Hey all, thanks for the PvP feedback! We're continually working to make PvP feel more balanced for all classes. Your feedback is very helpful!
sigh
More unnecessary nerfs coming down the pipe. The funny thing is, it won't end here. People got their nerf to Duelist's Fury and Shocking Execution. Now they are going to get their nerf to Clouds of Steel. And they still won't be satisfied. They won't be happy until they can go 1on1 with the single target DPS class. I'm guessing next is Lashing Blade or Lurker's Assault. Hell, maybe the stealth mechanic itself.
What a joke!
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
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dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
More unnecessary nerfs coming down the pipe. The funny thing is, it won't end here. People got their nerf to Duelist's Fury and Shocking Execution. Now they are going to get their nerf to Clouds of Steel. And they still won't be satisfied. They won't be happy until they can go 1on1 with the single target DPS class. I'm guessing next is Lashing Blade or Lurker's Assault. Hell, maybe the stealth mechanic itself.
What a joke!
People won't be happy until they can go 1 on 1 vs a rogue. They expect their class to be EQUAL to the almighty rogue???? HOW DARE THEY!!!! Your the joke.
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twisted0utlawMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1. Rogues still one shotting with lashing blade and if you do still happen to have any life left, they polish that off with 2-3k cloud if steel strikes from range.
2. Rogues perma-stealthing.
3. Rogues killing you with cloud of steel while never being seen. What the hell is a DPS melee class doing hitting this hard at range while never coming out of stealth? Are you devs even trying at this point?
4. GFs, a plate wearing, shelf carrying class two shotting people. Here is the concept people: high defend/survivability, low DPS. Got it? It's not much harder than that.
5. GFs knocking you down taking 1/4 of you health bar, then it takes you nearly 3 seconds for the get up off the ground animation to finish which by then the GFs cool down is up and you get knocked down again. By the time this is over, you're dead and didn't even get a chance to fight back!?!?! Utter BS.
6. GWFs and this new temporary health buff that every darn one of then are using. I practically have to try to kill them twice which usually doesn't end well unless I get help. Too many damage buffs in the last patch to justify this HAMSTER.
Logging into bgs is becoming a hopeless affair and at this pint I have nothing to look forward too. I have invested a lot if doe into this game and I'm regretting it now. I had hoped that at least maybe a new class would give me interest but that aint happening. I can deal with bugs, I can deal with exploits, I cannot take this amount of imba in PVp. It's stupid to the point of ridiculous now. Losing interest fast.
Hey all, thanks for the PvP feedback! We're continually working to make PvP feel more balanced for all classes. Your feedback is very helpful!
Do you consider what to OP wrote as valid feedback? Because, you know, how do you know that they're not just bad players whining about something that their specific class and build is simply not as effective against?
Omg I have low defence/no defensive skills in my skill slots and getting hit hard, what is this madness? NERF YO! Ermg a high dps rogue is killing a low defence class like a CW fairly easily? Nowaii, this simply won't do.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Hey all, thanks for the PvP feedback! We're continually working to make PvP feel more balanced for all classes. Your feedback is very helpful!
What this means is that the cleric is once again going to be nerfed while the strongest classes are going to receive a very minor nerf in order to justify giving them a ton of new god-like improvements. At this point though, I just don't quite fathom how the cleric could be even more nerfed.... ahhhh, wait, they are going to cut cleric criticals in half while lowering damage and halving even more cleric durations and justify it all by giving clerics more lfe steal... of course their already non-existant healing is going to have to suffer, perhaps minus 80% to self and plus another 20% to all others who amazingly can heal themselves for more than and faster than any cleric ever could
perhaps they will just remove the cleric's feet, or a foot, then they can move by inch-worming or hopping around
Hate to tell you all this, but PvP is never going to get fixed in this game, and hoping so is just a huge waste of time. Save yourself the aggravation and get your PvP fix from someplace else!
1) and 2) Here is a tip... increase your view range. TRs actually kinda become quite visible when you get near them or they get near you. See a transparent TR coming to you... just dodge and run? Or in my case, dodge and disable.
Yeah, because dodging a permanently invisible thing is going to last until you've dodged, as a CW, 3 times and can no longer dodge. On top of that, they put in a secret nerf in the release patch that removes some stamina regen when you DO dodge. It used to increase run speed for a few seconds AND regen 1/2/3/4/5% of your stamina, but that has been removed.
