Dude your a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Just face it you state clearly rogues should win 1v1 and what the rest should just line up and take it. I can tell you right now im not here for your entertainment use as a punching bag you complete and utter fool.
You are so lost it would be impossible to bring you back to reality. Its a game and every person who plays which ever class they play wants an even chance to play equally in pvp.
I dont even know.
If you can't handle an adult conversation without insulting people, maybe it's time to take a break from the forums.
Yes, rogues should have an advantage in one-to-one fights. This is because of their role in the game. The role of the class in dungeons is to burst down high-priority single targets with high-damaging attacks. This makes them excel in one-to-one combat. The other classes have different roles, as they are different classes. Guardian Fighters have the advantage when holding a capture point. They are able to soak up damage and disable enemies until help arrives, or until their opponent simply gets tired and runs off to find another node to capture. GWF excel at group combat with AoE damage and powerful stunlocks. They excel in situations where both teams are ganging one capture node. Control Wizards have powerful ranged attacks and great control capabilities. They excel at range and if they are smart, often top the charts in terms of kills because their AoE skills are incredibly useful. Clerics heals. They'll never be out-damaging anyone or controlling capture points as good as a tank - but what they can do is aid their team with heals and make tanks nearly unkillable. They are the ultimate teamplayer.
Everyone has their role, but you want to take the rogue's away from him. I'm not "being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>". I simply understand MMO mechanics. You do not. No amount of explaining is going to keep you from whining that you can't easily kill the single target DPS class in single combat, because you want to be great at everything. If the single target DPS class doesn't have an advantage is single-target fights, then what purpose does it serve?
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Clerics can't heal for **** when people are getting hit by 10-30k crits how do you expect a cleric to heal through that dmg. Current dmg is too **** high for cleric heals to matter.
Clerics can't heal for **** when people are getting hit by 10-30k crits how do you expect a cleric to heal through that dmg. Current dmg is too **** high for cleric heals to matter.
You're right. The problem isn't with the other classes though, the problem is with the clerics. They don't have effective healing. What they need are healing buffs. This is a much better idea that simply nerfing everyone else to the point of uselessness.
Before the "balancing update", Guardian Fighters and GWF were useless. Now they are very strong at their intended roles. They didn't have to nerf the other classes to make them stronger, they just needed to buff their ability to dish out damage, tank, and stun.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
I don't expect clerics to heal through 10k and 30k crits. I expect them to anticipate this happening and use Break the Spirit on a person who is about to deal massive damage (to reduce their damage output, thereby making those shiny crits and dailies less lethal) and then Astral Shield or Hallowed Ground the teammate who's getting focused, and to do this with the correct timing so that the person about to get bursted ends up not actually dying, and is then able to turn around and kill the attacker instead before (if needed) slipping away to grab a health pack.
I also expect the DC to use Divine Glow during large teamfights to swing the fight in favor of his or her team, and occasionally to use it against single targets to help with squishing them faster, or to have Chains of Blazing Light or Sunburst loaded when they will help with certain point control strategies on specific maps.
I don't really expect a DC to heal much in PvP, so much as I expect them to buff/debuff and support: in that capacity they're far more effective than people give them credit for.
Having used them, I can attest that the Feats the boost Soothing Light (Desperate Renewal and Divine Advantage for instance) seem much more useful in PvP than in PvE (though they have their limited uses in PvE too). Since PvP fights hinge so much on bursts of damage effectively wiping someone off the map, that bit of extra healing and that (mostly) negation of Combat Advantage is very useful. Even one or two points in Divine Advantage and like three in Desperate Renewal was enough for me to get noticeable results when performing clutch saves with Soothing Light on someone getting bursted inside my Astral Shield, particularly if that person was already a tanky character.
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dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
2. No, all classes are not "equal". Otherwise they would not be different classes. All classes have their roles. Rogues SHOULD dominate one vs. one fights because they are the single target DPS class. If they don't, then they are broken. Period. GWF and GF should be holding points, and difficult to kill. Control Wizards should be dominant at range. Clerics shouldn't even be worried about killing, honestly. The fact that you want everyone to be equal at everything suggests that you don't understand class systems, and don't understand MMOs.
Correcting my grammar when you don't even understand that things can be equal and still different. Spend more time actually learning the meanings of the words.
Rogues should dominate 1 v 1 or they are broken, another gem. You are using the mostly agreed upon point of rogues should be best single target PVE DPS to mean they should be PVP gods. Right now rogues have better PVP survivability than GF and better PVP CC than CW. Assuming you have no issues losing those since they don't fit your description of what a rogue should do, so we agree nerf those and move on. Now to be best PVE DPS you don't need 30k hits to initiate combat. A short build time as your damage ramps up still allows you to do your PVE job as stated. Ah and since rogues are about single target DPS and all other classes are about AE damage to control adds Rogues should be last on damage meters in dungeons since 90% of the damage done there is AE trash stuff.
