The exact same thing happened with Warhammer Online and Star Wars Old Republic. They were released way too early. The games were incomplete, missing content (classes, dungeons, features, etc...), major class imbalance, etc...
Both games, which had major potential flopped...
NWN seems to be heading in that direction as well. They tried to guise it as an open beta, but its obvious that investors were tired of waiting for the profits to trickle in.
Now we are left with a game that feels like it could have been great, but because of the player frustration of dealing with tons of issues that border on game breaking and a lack of transparency with the Devs, the player base seems like it is starting to flee.
When are investors going to learn? Since the game is technically "Beta" (yeah ok), why can't the devs be more transparent. We are not asking for them to constantly check in with us, we just want acknowledgements or verification in regards bugs or game design and whether the game is supposed to be this way.
I think for me, my biggest concern is feeling like the investors pushed this out so players would be lured into spending money at the cash shop without letting us know the game is almost unplayable.
I feel like i was duped...
At least with a monthly sub fee I could simply cancel. With the Zen shop I bought a lot of stuff and realize only too late that this game is frustrating to play beyond compare.
I think that they should not be taking money while the game is in the beta stage, but seriously...spending upwards of $200 on a game that is still in development? I can't say I feel sorry for those people.
I wouldn't mind spending the money, but I will wait until the game is out of the beta stage to see if I like the direction it is moving in at that time.
Come on...Do you REALLY think this game is "almost unplayable"!? If so I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. While I agree with your general premise, I don't think it applies to this game as much as you do. Bad launches of online games has become the norm (there are obviously many more examples than the ones you gave)...this is one of the better ones, "beta" or not.
If we REALLY take things seriously, its not developers releasing games, its producers and investors. They don't want to wait for the moniez to start flowing so they push developers ionto the deadlines they can't achieve. THIS is what really happened to warhammer.
But Neverwinter being free to play is a whole another story, they can releasy early, call it open beta and continue working on it, its not like you HAVE to pay subscription or buy the game to play it. Only founders have some right to complain, but then again, they didn't bought the game, they gave money to support development and got some exclusive bonuses for them.
Also, this again being a F2P game, what stops you from simply taking a break and checking back in some time to see the changes? It not like it will cost you anything.
I think that they should not be taking money while the game is in the beta stage, but seriously...spending upwards of $200 on a game that is still in development? I can't say I feel sorry for those people.
I wouldn't mind spending the money, but I will wait until the game is out of the beta stage to see if I like the direction it is moving in at that time.
Seriously, if you put $200 into a game in beta, and then you find yourself regretting it....please say wetawded.
The exact same thing happened with Warhammer Online and Star Wars Old Republic. They were released way too early. The games were incomplete, missing content (classes, dungeons, features, etc...), major class imbalance, etc...
Both games, which had major potential flopped...
NWN seems to be heading in that direction as well. They tried to guise it as an open beta, but its obvious that investors were tired of waiting for the profits to trickle in.
Now we are left with a game that feels like it could have been great, but because of the player frustration of dealing with tons of issues that border on game breaking and a lack of transparency with the Devs, the player base seems like it is starting to flee.
When are investors going to learn? Since the game is technically "Beta" (yeah ok), why can't the devs be more transparent. We are not asking for them to constantly check in with us, we just want acknowledgements or verification in regards bugs or game design and whether the game is supposed to be this way.
I think for me, my biggest concern is feeling like the investors pushed this out so players would be lured into spending money at the cash shop without letting us know the game is almost unplayable.
I feel like i was duped...
At least with a monthly sub fee I could simply cancel. With the Zen shop I bought a lot of stuff and realize only too late that this game is frustrating to play beyond compare.
Cryptic has already earned millions from the people that wasted their money for mounts companions,gear and cosmetics. These people are casuals and most of them haven't even reached level 60 yet. The patch will come only when people stop buying shiiit from the zen store. This is simple economics. This will take long though because people that spent 200 dollars for things that can be earned in game in about 4 T2 runs are usually thick have a lot of money. So yea . They have nothing to learn.. Cryptic knows exactly what's going on. The ones that have to start learning are the players
Because release is late and they want their return. Probably over runs.. Raising more capital..just guessing. I'm having fun atm..I don't pvp or group (health issues).
FYI: most people who threw down the 2 C-notes did so with full knowledge that the game was being released OB. It's more of a 'help the devs, get a bunch of HAMSTER for doing it' kinda thing.
Games don't cost 200$, the founders paid that because the want the game to succeed.
