They are. We just give them the crappy dread drops and be done with it. (Sword Knot from second boss, t-2 cruddo Final boss Two handers. > CN weapons.) It saves everyone a huge headache. We can take them and wipe over and over again, or we take 2 GF's and make millions on....
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ioannides5Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
THere's only so much damage that can be done (mobs have only so much hp), so a 50% statistical increase is impossible, but yes with the reduced cd's and fixed feat's/skills increased base damage the DPS buff to the GWF is Huge, it seems to require alot of gear though from what people have been saying on this and other forums a good GWF will now top damage and this is against geared groups 12+ with perfect's, I don't think you've seen what a GWF can do now its quite simply very impressive.
Only idiots are crying over over-all damage. Good GWFs are crying over the role, or utility a GWF brings to the dungeon. I play a GWF, I'm 9/10 #1 on the damage charts (mind you I'm BIS across the board), but yet, my guild mates still are hesitant to bring me to castle never. Why? Its not the damage GWFs do, that's fine (reaping strike needs major changes/buffs, but besides that, everything else is fine), it's what they bring to the dungeon. With fights like the last boss in spell plague, and draco still currently in the game, the GWF's usefulness to the party is next to nothing. We're AoE dps, we kill adds. When you have dungeon design where the goal is for the CW to just launch everything off edges, that completely takes away the roll of the GWF. Until they change the draco fight (put invisible walls, and tone down the adds), to make it more GWF-friendly, the fact stands GWFs serve no purpose in CN, and still are a gimped class.
Only idiots are crying over over-all damage. Good GWFs are crying over the role, or utility a GWF brings to the dungeon. I play a GWF, I'm 9/10 #1 on the damage charts (mind you I'm BIS across the board), but yet, my guild mates still are hesitant to bring me to castle never. Why? Its not the damage GWFs do, that's fine (reaping strike needs major changes/buffs, but besides that, everything else is fine), it's what they bring to the dungeon. With fights like the last boss in spell plague, and draco still currently in the game, the GWF's usefulness to the party is next to nothing. We're AoE dps, we kill adds. When you have dungeon design where the goal is for the CW to just launch everything off edges, that completely takes away the roll of the GWF. Until they change the draco fight (put invisible walls, and tone down the adds), to make it more GWF-friendly, the fact stands GWFs serve no purpose in CN, and still are a gimped class.
This is pretty much the truth, same goes for GF; You'll see GWF and GF replaced by one Rogue, just to burn down boss 3 and Draco. Draco kind of requires 2 X CW for an easy run and people like easy because Chest = money. Then you have the fact that you'll see a lot of CN groups skipping most of the content.
Bottom line is Good GWF are amazing, you need them
Pug's and people who exploit don't want them because they skip content (add killing) and don't understand the benefits a GWF brings to a group
This makes pointless thread like this one about how bad GWF's are even when they are amazing.
Bottom line is Good GWF are amazing, you need them
Pug's and people who exploit don't want them because they skip content (add killing) and don't understand the benefits a GWF brings to a group
This makes pointless thread like this one about how bad GWF's are even when they are amazing.
Are you blind or something?
1) knocking adds off edges during the last boss in spellplague and draco IS NOT an exploit, it's how the fight is intended to be done. The fight is INTENDED to be anti-GWF (on that note, so is knocking off trash off of ANY edge during dungeons, it's intended in the game design). The game designers have unintentionally made the GWF useless in most occasions in dungeons.
2) Good GWFs are amazing, but they are NO WHERE NEAR needed. In most dungeons actually, they are actually a burden to the team, rather then just stacking a more useful class (spell plague, CN, frozen heart to an extent).
3) You keep bringing up exploiting, and skipping content, no where in my post did I mention this. I'm talking about INTENTIONAL game design (a.k.a draco fight), where the game design is set up for you to knock adds off the edge. This is the biggest issue regarding GWF usefulness to dungeons. GWFs are NOT needed, and not very useful. Want to change this? eliminate knocking adds off edges.
Please actually read my posts from now on before you post your uneducated HAMSTER.
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toughguylolMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
GWF isnt needed for any content, if you want to argue a point, argue about their damage
arguing that having a gwf is necessary is plain dumb and you arent gonna win on that front.
Why would a party take a gwf?
1. Add Control - Replace with a CW and CW does it better
So many have said this already, And I will say this also. GWFs dont add anything apart from damage, and any class can damage, in the right spec/build.
