That is an astronomical difference in a low skill cap gear grinding game.
Could you explain how you get to those figures please?
0
spikespireMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited May 2013
If you have an idea of what you want to do with your class, use the wiki or read the skills in-game and go along your chosen path.Its not that hard, its not like the skills and feats are all hiding from you until you can access them.
It takes alot of reading and study to know exactly how your build will work and what you want to do for yourself and others as a player of PVP or PVE.
I personally have an idea for my CW, and I might need to respec him for when I hit cap and i'll gladly give the 5 bucks or however much it is right now to do so because it will be WORTH IT to do just at least once or twice because I wish to be useful in PVE. By then I should have the build down, and who knows i'll have enough AD by then to even afford a Respec without spending any real cash, or heres an option for Cryptic. Make it like CO for when you hit cap you get ONE Free Respec for your character, anytime after that you gotta pay.
"You know you wanna fondle my dragons."
0
thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you have an idea of what you want to do with your class, use the wiki or read the skills in-game and go along your chosen path.Its not that hard, its not like the skills and feats are all hiding from you until you can access them.
It takes alot of reading and study to know exactly how your build will work and what you want to do for yourself and others as a player of PVP or PVE.
I personally have an idea for my CW, and I might need to respec him for when I hit cap and i'll gladly give the 5 bucks or however much it is right now to do so because it will be WORTH IT to do just at least once or twice because I wish to be useful in PVE. By then I should have the build down, and who knows i'll have enough AD by then to even afford a Respec without spending any real cash, or heres an option for Cryptic. Make it like CO for when you hit cap you get ONE Free Respec for your character, anytime after that you gotta pay.
How can you even consider let alone suggest we dont dare try experimenting or making respecs not cost real cash or a weeks worth of grinding for AD is beyond me.
That is an astronomical difference in a low skill cap gear grinding game.
Also the part in red is wrong, no need to lie to yourself.
You do realize, once you "win" an MMORPG, the game is over. Trying to claim Pay-2-Win in a PvE game is like going to a restaurant only to pay extra to have your waiter eat your food for you so you can be done faster...
...and how is the part in red wrong? You actually think business don't lower prices based on demand?
0
clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
No matter what, kids with no cash will QQ when they can not get whatever they want with a click.. A lot of players are fine with the system making respecs uncommon. Just to off set the cry babys tho, I tossed Neverwinter another $100 for cash shop coin I honestly do not really need or want other than supporting this game.
I am worried that a company who has chosen to make a bold move on respecs, one that will bring gaming back to the style I more enjoy, can once again be pushed around by the whim of people who will not be paying their own part anyway.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
No matter what, kids with no cash will QQ when they can not get whatever they want with a click.. A lot of players are fine with the system making respecs uncommon. Just to off set the cry babys tho, I tossed Neverwinter another $100 for cash shop coin I honestly do not really need or want other than supporting this game.
I am worried that a company who has chosen to make a bold move on respecs, one that will bring gaming back to the style I more enjoy, can once again be pushed around by the whim of people who will not be paying their own part anyway.
I'm not a kid. I have a job and enough money to support myself and my family.
And I don't mind giving out $20 or so every few months to help support the game.
But here is where my problem lies. I am a min/maxxer. I have played MMO's since before Ultima online. I take pride in the fact that I can make my character the best that I can. I take pride that my CW has topped the meters (even over TR's and higher level CW's) every dungeon so far.
In order to do that, I need to spec, respec and respec some more, testing in between each one in order to make sure I have the best possible spec for my class and playstyle.
I don't want to spend $100 every time balancing changes are made just to test out new specs. I don't want to spend $5 every time I want to go from playing PvE to PvP (at least once a day, sometimes more).
Make respecs cost AD, and have it incur increasing costs the more you do it, resetting the cost once a month or something. I'm fine with that.
But for me (or anyone else) to have to grind out AD for 2 weeks just to get one respec is ridiculous.
And let's face another truth. A vast majority of the people playing a game like this aren't Kids with no money, nor are they like you or me who have enough money to put into the game if they so wished. They are working class people who in this economy can't justify putting real money into a game. If they could they would probably be playing WoW.
What's the matter with you people. Why don't you just pretend this is WoW and pay $60 and then $15 more each month in Zen, pace yourself, and see what you can get? You will find the price comparable. Some things will be a little over priced to support the fact you have access to MOST of the game content for ZERO dollars. Then if people don't buy certain things in the cash shop, the price will come down. You don't need to whine about it. The devs not making sales is greater feedback than someone crying o the forums.
If you want to hop between specs for some reason, buy another character slot instead and make two.
This is simply not true.
Without substantive, qualitative feedback, not buying something in the cash shop could indicate a plethora of things. Whether it is lack of percieved worth, lack of value for money (too expensive), not useful enough, not attractive enough.. who knows.
