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Why are GWF's still a Dead class?
farfig1337
Member Posts: 108 Bounty Hunter
It's Common knowledge GWFs do not get to be part of End game dungeons for Epic Dread Vaults or Castle never. THe dungeons that drops there T2 and T3 weapons no less.
A GWFs Add control just can't compare to a CW's who can both AOE Dps adds and throw them off cliffs.
GWF's can't tank like a GF and Can't add control like a CW, players know the better choice is just to have 2 Wizards in every group and Axe the GWF.
So when will Cryptic make a comment on the continued poor state of the GWF. The GWF's Damage and defenses are fine but they need to bring more to a party, If you want to prove me wrong show me a video of a Dread Vaults or CN dungeon being beaten with 2 GWFS in the party. That way there can be no excuses like 1 GWF is there and just gets powered through by the more useful classes.
A GWFs Add control just can't compare to a CW's who can both AOE Dps adds and throw them off cliffs.
GWF's can't tank like a GF and Can't add control like a CW, players know the better choice is just to have 2 Wizards in every group and Axe the GWF.
So when will Cryptic make a comment on the continued poor state of the GWF. The GWF's Damage and defenses are fine but they need to bring more to a party, If you want to prove me wrong show me a video of a Dread Vaults or CN dungeon being beaten with 2 GWFS in the party. That way there can be no excuses like 1 GWF is there and just gets powered through by the more useful classes.
Post edited by farfig1337 on
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Nope. The defense is fine, there is none, which is fine. No HP, no deflect, no block, nothing. This is fine. But the damage is sub-par, while it should be twice the damage of the other classes. When I play my GF, The AT-Wills do more damage than my gwf's encounters, my encounters do more damage than my gwf's Dailies.
Even in the one and only situation where the gwf is supposed to be vastly superior, aka four slow, weak trash mobs surrounding hime, a GF will be faster. And much faster if there are five mobs, because of the 4-mob-cap curse upon the gwf.
Errr... stop smoking the grass.
On bosses, my damage goes down the drain and in terms of control i can't compete with a CW.
All the bosses may spawn adds, however, they're either tons of ranged adds at opposite sides of the room or come in much smaller numbers over the course of the fight, wich really isn't useful for a GWF.
Topping meters is pretty irrelevant, its just a way to feed e-peen to the elitists.
As an Instigator, majority of my damage is meter padding, done from AoE trash killing.
Trash is, in my personal opinion, filler content and rather irrelevant for anything but damage meters.
Boss fights is where the challenges lie and where the strenght of each class really comes into play, not one that a GWF currently lacks, but one that is far to situational to be valuable.
Unless you're lucky enough to get bunched up adds. Wich happens with the help of Arcane Singularity, but not nearly enough to take full advantage of the GWFs strenghts.
I'm lucky my guild is very pro GWF and we have some great CW who play to their strengths.
GWF in its current state have amazing survivablity, and single target damage.
However, they have no hard taunt, or real threat pushers. giving such (aoe one) would vastly improve gwf desirability and damage output)
Also, because of my CW experience, i have to say. GWF aoe is laughable. it has cap limits, where CW does not. the AOE damage skills do pitiful damage. its not even half of what a CW puts out, the aoe skills alone are half of what a CW ones are on tooltip AND CWs aoes have no limits (most of the ones we use anyway).
Give GWF a hard taunt, good threat building. and you got yourself a real deal breaker. (Oh and give them better aoe damage, and buff one of those useless (buff) feats to give him a passive damage shield or something)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
What skills are you using for single target damage? I've just started and am not too worried about topping charts, but it does seem to take at least 2 or 3 times longer than any other class to kill anything. I'd like to know at what point the class gets the skills to "catch up"?
Level 60 with all BiS gear and enchantments.
I have never had trouble keeping up with TR's in dmg. In single target heavy dungeons they will beat me in overall dmg and I am totally fine with that. That is what TR's are great at. I feel like the GWF has a very respected role to play in groups who know how to use them. GWF's make dungeons easier and smoother for the group. Like someone else said, basically any spec can off tank if its needed. Even dps specs have decent survivability and can become immune to CC. If the GF and CW are having trouble keeping boss/adds off of the DC, GWF's have lots of tools to keep the DC out of reach of the mobs. Also by doing enough dmg can take aggro from the DC. Our AoE dps is simply amazing if played correctly, especially if paired with a CW that isnt flinging mobs 200 ft away when they are at 10% hp remaining.
In summary, I personally have not experienced the GWF being a "Dead" class. I often get thanked by DC's and CW's for helping with add control and saving their butts on occasion. I have never once not been able to finish a dungeon because of not being able to kill the last boss. I think the community is realizing that the GWF, especially if played towards is strengths can be a very powerful addition to a group.
Pirate king adds do not need to be killed(till after) Frozen heart people kill the adds? Never seen it, never done, would love to. Karrundax they do die but it's not urgent in any way. I'm talking last bosses on each of those instances.
Are you implying that you can just skip all those bosses? Otherwise, how are you going to get to the last boss, if you don't beat the bosses leading up to it?
