annihilating adds in few seconds? tank on boss? that sure seems legit xD
You also missed the point of whole thread, might want to read it again.
Combat Advantage for whooping 3 seconds! No, for real i dont get why would any1 spent points for it, CA is applied PASSIVELY when target gets attacked from multiple direction, if u dont see sword icon beside your dmg(thats CA indicator) on every attack you fail at positioning.
Student of the Sword is legitimately good no1 argues about it, still not as good as people think.
Why would you even take MASSIVE BEATING? Thats tank job and GWF cannot tank effectively because of target cap on powers and bad threat generation, try tanking adds in a fight when its actually matters like epic FH/TotS/DV.
You dont get the problem, I dont get the people who troll/dont understand basic mechanics and flood threads like this with useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
annihilating adds in few seconds? tank on boss? that sure seems legit xD
You also missed the point of whole thread, might want to read it again.
Combat Advantage for whooping 3 seconds! No, for real i dont get why would any1 spent points for it, CA is applied PASSIVELY when target gets attacked from multiple direction, if u dont see sword icon beside your dmg(thats CA indicator) on every attack you fail at positioning.
Student of the Sword is legitimately good no1 argues about it, still not as good as people think.
Why would you even take MASSIVE BEATING? Thats tank job and GWF cannot tank effectively because of target cap on powers and bad threat generation, try tanking adds in a fight when its actually matters like epic FH/TotS/DV.
You dont get the problem, I dont get the people who troll/dont understand basic mechanics and flood threads like this with useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I read the post, and I wasn't trolling in any way or form.
If anything, you seem to be the ignorant troll here, who thinks he's bringing anything to the table.
Who says we aren't doing Temple of the Spider and FH?
It's not like PvE is hard in this game. You just fail to see the pint I was making and based your dreadfull conclusions around it.
I don't care for it, as people like you are usually the ones complaining and refusing to do the dungeons like they were ment to.
Speaking about understanding basic mechanics, you should read up on them yourself.
I read the post, and I wasn't trolling in any way or form.
If anything, you seem to be the ignorant troll here, who thinks he's bringing anything to the table.
Who says we aren't doing Temple of the Spider and FH?
It's not like PvE is hard in this game. You just fail to see the pint I was making and based your dreadfull conclusions around it. I don't care for it, as people like you are usually the ones complaining and refusing to do the dungeons like they were ment to.
Speaking about understanding basic mechanics, you should read up on them yourself.
Just bring another CW and it will be easier. The 5 target cap is just simply stupid, the reduction in damage per mob hit for an aoe class is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, if anything it should be increases damage per target hit by like 5-8% per target hit. Spider is mostly done with 1 GF 2 CW 1 TR 1 DC, GWF do not bring enough to table, the damage is laughable since its capped at 5 and most of what you fight that time are either elites or the boss. FH just bring an extra TR or CW and you will have an easier time (DC and GF usually kite around mobs anyway). Spellplague ..... yeah entire fight goes like this Singularity, Push, Singularity, Push, Singularity, Push..... TR smacks boss finished, want an easier time? grab a second CW for more hilarity (2+ singularities up at the same time entire fight). yeah i guess we do top damage charts for dungeons... on WORTHLESS GARBAGE. People see the 18+ million in damage for a dungeon run and say ohh look GWF are fine... the problem is its on meaningless trash that half the other classes can do better.
Just bring another CW and it will be easier. The 5 target cap is just simply stupid, the reduction in damage per mob hit for an aoe class is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, if anything it should be increases damage per target hit by like 5-8% per target hit. Spider is mostly done with 1 GF 2 CW 1 TR 1 DC, GWF do not bring enough to table, the damage is laughable since its capped at 5 and most of what you fight that time are either elites or the boss. FH just bring an extra TR or CW and you will have an easier time (DC and GF usually kite around mobs anyway). Spellplague ..... yeah entire fight goes like this Singularity, Push, Singularity, Push, Singularity, Push..... TR smacks boss finished, want an easier time? grab a second CW for more hilarity (2+ singularities up at the same time entire fight). yeah i guess we do top damage charts for dungeons... on WORTHLESS GARBAGE. People see the 18+ million in damage for a dungeon run and say ohh look GWF are fine... the problem is its on meaningless trash that half the other classes can do better.