People who make the argument "talk with your wallet" don't know what they are talking about. Forum feedback is FAR more important than simply not buying the item.
You do realize, once you "win" an MMORPG, the game is over. Trying to claim Pay-2-Win in a PvE game is like going to a restaurant only to pay extra to have your waiter eat your food for you so you can be done faster...
...and how is the part in red wrong? You actually think business don't lower prices based on demand?
In this case, the Win in P2W is simply a stand-in, because "Pay to be much stronger than everyone else and yes being stronger than everyone else does matter to a lot of people even if it doesn't matter to you" doesn't make a very nice acronym.
Would you prefer we call it "P2bmsteeaybsteedmtalopeiidmty" so we can stop having these stupid posts that claim that you can't win a PvE MMORPG?
Okay, you said neverwinter is not p2w right? then why i should pay for respect my character build? what i should do if i fail on my build? leveling another char? what i do if i dont have money? play a broken character? stop be greedy or all people leave of your game pls
The game is f2p.. not free to WIN...
Put some thought into your character... plan for end game in your choices... or spend money to respect, or re-roll and do what you should have done to begin with.
I'm not sure where people are getting this zen to respec, i've paid AD to redo feats, not a zen spend there. Powers and ability scores seem to be zen, but i've yet to run into having to pay zen for feat respec.
I'm not a kid. I have a job and enough money to support myself and my family.
And I don't mind giving out $20 or so every few months to help support the game.
But here is where my problem lies. I am a min/maxxer. I have played MMO's since before Ultima online. I take pride in the fact that I can make my character the best that I can. I take pride that my CW has topped the meters (even over TR's and higher level CW's) every dungeon so far.
In order to do that, I need to spec, respec and respec some more, testing in between each one in order to make sure I have the best possible spec for my class and playstyle.
I don't want to spend $100 every time balancing changes are made just to test out new specs. I don't want to spend $5 every time I want to go from playing PvE to PvP (at least once a day, sometimes more).
Make respecs cost AD, and have it incur increasing costs the more you do it, resetting the cost once a month or something. I'm fine with that.
But for me (or anyone else) to have to grind out AD for 2 weeks just to get one respec is ridiculous.
And let's face another truth. A vast majority of the people playing a game like this aren't Kids with no money, nor are they like you or me who have enough money to put into the game if they so wished. They are working class people who in this economy can't justify putting real money into a game. If they could they would probably be playing WoW.
Totally agree with you here, Best reply I've seen yet in this post.
I'm not a kid. I have a job and enough money to support myself and my family.
And I don't mind giving out $20 or so every few months to help support the game.
But here is where my problem lies. I am a min/maxxer. I have played MMO's since before Ultima online. I take pride in the fact that I can make my character the best that I can. I take pride that my CW has topped the meters (even over TR's and higher level CW's) every dungeon so far.
In order to do that, I need to spec, respec and respec some more, testing in between each one in order to make sure I have the best possible spec for my class and playstyle.
I don't want to spend $100 every time balancing changes are made just to test out new specs. I don't want to spend $5 every time I want to go from playing PvE to PvP (at least once a day, sometimes more).
Make respecs cost AD, and have it incur increasing costs the more you do it, resetting the cost once a month or something. I'm fine with that.
But for me (or anyone else) to have to grind out AD for 2 weeks just to get one respec is ridiculous.
And let's face another truth. A vast majority of the people playing a game like this aren't Kids with no money, nor are they like you or me who have enough money to put into the game if they so wished. They are working class people who in this economy can't justify putting real money into a game. If they could they would probably be playing WoW.
Because a game is gonna try and make money. Lots of now are f2p with a shop to buy things. I can't fault a company for that. It also means you either take what you get when you get it for free, or, you pay to do what you want. Either way, it's not the company's fault for trying to make a buck to pay for their FREE TO PLAY game.
At the current rate of things they are headed for a small population of super buyers to support the game. High prices = few buyers & tons of annoyed users, Low prices = lots of buyers and a much happier base as a whole. The current conversion rate from AD to Zen is amazingly awful. The only reason I can think that would be is that no one is selling Zen. Compare the keys here to keys in GW2. Keys here take ~50k AD or probably close to 10 hours of skirmish grinding. Keys in GW2 at launch cost ~45s or less than 30 minutes in a high end zone. Even now they take far less than the 10 hours and you can gain a lot of other stuff while waiting.
TLDR: Neverwinter's cash shop is too expensive for the current user base. Many who have the money don't consider the return worth the current prices. The alternatives take so long they are there only for the sake of being able to say "You can get it by playing".
0
terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
TLDR: Neverwinter's cash shop is too expensive for the current user base. Many who have the money don't consider the return worth the current prices. The alternatives take so long they are there only for the sake of being able to say "You can get it by playing".
