I played the preview shard a bit, From rogues being almsot top of the table(in terms of kills not points) alot being the *assassination style class*( meant to kill fast and effectively, AS EXPECTED FROM SUCH CLASSES) to being at the bottom alot now with very low K : D ratios. what has been done to the rogues has made me feel like they are invalid roles. They are still good in PVE, but useless in PVP. CWs still got u CCed the whole time they kill you and still have huge damage.
Im very confused about the changes to classes, only having played a rogue, my point is biased I know. But they are no more then low HP punching bags now with no real healing or defence other then *Impossible to catch* encounter, and a couple of short duration dazes/stuns
GWFs, well im glad I found them harder to kill and evade. they needed that buff. i still became a punching bag to them even having alot of PVP experiance pre-patched preview shard. the only class in my opinion the rogue has a chance of killing in PVP other then rogues themselves.
I find that the CW's really aren't getting much of a nerf. They're out of control in pvp, their teleport uses hardly any stamina giving them the ability to not only dodge 3 encounter attacks with 1 stamina bar, but they actually can dodge 4 times easily.
Two CW's together can kill a class instantly with 1 encounter power. That means they can sit up on walls sending nukes at melee while they can do nothing to get away because wizards seem to have infinite range as long as they start the cast while you're relatively close. Meaning that two of them up in a unreachable spot can kill off 1 person what, every 10-14 seconds? And all the while in between those 12 seconds they can basically cc up a storm.
I know rogue's seemed too OP in PvP, but honestly they're nothing compared to how huge of a power house the CW is in PvP. Sure they're squishy, but you need to be able to hit them in order to kill them and with teleport ease like they have.. You'll wish you didn't 1v1 a CW. (Unless you're playing against someone who can't manage to dodge, which that'll bring down any class)
what has been done to the rogues has made me feel like they are invalid roles.
Hey I liked my rogue being a quick kill assassin too, but try playing a GWF or GF in the current version of the game, you'll think rogues are still super stars in testing compared to how useless they are.
You tested the TR? Then you saw that when you applied duelist fury to 10 stacks and kept applying it that it fell off anyways and you still had 10 stacks with no bleed? Real useful patch... they will either make or break the game with this patch and it looks like they are going to break it. There are way too many bugs still remaining in the game to worry about balancing classes; by all means buff GWFs and figure out another way to deal with the pvp damage that will increase because of it. GWF is probably the hardest class to play because of the fact that you have to sprint cancel every ability; but their damage will be #1 after this patch and no reason to play a TR because of it.
So basically what you're saying is the game will be broke because TR's aren't going to always be top dps. But the game wasn't broken when the GWF was worthless to play. Also the rogue's still do wicked damage in PvP. Sounds like you're sad not to be OP anymore.
I don't care about pvp; lower our damage in pvp by 70% I do care that we are extremely squishy and can't press tab and mitigate 50% damage and we're going to do lesser damage than the class designed to offtank and mow down adds? Rogues are single target dps, that's what I care about. It's fine though when you can't figure out why the dracolich fight is lasting 10mins longer than normal, you'll wish that rogue didn't have a broken dot. It's whatever though time to find a new game.
I play a DC as my primary character. I haven't hit dungeon content yet but everything I've been reading about Astral Shield's nerfing makes me nervous, particularly with the cooldown and duration. I can, and sometimes do, play without it (heck, all Clerics before 50 had to make do without it) but at end game, it would still mean two Clerics for AS uptime to be near 100%. The stacking issue was a bug and needed to go. And if the balance is for PvP? Well, guess what? I can stand in my shield and get killed like everyone else, with just ONE shield. I am not invincible in my shield. I'd like to see some adjustments made to the skill so that one could possibly have near 100% but even 80-90% uptime is better than what the test server has currently.
Onto another issue I haven't seen many post about, and while I'm not very fond of PvP, I do like to play around in it from time to time and dabble in it, and I think, with the proposed balance changes, it just got 10x worse. Botters run scripts, they can't be kicked now so if your team has bots, guess what? You're going to lose. And losing means less Glory and less XP (if you're leveling with PvP). Which also invites the jokers. Disconnects could be rampant. Someone doesn't like their team? Disconnect. Their team will be screwed for the rest of the match since, the match already started. Then you have the people who might just be doing it on purpose to make sure everyone gets less benefits, since, if a match doesn't take a certain amount of time, the rewards are lowered. It's a terrible thing, really. It sets up actual players who enjoy playing to get gimped and messed with by players who like to joke around. That's not cool. In other words, while you're punishing real players, you're also inviting unsavory players to ruin the fun for everyone too.
I posted this in a thread in "The Barracks" but this thread is specifically looking for feedback so I'll copy it here too...
I haven't really played Instigator Spec yet, but Destroyer Spec gets Determination from attacking, something I feel should be a baseline class component for GWFs, because only building it when being hit is pretty silly for a DPS class, it makes sense when we are in fact tanking, but I digress.
