My personal reaction: I don't hate the concept of the idea. What they're trying to accomplish is a good thing. Keeping current content...current can only lead to a longer-living game, so long as that content is still achievable. That said, this change is too big a leap. If the game were designed this way from the get-go, then that would be that - but it was not. As many before me have mentioned, as this game is this very second, it is VERY alt and casual friendly. I like the idea of being able to do the content I want (that coincidentally makes me AD/Gold) and buying the gear, thus earning the gear that way.
But that leaves us with a problem. The game, in its current state, is VERY MUCH Pay-For-Convenience. Pay money, save time. It is this way TO THE EXTENT of it being Pay-To-Win. If you throw enough money at it, you can get enough of the BiS gear w/ BiS enchants and make it so no one can possibly stand up to you...in under an hour. This change would, to an extent, hinder that.
Here's what I recommend:
Have only the highest tier from drops/vendor purchases be BoP. Currently, that means T2. You should NEVER be able to buy the BiS gear of the time.
Go through with the "gear upgrade from professions" change. Have them be BoP. It will give more of a reason to level those professions other than shirts and pants.
Have only the Gauntylgrym PvP gear set (that I assume is coming) be BoP. Leave the glory gear, which is not and still will not be the best gear for PvP (not even in set bonus, anymore, I'd imagine), BoE.
Leave everything else that is already BoE and was unmentioned BoE.
In addition to these changes, I'd also recommend that all items that are NEEDED on IMMEDIATELY become BoP. This would help solve the loot thefts in whatever gear/items remain BoE after the changes.
I think this would be a fair compromise. It would require that the best-of-the-best gear be worked for and NOT bought (thus making the game far less P2W - buying super-enchants is bonus enough), increase the usefulness and appeal of four of the current professions, manage to keep the game alt and casual friendly for both PvE and PvP, and fix the current issue with loot theft. All without pissing off a majority of the playerbase.
In addition to these changes, I'd also recommend that all items that are NEEDED on IMMEDIATELY become BoP. This would help solve the loot thefts in whatever gear/items remain BoE after the changes.
This is a good idea instead of everything being BoP... Need = BoP, Greed = BoE
If this BoE -> BoP change is coming, I can see people either vendoring loads of purple gear or passing on the rolls as the gold is quite worthless at this moment too.
Now, give us a exchange of gold <-> AD and then we are talking about something worthwhile.
What is your legitimate argument for turning this game into a gear grind?
Because so far the only argument I've seen is "EVERY OTHER MMO". Why are you even here then?
Have you cleared Castle Never?
I made my point. Please scroll back several post if you have not read it yet. Again, I have no dog in this fight. I am easy. I will go with the flow regardless. Tbh, in my opinion what is at play here is a heated debate evolving between players wanting an MMO that provides lasting meaningful challenges and content and players who want a more casual MMO that rewards them with immediate gratification. Nothing wrong with either, of course. They are just competing philosophies in game play. I have no problem with it and I am perfectly comfortable debating competing points. IMHO, it's a perfectly healthy debate. Obviously, not everyone feels the same. To some, it is "my way or the highway" and you are my enemy if you don't agree. It's unfortunate it has to be this way. But it is what it is ... I guess.
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dukegoddardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
My personal reaction: I don't hate the concept of the idea. What they're trying to accomplish is a good thing. Keeping current content...current can only lead to a longer-living game, so long as that content is still achievable. That said, this change is too big a leap. If the game were designed this way from the get-go, then that would be that - but it was not. As many before me have mentioned, as this game is this very second, it is VERY alt and casual friendly. I like the idea of being able to do the content I want (that coincidentally makes me AD/Gold) and buying the gear, thus earning the gear that way.
But that leaves us with a problem. The game, in its current state, is VERY MUCH Pay-For-Convenience. Pay money, save time. It is this way TO THE EXTENT of it being Pay-To-Win. If you throw enough money at it, you can get enough of the BiS gear w/ BiS enchants and make it so no one can possibly stand up to you...in under an hour. This change would, to an extent, hinder that.
Here's what I recommend:
Have only the highest tier from drops/vendor purchases be BoP. Currently, that means T2. You should NEVER be able to buy the BiS gear of the time.
Go through with the "gear upgrade from professions" change. Have them be BoP. It will give more of a reason to level those professions other than shirts and pants.
Have only the Gauntylgrym PvP gear set (that I assume is coming) be BoP. Leave the glory gear, which is not and still will not be the best gear for PvP (not even in set bonus, anymore, I'd imagine), BoE.
Leave everything else that is already BoE and was unmentioned BoE.
In addition to these changes, I'd also recommend that all items that are NEEDED on IMMEDIATELY become BoP. This would help solve the loot thefts in whatever gear/items remain BoE after the changes.
I think this would be a fair compromise. It would require that the best-of-the-best gear be worked for and NOT bought (thus making the game far less P2W - buying super-enchants is bonus enough), increase the usefulness and appeal of four of the current professions, manage to keep the game alt and casual friendly for both PvE and PvP, and fix the current issue with loot theft. All without pissing off a majority of the playerbase.
If this change goes through, what this lovely person suggested would be bearable.
I want to express my greatest thanks for the recent addition of BOP. The reason I am thanking you for this is because of the following; Sometimes I go out on a whim and drop a couple hundred dollars on a hobby. I also have a rather bad addiction. It is called Altaholic. I run dungeons and sometimes I gaze over at another class and go ...WOW!!! that looks AWESOME! I gotta get me one of THOSE!!!!
Your game gives me the luxury to get it to cap at a decent pace. You also gave me the tools to feed my altaholic addictive behavior. I could drop some cash and BUY the gear needed to pick up where I left off. The OUTRAGE! Now that you have fixed that exploit I feel like a better player and a wiser person for not spending any money for zen. I thank you, my wallet thanks you, my beer fund thanks you!
