Devs get paid to come up with solutions, especially solutions to problems they created, not the players.
Of course they do, but gaming companies are also judged by how well they listen to their playerbase.
I am not a dev, I am an unpaid community moderator. And others in this thread get props because they cared enough to get their voices heard, regardless what they had to say. I believe as a community, we can play an instrumental role in helping Cryptic making a better game.
not. it's called community moderation and it works extremely well, ie Craigslist. sure some people get unfairly flagged but the system works 99%+ the time which is much more successful than if you left it up to moderators who would never.. never ever be able to police every zone in every game 24/7 etc..
One customer of Cryptic should not have the power to decide how much of the service another customer can access. Any player who opts to /ignore a particular person's messages will not see them any longer. There is no need for the ignored individual to also be silenced.
Ultimately giving 20 people (as others have suggested is the magic number) to ability to decide what others are and are not allowed to read is not community policing unless those 20 constitute a majority of the community.
So sloppy dev gets paid, i come up with a better system, i get a better system in game, sloppy dev stillget paid.
No thanks
do your own job.
They are doing their jobs, however they're getting opinions from the community on what they want to see rather than just changing it and making things worse. What would you prefer, that they changed it in a way that made things worse, or that they took the opinions of the community into account and did it right?
0
mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
Make a new trade channel in a separate chat tab, put in a restriction that only allows a message to be sent by the user once every 20 seconds.
In the zone chat put in a restriction that only allows the player to send one message every 10 seconds.
While it seams fairly restrictive, it would serve the purpose you do not need to be sending a great deal of messages every minute, yet this would still allow for 3-6 messages to be sent depending on the channel. If you wish to have a conversation with one other person talk to them in tells, if you wish to have a conversation with a wider audience get in a group together and if you wish to talk to an even larger audience than a group allows for make your own chat channel that you can all join, or better yet have these conversation within your guild, in the guild chat!
warfluxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
How about thinking way outside of industry standards? Just because it's free to play doesn't mean it has to require no verification to register at all. Something like requiring that you reply to a text message to register for the game could work, then they could easily be able to track these gold bots. I know not everyone has a cell phone but they could provide many ways to register that would suffice instead such as proving you have a verified paypal account and there are other third party vendors they could use for similar verifications. This would not cost them anything.
If they're determined to allow anyone just to register with a joeblow@freemaildomain.com email as the only requirement to get on and immediately start spamming then there is no good solution besides having a human constantly monitor it. No matter what filters they implement the gold spammers will get around it. The only other solutions would limit everyone not just the gold spammers.
How about thinking way outside of industry standards? Just because it's free to play doesn't mean it has to require no verification to register at all. Something like requiring that you reply to a text message to register for the game could work, then they could easily be able to track these gold bots. I know not everyone has a cell phone but they could provide many ways to register that would suffice instead such as proving you have a verified paypal account and there are other third party vendors they could use for similar verifications. This would not cost them anything.
If they're determined to allow anyone just to register with a joeblow@freemaildomain.com email as the only requirement to get on and immediately start spamming then there is no good solution besides having a human constantly monitor it. No matter what filters they implement the gold spammers will get around it. The only other solutions would limit everyone not just the gold spammers.
The issue is that they want as low a barrier to entry as possible, as well as the fact that they'll effectively be charging for an F2P game if they require any verification beyond an email address (yes people still have pay as you go plans and I do know people who'd refuse to play if they had to use telephone verification).
0
warfluxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The issue is that they want as low a barrier to entry as possible, as well as the fact that they'll effectively be charging for an F2P game if they require any verification beyond an email address (yes people still have pay as you go plans and I do know people who'd refuse to play if they had to use telephone verification).
That's fine there can be many different ways to verify other than just a text message.
If they want the barrier that low then it's going to be rough to fix it.
They are doing their jobs, however they're getting opinions from the community on what they want to see rather than just changing it and making things worse. What would you prefer, that they changed it in a way that made things worse, or that they took the opinions of the community into account and did it right?
The solution is simple, take the power for players to silence others away. There are dozens of MMOs they could look to, who's chat systems don't give players the power and license to abuse it.
Not an idea but an observation. does anyone consider the fact that many of the "I got chat banned" posts are actually lies to garner attention.