I agree that it can be done easier.
But that doesn't mean you have to right?
We like that there's some form of challenge in the picture, and if that means they bring a GWF over another CW then yes.
Not everyone wants to just go into a dungeon and get free loot. Some actually want to feel like they have earned it.
I swear, if people could decide between entering a dungeon and just running to the end of it without killing anything and just recieving the loot from the chest, they would pick that over clearing trash and killing bosses.
And it's f-ing pathetic to be honest.
I can't wait for them to close of every single boss room so you can't drag a boss to a campfire and just circlejerk there while ignoring adds and just killing the boss. The amount of whine on the forums are gonna fuel my sleep for years to come.
I agree that it can be done easier.
But that doesn't mean you have to right?
We like that there's some form of challenge in the picture, and if that means they bring a GWF over another CW then yes.
Not everyone wants to just go into a dungeon and get free loot. Some actually want to feel like they have earned it.
I swear, if people could decide between entering a dungeon and just running to the end of it without killing anything and just recieving the loot from the chest, they would pick that over clearing trash and killing bosses.
And it's f-ing pathetic to be honest.
I can't wait for them to close of every single boss room so you can't drag a boss to a campfire and just circlejerk there while ignoring adds and just killing the boss. The amount of whine on the forums are gonna fuel my sleep for years to come.
By that argument, GWF is a novelty class along the lines of the "special" kid you pick for you team, just so everyone else has to work harder to cover for them. That's hardly an argument for the class being competitive.
That said, as long as the class is viable, I think that is reason enough to bring one. As you have pointed out, the content is not so difficult to warrant a strict "optimal party only" policy. Though it is a bit disappointing that the class is so overly gear/enchant dependent.
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elpaleniozord01Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2013
^ this
If your friends are ok with bringing 5th wheel to dungeon thats fine, but dont claim GWFs are ok.
My post above wasnt supposed to bring anything to discussion, simply pointing out your bs, also feel free to enlighten me regarding mechanics like in this thread im always up for good laughs.
So what you are saying is that you would rather have a bench warmer than your star player for the championship game? the bench warmer that has down syndrome 1 leg and is blind in one eye... hey if its still viable huh?
So what you are saying is that you would rather have a bench warmer than your star player for the championship game? the bench warmer that has down syndrome 1 leg and is blind in one eye... hey if its still viable huh?
Ok so the first sentence didn't get the point across, you felt the need to bash using people's disabilities?
Did i bash them? no just stated a simple fact... if your that touchy then stop reading forums. I had to dumb it down to the most simple form, because to many people take it as a personal assault when it is said that GWF are not a good class to bring to dungeons. I made it so that everyone would be able to get a visual idea of what that meant. Here is another one... would you put Stephen Hawking in to make your game winning touchdown?
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ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I agree that it can be done easier.
But that doesn't mean you have to right?
We like that there's some form of challenge in the picture, and if that means they bring a GWF over another CW then yes.
Not everyone wants to just go into a dungeon and get free loot. Some actually want to feel like they have earned it.
I swear, if people could decide between entering a dungeon and just running to the end of it without killing anything and just recieving the loot from the chest, they would pick that over clearing trash and killing bosses.
And it's f-ing pathetic to be honest.
I can't wait for them to close of every single boss room so you can't drag a boss to a campfire and just circlejerk there while ignoring adds and just killing the boss. The amount of whine on the forums are gonna fuel my sleep for years to come.
Do you people even read previous posts? I've already said, it has nothing to do with trash clearing, skipping/exploiting content, it ALL has to do with the dungeon design. GWFs are great for dungeons like karrundax, where there are tons of adds, little to no edges, and final boss actually has a purpose for the GWF (tons of adds to kill!). But then, you put a GWF in an instance such as spell plague, or castle never, and they have absolutely no purpose in the final fights of each dungeon.