I mean in group content everyone but the Tank (pretty much the GF 90% of the time, or should be) should be avoiding damage as best as they can and taking as close to 0 damage as possible, basically they shouldn't be getting hit at all in a perfect world / situation.
I'm specced Sentinel myself even though my guild has two main GF tanks that do all the tanking. I like the survivability and the option to off-tank if needed, but when not off tanking / tanking it would be nice to push out some more DPS.
Every other class seems to be able to build / use their class mechanic pretty efficiently and often, except for GWFs (unless they are specced Destroyer). By default we only build Determination from being Hit and getting Killing Blows, which isn't always easy especially with CWs knocking everything around and doing crazy AoE DPS.
I feel like they should add the building Determination from Attacking to GWFs as a baseline thing and add something else useful to the Destroyer Capstone IMHO. Like make extra Determination on Crit, or whatever.
Daring Shout sucks compared to Roar for determination generation as far as I can tell from experience, and has a much longer cool down to boot. I really hope this patch brings it more on par with Roar, it in fact should generate more determination then Roar IMHO, considering Roar is a interrupt and a pushback / knockback as well, and does decent damage on top of that.
That and I feel like they need to change the way Marks work, Marks should last their ENTIRE duration (something that is abysmally short as it is), pretty dumb that they go away after the marked target hits you. Especially when you're specced as Sentinel using the Intimidation Feat which increases the threat generation of said ability, or even when you're playing Solo, because obviously if your Solo or Pulling threat with the ability the mobs are going to hit you, no brainer there.
So bottom line is I want Marks to last the entire duration (would help our dps overall and make us more helpful in groups), Daring Shout to generate more Determination / Action Points to be more on Par with Roar (and also do more damage with the Intimidation Feat because the 5% is abysmal, but it looks like they are addressing that slightly in the patch), for GWFs to build Determination by attacking at a base line level, and also Indomitable Battle Strike should give you the bonus action points and mark nearby enemies regardless of you getting the killing blow with that encounter or not.
Am I crazy, do others feel this way, would this make us OP, what do you think?
The change in Astral Shield duration to 10 seconds has been discussed much already, but most of the feedback has focussed on PvE.
My concern is what effect the Astral Shield change will have on PvP balance.
Clerics were middle of the road if not in the lower half of PvP as it stands now especially with the scoring system rewarding DPS (kills) and mobility (tower capture) more than buffs and heals.
Without the ability to keep Astral Shield up consistently, the cleric is pretty much toast in PvP, especially since there was no appreciable increase in damage mitigation, healing or DPS to offset the shorter Astral Shield duration. The change in healing threat generation obviously has no effect in PvP.
My recommendation:
Change the cooldown from the current 17.6 seconds to 12.6 seconds to match the decrease in in Astral shield duration. Even with my proposed decrease in cooldown, Astral Shield will be weaker than in it's current form on the live servers since clerics will have to burn more divinity to keep up a consistent shield.
Another option could be to change the astral shield from a static circle on the ground to a Sunburst heal type mechanic where all allies within a set radius around the cleric when the spell is cast receives the shield for a 10 second duration. This change would allow people to move around with the astral shield without being fixed to a spot since the buff would become a personal buff and not tied to a location on the ground. The advantage of increased moblility could offset the downside of the uptime gap. But since I'm not sure of all the consequences of the trade off, I don't recommend this change but am throwing it out there for consideration.
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mkretributionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
This "huge" patch is far far far away from saving dps GWF.
So far i haven't seen any offensive GWF FEATS getting improves (only encounters cooldown reduced)
And the worst thing is that we destroyer GWF we DON"T use the encounters u buffed.
Yes we were supposed to be a striker class like the rogue as i quote from neverwinter wiki and the youtube video introducing the GWF class
""The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength..."
For a good dps GWF
Indomitable battle strike and Flourish along with battle fury and Slam as daily. Nothing has been improved..... And our dps feats were totally forgotten.
I personally rerolled a TR. I do x3 more damage easily than a same geared GWF. And i have More surviability unlike GWF who has 0 defensive spells , and their armor wont save them as they has significantly less armor than compared to a GF and 0 evasive encounters. Unlike TR who got the awesome "impossible to catch or even smoke bomb which is literally a sanctuary cloud" , and dont forget rogues can dodge while we can only sprint to our deaths. Without being biased , and having played both classes intensively , i will chose a rogue in my party without any hesitation over a GWF, because rogues with their tiny kitchen knives outshines the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sword wielder into every possible way.
I just love the way rogues can solo dps a boss while avoiding its attacks without taking a single damage or even using impossible to catch to avoid wide scale AOE and at the same time doing huge damage. A GWF will never be able to do that sadly Thats why rational people will never invite them to castle never. Just business nth personal , they are not played by bad people , they are just a bad broken class which is outshined by all others in every single aspect and have NO distinct role which makes them invaluable in a party. Unless i mean RADICAL and id say that word again RADICAL changes are done , i'd seriously warn people to avoid this class. I cried over it , i fought for it , i got all the best in game gear , including ancient mh/oh , i respecced 3 times with tokens , i read abt it , experimented abt it.... but really now i regret pouring so much AD and time resources into it. I could have invested all these building another character with a different class. I hope someday there is a justice for dps GWF.
