Personally, I'm fine with it. As long as there is a token system which allow us to acquire the same item after 10 runs or so. I hate the RND system and don't feel like making my life goal trying to find one item. Make it like glory system, get enough glory get your bound piece.
I could support this. BOP simply holds folks hostage to the RNG. A problem that will only increase as new classes get added. Each new class will only serve to dilute the loot table making it that much rarer to get the item you want.
No one should have to blindly run content on the hope that they might be able to progress that day. Ask yourselves if XP functioned like loot. Would you still agree with these changes? Would you still play if only randomly, and every few dungeons, would your number come up and you get to level only then?
Players need a way to continue to progress without having to beat their head against the RNG. Gear should be earned and not randomly awarded via luck and lottery.
before the Need/Greed Changes, weren't people actually asking for this?
or am I wrong about this?
I could have sworn that this was one of the more popular solutions to "Ninja" on these boards before they changed Need/Greed. in fact, the second most popular suggestion, behind not being able to Need on items you can't use.
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vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
A lot of people were asking for a Need roll to result in a BoP, and a Greed to result in BoE
Which is actually quite reasonable. That's probably what you are recalling.
before the Need/Greed Changes, weren't people actually asking for this?
or am I wrong about this?
I could have sworn that this was one of the more popular solutions to "Ninja" on these boards before they changed Need/Greed. in fact, the second most popular suggestion, behind not being able to Need on items you can't use.
You are mistaken, it was if you needed it would bind, and greed remained bind on equip. Which makes sense, since if you need it, you are going to be using it.
You are mistaken, it was if you needed it would bind, and greed remained bind on equip. Which makes sense, since if you need it, you are going to be using it.
ok and if the item you want is on the AH for 15 millions of AD, or 100$, and it stays that way because there's very few people that can drops and since there is no money sinks 1% of the server holds 90% of the economy, you might never still get the piece of gear you need, it's irrelevant of the BoP/BoE argument, it's more like a dropping frequency issue.
If it is there for 15m AD i can simply sell the pieces i dont need anymore and buy or,god forbid,trade with people that have what i need,and need what i have.. that however is NOT possible with BoP.. I simply dont like beeing forced to rely on "luck" to gear up. Contrary to many that say it shows skill if you have that item after its BoP,i simply say its luck based,whereas before i could work my way around the silly RNG if i wanted to. Now,if im without rng luck,im screwed,badly... Even tho i got the "skills" to earn my t2 reward,i wont get any.. gg i cant see how that is a win for anyone but the company that obviously creates timesink and prevents too much ZEN beeing made by trading for AD.
The change will not make ppl that are geared want to do the same boring instance again for nothing but a few extra daily unrefined AD... (if you got a nice guild ppl might help you,but random Queues will get hurt even more..) Its not like they are particularly fun after the 100th time,or maybe thats just me.. who knows ^^ other people have different views,and thats fine..
A solution to t2 gear feeling exclusive,or at the very least making it so people have to actually PLAY the instance and not wear gear of it without having done it would be tying it to some sort of achievements that you get when completing the instance. Making it BoP with luck as the main factor of getting or not getting gear is simply BS,and has nothing to do with skill or getting gear feeling like an achievement.. Unless you consider max/min time invested as an achievement
No one should have to blindly run content on the hope that they might be able to progress that day. Ask yourselves if XP functioned like loot. Would you still agree with these changes? Would you still play if only randomly, and every few dungeons, would your number come up and you get to level only then?
Gear should be earned and not randomly awarded via luck and lottery.
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to take a quick second to thank you for taking the time to write up your thoughts on the subject. There are a lot of good points and observations all around and that kind of feedback is invaluable to us. I wanted to make sure that you all knew we were absolutely listening. Keep checking things out and letting us know what you think!
I understand what you are trying to accomplish by making epic gear BoP and would like to offer a better method for you to achieve your goals. What you need to do is ADD another tier set of armor and weapons for each class that is slightly better than the current top tier and then make this new tier BoP. Leave all the current items in the game as they are.
This will:
Encourage hard core players to play longer.
Not alienate your current paying customer base.
Better itemize your dungeons that are sparse on gear as it is.
Allow those that want to buy gear with Zen -> Astral Diamonds to continue to do so which means that you continue to make more money on Zen sales.
