When it doesnt effect me at all in any part of my life then no it doesnt bother me. Why should I get my jimmies all rustled over something I wont be able to change?
An example Xbox One, they added new features that make it possible to trade games already used to your friends but you had to be on that friends buddy list for 30 days. Second thing, one you transferred it. It could only be done once. The second owner cannot resell it.
They also had a feature that required you have xbox one to check if your internet was online once per day.
Many would say, what point am I trying to make. Well Xbox one recently dumped both of their change. Why, may be the question you may ask. In business sense they benefited them and they looked to make a larger amount of money.
Its because people let their voices be heard. They were so vocal, pushing back with threats they would go to PS4. The company had no choice but to dump the unpopular choices. The same with Netflix which was tempted to cut its service in two. One of internet streaming, the rest for delivering DVDS.
They ended up (Netflix)losing a massive amount of customers. Their CEO ended up taking a pay cut, their image was badly damaged.
I have given you two examples of company's trying to increase their profits through unpopular means, and the reaction to that. Now to people who supported this game. We paid 200 dollars for (Hero of the North) however we were mislead.
Each week they promised it would end soon, pushed back by another month. The open beta lasted for over a month. Now they are alive they took out founders title, which almost no one cares about and kept the item on sale in order to increase profits.
The people who are against this, feel mislead. All other MMO's that I have ever been apart of at launch. Including Rift, TOR, etc, GW2, they all promised bags of goodies. This MMO has set the bar as the most expensive out of any other.
The difference from them and this one, are two important things. One is the price. CE( Collectors Edition from TOR 150) this company has most expensive price at 200 dollar for starter pack. The second thing that its still there. All other companies taken out pre orders specials after launch.
Yet the starter pack still remains there for sole purpose of taking even more money when they are more then perfectly healthy maintain money from Zen. It just seems a tad excessive. We the customers understand that company's are corporation and they need profits. Yet it feels like they mislead us and amount they're ranking is, isn't purely from Zen.
because That tends to be exactly why unethical business practices or unethical government practices get going. Nobody bothers to get off their *** and oppose them, so they becomne the new norm.
I think the forums have quite enough Norma Rae's...and labeling something unethical doesn't necessarily make it so.
No, but people not opening their wallet to every single new offer that uses the word "free" or "exclusive" will change that. These habits of not opening ones wallet for such things come at the expense of having done so before and having the buzzword in the agreement not adhered to. Fool me once and all that fun stuff...
Also take into account your "companies have been doing this for years" statement - you see, many people are here hoping this new game doesnt start utilizing the bad habbits from other games that they stopped playing, in part because those other games "have been doing this for years".
People are not saying that they are selling things that are too similar, they are saying that they sold "limited time only" exclusive items that are no longer exclusive or limited time only.
I agree they can speak with their wallets and have their voice heard, but I still have to disagree on the limited time only exclusive items. Did they state what of the pack of exclusive, or just the entire pack? Was it stated that the founders title was the limited time only part or are people just butt hurt because there are more spiders running around now.
An example Xbox One, they added new features that make it possible to trade games already used to your friends but you had to be on that friends buddy list for 30 days. Second thing, one you transferred it. It could only be done once. The second owner cannot resell it. <snip> ... </snip>
Yet the starter pack still remains there for sole purpose of taking even more money when they are more then perfectly healthy maintain money from Zen. It just seems a tad excessive. We the customers understand that company's are corporation and they need profits. Yet it feels like they mislead us and amount they're ranking is, isn't purely from Zen.
That was a lot to type and I can see you are passionate about this. Let us start with your first two analogies.
The XBox One. If I had owned one and those features were in it would directly effect me so I would care and be just as up in arms as everyone else. Not only that but it would impact me in such a way that I would not have fun playing the entire system anymore.
Netflix now. I actually was a member when this change went through, and so it did effect me. I was upset enough to let them know I would no longer be using their service and I canceled. That change effected me so I spoke with something they would actually notice, my money.