You REALLY think this game is "almost unplayable"!? I respectfully disagree. I agree with your general premise, I just don't think it applies to this game as much as you do.
When you're doing statements like these you need:
1) To be level 60 for quite sometime and have experience about the end game mess in NW
2) To have played as a GWF and a GF
If you are on your leveling process i agree that the game is Awesome. If you are only playing foundry quests at 60 just to have some fun with the user created content then again the game is awesome. If you are at the end game with a group of friends and you're playing through the T2s legit then yes NW is awesome. If you're not doing anything of the above the game sucks. It has no end game (a bunch of broken dungeons-I did 20 runs and I'm fully geared). It has no class balance(where are the GWFs and the GFs?).It has no itemization. It has no pvp (pvp balance is a joke). Need i say more?:D
When you're doing statements like these you need:
1) To be level 60 for quite sometime and have experience about the end game mess in NW
2) To have played as a GWF and a GF
If you are on your leveling process i agree that the game is Awesome. If you are only playing foundry quests at 60 just to have some fun with the user created content then again the game is awesome. If you are at the end game with a group of friends and you're playing through the T2s legit then yes NW is awesome. If you're not doing anything of the above the game sucks. It has no end game (a bunch of broken dungeons-I did 20 runs and I'm fully geared). It has no class balance(where are the GWFs and the GFs?).It has no itemization. It has no pvp (pvp balance is a joke). Need i say more?:D
Show me supporting evidence of your claimed facts.
Mention of cash shop used to make me very angry. How dare a company put up things for sale!
But thinking on this some more, and over time. I realize a company must make a profit, if it does not in some way it will fail and company will go bankrupt which means no game for anyone. So don't expect a business to not make money, it's the sole purpose of a company. Although I will agree with some points on this forum, prices on those items are a bit high. And I just simply can not afford a 6 dollar respect or a 40dollar mount when that money is better used towards groceries.
Well making my idea simple... acording to several news the game was the be release (not beta but real release) in 2012, somwhere during that time they delayed it to official release in early 2013, seems what they opened was a open beta in early 2013 so... sounds a bit not as much as only an open Beta if the open beta stays like it for months after months without even a release date expectation.
Worst for me is that everything you buy during Beta... is mostly for Beta cause when game comes your zen spent... is spent EVEN if you spent it just to help give feedback and so on (kinda feels like using people's money to their benefit)
Well making my idea simple... acording to several news the game was the be release (not beta but real release) in 2012, somwhere during that time they delayed it to official release in early 2013, seems what they opened was a open beta in early 2013 so... sounds a bit not as much as only an open Beta if the open beta stays like it for months after months without even a release date expectation.
Worst for me is that everything you buy during Beta... is mostly for Beta cause when game comes your zen spent... is spent EVEN if you spent it just to help give feedback and so on (kinda feels like using people's money to their benefit)
Mentioned this in another thread just recently but, Zen spent can be returned since the record of buying zen is on the site and not the game files.
Publishers set release dates (PWE) and the developers (Cry) have to meet those deadlines. I agree that the NW could have waited another month or 2.
Almost correct. The publishers and developers set the deadlines and milestones together.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Honestly anyone who spent money on a founders pack, or 95% of whats for sale on the cash shop, just have large amounts of disposable income and don't care.
Nobody who is on a budget is spending money on this game. The prices are through the roof and you could buy something nice you would use every day for what it would cost to pimp out a single character. Something like a new flat screen, tablet, computer, or whatnot else you might like.
The people dropping hundreds of dollars on virtual items don't care about the money.
This is the first mmo that does action combat right.
They have the biggest fantasy ip.
The sad thing is,
if they did everything right like european servers, no bugs, a test server for endgame content etc..
This game had the potential for millions of players and would grow over time.
But it seems they rather settle for a few 100 000 that somethimes spend some cash.
It still has that potential but getting players back is harder then having them try something new.
0
turlamMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I have been saying it since day 1....
The day a Company starts receiving money from players and has no intention of reimbursing the players, makes that game Release!
I have 3 lvl 60s and a 4th coming up. This game revolves around 3 classes... Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue.... If you are not one of those, good luck getting into any solid standing groups, especially during DD.
There are way too many players out there that have no idea how to play their class, so it reflects on those of us who do. The game is unbalanced, its about stab boss, burn adds... The developers behind the boss fights have NO creativity at all. This game is **** simple, even Forest Gump could do Castle Never.