They just don't offer anything other classes can do better. control, damage, ulitity, debuffs. GWF do not excel in any of these. The only thing id say they got going for them in survivability, but that doesnt actually help the group much, when there are those who are not so.
tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I wouldn't consider myself a great player, but my GWF's gearscore is only 9.6k and I top the damage dealt meter all the time, competing with players that have much higher gearscores. The damage is definitely there. If you're having problems doing damage, maybe the issue can be found somewhere between your chair and the keyboard. The real problem with the class is less of a problem with the class and more of a problem with the design of the majority of dungeon encounters. In most cases, it's actually easier to just stack Rogues for killing the boss and CW/DC's for kiting the adds endlessly. After the boss is dead, everyone intentionally wipes to reset the adds and they proceed to collect their loot. The encounters encourage this behavior because to do it any other way is much more difficult. There's not much reason to bring a GF and even less of a reason to bring the GWF. The GWF is great at what it does, but what it does is just not needed or wanted simply because of the design of the dungeon encounters themselves. Anyone who doesn't see this is either obtuse, inexperienced, or both.
Exactly what I said back on page 1. Right now the current content hurts both fighter classes since to be honest we are not needed. I would love to see the utility for both classes increased to worthwhile levels since right now it is just pants..
Sure we can top damage tables but that doesnt mean the run went any smoother than it would have with a second CW or a TR for the end boss.
Are you implying that you can just skip all those bosses? Otherwise, how are you going to get to the last boss, if you don't beat the bosses leading up to it?
You dont have to kill any of the adds on any of those bosses, just dps bosses until they die, done.
This apply to most of the dungeons if not all of them.
What does damage matter? Much less, aoe damage? There aren't tank n spanks with enrage timers in this game. Trash mobs are trash. You get your CW/DC in a solid rotation managing adds and you can continue indefinitely. You pick classes that supplement this. TRs speed things up with big elites and bosses. GFs can grab aggro and protect the core combo. Pick more of either depending on how safe or fast you want things to go. GWFs can do a little of both but versatility is never a something to bring to the table even if one of the core classes dies. If Cryptic wants to keep going down this design route with GWFs then balance in that direction.
Idea: Get bonuses when someone on your team dies.
- GF dies. GWF gets bonus to threat generation and tankiness.
- TR dies. GWF gets bonus damage on at-wills and encounters.
- DC dies. Unstoppable transfers bonuses to party members. Stack HP, temp 20% of 35k is 7k. Almost half to CWs/Rogues.
- CW dies. Bonus CC to core powers. Come and Get It huge radius increase. Not so fast -> knockdowns. Reaping strike -> knockbacks.
Iron out the details, but let GWFs be a "safety net" when bad luck strikes. If the TR lag spikes and gets knocked into the pit on Spellplague, you shouldn't just reset because it's faster. Then if the CW dies you shouldn't gg quit because no one can kick adds off cliffs. Keep the core classes strong at what they do, let GWFs sub in when they need to. Worse dps than bringing 2 TRs, worse control than 2 CWs, worse protection than 2 DCs; but at least you have some reassurance because you brought along a GWF.
2 GWFS, 3 TRs, 2 GFs, 1 HR, 1 CW
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toughguylolMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What does damage matter? Much less, aoe damage? There aren't tank n spanks with enrage timers in this game. Trash mobs are trash. You get your CW/DC in a solid rotation managing adds and you can continue indefinitely. You pick classes that supplement this. TRs speed things up with big elites and bosses. GFs can grab aggro and protect the core combo. Pick more of either depending on how safe or fast you want things to go. GWFs can do a little of both but versatility is never a something to bring to the table even if one of the core classes dies. If Cryptic wants to keep going down this design route with GWFs then balance in that direction.
Idea: Get bonuses when someone on your team dies.
- GF dies. GWF gets bonus to threat generation and tankiness.
- TR dies. GWF gets bonus damage on at-wills and encounters.
- DC dies. Unstoppable transfers bonuses to party members. Stack HP, temp 20% of 35k is 7k. Almost half to CWs/Rogues.
- CW dies. Bonus CC to core powers. Come and Get It huge radius increase. Not so fast -> knockdowns. Reaping strike -> knockbacks.
Iron out the details, but let GWFs be a "safety net" when bad luck strikes. If the TR lag spikes and gets knocked into the pit on Spellplague, you shouldn't just reset because it's faster. Then if the CW dies you shouldn't gg quit because no one can kick adds off cliffs. Keep the core classes strong at what they do, let GWFs sub in when they need to. Worse dps than bringing 2 TRs, worse control than 2 CWs, worse protection than 2 DCs; but at least you have some reassurance because you brought along a GWF.
this sounds like a good fix, but at endgame you dont make mistakes, so a gwf would never be needed anyway
gwf needs its own spot carved out for it, and i feel the only way to do it is to tweak dungeons
Lol @ bad GWFs making exuses for poor performance.