Then we get into your correlation with Collectors Editions and I can see where you are coming from, but it is still in a video game setting. So I have to ask. How does it adversely effect you in such a way that them selling the same packs makes you not want to play? Is it just that you could have waited longer to spend the same $200 you already spent? Do you not like seeing more people with the Spider Mounts or Drow Race? Or is it just your "ethics"
I agree they can speak with their wallets and have their voice heard, but I still have to disagree on the limited time only exclusive items. Did they state what of the pack of exclusive, or just the entire pack? Was it stated that the founders title was the limited time only part or are people just butt hurt because there are more spiders running around now.
they pretty much used vague language to imply the entire pack was exclusive, then took out the founders title and legally speaking, theyre fine and dandy.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
That was a lot to type and I can see you are passionate about this. Let us start with your first two analogies.
The XBox One. If I had owned one and those features were in it would directly effect me so I would care and be just as up in arms as everyone else. Not only that but it would impact me in such a way that I would not have fun playing the entire system anymore.
Netflix now. I actually was a member when this change went through, and so it did effect me. I was upset enough to let them know I would no longer be using their service and I canceled. That change effected me so I spoke with something they would actually notice, my money.
Then we get into your correlation with Collectors Editions and I can see where you are coming from, but it is still in a video game setting. So I have to ask. How does it adversely effect you in such a way that them selling the same packs makes you not want to play? Is it just that you could have waited longer to spend the same $200 you already spent? Do you not like seeing more people with the Spider Mounts or Drow Race? Or is it just your "ethics"
Its that the notion they championed this as a "limited time only" during the week of Open Beta. They clearly stated the date it would end. "Order Soon" yet upon arrival of said date. It would be pushed back a few weeks. I thought I was buying the Hero of the North before the day before it ended.
While profits is one factor. Its about being honest. Having trust in the company. If we're going be here for years playing this game with new updates. It'd be nice to be able to trust what they say. How is that possible when we're not given a reason for extended marketing of an item that was supposed be a limited time.
Mine is less on ethics, more centered around honesty. I discussed my points as the cause and reaction when some company's can get too greedy. A fair warning that just because you can get more profits, doesn't exactly mean that you should. It impacts me directly because I bought a Hero of the North. That limited time edition. If I was given more time to look over what I bought. I should been well informed.
Or you don't think if I spent 200 dollars. I'm allowed to complain about the business marking tactics it used to say limited time, then extended it. All I'm asking for a little honesty. This by far most expensive MMO. I been in everything from Zen to Starter Packs that's okay.
But they said one thing and did another. We call that misleading.
I agree they can speak with their wallets and have their voice heard, but I still have to disagree on the limited time only exclusive items. Did they state what of the pack of exclusive, or just the entire pack? Was it stated that the founders title was the limited time only part or are people just butt hurt because there are more spiders running around now.
Youre asking people who will pay to make their character look different than everyone elses cookie cutter looking toons in an MMO how this affects them. They were sold "exclusivity" which has not been adhered to. It doesnt affect you because you dont care about the exclusive aspect of it, but for those who do, it does affect them.
At this point cut your losses if you feel you've been wronged or play the game and deal with what Cryptic has done. I've read through most of the post in this thread and another thread on this same subject and nothing it would seem is going to change. You have varied opinions on the issue (which is to be expected) and no middle ground to stand on. Two sides throwing words at each other isn't going to resolve anything.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Disregarding a lot of the harsh argument, a simple solution would have been replacing the founders pack with a new pack affiliated with their expansion called 'Fury of the Feywild'. Either way, if you spent 200 dollars for the sake of being unique (possibly for bragging rights) and expecting the pack to expire soon (though many have bought this pack), then you are terribly mistaken. I'm only expecting this game to be prosperous because it receives so much revenue, despite the complaints regarding many of its faulty systems/prices.
You said it would go away after launch, well its after launch. Packs are still available.
exactly my point they said a lot of the exclusive items that were sold w different boxes and the lifetime sub would go away after launch of sto and yet they're still available this will b the same w neverwinter never trust cryptic pwe when it comes to anything
Kinda got to agree.....its a bit of false advertising. And its really really wrong
Yes, basically no matter how you look at it (within reason) it's wrong, and unethical, and despite what some people here may thing; it's ok for we, the customers and players, to voice our concern or even outrage, about this. It's just not okay.
