... your risk turning this game into another Wow / Rift grind fest that will eventually cause loot drama, cause people to rage quit and move on to a different MMO.
pssst ... Wow and Rift are two of the more successful MMO's in the market. WoW has millions of subscribers who PAY to play their game. Not many have rage quit and gone anywhere anytime fast in that game.
That's exactly the point ... it has always been like this.
pssst ... Wow and Rift are two of the more successful MMO's in the market. WoW has millions of subscribers who PAY to play their game. No one has gone anywhere anytime fast in that game.
Worst argument ever lol
Obviously the people here playing THIS game are not THERE paying to play THAT game. Let that sink in for a second.
Obviously the people here playing THIS game are not THERE paying to play THAT game. Let that sink in for a second.
Second worst argument ever lol
Obviously PWE would love to trade the few thousand of players they have playing this game for the few million WoW and Rift players who love this loot mechanic and are playing their game.
I can think of no faster way to get people to quit. If you disagree, ask yourself how many people are quitting now because items are NOT BoP.
there's hundred of players post in the past 3 weeks mostly saying: All BoE gear make the game P2W, make them BoP or i quit, i guess you can't blame them for listening to their player base. Go ahead do some search with "BoP gear" in the search feature in the past 3 weeks to see the exact opposite. You're all a bunch a bandwagon complainers, nothing they will do will ever satisfy you.
Obviously PWE would love to trade the few thousand of players they have playing this game for the few million WoW and Rift players who love this loot mechanic and are playing their game.
Second worst argument ever lol
Obviously that's not going to happen at all, not even close to it, just by switching from BOE to BOP.
You aren't even making arguments now.
0
usarubberMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm sorry, but it's almost like you want to kill the game.
I have to ask have you ever played any other MMO?
For one what you are doing is about to kill the entire market, You're adding an AD generator into the game. Which is funny because, now with AD about to be inflated your zen will have no value. Who would spend real money for zen now? When they can just run a few instances and generate AD.
As far as I know, the only AD generators in the game are Founders Packs, Dailies, Professions.
(correct me if I'm wrong)
But that's the only way (as far as I know) TO generate AD into the game. There are no (as far as I know) Merchants that will sell you anything for AD. This is why GOLD is useless, Every NPC that you can sell to generates Gold into the game. Thus dropping the value with every piece of generated gold. (Which makes me laugh people sell this stuff for such silly prices)
Thing is you have no real AD dumps in the game.
I'd suggest something similar to what Runes of Magic did, and allowed you to build a personalized house. Also guilds were allowed to construct Castles, or guild halls. Some of these halls would give you buffs, and you'd have a reason to visit, and invest into these places.
Doing so would give the game a AD dump. Otherwise your game is just about to generate endless amounts of AD at an alarming rate. Who wants to play a game now that you seek no real reward. The point is to go out and grind with your friends, so you can help gear them up. Or sell stuff on the AH to make money, to buy the gear you really need.
I see no point in this honestly.
What you NEED to do, is not kill your game. And do one of two things.
Go along with this silly idea and add a form of AD dump, or your game is going to be destroyed, (you're turning it into a 100% grindathon with this idea).. Nobody likes to grind, that's why everyone likes this game.
If you're going to do this, add an un-bind item in the zen house. Charge either ONLY real money for it, or a high Zen price. This would allow people to unbind BOP items to give away to friends or sell on AH for crazy amounts.
Or, The rather obviously simple solution would be to make it so any item that is "NEEDED" on, is BOP.
Greed items would be BOI.
I really see this as being a huge HUGE fail on your guys end. I'm honestly surprised, I don't believe in all the MMO's I've ever played I've seen something quite outrageous, and rather funny to be frank.
I'm not sure if I can continue playing this lovely game if it turns into a grind mess, and AH becomes inflated with huge AD prices.
But don't change it just for me. I think the peoples reaction about this rather humorous idea says enough. Little disappointing this staff would even come up with such an idea.
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I was going to buy Zen today, but after reading this. I've changed my mind.
If these changes are made, I can see me taking my money else where...