Do you people even read previous posts? I've already said, it has nothing to do with trash clearing, skipping/exploiting content, it ALL has to do with the dungeon design. GWFs are great for dungeons like karrundax, where there are tons of adds, little to no edges, and final boss actually has a purpose for the GWF (tons of adds to kill!). But then, you put a GWF in an instance such as spell plague, or castle never, and they have absolutely no purpose in the final fights of each dungeon.
Again just take another CW, now you don't have to worry about any of the adds hitting your healer. If the CW is specced right they will out dps you, take 2 and everything is up in the air, no ledge tossing needed.
How often do you do Karrundax? my GWF is always on boss duty, why? because the CW and GF can take out the adds better and safer than i can so umm swap my GWF out for a TR and boss is dead faster. Its not the fact that they are completely useless, its just almost every other class can be doubled up and have more impact than a GWF. I keep saying they need to change the decrease :mad: damage for each mob hit to INCREASE and take away the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hit cap. It would put GWF firmly where they are supposed to be the AOE trash mob clearer... ATM with only hitting 5 mobs anything over that is just increasing the effectiveness of a CW, as well as dropping the viability of a GWF. If you want an effective group right now there is no reason to bring a GWF, add a TR for more boss damage add a CW for more add control/damage, hell add a DC if you really really want the heals. A GWF does nothing better than any other class and does not even equal what the other classes do so again why bring them? This is not an attack on any person because they like GWF this is a simple FACT that GWF need something..... to make them better in groups.
Sadly because they see GWF winning by only a little bit in paingiver they think that they are fine... GWF should be 4x any other class, why? because they are an AOE centric class. even hitting for say HALF of what a TR does (and its MUCH, MUCH lower than that) the fact that they hit multiple enemies should mean that they more than double anyone's damage. People pay to much attention to the stupid damage chart when they should think about how they got that type of damage.
get rid of ledges (stupidest idea in the world when you have 2/4 classes that specialize in AoE damage, then give one the ability to negate any need for AoE)
reduce CW AoE Damage a bit (give them single target to compensate)
eliminate our 5 cap, and the DR per mob. oh yeah, a bit more threat.
Why give them single target to compensate? They are as the name suggests a CONTROL wizard. That alone is enough, if they can put 30 mobs in the air at all times why are you wanting them to get a damage buff?
get rid of ledges (stupidest idea in the world when you have 2/4 classes that specialize in AoE damage, then give one the ability to negate any need for AoE)
reduce CW AoE Damage a bit (give them single target to compensate)
eliminate our 5 cap, and the DR per mob. oh yeah, a bit more threat.
I think ledges offer a nice change from your typical dungeon runs. Of course too much of it is ridiculous. But I would like to see GWf get something unique to their class. These like:
- Unstoppable extends the CC immunity to anyone else within 20ft of the GWF. (crazy I know)
- Battle Fury gives everyone Regeneration equal to 25% of a player's Power.
- Daring Shout lowers the damage of affected targets by 10% for 5sec.
- Come and Get it would function EXACTLY like the Thunes' pull followed by an AOE attack that leaves target prove for 1secon.
- Roar (remove that silly 5ft push) reduce the cooldown of Active Encounters of everyone within 20ft of the GWF by 2seconds.
- Single Target Encounters do 5% more damage for every party member within 10ft of your target and generate 25% more AP.
Whats needed is not a class fix but a community Fix,
End-game geared (and in talking BiS here) GWF will destroy any BiS CW on aoe packs with a good rotation and a little teamwork GWF dps is fine, (and before you say "oh well you have no idea, I have a lvl 60 CW 12 GS with BiS for DPS and a 12k GS GWF with BiS"whats not fine is the fact that people still see them as bad are are stuck in the old mentality of well x2 cw's must be better, they don't even give GWF'ers a chance to improve thier skill, you think any class can be played well without practice?