Again... dodging is only a bandaid when they only need to stay in stealth while you increase your distance from them, making it harder to see them while they toss knives at you for 2k crits.
3) Mmm... I usually dodge out of range when I get hit the 1st time. Not really an issue to me.
So you want someone to be NEAR them, close enough to where you can see them, but then you want people to DODGE from them, increasing your distance and making them less visible.
4) and 5) It's a team game... you would be rather stupid to 1v1 a GF... so far in PVP, my usual pvp partner and myself take great pleasure pushing around a GF.
I don't think anyone is arguing the team aspect of the PvP matches. In fact, I point that out quite a bit during PvP sessions.
The problem is there are far too many faceroll melee classes which have insane mobility, insane amounts of damage, and insane amounts of being able to survive. Rogues and GWFs and GFs ALL have the ability to have ridiculous amounts of damage mitigation AND continue to do insane damage. The only real way for a CW to increase their survival is to stack defense and such, while losing damage output. What does that do? It makes you live longer, but still die.
6) Observe the word "temporary". How about you disable that offending GWF and move away while waiting for his health buff to run it's course???
Yes, because that GWF can't become immune to control magic. Seemingly over and over. Especially if they knock you down.
You see, the devs thought it would be GREAT if you had to wait for each and every single animation to COMPLETE before you can move or cast again. This gives the GWF a sickeningly unfair advantage over A LOT of other classes.
Instead of whining about how awesome the other class is.... why don't you learn how to properly play a CW which I assume is your class since it was not included in the list.
Instead of whining about them whining, why don't you try to think your counter arguments through a little better? Nothing you said makes sense when the other player has paid for their skills AND plays a completely faceroll class.
CW has triple dodge skill, which is more then sufficient to safe your behind.
See above. Dodge stamina runs out. With a GWF having stupidly high temporary hitpoints, the ability to SPAM knock you down AND do massive damage, dodge is just a temporary solution to your inevitable death.
CW has sufficient disable skills to keep melees at a comfortable hitting range.
Wow. You sure are redundant. You keep saying the same thing over and over, while not seeing the reality of the problems, because you don't think certain classes need PvP nerfs. They do. It's that simple.
CW has debuffs which everyone seemed to hate so much that it was nerfed, and even so people still hate it. I invest less then $50 and yet I don't find myself having any issues in pvp. Perhaps the problem is not the classes but rather it's you?
I am going to go ahead and doubt the veracity of your statements in this last quote.
I am doubting that you can kill every single TR and GWF, heck, even a GF for that matter, without issues. You either ALWAYS have help at your side, or you are killing bots.
It's clear you don't know other classes abilities. This is so not true, I specced my 60 GF for PVP, went for all the knockbacks, prones, stuns etc. I time them to keep you down as long as possible usually, and when I have used them all.....I have ZERO abilities up. This idea that they are back up before you can get up is flat out ignorance. I tend to then go into guard mode and wait for my abilities to come back up. In other words L2P. Learn how other classes actually work, know thy enemy then maybe you will figure out how to beat them. But I doubt it. You don't seem to want to take that time and just whine.
The only ignorance I see is your complete disregard for the fact that you can BLOCK ad-nauseam until all of your cooldowns are finished.
People do also need to stop building glass cannon equipment / running glass cannon ability loadouts on non-tanking classes and then complaining that they're dying to the single target burst damage class. The "rogue rage" that is still going on seems to be greatly exaggerated, as far as the amount of insta-gibbing that's happening in comparison to how passionately people feel about it.
And yes, there are counters to TRs. For example, my tanking geared, tank-speced GWF eats TRs for breakfast when they're alone. I eat them slowly, and savoringly, but I eat them. With very few exceptions, they aren't getting me off that point alone. In some cases they aren't even taking me down with two.
For anyone playing a DC in PvP, get ready to be the center of a LOT of unwanted attention from your enemies -- and equip and skill yourself accordingly to take advantage of that fact rather than only standing in your shield and dying anyway. Remember, the ace in the hole that DCs have in PvP is that their enemies feel (often correctly) that they MUST kill the DC first or risk losing the confrontation. Bait them! Don't let them initiate on you on their terms; if you do that it's probably already too late. Instead, use your priority target status to set up fights that will be beneficial to your team, and punish enemies that do ignore you by ruining their attempted kills. It's awfully easy to get most PvPers in this game more interested in killing a particular player than in controlling points, and the more you can do that, the easier you make life for your teammates - assuming they are particularly trying to win either, which they may or may not be.