Have a top tier prestige set for the players motivated to get it.
What I'm suggesting meets all of your goals for BoP and at the same time has none of the downsides of your current BoP strategy.
One problem I see is that with the new Need/Greed system (which I support) together with this proposed change, it will be very difficult to get class specific equipment for your companion. Playing a CW and getting an end game Icon for my Ioun Stone of Allure will be nigh impossible. Would there be any way to allow sale of Icons, Talismans, Sword Knots, etc. for use by pets? Or is there some other way around the issue -- like being able to roll need on those items?
How would Bind on Pickup benefit a large population of your "beta" testers?
Many people who've been playing the beta for a month+ are geared out with T2-2.5 already. We do dungeons to help new players/guildees to gear them up and hopefully can snag a Greeded Epic to sell for things that don't drop. We DO however, need the AD from Greeding Epics to buy/make our enchant/runestone ranks increase, new pets, new costumes, etc.. ie: higher end/end game gear that DOES NOT DROP ANYWHERE. There is nothing else we can obtain item wise in dungeons aside from soulforged or vorpal shards (again the whole party usually greeds or needs because who doesn't need vorpals?). What will the point be in doing ANY dungeons for these types of players?
We have no end game content other than increasing our enchant/rune ranks and getting Perfects. This will remove ALL incentive to run dungeons period. With the semi-ridiculous class nerfs/"buffs" you've already increased the time to run dungeons so this sort of change will most likely alienate even more of the top players in the game (or fully geared players) because there is nothing to obtain.
How is this fair to newer players to the game?
They'll never be able to compete with any long term players in PvP because their "Time To Gear" (number of dungeons needed to crawl vs getting actually beneficial loot) will be so insanely high they'll most likely abandon any attempt. They'll also never be "allowed" to trade any dropped gear for things they may want in the future either.
How will this benefit all players?
Did we ask for this? Do we want a large portion of the Auction House to become useless or inaccessible to those that don't have AD gathered from beta? What will this do to the central game mechanic of trading? How CAN we obtain higher end enchants/pets/cosmetic foolishness? There are probably a million other questions others might ask...
I'm all for change but I honestly think that the random bullcrap loot dropping system is a completely antiquated system that NO ONE LIKES to begin with. Everyone wants to be, and SHOULD BE, rewarded for their time/effort in a 1-2 hr dungeon regardless if they actually need something. I like the idea of comparing it to Experience Point/level gain or the PvP glory system. You ALWAYS get XP for your time invested, everyone wants to see their Heroes progress higher. There is no sense of accomplishment if you get a useless Bind On Pickup that you already have and can no longer sell for an equivalent piece of gear/enchants etc.. that you DO need. People like progression, it's one of the major reasons why we play. We all want to be better players and get better gear, we also want to be rewarded for time spent. This is a major part of what makes the game fun for some, if not all.
thx
tris
PS. Protector's Enclave Parkour didn't hurt anything and it was a great past-time waiting for queues/friends to join etc.. please remove the invisible rooftop barriers.. it was extremely entertaining.
PPS. Pets: Mentioned a few posts above: how do we equip our pets with off-class specific items.. ???
Yep, not too happy about this if it goes through. It's already incredibly hard for me to get any TR drops in any of the epic dungeons thanks to it being a 'random' drop. Most of the time it's for every other class except TR. I've got 2-3 pieces of my current 60 gear from the AH, and since I bought those pieces they still haven't dropped in any dungeon run I've been in. So had those been BoP items, I'd still be running around in HAMSTER gear. That is one thing that just makes me want to dropkick my PC out a window. Despite the beliefs of some, it is in fact, not fun to do the same dungeon 40 times in a row and getting nothing for it. Don't want to seem like a whiner or anything, I'm just stating my honest opinion and feelings about it. I probably will not be playing too often if this happens. I'll probably still stick around for the Foundry, though. Not too many games have something like that!
Edit: Just thought I'd mention that it's also a pretty standard mechanic in MMO's for it to be BoP if it's a high-end drop from a dungeon/raid/etc. boss. But you know what? It doesn't mean it's fun, or that you should just go with what's been done before. I hate it just as much in those games, too. Some people get their gear in a day or two, while others spend weeks or more. Just one more thing to make Neverwinter more... generic, I guess.