Likewise. I was going to take advantage of the sale to stock up dyes for T2 sets. Now I've realized I'll probably never complete one I just didn't bother.
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
0
grimaldesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited June 2013
I am certainly no authority on economics. In fact I am a bricklayer which requires me to be just a touch smarter than the brick. So please, correct me if I am in orrect on the following.
This descision makes no sense to me from a business stand point. Your goal is clearly to make money. I have read many people say this is all just a gimmick to increase zen sales but I am not following how? It sems to me this would do precisely the opposite. I can only speak for myself, my guildies and a couple of non guild friends I have made... ALL of us have purchased zen with the sole purpose of converting it to ad on the exchange so we could buy certain or in some cases all our gear. I can only assume this exact type of purchase is one of your foremost reasons for zen purchases if my group of guildies and friends are any indicator. Why remove that. In my eyes the only purpose it will serve is to completely devalue two currencies.
I am not in favor of this choice at all but I WILL continue playing either way. I do hope you can provide a less bull**** answer than trying to claim its for our benefit and we will feel more rewarded this way. Like I said... I am a litle smarter than the brick.
One of the most attracting features in this game is that the gear is BOE, otherwise, your risk turning this game into another Wow / Rift grind fest that will eventually cause loot drama, cause people to rage quit and move on to a different MMO.
Trying to muddy the argument to try and make a credible argument =
I am certainly no authority on economics. In fact I am a bricklayer which requires me to be just a touch smarter than the brick. So please, correct me if I am in orrect on the following.
This descision makes no sense to me from a business stand point. Your goal is clearly to make money. I have read many people say this is all just a gimmick to increase zen sales but I am not following how? It sems to me this would do precisely the opposite. I can only speak for myself, my guildies and a couple of non guild friends I have made... ALL of us have purchased zen with the sole purpose of converting it to ad on the exchange so we could buy certain or in some cases all our gear. I can only assume this exact type of purchase is one of your foremost reasons for zen purchases if my group of guildies and friends are any indicator. Why remove that. In my eyes the only purpose it will serve is to completely devalue two currencies.
I am not in favor of this choice at all but I WILL continue playing either way. I do hope you can provide a less bull**** answer than trying to claim its for our benefit and we will feel more rewarded this way. Like I said... I am a litle smarter than the brick.
Why you all always start your argument by "since PW wants to take advantage of players" while i don't discredit this fact, you can't blame them for listening their community, it's been asked, they done it. Zen price was too high for people, people complained, they reduced it. So since it's PW, it's a trap against the players no matter what they do.
This game will then either be: 1) Pay to win 2) give advantage to people that put effort or 3) a money trap. Why should we care about your feedback, people always complain no matter what they do, unless they all give us free gear without effort and they close the cash shop. It's such spoiled child argument.
I'm not against or for the change, game is fine this way and will remain fine the other way. You all make bad anticipation, you have no clue about the system and only take one change to judge the whole new mechanic they are implementing.
Trying to muddy the argument to try and make a credible argument =
Third worst argument ever lol
I'm well aware what you were replying to. And the point of my reply to you, was that the players CURRENTLY playing this game are different then the players CURRENTLY playing WoW. In fact many of the players in this game CAME from WoW, I wonder if there was a reason for that.
You still aren't making any cognitive argument.
Had to edit in the word *currently since you didn't comprehend.
Why you all always start your argument by "since PW wants to take advantage of players" while i don't discredit this fact, you can't blame them for listening their community, it's been asked, they done it. Zen price was too high for people, people complained, they reduced it. So since it's PW, it's a trap against the players no matter what they do.
This game will then either be: 1) Pay to win 2) give advantage to people that put effort or 3) a money trap. Why should we care about your feedback, people always complain no matter what they do, unless they all give us free gear without effort and they close the cash shop. It's such spoiled child argument.
I'm not against or for the change, game is fine this way and will remain fine the other way. You all make bad anticipation, you have no clue about the system and only take one change to change the whole new mechanic they are implementing.