This is a terrible idea!! We have a guild of 68 players that will most likely stop playing the game due to these changes. We run the dungeons with the purpose of helping out the guild, and trading off gear between players that it will it will benefit the most and / or sell the gear to get what we want. So, this change doesn't make sense and ruins the uniqueness of the game. One of the most attracting features in this game is that the gear is BOE, otherwise, your risk turning this game into another Wow / Rift grind fest that will eventually cause loot drama, cause people to rage quit and move on to a different MMO. This is a FTP game and with that being said, it is hard enough to keep peoples attentions as it is, adding these changes would be an Atom bomb!!
YOU MUST RECONSIDER THIS IDEA!!!
Couldn't agree more with this idea. I'll deal with a need roll on an item being BoP but not a greed roll. You roll greed if it's something you want to sell or something, and need it you want to actually equip it.
I honestly don't even like BoE but I can live with that. The sheer fact that I could sell gear I didn't need and not have to grind every piece is why this game is so much fun currently. Now you want to change this and make it boring grind fest???
This is a really bad idea, before you even consider the existing player base and how much it will annoy them, what about people who have yet to come to the game? How do you think they are going to react when they find out thousands of people have their end game gear but for them it is going to take months because they can't buy theirs?
Then add to this the events next week - terribly exciting to have events with enchants and companions that will not be dropping in game after the event - yup great - erm hang on, what about the players that have yet to join the game - they get into PVP and a bunch of veterans are in double stat enchanted t2 gear (which these new players can't get because the enchants don't drop anymore and the T2 gear isn't buyable) oh and lets not forget those people who have Perfect/Brilliant enchantments in their armor and weapons (you know the people who exploited the Fusing bug and not only got the best enchants in game for themselves but got rich in the process).
And lets not forget PVP is not just Arena anymore, it is Gauntylgrym or however you spell it - so end game is going to be completely unbalanced because Cryptic allowed those who exploited to get away with it (look how many stacks of 99 rank 5 and 6 enchants are currently in the AH).
So basically the game balance is completely screwed (new and yet to arrive players have absolutely no chance whatsoever), the economy is completely screwed and end game is completely screwed...
I will leave you to reach your own conclusions on where this game is going now...
It's very simple. The outrage i feel, i can see in many of you. The few that ARE HAPPY with this change....I won't abuse you, you are entitled to your opinion.
For the guys that realise how spastic this new change will be....i suggest the following...Gauntyl is open pvp right? Get together. Get like geared ppl togetehr, and simpl just raype all these "new" players that are supposedly coming in. VERY SIMPLE.....their free teir 1 pvp glory set can stand up to my ancients and full teir 2 with tenebrous,soulforged and plague? LOL maybe in their dreams.
Simple. Devs wanna be unreasonable...we can be unreasonable too. KILL them all in pvp, gauntyl, refuse entry to them in normal dungeouns, trash talk them, say sheet like "Whatcha goona do???? we had the option to gear up! YOU DON"T!" WATCHA GONNA DO??? then kill them, all their friends, over and over.
When new ppl start complaining on forums, quitting, etc etc, then perhaps the guy that thought this change up might throw himself off a building...and things will be reverted back?
Well, think about it. All i can say is...from a bored fully geared player like myself who has nothing more to do since this change....i'm gonna amuse myself by murdering....and i guarantee you...i'm not alone.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
First of all, pump your brakes a little bit. Nowhere do I claim PW is 'trying to take advantage' of players, nor do I attack them in any way. Perhaps take another read of what I said. You've either misunderstood what I typed or I was not concise enough to make my point. Either way, I'll clarify.
I stated 'clearly they want to make money'. Thats the only line I can attribute to your reply. This is indeed true, they want money. So what? They are a business and that is the goal of all business' is it not? Including most non-profit organizations if truth be told. I don't fault them in the slightest. In fact I have stated before that I'm surprised at the quality of what we've been given and if they fixed a bit of **** I'd pay a monthly for it.
My point is that one of, if not THE, primary reason for purchasing zen is to convert to AD so people can buy the gear they want. This has got to be the biggest income this game is currently providing. Again, I am no economic expert but I see no other sources that would provide the capital this is. So what is the reason to remove it? I will be perfectly honest and tell you I fully suspect something else to accompany this. Maybe their is a monthly fee in store who knows. Maybe we'll see a tier 3 appear on the zen market? What I know for a fact is their is more to this than it being in our interest. This is a BUSINESS not a charity. I don't ever believe when a business tells me they are doing something for my benefit. Its all about the bottom dollar, even in an f2p. They have to make money to survive as a company, thats irrefutable and I respect and support that. I've already sunk $400 into this game shamelessly. I enjoy it. Just respect me enough to tell me what its really about, or provide some sound logic as to how this will not collapse the economy of 2 currencies.
As stated, I'll continue to play. I am no stranger to the gear grind, I served my time in the AQ and MC 40 days. The goal of my post was not some empty threat or attack. It is a legitiment "I do not understand"...unless their is something following in which case I fully understand.
Well it wasn't target directly at your post. If i can answer frankly to your post, i think there's AD sinks maybe not enough for a change like this. There's the cat companion, scrolls, respec, rushing companion training, profession, mount, training book for mount and soon companion... + the fact everything in the cash shop can be buy with AD once it's transferred in Zen (fashion items, dye, mounts, bags, respec token, character slot...)
Making BoE item BoP only without anything else, it's bad. I just tried to explain that people comment 1 element out of a complex mechanic change including several new changes.
1) they said there will be special unique item BoE in the dungeons.
2) new seals given will be used to buy set of gear and even new t2 set.
3) a Npc will salvage your BoP gear for AD.
4) dungeons will be more rewarding, an getting gear will feel more like an accomplishment rather than be something common and easily obtainable without doing dungeons. For the people who does dungeons to actually feel they earned something rather than having wasted their time on something everyone can buy.