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leftsideoftheyarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
How would Bind on Pickup benefit a large population of your "beta" testers?
Many people who've been playing the beta for a month+ are geared out with T2-2.5 already. We do dungeons to help new players/guildees to gear them up and hopefully can snag a Greeded Epic to sell for things that don't drop. We DO however, need the AD from Greeding Epics to buy/make our enchant/runestone ranks increase, new pets, new costumes, etc.. ie: higher end/end game gear that DOES NOT DROP ANYWHERE. There is nothing else we can obtain item wise in dungeons aside from soulforged or vorpal shards (again the whole party usually greeds or needs because who doesn't need vorpals?). What will the point be in doing ANY dungeons for these types of players?
We have no end game content other than increasing our enchant/rune ranks and getting Perfects. This will remove ALL incentive to run dungeons period. With the semi-ridiculous class nerfs/"buffs" you've already increased the time to run dungeons so this sort of change will most likely alienate even more of the top players in the game (or fully geared players) because there is nothing to obtain.
How is this fair to newer players to the game?
They'll never be able to compete with any long term players in PvP because their "Time To Gear" (number of dungeons needed to crawl vs getting actually beneficial loot) will be so insanely high they'll most likely abandon any attempt. They'll also never be "allowed" to trade any dropped gear for things they may want in the future either.
How will this benefit all players?
Did we ask for this? Do we want a large portion of the Auction House to become useless or inaccessible to those that don't have AD gathered from beta? What will this do to the central game mechanic of trading? How CAN we obtain higher end enchants/pets/cosmetic foolishness? There are probably a million other questions others might ask...
I'm all for change but I honestly think that the random bullcrap loot dropping system is a completely antiquated system that NO ONE LIKES to begin with. Everyone wants to be, and SHOULD BE, rewarded for their time/effort in a 1-2 hr dungeon regardless if they actually need something. I like the idea of comparing it to Experience Point/level gain or the PvP glory system. You ALWAYS get XP for your time invested, everyone wants to see their Heroes progress higher. There is no sense of accomplishment if you get a useless Bind On Pickup that you already have and can no longer sell for an equivalent piece of gear/enchants etc.. that you DO need. People like progression, it's one of the major reasons why we play. We all want to be better players and get better gear, we also want to be rewarded for time spent. This is a major part of what makes the game fun for some, if not all.
thx
tris
PS. Protector's Enclave Parkour didn't hurt anything and it was a great past-time waiting for queues/friends to join etc.. please remove the invisible rooftop barriers.. it was extremely entertaining.
I would agree with most of your comments but there is one glaring one which I vehemently disagree with; the idea that you should be guaranteed loot in a dungeon. No No No. That is not progression that is doing a quest to acquire guaranteed gear. The best stuff SHOULD be hard(er) to get than normal greens and blues. I would instead suggest that the loot tables on the end bosses (no great loot off the scrub bosses to prevent partial clears being useful) be expanded and drops being increased from 1 to 2 or possibly 3 items. This would help the bop but mean that rng could still have its day in court as well as playing a key role in slowing progression. This game HAS NO end game content yet.
I have played gaunt on the ptr and it is pants. The t2 dungeon is less tough than epic cloaked tower (lol) and same for the t1 dungeon. There is no gs req for either (which is w/e cause gs doesnt really matter that much) and that tells you alot about them. The worldmap was great but there really isnt raid content. (downed the blasphemer with a 5 man party so I dont know what a 20 man group will do). There are no raids and cryptic needs to slow prog down as well as speed up and acquire some real end game raids so that the interested pvers and hardcore types can do something other than quit the game.
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to take a quick second to thank you for taking the time to write up your thoughts on the subject. There are a lot of good points and observations all around and that kind of feedback is invaluable to us. I wanted to make sure that you all knew we were absolutely listening. Keep checking things out and letting us know what you think!
-Zeke
I appreciate that you at least seem to be monitoring the thread. I've got to be honest with you though, after the response regarding the nerfs that you received, the fact that you still chose to implement those changes does certainly make people think that you are not listening, or if you ARE listening, then you simply don't care. The vast majority disagreed with the nerfing, and the vast majority disagrees with this move. Are you going to forge ahead with this anyway, even though people hate it? The nerfing made the game less fun to play. This move does the same. There are so many things that need fixing, and so much potential in the game, why not focus on making things better instead of upsetting the playerbase?