What you are seeing is what is commonly referred to as a "knee-jerk reaction."
I'm well aware what you were replying to. And the point of my reply to you, was that the players playing this game are different then the players playing WoW. In fact many of the players in this game CAME from WoW, I wonder if there was a reason for that.
You still aren't making any cognitive argument.
um ... ok lol
0
jdurantt0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
I'm telling you right now Cryptic, i know for a fact that me and most of my guildies are quitting this game if this goes through. This will completely RUIN endgame. please please please don't do this i want to see Neverwinter go far and I want to play it but I'm quitting if there is no reward for me doing T2s. PLEASE don't do this..... it's a very bad idea you'll ruin your own game.
0
vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
This BoP change is a knee-jerk reaction and the only thing it will fix is the problem of too many people playing this game.
I'm telling you right now Cryptic, i know for a fact that me and most of my guildies are quitting this game if this goes through. This will completely RUIN endgame. please please please don't do this i want to see Neverwinter go far and I want to play it but I'm quitting if there is no reward for me doing T2s. PLEASE don't do this..... it's a very bad idea you'll ruin your own game.
This is what is known as the "There is strength in numbers" reaction. If I can somehow convince PWI that I speak for the larger whole, my opinion will carry greater impact. In this particular reaction proof that one is actually speaking for a larger whole is not necessary. To claim it without proof is sufficient.
Some will replace this argument with a threat of never spending any additional funds in the game. Both serve to send the same message of "Doom."
This is what is known as the "There is strength in numbers" reaction. If I can somehow convince PWI that I speak for the larger whole, my opinion will carry greater impact. In this particular reaction proof that one is actually speaking for a larger whole is not necessary. To claim it without proof is sufficient.
Some will replace this argument with a threat of spending any additional funds in the game ever. Both serve to send the same message of "Doom."
Common behaviors in MMO forums.
Well I'm pretty sure the numbers of reactions for/against in this very thread and every other one on the subject are speaking for themselves.
Let me give you a hint : Far more people are speaking out against it then for it.
0
vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I've gone through this thread, grindjunkies are clearly in the minority
What you are seeing is what is commonly referred to as a "knee-jerk reaction."
Common behavior in MMO forums.
Thank you for the enlightenment.
We had hundred of worthless complaints like this weeks ago... but it's weird, people had the exact opposite opinion. They thought it was pay to win and only a small minority of players would have access to gear by paying real money.
4 weeks later, people realized they were wrong, it's actually easy to get gear and only a few amount of players are stupid enough to buy overpriced gear with real money, so they all stockpiled **** tons of money (i have several millions AD sitting) for the new gear coming.
Wait! All of sudden game is fine NOW don't change anything it's no longer pay to win it's some for of "you pay for me to win".
... aah the old demean, belittle, and attack when defeated tactic.
Typical.
Ah is that what you're trying to do? Makes sense now.
0
goodbiscuitMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
While I certainly don't regret the money or time I spent on this game thus far (it has been fun, and I enjoy the game), my wallet is on hold while these changes are pending. If most dungeon loot goes to BOP, I'm out. It was nice to be able to run MD a zillion times, not have my helm drop, but sell other items to save AD and buy the helm I wanted. My wife feels the same. We may be only two players, but I wanted our voice to be heard. Please don't make these changes.
0
jdurantt0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
... aah the old demean, belittle, and attack when defeated tactic.
Typical.
And here ladies and gentlemen, is what is commonly referred to as a "forum troll" with the sole purpose of angering the people of the forums who just want to explain to cryptic that they are destroying the game.
0
grimaldesMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Why you all always start your argument by "since PW wants to take advantage of players" while i don't discredit this fact, you can't blame them for listening their community, it's been asked, they done it. Zen price was too high for people, people complained, they reduced it. So since it's PW, it's a trap against the players no matter what they do.
This game will then either be: 1) Pay to win 2) give advantage to people that put effort or 3) a money trap. Why should we care about your feedback, people always complain no matter what they do, unless they all give us free gear without effort and they close the cash shop. It's such spoiled child argument.