Great, glad we agree on a rogues role and how to fix their issues.
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bayne3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If you see a GWF go unstoppable, you run away and let him/her waste it. You don't stand there in melee and continue casting.
If you see a GWF go unstoppable, you run away and let him/her waste it. You don't stand there in melee and continue casting.
Except I've seen GWFs go unstoppable four times in a 1v1 and drink potions at the same time. Kind of hard to take down a 38k GWF with greater tenebrous proccing for over 1k a proc.
GFs are much easier to take down compared to those tanks.
I think we can all agree that every class is op besides the one you are currently playing. This is what all the "pvp is broken" posts boil down to.
Maybe every class is op if played correctly? No, that cant be right. I am a boss!! If i cant murder everything at a whim than everyone else is OOOOOPPPP!!!! I am, obviously, doing everything 100% correct- at all times. So therefore i am not the problem. Everyone else is the problem!!
Haha people talking about "skill" as if it's even relevant in a game where stunlocking is easy and there's no counters to such attacks. There's no PvP trinkets or such. Especially Clerics can not do **** against CC, and as healers we can't aoe the rogues out of stealth. We're sitting ducks and the main focus of the opposite team.
And for all TR's and CW's here whining about other classes, you're all pathetic. And for you CW/TR's who think it's about skill, please do realize there's basically no way to counter your stuns/silences/etc. You're massive idiots.
I PVP a lot, and have met many good players who know how to deal with stealthy rogues. After playing a stealthy rogue so much, I can deal with them decently with my other level 60's.
You, however, seem more interested in complaining.
What kind of immature one sided responses are these? Honestly? I have 28k HP with high defense, and theres simply no good way to 1v1 a rogue in good gear that has the ranged/crit "Im invis and can take 75% of your health and you cant see me" build.
Its LAUGHABLY broken...like...not even close to being balanced in any way. Get close to them, dodge roll, dodge roll, immune, immune, invis again, throwing daggers FTW- cant target them while they pummel you. Come out of stealth with 2 dodge rolls queued again...Yeah thats not broken at all.
Please...its the most broke build in this game, and there simply is no L2P to it. Ive never seen so many people so afraid of nerfs and in stubborn denial over something so blatant.
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psion6Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
More unnecessary nerfs coming down the pipe. The funny thing is, it won't end here. People got their nerf to Duelist's Fury and Shocking Execution. Now they are going to get their nerf to Clouds of Steel. And they still won't be satisfied. They won't be happy until they can go 1on1 with the single target DPS class. I'm guessing next is Lashing Blade or Lurker's Assault. Hell, maybe the stealth mechanic itself.
What a joke!
Making an argument based on the fact that since Rogues are the #1 DPS class in the game = they should beat everyone 1v1 is exactly the reason you're not a game developer. This is faulty logic from the beginning, and I think thats why you have multiple people calling you out in this thread. Played correctly they have insane survivability and damage, which is just flat broken.
Furthermore, being able to do 50% of someone's health by throwing ranged daggers while being un-targetable is majorly brok-ded- especially considering once someone closes the gap you have two dodge rolls, immunities, and, omg, stealth again FTW. You are the largest class apologist and antagonist against other classes for something so broke that I've seen in MMO history.
When they do nerf cloud of steel and being invisible while you take 50% of someone's health (or more), I will salute them for a job well done, because its simply the right and balanced thing to do. If you still can't excel at the TR without those broken mechanics right now, perhaps its you who needs a big L2P? Yeeeaaah.
Making an argument based on the fact that since Rogues are the #1 DPS class in the game = they should beat everyone 1v1 is exactly the reason you're not a game developer. This is faulty logic from the beginning, and I think thats why you have multiple people calling you out in this thread. Played correctly they have insane survivability and damage, which is just flat broken.
Furthermore, being able to do 50% of someone's health by throwing ranged daggers while being un-targetable is majorly brok-ded- especially considering once someone closes the gap you have two dodge rolls, immunities, and, omg, stealth again FTW. You are the largest class apologist and antagonist against other classes for something so broke that I've seen in MMO history.
When they do nerf cloud of steel and being invisible while you take 50% of someone's health (or more), I will salute them for a job well done, because its simply the right and balanced thing to do. If you still can't excel at the TR without those broken mechanics right now, perhaps its you who needs a big L2P? Yeeeaaah.