GWF fighter brings High dps on aoe target's (singles not too bad too but cant beat a rogue because thats thier niche) a huge MiT debuff (student of the sword), the ability to off tank in a pinch, with nerf's to CW's enfeebling ray and plague fire, and soon the High vizer set fix the GWF will provide more of Mit debuff than a CW, what GWF cannot bring to the table is Arcane singularity, you don't need it. (apart from last boss in never, because you cannot dps the adds down fast enough, too much hp/respawn time)
Whats needed is not a class fix but a community Fix,
End-game geared (and in talking BiS here) GWF will destroy any BiS CW on aoe packs with a good rotation and a little teamwork GWF dps is fine, (and before you say "oh well you have no idea, I have a lvl 60 CW 12 GS with BiS for DPS and a 12k GS GWF with BiS"whats not fine is the fact that people still see them as bad are are stuck in the old mentality of well x2 cw's must be better, they don't even give GWF'ers a chance to improve thier skill, you think any class can be played well without practice?
GWF fighter brings High dps on aoe target's (singles not too bad too but cant beat a rogue because thats thier niche) a huge MiT debuff (student of the sword), the ability to off tank in a pinch, with nerf's to CW's enfeebling ray and plague fire, and soon the High vizer set fix the GWF will provide more of Mit debuff than a CW, what GWF cannot bring to the table is Arcane singularity, you don't need it. (apart from last boss in never, because you cannot dps the adds down fast enough, too much hp/respawn time)
I also have a GWF, CW and a TR. If your CW is not consistently out damaging your GWF it is because you are not trying, even if they hit for 1/2 a GWF damage the fact that they can hit 30 mob at once means you stand no chance in keeping up in damage. AOE isnt really 5 targets... thats more of splash single target (remember its less damage for EACH mob hit). GWF bring so-so damage to the group, but i will agree with you for the sots debuff it is the ONE thing they can bring. The only way a GWF can function somewhat decently is to gimp another classes damage that is it, period. So basically for you to bring the so so damage you have to have a CW helping you and gimping them self... or you could just bring another CW and let them go all out on the mobs, not only do they do your damage + they also bring control to the table. BTW I'm curious what you use for enchants, how many different sets of gear do you have to swap out so your group can always have you at the top of your game.
I run Greater Lightning (damm coalescent price keeps going up and up stopping me from getting perfect) and run avatar of war 4/4 on my GWF with rank 8 rune's so Only 1 set, I cannot beat Guild GWF's on my CW and I Beat Guild CW's on my GWF, Is your CW running High Viz? because its bugged atm and is providing a Huge Mit debuff thats its not supposed to, which is being fixed.
I have 4 different ancient swords to support different group makeups and dungeons. Lightning PF vorp and lifedrinker all perfect (and yes the stupid coal price is getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.) I dont bother with my full AoW set because its not worth the time for to keep it up 2/2 set with AoW and vig. one of the CW i run with is high viz and yeah... not even in same league as him, but i also play with 3 that have different gear and they all out damage, perfect lightning + unlimited aoe = dead mob group. I have all the sword runes just to try and see which did best damage for us, if slam could crit vorp would be awsome.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Common knowledge is wrong we have end game geared GWF and they top the damage meter's now, GWF's are becoming more desired in groups than TR's, it just takes awhile for the community to realise and the player's to adapt to new build's.
Just ran with 2 GWF, 1 CW and 2 DC and did fine. GWF are WAY more powerful now then people realize...
It's Common knowledge GWFs do not get to be part of End game dungeons for Epic Dread Vaults or Castle never. THe dungeons that drops there T2 and T3 weapons no less.
A GWFs Add control just can't compare to a CW's who can both AOE Dps adds and throw them off cliffs.
GWF's can't tank like a GF and Can't add control like a CW, players know the better choice is just to have 2 Wizards in every group and Axe the GWF.