I'm not against or for the change, game is fine this way and will remain fine the other way. You all make bad anticipation, you have no clue about the system and only take one change to judge the whole new mechanic they are implementing.
First of all, pump your brakes a little bit. Nowhere do I claim PW is 'trying to take advantage' of players, nor do I attack them in any way. Perhaps take another read of what I said. You've either misunderstood what I typed or I was not concise enough to make my point. Either way, I'll clarify.
I stated 'clearly they want to make money'. Thats the only line I can attribute to your reply. This is indeed true, they want money. So what? They are a business and that is the goal of all business' is it not? Including most non-profit organizations if truth be told. I don't fault them in the slightest. In fact I have stated before that I'm surprised at the quality of what we've been given and if they fixed a bit of **** I'd pay a monthly for it.
My point is that one of, if not THE, primary reason for purchasing zen is to convert to AD so people can buy the gear they want. This has got to be the biggest income this game is currently providing. Again, I am no economic expert but I see no other sources that would provide the capital this is. So what is the reason to remove it? I will be perfectly honest and tell you I fully suspect something else to accompany this. Maybe their is a monthly fee in store who knows. Maybe we'll see a tier 3 appear on the zen market? What I know for a fact is their is more to this than it being in our interest. This is a BUSINESS not a charity. I don't ever believe when a business tells me they are doing something for my benefit. Its all about the bottom dollar, even in an f2p. They have to make money to survive as a company, thats irrefutable and I respect and support that. I've already sunk $400 into this game shamelessly. I enjoy it. Just respect me enough to tell me what its really about, or provide some sound logic as to how this will not collapse the economy of 2 currencies.
As stated, I'll continue to play. I am no stranger to the gear grind, I served my time in the AQ and MC 40 days. The goal of my post was not some empty threat or attack. It is a legitiment "I do not understand"...unless their is something following in which case I fully understand.
And here ladies and gentlemen, is what is commonly referred to as a "forum troll" with the sole purpose of angering the people of the forums who just want to explain to cryptic that they are destroying the game.
Oh wow, look it here ... the old "forum troll" name calling because a poster does not agree with an opposing point of view. This particular reaction is reserved for those who feel victimized and angered by an opposing point of view. Debating for this particular poster is deemed offensive. We must all conform to a specific opinion lest we anger the natives and be thrashed with picks and forks.
0
vaelosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Oh wow, look it here ... the old "forum troll" name calling because a poster does not agree with an opposing point of view. This particular reaction is reserved for those who feel victimized and angered by an opposing point of view. Debating for this particular poster is deemed offensive. We must all conform to a specific opinion lest we anger the natives and be thrashed with picks and forks.
What is your legitimate argument for turning this game into a gear grind?
Because so far the only argument I've seen is "EVERY OTHER MMO". Why are you even here then?
Comments
If these changes are made, I can see me taking my money else where...
When work constitutes nothing but a timesink RNG grind
Has the market of MMOs really whipped people into such a zombie-like state that they actually desire this now?
Worst. Idea. Ever.
I can think of no faster way to get people to quit. If you disagree, ask yourself how many people are quitting now because items are NOT BoP.
That's exactly the point ... it has always been like this.
pssst ... Wow and Rift are two of the more successful MMO's in the market. WoW has millions of subscribers who PAY to play their game. Not many have rage quit and gone anywhere anytime fast in that game.
Worst argument ever lol
Obviously the people here playing THIS game are not THERE paying to play THAT game. Let that sink in for a second.
Second worst argument ever lol
Obviously PWE would love to trade the few thousand of players they have playing this game for the few million WoW and Rift players who love this loot mechanic and are playing their game.
Second worst argument ever lol
there's hundred of players post in the past 3 weeks mostly saying: All BoE gear make the game P2W, make them BoP or i quit, i guess you can't blame them for listening to their player base. Go ahead do some search with "BoP gear" in the search feature in the past 3 weeks to see the exact opposite. You're all a bunch a bandwagon complainers, nothing they will do will ever satisfy you.