It's funny though because the class right now that has insane survivability and damage is a geared out GWF or GF. A geared out GF can two-shot anyone beside another geared out GF.
If you play against hardcore pvp guilds, you will realize TRs are not that bad and learn to loathe a geared out GF or GWF.
Random question: Am I the only TR that is kinda letting go of the (in my case)80%stealth build? I think there's more viable ways to play a rogue. Especially as many people have found more or less working solutions to counter these kind of rogues.
Random question: Am I the only TR that is kinda letting go of the (in my case)80%stealth build? I think there's more viable ways to play a rogue. Especially as many people have found more or less working solutions to counter these kind of rogues.
I am because I've played against some good TRs (in-house and other guilds) that still found me in stealth and impact shot x4 my butt back to spawn lol.
A burst TR with good gear can crit 10K+ per impact shot NOT from stealth or without LA being up.
If 4 out of 5 classes are "overpowered", they are not op. DCs are the only underpowered class right now. The problem with pvp is gearscore range and player skill. I see rogue charge in with no tactics and wonder why they are getting their asses handed too them.
CWs are a RANGED class. What you want them to get in melee range where they already die in one rotation from every class in game except Clerics? They are pathetically soft as hell. Rogues are not that sift and have both effective melee AND ranged attacks. You're point is moot. If CWs had high survivability like say a GF, then you could talk but they don't. It's not anyone's fault but your own if you are trying to take a node while a CW stays at range, nuking you. Any class in game can shut a CW down in a second but the problem is CWs have to stay in the back and behind the melee classes where they are largely ignored.
Gotta agree with Monarrch here. all the def in the world doesn't account for much when the cw is simply dazed or stun locked into the grave. not to mention that the CW is the only class. THE ONLY CLASS! with no resistance or immunity to control. i don't mind that the other classes have this immunity. but i think that singling out the CW not to have a similar ability makes pvp playing as a CW totally unbalanced. either the CW should get an immunity or the other classes should loose theirs. fair is fair. and like monarch said CW's are a ranged class. yes they can feat their magic missile for extra range. but most of the other classes have a method of closing that range gap really really fast. on top of everything else Its a control wizard. the word being control but seeing as all other classes are immune to control and control being the only thing CW has to keep enemies away is worthless. Playing a CW in pvp is simply running out to get killed O_O this most recent event in pvp the team i was on didn't even get past 5 points in the game seeing as a GWF and GF killed off the entire party by themselves.. then the TR camped our spawn site and simply killed us as we spawned before we could move. True. PVP is about gear and skill. but all the gear in the world. all the skill in the world doesn't matter when all the CW skills don't work as advertised. The CW needs an immunity to control just like every other class. thank you for reading =D
I am because I've played against some good TRs (in-house and other guilds) that still found me in stealth and GLOAMING CUT my butt back to spawn lol.
A burst TR with good gear can crit 10 dmg GLOAMING CUT shot EXCLUSIVELY from stealth AND WITH LA being up.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't spoil any more secrets! Or we'll soon be left only w/ gloaming cut and blitz as all the other skills have been removed due to OPness.
I agree with the OP, GF are hitting too high and the knockback needs to be addressed, easy-mode no aim and can't dodge, plus it has decently far range, seriously? Clerics are trash, why are TR perma stealthing?
Before I start, my gear summary, 9.2k gs (t1 pvp CW gear stuff and few pieces of green and blue).
I'm currently fine with Cloud of Steel + stealth combo because 1) it won't spam kill me, it just bring my hp down by 15~30%ish, 2) I can move out of the range since it doesn't cc me, 3) TR normally follow it up with a gap closer which by that time, TR is out of stealth/targetable and I can CC it and hopefully make a comeback. On the other hand, I have huge problem with Impact Shot + stealth.
I've face few TR that just pwn me with impact shot while stealth (I don't know the exact mechanic), it is not funny when I know there is a TR there stealth and can do absolutely nothing about it. I can accept the fact that CW will lose to a TR, but I will not accept on the condition that CW can not do anything except watching 100% go down to 0%. My current tactic with those TR right now is just Tele/walk away and find the nearest Health Potion, which give me low chance to survive and really just stalling my char's death.
I am not asking for a nerf since 1) I am not fully geared to see the effect and 2) the combo is avoidable even thou the chance is low, but I do ask for is pvp damage reduction (you guys work out the reduction precentage).
In the current state of 1v1 pvp, whoever pull off the first successful skill wins - no skill at all, just who pull the trigger faster. As CW, I do know the perks with the right skill set, I can chain DC, TR, and CW to death or chain GF and GWF to retreat. Even thou is feels great, it really only comes down to who got the faster ping. With TR, well they always got the first trigger and that is where the problem comes in.