-SAd thing my GWF is named "Justice" in game...
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ravenouzxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited June 2013
as my first impression on shard as a CW
Really?
you're going to nerf 75% of our damage but not fix the 50 bugs with skills/feats?
haha just put the TOPDPS/FLAVOROFTHEMONTH on another class every other patch like blizzard did
This "huge" patch is far far far away from saving dps GWF.
So far i haven't seen any offensive GWF FEATS getting improves (only encounters cooldown reduced)
And the worst thing is that we destroyer GWF we DON"T use the encounters u buffed.
Yes we were supposed to be a striker class like the rogue as i quote from neverwinter wiki and the youtube video introducing the GWF class
""The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength..."
For a good dps GWF
Indomitable battle strike and Flourish along with battle fury and Slam as daily. Nothing has been improved..... And our dps feats were totally forgotten.
I personally rerolled a TR. I do x3 more damage easily than a same geared GWF. And i have More surviability unlike GWF who has 0 defensive spells , and their armor wont save them as they has significantly less armor than compared to a GF and 0 evasive encounters. Unlike TR who got the awesome "impossible to catch or even smoke bomb which is literally a sanctuary cloud" , and dont forget rogues can dodge while we can only sprint to our deaths. Without being biased , and having played both classes intensively , i will chose a rogue in my party without any hesitation over a GWF, because rogues with their tiny kitchen knives outshines the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sword wielder into every possible way.
I just love the way rogues can solo dps a boss while avoiding its attacks without taking a single damage or even using impossible to catch to avoid wide scale AOE and at the same time doing huge damage. A GWF will never be able to do that sadly Thats why rational people will never invite them to castle never. Just business nth personal , they are not played by bad people , they are just a bad broken class which is outshined by all others in every single aspect and have NO distinct role which makes them invaluable in a party. Unless i mean RADICAL and id say that word again RADICAL changes are done , i'd seriously warn people to avoid this class. I cried over it , i fought for it , i got all the best in game gear , including ancient mh/oh , i respecced 3 times with tokens , i read abt it , experimented abt it.... but really now i regret pouring so much AD and time resources into it. I could have invested all these building another character with a different class. I hope someday there is a justice for dps GWF.
-SAd thing my GWF is named "Justice" in game...
I hope Devs will read this. Its true instead of buffing our Dps skill they buffed the unusual feats which is useless
Wow, so much butthurt. You all should try a GWF before the patch is implemented and you'll realise you have it extremely good right now, and post patch will probably still have it relatively good. I swear, no sense of proportion in you lot.
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darkstorn42Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This "huge" patch is far far far away from saving dps GWF.
So far i haven't seen any offensive GWF FEATS getting improves (only encounters cooldown reduced)
And the worst thing is that we destroyer GWF we DON"T use the encounters u buffed.
Yes we were supposed to be a striker class like the rogue as i quote from neverwinter wiki and the youtube video introducing the GWF class
""The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength..."
For a good dps GWF
Indomitable battle strike and Flourish along with battle fury and Slam as daily. Nothing has been improved..... And our dps feats were totally forgotten.
I personally rerolled a TR. I do x3 more damage easily than a same geared GWF. And i have More surviability unlike GWF who has 0 defensive spells , and their armor wont save them as they has significantly less armor than compared to a GF and 0 evasive encounters. Unlike TR who got the awesome "impossible to catch or even smoke bomb which is literally a sanctuary cloud" , and dont forget rogues can dodge while we can only sprint to our deaths. Without being biased , and having played both classes intensively , i will chose a rogue in my party without any hesitation over a GWF, because rogues with their tiny kitchen knives outshines the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sword wielder into every possible way.
I just love the way rogues can solo dps a boss while avoiding its attacks without taking a single damage or even using impossible to catch to avoid wide scale AOE and at the same time doing huge damage. A GWF will never be able to do that sadly Thats why rational people will never invite them to castle never. Just business nth personal , they are not played by bad people , they are just a bad broken class which is outshined by all others in every single aspect and have NO distinct role which makes them invaluable in a party. Unless i mean RADICAL and id say that word again RADICAL changes are done , i'd seriously warn people to avoid this class. I cried over it , i fought for it , i got all the best in game gear , including ancient mh/oh , i respecced 3 times with tokens , i read abt it , experimented abt it.... but really now i regret pouring so much AD and time resources into it. I could have invested all these building another character with a different class. I hope someday there is a justice for dps GWF.
-SAd thing my GWF is named "Justice" in game...