So when will Cryptic make a comment on the continued poor state of the GWF. The GWF's Damage and defenses are fine but they need to bring more to a party, If you want to prove me wrong show me a video of a Dread Vaults or CN dungeon being beaten with 2 GWFS in the party. That way there can be no excuses like 1 GWF is there and just gets powered through by the more useful classes.
Ummm join a guild? I have a group any time im on and do every Tier ....Soooo your point is moot. Learn to be social, its an MMO. Love my GWF .
Ummm join a guild? I have a group any time im on and do every Tier ....Soooo your point is moot. Learn to be social, its an MMO. Love my GWF .
So in order to get a group you have to be held up by people willing to do so, got it. Stop taking it as a personal attack when people say a GWF is not a needed class in dungeons. We are NOT trying to call you out saying you are blah blah... we are stating, in no uncertain terms, that GWF is NOT a good class! Yes we understand if supported and held up you can do decent damage ( to trash) but your role is performed MUCH, MUCH better by others. The gaming community has no reason to take a second stringer when there are plenty of all stars to choose from. Having a good CW is better than having a spectacular GWF, so if you have a scale of 1-10 player ability with 1 being worst you have to have an 8-10 GWF to perform like a 4-6 of another class, if you pug it that means you have a 20% chance of having someone perform decent vs a 60 % chance of someone performing at least decent and 40% of them being spectacular vs another class. Which would you chose? Not sure about you but i prefer better odds.
So in order to get a group you have to be held up by people willing to do so, got it. Stop taking it as a personal attack when people say a GWF is not a needed class in dungeons. We are NOT trying to call you out saying you are blah blah... we are stating, in no uncertain terms, that GWF is NOT a good class! Yes we understand if supported and held up you can do decent damage ( to trash) but your role is performed MUCH, MUCH better by others. The gaming community has no reason to take a second stringer when there are plenty of all stars to choose from. Having a good CW is better than having a spectacular GWF, so if you have a scale of 1-10 player ability with 1 being worst you have to have an 8-10 GWF to perform like a 4-6 of another class, if you pug it that means you have a 20% chance of having someone perform decent vs a 60 % chance of someone performing at least decent and 40% of them being spectacular vs another class. Which would you chose? Not sure about you but i prefer better odds.
So you are saying that because another class can do your job better, you are not having fun? I have more fun on my GWF then the other class's (though i do hope a ranger comes along). It is not as if you CAN"T complete a tier 2 or 3 with a GWF. PuGs are 80% idiots with HUGE epeens.
Guild runs are not holding you up either. All our runs are smooth as long as people know what they are doing and know there class. Might not be the class for you? Know the roll this class is suposed to be. You are dame right, we are beasts VS trash, no one does the job like us. Why can't you be happy doing the most dmg and killing the most MoBs. It's only about dmg on a boss for you then? Well ok, i like to play with my group and have some laughs while clearing out some dungeons. People have different play styles .
You can have an opinion OP but do not come out and say "It's Common knowledge GWFs do not get to be part of End game dungeons for Epic Dread Vaults or Castle never. THe dungeons that drops there T2 and T3 weapons no less." when there are LOTS of us who do all the end game currently in NW.
Sadly because they see GWF winning by only a little bit in paingiver they think that they are fine... GWF should be 4x any other class, why? because they are an AOE centric class. even hitting for say HALF of what a TR does (and its MUCH, MUCH lower than that) the fact that they hit multiple enemies should mean that they more than double anyone's damage. People pay to much attention to the stupid damage chart when they should think about how they got that type of damage.
I say again after reading more of your posts. If your hitting half and more lower then a TR you are doing something wrong sir....