People do also need to stop building glass cannon equipment / running glass cannon ability loadouts on non-tanking classes and then complaining that they're dying to the single target burst damage class. The "rogue rage" that is still going on seems to be greatly exaggerated, as far as the amount of insta-gibbing that's happening in comparison to how passionately people feel about it.
And yes, there are counters to TRs. For example, my tanking geared, tank-speced GWF eats TRs for breakfast when they're alone. I eat them slowly, and savoringly, but I eat them. With very few exceptions, they aren't getting me off that point alone. In some cases they aren't even taking me down with two.
For anyone playing a DC in PvP, get ready to be the center of a LOT of unwanted attention from your enemies -- and equip and skill yourself accordingly to take advantage of that fact rather than only standing in your shield and dying anyway. Remember, the ace in the hole that DCs have in PvP is that their enemies feel (often correctly) that they MUST kill the DC first or risk losing the confrontation. Bait them! Don't let them initiate on you on their terms; if you do that it's probably already too late. Instead, use your priority target status to set up fights that will be beneficial to your team, and punish enemies that do ignore you by ruining their attempted kills. It's awfully easy to get most PvPers in this game more interested in killing a particular player than in controlling points, and the more you can do that, the easier you make life for your teammates - assuming they are particularly trying to win either, which they may or may not be.
have you ever played this game before, cause if you think it is possible to make non-glass cannons you are still going to be killed and die just as fast and in the same amount of attacks against you in PvP whether you go all out offense or all out defense... glass cannon, lol, that's terminology from other games where defense can matter
People do also need to stop building glass cannon equipment / running glass cannon ability loadouts on non-tanking classes and then complaining that they're dying to the single target burst damage class. The "rogue rage" that is still going on seems to be greatly exaggerated, as far as the amount of insta-gibbing that's happening in comparison to how passionately people feel about it.
And yes, there are counters to TRs. For example, my tanking geared, tank-speced GWF eats TRs for breakfast when they're alone. I eat them slowly, and savoringly, but I eat them. With very few exceptions, they aren't getting me off that point alone. In some cases they aren't even taking me down with two.
For anyone playing a DC in PvP, get ready to be the center of a LOT of unwanted attention from your enemies -- and equip and skill yourself accordingly to take advantage of that fact rather than only standing in your shield and dying anyway. Remember, the ace in the hole that DCs have in PvP is that their enemies feel (often correctly) that they MUST kill the DC first or risk losing the confrontation. Bait them! Don't let them initiate on you on their terms; if you do that it's probably already too late. Instead, use your priority target status to set up fights that will be beneficial to your team, and punish enemies that do ignore you by ruining their attempted kills. It's awfully easy to get most PvPers in this game more interested in killing a particular player than in controlling points, and the more you can do that, the easier you make life for your teammates - assuming they are particularly trying to win either, which they may or may not be.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but this is pointless advice. Considering how much it costs to respec, players don't have the ability to run one spec for PvE and one spec for PvP. Sure you can swap out abilities, but you can't change your build on the fly like that. I mean seriously, If am playing my TR, I am not going to spec for defense, This game doesn't cater to players being able to test out different builds for different game methods.
The only part of your post that was correct was about the tactics, but unless your running with a premade, you can forget about tactics. I mean good luck getting the random players in your group to follow directions in an MMO. Hell, half the time you can't even get them to answer you in chat or via voice. In my experience in many MMO's over the past 8 years focusing mainly on PvP, you either run a premade(if you want to have a good experience) or you PUG it(and you get what you get...usually a horrible experience).
I was really excited about this game coming out, and I gave it a shot. I leveled 3 characters a TR, CW and GF. I was gonna level some more, but honestly I got so disgusted with the gameplay and bugs, that I had to stop playing. Not only that, but all my friends left too, because of all the broken gameplay issues. Honestly this game is just now getting to the point it should be beta tested. Yet they are going live cause they are too greedy to wait and make sure they put out a solid product. Doubt this game will even be around within 2 years time, and if it is...it will be another empty wasteland like so many games before it that got released way too early and couldn't deliver what was promised to it's players(who by now have moved on to the next promised game)
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chieftain8489Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm still waiting to see if there will be any 5 v 5 because it always happens that one side or the other is short 1, 2, 3, or even 4 people so it ends up being 1 v 5. How is that fun?