While I cannot talk about DPS GWF I can talk about a lot of the feats and powers they buffed/fixed are for tanking, which is what my GWF has been speced as. I played on the test realm and in castle never was able to kind of hold threat. Would of definetly held threat if I went in first and always did the pulling. Also if I did not have a DPS speced GF in there either. He kept dieing, but I did not. I held almost as much threat as him but took a ton less damage, and with the new temp HP to unstopable I was able to not stay alive with very little potion chugging.
The real issue I had with it was that I only can have 4 extra aggro abilities, one being sure strike which I did not spec for because why would I want a single target extra aggro ability and waste 5 paragon feats on it. I just think that the extra aggro against marked targets that GF get GWF should also get. But it should only be if it is their mark on them. Or the feat that increases damage to marked targets also increase threat generated to them. Actually give them a consistent way to generate threat. Not 100% more threat from 10% of your power as damage. Which you power is not going to be to high anyway because as a tank you need defensive stats.
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djleberMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This "huge" patch is far far far away from saving dps GWF.
So far i haven't seen any offensive GWF FEATS getting improves (only encounters cooldown reduced)
And the worst thing is that we destroyer GWF we DON"T use the encounters u buffed.
are u kidding me? destroyers do use the skills, wicked strike, roar and come and get it are of my main skills. the cooldowns on skills being reduced help alot too. cooldowns reduced alone increases dps of a destroyer gwf. perhaps ur build is wrong mate but from this all i see is plus+++++++. also my pvp build relies on ALOT of what has been had their cooldowns reduced and damage improved.
Heres a list for you of all the improvements that increase my damage in pvp and pve aoe/single target builds
Come and Get It: The cooldown of this power has been decreased.
Restoring Strike: The cooldown of this power has been decreased
Roar: The cooldown of this power has been decreased.
Sure Strike: The damage from this power has been increased.
Takedown: The cooldown of this power has been decreased.
Takedown: The range of this power has been increased.
Takedown: The user of this power now shifts forward slightly when attacking.
Unstoppable: This power now grants temporary health based on how much Determination the player had when activating it.
Unstoppable: This power no longer removes certain Movement buffs.
Wicked Strike: The damage from this power has been increased.
Say what you will but those buffs are awesome to me
I'll say as a cleric some of this nerfs are going to make our job alot harder then it already is, i understand the stacking of shields removed. But why nerf the damage reduction and heals we do not have that many direct aoe heals so if there are 3 members dropping health fast how are we supposed to save all of them?
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gdante7111111Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 227Arc User
edited June 2013
I will not be here for much longer if they don't really make it balanced, this so called balance coming is not a balance. They just slapped a sticker and sent it, they did not take the time (long time) to actually see if what they did was right. Gf and gwf are still slow and do little damage, how is that equal to the others ?. That's a balance nope, 95 to 99% of the skills don't do what they are supposed to do. Or don't do everything that it is supposed to do, they are broken. They rushed it and called it a day. One of the problem is gf and gwf cant dodge, there shouldn't be this different thing for everyone. It should be dodge for everyone like in raiderz, raiderz its more balanced then this. Everyone can dodge and it makes it even, raiderz is not fully balanced but compared to this. Raiderz is more balanced, out of 5 stars nw is 3.
P.S I am waiting for the new ones to come out, and if those are garbage I will stay with nw. Lots of new ones are coming soon, waiting for 2 or 3.
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djleberMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
One of the problem is gf and gwf cant dodge, there shouldn't be this different thing for everyone. It should be dodge for everyone like in raiderz, raiderz its more balanced then this. Everyone can dodge and it makes it even, raiderz is not fully balanced but compared to this. Raiderz is more balanced, out of 5 stars nw is 3.
While i agree gwf should be able to dodge in raiderz doesnt the tank have a block instead? also raiderz isnt made by cryptic just both games are published by the same company. raiderz shouldnt affect NW at all
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superkheMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I fully support the changes, just need to fix the bugs that might appear :x
What developers are doing with DC is killing youre casual player base, static groups will find ways around it but not everyone can find a good group, myself included. Im an unreliable player that may end up not playing for weeks, thats why i do pugs. I was already penalised for that. I was forced to farm a lot to be able to replenish gold i spend on kits and potions. Why do developers feel the need to punish people like me even more?
Do not get me wrong stacking AS needed to go. I was not exploiting it much since i was mostly the single cleric in pugs and even with "over powered" as some people imply shield (which it never was, you cant stay in it and face tank everything, you will be killed if you try that) groups still got wiped and giving up more times then i can count. Now with all the incoming nerfs with Cleanse (why?! It was one of few actually useful feats we had before choosing paragon path.) i might as well give up on the class, because i know i wont be able to compensate for all the nerfs AS got with my other skills.
Bastion of health would be great, if it healed a lot even with outrageous cool down we have, since it could be rotated with AS, but as it stands FFs will be better and it will put far more stress one me to place it correctly, not to mention be able to keep two pips at all time to cast in divine mode.