I don't defend PW, in fact i didn't feel the current loot system was bad. But i think this change could improve the interest in dungeons, people don't try T2, they leave after the first wipe or only queue for the T2 you can exploit, and complain everywhere it's hard, and not for the casual people, but they run everywhere in their T2 gears with 12k+ GS. But because of that they can't lower the difficulty, because then not only a few % of people would sell gear, everyone would and everyone would get it easily, making the item worth nothing. If difficulty is raised, Unique item sold would be control by a tiny % of people and would make the gear inaccessible for the mass.
At least distribution of quality of gear won't be distributed unfairly, unless you really push the argument of only the more elitist and skilled player will get it. But how can you keep a player base without making them proud of an accomplishment they worked hard for it. So as long gear is not only dropped from instance but can be acquired, and people get something in the instance when they haven't been lucky to get their piece of gear (like an option to buy good items from seal vendors) and the quality of gear doesn't make the harder gear to obtain vastly better compared to the easily obtainable ones, i support this change. It was needed and requested.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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dukegoddardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's very simple. The outrage i feel, i can see in many of you. The few that ARE HAPPY with this change....I won't abuse you, you are entitled to your opinion.
For the guys that realise how spastic this new change will be....i suggest the following...Gauntyl is open pvp right? Get together. Get like geared ppl togetehr, and simpl just raype all these "new" players that are supposedly coming in. VERY SIMPLE.....their free teir 1 pvp glory set can stand up to my ancients and full teir 2 with tenebrous,soulforged and plague? LOL maybe in their dreams.
Simple. Devs wanna be unreasonable...we can be unreasonable too. KILL them all in pvp, gauntyl, refuse entry to them in normal dungeouns, trash talk them, say sheet like "Whatcha goona do???? we had the option to gear up! YOU DON"T!" WATCHA GONNA DO??? then kill them, all their friends, over and over.
When new ppl start complaining on forums, quitting, etc etc, then perhaps the guy that thought this change up might throw himself off a building...and things will be reverted back?
Well, think about it. All i can say is...from a bored fully geared player like myself who has nothing more to do since this change....i'm gonna amuse myself by murdering....and i guarantee you...i'm not alone.
You have my Ancient castle never CW set, and my Greater Plaguefire enchantment, and my Shadow Weaver's and my Magelord. Shall the Gauntlgrym be known as the graveyard of poor souls who Cryptic doomed from the start.
It's very simple. The outrage i feel, i can see in many of you. The few that ARE HAPPY with this change....I won't abuse you, you are entitled to your opinion.
For the guys that realise how spastic this new change will be....i suggest the following...Gauntyl is open pvp right? Get together. Get like geared ppl togetehr, and simpl just raype all these "new" players that are supposedly coming in. VERY SIMPLE.....their free teir 1 pvp glory set can stand up to my ancients and full teir 2 with tenebrous,soulforged and plague? LOL maybe in their dreams.
Simple. Devs wanna be unreasonable...we can be unreasonable too. KILL them all in pvp, gauntyl, refuse entry to them in normal dungeouns, trash talk them, say sheet like "Whatcha goona do???? we had the option to gear up! YOU DON"T!" WATCHA GONNA DO??? then kill them, all their friends, over and over.
All those comment make me feel how you actually are all spoiled kids and the change was made to stop this attitude in the game.
When new ppl start complaining on forums, quitting, etc etc, then perhaps the guy that thought this change up might throw himself off a building...and things will be reverted back?
Well, think about it. All i can say is...from a bored fully geared player like myself who has nothing more to do since this change....i'm gonna amuse myself by murdering....and i guarantee you...i'm not alone.
talk about being immature, this will last for few weeks and then... you will only make the game miserable for people who didn't asked for this. Is this supposed to attract PW sympathy for the poor new players? Maybe actually it will convince people how the previous system was bad, and how a HAMSTER player got abusively geared. So is this really what you want for the game, show people how you can spend millions of AD to be good at the game?
New Player - "Where did you get those double stat enchantments?"
Me - "Oh I got them during open beta, just before the game officially launched, you can't get them anymore." ...[Q,E,R,1]
New Player - "Help!"
talk about being immature, this will last for few weeks and then... you will only make the game miserable for people who didn't asked for this. Is this supposed to attract PW sympathy for the poor new players? Maybe actually it will convince people how the previous system was bad, and how a HAMSTER player got abusively geared. So is this really what you want for the game, show people how you can spend millions of AD to be good at the game?
If you think this is not ALREADY going to happen if this change takes place....then you are dreaming my friend.
I mean what you think is gonna happen brah? The new wide eyed player is gonna step into a field where he does NOT have the same options that WE HAVE.
What you think is gonna happen eh mother theresa? I'm gonna inspect the guy in pvp, then make a concious effort not to hit him?
Sorry i'm so IMMATURE bro, see you back in this VIDEO GAME that we're both playing k?^^
Oh and you're right...THEY didn't ask for this....but SOMEBODY did.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
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rohk007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
How about you only make the loot BOP if you role NEED on it?????
New Player - "Where did you get those double stat enchantments?"
Me - "Oh I got them during open beta, just before the game officially launched, you can't get them anymore." ...[Q,E,R,1]
New Player - "Help!"
"ALL Mighty, I know I have sinned and I have benefited as a result."
"That is fine, my child. I will refrain from punishing you or correcting that which allowed you to sin, and in so doing allow others to also sin thereby benefiting as you have."
"Thank you, My Lord."
"No problem, my child. It's only fair. Now go, go go and continue sinning. I am proud of you, my sinning child."
If you think this is not ALREADY going to happen if this change takes place....then you are dreaming my friend.
I mean what you think is gonna happen brah? The new wide eyed player is gonna step into a field where he does NOT have the same options that WE HAVE.
What you think is gonna happen eh mother theresa? I'm gonna inspect the guy in pvp, then make a concious effort not to hit him?
Sorry i'm so IMMATURE bro, see you back in this VIDEO GAME that we're both playing k?^^
Oh and you're right...THEY didn't ask for this....but SOMEBODY did.