Not that I can see. So long as you don't want to change you build every 5 minutes it is easy to buy once from the shop and ignore it for months at a time.
Now if you want to engage in the luxury of respecing at will then yes that will cost you.
UO even had some sort of Re-spec, so have you ever played a real RPG?
Ultima Online respec system is lowering one skill by manually raising another. That's not an instant respec for free that everyone is asking for. That's equivalent to the work it'll take to get one in this game. Unless of course you are talking about later in life when Ultima Online went care bear. I wouldn't know about that.
Do you know why re specs cost so much? It's because they want people to have one build for everything. You know how hard it is to balance classes when people have a pure build for PvE, a Pure build for PvP, and then you have people just want one build that can do all?
$15 does seem like a lot though. $15 in my opinion should be the cost of free re specs for a full day or two. A $15 respec should be the cost of a complete testing of different builds. A one time re spec price should be more like $5.
This is going from what people are saying the price is. I actually haven't checked myself.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
TLDR: Neverwinter's cash shop is too expensive for the current user base. Many who have the money don't consider the return worth the current prices. The alternatives take so long they are there only for the sake of being able to say "You can get it by playing".
The game is basically designed to annoy you if you don't buy stuff on a regular basis and has lots of stuff to hide that from you the first few levels. Throwing lots of junk at you to make you fill your bags (so you buy bags and/or bank slots), respecs costing several days of farming and having multiple currencies where the one that matters is only introduced into the game economy in meaningful quanitites by people buying it. The business model stinks and it puts me off giving the developers any more money. If the game was designed along a subscription model or a buy-to-play/GW2 model or at the very least make playing f2p less like playing a korean MMO it could actually have been a pretty good game, but the aggressive microtransaction/p2w model just ruins the game.
Not that I can see. So long as you don't want to change you build every 5 minutes it is easy to buy once from the shop and ignore it for months at a time.
Now if you want to engage in the luxury of respecing at will then yes that will cost you.
My statement was more of a blanket one and not refering solely to the cost to respec. DAoC had a great method. A couple free respecs along the way otherwise very expensive respecs after that. No problem there imo.
Other things are extremely expensive for what you get. Bags being $10 is crazy. Should be ~4ish with a higher base inventory. Most people would buy 3-5 per character for convenience but at $10 I can't justify it. The astral cost for items seems insanely high. I thought Planetside 2 was high at 10-20 hours to earn a new weapon but some things in this game cost closer to 300. 300 hours for 1 thing is nuts.
seriously? What's wrong with people. $5 is fine. they don't want you re speccing every time you go from PvP to PvE. make a build that does it all, and excels in a few spots. That's the point fella's. Not everyone can do everything at the moment.
Ignore post; I didn't realize the thread was so old.
Although just to add my actual, personal two cents to it: I definitely agree that it's not to the developer's or publisher's advantage to charge ZEN (either in the form of RL currency, or hours, days, or weeks of grinding) for what just about every other MMO gives you with an expenditure of in-game money or once a week or what have you. Letting players experiment with their builds will let them have more fun with the game, both in the sense of discovering new solutions, feeling more powerful/useful, and in the sense of letting them participate in different activities (i.e. PvP plus PvE), meaning they'll plan the game more often and for longer, stay with your game for longer and pay/subscribe for more and for longer.
Comments
Could you explain how you get to those figures please?
It takes alot of reading and study to know exactly how your build will work and what you want to do for yourself and others as a player of PVP or PVE.
I personally have an idea for my CW, and I might need to respec him for when I hit cap and i'll gladly give the 5 bucks or however much it is right now to do so because it will be WORTH IT to do just at least once or twice because I wish to be useful in PVE. By then I should have the build down, and who knows i'll have enough AD by then to even afford a Respec without spending any real cash, or heres an option for Cryptic. Make it like CO for when you hit cap you get ONE Free Respec for your character, anytime after that you gotta pay.
"You know you wanna fondle my dragons."
How can you even consider let alone suggest we dont dare try experimenting or making respecs not cost real cash or a weeks worth of grinding for AD is beyond me.
You do realize, once you "win" an MMORPG, the game is over. Trying to claim Pay-2-Win in a PvE game is like going to a restaurant only to pay extra to have your waiter eat your food for you so you can be done faster...
...and how is the part in red wrong? You actually think business don't lower prices based on demand?
I am worried that a company who has chosen to make a bold move on respecs, one that will bring gaming back to the style I more enjoy, can once again be pushed around by the whim of people who will not be paying their own part anyway.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I'm not a kid. I have a job and enough money to support myself and my family.
And I don't mind giving out $20 or so every few months to help support the game.
But here is where my problem lies. I am a min/maxxer. I have played MMO's since before Ultima online. I take pride in the fact that I can make my character the best that I can. I take pride that my CW has topped the meters (even over TR's and higher level CW's) every dungeon so far.
