Saying Forgotten Realms is not DnD because it's just a campaign setting
FR is only one of many campaigg setting. Perhaps for you new players of D&D, born with the bad 4th edition, FR can be D&D, but for who played D&D starting from 1st ed, AD&D (THAC0 what you made me remember...), 25th anniversary, 3.0, 3.5....
Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, Ravenloft, Eberron...
D&D is just a set of rules. FR is only a campaign setting (IMHO, one of the most boring)
The fail edition of D&D? Never played, I read a bit of manuals of it but really that is simply the worst D&D ever made.
FR is only one of many campaigg setting. Perhaps for you new players of D&D, born with the bad 4th edition, FR can be D&D, but for who played D&D starting from 1st ed, AD&D (THAC0 what you made me remember...), 25th anniversary, 3.0, 3.5....
Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, Ravenloft, Eberron...
D&D is just a set of rules. FR is only a campaign setting (IMHO, one of the most boring)
Calling it a fail edition of DnD does not make it not DnD. Calling it a campaign does not make it not DnD regardless boring or not boring. As i mentioned in my example, it's like you are saying a Nissan 350Z Fair Lady, is not Japanese, just because it's merely a car made and design by Japanese people in Japan.
DnD is just a set of rules??? You are kidding right?? You do realise DnD is an umbrella name given to a set of role playing campaigns you listed? The assigned rulebooks for each edition are the actual rule, NOT DnD as a whole.
Hence I repeat what I said calling Forgotten Realms not DnD because it's just a campaign setting is like saying a Nissan 350Z Fair Lady is not Japanese because it's just a car made and designed by Japanese in Japan.
Neverwinter Online is an online game based on events and environments within the world of DnD. It is therefore DnD.
Calling it a fail edition of DnD does not make it not DnD. Calling it a campaign does not make it not DnD regardless boring or not boring. As i mentioned in my example, it's like you are saying a Nissan 350Z Fair Lady, is not Japanese, just because it's merely a car made and design by Japanese people in Japan.
DnD is just a set of rules??? You are kidding right?? You do realise DnD is an umbrella name given to a set of role playing campaigns you listed? The assigned rulebooks for each edition are the actual rule, NOT DnD as a whole.
Hence I repeat what I said calling Forgotten Realms not DnD because it's just a campaign setting is like saying a Nissan 350Z Fair Lady is not Japanese because it's just a car made and designed by Japanese in Japan.
Neverwinter Online is an online game based on events and environments within the world of DnD. It is therefore DnD.
Don't argue with him. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Yeah, in the early 1980s, D&D was mostly attributed to a set of rules. However, D&D is a brand name (as has been for two decades), and it encompasses Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, and the other settings that have become part of its core recognition.
I design and publish RPGs for a living, had worked at WoTC at one point, and freelanced with TSR years before the buy-out. D&D is a brand, and Forgotten Realms is D&D.
0
skullbasher01Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wish the WoW kiddies would stop calling everything a WoW clone. If anything WoW copied from other games when it first came out.
From my understanding, ALL games of this genre (RPG that is) are based off of the DnD model. Pen and paper coming to life in binary code. WoW is heavily inspired from the concept. However, WoW pretty much perfected (then subsequently broke) the MMO model.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Short Code Copy/Paste: NW-DJC4R9H3R
Forgotten Realms is D&D, ok, but FR is a campaign setting. The core D&D give only rules on how to play in various campaign setting. I just wanted to say that FR is not D&D in its wholeness, FR is only a piece of D&D, because D&D can be a lot of campaign settings. So saying "FR is D&D" is correct, ok, but FR is not the whole D&D, FR is only one of many settings that exist under the D&D term. And, how I said, the most classical fantasy. There are settings a lot more interesting but because people like things so classical and canonical (and boring IMHO), FR can be one of the most known (and the books of Salvatore with Drizzt have a big guilt in this) and most people think D&D = FR.
Perhaps in the latest years (after 3.0 / 3.5) D&D has become so bad that now there are a lot less campaign settings than before (just how I said, in the old times of the great D&D there were A LOT of campaign settings, now I don't know, I don't play the new versions of D&D beucase they are lesss funny), I must admit after 3.0 / 3.5 FOR ME D&D is dead (unless WotC will start to think back about creating a funny tabletop RPG and not a set of rules based on a videogame in a tabletop RPG, that is D&D 4.0). So if lately D&D has having less players and less expansions / settings, well, it's because it's no more the good D&D of the '80s / '90s
Just think about.
