Down to 3.5k?!
I don't even know what kind of epic gear you need to hit that. Plain old green level 60 gear barely breaks 1.5k.
Is the goal really to only be viable if you're min/maxing with full sets of epic gear?
If you're level 60 in green gear, then you're not doing epic dungeons and therefore this change will mean little to nothing for you. You can solo just fine without putting down AS once, and you can do most regular dungeons the same way -- though your group will ***** at you if you let them die, understandably so.
Once you get even your Tier 1 purples though, and use the proper enchantments and either the cat or Ioun stone, again properly geared, you can hit far over 3500 Recovery, Crit and Power with very little effort.
To answer your question though, the goal is to be viable when the content is challenging -- i.e. (with current content) in epic dungeons and in PvP. Anything else is a walk in the park you can do naked, using potions (occasionally) and face-rolling.
Idk guys, I'm taking this a bit differently.
People actually have to DODGE now.
Have you tried dodging while holding up block on your GF? My TR dodges just fine, my tank doesn't have that tool, and now with the aggro changes he has even more guys pounding on him. Love the game, but the changes incoming make me question the playability.
If you're level 60 in green gear, then you're not doing epic dungeons and therefore this change will mean little to nothing for you. You can solo just fine without putting down AS once, and you can do most regular dungeons the same way -- though your group will ***** at you if you let them die, understandably so.
There's a small flaw here in that you can't get INTO an epic dungeon until you hit level 60. Let me quote this for emphasis:
I started doing T2 dungeons around May 2nd on my cleric, and they weren't even close to as easy as they are now, wearing often incomplete T1 sets and some blues or even greens. We first cleared many of the T2s using 2 clerics, just like the first CN clears were done using 2 clerics, because that is how you do difficult content.
You can do most of the solo content without astral shield, but I'm not too sure about the last zone or two. Maybe you can manage with a lot of potions, but I don't think there's any way you're taking down an Illithid Mastermind and his companions.
Regular dungeons are almost all before you can even get Astral Seal, so it's true this change won't affect that. That's also a part of why regular dungeons are an exercise in frustration, but that might be better with some of the boss changes listed in the patch notes.
(And this is without bringing up the Cleanse ultra-nerf . . . .)
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited June 2013
It would be so easy to properly balance this:
Divinity Astral Shield should have the old duration but no heal.
Divinity Bastion of Health should get the health regen of the old divinity AS.
Baam, 2 skills fixed and suddenly bastion of Health has a use again.
Divinity Astral Shield should have the old duration but no heal.
Divinity Bastion of Health should get the health regen of the old divinity AS.
Baam, 2 skills fixed and suddenly bastion of Health has a use again.
Awesome.
So instead of having 1 of my 3 encounter slots taken up I get to have 2 of 3 taken up.
Not to mention that I would have to cast 2 spells in Divine mode instead of 1.
Good luck with the Divine regen.
Idk guys, I'm taking this a bit differently.
People actually have to DODGE now. Plus, with the ****ty returns on recovery for this CD, I'd take this as an opportunity to swap out some recovery for other stats like power or defense.
The question becomes "can your party survive 5 seconds without blue?"
EVERYONE has to play smarter now. Your party members have to use pots (which they should be doing anyway) and dodge a bit more.
YOU will have to pay attention to fights and know when the best time to put down the shield. That's going to take more concentration, and more skill. And we're a skillful bunch, yo.
So let's use the Preview to test out if parties can survive that 5 seconds. If you swap out some of that recovery for power, your heals should "hit" a bit harder to make up for it. Drop down to 3.5k recovery and then jack up your Power/Defense and see if it's really that much harder.
If everyone can DODGE, survive the 5 seconds and has potions for burst healing, then really there is no point in having a Healing class. Buff up the potions by lowering the cooldown and convert the cleric to a primary party buffer/enemy debuffer, secondary DPS/CC, self healing off tank and remove any illusions about a party healer.
If people still need a healing class it's because they didn't DODGE, are gimp, or foolish for having run out of potions </sarcasm>.
If we could avoid 99% of the ACTUAL damage, we wouldn't need a healer, but we do because it's virtually and literally impossible to avoid the add's damage, even when running. They hit you even when they can't touch you. Amazing.
NOTE: that 99% excludes BIG RED SHINY CIRCLES. Those don't even count as damage.
If we could avoid 99% of the ACTUAL damage, we wouldn't need a healer, but we do because it's virtually and literally impossible to avoid the add's damage, even when running. They hit you even when they can't touch you. Amazing.