So before considering nerfing any class/skill, try global pvp damage reduction first - that itself can solve lots of problem. For one, instead of running away from a TR while stealth damaging me as a CW, I can try move in and hunt for it, which currently consider as a suicide mission.
On topic of GWF, in my view as a CW, it is not the GWF's problem (I can kite them all day long and finish them), it is the problem with the pvp system - where in order to win, we must fill the bar to 1000. A well geared and well played GWF can 1) station on a tower and defend against other team long enough for the reinforcement 2) charge into a tower stalling the point gain of other team. What can the other team do? Go head on head with a fully buff up GWF. I think they should modify the pvp system instead.
Before I start, my gear summary, 9.2k gs (t1 pvp CW gear stuff and few pieces of green and blue).
I'm currently fine with Cloud of Steel + stealth combo because 1) it won't spam kill me, it just bring my hp down by 15~30%ish, 2) I can move out of the range since it doesn't cc me, 3) TR normally follow it up with a gap closer which by that time, TR is out of stealth/targetable and I can CC it and hopefully make a comeback. On the other hand, I have huge problem with Impact Shot + stealth.
I've face few TR that just pwn me with impact shot while stealth (I don't know the exact mechanic), it is not funny when I know there is a TR there stealth and can do absolutely nothing about it. I can accept the fact that CW will lose to a TR, but I will not accept on the condition that CW can not do anything except watching 100% go down to 0%. My current tactic with those TR right now is just Tele/walk away and find the nearest Health Potion, which give me low chance to survive and really just stalling my char's death.
I am not asking for a nerf since 1) I am not fully geared to see the effect and 2) the combo is avoidable even thou the chance is low, but I do ask for is pvp damage reduction (you guys work out the reduction precentage).
In the current state of 1v1 pvp, whoever pull off the first successful skill wins - no skill at all, just who pull the trigger faster. As CW, I do know the perks with the right skill set, I can chain DC, TR, and CW to death or chain GF and GWF to retreat. Even thou is feels great, it really only comes down to who got the faster ping. With TR, well they always got the first trigger and that is where the problem comes in.
So before considering nerfing any class/skill, try global pvp damage reduction first - that itself can solve lots of problem. For one, instead of running away from a TR while stealth damaging me as a CW, I can try move in and hunt for it, which currently consider as a suicide mission.
On topic of GWF, in my view as a CW, it is not the GWF's problem (I can kite them all day long and finish them), it is the problem with the pvp system - where in order to win, we must fill the bar to 1000. A well geared and well played GWF can 1) station on a tower and defend against other team long enough for the reinforcement 2) charge into a tower stalling the point gain of other team. What can the other team do? Go head on head with a fully buff up GWF. I think they should modify the pvp system instead.
I can say first hand that you don't know what you are talking about. Why? Because if a rogue uses impact shot from stealth it removes stealth, and it doesn't matter if the rogue just entered stealth and then used impact shot, it will remove stealth.
I should also remind you that Rogue has already recieved 3 dmg reduction nerfs and now you want more? But let me guess you want your wiz to remain unchanged right? Not to mention that lashing blade recieved a 60% damage reduction. Tell me what other classes got a 60% damage reduction? Oh yeah that's right none. And you want more?
This complaining about rogue is never going to end until the class is useless.
Like I say, I don't know the mechanic of Impact Shot, the only reaction I got from it is a TR toss a Impact Shot out of no where, I'm prone (skill locked and unable to Tele) and times that by 3 which means over 70% hp gone if not 100% gone and a good TR will close in and make the kill.
If you read it over again, I am not asking for a damage reduction nerf on TR, I am asking for a damage reduction nerf on the whole pvp, on all classes. I don't mind that TR get those skills roll backed, as long as the pvp isn't just who get the first hit wins.
Like I say, I don't know the mechanic of Impact Shot, the only reaction I got from it is a TR toss a Impact Shot out of no where, I'm prone (skill locked and unable to Tele) and times that by 3 which means over 70% hp gone if not 100% gone and a good TR will close in and make the kill.
If you read it over again, I am not asking for a damage reduction nerf on TR, I am asking for a damage reduction nerf on the whole pvp, on all classes. I don't mind that TR get those skills roll backed, as long as the pvp isn't just who get the first hit wins.
Nonsense. Do you know how many times I've gone charging into a CW camping the point tower (node) and try to slip into stealth to maximize my stealth time so I can close, to only have the wizard stun lock me from 100+m away? Once that happens taking dmg while in stealth without the power perk, it will rip you out of stealth and then the wiz can have a field day.