Alright yes, your advantage in the game will last even after the change for decades, it's dumb to change this, you got me there. Really ? Then why you are still there complaining about the changes if it doesn't affect you? Giving feedback ? You're not.
You know your advantage won't last far after the change, you are scared you won't be able to be good at the game without being able to buy your gear and/or exploiting people by selling overpriced stuff on the AH. Why would you care if not.
Alright yes, your advantage in the game will last even after the change for decades, it's dumb to change this, you got me there. Really ? Then why you are still there complaining about the changes if it doesn't affect you? Giving feedback ? You're not.
You know your advantage won't last far after the change, you are scared you won't be able to be good at the game without being able to buy your gear and/or exploiting people by selling overpriced stuff on the AH. Why would you care if not.
GOOD question!
NOW we are getting somewhere.
Ok, let me explain. Simple. Perhaps YOU have alot of time to sit at your computer for 72 hrs straight or something...and do nothing but farm gear.
ME? Sorry, i WORK. I do however have a (obssesive maybe?) addiction to computer games. Fine by me. I pay the bills, i bring home the bacon, i earn enough to spend on my hobby. Am i WRONG? and WHO ARE YOU to tell me i'm wrong son?
So like i said before. YOU who are happy with the changes...fine and good you are entitled to your own opinion AND playstyle.
I "CARE" simply because MY PLAYSTYLE is affected. While your "sense of accomplishment" is wasting your life away infront of the computer...MY sense of accomplishment is to be in a position where i am now, that i can BUY something should i choose to.
SO? u get the picture?
Also as for your comment on scared that ppl will catch up...LOL if a new player can stand having his butt handed to him for 6 months give or take a month...the required time to FARM and get lucky enough with drops to be ON PAR with current ppl's sets. Then I sincerely say...THAT player deserves the bragging right....How many u think going to tolerate it bro?^^
Lets see.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
How about you only make the loot BOP if you role NEED on it?????
It would help people to get geared, but wouldn't actually give a proper change to make the gear obtained more rewarding. You would put the effort to get that piece of gear to realize everyone has it because you can buy it in the AH.
This change is to give something more to people that actually succeed challenge and reduce the rewards to simply pay with real money your gear.
I mean whats the point to even try to do dungeons if you can have everything out of it without stepping in. It's an incentive for people to do the contents and thus making them more dependant of the game by giving them a little extra to do it vs buy it.
Because at some points, you'll buy everything you need quickly, queue in pvp, destroy everyone for a week or two and then say: "this game is boring there is nothing to do." While some people will ask or try to join queue for dungeons, but no one will except the one that speed clear them / using exploit to make money, people will say: "sorry you are not geared enough for the content." but the requirment is 8600 GS and i have 10000 GS, they will say : "buy all your best in slot in the AH for few bucks and then queue with us to farm the instance and sell gear with us"... Is this already happening? i feel i've seen this already.. oh well.
So now new players will have to run the dungeons 700 times per rank 10 enchantment just to get enough salvage AD to buy one.... (no I didn't actually figure it out I just threw a wild *** big number out there).
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chriscc94Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Maybe an idiot idea, but make BOP only items that you won by pressing NEED. This will take care of class-loot ninjas, and you can still sell DD items.
Btw, maybe the problem is with me, but I can not understand some ppl. This game, and these types of games are all about getting new stuff and earn new gear. If you buy all the gear, stones, enchants, then what else to do? Basically, you start to do every foundry, or do the totally useless (unless you enjoy it ) PVP? I couldn't understand nearly the same problem in other games: When you skip the "content", what else to do? Like on WoW fun servers.
I don't wanna be rude or arrogant (but I am ), I just wanna get answers.
I can just lol at the people defending this change with stuff like : Now you have to "work" for your gear,or be skilled to clear stuff to get it etc etc..
You all do realize that,there is a chance that you NEVER EVER get your set complete? Or never ever get that t2 Weapon you so badly want even if your group clears t2 content while the cleric is making love with the gwf,the cw is afk on the phone and your tr is sleeping on the keyboard... While your Friend that is in another premade group,gets the same piece you so desperately want,every run,and all he can do with it is salvage it for a few unrefined AD..
Sorry,but there is nothing good or fun in a change that means i have to get lucky to get the gear i want. And nothing else it is,luck,not skill.. Im all for good play beeing rewarded,but not with a rng factor added on top of it ^^
Thats obvious timesink,and moneygrabbing... Next we sell "unbind" scrolls in the ZEN store and there we go.. wouldnt be the first time,although thats just me seeing things a bit darker then they are currently so nvm that one...
Again,defending the change with saying now having gear means having skill or feels like an achievement is BS.. All it means is you were lucky that the things you needed dropped eventually.
This will be inscribed on the tombstone of this game, I am sorry to say.
Aside from that, this is why I feel this way;
1. I came from WoW and though I consider myself a skilled player, I found that my 'RNG' was made of nightmares. I went months without winning rolls. I went weeks, months, forever without seeing an item that I needed drop. It was the coffin in the nail of a game that I played and loved since 2005. I don't mean casual play, either. I played daily, several hours a day and sometimes sessions that would make a junkie blush.
I don't want to return to an unrewarding system which could be offset by;
2. Dailies. If this game centers around dailies, then there is another reason not to play it. I might as well go back to the game that I have an established history in and cannot get gear in. At least there, I can fly. Dailies are the lowest form of game play. It's like washing the dishes day in and out. It's boring, unfun, and turns the mind elsewhere, which is why we play games to begin with, to take our mind off of mundane lives, or worries.
3. Salvage sounds petty and like artificial extension. If I cannot get the item I want and need over and over and over and thus that chance seems next to nothing, why should I be happy with 'salvage' when it's just another chance that appears on paper, to be next to nothing.