Will it chang anything, as those (also players, should be backing us) trying to bash us imply it wont? We don't know, but it has worked in the past, countless times, and maybe it will this time too. The point is not to "win", the point is to plant seeds in people, and the company, seeds that will help bring change. Might sound silly, but it has worked, in many games and areas.
Having a backbone and balls (metaphorically) instead of just bending over to a company, shutting your eyes and hoping for the courtesy of atleast a reacharound when they scam you and take your money?
I'm going with the first.
The game has now launched, its time to remove the founders packs. Your not "founding" anything at this point. It's rather insulting to people who purchased them already with the understanding that these were time sensitive purchases and we were helping to fund NW as well as getting stuff.
Aww I planned on buying one 6 months from now for $5 when 30 people are left playing this game;
Y'know; the ones willing to pay $2.50 for a respec.
Well honnestly, the AD bonus is inflating prices outrageously. It would be nice to remove that perk from the pack. If you want to give something, why not 30 keys instead? I don't mind the in-game store, as long as it doesn't break the game experience, and currently, all the ADs i refine are meaningless in comparison with what the founders get.
Bought a hero of the north pack mostly because I thought the spider art looked awesome. I was under the impression it would go away/be unavailable after launch along with the panther.
For some reason I assumed the drow, being a race, would eventually be available to all.
Kind of annoyed t hy is not the case, im a sucker for specialty item and they are no longer that. No ill will going forwatd though, they got my money and it will go towards the game, thats all good. However, I will absolutely not be buying anymore "specialty" items as I now know they will not be limited. Just a my money, my preference type thing though.
Mostly, the same for me. I bought both $60 and $200 packs when I did because I thought it would be going away. After all, that's what they said. I'm not sorry I got them, but deplore the deceptiveness utilized and will not likely purchase something in the future because of this, although I would've prolly dropped more money on a new pack or two in future had they not lied to us. So, they lost a potential customer over this. Drop in the bucket that prolly means naught to them, but hey, one lost customer is one less stream of income for them...
Founder packs will never be taken down get real. Are you kidding me its a cash grab why would they ever take it down. LOL if anything i could see them raise the price and call it Collectors edition Founder pack.
Mostly, the same for me. I bought both $60 and $200 packs when I did because I thought it would be going away. After all, that's what they said. I'm not sorry I got them, but deplore the deceptiveness utilized and will not likely purchase something in the future because of this, although I would've prolly dropped more money on a new pack or two in future had they not lied to us. So, they lost a potential customer over this. Drop in the bucket that prolly means naught to them, but hey, one lost customer is one less stream of income for them...
They already got your money they dont care if you ever come back. This game isnt a long term game. They wanted you to spend as much coin as possible which you did sucked into and drank the koolaid. Another sucker will come along and do the same. This is the business model they working on right now. Which is sad really. I feel ripped off spending 10bucks i would hate to feel like you right now.
When it doesnt effect me at all in any part of my life then no it doesnt bother me. Why should I get my jimmies all rustled over something I wont be able to change?
I'm no expert but I sense that you are more than a little rustled. Why else would you be repeating yourself ad nauseum on a forum, trying to convince someone you don't know about something you claim to not care about.
Glad this is still being discussed it's not like $200 is a small amount. The least you could expect from the equivalent to over a year of a subscription based game is the exclusivity that was promised.
They already got your money they dont care if you ever come back. This game isnt a long term game. They wanted you to spend as much coin as possible which you did sucked into and drank the koolaid. Another sucker will come along and do the same. This is the business model they working on right now. Which is sad really. I feel ripped off spending 10bucks i would hate to feel like you right now.
With the expansion of new languages, more suc... I mean, players, will purchase the NEW packs. Of course, since English is not their main language, you will not see them complaining here...
Its definitely a form of false advertising, they might lose a case like this is court, but then again who is going to take them to court over this and they know it.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
Its definitely a form of false advertising, they might lose a case like this is court, but then again who is going to take them to court over this and they know it.