So don't tell me who gets the first attack (being that a rogue can use stealth) is a disadvantage to you. You have the longest range in the game. Running from a wiz is nearly impossible, and the whole time wiz can spam endless magic missiles and what ever that green ray is called without even needing to move.
Once again, the real reason you are complaining is you don't like rogue, want to see them nerfed to all hell so you can steam roll them without ever dying to them. Because that is what all the complaints are about. It is the one class that has received the most nerfing and still you want more nerfing done to it?
Nonsense. Do you know how many times I've gone charging into a CW camping the point tower (node) and try to slip into stealth to maximize my stealth time so I can close, to only have the wizard stun lock me from 100+m away? Once that happens taking dmg while in stealth without the power perk, it will rip you out of stealth and then the wiz can have a field day.
So don't tell me who gets the first attack (being that a rogue can use stealth) is a disadvantage to you. You have the longest range in the game. Running from a wiz is nearly impossible, and the whole time wiz can spam endless magic missiles and what ever that green ray is called without even needing to move.
Once again, the real reason you are complaining is you don't like rogue, want to see them nerfed to all hell so you can steam roll them without ever dying to them. Because that is what all the complaints are about. It is the one class that has received the most nerfing and still you want more nerfing done to it?
I don't know how you charging in the tower node, if you are seen by the CW, be prepare to get CC'ed. Good TRs I've face either make it to my blind side or stealth before they come into my range. Few times I'm lucky to get the first cc fired to see a TR going stealth get CC and got out of stealth for .25 sec to .5 sec and gone back to stealth again if I can't make the second cc in time.
Like I mention in my first post, I can chain TR to death if I get the rotation off, which I come to the conclusion that the current pvp favor first hit win. That is why I ask for damage reduction for all classes, so instead of a TR being chain to death by a Full CW rotation (including ice blade daily), or a CW spam to death by a stealth TR firing from afar, the CW or TR can have more choices as to what to do with 30% to 50% hp left either charge in while the enemy skills on cool down or dash away for pots and come back for second try.
And I repeat, I ask for nerf for all classes in pvp - a percentage damage reduction to all classes, not just to TR. So please don't twist my words that this reduction only apply to TR.
I can say first hand that you don't know what you are talking about. Why? Because if a rogue uses impact shot from stealth it removes stealth, and it doesn't matter if the rogue just entered stealth and then used impact shot, it will remove stealth.
I should also remind you that Rogue has already recieved 3 dmg reduction nerfs and now you want more? But let me guess you want your wiz to remain unchanged right? Not to mention that lashing blade recieved a 60% damage reduction. Tell me what other classes got a 60% damage reduction? Oh yeah that's right none. And you want more?
This complaining about rogue is never going to end until the class is useless.
Well in his defense, you can back to back chain them(you get +1 if from stealth), which is basically a death sentence if they're within mid health, or you have lurker's assault.
psion6Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Meh..I call BS on engarm anyway. They do 30-50% damage on me when well-geared TR's do cloud of steel rotation in stealth, and Im a well geared GWF. If they are only taking 15-30% on him, he's obviously fighting some very bad rogues.
Also- I do agree that GF's are a bit out of control as well. Even if you have a fast animating attack, you never can beat their knockdown/knockback head to head, can never avoid it, and it keeps you stunned too long. Their damage is also too high. My guild was laughing at Chronos and his little premade in PvP when he was basically using two attacks and every time he took off 50% of your health (I have near 29k HP) with two encounters. We wiped them with a PUG at center, but when they started sending him alone to backcap it was all over.That kind of damage on a GF is a bit out of control, and so is the stun duration and excessive knockback.
But.....I still think the 80% stealth "Im untargetable and can take most of your health down" TR build is the most broke <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in this game in PvP. Other than those issues I think its really close to being well balanced. TR's don't need to be over-nerfed, but the stealth thing while they are doing damage is just a bad mechanic and not balanced in any way.
...They do 30-50% damage on me when well-geared TR's do cloud of steel rotation in stealth, and Im a well geared GWF. If they are only taking 15-30% on him, he's obviously fighting some very bad rogues...
CoS does more damage with longer duration (it has to be continuous), as a CW I can deny that by either Tele out of range (dodge some of those while in Tele) and/or move behind a pillar, jump off a cliff, move around a corner - all in all, as a CW, I have lots of options to counter a CoS tossing TR than a Impact Shot spamming TR.