It is so sad to see so many players stand behind Cryptic/PWI in this game. I dont know if you are just ignorant or that easily entertained. Because the newness of this MMO has worn off.
Lets also not forget to mention the amount of this game that has been taken over by Bots and yet nothing is done about it.
This is the first mmo that does action combat right.
They have the biggest fantasy ip.
The sad thing is,
if they did everything right like european servers, no bugs, a test server for endgame content etc..
This game had the potential for millions of players and would grow over time.
But it seems they rather settle for a few 100 000 that somethimes spend some cash.
It still has that potential but getting players back is harder then having them try something new.
This is not the first MMO that does action combat right... Maybe outside of your little WoW circle it is, but you should probably consider broadening your MMO experience a bit.
Why are you frustrated? I don't feel frustrated, I'm having fun playing. There are some problems that will be worked out sooner or later, the game is totally playable, why is everyone so bent out of shape? Wait for them to finish the game, no one forced anyone to buy a **** penny worth of items, founder pack, mounts or content.
My advise to anyone throwing a childish fit like this guy: you could have waited to spend any money. Cryptic just put it out there.
The release date seems good to me; the GW2/D3/Pandora hype has died down and ESOL is still a way off. The game was also overdue for release, you don't want development to continue indefinitely. It certainly is unpolished in many ways, but its very playable- I just start an alt if I get bored, most mmos are pretty boring for me at level cap anyway.
Its not about fanboys or doomsayers. Its about understanding definitions and purpose. Neverwinter is incomplete. That is why it is called a beta. Raging about how incomplete when it is a Free Beta is like someone complaining that a house under construction has no windows. Of course it doesn't...its not finished yet. As for releasing the game before it is finished, that is the point of a beta. And yes, the beta title is important.
This is a definition of beta-testing obtained from Carlos Delano Buskey "A Software Metrics Based Approach to Enterprise Software
Beta Testing Design" (School of Computer Science & Information Systems,Pace University 2005)P2
A test of software that is still under development accomplished by having peopleactually using the software. In a beta test, a software product is sent to selected potential customers and influential end users (known as beta sites), who test its
functionality and report any operational or utilization errors (bugs) found. The beta test is usually one of the last steps a software developer takes before releasing the product to market; however, if the beta sites indicate that the software has operational difficulties or an extraordinary number of bugs, the developer may conduct more beta tests before the software is released to
customers.
"Although, software manufacturers recognize beta testing as a formal and important element of software testing, and most industry dictionaries and glossaries provide formal definitions for beta testing, there are no existing standards or models for this form of software testing"
Beta testing is simple in the end. Assess but don't exploit functionality. Report errors. That can better be accomplished if many people are engaged in the task. I just love the way people like the thread initiator complain about the incomplete nature of a free beta. Lols.
The beta test is usually one of the last steps a software developer takes before releasing the product to market; however, if the beta sites indicate that the software has operational difficulties or an extraordinary number of bugs, the developer may conduct more beta tests before the software is released to
customers.
As the software has been released to customers (people are paying for aspects of the service and so are, by definition, customers) your quote would seem to indicate that NW is not in beta.
Note that I am not claiming here that NW is not in beta, but the individual you quoted seems to believe that it is not.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
0
draconerus1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited June 2013
I got a refund on my original $200 purchase, and got the $59.99 purchase instead. Will probably keep it so if this game ever does get fixed I can come back to it with the perks still there.
Comments
Investors... invest money in the projects.
I wouldn't mind spending the money, but I will wait until the game is out of the beta stage to see if I like the direction it is moving in at that time.
But Neverwinter being free to play is a whole another story, they can releasy early, call it open beta and continue working on it, its not like you HAVE to pay subscription or buy the game to play it. Only founders have some right to complain, but then again, they didn't bought the game, they gave money to support development and got some exclusive bonuses for them.
Also, this again being a F2P game, what stops you from simply taking a break and checking back in some time to see the changes? It not like it will cost you anything.
Seriously, if you put $200 into a game in beta, and then you find yourself regretting it....please say wetawded.
Cryptic has already earned millions from the people that wasted their money for mounts companions,gear and cosmetics. These people are casuals and most of them haven't even reached level 60 yet. The patch will come only when people stop buying shiiit from the zen store. This is simple economics. This will take long though because people that spent 200 dollars for things that can be earned in game in about 4 T2 runs are usually thick have a lot of money. So yea . They have nothing to learn.. Cryptic knows exactly what's going on. The ones that have to start learning are the players
Games don't cost 200$, the founders paid that because the want the game to succeed.