You recall when Bioware had that bad ending to Mass Effect 3. A player complained to FTC (Federal Trade Commission) over it. They also collecting hundreds of signature, a facebook page all devoted to getting them to expand the ending. After months of this, it finally worked.
I wouldn't under estimate gamers who have a ton of time on their hands and who are passionate about what they play. On a secondary note. I wish I screen shoted when it said it would end this day, then end this day. We assumed they were being truthful.
While in the short term, they may gain extra cash from this. Its going hurt them in long time, the next time they say limited time on anything, are we supposed to trust them.
Comments
An example Xbox One, they added new features that make it possible to trade games already used to your friends but you had to be on that friends buddy list for 30 days. Second thing, one you transferred it. It could only be done once. The second owner cannot resell it.
They also had a feature that required you have xbox one to check if your internet was online once per day.
Many would say, what point am I trying to make. Well Xbox one recently dumped both of their change. Why, may be the question you may ask. In business sense they benefited them and they looked to make a larger amount of money.
Its because people let their voices be heard. They were so vocal, pushing back with threats they would go to PS4. The company had no choice but to dump the unpopular choices. The same with Netflix which was tempted to cut its service in two. One of internet streaming, the rest for delivering DVDS.
They ended up (Netflix)losing a massive amount of customers. Their CEO ended up taking a pay cut, their image was badly damaged.
I have given you two examples of company's trying to increase their profits through unpopular means, and the reaction to that. Now to people who supported this game. We paid 200 dollars for (Hero of the North) however we were mislead.
Each week they promised it would end soon, pushed back by another month. The open beta lasted for over a month. Now they are alive they took out founders title, which almost no one cares about and kept the item on sale in order to increase profits.
The people who are against this, feel mislead. All other MMO's that I have ever been apart of at launch. Including Rift, TOR, etc, GW2, they all promised bags of goodies. This MMO has set the bar as the most expensive out of any other.
The difference from them and this one, are two important things. One is the price. CE( Collectors Edition from TOR 150) this company has most expensive price at 200 dollar for starter pack. The second thing that its still there. All other companies taken out pre orders specials after launch.
Yet the starter pack still remains there for sole purpose of taking even more money when they are more then perfectly healthy maintain money from Zen. It just seems a tad excessive. We the customers understand that company's are corporation and they need profits. Yet it feels like they mislead us and amount they're ranking is, isn't purely from Zen.
I think the forums have quite enough Norma Rae's...and labeling something unethical doesn't necessarily make it so.
I agree they can speak with their wallets and have their voice heard, but I still have to disagree on the limited time only exclusive items. Did they state what of the pack of exclusive, or just the entire pack? Was it stated that the founders title was the limited time only part or are people just butt hurt because there are more spiders running around now.
That was a lot to type and I can see you are passionate about this. Let us start with your first two analogies.
The XBox One. If I had owned one and those features were in it would directly effect me so I would care and be just as up in arms as everyone else. Not only that but it would impact me in such a way that I would not have fun playing the entire system anymore.
Netflix now. I actually was a member when this change went through, and so it did effect me. I was upset enough to let them know I would no longer be using their service and I canceled. That change effected me so I spoke with something they would actually notice, my money.
Then we get into your correlation with Collectors Editions and I can see where you are coming from, but it is still in a video game setting. So I have to ask. How does it adversely effect you in such a way that them selling the same packs makes you not want to play? Is it just that you could have waited longer to spend the same $200 you already spent? Do you not like seeing more people with the Spider Mounts or Drow Race? Or is it just your "ethics"
they pretty much used vague language to imply the entire pack was exclusive, then took out the founders title and legally speaking, theyre fine and dandy.
Its that the notion they championed this as a "limited time only" during the week of Open Beta. They clearly stated the date it would end. "Order Soon" yet upon arrival of said date. It would be pushed back a few weeks. I thought I was buying the Hero of the North before the day before it ended.
While profits is one factor. Its about being honest. Having trust in the company. If we're going be here for years playing this game with new updates. It'd be nice to be able to trust what they say. How is that possible when we're not given a reason for extended marketing of an item that was supposed be a limited time.