In order to do that, I need to spec, respec and respec some more, testing in between each one in order to make sure I have the best possible spec for my class and playstyle.
I don't want to spend $100 every time balancing changes are made just to test out new specs. I don't want to spend $5 every time I want to go from playing PvE to PvP (at least once a day, sometimes more).
Make respecs cost AD, and have it incur increasing costs the more you do it, resetting the cost once a month or something. I'm fine with that.
But for me (or anyone else) to have to grind out AD for 2 weeks just to get one respec is ridiculous.
And let's face another truth. A vast majority of the people playing a game like this aren't Kids with no money, nor are they like you or me who have enough money to put into the game if they so wished. They are working class people who in this economy can't justify putting real money into a game. If they could they would probably be playing WoW.
Without substantive, qualitative feedback, not buying something in the cash shop could indicate a plethora of things. Whether it is lack of percieved worth, lack of value for money (too expensive), not useful enough, not attractive enough.. who knows.
People who make the argument "talk with your wallet" don't know what they are talking about. Forum feedback is FAR more important than simply not buying the item.
Would you prefer we call it "P2bmsteeaybsteedmtalopeiidmty" so we can stop having these stupid posts that claim that you can't win a PvE MMORPG?
The game is f2p.. not free to WIN...
Put some thought into your character... plan for end game in your choices... or spend money to respect, or re-roll and do what you should have done to begin with.
Totally agree with you here, Best reply I've seen yet in this post.
Because a game is gonna try and make money. Lots of now are f2p with a shop to buy things. I can't fault a company for that. It also means you either take what you get when you get it for free, or, you pay to do what you want. Either way, it's not the company's fault for trying to make a buck to pay for their FREE TO PLAY game.
TLDR: Neverwinter's cash shop is too expensive for the current user base. Many who have the money don't consider the return worth the current prices. The alternatives take so long they are there only for the sake of being able to say "You can get it by playing".
Not that I can see. So long as you don't want to change you build every 5 minutes it is easy to buy once from the shop and ignore it for months at a time.
Now if you want to engage in the luxury of respecing at will then yes that will cost you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ultima Online respec system is lowering one skill by manually raising another. That's not an instant respec for free that everyone is asking for. That's equivalent to the work it'll take to get one in this game. Unless of course you are talking about later in life when Ultima Online went care bear. I wouldn't know about that.
Do you know why re specs cost so much? It's because they want people to have one build for everything. You know how hard it is to balance classes when people have a pure build for PvE, a Pure build for PvP, and then you have people just want one build that can do all?
$15 does seem like a lot though. $15 in my opinion should be the cost of free re specs for a full day or two. A $15 respec should be the cost of a complete testing of different builds. A one time re spec price should be more like $5.
This is going from what people are saying the price is. I actually haven't checked myself.
$5.00 or 500 zen to buy a respec token.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The game is basically designed to annoy you if you don't buy stuff on a regular basis and has lots of stuff to hide that from you the first few levels. Throwing lots of junk at you to make you fill your bags (so you buy bags and/or bank slots), respecs costing several days of farming and having multiple currencies where the one that matters is only introduced into the game economy in meaningful quanitites by people buying it. The business model stinks and it puts me off giving the developers any more money. If the game was designed along a subscription model or a buy-to-play/GW2 model or at the very least make playing f2p less like playing a korean MMO it could actually have been a pretty good game, but the aggressive microtransaction/p2w model just ruins the game.
My statement was more of a blanket one and not refering solely to the cost to respec. DAoC had a great method. A couple free respecs along the way otherwise very expensive respecs after that. No problem there imo.
Other things are extremely expensive for what you get. Bags being $10 is crazy. Should be ~4ish with a higher base inventory. Most people would buy 3-5 per character for convenience but at $10 I can't justify it. The astral cost for items seems insanely high. I thought Planetside 2 was high at 10-20 hours to earn a new weapon but some things in this game cost closer to 300. 300 hours for 1 thing is nuts.
seriously? What's wrong with people. $5 is fine. they don't want you re speccing every time you go from PvP to PvE. make a build that does it all, and excels in a few spots. That's the point fella's. Not everyone can do everything at the moment.
but you could reroll and rebuy everything with AD
Although just to add my actual, personal two cents to it: I definitely agree that it's not to the developer's or publisher's advantage to charge ZEN (either in the form of RL currency, or hours, days, or weeks of grinding) for what just about every other MMO gives you with an expenditure of in-game money or once a week or what have you. Letting players experiment with their builds will let them have more fun with the game, both in the sense of discovering new solutions, feeling more powerful/useful, and in the sense of letting them participate in different activities (i.e. PvP plus PvE), meaning they'll plan the game more often and for longer, stay with your game for longer and pay/subscribe for more and for longer.