NOTE: that 99% excludes BIG RED SHINY CIRCLES. Those don't even count as damage.
love the invisible hands at Dracolich.
"What you weren't inside a red circle, puck that noise, that this hit anyway!"
If we could avoid 99% of the ACTUAL damage, we wouldn't need a healer, but we do because it's virtually and literally impossible to avoid the add's damage, even when running. They hit you even when they can't touch you. Amazing.
NOTE: that 99% excludes BIG RED SHINY CIRCLES. Those don't even count as damage.
THIS. THIS. THIS.
THIS X100000000000000000000000000000000000
People need to understand this. PSUEDO-ACTION RPG.
This is why 100% uptime Astral Shield was seriously the most important thing clerics did, it's literally like 90% of what our class is about right now.
I just did some testing on Mimic server. Not sure which thread to throw this in so I guess I'll put it here. This is more on how important AS is and less on how people will complete content with the nerf, just fyi.
I ran Epic Spider with DC, GWFx2, TR, GF. The DC (myself) is full t2 and CN set. GF is a regular in my groups and has full t2 and CN set. One of the GWFs was full T2, CN set, perfect enchant, GS over 13k. TR and GWF#2 were in mostly t2 and some t1/pvp gear. All that is to just give an idea of how strong the group was. TR was also a friend, not a pug.
First I wanted to try running without AS at all, so I did that. I was using Sunburst, D-FF, and then rotating between Healing Word and Bastion of Health, testing both. Everyone learned pretty quick why AS is so important. We wiped on the first boss, or near enough at least, we killed him but the last of us died as soon as the boss died.
We wiped once or twice clearing to the 2nd boss. A large part of this was the lack of AS, but the cleanse nerf also played a serious role. The revive debuff thing makes a HUGE difference. We managed to kill the 2nd boss without any permanent deaths, miraculously.
We then wiped, gloriously I might add, to the phase spiders before boss room. I anticipated that, of course. We lasted about 15 seconds I think. I pulled out AS to get past them.
Finally, I wanted to try the final boss without AS. As you might have guessed, we wiped within a minute, probably closer to 40 seconds. Yeah, then we went and killed her while I used AS, but that is hardly worth notice considering our gear far outstripping the place.
None of this testing is super useful except to say that Astral Shield is without a doubt the SINGLE REQUIRED POWER in the game. Every other ability, regardless of class, is interchangeable and optional. Astral Shield is absolutely required for any remotely difficult content, and the difference between using the power and not using it is astounding.
this this times 100
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
I just did some testing on Mimic server. Not sure which thread to throw this in so I guess I'll put it here. This is more on how important AS is and less on how people will complete content with the nerf, just fyi.
I ran Epic Spider with DC, GWFx2, TR, GF. The DC (myself) is full t2 and CN set. GF is a regular in my groups and has full t2 and CN set. One of the GWFs was full T2, CN set, perfect enchant, GS over 13k. TR and GWF#2 were in mostly t2 and some t1/pvp gear. All that is to just give an idea of how strong the group was. TR was also a friend, not a pug.
First I wanted to try running without AS at all, so I did that. I was using Sunburst, D-FF, and then rotating between Healing Word and Bastion of Health, testing both. Everyone learned pretty quick why AS is so important. We wiped on the first boss, or near enough at least, we killed him but the last of us died as soon as the boss died.
We wiped once or twice clearing to the 2nd boss. A large part of this was the lack of AS, but the cleanse nerf also played a serious role. The revive debuff thing makes a HUGE difference. We managed to kill the 2nd boss without any permanent deaths, miraculously.
We then wiped, gloriously I might add, to the phase spiders before boss room. I anticipated that, of course. We lasted about 15 seconds I think. I pulled out AS to get past them.
Finally, I wanted to try the final boss without AS. As you might have guessed, we wiped within a minute, probably closer to 40 seconds. Yeah, then we went and killed her while I used AS, but that is hardly worth notice considering our gear far outstripping the place.
None of this testing is super useful except to say that Astral Shield is without a doubt the SINGLE REQUIRED POWER in the game. Every other ability, regardless of class, is interchangeable and optional. Astral Shield is absolutely required for any remotely difficult content, and the difference between using the power and not using it is astounding.
This is what I was expecting.
Well - Cryptic - do something. If u think we shouldnt use AS (by nerfing it into the ground) buff our other heal abillities.
I mean I myself would appreciate it. More builds. More balanced encounters. Why not - but do it pls asap.
THANKS!!!