Oh, I don't really think a TR should gear for defense in PvP. You of all classes probably should gear yourself to kill squishy targets as fast as possible, because that (alongside Dazing utility) is pretty much your job.
My advice is more-so geared toward the numerous DCs and CWs (and the occasional fighter) who are mad that you (TRs) can kill them quickly when they haven't even gotten to 2k defense on their gear, engage in fights badly, and don't use encounters that allow them anything resembling crowd control or self protection.
There are indeed no dual-spec options in this game. Some people make multiple characters of the same class as a way of getting around this. I won't comment on that. As far as long-term choices like Feats go, I try to use builds that work wellish in both PvE and PvP, because leveling up two of the same class does not interest me. If I have to pick between the two, I lean toward PvE, as that's what I do more of.
NW was indeed obviously rushed, and the Gauntlgrym PvP map looking like it was ripped off directly (but poorly) from League of Legends: Dominion isn't really helping my opinion any. If I wanna play Dominion I'll log into LoL and play Dominion -- the balance is much better. Though other aspects of the content look like they were probably taken from GW2...
Anyway. I dunno. I want to keep liking NW, but most of my offline friends are rapidly losing interest since reaching 60 and finding out that the dungeon content is buggy and horribly balanced, and it's getting harder to force myself to enjoy the game when the ultimately grind-based gameplay is still so apparent to me despite the convolutions the designers put it through. Even Gauntlgrym, broadly speaking, is little more than a currency grind to get new PvP gear -- which seems to be relatively good for some classes and awful for others -- and it's an enforcedly slow grind due to the limited nature of the events. There's no believable illusion of glory to be gained by being good at Gauntlgrym, either, as there's no genuine competitive aspect to any PvP in this game -- no real matchmaking to speak of, no ratings, etc. So it's in no danger of even lightly competing with League of Legends on the competitive front. As for PvE, once I get bored of the dungeons, I'll probably go back to the original EverQuest. At least it's an honest grind there that is usually fairly transparent, and it has my nostalgia factor sewn up nicely.)
And Rogues are never satisfied till they can face roll any class in game by merit of the class mechanics alone when skill won't even be required.
Read again. I never said rogues shouldn't be able to attack from stealth. I said having a hard hitting ranged attack for a melee class that never, never comes out of stealth while using it is stupid. Do you hobestly think people should never be able to respond to that? Never be able to react to it? Really?
Hard hitting after what... throw number 9? Here's a clue, when you see daggers hitting you, get out of range. Even stealthed you should be able to figure out where they are coming from. Most rogues are stationary when they are spamming CoS, so if you force them to chase you, the damage on the few CoS charges left do squat. It's when you stand there like a moron taking 12 daggers to the face that you are going to feel it. People really need to learn how other classes work and then counter it instead of crying about everything.
Hard hitting after what... throw number 9? Here's a clue, when you see daggers hitting you, get out of range. Even stealthed you should be able to figure out where they are coming from. Most rogues are stationary when they are spamming CoS, so if you force them to chase you, the damage on the few CoS charges left do squat. It's when you stand there like a moron taking 12 daggers to the face that you are going to feel it. People really need to learn how other classes work and then counter it instead of crying about everything.
There is no animation shown when daggers are thrown from stealth. There is no way to tell where it's coming from when the rogue is stealthed. Considering all the pvp maps are domination, if the rogue gets you to run they've already won the game. I have 3.5k defense, 35% deflect, and 32k hp on my GWF when I pvp, but that doesn't stop a rogue from getting me to half with daggers and finishing me from stealth. This is a serious issue.
There is no animation shown when daggers are thrown from stealth. There is no way to tell where it's coming from when the rogue is stealthed. Considering all the pvp maps are domination, if the rogue gets you to run they've already won the game. I have 3.5k defense, 35% deflect, and 32k hp on my GWF when I pvp, but that doesn't stop a rogue from getting me to half with daggers and finishing me from stealth. This is a serious issue.
I don't know I met some serious geared out GWFs. I'm a TR with full Swash with Dark enchantments rank 7/8, 3.5k power, and 2.3k armor pen and I'm lucky to take them down to half health if my daily isn't up. Spamming CoS from stealth barely brings down their HP.