The first MMORPGs took ideas from tabletop RPGS, specifically D&D. So equip based, classes, trinity, with Everquest, WoW, and so on taking this ideas to the limit of being very fixed and restricting (in tabletop these rules were not so limiting). Then, D&D 4.0 took back the limiting ideas from the MMOs ans videogames, creating a mix of tabletop and videogame. Then Neverwinter take the ideas creating D&D 4.0 creating a MMORPG just like the ones to which D&D 4.0 was influenced and based.
0
awwyissmfbcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This game is *nothing* like a Wow clone, lmao. Yes its bad but its not a Wow clone. Not even close. COMPLETELY different combat... its not target lock, button mash by any means. And there is this little thing called.... FOUNDRY. The ability for users to create content is not a feature of Wow.
No target lock? WAT. Yes there is. Don't get me wrong, love the combat style in this game. It does however autolock onto targets when you reticle over them and use an ability. Definitely not full action combat as they claim.
Forgotten Realms is D&D, ok, but FR is a campaign setting. The core D&D give only rules on how to play in various campaign setting. I just wanted to say that FR is not D&D in its wholeness, FR is only a piece of D&D, because D&D can be a lot of campaign settings. So saying "FR is D&D" is correct, ok, but FR is not the whole D&D, FR is only one of many settings that exist under the D&D term. And, how I said, the most classical fantasy. There are settings a lot more interesting but because people like things so classical and canonical (and boring IMHO), FR can be one of the most known (and the books of Salvatore with Drizzt have a big guilt in this) and most people think D&D = FR.
Perhaps in the latest years (after 3.0 / 3.5) D&D has become so bad that now there are a lot less campaign settings than before (just how I said, in the old times of the great D&D there were A LOT of campaign settings, now I don't know, I don't play the new versions of D&D beucase they are lesss funny), I must admit after 3.0 / 3.5 FOR ME D&D is dead (unless WotC will start to think back about creating a funny tabletop RPG and not a set of rules based on a videogame in a tabletop RPG, that is D&D 4.0). So if lately D&D has having less players and less expansions / settings, well, it's because it's no more the good D&D of the '80s / '90s
Just think about.
The first MMORPGs took ideas from tabletop RPGS, specifically D&D. So equip based, classes, trinity, with Everquest, WoW, and so on taking this ideas to the limit of being very fixed and restricting (in tabletop these rules were not so limiting). Then, D&D 4.0 took back the limiting ideas from the MMOs ans videogames, creating a mix of tabletop and videogame. Then Neverwinter take the ideas creating D&D 4.0 creating a MMORPG just like the ones to which D&D 4.0 was influenced and based.
FR being a part of DnD simply means FR is not the entirety of DnD but DnD IS the entirety of FR, because of that FR IS DnD. Understand?? Or perhaps you need some time to try comprehend it.
Whether a campaign is great or not, it's relative to a player, your opinion does not mean the world think the same way as I do know alot of DnD 4th Edition lovers. Having lesser players does not equate to DnD not being good. It could simply mean that there are more varieties to choose from, in addition to the fact most kids of today relate better to Digital/Virtual versions of DnD which can be found in MMOG.
True the first MMOGs were influenced by DnD which gave rise to MUD and eventually the graphical version we play today.4e was not limiting in terms of rules. They merely revise some rules, remove and add new ones. 4e is actually very light in non-combat rules as 4e assume players to adhere to the roleplay rules in 3e, a good example of rules not found in 4e would be crafting rules and npc rules. 4e is much more battlefield oriented and it introduced or rather re-introduced the concept of roles, for instance, healer defender striker and controller, which most players in NWO whined about because they simply cannot get used to the idea that some classes are for certain roles hence trying to make them otherwise weaken that class. The list goes on. I'm waiting for 5e though...