Ok tyb explain how a single target DPS can over the course of a dungeon keep up with an AOE class? This is the first game I have ever seen where the single target thinks they should out dps everyone in total damage. Numerically the only way for this to add up, would be for a TR to hit for over 4x your damage on a single target that you hit each of your 5 targets for. Guess what tyb, they do over 2x your damage. think about it in a given amount of time a TR hits one mob, you hit 5, yet that TR is keeping with you in total dps. That is how I'm saying your doing half the damage, or less. Neither of us has said that a GWF is utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, we just stated that it can be done BETTER by another class. argue with me on that. Guild runs ARE holding you up, they are giving you a spot because you want to talk to them and such instead of giving it to another class that would do better (social aspect vs efficiency) Tyb also i am playing it right, i can hit the same garbage numbers the other high end specced GWF can on the server but guess what? The only runs my GWF is really going on is guild runs, my CW or TR can **** near single-handedly pull those so call "Idiot" pugs as you put them, through the dungeon runs with no problem including most spider runs. Can your GWF do that? Including spider boss? How about CN? So yes I am saying that a GWF is not as good as doubling up on another class. Ohh and beasts vs trash? CW do it better if specced right (control AND equal damage) if you haven't seen one I do pity you, you only hit 5 targets, we have a person round up entire areas of mobs just so we can burst down 20-40 mobs in seconds, can your GWF do that? nope you will still be bashing away on the same group by the time we have moved onto the next 3 or 4 sets.
It is simple mechanics, 5 hit target cap + depreciating damage per mob it < no mob cap + no depreciating damage per mob hit + equal damage on each mob hit vs class + control if needed = .... which one you think lost that?
How about 4x+ the damage on single target + dodge mechanic + stealth > 1/4 the damage + depreciating damage but hits 5 targets at max.
It is not that i do not like the class, I just want them to be what they can be, not the gimped offering that they are now.
Comments
annihilating adds in few seconds? tank on boss? that sure seems legit xD
You also missed the point of whole thread, might want to read it again.
Combat Advantage for whooping 3 seconds! No, for real i dont get why would any1 spent points for it, CA is applied PASSIVELY when target gets attacked from multiple direction, if u dont see sword icon beside your dmg(thats CA indicator) on every attack you fail at positioning.
Student of the Sword is legitimately good no1 argues about it, still not as good as people think.
Why would you even take MASSIVE BEATING? Thats tank job and GWF cannot tank effectively because of target cap on powers and bad threat generation, try tanking adds in a fight when its actually matters like epic FH/TotS/DV.
You dont get the problem, I dont get the people who troll/dont understand basic mechanics and flood threads like this with useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I read the post, and I wasn't trolling in any way or form.
If anything, you seem to be the ignorant troll here, who thinks he's bringing anything to the table.
Who says we aren't doing Temple of the Spider and FH?
It's not like PvE is hard in this game. You just fail to see the pint I was making and based your dreadfull conclusions around it.
I don't care for it, as people like you are usually the ones complaining and refusing to do the dungeons like they were ment to.
Speaking about understanding basic mechanics, you should read up on them yourself.
Just bring another CW and it will be easier. The 5 target cap is just simply stupid, the reduction in damage per mob hit for an aoe class is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, if anything it should be increases damage per target hit by like 5-8% per target hit. Spider is mostly done with 1 GF 2 CW 1 TR 1 DC, GWF do not bring enough to table, the damage is laughable since its capped at 5 and most of what you fight that time are either elites or the boss. FH just bring an extra TR or CW and you will have an easier time (DC and GF usually kite around mobs anyway). Spellplague ..... yeah entire fight goes like this Singularity, Push, Singularity, Push, Singularity, Push..... TR smacks boss finished, want an easier time? grab a second CW for more hilarity (2+ singularities up at the same time entire fight). yeah i guess we do top damage charts for dungeons... on WORTHLESS GARBAGE. People see the 18+ million in damage for a dungeon run and say ohh look GWF are fine... the problem is its on meaningless trash that half the other classes can do better.
I agree that it can be done easier.
But that doesn't mean you have to right?
We like that there's some form of challenge in the picture, and if that means they bring a GWF over another CW then yes.
Not everyone wants to just go into a dungeon and get free loot. Some actually want to feel like they have earned it.