Mine is less on ethics, more centered around honesty. I discussed my points as the cause and reaction when some company's can get too greedy. A fair warning that just because you can get more profits, doesn't exactly mean that you should. It impacts me directly because I bought a Hero of the North. That limited time edition. If I was given more time to look over what I bought. I should been well informed.
Or you don't think if I spent 200 dollars. I'm allowed to complain about the business marking tactics it used to say limited time, then extended it. All I'm asking for a little honesty. This by far most expensive MMO. I been in everything from Zen to Starter Packs that's okay.
But they said one thing and did another. We call that misleading.
Youre asking people who will pay to make their character look different than everyone elses cookie cutter looking toons in an MMO how this affects them. They were sold "exclusivity" which has not been adhered to. It doesnt affect you because you dont care about the exclusive aspect of it, but for those who do, it does affect them.
The game launched on the 21st did it not?
June 20th 2013, :-)
At this point cut your losses if you feel you've been wronged or play the game and deal with what Cryptic has done. I've read through most of the post in this thread and another thread on this same subject and nothing it would seem is going to change. You have varied opinions on the issue (which is to be expected) and no middle ground to stand on. Two sides throwing words at each other isn't going to resolve anything.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
You said it would go away after launch, well its after launch. Packs are still available.
SO.
The 'founder' packs, become... standard packs.
Way to go PWE nice scam bros.
exactly my point they said a lot of the exclusive items that were sold w different boxes and the lifetime sub would go away after launch of sto and yet they're still available this will b the same w neverwinter never trust cryptic pwe when it comes to anything
Yes, basically no matter how you look at it (within reason) it's wrong, and unethical, and despite what some people here may thing; it's ok for we, the customers and players, to voice our concern or even outrage, about this. It's just not okay.
Will it chang anything, as those (also players, should be backing us) trying to bash us imply it wont? We don't know, but it has worked in the past, countless times, and maybe it will this time too. The point is not to "win", the point is to plant seeds in people, and the company, seeds that will help bring change. Might sound silly, but it has worked, in many games and areas.
Having a backbone and balls (metaphorically) instead of just bending over to a company, shutting your eyes and hoping for the courtesy of atleast a reacharound when they scam you and take your money?
I'm going with the first.
Aww I planned on buying one 6 months from now for $5 when 30 people are left playing this game;
Y'know; the ones willing to pay $2.50 for a respec.
don't expect one either we never heard a word regarding sto selling exclusive items after they were no longer supposed to b sold
Mostly, the same for me. I bought both $60 and $200 packs when I did because I thought it would be going away. After all, that's what they said. I'm not sorry I got them, but deplore the deceptiveness utilized and will not likely purchase something in the future because of this, although I would've prolly dropped more money on a new pack or two in future had they not lied to us. So, they lost a potential customer over this. Drop in the bucket that prolly means naught to them, but hey, one lost customer is one less stream of income for them...
They already got your money they dont care if you ever come back. This game isnt a long term game. They wanted you to spend as much coin as possible which you did sucked into and drank the koolaid. Another sucker will come along and do the same. This is the business model they working on right now. Which is sad really. I feel ripped off spending 10bucks i would hate to feel like you right now.
I'm no expert but I sense that you are more than a little rustled. Why else would you be repeating yourself ad nauseum on a forum, trying to convince someone you don't know about something you claim to not care about.
Glad this is still being discussed it's not like $200 is a small amount. The least you could expect from the equivalent to over a year of a subscription based game is the exclusivity that was promised.
With the expansion of new languages, more suc... I mean, players, will purchase the NEW packs. Of course, since English is not their main language, you will not see them complaining here...
You recall when Bioware had that bad ending to Mass Effect 3. A player complained to FTC (Federal Trade Commission) over it. They also collecting hundreds of signature, a facebook page all devoted to getting them to expand the ending. After months of this, it finally worked.
I wouldn't under estimate gamers who have a ton of time on their hands and who are passionate about what they play. On a secondary note. I wish I screen shoted when it said it would end this day, then end this day. We assumed they were being truthful.
While in the short term, they may gain extra cash from this. Its going hurt them in long time, the next time they say limited time on anything, are we supposed to trust them.