CoS does more damage with longer duration (it has to be continuous), as a CW I can deny that by either Tele out of range (dodge some of those while in Tele) and/or move behind a pillar, jump off a cliff, move around a corner - all in all, as a CW, I have lots of options to counter a CoS tossing TR than a Impact Shot spamming TR.
Impact shot spamming tr? You know they only get 3 shots of impact shot unless the first shot is from stealth then its max 4 shots. But the first shot removes stealth. So do you call tossing it 3 times spam?
Comments
If you can't handle an adult conversation without insulting people, maybe it's time to take a break from the forums.
Yes, rogues should have an advantage in one-to-one fights. This is because of their role in the game. The role of the class in dungeons is to burst down high-priority single targets with high-damaging attacks. This makes them excel in one-to-one combat. The other classes have different roles, as they are different classes. Guardian Fighters have the advantage when holding a capture point. They are able to soak up damage and disable enemies until help arrives, or until their opponent simply gets tired and runs off to find another node to capture. GWF excel at group combat with AoE damage and powerful stunlocks. They excel in situations where both teams are ganging one capture node. Control Wizards have powerful ranged attacks and great control capabilities. They excel at range and if they are smart, often top the charts in terms of kills because their AoE skills are incredibly useful. Clerics heals. They'll never be out-damaging anyone or controlling capture points as good as a tank - but what they can do is aid their team with heals and make tanks nearly unkillable. They are the ultimate teamplayer.
Everyone has their role, but you want to take the rogue's away from him. I'm not "being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>". I simply understand MMO mechanics. You do not. No amount of explaining is going to keep you from whining that you can't easily kill the single target DPS class in single combat, because you want to be great at everything. If the single target DPS class doesn't have an advantage is single-target fights, then what purpose does it serve?
You're right. The problem isn't with the other classes though, the problem is with the clerics. They don't have effective healing. What they need are healing buffs. This is a much better idea that simply nerfing everyone else to the point of uselessness.
Before the "balancing update", Guardian Fighters and GWF were useless. Now they are very strong at their intended roles. They didn't have to nerf the other classes to make them stronger, they just needed to buff their ability to dish out damage, tank, and stun.
I also expect the DC to use Divine Glow during large teamfights to swing the fight in favor of his or her team, and occasionally to use it against single targets to help with squishing them faster, or to have Chains of Blazing Light or Sunburst loaded when they will help with certain point control strategies on specific maps.
I don't really expect a DC to heal much in PvP, so much as I expect them to buff/debuff and support: in that capacity they're far more effective than people give them credit for.
Having used them, I can attest that the Feats the boost Soothing Light (Desperate Renewal and Divine Advantage for instance) seem much more useful in PvP than in PvE (though they have their limited uses in PvE too). Since PvP fights hinge so much on bursts of damage effectively wiping someone off the map, that bit of extra healing and that (mostly) negation of Combat Advantage is very useful. Even one or two points in Divine Advantage and like three in Desperate Renewal was enough for me to get noticeable results when performing clutch saves with Soothing Light on someone getting bursted inside my Astral Shield, particularly if that person was already a tanky character.
Correcting my grammar when you don't even understand that things can be equal and still different. Spend more time actually learning the meanings of the words.
Rogues should dominate 1 v 1 or they are broken, another gem. You are using the mostly agreed upon point of rogues should be best single target PVE DPS to mean they should be PVP gods. Right now rogues have better PVP survivability than GF and better PVP CC than CW. Assuming you have no issues losing those since they don't fit your description of what a rogue should do, so we agree nerf those and move on. Now to be best PVE DPS you don't need 30k hits to initiate combat. A short build time as your damage ramps up still allows you to do your PVE job as stated. Ah and since rogues are about single target DPS and all other classes are about AE damage to control adds Rogues should be last on damage meters in dungeons since 90% of the damage done there is AE trash stuff.
Great, glad we agree on a rogues role and how to fix their issues.
Except I've seen GWFs go unstoppable four times in a 1v1 and drink potions at the same time. Kind of hard to take down a 38k GWF with greater tenebrous proccing for over 1k a proc.
GFs are much easier to take down compared to those tanks.
Maybe every class is op if played correctly? No, that cant be right. I am a boss!! If i cant murder everything at a whim than everyone else is OOOOOPPPP!!!! I am, obviously, doing everything 100% correct- at all times. So therefore i am not the problem. Everyone else is the problem!!
On behalf of the majority of adult non whining players can I ask just one simple thing? Please Keep your PVP changes out of our PVE!
And for all TR's and CW's here whining about other classes, you're all pathetic. And for you CW/TR's who think it's about skill, please do realize there's basically no way to counter your stuns/silences/etc. You're massive idiots.
