, unless in pvp, All have weapons, even the DC. But for see this you need play several classes.
Perma-stealth only works with noobs. If you use that tactic only have lazing strike as damage encounter. Sly Flourish has 12 charges, so in the beggining, the rogue can make damage, but later is just a distraction. The rogue is more dangerous with others skills, but i dont gonna say them xD. Whatever, the rogue is squishy, so there is no excuse for no kill him. Of couse, they gonna kill too, they are assasins, what do you expect?
Is really hard for a rogue kill a GF, cause if the GF(unless me) attack first, they gonna let you very injured. But rogue has the weapons to kill the GF, just discover them.
PD: I didnt say this always, but now, the game is really close to be completly balance, unless in pvp, All have weapons, even the DC. But for see this you need play several classes.
Perma stealth has no place in PvP so I hard counter it with clicking /leave. They get no glory its a new movement that owns them 100% of the time. I am proud that many players are now using this tactic to own them.
Guardians are over powered. I'm not going to bore everyone to death with the exact science behind all this data. As many of you know they are able to block an insane amount of damage, at the same time DPS like a rouge. We all know a tweak is needed. I'd like an official response from the dev's
On just how they plan on fixing this problem into a solution.
I am a TR.
Don't nerfed them as I don't like to play a game without a Challenge, I'm looking forward that they boost Cleric but don't nerf other class.
If I killed a CW and DC, i just don't have satisfaction. (Don't mean to all CW/DC players, there are those CW who were very good)
Fighting a GWF and GF, that is more i like it.
To TS: Learn to Play your toon, it would be boring if you can one hit everything.
If you still don't figure out to play your toon, reroll.
There's three ways to do things, the right way, the wrong way and the way that I do it.
Guardians are over powered. I'm not going to bore everyone to death with the exact science behind all this data. As many of you know they are able to block an insane amount of damage, at the same time DPS like a rouge. We all know a tweak is needed. I'd like an official response from the dev's
On just how they plan on fixing this problem into a solution.
Lets turn the story around a bit and support claims with FACTS.
In this game Rogues can:
1 main tank end game bosses
2 1 shot tanks in secs
3 perma stealth
4 do decent ranged(!) dmg
In this game mages can:
1 mass cc lock for several secs and deal dmg
2 dodge aka teleport
3 deal very fast ranged dmg = stacked tenebrous dmg spikes? + perma 45- dmg resistance with plague fire?
5 can duel farm or solo if there good end game with there op ccs and feel so uber about it
Now GFW are the next op clas out there for obvious reasons stundlock , fast attacks that can be used to perma debuff resistance etc etc and a nice god mode to stuck with a soulforged......
Clerics are a utility class and the hold the shortest stick on pvp they only good about clerics is they can self heal and everyone on there team with a pair of brains try to keep them alive though there dmg needs a serius buff
Finnaly this is a game where economy is vital , TRs CWs and DCs got a HUGE headstart by farming end game for a loong time aka fast mounts (win factor n1 on pvp on this game) aka buffed gear with high lvl stones aka greater or perfect vorpals and soulforges .....
etc etc etc.......
PS. Those are FACTS its not QQ nerf there FACTS.
Have a nice day Lykourgos GF beholder Full protector spec.
Now GFW are the next op clas out there for obvious reasons stundlock , fast attacks that can be used to perma debuff resistance etc etc and a nice god mode to stuck with a soulforged......
You know PvP in this game is a team venture if anyone tries to perma stun one of your team mates its probably a good idea to intervene and break the cycle.
What you’re saying now: “Tanks are overpowered, they block an insane amount of damage!”
What you’ll be saying after the patch you so desperately want: “Dungeons are now unrunnable, tanks can’t block enough damage!”
You must be kiddin, if they get nerfed there won't be any tanks they'll all reroll as rogues or GWFs the only ones that might stick around are the ones that do it for good friends and tough it out.
GFs and DCs a the most gimped class by far when it come to buffs from enchands and heres why:
Any class with fast attacks > slow atacks , when it comes to debuffing ,random spike dmg aka plague fire , tenebrous (faster and higher number of attacks = far more procs) and this is the most op feature of TRs CWs and GWFs hands down.
The thing is players have realise it and use it and just devaste with those classes pvp and pve wise cause of the fast - attack - proc rate plus they get the rest class buffs.
The most op feature atm is fast attacks & tenebrous , plague etc etc and to the list of the ideal class to utilise this feature GFs and DCs are perma down to the list.
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ramnyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited July 2013
I hear this alot. Some guy gets owned by, in this case, a GF, and imidietaly comes to Forums to QQ how OP they are.
Something needs to be done. Maybe my halfling deflection + pvp gear + deflection feats might actually give me a chance against PLATE wearing 2H wielding PERMA STUNNING super sprinting character..