DnD did not take back any ideas from MMOGs but rather the ideas were theirs to begin with. MMOGs seemed limited because there is only so much you can do via virtual programming. Lately however MMOGs are slowly releasing their "limitations" of gameplay partly due to technological advancements and etc. Since NW is part of DnD, how does therefore NW be a clone of WoW taking ideas from WoW when WoW took ideas from DnD??? It really doesn't hurt to think you know, rather then being all so "WoW is god and god is WoW, WoW is the Alpha and Omega of MMO"....
teepussiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Didnt read more than topic, so can only comment far from WoW clone. OP could learn something about generalising cause you seem to be painting with wall of China size brush atm.
Didnt read more than topic, so can only comment far from WoW clone. OP could learn something about generalising cause you seem to be painting with wall of China size brush atm.
Yup he is kinda painting mmorpgs with a wall of china size brush... darn that's kinda huge lol... Although I'm surprise this thread survived for so long. Still wondering when will it disappear to the lower depth
grayvenrayneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
There are a lot of perfectly valid criticisms of this game, but "WoW clone" is not one of them. The moment someone says that non-ironically, the forum software should change their text color into the background color, immediately and permanently.
You can say that NWO is not a Everquest-WoW-Rift-SW:TOR clone, I'll say it is, because you do the same exact things you do in that games: grind instances/raid for T1 gear, only to grind other instaces to get T2 gear and so on, you have classes with fixed roles, you have low customization in how build the class (the passive tree is just like the passive talent tree in other games I named), equipment play a great part in the power of your character, not the player skill. There are theme parks without these old mechanics (GW2 for example, TSW has a classless system, Defiance is a MMOTPS with no class, no fixed roles and no grind for equipment, and so on), there is NOTHING bad in being a classical theme park just like Everquest-WoW-Rift-SW:TOR, if someone is searching for a classical theme park.
You can say that NWO is not a Everquest-WoW-Rift-SW:TOR clone, I'll say it is, because you do the same exact things you do in that games: grind instances/raid for T1 gear, only to grind other instaces to get T2 gear and so on, you have classes with fixed roles
This is a very simplistic view, though. Using that way to categorize games, then every ...
.... shooter is a clone of Wolfenstein, because in each of them you walk around with a gun and shoot stuff, pick up ammo, kill more stuff, and then kill the end boss.
... racing game is a clone of whatever the first racing game was, because in each of them you drive a vehicle and try to be faster than your best time or the other drivers, NPCs or real.
... RTS is a clone of Dune, because in all (most) of them you move around units, give them target locations, produce and collect resources and dominate the opponent(s).
... adventure is a clone of Adventure, because in all of them you walk around and do stuff, solve puzzles, talk to NPCs and follow the storyline until you eventually reach the end of it.
... roleplaying game is a clone of Dungeon (ironically a DnD-inspired game on mainframes in the 1970s) because in all of them you play as a character (or a group of characters) that is usually of a specific class and you kill mobs, loot stuff, put gear into inventory and paperdoll slots, use skills and eventually beat whatever end boss the game has.
... platform game is a clone of Space Panic, because in every platform game you control a character that jumps and runs around, usually dodging mobs and collecting coins or other stuff, in an attempt to complete a level and progress to the next stage, often also trying to maximize the score.
You know, we could just invent a new word here so we don't have to remember which game a title is a clone of. Inventing new words is fun! My suggestion would be, "genre".
You know, we could just invent a new word here so we don't have to remember which game a title is a clone of. Inventing new words is fun! My suggestion would be, "genre".
As you like, you can invent every new word you like. I'll stick with the word that is using the rest of the world: WoW-clone (and again, not because WoW has invented the gear-farm, holy trinity, equip based MMOs, but only because it's the most famous)
0
groomaar69Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Ok I have heard enough of the "Its a WOW clone" are you all 12 or something? WoW wasn't the first MMo, and yes every MMO is kinda the same, just like every Racing game is kinda the same, like every Shooter is kinda the same. It at it's core is Online, Multiplayer, With PVP. Oh, when you have an online game you end up with the nessessity for Guilds ie(social groups). As for crafting yes D&D has crafting. Have you heard of the Artificer class? Do any of you even play table top D&D? I do every sunday for 15yrs. from AD&D to D&D playtest. I played 3.5, Pathfinder, 4. and many other D20 system games, and sorry crafting, Guilds (ever hear of the Harpers or Moonstars), cheesy monsters (Um.. Cloaker anyone?) are all at the Core of Dungeons and Dragons. So to everyone talking about how Neverwinter is a WoW clone. Please, shut up. And to refute your argument that i'm only saying this because i never played any other MMOs or WoW. I was the #1 paladin tank, not on my server or in the US but world wide for 6 weeks during WotLK, and for another 3 months in Cata. Furthermore if it were possible to perhaps post a bug report in neverwinter then some of you QQ whining about **** that don't work would get resolved. so rather than come to the forums and whine about how aweful neverwinter is. why don't you send an email to support, skip the forums, and play a different game. there are tons of great free games on the internet, and the greatest part of them is, that when you are playing them, I'll be playing Neverwinter helping to make it better, and I won't have to listen to your crying any longer.