Is that all have inferiority complex that matter if all are equipped with full tier2 example, is better that way actually try on the ability of each player, and this patch what will do to remove the facility and get to that equality
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vhladerMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
Hey sgtmoody85,
Just a quick clarification that might answer your question. There are still high end purples that are BoE including gear from Professions (only the gear that comes from upgrading a boss drop was made BoP), as well as one set per class such as the Murderous Jester gear for Trickster Rogues.
The changes are going up on Neverwinter Preview for this weekend, give it a look and let us know what you think!
-Zeke
If I can't need non-class loot in dungeons, and if I can't buy the high end purples I want on the AH, then how am I supposed to get best in slot items for my companions? Companions like the ioun stone make icons for non-clerics functionally equivalent to class items (aside from set bonus).
This will be a problem for all off-hands that companions use (i.e. sword knots, talismans, and icons), and any items that future companions use. You can't need them. You can't buy them on the AH. You can't craft them. And the one set per class of BoE gear is not best in slot. You're basically telling us to rely on groups to roll greed in order to acquire loot, right after changing the need requirements because you determined that we couldn't rely on groups to roll greed. ? confused expression ?
I appreciate that you at least seem to be monitoring the thread. I've got to be honest with you though, after the response regarding the nerfs that you received, the fact that you still chose to implement those changes does certainly make people think that you are not listening, or if you ARE listening, then you simply don't care. The vast majority disagreed with the nerfing, and the vast majority disagrees with this move. Are you going to forge ahead with this anyway, even though people hate it? The nerfing made the game less fun to play. This move does the same. There are so many things that need fixing, and so much potential in the game, why not focus on making things better instead of upsetting the playerbase?
I agree. Half of my friends already started to disappear with the nerf. Some of them don't even care if there's gonna be new content or not. This BoP change will go live. I have no doubts. The decision is already taken.
I'd love to get some dev feedback on what happens with Gauntlgrym drops.
This solves the last bit of QQ about Ninja Needing.
But, it doesn't help guilds stock the Guild Bank. I would hope we would be able to put all items acquired from Guild-Only content in the Guild Bank instead of having everything be Bind on Pick-Up.
In fact, I'd rather have everything in Gauntlgrym be trade-only than Bind on Pick-Up.
Are we supposed to raise our endgame gearscore via AD?
I would agree with most of your comments but there is one glaring one which I vehemently disagree with; the idea that you should be guaranteed loot in a dungeon. No No No. That is not progression that is doing a quest to acquire guaranteed gear. The best stuff SHOULD be hard(er) to get than normal greens and blues. I would instead suggest that the loot tables on the end bosses (no great loot off the scrub bosses to prevent partial clears being useful) be expanded and drops being increased from 1 to 2 or possibly 3 items. This would help the bop but mean that rng could still have its day in court as well as playing a key role in slowing progression. This game HAS NO end game content yet..
I agree with what you're saying to a point re: loot table increased. Right now, one has a 20% chance of obtaining an item from a Dungeon given everyone is geared with equivalent sets. That's pretty crappy % to begin with. Now add in each persons actual desired item from that 20% drop and you're looking at a miniscule percentage. Just seems counter productive to me.
Playing any videogame(aside from MMOs), one expects that time and skill put in will ALWAYS result in a reward. Be it accomplishing a mission, defeating the endboss, new gear to become even more badarse etc.. there needs to be SOME reward for everybody who invests. A Title, a respec token, a silly hat, a shiny new dagger, a unique enchant, something aesthetic, whatever.. it does not matter. As long as the reward is equal to the time investment. What i'm saying is, excluding any discussion about Bound equipment, the current reward of a handful of useless drake seals and a tiny % of getting something you actually want/need does not even remotely come close to adequately reward someone for 1-2 hrs of their time (let alone find a group, prepping party etc..).
In addition, even those drake seal items will become bound to character as per the original statement:
Many End-Game, Purple Loot Items are Changing from Bind-on-Equip to Bind-on-Pickup
Which specific items you say? Most Level 60 Epic Gear from boss drops, tier sets, pvp gear, seal gear, and profession gear that comes from upgrading Bind-on-Pickup boss drops. The purpose of this change is to make these items feel more unique and rewarding to obtain.