Hint: Start by dividing the CD of BoH by 2. Make CD of Healing Word charges depending on recovery. Pro-tips for free.
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I've always been a pvp person foremost, although I do a fair bit of PVE. Enough to be purpled up in t2. I thought about keeping the game installed to do PVE content after this patch, because I think a cleric might still be doable in PVE, but apparently the new content is going to force me into PVP where I will be nothing but a poor damage target with 10 seconds to survive. The main advantage to being a cleric in pvp in this game was the ability to survive and distract more than equal numbers of opponents causing them to spend more resources to kill you than 1. This allowed your forces to overwhelm other areas.
Now the dc in pvp will have crappy healing, no damage, bad debuffs, and awful crowd control coupled with the ability to be killed in under 2 seconds by at least 3 classes. Who wants that HAMSTER in a pvp match. This game had the cleric going in a good direction with survive-ability, fast paced action, and an enjoyable pace, now it's just a road bump.
Well I can say this, my cleric is at 10K GS, and post patch, he will be retired until I hear how things go and smooth out possibly with an alternative build. I usually don't do builds but as expensive as respec'ing is, I am not going to waste it. If it is as sucky as most of us think it will be, I will wait till they buff clerics again and stick with my rogue.
People think clerics are rare now... people are going to have to come up with whole knew strategies to do things clericless...
Always spam for DC's in the Enclave and how many 4 person groups have you pugged in, only to be almost instantly kicked out because they are waiting for a cleric?
I am telling ya, Cryptic and the Devs HATE clerics. Don't know why they want to nerf one of the least played and thankless classes in MMO's.
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
They aren't the first game to screw over clerics, and they aren't the first game that is going to feel the wrath of the entire playerbase over it. I remember in EQ there was an increase to heal aggro, and there were mass cancellations across accounts that had nothing to do with clerics, because people got pissed that clerics weren't willing to be abused, and in turn wouldn't enable content for other players.
I've seen this kind of stuff play out in multiple MMO's. Rookie mistake. You make your support classes enjoyable, and the entire game for all classes is enjoyable in kind.
They aren't the first game to screw over clerics, and they aren't the first game that is going to feel the wrath of the entire playerbase over it. I remember in EQ there was an increase to heal aggro, and there were mass cancellations across accounts that had nothing to do with clerics, because people got pissed that clerics weren't willing to be abused, and in turn wouldn't enable content for other players.
I've seen this kind of stuff play out in multiple MMO's. Rookie mistake. You make your support classes enjoyable, and the entire game for all classes is enjoyable in kind.
1000 times this. I've seen it in almost every MMO I've played over getting on for a decade now. Healers are always given the short end of the stick, then when people stop playing them because of it everyone else gets riled up.
DPS classes get constant buffs and adjustments (which the dps players call nerfs) but healers, well that's generally just a constant cycle of nerfs to keep the dps players happy.
But I agree, if you don't keep your healing/support players happy then everyone loses in the long run.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well - Cryptic - do something. If u think we shouldnt use AS (by nerfing it into the ground) buff our other heal abillities.
It's still one of our strongest support skills even with the fix.
I do think that BoH could be improved a bit, though I'd rather see them double the healing than halve the CD. I don't wanna see clerics turned once again into a nannybot heal-spam machine like in every other MMO.
It's still one of our strongest support skills even with the fix.
I do think that BoH could be improved a bit, though I'd rather see them double the healing than halve the CD. I don't wanna see clerics turned once again into a nannybot heal-spam machine like in every other MMO.
not really, mostly AS more protecting the user than give it to tanker. now, reducing uptime, pointless cleanse, and -40% HoT, keep the cleric alive is more crazier than before
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
not really, mostly AS more protecting the user than give it to tanker. now, reducing uptime, pointless cleanse, and -40% HoT, keep the cleric alive is more crazier than before
You're forgetting that they've also changed the aggro system, tanks can pull/hold aggro more reliably, and clerics get fewer mobs on them. So if the fights get bad, assign a GF/GWF to protecting the cleric like you should've been doing anyway.
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You're forgetting that they've also changed the aggro system, tanks can pull/hold aggro more reliably, and clerics get fewer mobs on them. So if the fights get bad, assign a GF/GWF to protecting the cleric like you should've been doing anyway.
Exactly how are they supposed to hold the aggro of the 1200gs rogue that is on the back of the cleric in PVP? Remember that the new expansion is PVP and PVE to get to content.
