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Player Challenge: Make the Neverwinter Chat Ban System Better.

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  • asashiroasashiro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    *Dedicated Chat Channels for Trade / LFG/GuildRecruit
    -Shard-wide just like zone, limited to whatever city/region you're in.
    =Will cut down zone spam considerably improving the current system

    *Separate /ignore and Report Spam button and remove the chat command /ignore_spammer
    -/ignore should not impede anyone else's ability to communicate to anyone other than to myself
    -/ignore_spammer should be removed from game. The ability to flag someone as spam from anywhere in game without actually seeing any text from them is too exploitable.
    =Will drastically cut down on false positives and the ability to troll using the system


    These changes alone would improve the current system immensely. But you can definitely take it further.


    *Chat Limiters
    -Few second delay between ability to send chat messages
    -(if possible limited to zone and the new dedicated chat channels for trade and lfg)
    =Cuts down on flood of spam mostly coming from RMT sites


    Possible improvements that could be added/changed in addition to the above that should be:

    *Report Spam silence changed to compounding penalties instead of flat 24hrs
    -First offense (minor) - short silence limited to the dedicated channels (can still communicate to party and guild -- and whispers if player is friended)
    -Second offense (med) - longer silence across all channels
    -Third offense (are you seriously still spamming?) - longest silence, potential action taken against account if reached multiple times
    -Penalties and offense strikes decay over period of time (day? week? something)

    *Weighted System
    -All players given a default weighting
    -Weighting increases for correct usage of Report Spam, decreases for incorrect usage
    -Once threshold is met, penalties applied
    =Similar to current system, less abuse-able, hopefully a better threshold than simply 21reports
  • s3pts3pt Member Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    As others have mentioned, as long as the power is in players hands it will, without doubt, be abused.

    Devs get paid to come up with solutions, especially solutions to problems they created, not the players.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    djarkaan wrote: »
    So sloppy dev gets paid, i come up with a better system, i get a better system in game, sloppy dev stillget paid.

    No thanks
    do your own job.
    s3pt wrote: »
    Devs get paid to come up with solutions, especially solutions to problems they created, not the players.

    Of course they do, but gaming companies are also judged by how well they listen to their playerbase.

    I am not a dev, I am an unpaid community moderator. And others in this thread get props because they cared enough to get their voices heard, regardless what they had to say. I believe as a community, we can play an instrumental role in helping Cryptic making a better game.

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  • ashensnowashensnow Member Posts: 2,215 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    walk2k wrote: »
    not. it's called community moderation and it works extremely well, ie Craigslist. sure some people get unfairly flagged but the system works 99%+ the time which is much more successful than if you left it up to moderators who would never.. never ever be able to police every zone in every game 24/7 etc..

    One customer of Cryptic should not have the power to decide how much of the service another customer can access. Any player who opts to /ignore a particular person's messages will not see them any longer. There is no need for the ignored individual to also be silenced.

    Ultimately giving 20 people (as others have suggested is the magic number) to ability to decide what others are and are not allowed to read is not community policing unless those 20 constitute a majority of the community.

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  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    s3pt wrote: »
    As others have mentioned, as long as the power is in players hands it will, without doubt, be abused.

    Devs get paid to come up with solutions, especially solutions to problems they created, not the players.
    djarkaan wrote: »
    So sloppy dev gets paid, i come up with a better system, i get a better system in game, sloppy dev stillget paid.


    No thanks
    do your own job.


    They are doing their jobs, however they're getting opinions from the community on what they want to see rather than just changing it and making things worse. What would you prefer, that they changed it in a way that made things worse, or that they took the opinions of the community into account and did it right?
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Make a new trade channel in a separate chat tab, put in a restriction that only allows a message to be sent by the user once every 20 seconds.

    In the zone chat put in a restriction that only allows the player to send one message every 10 seconds.