The only ignorance I see is your complete disregard for the fact that you can BLOCK ad-nauseam until all of your cooldowns are finished.
Don't forgot that GFs can pop Fighter's Recovery if they are getting low on health and just troll you. Some even drink potions at the same time for more trolling lol.
I think reducing global pvp dmg by 30-40% would make it more fun and would make DC's viable as they will be able to heal some of the dmg dealt, and maybe make everyone CC immune for 1 second after first CC has ended. That would give everyone time to react.
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dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So, the way I pvp as a wizard in this game is as follows:
1. Find the easy targets and find the hard targets.
2. Easy targets are not a threat so burst them down as fast as possible.
3. This cuts down on the other teams field presence and makes it much easier for there to be 2v1s in my teams favor.
4. Play with friends so that you whine with them and figure out solutions to problems.
Just thought I would throw in my two cents. I haven't really seen anything "op" while using this strategy; just obnoxious. That being said, I love to claim stuff is op all the **** time while I'm in the throws of glorious combat.
It's clear you don't know other classes abilities. This is so not true, I specced my 60 GF for PVP, went for all the knockbacks, prones, stuns etc. I time them to keep you down as long as possible usually, and when I have used them all.....I have ZERO abilities up. This idea that they are back up before you can get up is flat out ignorance. I tend to then go into guard mode and wait for my abilities to come back up. In other words L2P. Learn how other classes actually work, know thy enemy then maybe you will figure out how to beat them. But I doubt it. You don't seem to want to take that time and just whine.
as cw they just keep they Shield up Blocks evryting you throw at them until abilities are ready again
People won't be happy until they can go 1 on 1 vs a rogue. They expect their class to be EQUAL to the almighty rogue???? HOW DARE THEY!!!! Your the joke.
1. It is spelled "you're."
2. No, all classes are not "equal". Otherwise they would not be different classes. All classes have their roles. Rogues SHOULD dominate one vs. one fights because they are the single target DPS class. If they don't, then they are broken. Period. GWF and GF should be holding points, and difficult to kill. Control Wizards should be dominant at range. Clerics shouldn't even be worried about killing, honestly. The fact that you want everyone to be equal at everything suggests that you don't understand class systems, and don't understand MMOs.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Rouge should not hit hard from range and Gf need a cooldown with that shield bash.
If Clouds of Steel shouldn't hit hard, then it shouldn't have limited charges. It's an At-Will. If it doesn't hit hard, it's pointless.
If they nerf the damage, they better remove charges or the entire thing is useless. Just like they made Shocking Execution. Instead of slowly reducing the damage in increments depending on how much HP your opponent has, they just did a wide-sweeping nerf of it's total damage. Now it's completely pointless, and rogues just use other skills which do more damage than it ever did. Making skills utterly useless is not "balance".
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
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kotliMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 577
edited June 2013
The OP forgotten one big thing levels and Gear. If as I expect he just moved up a bracket the gear difference can be huge this is really true if he just dinged 60 and is fighting characters with best in game gear or nearly best in game.
As for Clouds of Steel just use a dodge, this will break the damage boost the rouge get for hitting you multiple times even if your still in range.
As for preventing OHKs by skills if they dont want to kill in one hit to do x% of hp as damage up to Y damage total? Other games do this already.
Dude from what I'm seeing in this thread.. And I may be wrong but you're a Control Wizard that used to be OP but isn't anymore? Either way a simple solution to CWs are to lower their damage output. Why? Because its a "Control" Wizard not a "Damage" Wizard. In my mind that's the biggest mistakes the devs made in giving CW so much damage output. Lower damage/increase CC times. Nuff said.
As for Rogues, I'm one, and I do think the attack in stealth is a bit unfair. So why don't the devs make it so that in stealth at-wills aren't usable but in exchange have the "stealth effect" last longer. What I mean is if the ability causes the person to be dazed for 3 seconds normally now they're dazed for 6 seconds in stealth (with damage being the same as out of stealth). In all honesty TRs are the second biggest mistake the devs made. "Trickster" Rogue not "Killer" Rogue. Another support class who's role is to keep the opposition off balance. GWF is supposed to be the only real DPS class and GF is the supposed to be the only real Tank class and DC is fine as they are (I met DCs that I couldn't kill before so if they can do it, then everyone can do it "Learn to play your toon").