****in for real.
Maybe don't nerf them.. but give other classes SOME kind of way out of it. Why even bother fighting them? they can hold the flag long enough for the others to spawn 2x and then still kill you.
You would think a halfling rogue could outrun a plate wearing guardian... WRONG.
OP keeps on creating dumb threads - maybe he should learn to play instead.
Also if, you're a GWF and complain about being on ground all the time - then you can't play. That's simple. There are just 2 knockdowns on GF. Surge shows red square and bullrush has very small range. Sure, if you run up to a GF unprepared - expect to be bullrushed.
Most of the time GWFs are immune to knockdown and regenerate temporary hp like Gods. Oh - and then GWF can stun lock and burst through 30k hp... So learn to play.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2013
Eh, I'd just be happy if I could avoid being on my rear end morning, noon, and night against a Guardian Fighter as a Devoted Cleric.
I don't mind their damage...I just mind that as a cleric I can't do anything against the CC Chain a Guardian Fighter has.
"Tenacity" anybody? Chances to resist/reduce CC? Honestly I feel that would improve the balance of the entire system more so than adjusting each power one by one to the point that they are no longer effective.
Just about all of the PVP complaints I have seen is "this one class own me one on one" when PVP is a team exercise in communication. What will happen when guardian gets nerfed due to all the complaining is they wont be ale to function as well in a team, and they will be the new "do not want" class in other aspects of the game. This happened to GWF early on, too bad people memories about previous nerfs are 10 days long.
Comments
Just when I thought holier-than-thou players couldn't sound any stupider, you make this post.
Bloodbath? This is a rookie move.
Lurkers is negated by smoke bomb? Not if you don't suck it isn't.
8k+ on 1 target per hit is a rookie move? *face palm*
try evading 2 smoke bombs being planted in random directions while you are right in the middle of a fight.
You just sound like an ignorant stuck up nothing more. I never said Lurkers are bad, but using a limited time daily that is highly dependent on stealth and can get cancelled easily against a character that can knock you off even without being able to see you? is seriously <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
You do not need a tank for the hardest content in the game. The class shares, to a degree, the niche of the GWF.
limited time of use (lurkers) > limited one use (bloodbath)
fairly simple math to understand.
Ignorant? Hardly. I deal with the situations you mention on a regular basis and never have to leave lurkers unless _I_ make a mistake. I suggest you open your mind before flaming others and understanding your tactics could use some improvement.
Tank and pushback not a DPS GF
You definitely missed the point of blood bath :
1- it cant be stopped.
2- you are untargetable.
3- Deals massive damage every tick on single target or even 2 targets.
4- Follows the target if he tries to run.
Lurker assault:
1- You need to approach the target, in order to hit them ( unless you are lucky and still got your 12 daggers)
2- stealth can still be spotted, if you are under stealth you can still be CC'ed
3- Vulnerable to smoke bombs.
Lurker surpasses blood bath when it comes to mass fights, in this case lurker is way better since you can 1/2 shot enemies while they are busy hitting other players
About flaming, you are the one who came here calling me stupid. Don't get butt hurt for calling you a stuck up then.
Stop using a PVE spec in PVP ?
It's not like you actually need tank spec in any instance.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
1. It still will never do more damage than lurkers for me. That theory is supported by hard data.
2. 'Untargetable' means very little if you sacrifice a huge damage uptick for it.
3. Again, its not going to outdamage a big lurker's hit or the last few hits from lurkers + ranged to kill a running foe. Killing people takes big burst damage, and for that reason lurkers > bloodbath.
4. You have other skills that do this.
1. Luck has nothing to do with it but you contradict your own point?
2. sure and that shouldn't matter; not always
3. again, not always
Then you again reference lurkers being better so I am not sure why you are arguing a point I don't think even you truly believe. Is bloodbath great for that one situation where you have 2 perma stealth rogues using smoke bombs? Sure. Thats like maybe 1 use case out of 100. Every other scenario lurkers is the better choice. Thats why I called you stupid, because you were passing off what I feel is misinfo while thumbing your nose at another player.
No one is butthurt...you are mad and arguing bloodbath is better than lurkers which anyone knows is ridiculous outside perhaps one use case out of 100.
You prefer damage out put, where i prefer effectiveness and entirely confuse my enemy ( i'm talking about 1 vs 1 / 2vs1 situations).
As you said " Lurker is not "always" stoppable" while i'm saying that Blood bath is IMPOSSIBLE to stop. Even if you sacrifice some damage , you will guarantee a 1 vs 1 domination and making your enemy run around like headless chicken.
About that other player, he is a hopeless case as he needs a daily to kill a GF.
We have different perspectives of how we can kill our enemies, you prefer "surprise fool , *34k lashing blade*"
While i prefer " MUAHAHAHAHA *slash* *slash* *slash*.