I've been playing cryptic games... starting with Champions online, then Star Trek Online and now Neverwinter for over 3 years, and often chat in zone in all, and sometimes have deliberately acted like a jerk to get myself chat banned. Oddly enough even after 3+ years on the same account, I have yet to get the ban hammer. So if I can't get enough ignores in 3 years to cause a ban, what exactly are these people doing to get one?
Of course they do, but gaming companies are also judged by how well they listen to their playerbase.
I am not a dev, I am an unpaid community moderator. And others in this thread get props because they cared enough to get their voices heard, regardless what they had to say. I believe as a community, we can play an instrumental role in helping Cryptic making a better game.
If they actually cared, they would have listened people who told the exactly same things over a year ago, things Cryptic is showing sudden interest at. But i guess then they didn't have the manpower or resources to deal such a thing. Or they just ignored it and told players the system is working as intended.
The thing is, most of the NW playerbase thinks this chabanning is something new and unique here. Sorry to burst their bubble, it isn't.
Not an idea but an observation. does anyone consider the fact that many of the "I got chat banned" posts are actually lies to garner attention.
I've been playing cryptic games... starting with Champions online, then Star Trek Online and now Neverwinter for over 3 years, and often chat in zone in all, and sometimes have deliberately acted like a jerk to get myself chat banned. Oddly enough even after 3+ years on the same account, I have yet to get the ban hammer. So if I can't get enough ignores in 3 years to cause a ban, what exactly are these people doing to get one?
How exactly is someone supposed to respond to this? No, that's not a fact.
I got banned once on STO, about an hour after being a bit rude in a pug STF. It was ESD zone chat and people were discussing the military. I had just mentioned my brother had been stationed in Panama.
Bam! 24 hour cone of shame. For 'spamming.'
Why? Heck if I know. I guess I had gotten some 'report spam' during the STF. Maybe someone was tired of military discussion and ignored me.
But any way you slice it, NONE OF THAT WAS SPAM.
Which is ostensibly the point.
(I've also been way ruder and ascerbic before and since on STO and CO without incident. Note that normally I'm pleasant, it's just Infected when captain Skittles insists on pounding the probes on the opposite side as everyone else and won't respond to hails GRAR)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Either we are not playing the same game or you and I have very different definitions of "virtually non-existent".
I believe Aandre is referring to Gold/AD selling spam adds from illicit sites. While there certainly is some present in zone chat, it happens in spurts, and is quite rare compared to most other MMOs at launch. If you would like to personally see what terrible chat spam is, go check out RaiderZ.
1. Please implement Official LFG and Trade channels. Most if not all successful MMOs have these for a reason. That reason being that it dramaticly reduces excessive chat in any one channel. Many people are aware that we can create custom channels, and some of us are aware that some have already been created. But short of a chat channel Messiah leading the masses to the promise land, this will never work. It's a novel idea, but the reality is that people want to do what they are accustomed to doing: Opening chat options and "checking" LFG and Trade.
2. The ignore feature should be account wide, and should only apply your account and the account being ignored. There should be a seperate feature for report as spam, and all spam reported should go into a log that is reviewed by a GM and acted upon via there discretion.
3. Players should not have any control over another person or another account being banned or silenced globally. This can and will be abused.
i agree with ignore and spam should be separate for silence people.i ignore usually people who put wtb or wts in zone chat too much.and only use spam report for gold and ad pushing websites.
i don't know how long the black list can be,but i'm ok with just having right click option to ignore people,and removing the silence feature if it bothers people so much.
Flare from Champions Online here. Check my signature for 2 YEARS worth of discussion about this topic.
EDIT: NW forums do not allow my signature. Go figure. Here's the link to the topic notifying me of this topic on these forums. The 37 links to topics amassed over 2 years of game play fighting this system. Some are rants, some are filled with pages of discussion on how to fix the system.
Yeah, we folks over at Champions Online have been spending the last two years telling you exactly what's wrong with the system and have even given you ideas on how to improve it (DERP DERP, IGNORES SHOULDN'T COUNT TOWARDS BAN POINTS DUH), and all we got were silence and asinine responses about how it's "working as intended". Now you guys are taking action because Oh god no, you can't afford to let it fester in your beloved new MMO.