In PvP i might as well afk in camp fire, or i am afraid people will kick me on sight now. For those saying clerics can go DPS rote, yes they can, but do not delude youre self that they will contribute a significant amount to team, if people can chose between TR, CW or GWF and a DC they will never pick DC over them. If i wanted to DPS i would have rolled one of those classes, much as probably all clerics - i wanted to heal. Cleric reminds me of reverted GF pre patch now - cant do its role.
This is a semi action MMO, meaning you cant dodge everything, plus issues with high ping and pure physical distance between server. AS allowed to ignore some of those issues, but if the patch goes life as it is - it will end up taking its toll on player base.
While i agree gwf should be able to dodge in raiderz doesnt the tank have a block instead? also raiderz isnt made by cryptic just both games are published by the same company. raiderz shouldnt affect NW at all
RaiderZ is not as complex to build your char as this game but they DID do the class balance and gameplay/PVP right. Everyone can dodge, everyone can block, there are no target limits for your skills... the list goes on.
All the classes have their roles, and anyone can multiclass to whatever you want after level 10. It really is a very neat system they devised. Cryptic could take a few lessons from Maiet (RaiderZ devs) about how to make class balance work. I'd still be playing RaiderZ if I wasn't burned out on it from playing so much. lol
i just want one thing to be taken into consideration "if you try to please everyone you please no one" i have seen many complainers going on about op this or that but the majority of it has been play style and not using a classes strengths and finding and exploiting the other classes weaknesses which is fair game and is about skill i dearly hope there is some skill left after all these changes i would of preferred a buff for the fighters to bring them up to par but beggars cant be choosers
My main is a TR. Shocking Execution nerf so what I never use it and now never will. TR bleed was our best source of damage in PvE and I guess until this goes live I don't know how bad this is going to hurt. The changes you did do nothing to me in PvP. It is very rare that I get to use Deadly momentum to it's full effect in PvP. If I want to one shot someone I don't need shocking execution to do it because I can easily do it with lashing and sometimes impact shot. Only newb rogues need shocking. Those rogues will just have to learn to play without an I win button. If you think for one moment that shocking execution is going to beat me in dps in CN just delete your character now. TR bleed didn't need to be nerf'd but what it needed was for each TR in the group to have his own stack of bleed because right now only one bleed works. I understand that Deadly momentum was broke and we shall see how it hurts us in dungeons but maybe the power boost will level that out. Boss fights can be pretty long and you just nerf the class that kills every boss in T2's. You nerf'd CW's that helped us kill bosses faster. You nerf'd clerics that keep the team alive. How about nerfing the god **** add mechanic that you use for every ****ing boss fight...really? Is that all crpytic can do is throw adds at you to make a boss fight hard? The boss fight in Frozen Heart that had a real mechanic to kill the orbs that healed him almost made me jump for joy because it wasn't an all survive the adds fight. I enjoy the game but come on make your content more of a skill game than deal with huge numbers of adds and oh by the way we are going to nerf your main dps and your support. GF's can't tank 50 adds or can they? I don't think so. GWF's with the added buff are going to melt 50 adds? I don't think so. DC's are going to be able to keep AS up with the nerf to cooldown? I don't think so. This game going to be horrible experience for new players in T2? I think so. PvP was and after thought so if any of these changes were from people qq'ing or raging because they got one shot by some newb rogue that prolly just got his *** handed to him after he used his I win button the it might be time to find a new game. Nothing good usually comes from nerf'ing what you should have done is made the mechanics of the game better. CC is stupid OP in PvP why didn't you address any of those issues? Instead you nerf a skill that maybe had a chance to one shot someone? How about being perma locked down? That's so much fun. It's not like CW's didn't have the ability to one shot someone that they could just CC to death. Not like a GF that can keep you locked down and kill you pretty fast actually. Not like a GWF can't lock you down. In fact rogues and clerics are the only classes that can't perma lock you down. Rogues don't need it. Hrmm no class needs that bull****. Tone down damage across the board for PvP. Get rid of perma CC. These are issues that every pvp in all mmo's deal with. The best fights I have in pvp are with TR's why because we get to actually fight each other it's not a perma CC fight. You need to add duels to the game. Take out almost all the redundant CC. One CC mechanic for each class. Best times in PvP are lvl's 10 to 19 so much fun. Add a command to stop earning exp. Some people like playing at certain lvl's. Stop nerfin and start fixing all the bugs and make the classes that aren't so good better why ****ing nerf?
It is my view that wizards in this game are underrated.I've been playing for a while now,all the way to lvl 60, as a CW and i'm convinced that they are lacking in both DPS and Control powers especially in PvP.This patch,will nerf CW to unplayability.Personally all i can hope for is that at some point the Devs will introduce another decent spellcasting profession,i can switch to,since i love wizard like classes.
For a free to play game though,it is quite good and enjoyable.
if you have a level 60 character go try the test preview shard then come bk and comment the nerfs are way over the top just read most of the posts here, its just GWF and possibley GF that got buffed all others got major nerfs
Astral Shield got nerfed bad, please consider keeping the uptime on astral shield like it was before these patch notes, if not, not many players will be happy with their class simply because the devoted cleric will be dead and so will everyone else in a party trying to run a castle never or a spider run. Especially if you're taking 1 of each class, which you can't do because of this patch. I suggest the Devs consider keeping the uptime on astral how it is now.