Do you REALLY feel like PVPing with a cleric that can't survive more than 10 seconds in any situation because they are always the focus target? I mean right now I lose focus in pvp a lot, but that's because people know I'm just going to come around and chain with AS, and I dodge and run around like a crazy person. However, if that circle drops everyone locks onto me like a laser, they aren't stupid.
The fix to stacking really was the solution to the invulnerable cleric. With one circle down I'm plenty squishy when I start getting hit with knockbacks, stuns, and focus'd.
It's still one of our strongest support skills even with the fix.
I do think that BoH could be improved a bit, though I'd rather see them double the healing than halve the CD. I don't wanna see clerics turned once again into a nannybot heal-spam machine like in every other MMO.
Who gives a HAMSTER if AS heals the group, it keeps the cleric alive!!! I don't think AS makes the cleric a heal-bot. It frees the cleric FROM being a heal bot. Without it clerics will be forced to keep gimp heals in their other slots instead of loading up for dps for those times it is down.
If you are going to force people through PVP and PVE you have to balance for both. You can't just balance for stupid mobs, you have to balance for people with minds.
Remember that the new expansion is PVP and PVE to get to content.
We'll have to see how it is; but currently there's really no need to go to Gaunt unless you want too. T1 dungeon and T2 dungeon...so same loot as you get from the current dungeons just in a dif format...On top of that it's a 2 part thing just to get into the dungeon, the first part your just completing quests, etc and if you win that part you get a Def buff for the pvp part, which is the same as the current PVP (control 5 points) so really simply running around and not dieing is preferable to actually standing around and killing stuff. We may not be able to remain static in PVP anymroe but we've still got more survivability than a lot of people
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warsirenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Exactly how are they supposed to hold the aggro of the 1200gs rogue that is on the back of the cleric in PVP? Remember that the new expansion is PVP and PVE to get to content.
I think maybe you should read every classes patch notes. Rogues are getting a considerable dps nerf.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Who gives a HAMSTER if AS heals the group, it keeps the cleric alive!!! I don't think AS makes the cleric a heal-bot.
I wasn't talking about AS, I was talking about the suggestion to halve BoH cooldown IN THE POST I QUOTED, which obviously you didn't read.
PvP I don't discuss because it's an extra feature/afterthought, plus Gauntl PvE success will give you a significant PvP boost, so PvE is still more important. Also, again the posts I QUOTED and specifically responded to talked about PvE, so no need to quote ME out of context.
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think maybe you should read every classes patch notes. Rogues are getting a considerable dps nerf.
Ok, then how do they hold the aggro of a 1200gs GWF? Or any other class that can lay down the big beats. My big beef with this is that it's going to wreck the cleric in PvP, a place where the cleric that wasn't stacking AS really wasn't really that great to begin with. The developers are pushing to make PVP a more vital step in accomplishing PVE tasks. I really do like both aspects of this game, I like PVP a bit more, but PVE is fun too, so I would drop PVP completely if this goes in and be happy, but the game is going to push me into it whether I want to or not.
We'll have to see how it is; but currently there's really no need to go to Gaunt unless you want too. T1 dungeon and T2 dungeon...so same loot as you get from the current dungeons just in a dif format...On top of that it's a 2 part thing just to get into the dungeon, the first part your just completing quests, etc and if you win that part you get a Def buff for the pvp part, which is the same as the current PVP (control 5 points) so really simply running around and not dieing is preferable to actually standing around and killing stuff. We may not be able to remain static in PVP anymroe but we've still got more survivability than a lot of people
Not sure that this is incorrect, however I would like to know which class we have more ability to survive than. A rogue can stealth away, a wizard can blink away, tanks are tanks. If I run I'm going to get mowed down, the slide doesn't get far enough away to get out of the range of much, and it takes a ton of stamina, so it's only a 2 shot thing. Currently standing still and holding holy ground while sliding back and forth behind other friendlies, tossing dots, nukes, forgemasters, etc is the only way to survive any length of time, and it takes a pretty fair amount of skill at that.
You're forgetting that they've also changed the aggro system, tanks can pull/hold aggro more reliably, and clerics get fewer mobs on them. So if the fights get bad, assign a GF/GWF to protecting the cleric like you should've been doing anyway.
Free spawning mobs (which there is a ton of in boss fights) will alpha strike the cleric constantly, and when AS falls off, that will insta gib them.
The game is balanced around 100% uptime Astral Shield and they need to fix that.