When you're doing statements like these you need:
1) To be level 60 for quite sometime and have experience about the end game mess in NW
2) To have played as a GWF and a GF
If you are on your leveling process i agree that the game is Awesome. If you are only playing foundry quests at 60 just to have some fun with the user created content then again the game is awesome. If you are at the end game with a group of friends and you're playing through the T2s legit then yes NW is awesome. If you're not doing anything of the above the game sucks. It has no end game (a bunch of broken dungeons-I did 20 runs and I'm fully geared). It has no class balance(where are the GWFs and the GFs?).It has no itemization. It has no pvp (pvp balance is a joke). Need i say more?:D
Show me supporting evidence of your claimed facts.
But thinking on this some more, and over time. I realize a company must make a profit, if it does not in some way it will fail and company will go bankrupt which means no game for anyone. So don't expect a business to not make money, it's the sole purpose of a company. Although I will agree with some points on this forum, prices on those items are a bit high. And I just simply can not afford a 6 dollar respect or a 40dollar mount when that money is better used towards groceries.
Worst for me is that everything you buy during Beta... is mostly for Beta cause when game comes your zen spent... is spent EVEN if you spent it just to help give feedback and so on (kinda feels like using people's money to their benefit)
Mentioned this in another thread just recently but, Zen spent can be returned since the record of buying zen is on the site and not the game files.
PS this isn't NWN, this is just NW or DD:NW or D&D:NW.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
Almost correct. The publishers and developers set the deadlines and milestones together.
Nobody who is on a budget is spending money on this game. The prices are through the roof and you could buy something nice you would use every day for what it would cost to pimp out a single character. Something like a new flat screen, tablet, computer, or whatnot else you might like.
The people dropping hundreds of dollars on virtual items don't care about the money.
They have the biggest fantasy ip.
The sad thing is,
if they did everything right like european servers, no bugs, a test server for endgame content etc..
This game had the potential for millions of players and would grow over time.
But it seems they rather settle for a few 100 000 that somethimes spend some cash.
It still has that potential but getting players back is harder then having them try something new.
The day a Company starts receiving money from players and has no intention of reimbursing the players, makes that game Release!
I have 3 lvl 60s and a 4th coming up. This game revolves around 3 classes... Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue.... If you are not one of those, good luck getting into any solid standing groups, especially during DD.
There are way too many players out there that have no idea how to play their class, so it reflects on those of us who do. The game is unbalanced, its about stab boss, burn adds... The developers behind the boss fights have NO creativity at all. This game is **** simple, even Forest Gump could do Castle Never.
It is so sad to see so many players stand behind Cryptic/PWI in this game. I dont know if you are just ignorant or that easily entertained. Because the newness of this MMO has worn off.
Lets also not forget to mention the amount of this game that has been taken over by Bots and yet nothing is done about it.
On subject you would think that by now this company would have learned to read all the dayum bug and exploit reports from betas....
Would be nice to be able to log in and not have to wonder if you are wasting your precious time and money.....
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
This is not the first MMO that does action combat right... Maybe outside of your little WoW circle it is, but you should probably consider broadening your MMO experience a bit.
My advise to anyone throwing a childish fit like this guy: you could have waited to spend any money. Cryptic just put it out there.
This is a definition of beta-testing obtained from Carlos Delano Buskey "A Software Metrics Based Approach to Enterprise Software
Beta Testing Design" (School of Computer Science & Information Systems,Pace University 2005)P2
A test of software that is still under development accomplished by having peopleactually using the software. In a beta test, a software product is sent to selected potential customers and influential end users (known as beta sites), who test its
functionality and report any operational or utilization errors (bugs) found. The beta test is usually one of the last steps a software developer takes before releasing the product to market; however, if the beta sites indicate that the software has operational difficulties or an extraordinary number of bugs, the developer may conduct more beta tests before the software is released to
customers.
"Although, software manufacturers recognize beta testing as a formal and important element of software testing, and most industry dictionaries and glossaries provide formal definitions for beta testing, there are no existing standards or models for this form of software testing"
Beta testing is simple in the end. Assess but don't exploit functionality. Report errors. That can better be accomplished if many people are engaged in the task. I just love the way people like the thread initiator complain about the incomplete nature of a free beta. Lols.
As the software has been released to customers (people are paying for aspects of the service and so are, by definition, customers) your quote would seem to indicate that NW is not in beta.
Note that I am not claiming here that NW is not in beta, but the individual you quoted seems to believe that it is not.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.