There will be no actual reward for high level players to continue playing.
im a full geared dc just waiting on grim to get my reinforced gloves and working on my last enchants if you make this changes and i cannot sell lvl 60 purples what am i supposed to do? i mean surely there will be no point running any dg at all because i cannot sell the items to get my ad and finish my runes. am i reading correctly? please if i understood this wrong can some1 explain it to me? t2 is r6 right? and t1 is r5 or are those also r4? because if they are then i wont have anything to do so ill probably quit. im already unhappy about the amount of bugs there is and adding to that a HAMSTER balance patch so if i also now cannot sell my profit for ad to get my final enchants may as well quit
I don't understand why people are crying about this. A gear treadmill is far more interesting than an enchant treadmill. People are sitting here complaining that they won't be able to get the tier sets they want, or specific jewelery or some such nonsense but that's kind of the point - you most likely don't have perfect enchants with rank 10s either, it's something you work towards, it gives you a reason to play.
The fact that you can also convert gear into a certain amount of AD (hopefully this isn't rough AD) means that you can still PvE for AD, and most things will go down in price according to the amount of AD being rewarded from the salvaging. This is a good change and has been long needed.
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kingnewbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Hey, I appreciate the effort toward fixing the "ninja-loot" thing, but what about this instead: get rid of the class restriction on "Need" and just make items you "Need" bind-on-pickup and items you "Greed" bind-on-equip. Something for everyone.
Alternately, if you insist on these changes, then let me "salvage" the item anywhere, so my tiny inventory isn't such an annoyance. Or let me send my Companion away to salvage them for me.
The purple gear vendor for AD is definitely a welcome change. I've been checking this guy out on the test servers and it gives a bottom price to purple, which is a good idea. And it will make some fresh ADs into the game, which is needed considering how expensive gear appearance changes, feat respecs, and unbinding enchants, is. But i still don't agree with the fact that you will likely kill trade between players in this game. In no way the vendor is giving me what some players would pay for the best T2 set for a given class.
Selling gear is the only way to get some of the lockbox stuff good enchants for "free" (if we consider out time free, hopefully it's not the case). I got my purple mount and some cool store stuff with the ADs i made when i sold some good gear i got from dungeon. I'm sure my ADs made several paying customers happy too.
One advice though, do not make the vendor accepting pvp gear. There are enough bots and AFKs for now. Don't kill pvp, don't make it the way to farm endless rough ADs. Or at least make the vendor accepting at most 1 pvp equipment a day.
And please, fix the dungeon exploits and shortcuts! Make what we get a real achievement by fixing this and making all 3 (or 4 for CN) bosses a mandatory fight to open the final DD chest! Remove campfire races, add invisible walls all around caverns and weird terrain details, and give us hard time fighting tough mobs to get to the boss.
Currently, frozen heart, castle never, karrundax and even pirate with the jumping shortcut are exploited as hell. This is definitely not an "achievement". How could it be? There are so many shortcuts and exploits all around these dungeons...
I'm not one who enjoys running the same handful of dungeons over and over. I'm not happy that the only way for me to gear my character will be via a long and potentially frustrating grind. When PWE first hinted they were looking to make the end game items "feel more unique and rewarding to obtain" I hoped it would be through some positive means such as expanding and differentiating the selection of gear and means to acquire them; not through the negative means of restricting access to those items to dungeon grinding. I am very disappointed.
I was planning on buying Zen this weekend and taking advantage of the various sales in the Zen shop. Once I read about these changes I took that off the table immediately. We'll see where this goes from here.
I don't understand why people are crying about this. A gear treadmill is far more interesting than an enchant treadmill. People are sitting here complaining that they won't be able to get the tier sets they want, or specific jewelery or some such nonsense but that's kind of the point - you most likely don't have perfect enchants with rank 10s either, it's something you work towards, it gives you a reason to play.
The fact that you can also convert gear into a certain amount of AD (hopefully this isn't rough AD) means that you can still PvE for AD, and most things will go down in price according to the amount of AD being rewarded from the salvaging. This is a good change and has been long needed.
Yeah the enchant treadmill just got 10 miles longer bud.