    While it seams fairly restrictive, it would serve the purpose you do not need to be sending a great deal of messages every minute, yet this would still allow for 3-6 messages to be sent depending on the channel. If you wish to have a conversation with one other person talk to them in tells, if you wish to have a conversation with a wider audience get in a group together and if you wish to talk to an even larger audience than a group allows for make your own chat channel that you can all join, or better yet have these conversation within your guild, in the guild chat!
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  • warfluxwarflux Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    How about thinking way outside of industry standards? Just because it's free to play doesn't mean it has to require no verification to register at all. Something like requiring that you reply to a text message to register for the game could work, then they could easily be able to track these gold bots. I know not everyone has a cell phone but they could provide many ways to register that would suffice instead such as proving you have a verified paypal account and there are other third party vendors they could use for similar verifications. This would not cost them anything.

    If they're determined to allow anyone just to register with a joeblow@freemaildomain.com email as the only requirement to get on and immediately start spamming then there is no good solution besides having a human constantly monitor it. No matter what filters they implement the gold spammers will get around it. The only other solutions would limit everyone not just the gold spammers.
  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    warflux wrote: »
    How about thinking way outside of industry standards? Just because it's free to play doesn't mean it has to require no verification to register at all. Something like requiring that you reply to a text message to register for the game could work, then they could easily be able to track these gold bots. I know not everyone has a cell phone but they could provide many ways to register that would suffice instead such as proving you have a verified paypal account and there are other third party vendors they could use for similar verifications. This would not cost them anything.

    If they're determined to allow anyone just to register with a joeblow@freemaildomain.com email as the only requirement to get on and immediately start spamming then there is no good solution besides having a human constantly monitor it. No matter what filters they implement the gold spammers will get around it. The only other solutions would limit everyone not just the gold spammers.

    The issue is that they want as low a barrier to entry as possible, as well as the fact that they'll effectively be charging for an F2P game if they require any verification beyond an email address (yes people still have pay as you go plans and I do know people who'd refuse to play if they had to use telephone verification).
  • warfluxwarflux Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    The issue is that they want as low a barrier to entry as possible, as well as the fact that they'll effectively be charging for an F2P game if they require any verification beyond an email address (yes people still have pay as you go plans and I do know people who'd refuse to play if they had to use telephone verification).

    That's fine there can be many different ways to verify other than just a text message.

    If they want the barrier that low then it's going to be rough to fix it.
  • s3pts3pt Member Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    They are doing their jobs, however they're getting opinions from the community on what they want to see rather than just changing it and making things worse. What would you prefer, that they changed it in a way that made things worse, or that they took the opinions of the community into account and did it right?

    The solution is simple, take the power for players to silence others away. There are dozens of MMOs they could look to, who's chat systems don't give players the power and license to abuse it.
  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Not an idea but an observation. does anyone consider the fact that many of the "I got chat banned" posts are actually lies to garner attention.

    I've been playing cryptic games... starting with Champions online, then Star Trek Online and now Neverwinter for over 3 years, and often chat in zone in all, and sometimes have deliberately acted like a jerk to get myself chat banned. Oddly enough even after 3+ years on the same account, I have yet to get the ban hammer. So if I can't get enough ignores in 3 years to cause a ban, what exactly are these people doing to get one?
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  • warfluxwarflux Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Neverwinter utilizes a text chat system that effectively keeps text chat spam to a virtually non-existent level.


    Either we are not playing the same game or you and I have very different definitions of "virtually non-existent".
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Member Posts: 6,694 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Of course they do, but gaming companies are also judged by how well they listen to their playerbase.

    I am not a dev, I am an unpaid community moderator. And others in this thread get props because they cared enough to get their voices heard, regardless what they had to say. I believe as a community, we can play an instrumental role in helping Cryptic making a better game.

    If they actually cared, they would have listened people who told the exactly same things over a year ago, things Cryptic is showing sudden interest at. But i guess then they didn't have the manpower or resources to deal such a thing. Or they just ignored it and told players the system is working as intended.
    The thing is, most of the NW playerbase thinks this chabanning is something new and unique here. Sorry to burst their bubble, it isn't.
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  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    chuckwolf wrote: »
    Not an idea but an observation. does anyone consider the fact that many of the "I got chat banned" posts are actually lies to garner attention.

    I've been playing cryptic games... starting with Champions online, then Star Trek Online and now Neverwinter for over 3 years, and often chat in zone in all, and sometimes have deliberately acted like a jerk to get myself chat banned. Oddly enough even after 3+ years on the same account, I have yet to get the ban hammer. So if I can't get enough ignores in 3 years to cause a ban, what exactly are these people doing to get one?