With that being said PvP scoring is also a BIG mistake. You see GFs or GWFs or even DCs trying to sneak cap. Other times everybody just runs around to cap because its +300. Its stupid man. Have something that each class NEEDS to do in order to get the +300. For instance GF is a tank right? Give him +300 for staying on a node in his team's possession for X seconds (because it means he was actually doing his job DEFENDING the node). Give a DC +300 for reviving someone because that's their job to keep people ALIVE. Give GWFs +300 (so GWFs can possible get 400) for each kill and give CWs +300 for each assist and give TRs +300 for each cap. There you have a PvP system with depth! Pay me! Because I just gave you something that will make your game so much better!
Yeah i think your right increase the daze to 6 secs lolololololololololololololololol
2. No, all classes are not "equal". Otherwise they would not be different classes. All classes have their roles. Rogues SHOULD dominate one vs. one fights because they are the single target DPS class. If they don't, then they are broken. Period. GWF and GF should be holding points, and difficult to kill. Control Wizards should be dominant at range. Clerics shouldn't even be worried about killing, honestly. The fact that you want everyone to be equal at everything suggests that you don't understand class systems, and don't understand MMOs.
Dude YOU'RE a ..... Just face it you state clearly rogues should win 1v1 and what the rest should just line up and take it. I can tell you right now im not here for your entertainment use as a punching bag you complete and utter fool.
You are so lost it would be impossible to bring you back to reality. Its a game and every person who plays which ever class they play wants an even chance to play equally in pvp.
Comments
sigh
More unnecessary nerfs coming down the pipe. The funny thing is, it won't end here. People got their nerf to Duelist's Fury and Shocking Execution. Now they are going to get their nerf to Clouds of Steel. And they still won't be satisfied. They won't be happy until they can go 1on1 with the single target DPS class. I'm guessing next is Lashing Blade or Lurker's Assault. Hell, maybe the stealth mechanic itself.
What a joke!
People won't be happy until they can go 1 on 1 vs a rogue. They expect their class to be EQUAL to the almighty rogue???? HOW DARE THEY!!!! Your the joke.
Whats laughable is this thread
Do you consider what to OP wrote as valid feedback? Because, you know, how do you know that they're not just bad players whining about something that their specific class and build is simply not as effective against?
Omg I have low defence/no defensive skills in my skill slots and getting hit hard, what is this madness? NERF YO! Ermg a high dps rogue is killing a low defence class like a CW fairly easily? Nowaii, this simply won't do.
What this means is that the cleric is once again going to be nerfed while the strongest classes are going to receive a very minor nerf in order to justify giving them a ton of new god-like improvements. At this point though, I just don't quite fathom how the cleric could be even more nerfed.... ahhhh, wait, they are going to cut cleric criticals in half while lowering damage and halving even more cleric durations and justify it all by giving clerics more lfe steal... of course their already non-existant healing is going to have to suffer, perhaps minus 80% to self and plus another 20% to all others who amazingly can heal themselves for more than and faster than any cleric ever could
perhaps they will just remove the cleric's feet, or a foot, then they can move by inch-worming or hopping around
You will thank me for this advice one day.
Cheers!!
Again... dodging is only a bandaid when they only need to stay in stealth while you increase your distance from them, making it harder to see them while they toss knives at you for 2k crits.
Yeah, I guess it's cut and dried for you.
So you want someone to be NEAR them, close enough to where you can see them, but then you want people to DODGE from them, increasing your distance and making them less visible.
Is it just me, or does this not make much sense?
I don't think anyone is arguing the team aspect of the PvP matches. In fact, I point that out quite a bit during PvP sessions.
The problem is there are far too many faceroll melee classes which have insane mobility, insane amounts of damage, and insane amounts of being able to survive. Rogues and GWFs and GFs ALL have the ability to have ridiculous amounts of damage mitigation AND continue to do insane damage. The only real way for a CW to increase their survival is to stack defense and such, while losing damage output. What does that do? It makes you live longer, but still die.
Yes, because that GWF can't become immune to control magic. Seemingly over and over. Especially if they knock you down.
You see, the devs thought it would be GREAT if you had to wait for each and every single animation to COMPLETE before you can move or cast again. This gives the GWF a sickeningly unfair advantage over A LOT of other classes.
Try again.
Instead of whining about them whining, why don't you try to think your counter arguments through a little better? Nothing you said makes sense when the other player has paid for their skills AND plays a completely faceroll class.