Fortunately for you, you have generous players to do your work for you in figuring out what the best solution is to "improve" it.
By the way, the poster before me? Several times he has made the effort to engage that game's community in fun costume contest activities, and got rewarded for it by getting a 24-hour silence during different multiple periods in time.
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
1. Limit zone chat to 1 message every 5-10 seconds.
2. Make /report_spam only silence people in zone chat.
3. Have /ignore no longer silence people, (or have it only silence people in zone chat).
4. Institute official trade, lfg, and guild recruitment channels. It is imperative that new and existing players are made aware of these channels and encouraged to use them.
5. Prohibit "useless items" from being sold on the AH - some people were duped by the "bag of holes" or w/e it's called, and this is wrong.
6. Consider making astral diamonds account wide - this would eliminate people trying to play the AH to transfer them.
7. Provide some way of transferring account-bound items - perhaps implement something like champions online's hideouts or a shared account bank, (like Xunlai storage in Guild Wars).
8. Lastly - there needs to be some sort of repercussions for those that abuse the report spam feature to silence others - a warning, followed by temp, then finally permanent bans...
9. Add an option to only be able to receive private messages from people on your friends list or guild.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
1. Limit zone chat to 1 message every 5-10 seconds.
2. Make /report_spam only silence people in zone chat.
3. Have /ignore no longer silence people, (or have it only silence people in zone chat).
4. Institute official trade, lfg, and guild recruitment channels. It is imperative that new and existing players are made aware of these channels and encouraged to use them.
5. Prohibit "useless items" from being sold on the AH - some people were duped by the "bag of holes" or w/e it's called, and this is wrong.
6. Consider making astral diamonds account wide - this would eliminate people trying to play the AH to transfer them.
7. Provide some way of transferring account-bound items - perhaps implement something like champions online's hideouts or a shared account bank, (like Xunlai storage in Guild Wars).
8. Lastly - there needs to be some sort of repercussions for those that abuse the report spam feature to silence others - a warning, followed by temp, then finally permanent bans...
9. Add an option to only be able to receive private messages from people on your friends list or guild.
You do realise that this thread is only for the report spam feature right?
**EDIT** Clear and concise rules as to what is and what is not considered spam, and what is and what is not allowed in each chat area..... because, TBH, people are complaining about "WTS/WTB" "spam" in zone chat being against the rules, and I have never seen that regulation, I do not think it exists..... So a clearly written set of chat area, channel specific rules would be nice.
See my signature for a link stating the intended use of the report spam feature as stated by an admin. Any other use is griefing, and abusing the feature. So said an admin.
I reiterate with great conviction that any inclusion of a muting function by players to players will end up being abused.
I further stipulate that those arguing so vehemently for this feature are the very ones that will end up abusing it and griefing others. For all I know, they may have already. But, the opposite is also true, which is why I merely theorize and not accuse.
Those things mentioned by bioshrike are related to spam and are ideas that seem to make it less feasible to perform the spam ads in the first place.
No teenage robot avatar?
...and thanks for the support! :cool:
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Those things mentioned by bioshrike are related to spam and are ideas that seem to make it less feasible to perform the spam ads in the first place.
I don't see how points 5-7 are in any way relevant to the topic. Even if people are tired of seeing "how do I transfer XX between characters" type question being asked in zone chat it still doesn't constitute spam.
I don't see how points 5-7 are in any way relevant to the topic. Even if people are tired of seeing "how do I transfer XX between characters" type question being asked in zone chat it still doesn't constitute spam.
Fair enough. The majority of those things apply then.
Oh look it's this thread. Maybe something will actually come out of it this time? I won't hold my breath.
Anyways, I'm from over on the STO side and I'll join in with the CO peeps saying how this has been a problem for literally years with nothing from Cryptic except "Working as intended." It has been abused time and time again. Since the CO peeps are throwing in links to the threads on their forum about how long this junk has been here, I'll share ours with y'all.
That's just the most recent one as well as where all the individual threads get merged into.
Anyways as far as how to change it? Don't change it, just remove it. That's it.
Finally, a parting message to the CO crowd:
I really, truly hope your game gets the attention it so badly deserves. It's a fun game and I hate seeing it being neglected the way it has been. No sarcasm, all heart.