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
No offense, but it's this type of mentality that's keeping the class buried under ground. I have a 60 GWF, and I really enjoy playing it. When I join my buddies in T2s, I know it is not because we needed a GWF. If the DC or CW goes AFK or disconnects, the entire party needs to stop and wait. However if it was the GWF, the party keeps on trucking. I am not saying the class is useless, but certainly not providing any crucial function.
The devs took the easy way out in the last patch and knew that the majority of players will be happy just because they are seeing bigger numbers on the screen and moving up the Damage meter. All those GWF players who constantly complained about the DPS of the class, got what they wanted. But doing an extra 5/10/15% damage was NEVER the real issue of the class. Stop asking for more DPS, and demand useful utilities.
I am beginning to believe that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the class, but rather the content itself. Every T2 is tailored for CWs. To prove my point, imagine a new T2 where the majority of trash mobs are CC immune. When such a content exists, GWFs will be a lot more useful.
I have 60's of every class all geared, There's is nothing at all wrong with the GWF they are desired in group when played well you can provide valuable dps, but sadly the community takes awhile to change their thinking, they need to see that GWF are better than CW's at add control but alot of people wont even give them a chance, the skill of CW is to put them all in once place and punt (mostly) the GWF can kill them, I have run many many times in every role in dungeons you do not need class for dps/control in any dungeon (apart form 1 cw in never last boss you just can't dps the adds down fast enough)
GWF are designed to kill adds thats your job in pve. (we have also tried to make single target dps and tanking GWF's as a guild and just cant make them work well enough and this includes using BiS gear gwf tanks just don't (defenses are fine) hold enough aggro and you cant put out single target dps like a geared TR) your job is add murder.
ANd you can run most dungeons without a cleric, we've done it and healed only using pots had trouble in spellplague and dread vault and you sadly do need a cleric for never (only one we failed to run without a cleric) you burn alot and I do mean alot of pots but it can be done.
Don't just think outside the box, destroy it and jump up and down on its box like shredded corpse of mediocrity.
I don't think you're following what I am saying. It's funny that you mentioned you needed a CW to bunch up the mobs in a perfect bundle for you. So you're saying that the BULK of your damage comes from having a CW in a party. Take the CW out of the party, your damage will plummet since you'll be running trying to hit 1-3 targets at a time. Now take the GWF out of the party and replace him with another dps CW. You get just as much AoE damage (eventhough most GWFs players are still in denial about that).
I run with GWFs, I have a 60 GWF, I know the content very well, and I know that it can be cleared with just about any group mix. But that is COMPLETELY besides the point. They are fun, they are viable, they are not useless. But there is no way you can convince me that taking a GWF in a party instead of a second CW would be more efficient. I also dont understand why some people take such criticism of the class as personal attacks directed towards them, and then start talking about their accomplishments with GWFs.
I have run on my GWF without a CW many many times, and good GWF is far far more useful than in a CW in any dungeon bar castle never (sadly you need 1 CW) a geared and skilled GWF can put out more damage on target provide a large Mitigation debuff and in a pinch can off tank while providing add control, I would take 2 GWF's over 2 CW's anyday of the week, but ideally I prefer groups of 1 of each class.
Thats quite sad, a Good gwf with smoke any rogue with the new change's, maybe this only happens when your 12K+ gearscore running perfect's, I may have a skewed opinion of the GWF because most of my guild is 11k+ with greater's or perfect's running BiS, A geared GWF is a damage monster usually running 1 - 1.2 mil above geared Rogues and way above geared CW's, this may be the core of the issue GWF are very gear dependent.
Make avalanche of steel faster to land so we can actually CC using our ability to gain AP.
There shouldn't be a cap on CaGI, dunno if there is currently and if they get to a certain range of the GWF they should be stunned for a short time.
I think making Avalanche faster would help out our lack of CC, maybe free moving when slow but clicking stops you from moving but drops you faster. This'll help the DC out and would also help the CW with a painless singularity. Also the quicker drop would be great for reviving too.
Yea I guess this is where our experience is completely different, unless of course you meant to compare a "good" GWF with a subpar CW.
CWs bundle adds together and punt them over the side because "we can", not because we lack the AoE to melt them down. My spec for example is exactly for that purpose, maximum AoE dps, while STILL maintaining the option to punt adds whenever I want. There is no way a GWF will come close to the AoE Range/Radius of a properly slotted CW. Get 5 mobs within 12' in a 260degree and GWF will reach his max dps potential. Outside of that perfect setup, a CW can do more AoE damage, without sacrificing an ounce of their CC ability AND also providing party damage buffs and/or Targets mitigation debuffs.
You personally may opt for 2 GWFs over 2 CWs any day of the week, but I think you are in a very small minority who think similarly.
there are other higher CW thats can do better in certain situations but a well geared GWF with the new changes is a damage monster.
OK, I don't think there is room to even debate this. You actually are claiming that the recent patch increased a GWF's damage by 100%?! My last parsed CN run pre-patch, without punting any adds over the side, without any wipes, my CW had about 30mil. Using your scenario, a GWF would have went from 20mil to 40mil damage? You really expect me to believe the patch doubled GWF's damage output?