Obviously that's not going to happen at all, not even close to it, just by switching from BOE to BOP.
You aren't even making arguments now.
I have to ask have you ever played any other MMO?
For one what you are doing is about to kill the entire market, You're adding an AD generator into the game. Which is funny because, now with AD about to be inflated your zen will have no value. Who would spend real money for zen now? When they can just run a few instances and generate AD.
As far as I know, the only AD generators in the game are Founders Packs, Dailies, Professions.
(correct me if I'm wrong)
But that's the only way (as far as I know) TO generate AD into the game. There are no (as far as I know) Merchants that will sell you anything for AD. This is why GOLD is useless, Every NPC that you can sell to generates Gold into the game. Thus dropping the value with every piece of generated gold. (Which makes me laugh people sell this stuff for such silly prices)
Thing is you have no real AD dumps in the game.
I'd suggest something similar to what Runes of Magic did, and allowed you to build a personalized house. Also guilds were allowed to construct Castles, or guild halls. Some of these halls would give you buffs, and you'd have a reason to visit, and invest into these places.
Doing so would give the game a AD dump. Otherwise your game is just about to generate endless amounts of AD at an alarming rate. Who wants to play a game now that you seek no real reward. The point is to go out and grind with your friends, so you can help gear them up. Or sell stuff on the AH to make money, to buy the gear you really need.
I see no point in this honestly.
What you NEED to do, is not kill your game. And do one of two things.
Go along with this silly idea and add a form of AD dump, or your game is going to be destroyed, (you're turning it into a 100% grindathon with this idea).. Nobody likes to grind, that's why everyone likes this game.
If you're going to do this, add an un-bind item in the zen house. Charge either ONLY real money for it, or a high Zen price. This would allow people to unbind BOP items to give away to friends or sell on AH for crazy amounts.
Or, The rather obviously simple solution would be to make it so any item that is "NEEDED" on, is BOP.
Greed items would be BOI.
I really see this as being a huge HUGE fail on your guys end. I'm honestly surprised, I don't believe in all the MMO's I've ever played I've seen something quite outrageous, and rather funny to be frank.
I'm not sure if I can continue playing this lovely game if it turns into a grind mess, and AH becomes inflated with huge AD prices.
But don't change it just for me. I think the peoples reaction about this rather humorous idea says enough. Little disappointing this staff would even come up with such an idea.
Likewise. I was going to take advantage of the sale to stock up dyes for T2 sets. Now I've realized I'll probably never complete one I just didn't bother.
This descision makes no sense to me from a business stand point. Your goal is clearly to make money. I have read many people say this is all just a gimmick to increase zen sales but I am not following how? It sems to me this would do precisely the opposite. I can only speak for myself, my guildies and a couple of non guild friends I have made... ALL of us have purchased zen with the sole purpose of converting it to ad on the exchange so we could buy certain or in some cases all our gear. I can only assume this exact type of purchase is one of your foremost reasons for zen purchases if my group of guildies and friends are any indicator. Why remove that. In my eyes the only purpose it will serve is to completely devalue two currencies.
I am not in favor of this choice at all but I WILL continue playing either way. I do hope you can provide a less bull**** answer than trying to claim its for our benefit and we will feel more rewarded this way. Like I said... I am a litle smarter than the brick.
My post was specifically addressing this post ...
Trying to muddy the argument to try and make a credible argument =
Third worst argument ever lol
Why you all always start your argument by "since PW wants to take advantage of players" while i don't discredit this fact, you can't blame them for listening their community, it's been asked, they done it. Zen price was too high for people, people complained, they reduced it. So since it's PW, it's a trap against the players no matter what they do.
This game will then either be: 1) Pay to win 2) give advantage to people that put effort or 3) a money trap. Why should we care about your feedback, people always complain no matter what they do, unless they all give us free gear without effort and they close the cash shop. It's such spoiled child argument.
I'm not against or for the change, game is fine this way and will remain fine the other way. You all make bad anticipation, you have no clue about the system and only take one change to judge the whole new mechanic they are implementing.