    How exactly is someone supposed to respond to this? No, that's not a fact.

    I got banned once on STO, about an hour after being a bit rude in a pug STF. It was ESD zone chat and people were discussing the military. I had just mentioned my brother had been stationed in Panama.

    Bam! 24 hour cone of shame. For 'spamming.'


    Why? Heck if I know. I guess I had gotten some 'report spam' during the STF. Maybe someone was tired of military discussion and ignored me.

    But any way you slice it, NONE OF THAT WAS SPAM.

    Which is ostensibly the point.

    (I've also been way ruder and ascerbic before and since on STO and CO without incident. Note that normally I'm pleasant, it's just Infected when captain Skittles insists on pounding the probes on the opposite side as everyone else and won't respond to hails GRAR)
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  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Oh, and the kicker was you have no way to tell people you are playing with that you went silent within the game.

    Guess that's another point for not using in-game voicechat.
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    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

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  • edited June 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • tinypyrotinypyro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 371 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    warflux wrote: »
    Either we are not playing the same game or you and I have very different definitions of "virtually non-existent".

    I believe Aandre is referring to Gold/AD selling spam adds from illicit sites. While there certainly is some present in zone chat, it happens in spurts, and is quite rare compared to most other MMOs at launch. If you would like to personally see what terrible chat spam is, go check out RaiderZ.

    1. Please implement Official LFG and Trade channels. Most if not all successful MMOs have these for a reason. That reason being that it dramaticly reduces excessive chat in any one channel. Many people are aware that we can create custom channels, and some of us are aware that some have already been created. But short of a chat channel Messiah leading the masses to the promise land, this will never work. It's a novel idea, but the reality is that people want to do what they are accustomed to doing: Opening chat options and "checking" LFG and Trade.

    2. The ignore feature should be account wide, and should only apply your account and the account being ignored. There should be a seperate feature for report as spam, and all spam reported should go into a log that is reviewed by a GM and acted upon via there discretion.

    3. Players should not have any control over another person or another account being banned or silenced globally. This can and will be abused.
  • athanshadowathanshadow Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    i agree with ignore and spam should be separate for silence people.i ignore usually people who put wtb or wts in zone chat too much.and only use spam report for gold and ad pushing websites.

    i don't know how long the black list can be,but i'm ok with just having right click option to ignore people,and removing the silence feature if it bothers people so much.
  • forutnefireforutnefire Member Posts: 468 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Flare from Champions Online here. Check my signature for 2 YEARS worth of discussion about this topic.

    EDIT: NW forums do not allow my signature. Go figure. Here's the link to the topic notifying me of this topic on these forums. The 37 links to topics amassed over 2 years of game play fighting this system. Some are rants, some are filled with pages of discussion on how to fix the system.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Member Posts: 2,197 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yeah, we folks over at Champions Online have been spending the last two years telling you exactly what's wrong with the system and have even given you ideas on how to improve it (DERP DERP, IGNORES SHOULDN'T COUNT TOWARDS BAN POINTS DUH), and all we got were silence and asinine responses about how it's "working as intended". Now you guys are taking action because Oh god no, you can't afford to let it fester in your beloved new MMO.

    Fortunately for you, you have generous players to do your work for you in figuring out what the best solution is to "improve" it.

    By the way, the poster before me? Several times he has made the effort to engage that game's community in fun costume contest activities, and got rewarded for it by getting a 24-hour silence during different multiple periods in time.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    1. Limit zone chat to 1 message every 5-10 seconds.

    2. Make /report_spam only silence people in zone chat.

    3. Have /ignore no longer silence people, (or have it only silence people in zone chat).

    4. Institute official trade, lfg, and guild recruitment channels. It is imperative that new and existing players are made aware of these channels and encouraged to use them.

    5. Prohibit "useless items" from being sold on the AH - some people were duped by the "bag of holes" or w/e it's called, and this is wrong.

    6. Consider making astral diamonds account wide - this would eliminate people trying to play the AH to transfer them.

    7. Provide some way of transferring account-bound items - perhaps implement something like champions online's hideouts or a shared account bank, (like Xunlai storage in Guild Wars).

    8. Lastly - there needs to be some sort of repercussions for those that abuse the report spam feature to silence others - a warning, followed by temp, then finally permanent bans...