I support this change IF we see Dragon eggs actually drop somewhere at a reasonable % instead of them coming primarily from lock boxes. I like the idea of crafted epics actually being relevant, but this will skyrocket the value of dragon eggs. And if Dragon eggs will still primarily come from the Zen store.... well then you can figure out the rest.
In what way? The price of enchants will change with peoples ability to generate AD.
The enchants will be the only thing which holds any real value.. You ever see what happened to the price of gold when the dollar devalued and gold didn't?
Plague and Tenebrous are going to skyrocket, mark my words. The only way to get them is ZEN, it will now be harder for people to convert AD to ZEN, I think you get the picture. Not to even mention Wards.
Comments
I could support this. BOP simply holds folks hostage to the RNG. A problem that will only increase as new classes get added. Each new class will only serve to dilute the loot table making it that much rarer to get the item you want.
No one should have to blindly run content on the hope that they might be able to progress that day. Ask yourselves if XP functioned like loot. Would you still agree with these changes? Would you still play if only randomly, and every few dungeons, would your number come up and you get to level only then?
Players need a way to continue to progress without having to beat their head against the RNG. Gear should be earned and not randomly awarded via luck and lottery.
before the Need/Greed Changes, weren't people actually asking for this?
or am I wrong about this?
I could have sworn that this was one of the more popular solutions to "Ninja" on these boards before they changed Need/Greed. in fact, the second most popular suggestion, behind not being able to Need on items you can't use.
Which is actually quite reasonable. That's probably what you are recalling.
ah, yes that was it.
If it is there for 15m AD i can simply sell the pieces i dont need anymore and buy or,god forbid,trade with people that have what i need,and need what i have.. that however is NOT possible with BoP.. I simply dont like beeing forced to rely on "luck" to gear up. Contrary to many that say it shows skill if you have that item after its BoP,i simply say its luck based,whereas before i could work my way around the silly RNG if i wanted to. Now,if im without rng luck,im screwed,badly... Even tho i got the "skills" to earn my t2 reward,i wont get any.. gg i cant see how that is a win for anyone but the company that obviously creates timesink and prevents too much ZEN beeing made by trading for AD.
The change will not make ppl that are geared want to do the same boring instance again for nothing but a few extra daily unrefined AD... (if you got a nice guild ppl might help you,but random Queues will get hurt even more..) Its not like they are particularly fun after the 100th time,or maybe thats just me.. who knows ^^ other people have different views,and thats fine..
A solution to t2 gear feeling exclusive,or at the very least making it so people have to actually PLAY the instance and not wear gear of it without having done it would be tying it to some sort of achievements that you get when completing the instance. Making it BoP with luck as the main factor of getting or not getting gear is simply BS,and has nothing to do with skill or getting gear feeling like an achievement.. Unless you consider max/min time invested as an achievement
/sign my words exactly
I just wanted to take a quick second to thank you for taking the time to write up your thoughts on the subject. There are a lot of good points and observations all around and that kind of feedback is invaluable to us. I wanted to make sure that you all knew we were absolutely listening. Keep checking things out and letting us know what you think!
-Zeke
I understand what you are trying to accomplish by making epic gear BoP and would like to offer a better method for you to achieve your goals. What you need to do is ADD another tier set of armor and weapons for each class that is slightly better than the current top tier and then make this new tier BoP. Leave all the current items in the game as they are.
This will:
- Encourage hard core players to play longer.
- Not alienate your current paying customer base.
- Better itemize your dungeons that are sparse on gear as it is.
- Allow those that want to buy gear with Zen -> Astral Diamonds to continue to do so which means that you continue to make more money on Zen sales.
- Have a top tier prestige set for the players motivated to get it.
What I'm suggesting meets all of your goals for BoP and at the same time has none of the downsides of your current BoP strategy.Many people who've been playing the beta for a month+ are geared out with T2-2.5 already. We do dungeons to help new players/guildees to gear them up and hopefully can snag a Greeded Epic to sell for things that don't drop. We DO however, need the AD from Greeding Epics to buy/make our enchant/runestone ranks increase, new pets, new costumes, etc.. ie: higher end/end game gear that DOES NOT DROP ANYWHERE. There is nothing else we can obtain item wise in dungeons aside from soulforged or vorpal shards (again the whole party usually greeds or needs because who doesn't need vorpals?). What will the point be in doing ANY dungeons for these types of players?