Never mentioned once about GWF poor performance. The problem Is we can't get a group for CN or Dread Vaults because no one wants us. If dat is the case everyone is performing poorly enough as GWF that no one wants them in there group for these dungeons. If to perform great as GWF you need to buy all the drops that you can't get in CN to be compareable then there is something seriously wrong with the class. Not talking damage or defenses but the GWF needs a stronger roll in the party. the GF gets part defense buffs. Why not give the GWF party Offesnse buffs that will let the group mow down trash as easily as a single CW can toss things off cliffs. The GWF does not need to be more awesome but if he made everyone awsome we could get groups again.
To those pointing to your kills and overall DPS being high, please note that you're looking at some slightly false information. That particular info is for the full dungeon run, including all trash. GWF's do an amazing job wiping out minions, WMS itself has a HUGE area and is even able to hit foes behind you. This all means you're padding up your numbers like crazy and taking out massive amounts of little foes very quickly.
Where the problem lays is with the LT and above ranking foes. These mobs take forever to get down as a GWF, well over twice the time that it takes for a similarly geared rogue to work through them.
The problem is futher compounded when facing bosses. Our highest level daily power - crescendo - isn't even enough to move an end dungeon boss's HPs one bar down the line. That just seems ludicrous to me. Now it could be I just need to increase my gear score - only at like 9.5k right now and I have a lot of work to do on my spec but don't want to waste diamonds/zen on it - but while clearing the basic adds I feel amazing. I'm a total boss on them, but the moment the LTs come out or if I'm fighting fights that often stick you on a single target, FH/Spider/Mad Dragon/etc, then I can see my DPS just plummet.
As is I can only see a few solutions, I think any one could fix us but more than one would make us overpowered:
1) Make our damaging abilities either scale up in damage based on the mob level we are fighting or simply start with a high base number that's then split when fighting AoE. Example: We attack one target for 300 damage a swing or 10 targets for 75 damage a swing.
2) Drastically improve our AP gain. As in we should be able to hit a daily every 6-encounter powers, yes some of us are already doing this with clever mob positioning and "Roar," but what it comes down to is that every 20-seconds or so we should be cranking out a daily power.
3) Grant large amounts of determination based on enemies struck. Allow the invincible buff to be maintained through damage dished while invincible.
Either way I do NOT think we are in a bad place right now. I think overall the GWF is a plus to any group, we pair well and synergyze with the 5-man group of one of each class. CW's make us amazing at adding a lot of hurt, TR's keep us cranking out lots of combat advantage, clerics give us someone to protect - this one is huge since many ranged minions go right after them and we can do a great job keeping hurlers/spitters/archers under wraps - and the competent GF's I've ran with are able to mass control tons of mobs that allow the rest of the group to get in there and crush the foes.
last phase of Spellplague last boss. i tank all mobs while my group can concentrate on burning boss.
To clarify, I'm pretty sure this person is referring to the portion where enemies are unaffected by pushes, not the rest of the fight. (an added bonus is a GWF is good for grabbing new spawns and bringing them to the ledge before the TR aggroes them).
last phase of Spellplague last boss. i tank all mobs while my group can concentrate on burning boss.
The DC can do that too, and just as well, leaving 4 party member to dps the boss. The GWF taking the adds in the final phase, leaves only 3 party members to dps the boss.
last phase of Spellplague last boss. i tank all mobs while my group can concentrate on burning boss.
last phase pf Spellplague perma stealth TR goes to work while rest of the party either jumps around or even jumps into lava suicide mod just for lolz cause 1 TR can do it in under a minute.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis - RIFT
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited June 2013
Before buff
"lol your damage/kills are so bad/worse than CW!"
After buff
"lol damage dealt/kills don't matter!"
I hope you realize that no future dungeons will have ledges. I can't wait for the tears.
Before buff
"lol your damage/kills are so bad/worse than CW!"
After buff
"lol damage dealt/kills don't matter!"
I hope you realize that no future dungeons will have ledges. I can't wait for the tears.