0
groomaar69Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
This game worked better at launch of Open Beta than WOW does after 145 Billion USD in profit over 8 years of work. Ever notice how Forza and Need 4 Speed both have: Cars, Tracks, Upgrades, Stables (Guilds), and Farming. Notice how Call of Duty 3, and Black-Ops both have Single player mode, Multiplayer Mode, Guns, Kill streaks, Grenades, Guilds (Orders some cases), and similar small maps? Amazing games within Genres are Similar! holy-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, you mean Neverwinter is NOT a WoW clone but is in the same Genre, MMO? so they both have similar aspects. hmmmmm...... ok show of hands how many of you have posted the same QQ <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on Conan, Rift, or any other MMO since WoW? You’re just showing the world you ignorance, one MMO website at a time.
Wish the WoW kiddies would stop calling everything a WoW clone. If anything WoW copied from other games when it first came out.
It did, it copied alot from Everquest, and just refined it and made it better. Nothing wrong with that, Ford invented the first automobile, Ferrari, Porsche, Toyota, etc all made it better. I think the OP is used to "WoW Clone" being an insult, but didn't actually consider what that means or in anyway prove it, just topped a complaint thread with it.
Comments
FR is only one of many campaigg setting. Perhaps for you new players of D&D, born with the bad 4th edition, FR can be D&D, but for who played D&D starting from 1st ed, AD&D (THAC0 what you made me remember...), 25th anniversary, 3.0, 3.5....
Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, Ravenloft, Eberron...
D&D is just a set of rules. FR is only a campaign setting (IMHO, one of the most boring)
Calling it a fail edition of DnD does not make it not DnD. Calling it a campaign does not make it not DnD regardless boring or not boring. As i mentioned in my example, it's like you are saying a Nissan 350Z Fair Lady, is not Japanese, just because it's merely a car made and design by Japanese people in Japan.
DnD is just a set of rules??? You are kidding right?? You do realise DnD is an umbrella name given to a set of role playing campaigns you listed? The assigned rulebooks for each edition are the actual rule, NOT DnD as a whole.
Hence I repeat what I said calling Forgotten Realms not DnD because it's just a campaign setting is like saying a Nissan 350Z Fair Lady is not Japanese because it's just a car made and designed by Japanese in Japan.
Neverwinter Online is an online game based on events and environments within the world of DnD. It is therefore DnD.
Don't argue with him. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Yeah, in the early 1980s, D&D was mostly attributed to a set of rules. However, D&D is a brand name (as has been for two decades), and it encompasses Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, and the other settings that have become part of its core recognition.
I design and publish RPGs for a living, had worked at WoTC at one point, and freelanced with TSR years before the buy-out. D&D is a brand, and Forgotten Realms is D&D.
No it wasnt Everquest was
From my understanding, ALL games of this genre (RPG that is) are based off of the DnD model. Pen and paper coming to life in binary code. WoW is heavily inspired from the concept. However, WoW pretty much perfected (then subsequently broke) the MMO model.
Short Code Copy/Paste: NW-DJC4R9H3R
Perhaps in the latest years (after 3.0 / 3.5) D&D has become so bad that now there are a lot less campaign settings than before (just how I said, in the old times of the great D&D there were A LOT of campaign settings, now I don't know, I don't play the new versions of D&D beucase they are lesss funny), I must admit after 3.0 / 3.5 FOR ME D&D is dead (unless WotC will start to think back about creating a funny tabletop RPG and not a set of rules based on a videogame in a tabletop RPG, that is D&D 4.0). So if lately D&D has having less players and less expansions / settings, well, it's because it's no more the good D&D of the '80s / '90s
Just think about.