I swear, if people could decide between entering a dungeon and just running to the end of it without killing anything and just recieving the loot from the chest, they would pick that over clearing trash and killing bosses.
And it's f-ing pathetic to be honest.
I can't wait for them to close of every single boss room so you can't drag a boss to a campfire and just circlejerk there while ignoring adds and just killing the boss. The amount of whine on the forums are gonna fuel my sleep for years to come.
By that argument, GWF is a novelty class along the lines of the "special" kid you pick for you team, just so everyone else has to work harder to cover for them. That's hardly an argument for the class being competitive.
That said, as long as the class is viable, I think that is reason enough to bring one. As you have pointed out, the content is not so difficult to warrant a strict "optimal party only" policy. Though it is a bit disappointing that the class is so overly gear/enchant dependent.
If your friends are ok with bringing 5th wheel to dungeon thats fine, but dont claim GWFs are ok.
My post above wasnt supposed to bring anything to discussion, simply pointing out your bs, also feel free to enlighten me regarding mechanics like in this thread im always up for good laughs.
Ok so the first sentence didn't get the point across, you felt the need to bash using people's disabilities?
Do you people even read previous posts? I've already said, it has nothing to do with trash clearing, skipping/exploiting content, it ALL has to do with the dungeon design. GWFs are great for dungeons like karrundax, where there are tons of adds, little to no edges, and final boss actually has a purpose for the GWF (tons of adds to kill!). But then, you put a GWF in an instance such as spell plague, or castle never, and they have absolutely no purpose in the final fights of each dungeon.
Again just take another CW, now you don't have to worry about any of the adds hitting your healer. If the CW is specced right they will out dps you, take 2 and everything is up in the air, no ledge tossing needed.
How often do you do Karrundax? my GWF is always on boss duty, why? because the CW and GF can take out the adds better and safer than i can so umm swap my GWF out for a TR and boss is dead faster. Its not the fact that they are completely useless, its just almost every other class can be doubled up and have more impact than a GWF. I keep saying they need to change the decrease :mad: damage for each mob hit to INCREASE
Sadly because they see GWF winning by only a little bit in paingiver they think that they are fine... GWF should be 4x any other class, why? because they are an AOE centric class. even hitting for say HALF of what a TR does (and its MUCH, MUCH lower than that) the fact that they hit multiple enemies should mean that they more than double anyone's damage. People pay to much attention to the stupid damage chart when they should think about how they got that type of damage.
get rid of ledges (stupidest idea in the world when you have 2/4 classes that specialize in AoE damage, then give one the ability to negate any need for AoE)
reduce CW AoE Damage a bit (give them single target to compensate)
eliminate our 5 cap, and the DR per mob. oh yeah, a bit more threat.
I think ledges offer a nice change from your typical dungeon runs. Of course too much of it is ridiculous. But I would like to see GWf get something unique to their class. These like:
- Unstoppable extends the CC immunity to anyone else within 20ft of the GWF. (crazy I know)
- Battle Fury gives everyone Regeneration equal to 25% of a player's Power.
- Daring Shout lowers the damage of affected targets by 10% for 5sec.
- Come and Get it would function EXACTLY like the Thunes' pull followed by an AOE attack that leaves target prove for 1secon.
- Roar (remove that silly 5ft push) reduce the cooldown of Active Encounters of everyone within 20ft of the GWF by 2seconds.
- Single Target Encounters do 5% more damage for every party member within 10ft of your target and generate 25% more AP.
End-game geared (and in talking BiS here) GWF will destroy any BiS CW on aoe packs with a good rotation and a little teamwork GWF dps is fine, (and before you say "oh well you have no idea, I have a lvl 60 CW 12 GS with BiS for DPS and a 12k GS GWF with BiS"whats not fine is the fact that people still see them as bad are are stuck in the old mentality of well x2 cw's must be better, they don't even give GWF'ers a chance to improve thier skill, you think any class can be played well without practice?