I'm worried about PvP balance right now. PvE is always doable with a skilled team. PvP will be an aspect of our PvE progression now and I believe that is where most of the balancing will lie from this point on if they continue with this current game-plan. Given the fact that it will be more difficult for a cleric to excel in that aspect of the game, coupled with markedly less rewards per effort for the class in terms of pvp, I am expecting most people to carry a dps spec around with maybe AS stuck in an encounter slot since(even with the rebalance) it's still the best we have. Time will tell; but the patch notes tell nearly as much...
Comments
Down to 3.5k?!
I don't even know what kind of epic gear you need to hit that. Plain old green level 60 gear barely breaks 1.5k.
Is the goal really to only be viable if you're min/maxing with full sets of epic gear?
If you're level 60 in green gear, then you're not doing epic dungeons and therefore this change will mean little to nothing for you. You can solo just fine without putting down AS once, and you can do most regular dungeons the same way -- though your group will ***** at you if you let them die, understandably so.
Once you get even your Tier 1 purples though, and use the proper enchantments and either the cat or Ioun stone, again properly geared, you can hit far over 3500 Recovery, Crit and Power with very little effort.
To answer your question though, the goal is to be viable when the content is challenging -- i.e. (with current content) in epic dungeons and in PvP. Anything else is a walk in the park you can do naked, using potions (occasionally) and face-rolling.
- What Class Are You? -
Have you tried dodging while holding up block on your GF? My TR dodges just fine, my tank doesn't have that tool, and now with the aggro changes he has even more guys pounding on him. Love the game, but the changes incoming make me question the playability.
There's a small flaw here in that you can't get INTO an epic dungeon until you hit level 60. Let me quote this for emphasis:
You can do most of the solo content without astral shield, but I'm not too sure about the last zone or two. Maybe you can manage with a lot of potions, but I don't think there's any way you're taking down an Illithid Mastermind and his companions.
Regular dungeons are almost all before you can even get Astral Seal, so it's true this change won't affect that. That's also a part of why regular dungeons are an exercise in frustration, but that might be better with some of the boss changes listed in the patch notes.
(And this is without bringing up the Cleanse ultra-nerf . . . .)
Divinity Astral Shield should have the old duration but no heal.
Divinity Bastion of Health should get the health regen of the old divinity AS.
Baam, 2 skills fixed and suddenly bastion of Health has a use again.
Or even better.
Bastion of Health now places an Astral Shield afterwards for like 5 seconds.
Replace Astral Shield with some kind of active protection-style spell.
Awesome.
So instead of having 1 of my 3 encounter slots taken up I get to have 2 of 3 taken up.
Not to mention that I would have to cast 2 spells in Divine mode instead of 1.
Good luck with the Divine regen.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "active protection"?
If everyone can DODGE, survive the 5 seconds and has potions for burst healing, then really there is no point in having a Healing class. Buff up the potions by lowering the cooldown and convert the cleric to a primary party buffer/enemy debuffer, secondary DPS/CC, self healing off tank and remove any illusions about a party healer.
If people still need a healing class it's because they didn't DODGE, are gimp, or foolish for having run out of potions </sarcasm>.
NOTE: that 99% excludes BIG RED SHINY CIRCLES. Those don't even count as damage.
I want this class in NW.
love the invisible hands at Dracolich.
"What you weren't inside a red circle, puck that noise, that this hit anyway!"
THIS. THIS. THIS.
THIS X100000000000000000000000000000000000
People need to understand this. PSUEDO-ACTION RPG.
This is why 100% uptime Astral Shield was seriously the most important thing clerics did, it's literally like 90% of what our class is about right now.
And I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE it.
this this times 100
2w3eds z fvg5bt6ghynj6uik7,nm.k 9;po
Lovin the new title of the game...
"A sin is a terrible burden to bare, Remdemption is the only solution."
This is what I was expecting.
Well - Cryptic - do something. If u think we shouldnt use AS (by nerfing it into the ground) buff our other heal abillities.
I mean I myself would appreciate it. More builds. More balanced encounters. Why not - but do it pls asap.
THANKS!!!
Hint: Start by dividing the CD of BoH by 2. Make CD of Healing Word charges depending on recovery. Pro-tips for free.
Now the dc in pvp will have crappy healing, no damage, bad debuffs, and awful crowd control coupled with the ability to be killed in under 2 seconds by at least 3 classes. Who wants that HAMSTER in a pvp match. This game had the cleric going in a good direction with survive-ability, fast paced action, and an enjoyable pace, now it's just a road bump.
People think clerics are rare now... people are going to have to come up with whole knew strategies to do things clericless...