See above. Dodge stamina runs out. With a GWF having stupidly high temporary hitpoints, the ability to SPAM knock you down AND do massive damage, dodge is just a temporary solution to your inevitable death.
Wow. You sure are redundant. You keep saying the same thing over and over, while not seeing the reality of the problems, because you don't think certain classes need PvP nerfs. They do. It's that simple.
I am going to go ahead and doubt the veracity of your statements in this last quote.
I am doubting that you can kill every single TR and GWF, heck, even a GF for that matter, without issues. You either ALWAYS have help at your side, or you are killing bots.
newbie rogue extraordinaire
newbie rogue extraordinaire
And yes, there are counters to TRs. For example, my tanking geared, tank-speced GWF eats TRs for breakfast when they're alone. I eat them slowly, and savoringly, but I eat them. With very few exceptions, they aren't getting me off that point alone. In some cases they aren't even taking me down with two.
For anyone playing a DC in PvP, get ready to be the center of a LOT of unwanted attention from your enemies -- and equip and skill yourself accordingly to take advantage of that fact rather than only standing in your shield and dying anyway. Remember, the ace in the hole that DCs have in PvP is that their enemies feel (often correctly) that they MUST kill the DC first or risk losing the confrontation. Bait them! Don't let them initiate on you on their terms; if you do that it's probably already too late. Instead, use your priority target status to set up fights that will be beneficial to your team, and punish enemies that do ignore you by ruining their attempted kills. It's awfully easy to get most PvPers in this game more interested in killing a particular player than in controlling points, and the more you can do that, the easier you make life for your teammates - assuming they are particularly trying to win either, which they may or may not be.
have you ever played this game before, cause if you think it is possible to make non-glass cannons you are still going to be killed and die just as fast and in the same amount of attacks against you in PvP whether you go all out offense or all out defense... glass cannon, lol, that's terminology from other games where defense can matter
Please don't take this the wrong way, but this is pointless advice. Considering how much it costs to respec, players don't have the ability to run one spec for PvE and one spec for PvP. Sure you can swap out abilities, but you can't change your build on the fly like that. I mean seriously, If am playing my TR, I am not going to spec for defense, This game doesn't cater to players being able to test out different builds for different game methods.
The only part of your post that was correct was about the tactics, but unless your running with a premade, you can forget about tactics. I mean good luck getting the random players in your group to follow directions in an MMO. Hell, half the time you can't even get them to answer you in chat or via voice. In my experience in many MMO's over the past 8 years focusing mainly on PvP, you either run a premade(if you want to have a good experience) or you PUG it(and you get what you get...usually a horrible experience).
I was really excited about this game coming out, and I gave it a shot. I leveled 3 characters a TR, CW and GF. I was gonna level some more, but honestly I got so disgusted with the gameplay and bugs, that I had to stop playing. Not only that, but all my friends left too, because of all the broken gameplay issues. Honestly this game is just now getting to the point it should be beta tested. Yet they are going live cause they are too greedy to wait and make sure they put out a solid product. Doubt this game will even be around within 2 years time, and if it is...it will be another empty wasteland like so many games before it that got released way too early and couldn't deliver what was promised to it's players(who by now have moved on to the next promised game)
Oh, I don't really think a TR should gear for defense in PvP. You of all classes probably should gear yourself to kill squishy targets as fast as possible, because that (alongside Dazing utility) is pretty much your job.
My advice is more-so geared toward the numerous DCs and CWs (and the occasional fighter) who are mad that you (TRs) can kill them quickly when they haven't even gotten to 2k defense on their gear, engage in fights badly, and don't use encounters that allow them anything resembling crowd control or self protection.
There are indeed no dual-spec options in this game. Some people make multiple characters of the same class as a way of getting around this. I won't comment on that. As far as long-term choices like Feats go, I try to use builds that work wellish in both PvE and PvP, because leveling up two of the same class does not interest me. If I have to pick between the two, I lean toward PvE, as that's what I do more of.
NW was indeed obviously rushed, and the Gauntlgrym PvP map looking like it was ripped off directly (but poorly) from League of Legends: Dominion isn't really helping my opinion any. If I wanna play Dominion I'll log into LoL and play Dominion -- the balance is much better. Though other aspects of the content look like they were probably taken from GW2...