    9. Add an option to only be able to receive private messages from people on your friends list or guild.
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  • bluedarkybluedarky Member Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bioshrike wrote: »
    1. Limit zone chat to 1 message every 5-10 seconds.

    2. Make /report_spam only silence people in zone chat.

    3. Have /ignore no longer silence people, (or have it only silence people in zone chat).

    4. Institute official trade, lfg, and guild recruitment channels. It is imperative that new and existing players are made aware of these channels and encouraged to use them.

    5. Prohibit "useless items" from being sold on the AH - some people were duped by the "bag of holes" or w/e it's called, and this is wrong.

    6. Consider making astral diamonds account wide - this would eliminate people trying to play the AH to transfer them.

    7. Provide some way of transferring account-bound items - perhaps implement something like champions online's hideouts or a shared account bank, (like Xunlai storage in Guild Wars).

    8. Lastly - there needs to be some sort of repercussions for those that abuse the report spam feature to silence others - a warning, followed by temp, then finally permanent bans...

    9. Add an option to only be able to receive private messages from people on your friends list or guild.

    You do realise that this thread is only for the report spam feature right?
  • clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    verdonix1 wrote: »


    **EDIT** Clear and concise rules as to what is and what is not considered spam, and what is and what is not allowed in each chat area..... because, TBH, people are complaining about "WTS/WTB" "spam" in zone chat being against the rules, and I have never seen that regulation, I do not think it exists..... So a clearly written set of chat area, channel specific rules would be nice.

    See my signature for a link stating the intended use of the report spam feature as stated by an admin. Any other use is griefing, and abusing the feature. So said an admin.

    I reiterate with great conviction that any inclusion of a muting function by players to players will end up being abused.
    I further stipulate that those arguing so vehemently for this feature are the very ones that will end up abusing it and griefing others. For all I know, they may have already. But, the opposite is also true, which is why I merely theorize and not accuse.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Member Posts: 2,197 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bluedarky wrote: »
    You do realise that this thread is only for the report spam feature right?

    Those things mentioned by bioshrike are related to spam and are ideas that seem to make it less feasible to perform the spam ads in the first place.
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    flappyj wrote: »
    Stuffs

    Did we just get spammed by a spammer in the how to fix the spam feature thread?!
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Those things mentioned by bioshrike are related to spam and are ideas that seem to make it less feasible to perform the spam ads in the first place.

    No teenage robot avatar? :o

    ...and thanks for the support! :cool:
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  • shieldtowershieldtower Member Posts: 1,230 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Those things mentioned by bioshrike are related to spam and are ideas that seem to make it less feasible to perform the spam ads in the first place.

    I don't see how points 5-7 are in any way relevant to the topic. Even if people are tired of seeing "how do I transfer XX between characters" type question being asked in zone chat it still doesn't constitute spam.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Member Posts: 2,197 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bioshrike wrote: »
    No teenage robot avatar? :o

    ...and thanks for the support! :cool:

    Fixed. Even as bitter as I sound...here's hoping for a change.
    I don't see how points 5-7 are in any way relevant to the topic. Even if people are tired of seeing "how do I transfer XX between characters" type question being asked in zone chat it still doesn't constitute spam.

    Fair enough. The majority of those things apply then.
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,257 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Oh look it's this thread. Maybe something will actually come out of it this time? I won't hold my breath.

    Anyways, I'm from over on the STO side and I'll join in with the CO peeps saying how this has been a problem for literally years with nothing from Cryptic except "Working as intended." It has been abused time and time again. Since the CO peeps are throwing in links to the threads on their forum about how long this junk has been here, I'll share ours with y'all.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=387101

    That's just the most recent one as well as where all the individual threads get merged into.

    Anyways as far as how to change it? Don't change it, just remove it. That's it.

    Finally, a parting message to the CO crowd:

    I really, truly hope your game gets the attention it so badly deserves. It's a fun game and I hate seeing it being neglected the way it has been. No sarcasm, all heart.

    <3
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  • teykosteykos Member Posts: 58
    edited June 2013
    - Any sort of ban on /say and /zone NEEDS to include /tell as well. RMT spammers will start tell bombing if they can't use any other way of public advertisement.
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