What kind of immature one sided responses are these? Honestly? I have 28k HP with high defense, and theres simply no good way to 1v1 a rogue in good gear that has the ranged/crit "Im invis and can take 75% of your health and you cant see me" build.
Its LAUGHABLY broken...like...not even close to being balanced in any way. Get close to them, dodge roll, dodge roll, immune, immune, invis again, throwing daggers FTW- cant target them while they pummel you. Come out of stealth with 2 dodge rolls queued again...Yeah thats not broken at all.
Please...its the most broke build in this game, and there simply is no L2P to it. Ive never seen so many people so afraid of nerfs and in stubborn denial over something so blatant.
Making an argument based on the fact that since Rogues are the #1 DPS class in the game = they should beat everyone 1v1 is exactly the reason you're not a game developer. This is faulty logic from the beginning, and I think thats why you have multiple people calling you out in this thread. Played correctly they have insane survivability and damage, which is just flat broken.
Furthermore, being able to do 50% of someone's health by throwing ranged daggers while being un-targetable is majorly brok-ded- especially considering once someone closes the gap you have two dodge rolls, immunities, and, omg, stealth again FTW. You are the largest class apologist and antagonist against other classes for something so broke that I've seen in MMO history.
When they do nerf cloud of steel and being invisible while you take 50% of someone's health (or more), I will salute them for a job well done, because its simply the right and balanced thing to do. If you still can't excel at the TR without those broken mechanics right now, perhaps its you who needs a big L2P? Yeeeaaah.
It's funny though because the class right now that has insane survivability and damage is a geared out GWF or GF. A geared out GF can two-shot anyone beside another geared out GF.
If you play against hardcore pvp guilds, you will realize TRs are not that bad and learn to loathe a geared out GF or GWF.
I am because I've played against some good TRs (in-house and other guilds) that still found me in stealth and impact shot x4 my butt back to spawn lol.
A burst TR with good gear can crit 10K+ per impact shot NOT from stealth or without LA being up.
Gotta agree with Monarrch here. all the def in the world doesn't account for much when the cw is simply dazed or stun locked into the grave. not to mention that the CW is the only class. THE ONLY CLASS! with no resistance or immunity to control. i don't mind that the other classes have this immunity. but i think that singling out the CW not to have a similar ability makes pvp playing as a CW totally unbalanced. either the CW should get an immunity or the other classes should loose theirs. fair is fair. and like monarch said CW's are a ranged class. yes they can feat their magic missile for extra range. but most of the other classes have a method of closing that range gap really really fast. on top of everything else Its a control wizard. the word being control but seeing as all other classes are immune to control and control being the only thing CW has to keep enemies away is worthless. Playing a CW in pvp is simply running out to get killed O_O this most recent event in pvp the team i was on didn't even get past 5 points in the game seeing as a GWF and GF killed off the entire party by themselves.. then the TR camped our spawn site and simply killed us as we spawned before we could move. True. PVP is about gear and skill. but all the gear in the world. all the skill in the world doesn't matter when all the CW skills don't work as advertised. The CW needs an immunity to control just like every other class. thank you for reading =D
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't spoil any more secrets! Or we'll soon be left only w/ gloaming cut and blitz as all the other skills have been removed due to OPness.
I'm currently fine with Cloud of Steel + stealth combo because 1) it won't spam kill me, it just bring my hp down by 15~30%ish, 2) I can move out of the range since it doesn't cc me, 3) TR normally follow it up with a gap closer which by that time, TR is out of stealth/targetable and I can CC it and hopefully make a comeback. On the other hand, I have huge problem with Impact Shot + stealth.
I've face few TR that just pwn me with impact shot while stealth (I don't know the exact mechanic), it is not funny when I know there is a TR there stealth and can do absolutely nothing about it. I can accept the fact that CW will lose to a TR, but I will not accept on the condition that CW can not do anything except watching 100% go down to 0%. My current tactic with those TR right now is just Tele/walk away and find the nearest Health Potion, which give me low chance to survive and really just stalling my char's death.
I am not asking for a nerf since 1) I am not fully geared to see the effect and 2) the combo is avoidable even thou the chance is low, but I do ask for is pvp damage reduction (you guys work out the reduction precentage).
In the current state of 1v1 pvp, whoever pull off the first successful skill wins - no skill at all, just who pull the trigger faster. As CW, I do know the perks with the right skill set, I can chain DC, TR, and CW to death or chain GF and GWF to retreat. Even thou is feels great, it really only comes down to who got the faster ping. With TR, well they always got the first trigger and that is where the problem comes in.