I'm well aware what you were replying to. And the point of my reply to you, was that the players CURRENTLY playing this game are different then the players CURRENTLY playing WoW. In fact many of the players in this game CAME from WoW, I wonder if there was a reason for that.
You still aren't making any cognitive argument.
Had to edit in the word *currently since you didn't comprehend.
What you are seeing is what is commonly referred to as a "knee-jerk reaction."
Common behavior in MMO forums.
um ... ok lol
I edited it so your limited comprehension could make sense of what I meant.
This is what is known as the "There is strength in numbers" reaction. If I can somehow convince PWI that I speak for the larger whole, my opinion will carry greater impact. In this particular reaction proof that one is actually speaking for a larger whole is not necessary. To claim it without proof is sufficient.
Some will replace this argument with a threat of never spending any additional funds in the game. Both serve to send the same message of "Doom."
Common behaviors in MMO forums.
Well I'm pretty sure the numbers of reactions for/against in this very thread and every other one on the subject are speaking for themselves.
Let me give you a hint : Far more people are speaking out against it then for it.
Thank you for the enlightenment.
We had hundred of worthless complaints like this weeks ago... but it's weird, people had the exact opposite opinion. They thought it was pay to win and only a small minority of players would have access to gear by paying real money.
4 weeks later, people realized they were wrong, it's actually easy to get gear and only a few amount of players are stupid enough to buy overpriced gear with real money, so they all stockpiled **** tons of money (i have several millions AD sitting) for the new gear coming.
Wait! All of sudden game is fine NOW don't change anything it's no longer pay to win it's some for of "you pay for me to win".
... aah the old demean, belittle, and attack when defeated tactic.
Typical.
Ah is that what you're trying to do? Makes sense now.
And here ladies and gentlemen, is what is commonly referred to as a "forum troll" with the sole purpose of angering the people of the forums who just want to explain to cryptic that they are destroying the game.
First of all, pump your brakes a little bit. Nowhere do I claim PW is 'trying to take advantage' of players, nor do I attack them in any way. Perhaps take another read of what I said. You've either misunderstood what I typed or I was not concise enough to make my point. Either way, I'll clarify.
I stated 'clearly they want to make money'. Thats the only line I can attribute to your reply. This is indeed true, they want money. So what? They are a business and that is the goal of all business' is it not? Including most non-profit organizations if truth be told. I don't fault them in the slightest. In fact I have stated before that I'm surprised at the quality of what we've been given and if they fixed a bit of **** I'd pay a monthly for it.
My point is that one of, if not THE, primary reason for purchasing zen is to convert to AD so people can buy the gear they want. This has got to be the biggest income this game is currently providing. Again, I am no economic expert but I see no other sources that would provide the capital this is. So what is the reason to remove it? I will be perfectly honest and tell you I fully suspect something else to accompany this. Maybe their is a monthly fee in store who knows. Maybe we'll see a tier 3 appear on the zen market? What I know for a fact is their is more to this than it being in our interest. This is a BUSINESS not a charity. I don't ever believe when a business tells me they are doing something for my benefit. Its all about the bottom dollar, even in an f2p. They have to make money to survive as a company, thats irrefutable and I respect and support that. I've already sunk $400 into this game shamelessly. I enjoy it. Just respect me enough to tell me what its really about, or provide some sound logic as to how this will not collapse the economy of 2 currencies.
As stated, I'll continue to play. I am no stranger to the gear grind, I served my time in the AQ and MC 40 days. The goal of my post was not some empty threat or attack. It is a legitiment "I do not understand"...unless their is something following in which case I fully understand.
Oh wow, look it here ... the old "forum troll" name calling because a poster does not agree with an opposing point of view. This particular reaction is reserved for those who feel victimized and angered by an opposing point of view. Debating for this particular poster is deemed offensive. We must all conform to a specific opinion lest we anger the natives and be thrashed with picks and forks.
What is your legitimate argument for turning this game into a gear grind?
Because so far the only argument I've seen is "EVERY OTHER MMO". Why are you even here then?
Have you cleared Castle Never?