We have no end game content other than increasing our enchant/rune ranks and getting Perfects. This will remove ALL incentive to run dungeons period. With the semi-ridiculous class nerfs/"buffs" you've already increased the time to run dungeons so this sort of change will most likely alienate even more of the top players in the game (or fully geared players) because there is nothing to obtain.
How is this fair to newer players to the game?
They'll never be able to compete with any long term players in PvP because their "Time To Gear" (number of dungeons needed to crawl vs getting actually beneficial loot) will be so insanely high they'll most likely abandon any attempt. They'll also never be "allowed" to trade any dropped gear for things they may want in the future either.
How will this benefit all players?
Did we ask for this? Do we want a large portion of the Auction House to become useless or inaccessible to those that don't have AD gathered from beta? What will this do to the central game mechanic of trading? How CAN we obtain higher end enchants/pets/cosmetic foolishness? There are probably a million other questions others might ask...
I'm all for change but I honestly think that the random bullcrap loot dropping system is a completely antiquated system that NO ONE LIKES to begin with. Everyone wants to be, and SHOULD BE, rewarded for their time/effort in a 1-2 hr dungeon regardless if they actually need something. I like the idea of comparing it to Experience Point/level gain or the PvP glory system. You ALWAYS get XP for your time invested, everyone wants to see their Heroes progress higher. There is no sense of accomplishment if you get a useless Bind On Pickup that you already have and can no longer sell for an equivalent piece of gear/enchants etc.. that you DO need. People like progression, it's one of the major reasons why we play. We all want to be better players and get better gear, we also want to be rewarded for time spent. This is a major part of what makes the game fun for some, if not all.
thx
tris
PS. Protector's Enclave Parkour didn't hurt anything and it was a great past-time waiting for queues/friends to join etc.. please remove the invisible rooftop barriers.. it was extremely entertaining.
PPS. Pets: Mentioned a few posts above: how do we equip our pets with off-class specific items.. ???
Edit: Just thought I'd mention that it's also a pretty standard mechanic in MMO's for it to be BoP if it's a high-end drop from a dungeon/raid/etc. boss. But you know what? It doesn't mean it's fun, or that you should just go with what's been done before. I hate it just as much in those games, too. Some people get their gear in a day or two, while others spend weeks or more. Just one more thing to make Neverwinter more... generic, I guess.
I would agree with most of your comments but there is one glaring one which I vehemently disagree with; the idea that you should be guaranteed loot in a dungeon. No No No. That is not progression that is doing a quest to acquire guaranteed gear. The best stuff SHOULD be hard(er) to get than normal greens and blues. I would instead suggest that the loot tables on the end bosses (no great loot off the scrub bosses to prevent partial clears being useful) be expanded and drops being increased from 1 to 2 or possibly 3 items. This would help the bop but mean that rng could still have its day in court as well as playing a key role in slowing progression. This game HAS NO end game content yet.
I have played gaunt on the ptr and it is pants. The t2 dungeon is less tough than epic cloaked tower (lol) and same for the t1 dungeon. There is no gs req for either (which is w/e cause gs doesnt really matter that much) and that tells you alot about them. The worldmap was great but there really isnt raid content. (downed the blasphemer with a 5 man party so I dont know what a 20 man group will do). There are no raids and cryptic needs to slow prog down as well as speed up and acquire some real end game raids so that the interested pvers and hardcore types can do something other than quit the game.
I appreciate that you at least seem to be monitoring the thread. I've got to be honest with you though, after the response regarding the nerfs that you received, the fact that you still chose to implement those changes does certainly make people think that you are not listening, or if you ARE listening, then you simply don't care. The vast majority disagreed with the nerfing, and the vast majority disagrees with this move. Are you going to forge ahead with this anyway, even though people hate it? The nerfing made the game less fun to play. This move does the same. There are so many things that need fixing, and so much potential in the game, why not focus on making things better instead of upsetting the playerbase?
If I can't need non-class loot in dungeons, and if I can't buy the high end purples I want on the AH, then how am I supposed to get best in slot items for my companions? Companions like the ioun stone make icons for non-clerics functionally equivalent to class items (aside from set bonus).