Need/Greed and need rolls binding gear is ACCEPTABLE. I have championed that and wanted people to get their items fairly, and without worry of a TR 'roleplaying' 'ninja' and taking their cleric boots to the AH. Taking BoP beyond that is digging a grave. A great deal of the success of your game will depend on accessibility. Lower it? Reduce your player base. Reductions in player base result reductions of accessibility to others and you will end up with trash kings on top of worthless piles of nothing.
4. I enjoy strong currency and trading for items, working the AH. If I cannot do that, I see this as having nothing to do. Being unable to run dungeons and sell my personal drops for AD to fund cosmetic mounts and costumes makes this game worthless to me. Your boss mechanics are not fun at all and do not warrant my continued interest beyond profit.
Example; "Boss" appears, thus begins the cycle of ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS...
5. You just finished milking a ton of AD out of people with the sale, which was needed, but now seems insincere with this announcement of BOP loot.
6. You will force players to buy zen to afford enchants, mounts, dyes, etc. An obvious intent, if they stick around or...
7. You will encourage players to participate in RMT...a thorn in every games market, but this is why it exists. No one likes to be in the have-nots. No one.
8. Whether or not you will admit it. A great deal of exploitation continues, and a great deal of exploited resources still exist. Diamonds, Zen, Items, and Enchants. All of these are stored away, awaiting a rainy day. Now, they will be doled out to the 'scrub' classes, milking every bit of profit that can be had and ensuring that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.
This game is less like a game then, and more like an experiment in sociology. A cruel engineers way of finding out how much bull**** people are willing to take in game, and if you can get them to run the same maze and accept the same disappointment in artificial reality as they will in actual reality.. all the while paying for it.
9. As it is, we cannot even make the best gear in this game through our professions and without spending zen, or astral diamonds, will NEVER be able to make the current tier. You screwed people with that by ensuring that you needed 4 epic tools (about 1m AD each currently) to even have a percentage of a chance to make t3. I am sure this will continue for this other profession upgrade thing, which will also require more tools, more grind, as now professions will have to be leveled on every character, instead of just one.
Seemingly, dragon eggs are only coming from real money trades as well. Nightmare boxes, and profession resource asset packs.
Sister Vanity knows if you've been naughty or nice...and heals accordingly.
Ok, let me explain. Simple. Perhaps YOU have alot of time to sit at your computer for 72 hrs straight or something...and do nothing but farm gear.
ME? Sorry, i WORK. I do however have a (obssesive maybe?) addiction to computer games. Fine by me. I pay the bills, i bring home the bacon, i earn enough to spend on my hobby. Am i WRONG? and WHO ARE YOU to tell me i'm wrong son?
So like i said before. YOU who are happy with the changes...fine and good you are entitled to your own opinion AND playstyle.
I "CARE" simply because MY PLAYSTYLE is affected. While your "sense of accomplishment" is wasting your life away infront of the computer...MY sense of accomplishment is to be in a position where i am now, that i can BUY something should i choose to.
SO? u get the picture?
Also as for your comment on scared that ppl will catch up...LOL if a new player can stand having his butt handed to him for 6 months give or take a month...the required time to FARM and get lucky enough with drops to be ON PAR with current ppl's sets. Then I sincerely say...THAT player deserves the bragging right....How many u think going to tolerate it bro?^^
Lets see.
I have a job too, actually i play less than 2-3 hours per day, i'm very busy at the moment. I have bills to pay too.
It's not my sense of accomplishment i care about, it's the fact that the game is a grind fest, it's more efficient to buy everything, do everything after while there is no challenge to then make profit to cover your expense... that's not the game i want.
To be honest i bought some of my gear too, i have no shame to say it, it's actually the norm, since it helps you to get your investment back quickly, i just find bad some people are excluding classes or less geared people that don't buy their stuff so they won't slow down their profit. It's ridiculous, we are able to get all best in slot enchant/gear in a week. The game is already corrupted and he's dying of it, i enjoy this game and i don't want this to happen. No ones does nothing except PvP or farming gear, i would really like to know how many of the 60 that have CN gear, how many of them actually entered in the instance ?
I think it more desirable to make people playing the game instead of this. If it takes months to get geared and the amount of effort/pleasure needed to do is bad, i will complain, but so far we don't have this information. But we have the information the way the game is right now is just plain bad, and i would welcome a change in that direction. They have the potential to make unique items BoP
in dungeons, while rewarding the less lucky and the more casual people, without making a pointless game where the content is secondary.
Maybe an idiot idea, but make BOP only items that you won by pressing NEED. This will take care of class-loot ninjas, and you can still sell DD items.
Btw, maybe the problem is with me, but I can not understand some ppl. This game, and these types of games are all about getting new stuff and earn new gear. If you buy all the gear, stones, enchants, then what else to do? Basically, you start to do every foundry, or do the totally useless (unless you enjoy it ) PVP? I couldn't understand nearly the same problem in other games: When you skip the "content", what else to do? Like on WoW fun servers.
I don't wanna be rude or arrogant (but I am ), I just wanna get answers.
Good question.
I don't claim to have the answer but I think their intent is to level every single class, and then some, to max level and have them fully geared with epic loots in 3 days ... give or take a day ...
... and then on the fourth or fifth day (whichever one comes first) come to the forums and create dozens of threads complaining that there is nothing to do at end game.
This is a very, very bad idea. Trading of gear has always been a huge part of gaming. Please retract it if you don't wanna lose players. It's a good game, don't destroy it.
This change will loose them money.
Now people spend ad on gear.
You remove the ad sinks then everyone saves it and doesnt use real money anymore.
They are already AD sinks, and it's not mandatory it come from buying item... actually buying item is not a sink, the Ad still exists, hence why it's not working and economy is being ravaged... wait until the new items come out, many many players has at least several if not many millions of AD they earned legit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
milyaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
So, it sounds like PWE and Cryptic got tired of the gold farms getting all the money from thier player base like any other MMO and no one BUYING ZEN from PWE.