Always spam for DC's in the Enclave and how many 4 person groups have you pugged in, only to be almost instantly kicked out because they are waiting for a cleric?
I am telling ya, Cryptic and the Devs HATE clerics. Don't know why they want to nerf one of the least played and thankless classes in MMO's.
I've seen this kind of stuff play out in multiple MMO's. Rookie mistake. You make your support classes enjoyable, and the entire game for all classes is enjoyable in kind.
1000 times this. I've seen it in almost every MMO I've played over getting on for a decade now. Healers are always given the short end of the stick, then when people stop playing them because of it everyone else gets riled up.
DPS classes get constant buffs and adjustments (which the dps players call nerfs) but healers, well that's generally just a constant cycle of nerfs to keep the dps players happy.
But I agree, if you don't keep your healing/support players happy then everyone loses in the long run.
I do think that BoH could be improved a bit, though I'd rather see them double the healing than halve the CD. I don't wanna see clerics turned once again into a nannybot heal-spam machine like in every other MMO.
not really, mostly AS more protecting the user than give it to tanker. now, reducing uptime, pointless cleanse, and -40% HoT, keep the cleric alive is more crazier than before
You're forgetting that they've also changed the aggro system, tanks can pull/hold aggro more reliably, and clerics get fewer mobs on them. So if the fights get bad, assign a GF/GWF to protecting the cleric like you should've been doing anyway.
Exactly how are they supposed to hold the aggro of the 1200gs rogue that is on the back of the cleric in PVP? Remember that the new expansion is PVP and PVE to get to content.
Do you REALLY feel like PVPing with a cleric that can't survive more than 10 seconds in any situation because they are always the focus target? I mean right now I lose focus in pvp a lot, but that's because people know I'm just going to come around and chain with AS, and I dodge and run around like a crazy person. However, if that circle drops everyone locks onto me like a laser, they aren't stupid.
The fix to stacking really was the solution to the invulnerable cleric. With one circle down I'm plenty squishy when I start getting hit with knockbacks, stuns, and focus'd.
Who gives a HAMSTER if AS heals the group, it keeps the cleric alive!!! I don't think AS makes the cleric a heal-bot. It frees the cleric FROM being a heal bot. Without it clerics will be forced to keep gimp heals in their other slots instead of loading up for dps for those times it is down.
If you are going to force people through PVP and PVE you have to balance for both. You can't just balance for stupid mobs, you have to balance for people with minds.
We'll have to see how it is; but currently there's really no need to go to Gaunt unless you want too. T1 dungeon and T2 dungeon...so same loot as you get from the current dungeons just in a dif format...On top of that it's a 2 part thing just to get into the dungeon, the first part your just completing quests, etc and if you win that part you get a Def buff for the pvp part, which is the same as the current PVP (control 5 points) so really simply running around and not dieing is preferable to actually standing around and killing stuff. We may not be able to remain static in PVP anymroe but we've still got more survivability than a lot of people
I think maybe you should read every classes patch notes. Rogues are getting a considerable dps nerf.
I wasn't talking about AS, I was talking about the suggestion to halve BoH cooldown IN THE POST I QUOTED, which obviously you didn't read.
PvP I don't discuss because it's an extra feature/afterthought, plus Gauntl PvE success will give you a significant PvP boost, so PvE is still more important. Also, again the posts I QUOTED and specifically responded to talked about PvE, so no need to quote ME out of context.
Ok, then how do they hold the aggro of a 1200gs GWF? Or any other class that can lay down the big beats. My big beef with this is that it's going to wreck the cleric in PvP, a place where the cleric that wasn't stacking AS really wasn't really that great to begin with. The developers are pushing to make PVP a more vital step in accomplishing PVE tasks. I really do like both aspects of this game, I like PVP a bit more, but PVE is fun too, so I would drop PVP completely if this goes in and be happy, but the game is going to push me into it whether I want to or not.
Not sure that this is incorrect, however I would like to know which class we have more ability to survive than. A rogue can stealth away, a wizard can blink away, tanks are tanks. If I run I'm going to get mowed down, the slide doesn't get far enough away to get out of the range of much, and it takes a ton of stamina, so it's only a 2 shot thing. Currently standing still and holding holy ground while sliding back and forth behind other friendlies, tossing dots, nukes, forgemasters, etc is the only way to survive any length of time, and it takes a pretty fair amount of skill at that.
Free spawning mobs (which there is a ton of in boss fights) will alpha strike the cleric constantly, and when AS falls off, that will insta gib them.
The game is balanced around 100% uptime Astral Shield and they need to fix that.