There are many threads concerning this and really, cleric will be extinct after this, it's true. Around 30 clerics I know said they are getting ready to re roll to a GWF or a TR after this patch and it's sad to see. Also when someone picks cleric, they pick it because they enjoy healing and buffing rather than a dps character or a wizard, its just their style of game play. When you take the ability away from them, because nerfing the only skill that makes clerics the class they are, is simply stupid. They wouldn't really mind if there wasn't a -40% debuff on them and pretty much zero other group heals that are actually worth using, and the other heals they have are simply weak and single target.
Not to mention that its going to be an HoT (Heal over Time) that won't crit for better heals, tested in the test server. I really hope they keep the uptime the way it should be, can't dungeon without the shield it is the ONLY thing they have atm.
Comments
I played the preview shard a bit, From rogues being almsot top of the table(in terms of kills not points) alot being the *assassination style class*( meant to kill fast and effectively, AS EXPECTED FROM SUCH CLASSES) to being at the bottom alot now with very low K : D ratios. what has been done to the rogues has made me feel like they are invalid roles. They are still good in PVE, but useless in PVP. CWs still got u CCed the whole time they kill you and still have huge damage.
Im very confused about the changes to classes, only having played a rogue, my point is biased I know. But they are no more then low HP punching bags now with no real healing or defence other then *Impossible to catch* encounter, and a couple of short duration dazes/stuns
GWFs, well im glad I found them harder to kill and evade. they needed that buff. i still became a punching bag to them even having alot of PVP experiance pre-patched preview shard. the only class in my opinion the rogue has a chance of killing in PVP other then rogues themselves.
Two CW's together can kill a class instantly with 1 encounter power. That means they can sit up on walls sending nukes at melee while they can do nothing to get away because wizards seem to have infinite range as long as they start the cast while you're relatively close. Meaning that two of them up in a unreachable spot can kill off 1 person what, every 10-14 seconds? And all the while in between those 12 seconds they can basically cc up a storm.
I know rogue's seemed too OP in PvP, but honestly they're nothing compared to how huge of a power house the CW is in PvP. Sure they're squishy, but you need to be able to hit them in order to kill them and with teleport ease like they have.. You'll wish you didn't 1v1 a CW. (Unless you're playing against someone who can't manage to dodge, which that'll bring down any class)
Hey I liked my rogue being a quick kill assassin too, but try playing a GWF or GF in the current version of the game, you'll think rogues are still super stars in testing compared to how useless they are.
So basically what you're saying is the game will be broke because TR's aren't going to always be top dps. But the game wasn't broken when the GWF was worthless to play. Also the rogue's still do wicked damage in PvP. Sounds like you're sad not to be OP anymore.
I play a DC as my primary character. I haven't hit dungeon content yet but everything I've been reading about Astral Shield's nerfing makes me nervous, particularly with the cooldown and duration. I can, and sometimes do, play without it (heck, all Clerics before 50 had to make do without it) but at end game, it would still mean two Clerics for AS uptime to be near 100%. The stacking issue was a bug and needed to go. And if the balance is for PvP? Well, guess what? I can stand in my shield and get killed like everyone else, with just ONE shield. I am not invincible in my shield. I'd like to see some adjustments made to the skill so that one could possibly have near 100% but even 80-90% uptime is better than what the test server has currently.
Onto another issue I haven't seen many post about, and while I'm not very fond of PvP, I do like to play around in it from time to time and dabble in it, and I think, with the proposed balance changes, it just got 10x worse. Botters run scripts, they can't be kicked now so if your team has bots, guess what? You're going to lose. And losing means less Glory and less XP (if you're leveling with PvP). Which also invites the jokers. Disconnects could be rampant. Someone doesn't like their team? Disconnect. Their team will be screwed for the rest of the match since, the match already started. Then you have the people who might just be doing it on purpose to make sure everyone gets less benefits, since, if a match doesn't take a certain amount of time, the rewards are lowered. It's a terrible thing, really. It sets up actual players who enjoy playing to get gimped and messed with by players who like to joke around. That's not cool. In other words, while you're punishing real players, you're also inviting unsavory players to ruin the fun for everyone too.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
I haven't really played Instigator Spec yet, but Destroyer Spec gets Determination from attacking, something I feel should be a baseline class component for GWFs, because only building it when being hit is pretty silly for a DPS class, it makes sense when we are in fact tanking, but I digress.
I mean in group content everyone but the Tank (pretty much the GF 90% of the time, or should be) should be avoiding damage as best as they can and taking as close to 0 damage as possible, basically they shouldn't be getting hit at all in a perfect world / situation.
I'm specced Sentinel myself even though my guild has two main GF tanks that do all the tanking. I like the survivability and the option to off-tank if needed, but when not off tanking / tanking it would be nice to push out some more DPS.