Just FYI, the Salvage thing is totaly BS... a top Tier two only goes for 8-10k AD to salvage.
But if they do this the only way to make people stay is to have all BOSSES drop a piece of gear for each player aka... players have thier own loot.
Comments
But that leaves us with a problem. The game, in its current state, is VERY MUCH Pay-For-Convenience. Pay money, save time. It is this way TO THE EXTENT of it being Pay-To-Win. If you throw enough money at it, you can get enough of the BiS gear w/ BiS enchants and make it so no one can possibly stand up to you...in under an hour. This change would, to an extent, hinder that.
Here's what I recommend:
In addition to these changes, I'd also recommend that all items that are NEEDED on IMMEDIATELY become BoP. This would help solve the loot thefts in whatever gear/items remain BoE after the changes.
I think this would be a fair compromise. It would require that the best-of-the-best gear be worked for and NOT bought (thus making the game far less P2W - buying super-enchants is bonus enough), increase the usefulness and appeal of four of the current professions, manage to keep the game alt and casual friendly for both PvE and PvP, and fix the current issue with loot theft. All without pissing off a majority of the playerbase.
This is a good idea instead of everything being BoP... Need = BoP, Greed = BoE
If this BoE -> BoP change is coming, I can see people either vendoring loads of purple gear or passing on the rolls as the gold is quite worthless at this moment too.
Now, give us a exchange of gold <-> AD and then we are talking about something worthwhile.
I made my point. Please scroll back several post if you have not read it yet. Again, I have no dog in this fight. I am easy. I will go with the flow regardless. Tbh, in my opinion what is at play here is a heated debate evolving between players wanting an MMO that provides lasting meaningful challenges and content and players who want a more casual MMO that rewards them with immediate gratification. Nothing wrong with either, of course. They are just competing philosophies in game play. I have no problem with it and I am perfectly comfortable debating competing points. IMHO, it's a perfectly healthy debate. Obviously, not everyone feels the same. To some, it is "my way or the highway" and you are my enemy if you don't agree. It's unfortunate it has to be this way. But it is what it is ... I guess.
If this change goes through, what this lovely person suggested would be bearable.
I want to express my greatest thanks for the recent addition of BOP. The reason I am thanking you for this is because of the following; Sometimes I go out on a whim and drop a couple hundred dollars on a hobby. I also have a rather bad addiction. It is called Altaholic. I run dungeons and sometimes I gaze over at another class and go ...WOW!!! that looks AWESOME! I gotta get me one of THOSE!!!!
Your game gives me the luxury to get it to cap at a decent pace. You also gave me the tools to feed my altaholic addictive behavior. I could drop some cash and BUY the gear needed to pick up where I left off. The OUTRAGE! Now that you have fixed that exploit I feel like a better player and a wiser person for not spending any money for zen. I thank you, my wallet thanks you, my beer fund thanks you!
Couldn't agree more with this idea. I'll deal with a need roll on an item being BoP but not a greed roll. You roll greed if it's something you want to sell or something, and need it you want to actually equip it.
I honestly don't even like BoE but I can live with that. The sheer fact that I could sell gear I didn't need and not have to grind every piece is why this game is so much fun currently. Now you want to change this and make it boring grind fest???
Then add to this the events next week - terribly exciting to have events with enchants and companions that will not be dropping in game after the event - yup great - erm hang on, what about the players that have yet to join the game - they get into PVP and a bunch of veterans are in double stat enchanted t2 gear (which these new players can't get because the enchants don't drop anymore and the T2 gear isn't buyable) oh and lets not forget those people who have Perfect/Brilliant enchantments in their armor and weapons (you know the people who exploited the Fusing bug and not only got the best enchants in game for themselves but got rich in the process).
And lets not forget PVP is not just Arena anymore, it is Gauntylgrym or however you spell it - so end game is going to be completely unbalanced because Cryptic allowed those who exploited to get away with it (look how many stacks of 99 rank 5 and 6 enchants are currently in the AH).
So basically the game balance is completely screwed (new and yet to arrive players have absolutely no chance whatsoever), the economy is completely screwed and end game is completely screwed...
I will leave you to reach your own conclusions on where this game is going now...
For the guys that realise how spastic this new change will be....i suggest the following...Gauntyl is open pvp right? Get together. Get like geared ppl togetehr, and simpl just raype all these "new" players that are supposedly coming in. VERY SIMPLE.....their free teir 1 pvp glory set can stand up to my ancients and full teir 2 with tenebrous,soulforged and plague? LOL maybe in their dreams.
Simple. Devs wanna be unreasonable...we can be unreasonable too. KILL them all in pvp, gauntyl, refuse entry to them in normal dungeouns, trash talk them, say sheet like "Whatcha goona do???? we had the option to gear up! YOU DON"T!" WATCHA GONNA DO??? then kill them, all their friends, over and over.
When new ppl start complaining on forums, quitting, etc etc, then perhaps the guy that thought this change up might throw himself off a building...and things will be reverted back?
Well, think about it. All i can say is...from a bored fully geared player like myself who has nothing more to do since this change....i'm gonna amuse myself by murdering....and i guarantee you...i'm not alone.
Well it wasn't target directly at your post. If i can answer frankly to your post, i think there's AD sinks maybe not enough for a change like this. There's the cat companion, scrolls, respec, rushing companion training, profession, mount, training book for mount and soon companion... + the fact everything in the cash shop can be buy with AD once it's transferred in Zen (fashion items, dye, mounts, bags, respec token, character slot...)
Making BoE item BoP only without anything else, it's bad. I just tried to explain that people comment 1 element out of a complex mechanic change including several new changes.
1) they said there will be special unique item BoE in the dungeons.
2) new seals given will be used to buy set of gear and even new t2 set.
3) a Npc will salvage your BoP gear for AD.
4) dungeons will be more rewarding, an getting gear will feel more like an accomplishment rather than be something common and easily obtainable without doing dungeons. For the people who does dungeons to actually feel they earned something rather than having wasted their time on something everyone can buy.