- Any sort of ban on /say and /zone NEEDS to include /tell as well. RMT spammers will start tell bombing if they can't use any other way of public advertisement.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
- Any sort of ban on /say and /zone NEEDS to include /tell as well. RMT spammers will start tell bombing if they can't use any other way of public advertisement.
Or allow players to toggle on an option that says "ignore private messages, guild, and team invites from people not on your friends list".
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Comments
Devs get paid to come up with solutions, especially solutions to problems they created, not the players.
Of course they do, but gaming companies are also judged by how well they listen to their playerbase.
I am not a dev, I am an unpaid community moderator. And others in this thread get props because they cared enough to get their voices heard, regardless what they had to say. I believe as a community, we can play an instrumental role in helping Cryptic making a better game.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
One customer of Cryptic should not have the power to decide how much of the service another customer can access. Any player who opts to /ignore a particular person's messages will not see them any longer. There is no need for the ignored individual to also be silenced.
Ultimately giving 20 people (as others have suggested is the magic number) to ability to decide what others are and are not allowed to read is not community policing unless those 20 constitute a majority of the community.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
They are doing their jobs, however they're getting opinions from the community on what they want to see rather than just changing it and making things worse. What would you prefer, that they changed it in a way that made things worse, or that they took the opinions of the community into account and did it right?
In the zone chat put in a restriction that only allows the player to send one message every 10 seconds.
While it seams fairly restrictive, it would serve the purpose you do not need to be sending a great deal of messages every minute, yet this would still allow for 3-6 messages to be sent depending on the channel. If you wish to have a conversation with one other person talk to them in tells, if you wish to have a conversation with a wider audience get in a group together and if you wish to talk to an even larger audience than a group allows for make your own chat channel that you can all join, or better yet have these conversation within your guild, in the guild chat!
If they're determined to allow anyone just to register with a joeblow@freemaildomain.com email as the only requirement to get on and immediately start spamming then there is no good solution besides having a human constantly monitor it. No matter what filters they implement the gold spammers will get around it. The only other solutions would limit everyone not just the gold spammers.
The issue is that they want as low a barrier to entry as possible, as well as the fact that they'll effectively be charging for an F2P game if they require any verification beyond an email address (yes people still have pay as you go plans and I do know people who'd refuse to play if they had to use telephone verification).
That's fine there can be many different ways to verify other than just a text message.
If they want the barrier that low then it's going to be rough to fix it.
The solution is simple, take the power for players to silence others away. There are dozens of MMOs they could look to, who's chat systems don't give players the power and license to abuse it.
I've been playing cryptic games... starting with Champions online, then Star Trek Online and now Neverwinter for over 3 years, and often chat in zone in all, and sometimes have deliberately acted like a jerk to get myself chat banned. Oddly enough even after 3+ years on the same account, I have yet to get the ban hammer. So if I can't get enough ignores in 3 years to cause a ban, what exactly are these people doing to get one?
Either we are not playing the same game or you and I have very different definitions of "virtually non-existent".
If they actually cared, they would have listened people who told the exactly same things over a year ago, things Cryptic is showing sudden interest at. But i guess then they didn't have the manpower or resources to deal such a thing. Or they just ignored it and told players the system is working as intended.
The thing is, most of the NW playerbase thinks this chabanning is something new and unique here. Sorry to burst their bubble, it isn't.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
How exactly is someone supposed to respond to this? No, that's not a fact.
I got banned once on STO, about an hour after being a bit rude in a pug STF. It was ESD zone chat and people were discussing the military. I had just mentioned my brother had been stationed in Panama.
Bam! 24 hour cone of shame. For 'spamming.'
Why? Heck if I know. I guess I had gotten some 'report spam' during the STF. Maybe someone was tired of military discussion and ignored me.
But any way you slice it, NONE OF THAT WAS SPAM.
Which is ostensibly the point.
(I've also been way ruder and ascerbic before and since on STO and CO without incident. Note that normally I'm pleasant, it's just Infected when captain Skittles insists on pounding the probes on the opposite side as everyone else and won't respond to hails GRAR)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Guess that's another point for not using in-game voicechat.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I believe Aandre is referring to Gold/AD selling spam adds from illicit sites. While there certainly is some present in zone chat, it happens in spurts, and is quite rare compared to most other MMOs at launch. If you would like to personally see what terrible chat spam is, go check out RaiderZ.