GWF fighter brings High dps on aoe target's (singles not too bad too but cant beat a rogue because thats thier niche) a huge MiT debuff (student of the sword), the ability to off tank in a pinch, with nerf's to CW's enfeebling ray and plague fire, and soon the High vizer set fix the GWF will provide more of Mit debuff than a CW, what GWF cannot bring to the table is Arcane singularity, you don't need it. (apart from last boss in never, because you cannot dps the adds down fast enough, too much hp/respawn time)
I also have a GWF, CW and a TR. If your CW is not consistently out damaging your GWF it is because you are not trying, even if they hit for 1/2 a GWF damage the fact that they can hit 30 mob at once means you stand no chance in keeping up in damage. AOE isnt really 5 targets... thats more of splash single target (remember its less damage for EACH mob hit). GWF bring so-so damage to the group, but i will agree with you for the sots debuff it is the ONE thing they can bring. The only way a GWF can function somewhat decently is to gimp another classes damage that is it, period. So basically for you to bring the so so damage you have to have a CW helping you and gimping them self... or you could just bring another CW and let them go all out on the mobs, not only do they do your damage + they also bring control to the table. BTW I'm curious what you use for enchants, how many different sets of gear do you have to swap out so your group can always have you at the top of your game.
Roar.
/10 char
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
10char
Just ran with 2 GWF, 1 CW and 2 DC and did fine. GWF are WAY more powerful now then people realize...
Ummm join a guild? I have a group any time im on and do every Tier ....Soooo your point is moot. Learn to be social, its an MMO. Love my GWF .
So in order to get a group you have to be held up by people willing to do so, got it. Stop taking it as a personal attack when people say a GWF is not a needed class in dungeons. We are NOT trying to call you out saying you are blah blah... we are stating, in no uncertain terms, that GWF is NOT a good class! Yes we understand if supported and held up you can do decent damage ( to trash) but your role is performed MUCH, MUCH better by others. The gaming community has no reason to take a second stringer when there are plenty of all stars to choose from. Having a good CW is better than having a spectacular GWF, so if you have a scale of 1-10 player ability with 1 being worst you have to have an 8-10 GWF to perform like a 4-6 of another class, if you pug it that means you have a 20% chance of having someone perform decent vs a 60 % chance of someone performing at least decent and 40% of them being spectacular vs another class. Which would you chose? Not sure about you but i prefer better odds.
So you are saying that because another class can do your job better, you are not having fun? I have more fun on my GWF then the other class's (though i do hope a ranger comes along). It is not as if you CAN"T complete a tier 2 or 3 with a GWF. PuGs are 80% idiots with HUGE epeens.
Guild runs are not holding you up either. All our runs are smooth as long as people know what they are doing and know there class. Might not be the class for you? Know the roll this class is suposed to be. You are dame right, we are beasts VS trash, no one does the job like us. Why can't you be happy doing the most dmg and killing the most MoBs. It's only about dmg on a boss for you then? Well ok, i like to play with my group and have some laughs while clearing out some dungeons. People have different play styles .
You can have an opinion OP but do not come out and say "It's Common knowledge GWFs do not get to be part of End game dungeons for Epic Dread Vaults or Castle never. THe dungeons that drops there T2 and T3 weapons no less." when there are LOTS of us who do all the end game currently in NW.
just sayin---
This man is correct. Maybe you are not playing it right?
I say again after reading more of your posts. If your hitting half and more lower then a TR you are doing something wrong sir....
We all know Roar, TD, and SA all have knockback capabilities with TD having the worse one out of the 3.
It is simple mechanics, 5 hit target cap + depreciating damage per mob it < no mob cap + no depreciating damage per mob hit + equal damage on each mob hit vs class + control if needed = .... which one you think lost that?
How about 4x+ the damage on single target + dodge mechanic + stealth > 1/4 the damage + depreciating damage but hits 5 targets at max.
It is not that i do not like the class, I just want them to be what they can be, not the gimped offering that they are now.