I don't defend PW, in fact i didn't feel the current loot system was bad. But i think this change could improve the interest in dungeons, people don't try T2, they leave after the first wipe or only queue for the T2 you can exploit, and complain everywhere it's hard, and not for the casual people, but they run everywhere in their T2 gears with 12k+ GS. But because of that they can't lower the difficulty, because then not only a few % of people would sell gear, everyone would and everyone would get it easily, making the item worth nothing. If difficulty is raised, Unique item sold would be control by a tiny % of people and would make the gear inaccessible for the mass.
At least distribution of quality of gear won't be distributed unfairly, unless you really push the argument of only the more elitist and skilled player will get it. But how can you keep a player base without making them proud of an accomplishment they worked hard for it. So as long gear is not only dropped from instance but can be acquired, and people get something in the instance when they haven't been lucky to get their piece of gear (like an option to buy good items from seal vendors) and the quality of gear doesn't make the harder gear to obtain vastly better compared to the easily obtainable ones, i support this change. It was needed and requested.
You have my Ancient castle never CW set, and my Greater Plaguefire enchantment, and my Shadow Weaver's and my Magelord. Shall the Gauntlgrym be known as the graveyard of poor souls who Cryptic doomed from the start.
talk about being immature, this will last for few weeks and then... you will only make the game miserable for people who didn't asked for this. Is this supposed to attract PW sympathy for the poor new players? Maybe actually it will convince people how the previous system was bad, and how a HAMSTER player got abusively geared. So is this really what you want for the game, show people how you can spend millions of AD to be good at the game?
New Player - "Where did you get those double stat enchantments?"
Me - "Oh I got them during open beta, just before the game officially launched, you can't get them anymore." ...[Q,E,R,1]
New Player - "Help!"
If you think this is not ALREADY going to happen if this change takes place....then you are dreaming my friend.
I mean what you think is gonna happen brah? The new wide eyed player is gonna step into a field where he does NOT have the same options that WE HAVE.
What you think is gonna happen eh mother theresa? I'm gonna inspect the guy in pvp, then make a concious effort not to hit him?
Sorry i'm so IMMATURE bro, see you back in this VIDEO GAME that we're both playing k?^^
Oh and you're right...THEY didn't ask for this....but SOMEBODY did.
"ALL Mighty, I know I have sinned and I have benefited as a result."
"That is fine, my child. I will refrain from punishing you or correcting that which allowed you to sin, and in so doing allow others to also sin thereby benefiting as you have."
"Thank you, My Lord."
"No problem, my child. It's only fair. Now go, go go and continue sinning. I am proud of you, my sinning child."
*runs along in glee*
Alright yes, your advantage in the game will last even after the change for decades, it's dumb to change this, you got me there. Really ? Then why you are still there complaining about the changes if it doesn't affect you? Giving feedback ? You're not.
You know your advantage won't last far after the change, you are scared you won't be able to be good at the game without being able to buy your gear and/or exploiting people by selling overpriced stuff on the AH. Why would you care if not.
Although if drops will be bind on pickup then there should be more ways to farm your End-Game gear rather than just running the delve events
Only thing is will salvaging the items have a significant amount of AD compared to current prices in the AH?
GOOD question!
NOW we are getting somewhere.
Ok, let me explain. Simple. Perhaps YOU have alot of time to sit at your computer for 72 hrs straight or something...and do nothing but farm gear.
ME? Sorry, i WORK. I do however have a (obssesive maybe?) addiction to computer games. Fine by me. I pay the bills, i bring home the bacon, i earn enough to spend on my hobby. Am i WRONG? and WHO ARE YOU to tell me i'm wrong son?
So like i said before. YOU who are happy with the changes...fine and good you are entitled to your own opinion AND playstyle.
I "CARE" simply because MY PLAYSTYLE is affected. While your "sense of accomplishment" is wasting your life away infront of the computer...MY sense of accomplishment is to be in a position where i am now, that i can BUY something should i choose to.
SO? u get the picture?
Also as for your comment on scared that ppl will catch up...LOL if a new player can stand having his butt handed to him for 6 months give or take a month...the required time to FARM and get lucky enough with drops to be ON PAR with current ppl's sets. Then I sincerely say...THAT player deserves the bragging right....How many u think going to tolerate it bro?^^
Lets see.
OMG!! ~O.O~
No you didn't!
It would help people to get geared, but wouldn't actually give a proper change to make the gear obtained more rewarding. You would put the effort to get that piece of gear to realize everyone has it because you can buy it in the AH.
This change is to give something more to people that actually succeed challenge and reduce the rewards to simply pay with real money your gear.
I mean whats the point to even try to do dungeons if you can have everything out of it without stepping in. It's an incentive for people to do the contents and thus making them more dependant of the game by giving them a little extra to do it vs buy it.
Because at some points, you'll buy everything you need quickly, queue in pvp, destroy everyone for a week or two and then say: "this game is boring there is nothing to do." While some people will ask or try to join queue for dungeons, but no one will except the one that speed clear them / using exploit to make money, people will say: "sorry you are not geared enough for the content." but the requirment is 8600 GS and i have 10000 GS, they will say : "buy all your best in slot in the AH for few bucks and then queue with us to farm the instance and sell gear with us"... Is this already happening? i feel i've seen this already.. oh well.
This change will loose them money.
Now people spend ad on gear.
You remove the ad sinks then everyone saves it and doesnt use real money anymore.
Btw, maybe the problem is with me, but I can not understand some ppl. This game, and these types of games are all about getting new stuff and earn new gear. If you buy all the gear, stones, enchants, then what else to do? Basically, you start to do every foundry, or do the totally useless (unless you enjoy it
I don't wanna be rude or arrogant (but I am
You all do realize that,there is a chance that you NEVER EVER get your set complete? Or never ever get that t2 Weapon you so badly want even if your group clears t2 content while the cleric is making love with the gwf,the cw is afk on the phone and your tr is sleeping on the keyboard... While your Friend that is in another premade group,gets the same piece you so desperately want,every run,and all he can do with it is salvage it for a few unrefined AD..