2 CW are much better then 1 CW 1 GWF. double singularity + double steal time is unbeatable. What happens is ALL adds just stand stunned\frozen 100% of the time.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
It seems an easy fix would be to just give GWFs a way to knock **** over the ledges too, this seems to be the disparity with the class, at least from what I have read. Just add a knock back to roar or something so we can fill our AP and get slam turned on to go grab adds while running around to pull to a ledge and poof rinse repeat.
2 CW are much better then 1 CW 1 GWF. double singularity + double steal time is unbeatable. What happens is ALL adds just stand stunned\frozen 100% of the time.
You know the likely fix will be to nerf doubling up on CWs for this. So easy to just add a debuff to mobs effected by this ability to make them immune to the same ability for x seconds where x would be the CD for the ability.
Not saying it would force people to take a GWF instead but if GWFs were given some utility it would provide more incentive for groups.
Utility should have been given to us with last patch not increased dmg..dmg wasn't a problem prepatch..utility not as a knockoff cliff though (too boring)..give a sleep strike that affects a certain decent amount of mobs (not heaps) and fight rest of mobs away from that group as not to waken them with nearby combat and that will add a better challenging dungeon run. If CW can have a similar sized group (not heaps though) that can be knocked off cliff in one hit and the rest put to sleep by gwf I think that would be fair to both aoe CW and aoe GWF.
The dps of GWF is awesome depending on the gear scale, but not many people have yet to witness them. Just give utility Cryptic you shouldn't have given more dps.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
I don't think it is a terrible design, you could knock stuff off ledges in SWTOR and it was intended there as well, one boss had to be killed this way as that is how it was scripted. The bad part is that it renders most part of the GWF as pointless, if they had the ability to do this as well it would provide them a use.
I don't think they should just nerf wizards but they need to encourage not stacking them in a group. If the GWF was the enabler for CW to drop stuff off cliffs it would provide more synergy and add incentive to bring the GWF as well
Edit: what I mean by enabler is the guy who rounds up the mobs and positions them.
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krazeiefuryMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Edit: what I mean by enabler is the guy who rounds up the mobs and positions them.
Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't Come and Get It do this? I use it all the time to bring mobs in for the chop shop of death warmed over. You could easily suck them in to the edge of the map and then they are ripe for pushing over the edge by many classes. I my self prefer to kil them rather than push over the edge. In a very few instances it is better to push them off than kill them.( spellplague end boss)
Maybe we need a bigger range and more threat on this ability but, it does serve a purpose if used correctly. I am not sentinel spec'd either although you would get more out of this ability if I was.
I don't understand the complaints here.
Someone mentioned that GWF's are up and comming and they are.
I used to be not wanted in groups, until I showed that I could hold my own.
And from the rest of the guys in my guild, they say that the dungeon runs are going even smoother now with a GWF that can play in
the group.
Lots of mobs on a boss?
No problem, our CW drops a disco ball ontop of me, and I annihilate the adds in mere seconds while the tank holds the boss and the tr sits on it.
Our everyday group comp, is one of every class and we have no intention of changing that. We're having a blast clearing dungeons as we don't need exploits or anything to kill the bosses, no Singularity off the edges, no wall jumping or anything.
Sure, it's not as fast as the people who exploit the game mechanics and physics to get their stuff, but we're sure as hell having a better time doing what the dungeon wants us to. Explore and clear it out.
GWF's doesn't bing anything to a group?
1. Combat advantage as a buff, increasing everyons damage, and can be applied via aoe attacks to every single mob.
2. Defence reduction on mobs, can be applied via aoe abilities
3. Can take a massive beating compared to other classes, and have fairly good sustain.
I don't get the problem. People just need to stop being singleminded and try different things.
Comments
You're pretty ****ty guild mates, assuming the gwfs in vent are in your guild.
Only idiots are crying over over-all damage. Good GWFs are crying over the role, or utility a GWF brings to the dungeon. I play a GWF, I'm 9/10 #1 on the damage charts (mind you I'm BIS across the board), but yet, my guild mates still are hesitant to bring me to castle never. Why? Its not the damage GWFs do, that's fine (reaping strike needs major changes/buffs, but besides that, everything else is fine), it's what they bring to the dungeon. With fights like the last boss in spell plague, and draco still currently in the game, the GWF's usefulness to the party is next to nothing. We're AoE dps, we kill adds. When you have dungeon design where the goal is for the CW to just launch everything off edges, that completely takes away the roll of the GWF. Until they change the draco fight (put invisible walls, and tone down the adds), to make it more GWF-friendly, the fact stands GWFs serve no purpose in CN, and still are a gimped class.