The first MMORPGs took ideas from tabletop RPGS, specifically D&D. So equip based, classes, trinity, with Everquest, WoW, and so on taking this ideas to the limit of being very fixed and restricting (in tabletop these rules were not so limiting). Then, D&D 4.0 took back the limiting ideas from the MMOs ans videogames, creating a mix of tabletop and videogame. Then Neverwinter take the ideas creating D&D 4.0 creating a MMORPG just like the ones to which D&D 4.0 was influenced and based.
No target lock? WAT. Yes there is. Don't get me wrong, love the combat style in this game. It does however autolock onto targets when you reticle over them and use an ability. Definitely not full action combat as they claim.
FR being a part of DnD simply means FR is not the entirety of DnD but DnD IS the entirety of FR, because of that FR IS DnD. Understand?? Or perhaps you need some time to try comprehend it.
Whether a campaign is great or not, it's relative to a player, your opinion does not mean the world think the same way as I do know alot of DnD 4th Edition lovers. Having lesser players does not equate to DnD not being good. It could simply mean that there are more varieties to choose from, in addition to the fact most kids of today relate better to Digital/Virtual versions of DnD which can be found in MMOG.
True the first MMOGs were influenced by DnD which gave rise to MUD and eventually the graphical version we play today.4e was not limiting in terms of rules. They merely revise some rules, remove and add new ones. 4e is actually very light in non-combat rules as 4e assume players to adhere to the roleplay rules in 3e, a good example of rules not found in 4e would be crafting rules and npc rules. 4e is much more battlefield oriented and it introduced or rather re-introduced the concept of roles, for instance, healer defender striker and controller, which most players in NWO whined about because they simply cannot get used to the idea that some classes are for certain roles hence trying to make them otherwise weaken that class. The list goes on. I'm waiting for 5e though...
DnD did not take back any ideas from MMOGs but rather the ideas were theirs to begin with. MMOGs seemed limited because there is only so much you can do via virtual programming. Lately however MMOGs are slowly releasing their "limitations" of gameplay partly due to technological advancements and etc. Since NW is part of DnD, how does therefore NW be a clone of WoW taking ideas from WoW when WoW took ideas from DnD??? It really doesn't hurt to think you know, rather then being all so "WoW is god and god is WoW, WoW is the Alpha and Omega of MMO"....
Yup he is kinda painting mmorpgs with a wall of china size brush... darn that's kinda huge lol... Although I'm surprise this thread survived for so long. Still wondering when will it disappear to the lower depth
PC specs: http://forum.daow.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4#p99
This is a very simplistic view, though. Using that way to categorize games, then every ...
.... shooter is a clone of Wolfenstein, because in each of them you walk around with a gun and shoot stuff, pick up ammo, kill more stuff, and then kill the end boss.
... racing game is a clone of whatever the first racing game was, because in each of them you drive a vehicle and try to be faster than your best time or the other drivers, NPCs or real.
... RTS is a clone of Dune, because in all (most) of them you move around units, give them target locations, produce and collect resources and dominate the opponent(s).
... adventure is a clone of Adventure, because in all of them you walk around and do stuff, solve puzzles, talk to NPCs and follow the storyline until you eventually reach the end of it.
... roleplaying game is a clone of Dungeon (ironically a DnD-inspired game on mainframes in the 1970s) because in all of them you play as a character (or a group of characters) that is usually of a specific class and you kill mobs, loot stuff, put gear into inventory and paperdoll slots, use skills and eventually beat whatever end boss the game has.
... platform game is a clone of Space Panic, because in every platform game you control a character that jumps and runs around, usually dodging mobs and collecting coins or other stuff, in an attempt to complete a level and progress to the next stage, often also trying to maximize the score.
You know, we could just invent a new word here so we don't have to remember which game a title is a clone of. Inventing new words is fun! My suggestion would be, "genre".
As you like, you can invent every new word you like. I'll stick with the word that is using the rest of the world: WoW-clone (and again, not because WoW has invented the gear-farm, holy trinity, equip based MMOs, but only because it's the most famous)
It did, it copied alot from Everquest, and just refined it and made it better. Nothing wrong with that, Ford invented the first automobile, Ferrari, Porsche, Toyota, etc all made it better. I think the OP is used to "WoW Clone" being an insult, but didn't actually consider what that means or in anyway prove it, just topped a complaint thread with it.