Sorry,but there is nothing good or fun in a change that means i have to get lucky to get the gear i want. And nothing else it is,luck,not skill.. Im all for good play beeing rewarded,but not with a rng factor added on top of it ^^
Thats obvious timesink,and moneygrabbing... Next we sell "unbind" scrolls in the ZEN store and there we go.. wouldnt be the first time,although thats just me seeing things a bit darker then they are currently so nvm that one...
Again,defending the change with saying now having gear means having skill or feels like an achievement is BS.. All it means is you were lucky that the things you needed dropped eventually.
GL and have fun
Aside from that, this is why I feel this way;
1. I came from WoW and though I consider myself a skilled player, I found that my 'RNG' was made of nightmares. I went months without winning rolls. I went weeks, months, forever without seeing an item that I needed drop. It was the coffin in the nail of a game that I played and loved since 2005. I don't mean casual play, either. I played daily, several hours a day and sometimes sessions that would make a junkie blush.
I don't want to return to an unrewarding system which could be offset by;
2. Dailies. If this game centers around dailies, then there is another reason not to play it. I might as well go back to the game that I have an established history in and cannot get gear in. At least there, I can fly. Dailies are the lowest form of game play. It's like washing the dishes day in and out. It's boring, unfun, and turns the mind elsewhere, which is why we play games to begin with, to take our mind off of mundane lives, or worries.
3. Salvage sounds petty and like artificial extension. If I cannot get the item I want and need over and over and over and thus that chance seems next to nothing, why should I be happy with 'salvage' when it's just another chance that appears on paper, to be next to nothing.
Need/Greed and need rolls binding gear is ACCEPTABLE. I have championed that and wanted people to get their items fairly, and without worry of a TR 'roleplaying' 'ninja' and taking their cleric boots to the AH. Taking BoP beyond that is digging a grave. A great deal of the success of your game will depend on accessibility. Lower it? Reduce your player base. Reductions in player base result reductions of accessibility to others and you will end up with trash kings on top of worthless piles of nothing.
4. I enjoy strong currency and trading for items, working the AH. If I cannot do that, I see this as having nothing to do. Being unable to run dungeons and sell my personal drops for AD to fund cosmetic mounts and costumes makes this game worthless to me. Your boss mechanics are not fun at all and do not warrant my continued interest beyond profit.
Example; "Boss" appears, thus begins the cycle of ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS ADDS...
5. You just finished milking a ton of AD out of people with the sale, which was needed, but now seems insincere with this announcement of BOP loot.
6. You will force players to buy zen to afford enchants, mounts, dyes, etc. An obvious intent, if they stick around or...
7. You will encourage players to participate in RMT...a thorn in every games market, but this is why it exists. No one likes to be in the have-nots. No one.
8. Whether or not you will admit it. A great deal of exploitation continues, and a great deal of exploited resources still exist. Diamonds, Zen, Items, and Enchants. All of these are stored away, awaiting a rainy day. Now, they will be doled out to the 'scrub' classes, milking every bit of profit that can be had and ensuring that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.
This game is less like a game then, and more like an experiment in sociology. A cruel engineers way of finding out how much bull**** people are willing to take in game, and if you can get them to run the same maze and accept the same disappointment in artificial reality as they will in actual reality.. all the while paying for it.
9. As it is, we cannot even make the best gear in this game through our professions and without spending zen, or astral diamonds, will NEVER be able to make the current tier. You screwed people with that by ensuring that you needed 4 epic tools (about 1m AD each currently) to even have a percentage of a chance to make t3. I am sure this will continue for this other profession upgrade thing, which will also require more tools, more grind, as now professions will have to be leveled on every character, instead of just one.
Seemingly, dragon eggs are only coming from real money trades as well. Nightmare boxes, and profession resource asset packs.
I have a job too, actually i play less than 2-3 hours per day, i'm very busy at the moment. I have bills to pay too.
It's not my sense of accomplishment i care about, it's the fact that the game is a grind fest, it's more efficient to buy everything, do everything after while there is no challenge to then make profit to cover your expense... that's not the game i want.
To be honest i bought some of my gear too, i have no shame to say it, it's actually the norm, since it helps you to get your investment back quickly, i just find bad some people are excluding classes or less geared people that don't buy their stuff so they won't slow down their profit. It's ridiculous, we are able to get all best in slot enchant/gear in a week. The game is already corrupted and he's dying of it, i enjoy this game and i don't want this to happen. No ones does nothing except PvP or farming gear, i would really like to know how many of the 60 that have CN gear, how many of them actually entered in the instance ?
I think it more desirable to make people playing the game instead of this. If it takes months to get geared and the amount of effort/pleasure needed to do is bad, i will complain, but so far we don't have this information. But we have the information the way the game is right now is just plain bad, and i would welcome a change in that direction. They have the potential to make unique items BoP
in dungeons, while rewarding the less lucky and the more casual people, without making a pointless game where the content is secondary.
Good question.
I don't claim to have the answer but I think their intent is to level every single class, and then some, to max level and have them fully geared with epic loots in 3 days ... give or take a day ...
... and then on the fourth or fifth day (whichever one comes first) come to the forums and create dozens of threads complaining that there is nothing to do at end game.
They are already AD sinks, and it's not mandatory it come from buying item... actually buying item is not a sink, the Ad still exists, hence why it's not working and economy is being ravaged... wait until the new items come out, many many players has at least several if not many millions of AD they earned legit.
Just FYI, the Salvage thing is totaly BS... a top Tier two only goes for 8-10k AD to salvage.
But if they do this the only way to make people stay is to have all BOSSES drop a piece of gear for each player aka... players have thier own loot.