This is pretty much the truth, same goes for GF; You'll see GWF and GF replaced by one Rogue, just to burn down boss 3 and Draco. Draco kind of requires 2 X CW for an easy run and people like easy because Chest = money. Then you have the fact that you'll see a lot of CN groups skipping most of the content.
Find a non-expolit guild
Run with them
Bottom line is Good GWF are amazing, you need them
Pug's and people who exploit don't want them because they skip content (add killing) and don't understand the benefits a GWF brings to a group
This makes pointless thread like this one about how bad GWF's are even when they are amazing.
Are you blind or something?
1) knocking adds off edges during the last boss in spellplague and draco IS NOT an exploit, it's how the fight is intended to be done. The fight is INTENDED to be anti-GWF (on that note, so is knocking off trash off of ANY edge during dungeons, it's intended in the game design). The game designers have unintentionally made the GWF useless in most occasions in dungeons.
2) Good GWFs are amazing, but they are NO WHERE NEAR needed. In most dungeons actually, they are actually a burden to the team, rather then just stacking a more useful class (spell plague, CN, frozen heart to an extent).
3) You keep bringing up exploiting, and skipping content, no where in my post did I mention this. I'm talking about INTENTIONAL game design (a.k.a draco fight), where the game design is set up for you to knock adds off the edge. This is the biggest issue regarding GWF usefulness to dungeons. GWFs are NOT needed, and not very useful. Want to change this? eliminate knocking adds off edges.
Please actually read my posts from now on before you post your uneducated HAMSTER.
arguing that having a gwf is necessary is plain dumb and you arent gonna win on that front.
Why would a party take a gwf?
1. Add Control - Replace with a CW and CW does it better
2. AOE Damage - The only point you can argue
3. Single Target DPS - TR, the end
They just don't offer anything other classes can do better. control, damage, ulitity, debuffs. GWF do not excel in any of these. The only thing id say they got going for them in survivability, but that doesnt actually help the group much, when there are those who are not so.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Sure we can top damage tables but that doesnt mean the run went any smoother than it would have with a second CW or a TR for the end boss.
You dont have to kill any of the adds on any of those bosses, just dps bosses until they die, done.
This apply to most of the dungeons if not all of them.
Idea: Get bonuses when someone on your team dies.
- GF dies. GWF gets bonus to threat generation and tankiness.
- TR dies. GWF gets bonus damage on at-wills and encounters.
- DC dies. Unstoppable transfers bonuses to party members. Stack HP, temp 20% of 35k is 7k. Almost half to CWs/Rogues.
- CW dies. Bonus CC to core powers. Come and Get It huge radius increase. Not so fast -> knockdowns. Reaping strike -> knockbacks.
Iron out the details, but let GWFs be a "safety net" when bad luck strikes. If the TR lag spikes and gets knocked into the pit on Spellplague, you shouldn't just reset because it's faster. Then if the CW dies you shouldn't gg quit because no one can kick adds off cliffs. Keep the core classes strong at what they do, let GWFs sub in when they need to. Worse dps than bringing 2 TRs, worse control than 2 CWs, worse protection than 2 DCs; but at least you have some reassurance because you brought along a GWF.
this sounds like a good fix, but at endgame you dont make mistakes, so a gwf would never be needed anyway
gwf needs its own spot carved out for it, and i feel the only way to do it is to tweak dungeons
Yeah sure but endgame teams also clear content 4man apparently. So bring a gwf to clear trash up to the boss and then keep them to reduce risk.
Never mentioned once about GWF poor performance. The problem Is we can't get a group for CN or Dread Vaults because no one wants us. If dat is the case everyone is performing poorly enough as GWF that no one wants them in there group for these dungeons. If to perform great as GWF you need to buy all the drops that you can't get in CN to be compareable then there is something seriously wrong with the class. Not talking damage or defenses but the GWF needs a stronger roll in the party. the GF gets part defense buffs. Why not give the GWF party Offesnse buffs that will let the group mow down trash as easily as a single CW can toss things off cliffs. The GWF does not need to be more awesome but if he made everyone awsome we could get groups again.
Where the problem lays is with the LT and above ranking foes. These mobs take forever to get down as a GWF, well over twice the time that it takes for a similarly geared rogue to work through them.
The problem is futher compounded when facing bosses. Our highest level daily power - crescendo - isn't even enough to move an end dungeon boss's HPs one bar down the line. That just seems ludicrous to me. Now it could be I just need to increase my gear score - only at like 9.5k right now and I have a lot of work to do on my spec but don't want to waste diamonds/zen on it - but while clearing the basic adds I feel amazing. I'm a total boss on them, but the moment the LTs come out or if I'm fighting fights that often stick you on a single target, FH/Spider/Mad Dragon/etc, then I can see my DPS just plummet.