This will be a problem for all off-hands that companions use (i.e. sword knots, talismans, and icons), and any items that future companions use. You can't need them. You can't buy them on the AH. You can't craft them. And the one set per class of BoE gear is not best in slot. You're basically telling us to rely on groups to roll greed in order to acquire loot, right after changing the need requirements because you determined that we couldn't rely on groups to roll greed. ? confused expression ?
I agree. Half of my friends already started to disappear with the nerf. Some of them don't even care if there's gonna be new content or not. This BoP change will go live. I have no doubts. The decision is already taken.
This solves the last bit of QQ about Ninja Needing.
But, it doesn't help guilds stock the Guild Bank. I would hope we would be able to put all items acquired from Guild-Only content in the Guild Bank instead of having everything be Bind on Pick-Up.
In fact, I'd rather have everything in Gauntlgrym be trade-only than Bind on Pick-Up.
Are we supposed to raise our endgame gearscore via AD?
I agree with what you're saying to a point re: loot table increased. Right now, one has a 20% chance of obtaining an item from a Dungeon given everyone is geared with equivalent sets. That's pretty crappy % to begin with. Now add in each persons actual desired item from that 20% drop and you're looking at a miniscule percentage. Just seems counter productive to me.
Playing any videogame(aside from MMOs), one expects that time and skill put in will ALWAYS result in a reward. Be it accomplishing a mission, defeating the endboss, new gear to become even more badarse etc.. there needs to be SOME reward for everybody who invests. A Title, a respec token, a silly hat, a shiny new dagger, a unique enchant, something aesthetic, whatever.. it does not matter. As long as the reward is equal to the time investment. What i'm saying is, excluding any discussion about Bound equipment, the current reward of a handful of useless drake seals and a tiny % of getting something you actually want/need does not even remotely come close to adequately reward someone for 1-2 hrs of their time (let alone find a group, prepping party etc..).
In addition, even those drake seal items will become bound to character as per the original statement:
There will be no actual reward for high level players to continue playing.
thx
tris
The fact that you can also convert gear into a certain amount of AD (hopefully this isn't rough AD) means that you can still PvE for AD, and most things will go down in price according to the amount of AD being rewarded from the salvaging. This is a good change and has been long needed.
Alternately, if you insist on these changes, then let me "salvage" the item anywhere, so my tiny inventory isn't such an annoyance. Or let me send my Companion away to salvage them for me.
Selling gear is the only way to get some of the lockbox stuff good enchants for "free" (if we consider out time free, hopefully it's not the case). I got my purple mount and some cool store stuff with the ADs i made when i sold some good gear i got from dungeon. I'm sure my ADs made several paying customers happy too.
One advice though, do not make the vendor accepting pvp gear. There are enough bots and AFKs for now. Don't kill pvp, don't make it the way to farm endless rough ADs. Or at least make the vendor accepting at most 1 pvp equipment a day.
And please, fix the dungeon exploits and shortcuts! Make what we get a real achievement by fixing this and making all 3 (or 4 for CN) bosses a mandatory fight to open the final DD chest! Remove campfire races, add invisible walls all around caverns and weird terrain details, and give us hard time fighting tough mobs to get to the boss.
Currently, frozen heart, castle never, karrundax and even pirate with the jumping shortcut are exploited as hell. This is definitely not an "achievement". How could it be? There are so many shortcuts and exploits all around these dungeons...
Edit: and make boss fights really challenging. I don't think a 5 mins zerg on a dragon (and that's just an example among others) is a "achievement". This has been recorded before the patch and you dumbed it down even more...
I was planning on buying Zen this weekend and taking advantage of the various sales in the Zen shop. Once I read about these changes I took that off the table immediately. We'll see where this goes from here.
Yeah the enchant treadmill just got 10 miles longer bud.
In what way? The price of enchants will change with peoples ability to generate AD.
The enchants will be the only thing which holds any real value.. You ever see what happened to the price of gold when the dollar devalued and gold didn't?
Plague and Tenebrous are going to skyrocket, mark my words. The only way to get them is ZEN, it will now be harder for people to convert AD to ZEN, I think you get the picture. Not to even mention Wards.
PWE, this completely unnecessary change to Neverwinter will seriously HURT zen sales. You WILL lose customers as a result of this change.
Please do not implement this.