1. Please implement Official LFG and Trade channels. Most if not all successful MMOs have these for a reason. That reason being that it dramaticly reduces excessive chat in any one channel. Many people are aware that we can create custom channels, and some of us are aware that some have already been created. But short of a chat channel Messiah leading the masses to the promise land, this will never work. It's a novel idea, but the reality is that people want to do what they are accustomed to doing: Opening chat options and "checking" LFG and Trade.
2. The ignore feature should be account wide, and should only apply your account and the account being ignored. There should be a seperate feature for report as spam, and all spam reported should go into a log that is reviewed by a GM and acted upon via there discretion.
3. Players should not have any control over another person or another account being banned or silenced globally. This can and will be abused.
i don't know how long the black list can be,but i'm ok with just having right click option to ignore people,and removing the silence feature if it bothers people so much.
EDIT: NW forums do not allow my signature. Go figure. Here's the link to the topic notifying me of this topic on these forums. The 37 links to topics amassed over 2 years of game play fighting this system. Some are rants, some are filled with pages of discussion on how to fix the system.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by @Aleatha1011
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
Fortunately for you, you have generous players to do your work for you in figuring out what the best solution is to "improve" it.
By the way, the poster before me? Several times he has made the effort to engage that game's community in fun costume contest activities, and got rewarded for it by getting a 24-hour silence during different multiple periods in time.
2. Make /report_spam only silence people in zone chat.
3. Have /ignore no longer silence people, (or have it only silence people in zone chat).
4. Institute official trade, lfg, and guild recruitment channels. It is imperative that new and existing players are made aware of these channels and encouraged to use them.
5. Prohibit "useless items" from being sold on the AH - some people were duped by the "bag of holes" or w/e it's called, and this is wrong.
6. Consider making astral diamonds account wide - this would eliminate people trying to play the AH to transfer them.
7. Provide some way of transferring account-bound items - perhaps implement something like champions online's hideouts or a shared account bank, (like Xunlai storage in Guild Wars).
8. Lastly - there needs to be some sort of repercussions for those that abuse the report spam feature to silence others - a warning, followed by temp, then finally permanent bans...
9. Add an option to only be able to receive private messages from people on your friends list or guild.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
You do realise that this thread is only for the report spam feature right?
See my signature for a link stating the intended use of the report spam feature as stated by an admin. Any other use is griefing, and abusing the feature. So said an admin.
I reiterate with great conviction that any inclusion of a muting function by players to players will end up being abused.
I further stipulate that those arguing so vehemently for this feature are the very ones that will end up abusing it and griefing others. For all I know, they may have already. But, the opposite is also true, which is why I merely theorize and not accuse.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Those things mentioned by bioshrike are related to spam and are ideas that seem to make it less feasible to perform the spam ads in the first place.
Did we just get spammed by a spammer in the how to fix the spam feature thread?!
No teenage robot avatar?
...and thanks for the support! :cool:
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don't see how points 5-7 are in any way relevant to the topic. Even if people are tired of seeing "how do I transfer XX between characters" type question being asked in zone chat it still doesn't constitute spam.
Fixed. Even as bitter as I sound...here's hoping for a change.
Fair enough. The majority of those things apply then.
Anyways, I'm from over on the STO side and I'll join in with the CO peeps saying how this has been a problem for literally years with nothing from Cryptic except "Working as intended." It has been abused time and time again. Since the CO peeps are throwing in links to the threads on their forum about how long this junk has been here, I'll share ours with y'all.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=387101
That's just the most recent one as well as where all the individual threads get merged into.
Anyways as far as how to change it? Don't change it, just remove it. That's it.
Finally, a parting message to the CO crowd:
I really, truly hope your game gets the attention it so badly deserves. It's a fun game and I hate seeing it being neglected the way it has been. No sarcasm, all heart.
Or allow players to toggle on an option that says "ignore private messages, guild, and team invites from people not on your friends list".
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I was referring to Gold and AD selling spam ads. And yes, we are playing the same game
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!