Every other class seems to be able to build / use their class mechanic pretty efficiently and often, except for GWFs (unless they are specced Destroyer). By default we only build Determination from being Hit and getting Killing Blows, which isn't always easy especially with CWs knocking everything around and doing crazy AoE DPS.
I feel like they should add the building Determination from Attacking to GWFs as a baseline thing and add something else useful to the Destroyer Capstone IMHO. Like make extra Determination on Crit, or whatever.
Daring Shout sucks compared to Roar for determination generation as far as I can tell from experience, and has a much longer cool down to boot. I really hope this patch brings it more on par with Roar, it in fact should generate more determination then Roar IMHO, considering Roar is a interrupt and a pushback / knockback as well, and does decent damage on top of that.
That and I feel like they need to change the way Marks work, Marks should last their ENTIRE duration (something that is abysmally short as it is), pretty dumb that they go away after the marked target hits you. Especially when you're specced as Sentinel using the Intimidation Feat which increases the threat generation of said ability, or even when you're playing Solo, because obviously if your Solo or Pulling threat with the ability the mobs are going to hit you, no brainer there.
So bottom line is I want Marks to last the entire duration (would help our dps overall and make us more helpful in groups), Daring Shout to generate more Determination / Action Points to be more on Par with Roar (and also do more damage with the Intimidation Feat because the 5% is abysmal, but it looks like they are addressing that slightly in the patch), for GWFs to build Determination by attacking at a base line level, and also Indomitable Battle Strike should give you the bonus action points and mark nearby enemies regardless of you getting the killing blow with that encounter or not.
Am I crazy, do others feel this way, would this make us OP, what do you think?
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http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?333742-Suggestions-for-Astral-Shield&p=4272352&viewfull=1#post4272352
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The change in Astral Shield duration to 10 seconds has been discussed much already, but most of the feedback has focussed on PvE.
My concern is what effect the Astral Shield change will have on PvP balance.
Clerics were middle of the road if not in the lower half of PvP as it stands now especially with the scoring system rewarding DPS (kills) and mobility (tower capture) more than buffs and heals.
Without the ability to keep Astral Shield up consistently, the cleric is pretty much toast in PvP, especially since there was no appreciable increase in damage mitigation, healing or DPS to offset the shorter Astral Shield duration. The change in healing threat generation obviously has no effect in PvP.
My recommendation:
Change the cooldown from the current 17.6 seconds to 12.6 seconds to match the decrease in in Astral shield duration. Even with my proposed decrease in cooldown, Astral Shield will be weaker than in it's current form on the live servers since clerics will have to burn more divinity to keep up a consistent shield.
Another option could be to change the astral shield from a static circle on the ground to a Sunburst heal type mechanic where all allies within a set radius around the cleric when the spell is cast receives the shield for a 10 second duration. This change would allow people to move around with the astral shield without being fixed to a spot since the buff would become a personal buff and not tied to a location on the ground. The advantage of increased moblility could offset the downside of the uptime gap. But since I'm not sure of all the consequences of the trade off, I don't recommend this change but am throwing it out there for consideration.
So far i haven't seen any offensive GWF FEATS getting improves (only encounters cooldown reduced)
And the worst thing is that we destroyer GWF we DON"T use the encounters u buffed.
Yes we were supposed to be a striker class like the rogue as i quote from neverwinter wiki and the youtube video introducing the GWF class
""The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength..."
For a good dps GWF
Indomitable battle strike and Flourish along with battle fury and Slam as daily. Nothing has been improved..... And our dps feats were totally forgotten.
I personally rerolled a TR. I do x3 more damage easily than a same geared GWF. And i have More surviability unlike GWF who has 0 defensive spells , and their armor wont save them as they has significantly less armor than compared to a GF and 0 evasive encounters. Unlike TR who got the awesome "impossible to catch or even smoke bomb which is literally a sanctuary cloud" , and dont forget rogues can dodge while we can only sprint to our deaths. Without being biased , and having played both classes intensively , i will chose a rogue in my party without any hesitation over a GWF, because rogues with their tiny kitchen knives outshines the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> sword wielder into every possible way.
I just love the way rogues can solo dps a boss while avoiding its attacks without taking a single damage or even using impossible to catch to avoid wide scale AOE and at the same time doing huge damage. A GWF will never be able to do that sadly
-SAd thing my GWF is named "Justice" in game...
Really?
you're going to nerf 75% of our damage but not fix the 50 bugs with skills/feats?
haha just put the TOPDPS/FLAVOROFTHEMONTH on another class every other patch like blizzard did
cmon guys join in on the seesaw! its so much fun!
new game.
I hope Devs will read this. Its true instead of buffing our Dps skill they buffed the unusual feats which is useless
While I cannot talk about DPS GWF I can talk about a lot of the feats and powers they buffed/fixed are for tanking, which is what my GWF has been speced as. I played on the test realm and in castle never was able to kind of hold threat. Would of definetly held threat if I went in first and always did the pulling. Also if I did not have a DPS speced GF in there either. He kept dieing, but I did not. I held almost as much threat as him but took a ton less damage, and with the new temp HP to unstopable I was able to not stay alive with very little potion chugging.