Anyway. I dunno. I want to keep liking NW, but most of my offline friends are rapidly losing interest since reaching 60 and finding out that the dungeon content is buggy and horribly balanced, and it's getting harder to force myself to enjoy the game when the ultimately grind-based gameplay is still so apparent to me despite the convolutions the designers put it through. Even Gauntlgrym, broadly speaking, is little more than a currency grind to get new PvP gear -- which seems to be relatively good for some classes and awful for others -- and it's an enforcedly slow grind due to the limited nature of the events. There's no believable illusion of glory to be gained by being good at Gauntlgrym, either, as there's no genuine competitive aspect to any PvP in this game -- no real matchmaking to speak of, no ratings, etc. So it's in no danger of even lightly competing with League of Legends on the competitive front. As for PvE, once I get bored of the dungeons, I'll probably go back to the original EverQuest. At least it's an honest grind there that is usually fairly transparent, and it has my nostalgia factor sewn up nicely.)
Hard hitting after what... throw number 9? Here's a clue, when you see daggers hitting you, get out of range. Even stealthed you should be able to figure out where they are coming from. Most rogues are stationary when they are spamming CoS, so if you force them to chase you, the damage on the few CoS charges left do squat. It's when you stand there like a moron taking 12 daggers to the face that you are going to feel it. People really need to learn how other classes work and then counter it instead of crying about everything.
There is no animation shown when daggers are thrown from stealth. There is no way to tell where it's coming from when the rogue is stealthed. Considering all the pvp maps are domination, if the rogue gets you to run they've already won the game. I have 3.5k defense, 35% deflect, and 32k hp on my GWF when I pvp, but that doesn't stop a rogue from getting me to half with daggers and finishing me from stealth. This is a serious issue.
I don't know I met some serious geared out GWFs. I'm a TR with full Swash with Dark enchantments rank 7/8, 3.5k power, and 2.3k armor pen and I'm lucky to take them down to half health if my daily isn't up. Spamming CoS from stealth barely brings down their HP.
Don't forgot that GFs can pop Fighter's Recovery if they are getting low on health and just troll you. Some even drink potions at the same time for more trolling lol.
One of the worst quotes I've seen about block. How you can't realize its nearly useless in PVP is beyond me.
1. Find the easy targets and find the hard targets.
2. Easy targets are not a threat so burst them down as fast as possible.
3. This cuts down on the other teams field presence and makes it much easier for there to be 2v1s in my teams favor.
4. Play with friends so that you whine with them and figure out solutions to problems.
Just thought I would throw in my two cents. I haven't really seen anything "op" while using this strategy; just obnoxious. That being said, I love to claim stuff is op all the **** time while I'm in the throws of glorious combat.
Idk which class he plays but from what I read he's some angry guy on the interwebz which is auto 1/10 .
as cw they just keep they Shield up Blocks evryting you throw at them until abilities are ready again
1. It is spelled "you're."
2. No, all classes are not "equal". Otherwise they would not be different classes. All classes have their roles. Rogues SHOULD dominate one vs. one fights because they are the single target DPS class. If they don't, then they are broken. Period. GWF and GF should be holding points, and difficult to kill. Control Wizards should be dominant at range. Clerics shouldn't even be worried about killing, honestly. The fact that you want everyone to be equal at everything suggests that you don't understand class systems, and don't understand MMOs.
If Clouds of Steel shouldn't hit hard, then it shouldn't have limited charges. It's an At-Will. If it doesn't hit hard, it's pointless.
If they nerf the damage, they better remove charges or the entire thing is useless. Just like they made Shocking Execution. Instead of slowly reducing the damage in increments depending on how much HP your opponent has, they just did a wide-sweeping nerf of it's total damage. Now it's completely pointless, and rogues just use other skills which do more damage than it ever did. Making skills utterly useless is not "balance".
As for Clouds of Steel just use a dodge, this will break the damage boost the rouge get for hitting you multiple times even if your still in range.
As for preventing OHKs by skills if they dont want to kill in one hit to do x% of hp as damage up to Y damage total? Other games do this already.
Yeah i think your right increase the daze to 6 secs lolololololololololololololololol
Dude YOU'RE a ..... Just face it you state clearly rogues should win 1v1 and what the rest should just line up and take it. I can tell you right now im not here for your entertainment use as a punching bag you complete and utter fool.
You are so lost it would be impossible to bring you back to reality. Its a game and every person who plays which ever class they play wants an even chance to play equally in pvp.
I dont even know