In the end, the enemy is dead . i'm just arguing that my way can be more effective and safer when it comes to 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1.
Lil tip: Don't call people stupid then complain when they flame you back.
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/073/f/d/rage_comic__17__why_not_do_both__by_backoffitachiismine-d5y19mj.png
IF i could use both at the same time , oh boy , i cant imagine the view
Btw, GF is OP WAH wah wah!!!
TSDR
ITT: more baddies who don't know their classes.
Ewwwww.....I can hard counter that...
Cause rogues always want to talk... but you can hard counter a perma stealth now.
Perma-stealth only works with noobs. If you use that tactic only have lazing strike as damage encounter. Sly Flourish has 12 charges, so in the beggining, the rogue can make damage, but later is just a distraction. The rogue is more dangerous with others skills, but i dont gonna say them xD. Whatever, the rogue is squishy, so there is no excuse for no kill him. Of couse, they gonna kill too, they are assasins, what do you expect?
Is really hard for a rogue kill a GF, cause if the GF(unless me) attack first, they gonna let you very injured. But rogue has the weapons to kill the GF, just discover them.
PD: I didnt say this always, but now, the game is really close to be completly balance, unless in pvp, All have weapons, even the DC. But for see this you need play several classes.
Perma stealth has no place in PvP so I hard counter it with clicking /leave. They get no glory its a new movement that owns them 100% of the time. I am proud that many players are now using this tactic to own them.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Neverwinter Forum Rules of Conduct ~Moderation Team
I am a TR.
Don't nerfed them as I don't like to play a game without a Challenge, I'm looking forward that they boost Cleric but don't nerf other class.
If I killed a CW and DC, i just don't have satisfaction. (Don't mean to all CW/DC players, there are those CW who were very good)
Fighting a GWF and GF, that is more i like it.
To TS: Learn to Play your toon, it would be boring if you can one hit everything.
If you still don't figure out to play your toon, reroll.
In this game Rogues can:
1 main tank end game bosses
2 1 shot tanks in secs
3 perma stealth
4 do decent ranged(!) dmg
In this game mages can:
1 mass cc lock for several secs and deal dmg
2 dodge aka teleport
3 deal very fast ranged dmg = stacked tenebrous dmg spikes? + perma 45- dmg resistance with plague fire?
5 can duel farm or solo if there good end game with there op ccs and feel so uber about it
Now GFW are the next op clas out there for obvious reasons stundlock , fast attacks that can be used to perma debuff resistance etc etc and a nice god mode to stuck with a soulforged......
Clerics are a utility class and the hold the shortest stick on pvp they only good about clerics is they can self heal and everyone on there team with a pair of brains try to keep them alive though there dmg needs a serius buff
Finnaly this is a game where economy is vital , TRs CWs and DCs got a HUGE headstart by farming end game for a loong time aka fast mounts (win factor n1 on pvp on this game) aka buffed gear with high lvl stones aka greater or perfect vorpals and soulforges .....
etc etc etc.......
PS. Those are FACTS its not QQ nerf there FACTS.
Have a nice day Lykourgos GF beholder Full protector spec.
What you’ll be saying after the patch you so desperately want: “Dungeons are now unrunnable, tanks can’t block enough damage!”
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
You must be kiddin, if they get nerfed there won't be any tanks they'll all reroll as rogues or GWFs the only ones that might stick around are the ones that do it for good friends and tough it out.
Any class with fast attacks > slow atacks , when it comes to debuffing ,random spike dmg aka plague fire , tenebrous (faster and higher number of attacks = far more procs) and this is the most op feature of TRs CWs and GWFs hands down.
The thing is players have realise it and use it and just devaste with those classes pvp and pve wise cause of the fast - attack - proc rate plus they get the rest class buffs.
The most op feature atm is fast attacks & tenebrous , plague etc etc and to the list of the ideal class to utilise this feature GFs and DCs are perma down to the list.
****in for real.
Maybe don't nerf them.. but give other classes SOME kind of way out of it. Why even bother fighting them? they can hold the flag long enough for the others to spawn 2x and then still kill you.
You would think a halfling rogue could outrun a plate wearing guardian... WRONG.
Not to QQ, but c'mon.
Also if, you're a GWF and complain about being on ground all the time - then you can't play. That's simple. There are just 2 knockdowns on GF. Surge shows red square and bullrush has very small range. Sure, if you run up to a GF unprepared - expect to be bullrushed.
Most of the time GWFs are immune to knockdown and regenerate temporary hp like Gods. Oh - and then GWF can stun lock and burst through 30k hp... So learn to play.
I don't mind their damage...I just mind that as a cleric I can't do anything against the CC Chain a Guardian Fighter has.
"Tenacity" anybody? Chances to resist/reduce CC? Honestly I feel that would improve the balance of the entire system more so than adjusting each power one by one to the point that they are no longer effective.