The real issue I had with it was that I only can have 4 extra aggro abilities, one being sure strike which I did not spec for because why would I want a single target extra aggro ability and waste 5 paragon feats on it. I just think that the extra aggro against marked targets that GF get GWF should also get. But it should only be if it is their mark on them. Or the feat that increases damage to marked targets also increase threat generated to them. Actually give them a consistent way to generate threat. Not 100% more threat from 10% of your power as damage. Which you power is not going to be to high anyway because as a tank you need defensive stats.
are u kidding me? destroyers do use the skills, wicked strike, roar and come and get it are of my main skills. the cooldowns on skills being reduced help alot too. cooldowns reduced alone increases dps of a destroyer gwf. perhaps ur build is wrong mate but from this all i see is plus+++++++. also my pvp build relies on ALOT of what has been had their cooldowns reduced and damage improved.
Heres a list for you of all the improvements that increase my damage in pvp and pve aoe/single target builds
Come and Get It: The cooldown of this power has been decreased.
Restoring Strike: The cooldown of this power has been decreased
Roar: The cooldown of this power has been decreased.
Sure Strike: The damage from this power has been increased.
Takedown: The cooldown of this power has been decreased.
Takedown: The range of this power has been increased.
Takedown: The user of this power now shifts forward slightly when attacking.
Unstoppable: This power now grants temporary health based on how much Determination the player had when activating it.
Unstoppable: This power no longer removes certain Movement buffs.
Wicked Strike: The damage from this power has been increased.
Say what you will but those buffs are awesome to me
However i'm not a part of PWE and can't handle any questions regarding your personal details or account.
Please respect the forum ToS and keep a nice manner towards your fellow adventurers!
| Half Elf - Cleric | Good reading for Clerics |
P.S I am waiting for the new ones to come out, and if those are garbage I will stay with nw. Lots of new ones are coming soon, waiting for 2 or 3.
While i agree gwf should be able to dodge in raiderz doesnt the tank have a block instead? also raiderz isnt made by cryptic just both games are published by the same company. raiderz shouldnt affect NW at all
I hope you will also fully enjoy the game when you won't find any cleric for dungeon.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Do not get me wrong stacking AS needed to go. I was not exploiting it much since i was mostly the single cleric in pugs and even with "over powered" as some people imply shield (which it never was, you cant stay in it and face tank everything, you will be killed if you try that) groups still got wiped and giving up more times then i can count. Now with all the incoming nerfs with Cleanse (why?! It was one of few actually useful feats we had before choosing paragon path.) i might as well give up on the class, because i know i wont be able to compensate for all the nerfs AS got with my other skills.
Bastion of health would be great, if it healed a lot even with outrageous cool down we have, since it could be rotated with AS, but as it stands FFs will be better and it will put far more stress one me to place it correctly, not to mention be able to keep two pips at all time to cast in divine mode.
In PvP i might as well afk in camp fire, or i am afraid people will kick me on sight now. For those saying clerics can go DPS rote, yes they can, but do not delude youre self that they will contribute a significant amount to team, if people can chose between TR, CW or GWF and a DC they will never pick DC over them. If i wanted to DPS i would have rolled one of those classes, much as probably all clerics - i wanted to heal. Cleric reminds me of reverted GF pre patch now - cant do its role.
This is a semi action MMO, meaning you cant dodge everything, plus issues with high ping and pure physical distance between server. AS allowed to ignore some of those issues, but if the patch goes life as it is - it will end up taking its toll on player base.
RaiderZ is not as complex to build your char as this game but they DID do the class balance and gameplay/PVP right. Everyone can dodge, everyone can block, there are no target limits for your skills... the list goes on.
All the classes have their roles, and anyone can multiclass to whatever you want after level 10. It really is a very neat system they devised. Cryptic could take a few lessons from Maiet (RaiderZ devs) about how to make class balance work. I'd still be playing RaiderZ if I wasn't burned out on it from playing so much. lol
I cant tell any changes in companions.
There are many threads concerning this and really, cleric will be extinct after this, it's true. Around 30 clerics I know said they are getting ready to re roll to a GWF or a TR after this patch and it's sad to see. Also when someone picks cleric, they pick it because they enjoy healing and buffing rather than a dps character or a wizard, its just their style of game play. When you take the ability away from them, because nerfing the only skill that makes clerics the class they are, is simply stupid. They wouldn't really mind if there wasn't a -40% debuff on them and pretty much zero other group heals that are actually worth using, and the other heals they have are simply weak and single target.
Not to mention that its going to be an HoT (Heal over Time) that won't crit for better heals, tested in the test server. I really hope they keep the uptime the way it should be, can't dungeon without the shield it is the ONLY thing they have atm.