As is I can only see a few solutions, I think any one could fix us but more than one would make us overpowered:
1) Make our damaging abilities either scale up in damage based on the mob level we are fighting or simply start with a high base number that's then split when fighting AoE. Example: We attack one target for 300 damage a swing or 10 targets for 75 damage a swing.
2) Drastically improve our AP gain. As in we should be able to hit a daily every 6-encounter powers, yes some of us are already doing this with clever mob positioning and "Roar," but what it comes down to is that every 20-seconds or so we should be cranking out a daily power.
3) Grant large amounts of determination based on enemies struck. Allow the invincible buff to be maintained through damage dished while invincible.
Either way I do NOT think we are in a bad place right now. I think overall the GWF is a plus to any group, we pair well and synergyze with the 5-man group of one of each class. CW's make us amazing at adding a lot of hurt, TR's keep us cranking out lots of combat advantage, clerics give us someone to protect - this one is huge since many ranged minions go right after them and we can do a great job keeping hurlers/spitters/archers under wraps - and the competent GF's I've ran with are able to mass control tons of mobs that allow the rest of the group to get in there and crush the foes.
To clarify, I'm pretty sure this person is referring to the portion where enemies are unaffected by pushes, not the rest of the fight. (an added bonus is a GWF is good for grabbing new spawns and bringing them to the ledge before the TR aggroes them).
The DC can do that too, and just as well, leaving 4 party member to dps the boss. The GWF taking the adds in the final phase, leaves only 3 party members to dps the boss.
last phase pf Spellplague perma stealth TR goes to work while rest of the party either jumps around or even jumps into lava suicide mod just for lolz cause 1 TR can do it in under a minute.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
"lol your damage/kills are so bad/worse than CW!"
After buff
"lol damage dealt/kills don't matter!"
I hope you realize that no future dungeons will have ledges. I can't wait for the tears.
2 CW are much better then 1 CW 1 GWF. double singularity + double steal time is unbeatable. What happens is ALL adds just stand stunned\frozen 100% of the time.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
You know the likely fix will be to nerf doubling up on CWs for this. So easy to just add a debuff to mobs effected by this ability to make them immune to the same ability for x seconds where x would be the CD for the ability.
Not saying it would force people to take a GWF instead but if GWFs were given some utility it would provide more incentive for groups.
The dps of GWF is awesome depending on the gear scale, but not many people have yet to witness them. Just give utility Cryptic you shouldn't have given more dps.
In the end it all boils down to the terrible design of this game.
I don't think they should just nerf wizards but they need to encourage not stacking them in a group. If the GWF was the enabler for CW to drop stuff off cliffs it would provide more synergy and add incentive to bring the GWF as well
Edit: what I mean by enabler is the guy who rounds up the mobs and positions them.
Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't Come and Get It do this? I use it all the time to bring mobs in for the chop shop of death warmed over. You could easily suck them in to the edge of the map and then they are ripe for pushing over the edge by many classes. I my self prefer to kil them rather than push over the edge. In a very few instances it is better to push them off than kill them.( spellplague end boss)
Maybe we need a bigger range and more threat on this ability but, it does serve a purpose if used correctly. I am not sentinel spec'd either although you would get more out of this ability if I was.
Someone mentioned that GWF's are up and comming and they are.
I used to be not wanted in groups, until I showed that I could hold my own.
And from the rest of the guys in my guild, they say that the dungeon runs are going even smoother now with a GWF that can play in
the group.
Lots of mobs on a boss?
No problem, our CW drops a disco ball ontop of me, and I annihilate the adds in mere seconds while the tank holds the boss and the tr sits on it.
Our everyday group comp, is one of every class and we have no intention of changing that. We're having a blast clearing dungeons as we don't need exploits or anything to kill the bosses, no Singularity off the edges, no wall jumping or anything.
Sure, it's not as fast as the people who exploit the game mechanics and physics to get their stuff, but we're sure as hell having a better time doing what the dungeon wants us to. Explore and clear it out.
GWF's doesn't bing anything to a group?
1. Combat advantage as a buff, increasing everyons damage, and can be applied via aoe attacks to every single mob.
2. Defence reduction on mobs, can be applied via aoe abilities
3. Can take a massive beating compared to other classes, and have fairly good sustain.
I don't get the problem. People just need to stop being singleminded and try different things.