So before considering nerfing any class/skill, try global pvp damage reduction first - that itself can solve lots of problem. For one, instead of running away from a TR while stealth damaging me as a CW, I can try move in and hunt for it, which currently consider as a suicide mission.
On topic of GWF, in my view as a CW, it is not the GWF's problem (I can kite them all day long and finish them), it is the problem with the pvp system - where in order to win, we must fill the bar to 1000. A well geared and well played GWF can 1) station on a tower and defend against other team long enough for the reinforcement 2) charge into a tower stalling the point gain of other team. What can the other team do? Go head on head with a fully buff up GWF. I think they should modify the pvp system instead.
I can say first hand that you don't know what you are talking about. Why? Because if a rogue uses impact shot from stealth it removes stealth, and it doesn't matter if the rogue just entered stealth and then used impact shot, it will remove stealth.
I should also remind you that Rogue has already recieved 3 dmg reduction nerfs and now you want more? But let me guess you want your wiz to remain unchanged right? Not to mention that lashing blade recieved a 60% damage reduction. Tell me what other classes got a 60% damage reduction? Oh yeah that's right none. And you want more?
This complaining about rogue is never going to end until the class is useless.
If you read it over again, I am not asking for a damage reduction nerf on TR, I am asking for a damage reduction nerf on the whole pvp, on all classes. I don't mind that TR get those skills roll backed, as long as the pvp isn't just who get the first hit wins.
Nonsense. Do you know how many times I've gone charging into a CW camping the point tower (node) and try to slip into stealth to maximize my stealth time so I can close, to only have the wizard stun lock me from 100+m away? Once that happens taking dmg while in stealth without the power perk, it will rip you out of stealth and then the wiz can have a field day.
So don't tell me who gets the first attack (being that a rogue can use stealth) is a disadvantage to you. You have the longest range in the game. Running from a wiz is nearly impossible, and the whole time wiz can spam endless magic missiles and what ever that green ray is called without even needing to move.
Once again, the real reason you are complaining is you don't like rogue, want to see them nerfed to all hell so you can steam roll them without ever dying to them. Because that is what all the complaints are about. It is the one class that has received the most nerfing and still you want more nerfing done to it?
I don't know how you charging in the tower node, if you are seen by the CW, be prepare to get CC'ed. Good TRs I've face either make it to my blind side or stealth before they come into my range. Few times I'm lucky to get the first cc fired to see a TR going stealth get CC and got out of stealth for .25 sec to .5 sec and gone back to stealth again if I can't make the second cc in time.
Like I mention in my first post, I can chain TR to death if I get the rotation off, which I come to the conclusion that the current pvp favor first hit win. That is why I ask for damage reduction for all classes, so instead of a TR being chain to death by a Full CW rotation (including ice blade daily), or a CW spam to death by a stealth TR firing from afar, the CW or TR can have more choices as to what to do with 30% to 50% hp left either charge in while the enemy skills on cool down or dash away for pots and come back for second try.
And I repeat, I ask for nerf for all classes in pvp - a percentage damage reduction to all classes, not just to TR. So please don't twist my words that this reduction only apply to TR.
Well in his defense, you can back to back chain them(you get +1 if from stealth), which is basically a death sentence if they're within mid health, or you have lurker's assault.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
Also- I do agree that GF's are a bit out of control as well. Even if you have a fast animating attack, you never can beat their knockdown/knockback head to head, can never avoid it, and it keeps you stunned too long. Their damage is also too high. My guild was laughing at Chronos and his little premade in PvP when he was basically using two attacks and every time he took off 50% of your health (I have near 29k HP) with two encounters. We wiped them with a PUG at center, but when they started sending him alone to backcap it was all over.That kind of damage on a GF is a bit out of control, and so is the stun duration and excessive knockback.
But.....I still think the 80% stealth "Im untargetable and can take most of your health down" TR build is the most broke <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in this game in PvP. Other than those issues I think its really close to being well balanced. TR's don't need to be over-nerfed, but the stealth thing while they are doing damage is just a bad mechanic and not balanced in any way.
Oh, btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylOlYBCGP0
Nah, thats not broke at all. ; )
CoS does more damage with longer duration (it has to be continuous), as a CW I can deny that by either Tele out of range (dodge some of those while in Tele) and/or move behind a pillar, jump off a cliff, move around a corner - all in all, as a CW, I have lots of options to counter a CoS tossing TR than a Impact Shot spamming TR.
Impact shot spamming tr? You know they only get 3 shots of impact shot unless the first shot is from stealth then its max 4 shots. But the first shot removes stealth. So do you call tossing it 3 times spam?